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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/12/30 05:06:25
Subject: Dark Angels [2,500 List]
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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HQs
145-Legion Cataphractii Praetor with Terranic Greatsword and Grenade Harness
135-Legion Cataphractii Centurion (Chaplain) with Terranic Greatsword and Grenade Harness
280
Troops
100-Ten Tactical Legionnaires, Stormwing
100-Ten Tactical Legionnaires, Stormwing
100-Ten Tactical Legionnaires, Stormwing
100-Ten Tactical Legionnaires, Stormwing
400
Elites
540-Inner Circle Knights Cenobium, Ten Strong, with a Legion Vexilla, Grenade Harness on Preceptor, Deathwing, Hunters Of Beasts
+400-Dedicated Land Raider Spartan with Flare Shield
235-Dreadwing Interemptor Squad, Ten Strong, with Artificer Armor on Praefectus
+40-Dedicated Rhino with Dozer Blade
235-Dreadwing Interemptor Squad, Ten Strong, with Artificer Armor on Praefectus
+40-Dedicated Rhino with Dozer Blade
330-Six Apothecaries with Artificer Armor
1820
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Things that I am undecided on:
-What Wings to make the HQs and Apothecaries
-What Warlord Trait to give, and who to make Warlord
-What Rite of War, if any
Things I am pretty sure on:
-Knights Cenobium get the Chaplain and Primus Medicae
-Each other squad gets a normal Apothecary
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/12/30 05:59:30
Subject: Re:Dark Angels [2,500 List]
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Fixture of Dakka
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Okey Dokey, one glaring issue to start with. You have 6 apothecaries, and only 4 squads they can join (the tacticals). The Interemptors have Bitter Duty, so apothecaries can't join them. Neither can other characters unless they too have bitter duty. My thoughts though. -Wings. Given that both characters have TGS, Stormwing Deathwing is the obvious choice. However since the Cenobium also have Stormwing Deathwing, this opens up the option of giving the HQ's other Wings so that you can call upon the different bonuses, should you need. If both HQ's are to join the Cenobium, my suggestions would be give HQ Firewing and the other Dreadwing. Dreadwing's good if it looks like you're going to come under fire from any of the plasma/volkite/etc. Firewing isn't strictly needed since the TGS means you're hitting at S6 and will therefore (the majority of the time) be wounding on 2s. However if you come up against a primarch or some other such nasty high toughness character, the bonus to wound becomes important and in this circumstance combos well with a particular Warlord Trait, but I'll go into that below. -The apothecaries don't chose their own wings. They take on the wing of the squad they're attached too. In this case, they'd all be stormwing because that's what the Tacticals have. Same goes for Techmarines, if you ever run them. -Warlord Trait. I know Stoic Defender is often seen as the premier choice thanks to the pinning. But I quite like Seneschal of the Keys. Especially if the warlord is attached to a big mean unit like the Cenobium. The 1+ to WS for the turn is huge if used at the right time. Take the Praetor/Preceptor up to WS 7 and the rest of the Cenobium up to WS6. It's been a game saver for me on more then one occasion when you run into some nasty melee unit like the Pheonix Termies. It's great because not only are you hitting easier, it makes it harder for you opponent to hit back because your majority weapon skill is higher. And this feeds into what I was saying above. If you come against someone, say like a Primarch, or a high Toughness unit joined by an Independent Character, this is where Firewing is handy. Use Firewing for the turn, pop your Scenechal bonus and then you maintain the weapon skill bonus but will also have an easier time getting the wounds on as well. In most non-primarch cases, you'd likely be wounding on a 3+/3+. Against Primarchs, eh... 5+/5+, which honestly still holds up as Rending/Murderstrike will be going off anyway. -Rite of War. For the list you've posted, I can't think of any RoW that would enhance the list. It's fine as it is without one. Other then that, -Chaplain's a good choice. -Cenobium are a good choice. -I'd be tempted to find 25pts to give the spartan the twin-linked lascannon. Since it's your only source of Anti-armour, maximising it's hitting power isn't a bad idea. -To whit, Interemptors. It's been my experience that unless you're planning on taking 2 Incinerators, 10 guys is too many in a squad. They get expensive real quick, and given that templates can't touch friendly troops when firing, means you have to spread the squad out so they can make the most out of their shooting. I personally think 6 or 7 is the sweet spot. 10 is a fine option though if you want some bullet sponges, or if it's the only squad of them you're taking. Since you have two squads of them though, I'd definitely say save yourself some points and drop a few from each squad. This'd also help free up points for the extra lascannon on the spartan. -Grenade harness on the HQs. Since they're both going in the Cenobium squad, which already has a harness of it's own, and the spartan is an assault vehicle, 3 harnesses is redundant. Save yourself 10pts and drop two of them. -You also list a Primus Medicae at the end, but there isn't one in your list. Just the preator and chaplain. Was the praetor a typo? -You could, if you have the models/pts spare, consider dropping on of the tactical squads for a despoiler squad. Not super scary on it's own, but can be good for flanking maneuvers or as a charge deterrent/counter-charge unit. -Also, on the apothecaries again, if you can find the pts, I'd 100% recommend giving them Combi-grenade launchers. Means they can shoot with the rest of the squad, and it potentially adds another 3 shots for a rapid fire Fury of the Legion. Also the frag grenade option has the potential to be very useful on overwatch, as if you get the wound off with it, the enemy squad has to take a pinning test and could then fail the charge, saving your tacs from probably doom. Plus it's hilarious when it happens. Well worth the 5pts a piece. EDIT: Mixed up my stormwing/deathwing when talking about the wing choices.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/12/30 08:46:22
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/12/30 06:09:59
Subject: Dark Angels [2,500 List]
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Nasty Nob
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JNAProductions wrote:HQs
145-Legion Cataphractii Praetor with Terranic Greatsword and Grenade Harness
135-Legion Cataphractii Centurion (Chaplain) with Terranic Greatsword and Grenade Harness
280
Which unit does the Praetor join? Also - you mentioned having a Primus Medicae, although I wouldn't take 3 HQs in this list.
Troops
100-Ten Tactical Legionnaires, Stormwing
100-Ten Tactical Legionnaires, Stormwing
100-Ten Tactical Legionnaires, Stormwing
100-Ten Tactical Legionnaires, Stormwing
400
I wonder if these minimal squads are a good idea. I realise they are there to hold objectives while the rest of the army does the work, but they will be slow, and won't last long under fire. If you go with this, I wouldn't bother allocating a 45 point Apothecary to them - I would just give artificer armour to the Sergeants.
Elites
540-Inner Circle Knights Cenobium, Ten Strong, with a Legion Vexilla, Grenade Harness on Preceptor, Deathwing, Hunters Of Beasts
+400-Dedicated Land Raider Spartan with Flare Shield
235-Dreadwing Interemptor Squad, Ten Strong, with Artificer Armor on Praefectus
+40-Dedicated Rhino with Dozer Blade
235-Dreadwing Interemptor Squad, Ten Strong, with Artificer Armor on Praefectus
+40-Dedicated Rhino with Dozer Blade
330-Six Apothecaries with Artificer Armor
1820
The big unit of Inner Circle Knights looks like a bit of a points sink/fire magnet. I see a lot of DA lists where this unit is 5 models. Perhaps 2 squads of them, mounted in Land Raiders? It's only 40 points more, but it would give you more flexibility and some redundancy. It would mean losing the Apothecaries [edit: as Shrub pointed out, they can't join the Interemptors anyway).
Similarly, the Interemptors could probably be smaller squads.
You have very little ranged firepower, and your only dedicated anti-armour capability is the Spartan. If you drop the Apothecaries, maybe lose 1 Tac squad and reduce the Redemptor squad sizes, you should have enough points for some Heavy Support units.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2024/12/30 06:16:22
"You know that saying 'Caesar's wife is above suspicion'? Well, I put an end to all that rubbish!" - Major Denis Bloodnok, late of the 3rd Disgusting Fusiliers |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/12/30 06:15:25
Subject: Dark Angels [2,500 List]
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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I did some edits as I was porting the list over, and made some goofs.
I also made goofs in the list itself, as pointed out to me above.
Gonna get some sleep (it’s past midnight here) but I’ll be adjusting it for sure.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/12/30 18:34:44
Subject: Re:Dark Angels [2,500 List]
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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HQs
140-Legion Cataphractii Centurion, Primus Medicae, Terranic Greatsword, Dreadwing
130-Legion Cataphractii Centurion, Chaplain, Terranic Greatsword, Firewing, Warlord with Seneschal of the Keys
270
Troops
110-Legion Tactical Squad, Ten Strong, with Artificer Armor on Sergeant, Stormwing
110-Legion Tactical Squad, Ten Strong, with Artificer Armor on Sergeant, Stormwing
110-Legion Tactical Squad, Ten Strong, with Artificer Armor on Sergeant, Stormwing
110-Legion Tactical Squad, Ten Strong, with Artificer Armor on Sergeant, Stormwing
195-Legion Reconnaissance Squad, Ten Strong, with Five Nemesis Bolters, Firewing
195-Legion Reconnaissance Squad, Ten Strong, with Five Nemesis Bolters, Firewing
830
Elites
540-Inner Circle Knights Cenobium, Ten Strong, Deathwing, Hunters Of Beasts, with Grenade Harness and Legion Vexilla
+430-Dedicated Land Raider Spartan with Flare Shield, Twin-Linked Lascannon, and Hunter-Killer Missile
175-Dreadwing Interemptor Squad, Seven Strong, with Artificer Armor on Sergeant
+40-Dedicated Rhino with Dozer Blade
175-Dreadwing Interemptor Squad, Seven Strong, with Artificer Armor on Sergeant
+40-Dedicated Rhino with Dozer Blade
1,400
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Okay. List reworked, thanks to the advice given.
Dropped the Apothecaries for everyone except the Knights Cenobium. Plus 45 points for +50% durability at best means I might as well just take more guys.
I didn't take more guys, though, and instead opted for some Sniper and Infiltration power with Recon squads.
Also dropped the Interemptors to 7-strong. Excellent point on how you can actually shoot.
Thoughts on the new list?
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/12/31 00:18:41
Subject: Re:Dark Angels [2,500 List]
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Fixture of Dakka
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Looks good!
Now I'm a big fan of Apothecaries and I rarely run a list where there's not two or three. So I won't say put them back in, as it's your list and you should run it as you see fit. But I will say that the 5+ FNP is not to be underestimated. And if your tacticals are sitting on an objective, like I suspect is largely their intended use, the 4+ FNP makes them incredibly hard to shift. More so then what mathhammer might suggest. Now again, not saying you should, but what you could do, is drop one of the tactical squads, and add back in two artificer apoths. As with the addition of the Recon Squads, you now have 6 Line units. Which is waaaaay more then you're ever likely to need. My advice would be to to play a few games with with the 40 tacticals, and play a few with 30 tacticals and 2 apoths and see which one you find more effective.
Just remember to keep in mind, that even without an apothecary attached, a tactical squad will still get the 6+ FNP on an objective thanks to Heart of the Legion.
Speaking of the Recon squads, I think they're a worthy addition to the list. The Nemesis Bolters add that long range anti-infantry firepower your list otherwise lacked. And splitting the 10 Nemesis between two squads over taking them all in the one squad was the right choice I think. Now I've never run Recon squads before, so I don't speak from 1st hand experience here, but if you've given them Nemesis Bolters, I wouldn't be infiltrating them up the board. Part of the power of the Nemesis Bolter is its long range, so plonking them up just outside your opponents deployment zone runs counter-intuitive to me as it means you've negated a large part of their benefit. You'll only be getting 1 (maybe 2) turns of shooting rather then 3 or 4 turns if they're up the back field. Deploy them somewhere high if you can with a good line of sight and let them be the thorn in your opponents side that they're meant to be.
Two other things that I think are worth mentioning, just for the sake of it.
1. The Cenobium have the option for free thunder hammers. The general online "wisdom" (take that for what you think it's worth) holds that 2 out of 5 cenobium should have hammers. Mainly for cracking vehicles and dealing with dreadnoughts that come your way, but Brutal 2 is also certainly not to be overlooked when it comes to mashing HQ's. Although unwieldy doesn't play to their favour. So it really comes down to whether you think the hammers will suite your playstyle and if you can be bothered converting them.
The second part to this is to also consider whether or not Order of the Broken Claws Cenobium are worth taking. Same price as regular Cenobium, but for 2pts more you can take the Advex-mor Greatsword which honestly are filthy when it comes to dealing with dreads and other monstrous creatures. If you're coming up against a lot of dreads or Word Bearers players who run Mhara Ghal, Broken Claws are the premier choice.
2. Something to keep in mind regarding the Interemptors. Two things actually. They're a dark horse when it comes to melee. They're a veteran profile so they have 2 attacks base. They also have counter-attack and a bolt pistol/close combat weapon, so they're always dealing out 4 attacks in melee (5 for the Praefectus). Sure they're not overly good melee attacks, given they're strength 4 with no other bonuses but you will be wounding against -1 toughness thanks to their rad grenades, so most times it'll be 3's to wound. So they'll hold their own better then you might expect. A vexilla can also be really useful here if you have the pts to spare.
The other thing (and this is important!) is when you overwatch with Interemptors, order of operations means that rad grenades kick in before you shoot, so anything charging you does so at -1 toughness. This is big for your little cardre of murderers because the plasma burners are strength 6, which means anything toughness 4 (now 3) will be subject to Instant Death. Combined with breaching going off on a 4+ this gives you a very good change of vapourizing just about anything that is foolish enough to charge you. You just have to hope you roll high on your Wall of Death rolls first.
All that being said, any opponent with their brain switched on, will shoot them off the board first chance they get. So you likely won't encounter the above scenario very often. But it's one to remember for when it does happen.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/12/31 01:11:18
Subject: Dark Angels [2,500 List]
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Where do I find the Broken Claws?
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/12/31 01:32:40
Subject: Re:Dark Angels [2,500 List]
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Fixture of Dakka
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Oh ah, the Exemplary Battle PDF. Here. Under the Exemplary Battles of the Age of Darkness tab, smack bang in the middle, "Exemplary Battle Unit Update". White you're there, I'd also suggest grabbing the Legacies of the Age of Darkness PDF if you haven't already got it. It's got a couple of characters and some specialist units for the 1st Legion among others. It's worth having just for Fairth Redloss, who's a beast.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/12/31 01:37:45
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