Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was wondering if there was ever any lore or stories in regard to cults that didn’t end up getting devoured by the tyranids and or just wanted to live and survive?

I believe in the codex there are several very large named cults that have not been devoured and are expanding.

Basically a cult just keeps growing if it doesn't get eaten. Spreading to new worlds; gaining more systems; more military power and so on and so forth. The larger the Cult the more likely a hive fleet comes calling; but if one doesn't come the Cult just continues to infest its host species and grow.



Also don't forget the large majority of any Cult are lower tier people - who won't have full Tyranid infection (or indeed any infection at some stages and sizes of cult). So they can often either be indoctrinated to the point where they do want to be devoured; or they can suddenly have a big change of heart.

Of course by that stage the Cult has crippled the space defences; torn the local defences apart; opened the doors and basically even though they might change sides and fight back; the cult has done its work at weakening the world/system to invasion.

Has there been any stories of the Cults changing their minds and fighting the tyranids?

Kind of?

Any Purestrains, including the Patriarch, come back under the sway of the Hive Mind, and will treat the Cult members as any old civilian. I’m not sure if that applies to Hybrids.

And it’s been known for a well established cult to send elements off to new worlds when a Hive Fleet draws near.

At the end of Day of Ascension by Adrian Tchaikovsky a few of the gene stealer cultists got to travel to other planets to spread the word...but the rest of them got eaten.

All of the main ones (Pauper Princes or Rusted Claw) are all continuing offshoots of their original Cults.

I want to see Hive Fleet wars, Tyranids against tyranids, cults against cults!

If the nids represent ultimate Darwinism, it would sound logical that hive fleets would also battle each other for survival, no? Just cuz we haven't heard of it doesnt mean it doesnt exist (outside the tabletop)

As for GSC being "good", they can be every bit as good/righteous as the IoM, ie. treating their followers as an expendable resource

If you want to see just how good GSC are, go watch HBO's the Penguin now there's a top bloke amirite!

Also probably worth chipping in that the Cult, until it’s dinner time, really looks after its own. Right little socialist combine, getting food, medical care etc beyond what the average Imperial Citizen might experience in their lifetime.

So in a sense, all GSC are Good Cults. And as the Day of Ascension might not arrive for many generations, for the generations in between, it’s a pretty good deal.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Also probably worth chipping in that the Cult, until it’s dinner time, really looks after its own. Right little socialist combine, getting food, medical care etc beyond what the average Imperial Citizen might experience in their lifetime.

So in a sense, all GSC are Good Cults. And as the Day of Ascension might not arrive for many generations, for the generations in between, it’s a pretty good deal.

Yeah this! A lot of cultists in many cults aren't even infected by a genestealer, they've joined because the cult offers a much better standard of living relative to what they would have available otherwise. A lot wouldn't even know what a genestealer is, so its possible that some of these disenfranchised citizens could ultimately come to regret their decisions when the veil is lifted.

Does not mean the imperials will be any more lenient to them however.

"The only good Genestealer Cult is a thoroughly purged Genestealer Cult."
- Statement from Inquisitors of the Ordos Xenos and Hereticus

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Also probably worth chipping in that the Cult, until it’s dinner time, really looks after its own. Right little socialist combine, getting food, medical care etc beyond what the average Imperial Citizen might experience in their lifetime.

So in a sense, all GSC are Good Cults. And as the Day of Ascension might not arrive for many generations, for the generations in between, it’s a pretty good deal.

Not necessarily better quality of life. It depends on what suits the cult's purposes. On Ichar IV, the cult engaged in charitable work as a front, and so those it engaged with would have felt it to give them a better quality of life compared to the existing slum hellhole life in the underhive.

However, other cults instead might work their members to the bone on even more subsistence rations in order to show themselves good little Imperial citizens and keep Imperial attention away or to get their model workers shipped off-world to spread the infection.

The Hybrids tend to cover that, being hardier than a standard human, their alien biology enabling them to work harder for longer.

Those infected or just sort of associates not so much. Those are the ones you want to keep sweet, and you can take your time infecting them, ensuring ever more humans are brought into the fold, swelling the number of Hybrids that are born.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Kind of?

Any Purestrains, including the Patriarch, come back under the sway of the Hive Mind, and will treat the Cult members as any old civilian. I’m not sure if that applies to Hybrids.

And it’s been known for a well established cult to send elements off to new worlds when a Hive Fleet draws near.

According to the Final Day detachment lore text.

Every Genestealer Cultist wishes to witness the Star Children’s arrival and ascend to join them in blessed oneness. They believe this will be a transcendent experience, a sublime reward for their devotion. The reality is altogether more hideous. As the Tyranids approach through the void, the utterly alien Hive Mind assimilates the more nuanced Broodmind of the cult. Many faithful die from psionic shock. Others are freed from Tyranid mind control only to go mad with horror as the truth is revealed. The rest become short-lived puppets for the first waves of Tyranid vanguard organisms descending on their world. Exerting its will to make them fight harder and move faster, the Hive Mind swiftly burns out these surviving faithful, harvesting each flicker of bioenergy to reinvigorate its more valuable Tyranid organisms.

Ultimately different Cults will operate and respond differently to their unique individuals and situation and how long and large they grow.

Ultimately the goal of a cult is twofold

1) Spread itself as wide and as far as possible

2) Weaken where they are to Tyranid invasion.



So I could well see a powerful Cult perhaps create quite a nice core world to live on. It doesn't really have to produce vast munitions or a powerful war machine so long as its able to expand or keep that war engine on the borders of its territory. Meanwhile the interior being nice and peaceful and calm is a boon to the Tyranids. Fewer defenders, peaceful people not used to warfare etc....


So yes the Cult could well present a much better life in the short term than what the Imperium offers. Because ultimately the Cult isn't thinking nor focused on long term survival - it just needs to spread, expand and weaken.

I’d argue a truly successful Cult is one that’s managed to spread its tendrils so far, that when the day comes, there’s barely any fighting.

That of course takes time. So for those established on worlds already in the path of the Hive Fleets, they may simply not have enough time for a top to toe comprehensive infiltration.

But, let’s say a Genestealer stowed away on a ship which during a warp journey, is flung right across the other side of the Galaxy, somewhere with no significant Hive Fleet presence.

If it can avoid detection, who knows how many local worlds it might spread to? In theory, given time and assuming interplanetary travel, there’s very little to stop a Cult pre-pacifying an entire system or sub-sector.

Despite the Imperium’s grand paranoia, we know from Necromunda that provided your tithe is met in full and on time? Nobody really cares all that much,

I guess one trick on a horrendously infested world (which could extend to every human, again given enough time) would be not being too efficient. A Hive or Industrial World with no Gang activity just ain’t normal. Any world without at least some subversive elements is, again, just not normal.

Nor can you simply eat every Inquisitor or other off-world/out of system Nosey Parker. That sort of thing will be noticed, sooner or later.

 tauist wrote:
I want to see Hive Fleet wars, Tyranids against tyranids, cults against cults!

If the nids represent ultimate Darwinism, it would sound logical that hive fleets would also battle each other for survival, no? Just cuz we haven't heard of it doesnt mean it doesnt exist (outside the tabletop)

As for GSC being "good", they can be every bit as good/righteous as the IoM, ie. treating their followers as an expendable resource

If you want to see just how good GSC are, go watch HBO's the Penguin now there's a top bloke amirite!

Pretty sure there's a snippet in one of the old 'nid codices about how hive fleets will sometimes skirmish so that the fleets can try out different biomorphs on eachother/themselves (depending on how separate you think the hive minds of various fleets are). Sort of the tyranid equivalent of the fleets going, "Look at this cool DNA I found!" to eachother. And then they eat eachother to pass the genetic knowledge around and make even more gnarly biomorphs ala Valador.

As for cults fighting, it seems like it should happen from time to time. I would think that such conflicts would tend to be kind of short-lived though. If a ship full of cultists show up on a planet that already has a thriving cult, then the "home team" is probably going to have significantly more numbers, knowledge, and resources to draw upon. I feel like you'd need to be on like, an ag-world or some other scarcely populated planet to have a ship's worth of refugees be a real threat.

Also, even if they're from different fleets, genestealers presumably aren't genetically predisposed to challenge eachother for turf. They're ultimately all part of the same species/hive mind. If a transplant cult showed up and realized the planet was already taken, they might just start trying to leave and try again elsewhere. Or maybe even coordinate/cooperate with the local cult. Which could be an interesting bit of culture/religion clash in a not necessarily violent kind of way.