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So the premise here is that i'm writing a homebrew chapter called the Sanguine Reavers (8th Founding, M34, Blood Angels lineage). Officially, the 4th Tactical Squad (understrength) has been assigned to garrison and defend a Estates Imperium Scribal Centre on some toxic-cloudy dead forgotten world 'until otherwise relieved', unofficially, they're there to 'recruit' and 'train' with the 'blessing' of the local administrator.

This planet is not uninhabited, and is in fact dealing with an active insurgency. Ie, the local Imperial Guard garrison defected and is now in open rebellion. The renegade guardsmen themselves are well-armoured with hostile environment rated carapace armour and ppe.

The Chapter is using this world as a training centre. One, as a live-fire shooting range where the enemies shoot back (ie, the Tactical Marines stand behind a barricade and shoot at renegade guardsmen, who obligingly shoot back but pose little risk). Two, to get the marines acclimitised to the red thirst (and to not go mad whenever they see an organic enemy). Three, to see who is good enough to graduate and get shipped off world to 'real conflicts'.

How plausible is this premise?

Taskforce Spire

4th Tactical Squad (understrength) - 1 Cpl, 2 pvts
Scout Squad - indeterminate

Renegades

Oscar Company - indeterminate

(A renegade rifle section consists of 8 men divided into two 'bricks'. Charlie and Delta respectively. Each brick consists of 1 nco and 3 pvts.)

I guess the threat level is no worse than using any other kind of death world for training. Other chapters have recruitment and training regimes that are similarly callous.

Deliberately prolonging the conflict to get a bit of extra training in might draw the gaze of Imperial authorities, but taking advantage of a hot war to improve the troops would probably be commended in that universe for efficiency.

Perfectly plausible and indeed many chapter recruitment worlds seem set up for training vs live humans, before during and after recruitment.

Openly prolonging a war for training might be considered a failure on the part of the Marines and a questionable action.


A FAR more grim-dark approach would be for them to engineer their own war on a backwater world. One where they influence both sides and ensure that the war is prolonged and never-ending. Both sides getting supplies to keep going; neither one allowed to back down whilst agents of the Marines manipulate both sides to ensure a prolonged conflict.

Breeding not only hardy warriors that might be suitable for recruitment, but also giving them live-fire situations for training of new recruits.



And a swift execution/recruitment for anyone who happens to discover the scheme (on world)!


Could be very plausible for a chapter in a region of space that's perhaps very tame and docile and with a very safe home-world. So they create their own hellhole of endless war on a backwater world in that region. The world convinced that they are in war torn region of space whilst just outside of their world's reach there's totally safe spacelanes, holiday worlds and paradise planets.

Flinty wrote:I guess the threat level is no worse than using any other kind of death world for training. Other chapters have recruitment and training regimes that are similarly callous.

As it stands, its constant small-unit action, 8 renegades with good quality carapace, hotshot lasguns and frag grenades (lots of frag grenades) with limited cover advancing against.... several bolter marines in defensive posture behind cover.

Overread wrote:

A FAR more grim-dark approach would be for them to engineer their own war on a backwater world. One where they influence both sides and ensure that the war is prolonged and never-ending. Both sides getting supplies to keep going; neither one allowed to back down whilst agents of the Marines manipulate both sides to ensure a prolonged conflict.

Breeding not only hardy warriors that might be suitable for recruitment, but also giving them live-fire situations for training of new recruits.



And a swift execution/recruitment for anyone who happens to discover the scheme (on world)!


Could be very plausible for a chapter in a region of space that's perhaps very tame and docile and with a very safe home-world. So they create their own hellhole of endless war on a backwater world in that region. The world convinced that they are in war torn region of space whilst just outside of their world's reach there's totally safe spacelanes, holiday worlds and paradise planets.

As things stand, i'm pondering adding a 4th Tactical Marine (specialist, with melta gun) whose only job it is to remain a few fathoms behind the barricade and if truly necessary, 'neutralise' trainee Marines who fall to the Black Rage and fly off the handle. Not sure if battlefield execution of raging Astartes is acceptable though. Its that or, if necessary, the other non-raging marines dogpile their beleagued colleague and render them into insensitivity.

Regarding the prolonging of the conflict, the other option i'm pondering is that perhaps a outside political entity is formenting problems (maybe GSC, or Chaos, or just dodgy politicians). And the Space Marines present either know all along but play along for training purposes, or they don't know, and there will be hell to pay when they do find out.

The Death Korps does it, it's not a stretch to imagine Marines would, too.

There's a difference between engaging in mock battles and actively not suppressing an anti-Imperial rebellion.
The same goes for a Feral or Feudal world having conflict between tribes or dynasties.

A well-armed and organised rebellion that Astartes are using as practice wouldn't stay hidden for long and the Inquisition at the very least would have be having some words about it.

 Gert wrote:
There's a difference between engaging in mock battles and actively not suppressing an anti-Imperial rebellion.
The same goes for a Feral or Feudal world having conflict between tribes or dynasties.

A well-armed and organised rebellion that Astartes are using as practice wouldn't stay hidden for long and the Inquisition at the very least would have be having some words about it.

Agreed, the Imperium has seen more than enough tiny conflicts erupt into system wide uprisings that they wouldn't want to openly prolong a conflict and allow the risk that it could spiral out of control.

At the same time who says that everyone engaging in a mock battle knows its a mock battle. The upper classes of a world and the Marines off-world might know its a mock-war for training but the troopers on the ground. They might have no clue. So its totally safe because both sides are loyal to the Emperor and Imperium, but they are providing 100% realistic training under supervision by being actual combatants in a controlled war.

You could have it as a ritual to join the Chapter ala the Blood Ravens' Blood Trials.

They gather the Aspirants into an area, and if they survive for so long or accomplish their goal, they are selected for possible inclusion into the chapter proper.

But with Marines as your opponents, the likelihood is very low , but possible.

 Overread wrote:

 Gert wrote:
There's a difference between engaging in mock battles and actively not suppressing an anti-Imperial rebellion.
The same goes for a Feral or Feudal world having conflict between tribes or dynasties.

A well-armed and organised rebellion that Astartes are using as practice wouldn't stay hidden for long and the Inquisition at the very least would have be having some words about it.

Agreed, the Imperium has seen more than enough tiny conflicts erupt into system wide uprisings that they wouldn't want to openly prolong a conflict and allow the risk that it could spiral out of control.

At the same time who says that everyone engaging in a mock battle knows its a mock battle. The upper classes of a world and the Marines off-world might know its a mock-war for training but the troopers on the ground. They might have no clue. So its totally safe because both sides are loyal to the Emperor and Imperium, but they are providing 100% realistic training under supervision by being actual combatants in a controlled war.

Then the only realisitic option is to write the scenario where the marines currently landside simply do not have the resources to crush it. And because of 'outside committments', ie, fall of Cadia, Idomitus, the great rift, there are no imperial reinforcements available to deal with the rebellion. Or alternatively, i could write it so that the IoM is reclaiming the planet, but are bogged down with no additional support available

For me the main disparity is that in the world of fluff 3 marines would go through a whole company of baseline human troopers in just a few minutes, rather than needing to sit behind cover plinking away at them one squad at a time. Your premise is fine I. Concept, it maybe needs a bit more on the threat side to keep the marines bunkered up rather than tearing the heretics a new one.

Depends on the fluff, a platoon of Guardsmen fron a not-famous regiment killed at least three Emperor's Children with some good positioning of their melta weapons

 Bobthehero wrote:
Depends on the fluff, a platoon of Guardsmen fron a not-famous regiment killed at least three Emperor's Children with some good positioning of their melta weapons

I don't particularly go for the 'god-marine' schtick because fundamentally i'm writing for tabletop and i try not to have the PCs be massively overpowered, but basically these renegades are being run as karskin local equivalents (carapace+hotshots,), whilst the marines.... are just generic firstborners bolter marines who happen to be fighting from a sangar.

Of course, i also don't intend for the PCs to get slotted in their first fire fight so i dooo need to make sure the enemy guardsmen aren't toooooo lethal.

As a real world comparison, if you wanted live fire training just think of all the areas you could visit that have been fighting for decades on our world. An Imperial world can have whole continents fighting and not care as long as the tithe is paid.