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So with the Halls of the Ancestor’s book for Necromunda released yesterday, we have some much needed further background on the Leagues of Votann, and Ironhead Squats.
First and foremost? The Ironhead Squats, now largely native to Necromunda do originally hail from the Leagues of Votann. They settled on Necromunda shortly after the Horus Heresy, seeing an opportunity to profit from the rebuilding effort.
Originally 13 clans strong, 12 made their home on Necromunda, with the 13th declining, and charting their own path to nobody really knows where.
Importantly, they had brought their own Votann with them, which suffered the same degradation as its contemporaries in the Galactic Core. It’s currently lost to the Ironhead, following a natural disaster and a fissure claiming it. Efforts to find and reclaim it continue to this day.
What’s particularly interesting is that the services of the Ironhead weren’t agree with the ruling house of Necromunda, but the Adeptus Terra itself. This means not even the Planetary Governor can rescind the ancient agreements. It’s above his pay grade.
Another point of interest is that like the rest of the Kin, the Ironheads did rely on their Votann to ensure they were physically adapted to the harsh environs of Necromunda. But, having now lost access to the Votann (see above), they’re making new Squats the old fashioned way. That’s an important clarification on Kin Lore, as the so far only Leagues of Votann Codex was silent on whether Cloneskeins were a preference, or a necessity.
But it’s still not a complete answer on that one. See, the Ironheads have developed into their own unique culture over 10,000 years. So whilst it leaves the door open to other Kin making babies the old fashioned way, it could still be they have to rely on the Cloneskeins. I guess it depends on exactly how the Votann go about weaving the DNA and that.
Another important thing? Land Trains are back, baby! Sent out from the holdfasts, and potentially kilometres long. Each is comprised of multiple super heavies, said to be two to three times the size of the largest Imperial Super Heavy tanks. Which in theory could mean two or three times the size of say, a Baneblade, Leviathan or Capitol Imperialis. But yeah, they’re huge. And when circled for prospecting or defence, are referred to as Laager’s.
The loss of the Votann has furthermore shown us the Kin do properly understand their technology, as whilst their innovations and capabilities are diminished, they’re not reduced to repair and recycle existing things. Oh no. Every Squat will build a Techmite companion at some point, and make their own gear when the mood takes. So that’s another nice bit of clarification, and supports the overall feel of a rugged, determined species which isn’t solely reliant on Magic Space Tech - but having Magic Space Tech is still a leg up, as one might expect.
And if you like Imperial Guard, it’s worth noting the Necromunda 8th “Spiders” Regiment has Squat recruits. So maybe start thinking about your conversions
Finally, it’s confirmed they’re not the only Kin in the same position within The Imperium. So there’s the chance of Imperial Squats cropping up in other places too. Which is nice.
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And have the Ironheads really profited? It doesn't seem so, as they have lost their ships, their Votann, and slipped down in technology as a result. What have they gained from settling on Necromunda? They have survived, yes, but have they prospered? As one who doesn't yet have that book, I don't know but I could certainly argue that they might have been better off staying with the Leagues of Votann.
Their ships are still there, used to create their initial Holds. And they’ve most definitely turned a profit through exclusive mining rights, and being able to prospect where us smelly hoomans couldn’t possibly survive. And they’re explicitly described as hoarding vast wealth.
They also enjoy a level of protection from the Imperial House, with the Noble and Clan Houses generally knowing better than to needlessly antagonise them.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Their ships are still there, used to create their initial Holds. And they’ve most definitely turned a profit through exclusive mining rights, and being able to prospect where us smelly hoomans couldn’t possibly survive. And they’re explicitly described as hoarding vast wealth.
They also enjoy a level of protection from the Imperial House, with the Noble and Clan Houses generally knowing better than to needlessly antagonise them.
Dismantling their ships to make Holds means they no longer have them. Hoarding mineral wealth may be a part of the Kin's original programming since it seems they were meant to harvest resources for their original masters. However wealth is not truly wealth unless at some point it is used. Maybe they might trade some to the Houses of Necromunda for foodstuffs and other things but is that more than mere survival? Could they be more like the Urani-Surtr Regulates, living an austere life and multiplying in numbers instead of raising individual quality of life?
So my idea of kitbashing Necormunda squats with the new Ratling sniper rifles does have merit after all!
If squats ever come to 40KIoM proper, whoever originally wanted them gone from it will pop some templar veins hehehe!
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
And if you like Imperial Guard, it’s worth noting the Necromunda 8th “Spiders” Regiment has Squat recruits. So maybe start thinking about your conversions
Heh! I’ve been painting up a Necromundan 8th army using vintage figures. I guess I can include some squat squads without violating the sacred canon!
Iracundus wrote: And have the Ironheads really profited? It doesn't seem so, as they have lost their ships, their Votann, and slipped down in technology as a result. What have they gained from settling on Necromunda? They have survived, yes, but have they prospered? As one who doesn't yet have that book, I don't know but I could certainly argue that they might have been better off staying with the Leagues of Votann.
There is trade between the Squats and Hivers, and typically the Squats come out on top.
Also, the Squats treat other abhumans as equals, which is nice of them. One of the Holds is now a Squat/Ogryn cooperative.
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What’s interesting is their method of settlement is exactly the same as we’re told Dark Age human colonies began.
Go out in massive ship. Find planet. Land ship, use that as base of operations, cannibalising it, under the guidance of your STC.
And we have an example of partial terraforming, specifically CO2 capturing units which have made Necromunda’s atmosphere not entirely inimical to life. I mean, nobody is gonna have a good time breathing it entirely without protection. But it’s still better.
Now, given the Ironhead prospect where pretty much nobody else can, and have genetically adapted themselves to Necromunda? I’m left wondering if they’ve only done a partial atmospheric fix for deliberate, selfish reasons.
After all, your claims and rights are a lot easier to defend on a marginally less toxic that it was hellscape, than on a world where any spotty little Herbert has lovely, fresh, clean air to breathe.
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Worth noting that even after squats got squatted jervis wrote an article in the Citadel Journal for people wanting to keep using their armies basically saying there were still Squat colonies that got reintegrated into the Imperium (IG proxies) and those that struck out on their own and acted as raiders and mercenaries (Ork proxies) so the idea of reintegrated squats is hardly new, and one of the Ork codices (I want to say 4th) mentions the Abhuman Defenders of Golgotha, who as we know from previous lore are Squats.
At some point it'd be interesting to try and connect the old squat and demiurg lore with the new leagues/Necromunda lore and try and get a coherent list of things that still exist. The Leagues lore has a massive gap of "and then we forgot everything" which is almost big enough to slot in the older lore
I'd still love to know if some things are explicitly retconned or just haven't been mentioned:
We know they have Land Trains, what about Goliath Mega-cannons? Iron Eagle Gyrocopters? Overlord armoured airships?
Is the Capitol Imperialis still based on the Squat Leviathan chassis?
Next time they publish the Ian Watson books will they re-add the squat? 🤣
They definitely have airships of some kind. One of the 12 Clans claimed the skies of Necromunda, and now rock about in a floating fortress, harvesting chems from the air.
As for the Leagues? I’d argue we’re yet to see their formal military. What we have at the moment seem quite Vanguardy. Hardy forward units and their vehicles. Handy in a small to medium battle thanks to their tech’s efficiency. But not terribly varied (mainly due to production constraints in the real world).
They’ve also not stagnated. Their equipment is somewhat fancier than the Ironheads. So over 10,000 years, they’ve clearly continued to develop and refine technologies.
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Even if you don’t play Necromunda, Halls of the Ancestors is a pretty decent source book all its own.
Also, if Ironheads were 40K instead of the Legues, I don’t think I’d be mad about it.
I really like both, and each stands on its own merits. But I’ve a definite appreciation for the Rogue Trader stylings of the Ironheads. Especially as it looks developed, rather than overhauled. As if the Rogue Trader Squats were the common ancestor aesthetic, and just how all Kin looked 10,000 years ago.
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Lord Damocles wrote: How do you lose a votann? Presumably they know where the fissure which it fell into is..?
I like the theory that weirdly round and advanced computer Van Saar 'found' has totally nothing to do with said disappearance
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: And when circled for prospecting or defence, are referred to as Laager’s.
Pity GW decided to use racist name instead of infinitely more fitting (and cooler) wagenburg. Oh well...
The loss of the Votann has furthermore shown us the Kin do properly understand their technology, as whilst their innovations and capabilities are diminished, they’re not reduced to repair and recycle existing things. Oh no. Every Squat will build a Techmite companion at some point, and make their own gear when the mood takes. So that’s another nice bit of clarification, and supports the overall feel of a rugged, determined species which isn’t solely reliant on Magic Space Tech - but having Magic Space Tech is still a leg up, as one might expect.
Do they?
I can't help but notice they have exactly zero fancy Votann guns, no Ironkin or COGs, and everything they field is slightly modified Imperial tech, including crude stuff like stubbers and autoguns. If anything, Van Saar have stuff that is way more advanced despite being below Votann level. Is there any proof they understand anything more than some particularly bright underhive gunsmith? Because if so, their existing range definitely doesn't support it...
Implication there is the Leagues continued to refine their tech in the intervening 10,000 years.
Or given permanent colonisation on Necromunda? They simply need the most robust gear, that’s plenty for dealing with pretty much any threat a largely peaceful (as such things go) Imperial World.
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They're using modified imperial gear because almost all the tech on Necromunda is imperial tech - they're still innovating but they don't have a fleets worth of resources to manufacture stuff like the pure Kin tech, but Kin tech and Imperial tech share common origins so they understand it well enough to consistently make reliable improvements even on a crapheap dustbowl.
Yes they don't have Ironkin, but Ironkin and Kin are both born from the Votann, and Ironkin don't have a handy backup reproductive system to fall back on when they lost access to their Votann.
In short (heh) Squats being at a lower tech level than the Leagues isn't a skill issue, it's a resources/facilities issue
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/01/17 05:20:08
This is very intersting to me. I love Squats and have quite a few, but have zero interest in Votaan or current Necromunda. I'm tempted to pick up this book just for the lore and ideas.
Whilst no Waaargh! The Orks, it’s the deepest dive into Squats we’ve yet had. And as we’ve 12 original clans, all specialising in different areas of the benighted world, we get a decent glimpse into how other Kin or Squat populations might go about things.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I really like both, and each stands on its own merits. But I’ve a definite appreciation for the Rogue Trader stylings of the Ironheads. Especially as it looks developed, rather than overhauled. As if the Rogue Trader Squats were the common ancestor aesthetic, and just how all Kin looked 10,000 years ago.
I've seen this sort of thing said quite a lot, the idea that they're somehow closer to the original squat miniatures...but I don't really understand what about them is that? Both the Ironhead Squats and the votann designs are significant changes from the stylings of the classic 40k Squats.
The way I look at it, is the Ironheads represent what Squats would look like in 40K if they’d never been, aha, squatted, in the first place. And so had the benefit of decades of revision and resculpt. Especially the 3rd Edition “every faction now has its own suite of weapons”.
There’s still a clear design lineage, just with *checks notes, and about to feel very old* nearly 30 years of iterations missing, but strongly implied.
The Trikes are a bit beefier, the exo-armour a bit more practical, the Vartijan a Dreadnought type super heavy infantry, the Skalvian Explorator a direct but different replacement for the humble Rhino.
To my old eyes and mind? They really feel like a natural progression, just jumping a few generations.
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They're abhumans, in that they're a stable strain descended from human genetic stock: Homo Sapiens Rotundus
However the Kin have a lot of dealings with Xenos who are on less than friendly terms with humanity (or sometimes just don't want people to know they're dealing with Kin) so they constructed the identity of the Xenos Demiurg which they operate under.
Basically they're abhumans that cosplay as Xenos when it's convenient
Lovely information and top discussion. Thank you very much for sharing all of this. Seems a must-have book.
And the Van Saar STC theory is hilarious!
As to styles over time, my interpretation is that Rogue Trader style Squats and Ironheads is how many Squats have developed to look in M41, while the Leagues of Votann style is close to the original Dark Age of Technology look, which is still sported by a great many Squats in the Leagues of Votann.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2025/01/18 23:32:35
It's interesting, and seems a bit strange, that what sounds like an entire league landed on one planet and have been mining it for 10,000 years for some reason. A 10,000 year mining operation for just a Kindred sounds a bit too much, let alone an entire league focusing on one planet for that long. Even more so when it's not as if they can use whatever they find to trade with others (except the occasional ship that arrives that they trade with) and it's not even their planet.
What I don't understand is why Games Workshop are so focused on the 4 or 5 ground-based Leagues of the Votann, when there are thousands of aquatic ones that live in the ocean.
Spoiler:
I read a book that was about 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.
BorderCountess wrote: Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
Mentlegen324 wrote: It's interesting, and seems a bit strange, that what sounds like an entire league landed on one planet and have been mining it for 10,000 years for some reason. A 10,000 year mining operation for just a Kindred sounds a bit too much, let alone an entire league focusing on one planet for that long. Even more so when it's not as if they can use whatever they find to trade with others (except the occasional ship that arrives that they trade with) and it's not even their planet.
It is all about scale. Because the Squats have been mining Necromuna for ten millennia, we must conclude that theirs is a small operation compared to the great Leagues of the galactic core. Both in terms of numbers and size of machinery. Thinking of them as all coming from, say, a single Kindred and then slowly multiplying and sprouting off new Holds makes sense. The Necromunda Kin do not have enormous strip mining machines that could clear this operation in comparatively short order. They would mine deeper than humans can, and they would focus on the most valuable minerals while humans are stuck with recycling slag heaps.
And because the Squats can still mine riches, they keep going. We know this because they keep going after 10'000 years and counting. I don't see a cause for doubt here.
Try to pat the cat along with the grain of its fur, and not against it. Try to imagine how the background works and fit together. This is not a laughable case of science fantasy authors not grasping galactic scale and numbers, as is so often the case with military matters like tiny Imperial Guard armies and only a million Space Marines, also known as fumbled numbers that undermine the grandiose scale of the setting.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2025/01/22 09:04:02
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