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While I’m new to 40k as a game, I’ve been an avid follower of its lore for almost a decade. I’ve always been interested in the Dark Age of Technology, and one of the first stories to really hook me was “Man of Iron” by Guy Haley.

When the Leagues of Votann were introduced they immediately caught my eye. Since their addition, I’ve seen some people complain that like the T’au they are too ‘good’ to be part of the 40k grim-dark milieu, but I’m not sure I necessarily agree with that. Yes, they’re resistant to Chaos and the Warp because they don’t ‘shine’ very strongly within the Immaterium, but if you consider their ‘business practices’ I’d say they’re about as good as your typical turn-of-the-last-century robber baron (or, at least your stereotypical gold prospector).

That they descend from the Long March vessels send out during Mankind’s first empire building stage, and that their relationships with the Votann and the inclusion of the ironkin as equal partners in their society I find especially intriguing.

But it’s that relationship between the kin clones and the Ancestor Cores as powerful AIs which I think also provides some of that grim-dark 40k is known for if you scratch under the surface.

You see, I think the Leagues of Votann embody the end result of humanity if it had LOST the Cybernetic Revolt and was enslaved by the AI/Men of Iron.

Over tens of thousands of years, the AI Votann have essentially evolved their ideal human species through the use of clones and an artificial society revolving around them–the Ancestor Cores–in such a manner that they would never need to worry about becoming enslaved to humanity again. As an added touch of authoritarianism, the integration of the ironkin onto their society ensures the Votann always have loyal artificially intelligent entities to keep tabs on the kin.

Of course, the entire system is on the verge of collapse, primarily because the society the Votann set up, in which they are revered and ‘fed’ by information and experience from both the ironkin and fleshkin (sic) is now drowning them in data–surely much of it duplicated. If 100 kin experience the same event, the Votann would upload 100 copies of what is essentially the same experience. Writ large, this is what is ultimately killing the Votann.

Now I’m not suggesting that the kin are ACTUALLY enslaved by the Votann–I see it more as a symbiotic relationship in which the Votann manipulated the Long March project in such a way so as to ensure their survival–including against a human revolt. I imagine they were something along the lines as the Stable, or perhaps Ultimate factions of the TechnoCore in Dan Simmons’ Hyperion Cantos.

So are the Leagues of Votann too ‘good’ to be part of the 40k universe? Based on my thoughts outlined above I’d say no.

Unless a faction is covered in skulls and spikey bits it's "too good aligned" to be in 40k.

If Craftworlds hadn't been one of the original factions, the same people would say the same things about them.

 Gert wrote:
Unless a faction is covered in skulls and spikey bits it's "too good aligned" to be in 40k.

If Craftworlds hadn't been one of the original factions, the same people would say the same things about them.

And even for them, in the Designer’s notes for the 3rd Ed Codex, Gav Thorpe went on a rant about people perceiving them as good aligned and how he made it his mission to darken them up to break that.

That's mostly down to GW's obsession with imperial and marine armies.

When two thirds of your game are just variations on a single faction's theme, well yeah most people are only seeing 40k through the grim dark lens of the imperium, or naughty imperium bois.

I always get a little confused by the references to A.I. mixed with the Long March ships, which were sent out in the later parts of the Age of Strife by Martian Tech-Priests who were vigilant in their opposition to A.I. (which had almost destroyed humanity at the dawn of the Age of Strife) to expand their influence.

Some worlds rich in Mineral wealth would become Forge Worlds, while those which would make excellent colonies to support the Forge Worlds would become Knight Worlds.

[Source: Adeptus Titanicus: The Horus Heresy, pp. 9-10)

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I always get a little confused by the references to A.I. mixed with the Long March ships, which were sent out in the later parts of the Age of Strife by Martian Tech-Priests who were vigilant in their opposition to A.I. (which had almost destroyed humanity at the dawn of the Age of Strife) to expand their influence.

Some worlds rich in Mineral wealth would become Forge Worlds, while those which would make excellent colonies to support the Forge Worlds would become Knight Worlds.

[Source: Adeptus Titanicus: The Horus Heresy, pp. 9-10)

You have things the wrong way around. These ships were sent out during the DAOT, so between M.15 - M.25. That was before the Cybernetic Revolt which happened during the Age of Strife, which began after M.25..

The 'long march' mentioned in the Titanicus rulebook is a different one to this.

So there where two Long Marches? One involving Votann pre-age of Strife and a second Long March that would lead to Forge-Worlds and Knight Worlds...

That seems odd.

There is also the Long March on Terra by the forces of the Warmaster during the Heresy.

It's a catchy name, you're reading into it too much.

The Kin are a very interesting race.

Ultimately, they’re a slave species. Sent out from ancient Earth to mine the galactic core, their Votann ensuring they’re adapted to the task at hand. But…not just physically. Their desire to mine and make and exploit all resources they can is hard baked into them. Which, kinda like Orks, has created a horrific Utopian Society.

Ultimately, they lack agency. They do what they do because they’re genetically designed not just to do it, but to want to do it. Even if you could sit them down, and absolutely prove they’ve been nothing but slaves for who knows how long? That same genetic imperative would stop them from caring, or desiring change.

That’s…..really grim.

Then there’s the “look buddy, we’re being nice about this. But whether you nick off or not? We are still mining your planet” approach to resource gathering.

OP has an interesting thought on them being tools of the Votann, and that may be true,

However, the Squats of Necromunda have long since lost their Votann, and yet continue to fulfil their programming, despite reproducing the natural way. So it can’t be the whole of the truth in and of itself.

One point which I have wondered about is how their original masters meant to take delivery of all the mined and harvested resources. Specific drop off points at certain times? Secret passwords genetically coded into them?

The latter would offer the possibility that somebody could find out what the secret password is and then the Kin (or at least a specific group of them) might find themselves with an irresistible urge to hand over all their wealth and resources to this person. What other influence could such a password (or others like it) have? A hardline Monodominant of the Inquisition might tell these Kin to self-destruct themselves, either directly or by engaging in hopeless tasks like attacking a massive hive fleet.

We have to assume there was some arrangement. Potentially sent via drone courier or similar to wherever needed it. It wouldn’t necessarily be sent back to Earth.

We’re not even sure how unified Earth was at that time. One could read the Kin background as their creators being Mega Corporations

I think the Votann and Tau are dystopian societies but they are preferable to the imperium of man, by a long shot. They are stable and individual safety on a day to day basis seems to be assured and the citizenry are not treated like cattle or worse.

But the fact that such authoritarian societies seem utopian compared to the IOM adds to the grimdark. Because the IOM exists on the principle that it is under constant attack so it must be a constant engine of war and the sacrifice of a million people for the imperium is nothing to complain about. And if the engine stops for even a moment then all humanity is doomed.

But there are examples out there of another way, a better way, but most humans will be totally blind to it because their only contact with votann and tau will be on the battlefield.

The Interex offered Horus another example of how humans could exists but at the first hurdle it descended into all out war.

Humanity is trapped in its own crab bucket and even if another group of people tried to help them they would just be rewarded with violence

They’re an interesting comparison to Orks.

Both societies are, by their own metrics, pretty utopian. But only because both species are essentially programmed that way. And both experience only very low numbers of outright deviants. And the overall mechanism from that is the same - hefty genetic programming, albeit seemingly more advanced for Orks, as even a single Boy can spawn an entire Orky Society, whether or not he’s living or dead.

Where the Kin had the Men of Gold, Orks have the Brainboyz. Both presumably long extinct architects of their race.

Going down that Rabbit Hole, the Brainboyz might well have ended up Davrosing themselves - creating a warrior race where Might Makes Right, and losing all control to said species, and being wiped out for their efforts, leaving the warrior race to just kick about the galaxy getting into as many fights as they can.

But are they truly healthy societies? Kinda yes, but the total lack of free will and self determination doesn’t sit right with me.