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So personally i don't like what they did with poison. Basically on a 6 to hit it's a normal to wound roll but with a +2 modifier now. This usually means poison needs decent strength to have more reliable wounding chance vs high toughness models or it needs about twice as many attacks/shots for the same damage potential.

I'm also sorta unhappy about the nerfs to high level wizards. If i use a lore familiar to get the spells i want then what use is a level 4 wizard vs a level 3 one anymore if i don't want a bunch of spells. Low level wizards did need somewhat of a boost however but i think a lot of the Legends armies didn't get updated spell casting results (even though everything else did).

It basically shot skaven in both feet honestly. Not to mention the real problem characters on monsters/chariots has not been toned down whatsoever.

At least people trying to go 10 or 20 wide with models has been toned down with the new rules. Anybody that abused that in the past needed to be shut down hard.

Rank and file units got a buff but for horde armies like skaven we didn't really shine in melee anyway so it was a waste. Not only that but frenzy and flails only work well on the charge now so censer bearers became even more trash. Then again the censer profile is outdated so maybe we can sorta still work with it but for most intents and purposes it's supposed to mostly be a flail.

Anyway what do you all think? I can't speak for all the other armies this all effects.

As a new Old World player with an Empire of Man army I am happy with the 1.5 changes. I started in April, so my experience is limited. I like that infantry are generally buffed. I faced the Night Goblin “poison block” of 90 short bows with the banner that granted poison along with the old Travel the Mystical Pathways right before the 1.5 nerf and I will not miss them!

My mages did take a nerf, but they are still playable. I like that super characters are reigned-in.

I am glad that they made adjustments along with the Matched Play Guide, but I hope they avoid making too many regular updates!

Agreed - one major change in 18 months is great. Stability is what we want - far cry from what everyone over in 40k and AoS still are experiencing.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
As a new Old World player with an Empire of Man army I am happy with the 1.5 changes. I started in April, so my experience is limited. I like that infantry are generally buffed. I faced the Night Goblin “poison block” of 90 short bows with the banner that granted poison along with the old Travel the Mystical Pathways right before the 1.5 nerf and I will not miss them!

My mages did take a nerf, but they are still playable. I like that super characters are reigned-in.

I am glad that they made adjustments along with the Matched Play Guide, but I hope they avoid making too many regular updates!

The thing is 30 gutter runners with poisoned shooting costs like 500 pts or more. That's a lot for 60 poisoned shots. Poison is fine vs normal monsters but once armor or character on monster mounts start coming around you need this. Believe me after dealing with the re-roll successful wounds to tomb king character on bone dragon with all these armor, regen and ward buffs and a freaking weapon that heals the whole unit it just gets to you even with the Plague of Rust spell.

I wouldn't mind mages taking a nerf esp. with warpstone tokens being spammed on a grey seer on a screaming bell. However magic resistance to my knowledge wasn't changed (not a huge deal) and legacy armies like skaven didn't get a reduction in cast results needed for skaven specialty signature spells. Rolling a 10+ on for a level 4 being 2+8 isn't always super easy without warpstone token chugging.

I suppose my most major issue is skaven already had a really restricted list even compared to the new army list restrictions in the Matched Play Guide. 2 units of jezzails max in 2,000 pts and only one unit per warlock which is also capped at 1 per 1,000 pts and i'm already heavily capped about which units i can take if i do jezzails. I can't take an assassin or plague priest if i want a warlock, jezzails, globadiers and a bunch of warlock/skryre units and then it locks me out of all the plague monk units. I suppose if anything at least the new Matched Play Guide will restrict my opponent almost as much as it does me.

I still think characters on monster or chariot mounts are still way too powerful however. Nothing good about a character on a flying monster that you can only nerf for one turn max and then it can just use all this awesome equipment to destroy you and skaven already only had maybe jezzails, magic and gutter runners to stop those stupid things.

Sadly it's the first nail in the Legacy coffin.

The poison one I think was badly handled. They probably should have given up on having something on a 6 to hit and just made it a blanket +1 to wound or something like that. (That is, if nerfing the problem poison units directly wasn't an option; the preferred option is keep poison as it was and just nerf those unit's capability with poison in some way).

Im impressed with the 1.5 errata - Gives massed infantry the edge

i learned early on , if Empire state troopers have any chance of survival you must have a unit strength of 30 or dont bother

But with the new updates

Empire state trooper are now a worth while option now (but still need 30 in a unit) 5 in the front rank & 6 ranks deep
3 x Ranks
1 x Hoard
1 x Mass infantry
1x Standard
1x Close order ........... 7 - Combat resolution before you start

gives you a fighting chance before you start

 rockgod2304 wrote:
Im impressed with the 1.5 errata - Gives massed infantry the edge

i learned early on , if Empire state troopers have any chance of survival you must have a unit strength of 30 or dont bother

But with the new updates

Empire state trooper are now a worth while option now (but still need 30 in a unit) 5 in the front rank & 6 ranks deep
3 x Ranks
1 x Hoard
1 x Mass infantry
1x Standard
1x Close order ........... 7 - Combat resolution before you start

gives you a fighting chance before you start

I’ve been running a unit of 30 Veteran State Troops with the Griffon Banner. With Horde that gives 7 static Combat Resolution, to which I add a BSB with the War Banner to get to 9 static combat resolution plus Close Order and likely Outnumber for 11 Static Combat Res. Rolled over several scary enemy units that way, but have also met some Unbreakable Giants and such that have been a real problem.

Big blocks of infantry are back.

 rockgod2304 wrote:
Empire state trooper are now a worth while option now (but still need 30 in a unit) 5 in the front rank & 6 ranks deep

5 wide and 6 deep makes this a unit in Marching Column and can not claim a rank bonus.

The whole idea still works with a unit 6 wide and 5 deep though, but you loss a point of rank bonus a bit sooner.

 Darnok wrote:

 rockgod2304 wrote:
Empire state trooper are now a worth while option now (but still need 30 in a unit) 5 in the front rank & 6 ranks deep

5 wide and 6 deep makes this a unit in Marching Column and can not claim a rank bonus.

The whole idea still works with a unit 6 wide and 5 deep though, but you loss a point of rank bonus a bit sooner.

Oh i thought it was 4 wide for march column (min rank for close ordered troops) or is thinner than ranks deep (if so that makes sense)

Marching Column is more files than ranks.

I run my big brick of Vet State Troops in a six wide and five deep formation.

This way I can take a few casualties before losing my rank bonuses.