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The Drukhari as a faction split from the other Eldar upon the emergence of the Great Enemy—all the Eldar who were sheltered in the relative safety of Commorragh (and perhaps other sections of the Webway) were spared immediate soul-devouring, but gained an affliction where their soul is being slowly drained and must be refilled by feeding upon pain and fear. This implies that their differences with the other Eldar are inherent, and not just related to the path they've chosen (such as the Craftworlders vs. Exodites vs. Corsairs vs. Harlequins).

10,000 years have passed since the Fall. For a Drukhari who was born during that time, what makes them a Drukhari—i.e., an Eldar whose soul is being drained by She Who Thirsts?

Is it simply being born in Commorragh? Is it their bloodline, or the genetic material they were cloned from? Is it their upbringing or culture? Do you think there is a way for the Drukhari to beget children who lack this condition?

I'm also curious about those cases of Eldar moving in and out of Commorrite society. Yvraine is from Biel-Tan but fought in the arenas with the wyches. The Path of the Eldar trilogy, which I haven't finished, has an Incubus who renounces the ways of Commorragh. There are Drukhari who follow the Ynnari and fight alongside their Craftworlder and Harlequin brethren. Is there a point where an Eldar can become a Drukhari, or cease to be one?

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-Guardsman- wrote:
Is it simply being born in Commorragh? Is it their bloodline, or the genetic material they were cloned from? Is it their upbringing or culture?

All of the above.

It’s hard to say.

We know that a given Eldar might move between the various societies. What I don’t think is touched upon is whether, upon leaving Commoragh, the whole soul erosion thing continues.

This may have been covered in a novel, as I’ve not read many Eldar centric BL offerings.

But, I guess it could be argued that life in Commoragh, being positioned in the Webway and so kinda closer to The Warp? That is what’s allowing Slaanesh to slowly, bit by bit, consume the Eldar souls.

Come out of Commoragh, and that grip is loosened. Like all Eldar you’re still ultimately destined for Slaanesh’s gullet. But there sufficient space between you in realspace that the erosion is stopped entirely, or at least slowed?

It could also be tied to your activities. The Dark Eldar lifestyle is defined by Excess, and self interest. A Craftworlder’s life is defined by Discipline, and outside of Exarchs not pursuing a single thing to the point of obsession. So the Commorite lifestyle is attracting Slaanesh’s attention more than the Craftworld lifestyle.

It seems to be tied to lifestyle rather than genetics.

In Andy Chambers Dark Eldar trilogy, there is an former Craftworlder, now Outcast, that starts slipping into Dark Eldar ways and he starts noticing the soul drain, which he does not like at all. In Gav Thorpe's Path of the Eldar trilogy, there is an Incubus that has turned Craftworlder, and he does not seem to experience any drain. The former Dark Eldar corsairs in the Voidscarred novel also do not seem to experience the soul draining. Being around Yvraine, the leader of the Ynnari, also seems to halt the soul drain at least temporarily. The recent Lelith novel showed Lelith re-experiencing it when she leaves Yvraine and goes back to Commorragh.

It seems a little contrived that they get soul drain when they act or think dark eldary. I'm trying to figure out how the corsairs are able to act piratical and indulge their pleasures in a way slannesh won't drain them, but as soon as they do it dark eldar style suddenly slannesh is turned onto them.

IMO it only makes sense if the drain stops when they put on a soul stone, as that's the only thing that gives their soul protection from slannesh. That or there is a darker pact, or particular effect unique to commoragh and once you're immersed in it you get tethered to slannesh somehow.

It seems evident that all eldar should be getting drained by slannesh and the soul stone acts as a circuit breaker to prevent that. A psychic prophylactic... which cegorach and ynnead provide for their followers in proxy of a soul stone.


Otherwise there doesn't seem any logic behind it. They can choose to change lifestyle and sometimes do so, and that stops the drain.

But the dark eldar are drained continuously whether they're asleep or reading a book. Unless gw want to claim that there's some psychologically unique way that dark eldar think 100% of the time and 'torture' books when they read them, it doesn't really make sense. And this hypothetical is also highly contrived as well, which says to me there aren't any sensible options beyond 'all eldar are drained, but the DE use torture to stop it rather than soulstones'.

On the book analogy? Could be what the book is about.

A dry, uninteresting autobiography of someone you can’t stand probably isn’t going to cause the same emotional reaction as say, something a bit racy. Or very racy.

The trap of the Dark Eldar may be they need to indulge in excess to regenerate their souls, whilst that same excess allows or speeds up the degradation. And so round and round and round they go, seeking ever greater experience. Which to be honest is a pretty good analogy for addiction.

And like an addiction? One of the best and most reliable ways to break it is to remove yourself from your usual surroundings. Not only to escape the situation that lead you to drink or drugs, but to also remove you from your usual avenues - particularly for illicit substances. It’s much harder to get your fix if you don’t know who the local dealers are, and so your willpower is better supported.

 Hellebore wrote:
It seems a little contrived that they get soul drain when they act or think dark eldary. I'm trying to figure out how the corsairs are able to act piratical and indulge their pleasures in a way slannesh won't drain them, but as soon as they do it dark eldar style suddenly slannesh is turned onto them.

IMO it only makes sense if the drain stops when they put on a soul stone, as that's the only thing that gives their soul protection from slannesh. That or there is a darker pact, or particular effect unique to commoragh and once you're immersed in it you get tethered to slannesh somehow.

It seems evident that all eldar should be getting drained by slannesh and the soul stone acts as a circuit breaker to prevent that. A psychic prophylactic... which cegorach and ynnead provide for their followers in proxy of a soul stone.


Otherwise there doesn't seem any logic behind it. They can choose to change lifestyle and sometimes do so, and that stops the drain.

But the dark eldar are drained continuously whether they're asleep or reading a book. Unless gw want to claim that there's some psychologically unique way that dark eldar think 100% of the time and 'torture' books when they read them, it doesn't really make sense. And this hypothetical is also highly contrived as well, which says to me there aren't any sensible options beyond 'all eldar are drained, but the DE use torture to stop it rather than soulstones'.

It does seem to be the soul stone (or the intervention of a god for Harlies/Ynnari). In the Voidscarred book the ex Wych is rocking a soul stone to avoid the drain and the ex incubus in Path of the Warrior has one as well.

DE don’t use them due to the vulnerability it puts you at, plus iirc too extreme behaviour disharmonies them so they don’t work properly.

There is a difference in intensity/extremity between corsairs and the Dark Eldar and this too may account for why the corsairs don't experience the draining. We know that in 40K, there is the Law of Contagion (i.e. like attracts like). Acts and behavior matching a Chaos god attracts their attention. So maybe the long term excesses of a Dark Eldar's behavior is enough to cross a threshold where they attract enough of Slaanesh's attention (or otherwise attune themselves to Slaanesh) to cause the soul draining, and one who moves away from that behavior eventually fades from Slaanesh's attention so the soul drain gets better or ceases. We know that the use of soulstones for trapping deceased souls was invented only after the Fall (according to the Iyanden supplement, it was first done by Iyanden), yet those early Craftworlders before this invention did not apparently experience any soul drain.

In Voidscarred a former Craftworld admiral viewing a corsair baron's reception room notes how a Craftworld admiral might have had austere sculptures and meditation pools of water. Instead he sees sensual sculptures and pools/fountains of wine. When he comments on this to a former Dark Eldar corsair, she snorts and says that in Commorragh the sculptures would have been of living flesh or if not moving, victims of the glass plague, and the fountains would have been of blood.

It would mean that the DE don't actually have to leave the way of life to avoid the soul drain, they just have to stop every now and then. you could live in DE society and never do any heinous things, but otherwise enjoy the lifestyle. It seems to me that the soul drain being a voluntary thing makes it hard to countenance that the whole society would continue to act at the threshold level, when they could act below it and still enjoy their lifestyle without needing to take torture slaves.

Seems like a grey area. It would also mean that the children aren't born being soul drained, which means there no impetus for them to start torturing. Given that they have to be trained to enjoy the behaviour, if there's no from birth desperation to avoid Slannesh because they've yet to threshold themselves, then they'd never need to start.

 Hellebore wrote:
It would mean that the DE don't actually have to leave the way of life to avoid the soul drain, they just have to stop every now and then. you could live in DE society and never do any heinous things, but otherwise enjoy the lifestyle. It seems to me that the soul drain being a voluntary thing makes it hard to countenance that the whole society would continue to act at the threshold level, when they could act below it and still enjoy their lifestyle without needing to take torture slaves.

Seems like a grey area. It would also mean that the children aren't born being soul drained, which means there no impetus for them to start torturing. Given that they have to be trained to enjoy the behaviour, if there's no from birth desperation to avoid Slannesh because they've yet to threshold themselves, then they'd never need to start.

I don't think it's so easy for them to stop once they start, once they have done it long enough. Feeding off the pain of others is apparently pleasurable (from the very first depiction of this in the 3rd edition Dark Eldar Codex), so it may be inherently addictive, just like how stimulants on a biological level make everyone feel energized and high rather it than a learned pleasure. The additional psychic energy of the absorbed pain seems to act like a psychic stimulant.

The soul drain does seem to get worse with age (or perhaps it is with the duration of the Dark Eldar behavior). In the first 3rd edition Dark Eldar Codex, the old Archon says the Thirst has only a shallow hold on the younger Dracon.

The whole lifestyle of Commorragh probably weeds out at a very early age those that don't engage in the Dark Eldar behavior. Those that do become addicted and develop the thirst, and once they do if they don't get their fix, they become one of the Parched (and weak, and less likely to survive). In the Voidscarred book, a former Dark Eldar corsair is asked why she left and she said it was because the Dark Eldar think themselves free but are slaves to their own desires and the need to stave off the soul draining. Every action was bent towards how is this beneficial for me (either by being pleasurable or advancing their interests), and there was either no time to enjoy quieter pursuits (which in her case meant looking at scenes of natural beauty for extended time) or this would be seen as weakness and vulnerability, inviting others to attack.

The whole soul draining thing and thirst is an analogy to addiction and withdrawal. The use of the drug (feeding off others' pain) is pleasurable but also becomes necessary to feel normal, otherwise they go into withdrawal (becoming the Parched). There is also the phenomenon of tolerance. Over time, it takes more and more to get the same effect, which is why the oldest Haemonculi cannot rejuvenate despite being surrounded by the pain and agony of others. It no longer becomes about pleasure but just survival as some of these require the constant presence of a discharging Cronos Engine to avoid crumbling to dust from the soul draining.

Kicking the habit would mean having to change their long term behavior, but most Dark Eldar (and their whole society) want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to avoid the soul draining, but without really changing their ways. Their whole philosophy is one of megalomania. Restraint and holding back is seen as weak. Their view is the strong do what they want whenever they want. For them, part of this involves exhibiting dominance over others, and what better way to show dominance than by inflicting pain whether physical or psychological? The problem is this view is so engrained (and to a lesser extent in corsair society) that those on top may have to perform and act that way regardless of how they might want or feel.

Iracundus is on the ball this thread. Well said.

I *do* think the soulstones are a factor here. My understanding is that the stones are the thing that prevents craftworlders and corsairs from being passively drained the same way drukhari are. The lifestyle differences probably help craftworlders not get drained as fast, but my understanding is that the stones are what keeps the craftworlders from being drained at all. However, stones require attunement, and that attunement isn't possible for those who are still acting in a drukhkari-esque fashion.

Which means a hypothetical drukhari who dips in and out of the more extreme versions of the lifestyle would still be getting drained unless they attuned to a stone, and attuning to a stone requires that they not be particularly close to the drukhari lifestyle.

So a hypothetical space elf who was born into something like the corsair lifestyle, didn't have a stone, but also wasn't feeding on pain would be steadily drained to death by Slaanesh.

I'm not sure if corsairs hailing from Commorragh are entirely free of the soul drain. My understanding was that they still had to feed on pain but that some of them might have a lower "tolerance"/need meaning they could get away with just topping themselves off during battles and maybe torturing the occassional captured prisoner. Corsairs still tend to spend a lot of time in the webway, so the soul drain would be slowed more often than not just like it is for drukhari.

On top of all this, there's also the psychic stunting and physical differences to consider. Drukkhari psychic ability is stunted compared to other space elves, but apparently this is more a matter of atrophy than lack of potential. They can "build up psychic muscle" with practice and effort if they want to.

On the flip-side, Lelith claims in QoK that drukhari tend to be more physically powerful than non-drukhari and speculates it's part of the same transition that caused their powers to be atrophied; the population basically spending their build points on physical attributes instead of psychic ones. Lelith is physically fit enough to probably be trusted to make observations about the anatomy of her fellow elves, but I wonder if this is less of a conventional evolution and more just an environmental/epigenetic change. Like, maybe if the eldar body avoids flexing its psychic muscles enough, it starts passively re-allocating resources into physical fitness. Given the relatively short amount of time since the fall, this makes more sense to me than the physical differences being an "evolved" trait.

EDIT: Also, feeding on pain seems to more or less be a form of biomancy. That is, drukhari take the psychic energy from the suffering of others, and then they use that to look less old, move faster, punch harder, heal faster, etc. They're basically super-charging their biology. So maybe feeding on pain consistently is the equivalent of taking a bunch of vitamin supplements, naturally fostering more muscle growth, etc.

Another thought?

What is actually meant by soul draining? We know that the ancient Eldar were said to be functionally immortal. If their physical body perished, their soul would bathe in the energies of the warp and eventually be reborn.

But there’s nothing to say their soul didn’t continuously “leak” into the warp across that life span. It just didn’t really mean anything to them, as it was safe enough there.

So could this just be a different form of aging? Perhaps the depravity of the Dark Eldar ages them faster, so they resorted to using pain and torture of others to refresh and de-age? And so until they adopt another lifestyle they’re caught in an infinite loop of leakage and topping up.

If so, perhaps the Soul Stones/Way Stones act as an ongoing repository, somewhere else for the soul seepage to be housed? So, if a Dark Eldar starts sporting one, they’ve a chance to go Cold Turkey on the excess with relatively minimal risk?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
We do know that the Dark Eldar have an alternative to Way/Soul Stones. Basically, pay the Haemonculi whatever they ask and leave them say, your little finger.

If you get squished? That remnant serves a tether for your soul, stopping it crossing over. And exposed to the right stimulus, your entire body will regrow. I speculate that a Way/Soul Stone prevents that tether occurring, hence they’re largely eschewed. But, if you’ve left Commoragh for the long term, you may not wish to leave a body part behind, hence then adopting the Way/Soul Stones.

The feeding ability does seem to be an innate form of biomancy, only that it takes the form of passively absorbing the energy released by the pain and suffering of others, rather than drawing energy from the warp directly which is a more active psychic manipulation. We know all Eldar are innately psychic with psychic switches a part of Craftworld society even for those not walking the Path of the Seer. I think the feeding ability and the accompanying rejuvenation is so basic that it does not require psychic training. An Eldar with a shriveled soul is basically like a thirsty starving person, and they will instinctively know how to eat and drink fi suddenly surrounded by food and water. What their body then does with that nutrition is also not under conscious control. So the rejuvenation and super-charging of their biology is IMO analogous and also not fully under conscious control, but the Eldar will instinctively repair their own soul, and body (including de-aging), and then supercharge it if fully healed.

At some point though it seems age does catch up so that feeding may keep them alive but is no longer sufficient to de-age them. I view it like their souls are on a slippery slope (with the maw of Slaanesh at the bottom) and feeding enables them to climb up enough to avoid dying or becoming weak, but not enough to restore cosmetic youth. That is why the oldest Archons wear masks because they cannot feed enough fast enough to de-age anymore, though they can still stave off death. The Haemonculi have the same issue but are also beyond caring about conventional beauty. Vect seems to be the exception despite his supposed age, maybe because he has access to so many resources that he can feed so quickly and in such vast quantities that he can maintain a normal appearance.

We don't know if there are many corsairs that are born to that lifestyle. The Voidscarred novel seems to imply there are not, as there is a minor character that is the daughter of a corsair leader and others are surprised when she says she was born as a corsair. It seems most corsairs either die as a corsair or eventually return to one of the other branches of Eldar life.