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On first seeing the Tyranid Warrior models, I fell in love with them. Combined with the vast array of options for them, they seemed like such a wonderful unit. Until I tried to figure out a use for them.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could effectively use Warriors in a Tyranid army? Any flavour of army will be considered.

(I've been considering the 20pt 'Cannon Fodder' warrior with ST and Spinefists as a countercharge unit, or the 29pt warrior with twinlinked devourers, +1BS and Extended Carapace (with 1 Barbed Strangler in the squad), but that's the best I can find).

Thanks for any help.

When I use warriors, I go ST + RC, +I +Sv, around 30 pts. Rending claws are really the only good weapon you can give them, init 5 really helps against marines, and 4+ Sv means that they dont get wiped out by a couple of guys with bolters. They just suck at shooting. They seem to work best as gaunt mopup: tie up a unit with gaunts, and hold them there until the warriors can get in and kill them with rending attacks. Now that they can survive a lascannon shot, they actually have a chance of making it into combat.

i think the warriors are probably the best unit in a tyranid army.

 

the best way to field them is to play to thier strengths which is CC

with the proper upgrades you have a S5 creature that goes at I5 with a +1 S bio plasma shot that goes at I10 and hits skimmers on 4+ plus it has rending, leaping a 4+ armour save and is a synapse creature with 2 wounds so it cannot be auto killed.

 

i made a list that fielded 2 squads of 8 for the 2HQs

3 squds of 8 for the 3 elites

3 zoanthropes for some tank killing and shooting

some  raveners to get there fast and tie up some shooty units while your warriors close

and 2 squads of rippes to fill the troop requirements

and it all fits in an 1850 tournament sized list.

i call it the anti godzilla strike force nid list you only have like 50 models but you have the equivalent of 100+ wounds on the table and a nigh fearless army.

 

it is the way i would field a nid army if i played them.

If you're going to use them, the best config I've gotten has been either ST/RC or ST/ST, with +I, +SV, and if I've the points, venom sacs. The sheer level of attacks (especially with 2 pairs of talons) at such a high initiative means you'll probably ginsu almost anything in close combat before they can strike. Only times it's not worked out was a game where I put them on the board for synapse purposes more than combat, but ended up needing them to try to take out a Seer Council. They did fine against the Warlocks, but the farseer ate them for breakfast.

Firstly, thanks for all the replies!

I'm reassured to hear that people are getting good use out of them, but I am slightly worried that pure close combat warriors won't have enough speed to get to fights if the enemy camps in his deployment zone (4th turn charge I think, by my numbers). Any suggestions on how to counter a camping enemy?

I must admit that mughi3's list sounds fun to build and play, and using bioplasma to knock down skimmers is a new trick to me .

If you are going to use them with rending do not use +1s. You are relying on the rending and can save yourself some points. Rend, Tal, +1sv, +1i is the way to go. Leaping if you have the points.

29pts each with nothing but Carapace, Enhanced Senses and tl devourers.

Actually more powerful shooters than the elite fexs against T2,3,4 however they do not live as long, nor do they scare skimmers or tanks.

Rend, Tal, +1sv, +1init, Leaping if you want CC. They work well enough together though stealers might just work better than the CC ones as you wont need much synapse with all the shooty warriors running around.

Won a tourny with a shooty warrior/stealer list a while back, antitank is the weakness though so through in a few sniperfexs and your golden.

Posted By vsurma on 07/28/2006 12:33 PM
29pts each with nothing but Carapace, Enhanced Senses and tl devourers.

Actually more powerful shooters than the elite fexs against T2,3,4 however they do not live as long, nor do they scare skimmers or tanks.

Rend, Tal, +1sv, +1init, Leaping if you want CC. They work well enough together though stealers might just work better than the CC ones as you wont need much synapse with all the shooty warriors running around.

Won a tourny with a shooty warrior/stealer list a while back, antitank is the weakness though so through in a few sniperfexs and your golden.

Hmm.  Works well then, eh?  Did you happen to do the math on that.  Would be interesting to see how much better they did, how many you can get for the same points as the Dakkafex, and such.  They are still pretty tough, but they degrade in effectiveness as they take wounds.  Would be interesting indeed.  I'd like to see more on these guys.

Re: Speed for CC Warriors, the answer is Leaping. Won't help for crossing the table every turn, but that extra charge makes a big difference for jumping a unit.

If you are going to use them with rending do not use +1s. You are relying on the rending and can save yourself some points.

dude never just rely on the rending  rending is the added bonus. you want to make everything wound on an easier dice roll, not just the occasional rend.. S5 wounds MEQ on 3's instead of 4's, can actually hurt high toughness creatures and it makes the bio plasma capable of hurting av12. the scyting talons give you the extra attack so your looking at a base 4 attacks with bio plasma, 5 on the charge. it is worth the points to keep the strength high IMO

 

No, I think it's generally good policy to stay away from S upgrades and fancy stuff like bioplasma. Keep Warriors cheap. All the fancy upgrades don't protect them any better from HBs and other AP4 weapons. Moreover, what does most of the damage WILL be the rending.

I generally use a h2h build like vsurma's...ST, RC, leaping, carapace, adrenal glands (I).  For CoD games I drop the +1I and get flesh hooks. 

Here is some math I did a looong time ago on the power of devourers on different units.

http://forum.warpshadow.com/viewtopic.php?t=3713&highlight=power+devourers

You can clearly see that warriors do more damage against T2,3 & 4.

They also come with double the wounds than the devilfexs/dakkafexs, however they run around with T4 4+ Sv, rather than the Fexs T6, 3+ Sv.

No, there is no way to make them work.

There are two gimicks you can do with them which will seem like they work, but that will really just mean falling flat on their faces less than usual.

The first is bare bones and TL devourers. These are almost worth taking.

The second is super-tooled up and with wings. The point here is that even though they are hideously over priced, you may be able to use cover to make them effective anyway.

Beyond that, you're better taking a fex or a tyrant any time. Anybody who thinks warriors are good is either:

1) Awed by the models without regards to the rules
2) Awed by the options without regards to efficiency
3) Hasn't read the carnifex or tyrant entries
4) Stupid

Well they won't be as effective at shooting as Devilfexs nor will they be as effective in CC as genestealers BUT they DO have awsome models and synapse, paying 10% more for synapse is ok for some armies, you really are just paying for the synapse though.

Also paying a little extra to use cool models should be ok for 90% of the players out there imo as your not winning the tournaments anyway!

Coming up against HB armies will be annoying though as if you had used fexs you wouldnt care the slightest.

Going heavy on 4+ or not at all is my recommendation, the tourny I played in I faced 2 HB heavy armies on little terrain and still managed to win as I was able to tie them up fast with ravaners (well not so much tie up as destroy entire squads)

Beyond that, you're better taking a fex or a tyrant any time. Anybody who thinks warriors are good is either:

1) Awed by the models without regards to the rules
2) Awed by the options without regards to efficiency
3) Hasn't read the carnifex or tyrant entries
4) Stupid

well thats your opinion. with good table tactics, use of terrain  and proper upgrades warriors can be more effective than a couple monsterous creatures you have sunk lots of points into. it's like land raiders-cool looking, good peformance-huge points sink.

 

when i designed my list i did take into account thier rules, effieciency, fun factor and my playing style.

every army has it's strengths and weakness's and isn't always going to win. just because we prefer different options than what 99% of what everybody else has jumped on doesn't make us stupid.

yes HB armies can be a pain for a warrior heavy list but thats why it has the other units in the list to shoot at or get to and tie up said threat units to allow the warriors to do what they are designed to do-get into close combat.

 

Beyond that, you're better taking a fex or a tyrant any time. Anybody who thinks warriors are good is either:

1) Awed by the models without regards to the rules
2) Awed by the options without regards to efficiency
3) Hasn't read the carnifex or tyrant entries
4) Stupid

Or:

5) Knows what they're doing more than you

Seriously, Warriors aren't the best unit in the list, but they aren't the worst, either. What happens is that people expect them to do too much and behave like mini-Tyrants. They aren't. They aren't a replacement for Genestealers or Raveners either. But they're a solid synapse unit that can also deliver rending claws. The key is diversifying and having enough other threats in your army.

As I said in another thread, they'd be great as a move-shoot-assault option if only they didn't overpay so much for shooting.

Gorgon: Right. So basically you told me I was wrong, then agreed with everything I said.

It's a game of optimization. If you want the most optimized list possible, lose the warriors. If that don't want the most optimized list possible, why waste the time considering the possibilities?

coelomate is right on Warriors, they're almost as bad as Biovores and the Broodlord (if you plan on using him for anything other than synapse that is).

ESenses/2xDevourer Warriors are actually the only useful configuration for them, they do more wounds vs T3/T4 per point when compared to Dakkafexes so if you're lacking synapse they are a decent buy.

No configuration of HtH Warrior can beat Raveners/Genestealers in cost effectivness, speed and hitting power. If they had FoF they may be worth a look, but unfortunately thats not the case.

Pretty much the case ^^.

That said if you like the models go ahead and run the tl dev warriors or the rending/talon, init5, carapace, leaping warriors.

Depending on the opponents deployment leaping warriors are either 2nd or 3rd turn assualters, stealers are also 2nd to 3rd turn asualters, though you tend to get 2 stealers meaning 4/6 attacks for 40pts depending on whether you are charging or not, compared to the 3/4 attacks you get on a warrior for 35pts.

Still the models are possible the coolest in the army and they do provide synapse AND you can throw in a lashwhip into each unit which is great.

Gorgon: Right. So basically you told me I was wrong, then agreed with everything I said.

It's a game of optimization. If you want the most optimized list possible, lose the warriors. If that don't want the most optimized list possible, why waste the time considering the possibilities?

I didn't agree at all with what you said. What I said was that you need to diversify among RC platforms, not drop Warriors altogether. I posted all this in another thread, but I'll recap.

(Disclaimer: I'm talking about standard/balanced/horde style Tyranid armies.)

Warriors, Ravs and Genestealers all have their roles. Obviously, Genestealers are the best fighters, and Ravs are the fastest. Warriors don't fight as well as 'stealers and aren't as fast as Ravs, but they provide synapse with some shooting and/or RCs as a bonus (personally, I prefer the 38 pt. h2h build). You don't expect Warriors to do 'stealers or Ravs' jobs, but then 'stealers or Ravs don't provide synapse to Gaunt broods, either. And if you're fielding a lot of Gaunts, you need a lot of synapse.

Moreover, Warriors as Elites don't compete with 'stealers or Ravs for force org slots. Their only competition is from Dakkafexes, and while they're solid, they tend to operate better in a Godzilla list. With a horde army, you tend to tie up a lot of the best devourer targets in h2h before the Dakkafexes get to shoot much. They also don't start on the table in escalation, and Warriors are helpful in that regard too. You can certainly get some synapse by throwing down Zoeys. Problem is that Zoeys are less than "optimal" too. They take a HS slot that'd probably be better reserved for heavy weapon Carnifexes, and Warp Blast, their only offensive threat, is far from reliable. I like Psychic Scream, but it's troublesome with a horde army.

And really, regarding list optimization, here's the original poster's question: "Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could effectively use Warriors in a Tyranid army? Any flavour of army will be considered." The question went to tactics with the unit, not the overall effectiveness of the unit.

My advice for helping Warriors out is to first get some Raveners and/or 'stealers. Those are the specialized h2h units, and as such they'll also attract attention away from your Warriors. Then use the Warriors appropriately, which means use them as additional synapse that can help out in h2h or with shooting in a pinch.

Looking at it they have a ton of problems, the main one being T4 w/ a 4+ max save.  If I'm playing Marines and I see that your mass of gaunts need those warriors keeping up with them for synapse I'm going to do the smart thing and throw a Tornado or two at them and watch them die.  One Speeder Tornado will knock 3.66 wounds off a Warrior brood and going by the configs here at 38 points a model that's going to hurt, especially if you're not getting into CC on turn 2 and I'm now forcing you to throw what little shooting your list has at Landspeeders. 

The more speeders the Marine list has the worse off your Warriors are, and if you're in a scenario where you have one squad of warriors performing your Synapse duty for a big unit of Gaunts, then I'm going to throw every AP4 weapon I have at them and they will fall pretty fast to that unless you've paid out the nose for a lot of warriors.

But don't forget I'm going to use cover and area terrain for Warriors whenever possible, too. That's why I talked about not treating them like T6, 3+ save MCs. If you target my Warriors with your speeders, fine, I'll have to adjust my synapse coverage as necessary. In my movement phase I'm probably trying to ensure each unit is covered by 2 synapse units anyway. That's just part of playing a horde Tyranid list effectively. Anyway, notice that if you target my Warriors, my Genestealers and Ravs will be in prime position. Your job is to pick the right targets, my job is to make that targeting difficult. That's PLAYING the game.

Moreover, if I know you're bringing bucketloads of speeders to the table, I just go godzilla, right? If I get that draw at a tourney, that's just a bad draw. All armies have them. It doesn't make the unit worthless.

This is completely offtopic, but if someone has an "optimal" horde list that also doesn't use Warriors, maybe they should post it instead of pointing out how substandard Warriors are.

Well 2 tyrants and 3 zoans are definately your base but for a true horde that just wont cut it.

I dont see any harm in taking hte 29pts tl dev warriors, if they are indeed drawing fire then they are doing it relatively efficiently unless the shooter is a 4 HB dev squad, predator anniahlator or a speeder, speeders you want to knock down asap anyway, just make sure any speeders firing on the warriors are going to be hit by a tyrants VCs the turn afer, that is about the best you can do really.

Actually, 3 'thropes and 2 guarded Tyrants would work very well as the synaptic basis for a horde. A circle with a radius of 12" is a lot bigger than you would expect, and with the ability to take 6 albative wounds per tyrant you'll stand up fine without taking any pants warriors. If I recall correctly, IB doesn't even apply in combat, correct? If so, that means your synaptic net need only be 100% complete for two or three turns. I'll toss a warrior-free horde list at you next time I'm at home with my 'dex or AB.

The Problem with Zoans and Hts with Synapse is that you want your Hts in the center of the table so they can cover the most ground and double up on trouble some units, so you would put Zoans on the flanks. But Zoans can be killed rather easily, but if the guarded Tyrants are on the flanks they have a harder time consentrating there force where they need to. 7 "29pts tl dev warriors" while costly can have enough Wounds to "flank" and not be picked of easily and have an area they can effect of 24"s. That 7 man unit has 14 wounds and cost 182 points. That can herd flanks pretty well. Armies armed with lots of Anti Horde weapons are probably better of shooting the horde, then the warriors. Even the magicly delious 4 HB Dev squad will usally take 2-3 turns of fire to wipe this squad out and that's also about the same time it takes the horde to get to grips with the enemy. If you want Horde, these guys can really help.

Like everything, if you want to use them take alot, taking 1 or 2 small squads will just make prime targets for HBs that otherwise may not have any decent targets. Take 30 4+ save wounds on the table and the enemy will not have enough HBs to effectively deal with the threat.

Going with the idea of not giving heavy weapons a decent target, a horde of Warriors & gaunts would fit the bill.

That said when I played my warrior/stealer army I did still take 2 sniperfexs but in 4+ cover the enemy really didnt even bother trying to kill them.

Takes almost 15 lascannon/rocket shots at BS4 to take one out..... not too easy.