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So the wife and I are thinking of purchasing a resin 3d printer.For myself,I'll be printing minis and terrain for 40k and LI(including titans),while the mrs fancies some gothic figurines.While I am researching possibilities,was wondering if there were any recommendations for the current crop of printers.Preferably something that works straight out the box,preferably enclosed with a print size of say 200mm square,with maybe some extra height.Budget will be around £400.Upgrades could be useful further down the line,but not essential.I do have some experience with 3d software(solidworks,alphacam),but not sure if that matters when it comes to the slicer software.Any and all comments are welcome regarding any advice regarding this part of the hobby.Thanks
Sorry fodlr the long post

So I'm going to ask are you looking at liquid resin or FDM


Models and gothic things sounds like you want resin not FDM - you can print models on FDM but you won't get the resolution that you can out of liquid resin printers.

For reference everything below this relates to liquid resin printers

2) "Works out of the box" not a thing. You will need to balance the buildplate*; calibrate the exposure and settings and endure the "OMG why won't you just print something" and "work darn you" plague of learning the ins and outs of printers and their quirks.

Don't let this talk you out of it, but go in expecting it to be a hobby of its own. They are not "plug and play" levels of simple to use. If you can put in the time to learn they are utterly fantastic

3) Space - do you have a spare room/garage/shed/loft/outbuilding or other space that you can basically isolate as the printing room. Resin printers let off dangerous organic particles from the resin, especially when printing and curing and the printers are NOT air sealed.
If you don't have such a space I'd forgo a printer at this stage. You can build an air tight enclosure and vent air outside with a fan on that enclosure - but that's all going to take the cost up and likely beyond your current budget.

4) Be aware that you'll need £100 or so for accessories to get started. Gloves, facemask, resin, paper towels, a curing setup (UV lightsource); containers for washing (plastic pickle jars) etc... Now a lot of these will be one time purchases as you get started; a few will be a running cost thing and a few you can last for ages on if you buy a bulk discount load (eg you can buy a load of blue paper towels pretty cheaply so they last for ages)



* a few are now getting auto balancers, but I don't think any in your price range

Was hoping for works out the box(mainly for the mrs)but was expecting to putting some effort into setting the printer up.I was already aware of the hazardous aspect of this hobby,and have taken this into account,plus the wife has worked with liquid resin previously(not sure same stuff though).A lot of the non printer related stuff we already have,so that's not really an issue for us.That given,what would be a recommendation for our budget(or a bit over it?😁😁😁😁😁😁)

duanimal wrote:
Was hoping for works out the box(mainly for the mrs)but was expecting to putting some effort into setting the printer up.I was already aware of the hazardous aspect of this hobby,and have taken this into account,plus the wife has worked with liquid resin previously(not sure same stuff though).A lot of the non printer related stuff we already have,so that's not really an issue for us.That given,what would be a recommendation for our budget(or a bit over it?😁😁😁😁😁😁)

That's good

Right now I'd say if you are prepared to wait a little then a Saturn 4 would be an ideal choice to fit your budget - either the regular or the Ultra (ultra has a few new features). It's their latest printer and has some interesting features and in general Elegoo are good with after-market support and make good printers. The alternative would be a Saturn 3, though any of the 8K resolutoin printers have an issue that the screens are no longer made for them, though Elegoo seem to have a good backlog of supplies, but if I did get an 8K I'd be tempted to pick up a screen before I needed it as the supply is a limited thing and screens will eventually burn out.


In general you want a 9-10 inch buildplate. That's basically the most practical all round size and compromise between print volume and resolution, esp with the 8K and higher resolution screens on the market now.
You can get smaller 6inch screens (such as the Mars series or the Phrozen mini series); but whilst they can have great resolutoin, they can be a little limiting. Most creators do presupport and cut models for Mars series printers, but terrain, tanks, dragons and other larger models could take 1 or 2 print sessions in a Saturn (or similar sized printer); whilst on a mars you could be looking at 4,5,6 prints - sometimes even more if the parts are very large or long.


Of course smaller printers can be much easier to learn on in terms of wasting less resin on a fail (potentially)

I started with a Phrozen mini 4K and then stepped up to an Anycubic M3 Premium and the M3 is just awesome for its buildplate size (another 9-10inch buildplate).

Would it be worth getting a cheap 2nd hand printer to get a feel for this,or hang on till saturns release(do like the features of the ultra)?recommendation for that?How easy is it to generate supports for designs that don't have them or creating designs from scratch?any other suggestions from others out there?

duanimal wrote:
Would it be worth getting a cheap 2nd hand printer to get a feel for this,or hang on till saturns release(do like the features of the ultra)?recommendation for that?How easy is it to generate supports for designs that don't have them or creating designs from scratch?any other suggestions from others out there?

So a 2nd hand printer has the issue that its screen might be close to death. Screens burn out and are an expensive replacement part, esp with how aggressive some prices have become in terms of new machines. So I'd always go for new unless someone offers you a free printer.

The Saturn 4 is out, its just in low-stock mode because its very popular.

Presupporting is an art unto itself. There are some theories and rules you can use for that (often its a case of lesser of two evils when making choices). There are automatic supports in most slicer software, but they can be a bit haphazard and will never generate anything as good as manual ones. That said many models today come with presupports - quality can vary though anything supported by Atlas3DSS will be good

Appreciate you taking your time out to answer these questions.Would there be a resin to recommend?I think I'm sold on the saturn 4 ultra.looks a nice machine.Bit worried on the chitubox front though,hearing it's a bit clunky to use,but I'll download it and have a play.Thanks again

A lot of printers run with Chitubox motherboards and thus Chitubox slicer.

However many also work with 3rd party slicers and I'd highly recommend using Lychee. It's not only somewhat better put together in terms of giving you a wide variety of supporting tools, but its also the software that many presupports are created in.

Thus you'll come across .lys files when getting many models. These are lychee support files that contain the model and the supports as separate entities and thus allows you to edit the supports within lychee.

Chitubox have a similar system with their .project files - though of course those only work in Chitubox and as its less used they are much less common.

The other kind of support file you'll get are presupported STL; where the supports done in slicing software are exported as a single STL with the model. This makes them all one entity so they can't be edited, but it also means they will work with any slicer (because its all just STL data like a regular model).


Lychee link https://mango3d.io


If you just want to open files and slice then the free Lychee is great at that. If you want more control for presupporting and such then the pro is affordable and well worth getting





As for a resin that's a tricky one as prices, your standard and more come into play. Personally I'm a big fan of Phrozen Aqua 8K Grey resin. It prints really well, holds good detail and is decently durable (its still fragile of course).

Vulcan Resin by Atlas 3DSS is also a great model printing resin, but its trickier to get hold of in the UK at present (simply a case of distribution not being fully setup for it).


I would say avoid water washable resins. They are more difficult to print with and have a much higher instance of tearing when printing hollowed models.
The water washing is also not as big a boon as it sounds like because the water is contaminated so has to be evaporated off (and any residue left in UV light to be cured). So that takes a LOT longer than with IPA when you need to dispose of it (same process, IPA just readily evaporates way faster)

Edit - also ignore the whole 4K, 8K on resins. It's 100% a marketing term to encourage sales as resolutions of printers got higher. It has no pairing to the resolution of a printer screen at all. So you can use 4K or 8K resins on any printer. Most of the 8K resins ARE better than their 4K versions in general; so they are improved products; but you can happily use 8K on any resolution of printer

Seeing as the saturn 4 seems to be the(only)recommendation I'm getting for a printer(not your fault rest of community doesn't want to engage,overread,no slight intended),im gonna go for the ultra.Now,I'm looking what accessories I need with it.I was thinking of adding the mini heater elegoo do for the saturn,but it looks like I won't be able to hook up an extraction system with heater installed.Assuming I'm sensible with where I'm printing,will the heater be necessary,or would it be better to add extraction instead?

So extraction systems depend on where the printer is setup. If its in the house its a big benefit; outside in a garage on its own its less of an issue so long as its just the printer.

Just remember extraction isn't about smell its about organic particles that you can't smell. The smell is a boon to lose, but you should be entering the print environment wearing a mask fitted for filtering organic particles.

Also I'd rate health above heating. Heating helps the printer print and is non-essential for your life; health is essential for your life even if it won't help the printer print.

As for accessories:
Silicon Spatula / Silicon brush - for mixing the resin in the VAT before starting a print. Essential and soft so they won't hurt the FEP.

Plastic Pickle Jars - even if you get a wash and cure, these are great to have for putting IPA in to rinse parts with.
If you don't have a wash and cure get some biggre pickle jars as the Saturn is pretty large so you can get chunky parts off it.

Wash and cure machine - not essential but a nice thing to have; instead of your own UV lamp and box with tin foil inside as a curing chamber.
Wash and cures help and they make those steps simpler/easier/ more automated but they aren't an essential.

Spare hobby tools - clippers and a scalpel. These are your "resin" tools for tricky supports from time to time. Thye stay with the printer gear cause they'll get "resin sticky" pretty fast so its easier to have dedicated tools.
If possible get clippers with the smallest head you can get, resin supports are typically not strong for clippers to deal with, but they can get into some tight spots.

Blue paper towels- for basically everything barring wiping down the FEP. Cheap, and good to get in some bulk for a discount and use as you need them

Silicon dogmat - 2 of them. One goes under the printer one is your worksurface. They will capture light spills; wipedown easily and generally protect your working surfaces. Well worth getting and as dogmats they are affordable.

Heater - read this article I wrote first. You can find a link here, also a good one on health and safety: https://warminiatures.wordpress.com/3d-printing-articles-and-resources/


Note I don't know if the new heaters being put out by printer makers are proportional setups or not. As I've got a working setup I've not looked into it in a big way and the manufacturers don't make much noise about it either.

Spare FEP - your FEP will wear out so have a spare before you need it. FEP 2.0 and nFEP are popular (both the same thing just different brand names).

Microfibre floor cloths (cheap). Basically for anything that you wipe down like the FEP - delicate parts basically.

White Lithium Grease - because the long screwrod in the printer (the Z Rod) needs greasing as part of semi-regular maintenance. Grease is easily applied and less messy than a spray; and it will last longer too. There are a LOT of greases on the market, White Lithium is often recommended, but if you've got others that will work then go for them.



And that's most of what I can think of - oh bottles of IPA of course for washing.


Finally if, and this is for later, if you REALLY get into 3d printing and its going great - get a spare screen for the printer. The manufacturers of the screens cycle them "reasonably" quickly (eg the 8K screens are already out of production). So if its going REALLY well and you've some spare cash - grab a spare screen for stock. Your screen will die eventually and the midrange printers like the Saturn 4 are worth keeping going for the cost of a new screen. Having one is stock is basically just future proofing yourself a bit.
But again don't get this now, get it if you find you REALLY like this and all

Any of the current anycubic machines are worth a look. Coincidentally I use mine for both hobby and an etsy store that sells gothic items (gothic wedding cake toppers coming soon...).

The software has improved massively, and I have hardly had a print failure (and those were 100% my fault and very easily prevented.)

 Overread wrote:

But again don't get this now, get it if you find you REALLY like this and all

How'm I supposed to know if I like it if I don't do it,it's why I suggested 2nd hand mc😄😄😄😄😄
In all seriousness it's not that far removed from my job(cnc machinist/programmer/cad)which I get great satisfaction from when it all comes to fruition.I have decided to take the plunge and ordered a saturn 4 ultra.speaking of the fep,is it machine exclusive or does any old fep work(barring size differences,I assume)and how difficult is it to replace?

duanimal wrote:

 Overread wrote:

But again don't get this now, get it if you find you REALLY like this and all

How'm I supposed to know if I like it if I don't do it,it's why I suggested 2nd hand mc😄😄😄😄😄
In all seriousness it's not that far removed from my job(cnc machinist/programmer/cad)which I get great satisfaction from when it all comes to fruition.I have decided to take the plunge and ordered a saturn 4 ultra.speaking of the fep,is it machine exclusive or does any old fep work(barring size differences,I assume)and how difficult is it to replace?

Yep my comment there was purely about picking up a spare screen for the printer. Ergo future proofing yourself for when the screen eventually burns out in the printer.


FEPS are not machine specific; you just need the material large enough to cover an area just bigger than the VAT (since you need some excess around the edges when you fit it; you'll trim the excess off once its fitted). There are plenty of machine specific fep sets which are just pre-cut to suggested dimensions for fitting

Ah my bad,thought ya meant the printer,makes sense now.D'oh.Already having fun with chitubox and lychee.Working out the support structure is pretty fun,just don't know if it'll work for a few weeks.Can't wait to get started

Personally I lean toward lychee - its cheaper than Chitu for paid and its interface and setup is much more built around what end-users need. Atlas (who do a lot of the presupport work in the industry) work closely with Lychee and give a lot of feedback.

You can catch some of their guides here https://atlas3dss.com/learn

They are based on earlier versions so some things have shifted around, but the theories remain the same

They also have started doing streaming every so often on twitch and their staff are more than happy to talk about support works and what they are doing and answer questions

https://www.twitch.tv/atlas3dss

Drop them a follow so you get notified when they go live.

Am finding lychee a bit more user friendly than cbox,plus cbox seems a little glitchy on my pc(definitely not underpowered),which I have read about elsewhere.Out of curiosity,and I know this isn't an exact science,but,for example,how many(let's say)40k space marines would a litre of resin produce?

No idea I've never printed a marine.

There are some volume estimations in lychee (look in the lower left corner); though they can be a bit erratic, same as the time estimations (they are normally shorter than reality). They can give you a "rough" idea though.





Also if you're looking for models I can point you toward a whole bunch of various things if there's something you're interested in.

I second Lychee use. I found its auto support function really effective.

Here are my collections on Thingiverse. When the kids were really small and I had nothing to do of an evening, i used to scroll there for interesting stuff basically every day. Random picture of scenery, vehicles and smaller models that may be of interest.

https://www.thingiverse.com/gflinty/collections

 JamesY wrote:
Any of the current anycubic machines are worth a look. Coincidentally I use mine for both hobby and an etsy store that sells gothic items (gothic wedding cake toppers coming soon...).

The software has improved massively, and I have hardly had a print failure (and those were 100% my fault and very easily prevented.)

I have an Anycubic Photon and the prints are great. Worked just fine out of the box.

That said, there's no remote print option without hardware upgrades. If you want to put the printer in another room, you are going to have to put your scans on a thumb drive. My Wanaho Duplicator, on the other hand, uses Octoprint. I have that set up with a Raspberry Pi and set it up in a closet, when I want to print I do that from anywhere.

Specifically,im looking for vehicles,aircraft,titans and terrain for legions imperiis(any type of terrain,not just ruins/buildings)and 40k infantry and terrain,maybe vehicles.There's a few specific single models I'm hoping to find,such as buck rogers starfighter,a farscape prowler,star fleet x-bomber and the last starfighter ship.Im sure there'll be a bunch of other stuff that'll come to mind over time.The wife is looking for anything gothic,dragon and fairy figurines

Gunstar

https://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=Gunstar&page=1

Buck Rogers ship

https://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=Buck+rogers&page=1

You can usually find 40k vehicle copies or with similar aesthetics on thingiverse, cults3d or myminifactory.

Thingiverse is usually good for scenery in all scales as well

Grimdark Terrain does some of the best epic scale terrain out there and its all fully modular with a insane amount of potential
https://grimdarkterrain.com

He does monthly releases so its well worth joining!

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice guys,much appreciated.Really looking forward to getting my(gloved)hands dirty

So it looks.like I'll still be waiting for the printer for another 4-5 weeks.What would be a sensible resin to start with?I suppose something of a small quantity bottle,fairly inexpensive but not so poor a quality that would be off-putting in relation to detail.Then try some of the pricier resins,such as the phrozen aqua grey 8k,as suggested earlier

It depends a bit - personally I'm a big fan of Phrozen's Aqua 8K Grey resin.

Holds good detail, prints very easily and in general is decently durable (its not the strongest by far, but its not terrible).

The thing is if you start with a lower grade resin its cheaper, but you might get more fails (so it ends up not cheaper).

Ive had nice results from Elegoo ceramic grey water-washable.

The wife was inquiring about mixing different resins,and though I said it probably isn't a good idea,it made me curious what was safe and what wasn't.So out of curiosity,is there any ombination of resins that should be an absolute no no(just to put the wifes mind at peace)?

So in general you can mix resins.

In fact Tenacious resin, which is more durable than many, but also more expensive, is often 10% mixed into a regular resin to give a bit more durability.

Mixing does have a few things to consider

1) If you mix you will want to recalibrate because you've changed the properties of the resin you are printing with - so calibration prints to make sure your exposure is good

2) It can sometimes cause issues with exposure. You'd spot this with a good test print like the Ameralabs Town. (check my earlier links for info).
Normally you'll find that you have to accept some over and some under exposure on the test results to find a happy balancing point between resolution and mechanical strength.

Mixing resins can exacerbate this to where you might find the final result is very tricky to find an ideal middleground.

Quantities also matter - eg if you've a bit of resin (a dribble) left over from the last bottle and you've got a new bottle you can just pour the new in; calibrate and go and it should be ok.
Some people will do that rather than removing a dribble of resin and either storing it and never having a use or wasting it as its cleaned out.

I am happy with my bambu lab, the best for the money