The Scene is Set:
On the seventeenth of August 2010, in the darkest corners of the internet, in a back-trodden, unwashed-man and opinion filled website known as 'DakkaDakka', a thread was created. The creator of this thread was a little-known man, referred to as 'Just Dave', a creature bearing more resemblance to Tolkien's Gollum than anything a mother would be proud to call hers. This... man. This creature, Just Dave, decided to celebrate his 1000 posts by Ranking The Primarchs of Warhammer 40,000, in an effort inspired by the man[?]-creature known as Little Lord Fauntleroy, Just Dave ranked the Primarchs and (apparently) he ranked 'em good.
During the ranking, on the fourth of September, Templeorks suggested "This Needs a sticky or something". Then, on the sixth of September, Dark said "this Primarch's reviews should be immortalized in the forum". On the same day, Cadet_Commissar_Ludd suggested "I think Just Dave should put all his reviews into an article once the thread's over, this website needs some more". So now. On this fateful day. Just Dave has succumbed to Peer Pressure and...
No! No! That's not it. Sorry. *clears throat* So now. On this fateful day. Just Dave has succumbed to Peer Pressure and...
Has created the article in which the "really butt-kicking thread" (GitSplitta) shall be 'immortalized'.
So now, The thread becomes an article and the internet becomes much more worse. As does my grammar.
As it turned out, my 'Celebrating 1000 Posts by Ranking The Primarchs!' thread was popular and some requested that it be added as an article for others to see, so here it is. The rankings will be copy and pasted from the original thread, however the pictures cannot be copied, but that's not a major problem. At the end a link to the original thread will be provided, as will a link to Fauntleroys original thread which inspired me so.
Thanks Dakka, I hope you like it.
Or, as I said at the time:
Well I've finally made it to a 1000 posts on Dakka and it's been a wholly enjoyable experience. It reignited my love for the 40K universe and while I'll admit to not collecting that many miniatures, I love the background. Dakka itself has been awesome; welcoming, intellectual (seriously!!), humorous and simply enjoyable, led by a band of merry men and weiner-dogs alike (the Mods), Dakka's been a great place for me, providing some relaxation and happiness to help me overcome my depression and other problems, with the 40K universe being a great distraction from the suckier parts of life.
So, as inspired by Little Lord Fauntleroy, I intend to rank the Primarchs - pre daemonhood - by my own personal preference as a way of almost celebrating my time on Dakka.
So, on with the show...
18th: Substance? What Substance?!
That's right, in last place it's Angron; the guy with no depth or character whatsoever. Even his name sums up how lack-lustre he is, I mean, he's angry and he's called... Angron?! Sheesh, at least most of the other Primarchs had good names! With a name like that I guess it does shed some light on why Angron does have quite so many father-issues.
Some people criticise the Primarchs for complaining about their daddy etc. but it's Angron that really started it, complaining about being prevented from engaging in a suicide mission?! Awww poor you! You could've stayed there for all I care.
Then we get a Primarch and Legion that are very angry and very killy. That's basically all there is to them. All the legions are killy, but the other Legions have some depth to them. I admit, a raging, dual-axe-wielding mad-man is quite cool. But that's all it is, it's not big (OK, it is), it's not funny and it's not clever. If you've read the short-story in Tales of Heresy, you may also come to see Angron has having so little substance or personality. All he is is angry and well, that's just not cool.
I admit however, Angron could've won some points back after the heresy as he is the only Daemon-Primarch to have actually done something. Although he failed at that too.
17th: Flesh Is Weak. But Fancy Hands Don't Seem To Be Any Better.
In at number 17, it's Ferrus Manus.
I'll get the good bits out of the way first: Hands of Steel are pretty cool and he's a no-nonsense kinda guy.
However, then there's the fact he got his bionic-arse kicked. Twice. Not only did he manage to kicked himself beaten-up but he also managed to get all of his veterans beaten up. Twice.
His name isn't the most origional thing. Ferrus meaning "iron" and Manus meaning "hand" stands out to anyone who knows basic latin. However as this isn't many people, that problem can be considered small.
Another problem with Ferrus Manus is that we know relatively little about him and that which we do know doesn't appeal to me. I mean, for some it works - such as Khan - but for Manus, he seems to spend most of his time with his head up his - kicked - butt; there's stubborn and then there's stupidity. For Manus I find the line a bit blurred.
On Istvaan he and his veterans were going to die, however, they could've showed some sense and retreated into - perceived - safety. Instead he decides that attacking 4 traitor Legions with his already crippled force is a better idea?! The Iron Hands were going to die there, but he could've shown some sense in how they did it. The Iron Hands were crippled for the rest of the crusade, they would've been either way, just Ferrus ensured it by running at the enemy.
I admit, some people won't agree with this opinion in particular, but to me Ferrus is just a bit of a pleb...
16th: Why You Shouldn't Listen To Peer Pressure.
In at a not-perfect 16, it's Fulgrim.
This guy is different... With White Hair, a hedonistic lifestyle and pink armour, he's a bit 'out there'.
Fulgrim could've been really, really cool and I want to like him, but then sense wins over and I realise he's really a prat. I admit, he's a brutal warrior and has a cool image and nickname, but can't he make his own decisions?!
He's massively influenced by a sword, some marines and his 2nd favourite brother, whilst ignoring his favourite brother, his father and a truth-speaking farseer?! Surely he must've realised that wasn't his conscience telling him that everyone wants a bit of the sex (Slaanesh) and that it wasn't an entirely valid opinion?!
I admit, I don't expect him to listen to Eldrad too much (xenos and all that), but when he comes from a renowned fortune-seeing race and actually tells you what's going to happen, which you witness being true and yet ignore?! Sheesh. how little sense can a super-human being have?!
Add to that his perfectionism and he's just too flawed, too petty and too much of an easily-influenced sucker. So close but so far!
15th: "Daddy! Luther's Picking On Me!"
Yep, this list is getting more complicated by the second! At number 15, it's Lion El' Jonson.
Quite possibly the most spoilt and petulant Primarch there is, he's like a child throwing it's rattle out of a pram, but his rattle is the fate of 1000's. Jonson had the potential to be so, so cool! Just look at that image; how awesome is that?! The Dark Angels are also pretty cool and Jonson himself is a powerful fighter and tactician alike. However, no super-super-human being should ever be that petulant.
First on the list of my gripes with him is his belief that he should have been Warmaster. Why does he believe this? Not only because he's arrogant but because he's the Primarch of the 1st Legion?! Grow a pair man! It's a number! Then at the end of Fallen Angels,
he (humorously) hands over some mighty powerful siege weapons (Leviathans?!) to Perturabo in return for support in his bid to become new Warmaster. How spoilt can one man be?!
He spoils his (incredible) tactics through his petulance; the story of his life IMHO.
Then there's the problem of him and Luther, it shouldn't take a genius to realise Luther's jealousy and potential threat to the Legion. Maybe Lion should've removed Luther from power long before he became a problem. Luther himself should've also grown a pair IMO, he's the son of the Emperor; realise your superiors. When Luther barely stopped Jonson being nuked in orbit should have been enough of a sign for Jonson, but instead you send him back to look over 1/2 the Legion?! Maybe I'm just cold-hearted, I don't know, I just think him and Luther are as bad as each other - pretty bad!
And Jonson also stormed out in a strop after his fight with Russ (who himself, was in the wrong IMHO) and then gave him the silent treatment?!
I apologise to all those who understandably like The Lion, but beneath his rock-hard, uber-cool exterior, he really, really needs to grow up.
14th: Iron Man is a superhero. Iron Woman is a command...
In at number 14 it's Perturabo, Primarch of one of the coolest Legions. However, this is about the Primarchs not their Legions and as a whole, Perturabo is almost as whiney as Jonson!
What's worse than a hypocrite? An angry, jealous hypocrite at the head of hundreds of thousands angry super-warriors. Perturabo is an angry, jealous hypocrite at the head of such an army.
One thing I do like about Perturabo; he's evil. It's not that I like evilness, I always prefer the good-guys, however it just adds depth and character. Also, Perturabo has a cool image and his Legion is freakin' awesome! Similarly, Perturabo always manages to cause masses of Blood-shed without getting his hands dirty; he'd be very manipulative if he wasn't a whiny prick.
However, he complains about being used for masses of Siege Warfare, which I can kind of understand. However, it's without doubt his and his Legion's speciality and they didn't actually do anything other than moan, they didn't request a 'transfer' etc. he just moaned. So then he joins forces with Horus partially because he's fed up with constantly having to use siege warfare, then what does he do under Horus? Siege f***ing warfare!! Then what does he do after the heresy? More Siege f***ing warfare!!!
Secondly, he mutilates the population of his home world because they rebel, which is a bit harsh in itself - evil!!! Then he's all upset because he thinks people won't approve/will criticise him for it. But wait, he joins forces with the arch-traitor and Chaos gods?! I know which one of those two actions I'd forgive him for and it doesn't involve alliance with multi-tentacled nutters...
Also, Perturabo is jealous of Dorn? Grow up man! You're a freakin' Primarch! So what, Dorn can build some impressive defences, you're acknowledged as being the best for tearing them down. Everyone has their skills and their flaws and in the greater scheme of things, who cares if Dorn - your brother - gets a couple more pats on the back than you? If you weren't such an introverted, angry and complaining pleb, maybe the people would love you too?
So yes, for crimes against maturity, it's Perturabo.
13th: "I bet Russ is in first place, because Dave clearly is a Space Wolf player."
That's right, the Primarch of my favourite Space Marine Chapter is ranked at an average thirteenth.
Leman Russ is arguably the toughest, meanest and downright most dangerous Primarch. Considered by some to be 'designed' to be able to defeat any other Primarch or enemy and in my opinion, capable of defeating even Angron in combat. Also, just look at his picture: How damn mean is he?! All you need to do is look at him and you know he's badass and going to kick your [Cyclopean]butt to infinity and beyond.
Then why is he ranked 13th I hear you ask/type/think?
Simply put, because he is - as some murderised tyrant put it - "The Emperor's Lap Dog". Russ is so cool and so bad-ass, but he doesn't appear to have any of his own morals or initiative. Lets take a look at his whupping of Magnus for example; whilst he did prove he is oh-so-very brutal, he also proved he'll listen to almost any order he's given. None of the other Primarchs fought another without a pang of regret or suitable motivation (eg. Fulgrim/Ferrus), yet Russ attacks his brother-Primarch simply because Horus told him to? [insert jumping of cliff cliché here]
Magnus was unaltered from his usual form and hadn't really committed any truly heretical actions yet Russ attacks him seemingly without remorse or regret. He could've just 'apprehended' Magnus as the Emperor ordered him to, but instead he takes two Legions away from defending the Imperium during the Horus Heresy. I know he was ordered to and I know he hated sorcery, but damn, show a bit of emotion as you kick your brothers ass to another dimension! Magnus had done nothing to show Russ personally that he needed to be attacked without trial, an offer of surrender would've done.
Also, Russ once again showed the immature and shallow streak that many of the Primarchs so far (Jonson and Perturabo, I'm looking at you!), when he once again attacked (although with fisty-cuffs this time) his brother. and over what? Because he killed the enemy leader?! So what if he called you a name?? You've been freakin' shot at and endured much worse!
The modern Space Wolves (like the Iron Hands) that we know of in the Imperium are better off without Russ as now they do any but blindly follow their orders; now they look out for the people of the Imperium and don't blindly attack their allies. Whereas Russ would follow said orders and would attack said allies without motivation.
So a shock result at number 13, it's the Emperor's lapdog, Leman Russ, who despite his image of awesomeness and badassery, never acted (maturely) on his own instinct and lets be honest, drank a little bit too much.
12th: "Why Does Nobody Like Me?!"
Yes, the much anticipated ranking of Gulliman, the guy that everyone loves to hate. Except of course the Ultramarines and half of the Imperium...
So we've had anger, immaturity, ignorance and idiocy. Now we've come to arrogance. By which I mean, assuming that you're right and perfect and everyone else is wrong. I'm looking at you Codex Astartes! Even his Legion isn't modestly named - I mean, Ultramarines?! Ultra Marines?! How about 'Bestestmarines'? or 'Ubermarines'? or 'fairlyaveragemarines'? And the idea of them being from Ultramar is so clearly tacked on that it simply makes the whole idea seem even more stupid. As a guy and as a leader, Gulliman isn't too bad. Actually he's a freakin' great tactician and the Ultramarines were fairly Ultra. But still, not everyone has to follow the Codex Astartes, or fight the same way as you. Not everyone managed to keep their Legion unharmed. Not everyone likes you. Clearly.
One of my gripes with Gulliman is that he perceives he is always right. Such as the Codex Astartes or bullying Kurze. Even the Emperor wasn't always right, let alone you! The Night Lords were devastatingly effective as sometimes they didn't even need to fight, just scare the enemy, part of Kurze turning traitor is because Gulliman kept criticising the poor little guy! The Codex Astartes itself is flawed and arguably worse than the Legion set-up but still, Gulliman had to have his way! If it wasn't for the fact he had 20 twins anyone would think him to be an only child!
I admit, I don't mind Gulliman too much, I like his loyalty and ability. However, that doesn't mean I think the astronomican shines out of his ass! I admit Roboute, you're a helluva leader and you're Legion is/was almost invincible. However, that was largely because there were so many of the blighters (randy gene-seed?!) and even so, it doesn't mean you're perfect. if you were perfect, you would've been on Terra bitch-slapping Horus to the Eye of Terror and beyond!
Also, the Imperium (modern) is a corrupt and dying society and we can partially thank you for that with your Codex and High Lords and things. Thanks Roboute, nice job mate. Really Ultra.
So despite being an almost Knight and Great Leader, Roboute is ranked at number 12 because he has his self-righteous head shoved so far up his ass that he thinks Yellow and Blue don't clash?! That my friends is a fashion foul-up of the highest order and is therefore unforgivable.
11th: Lucky to have made it this far...
Yep, at number 11 it's the godfather of soul. As in, "I just sold your soul to Chaos!"
Now as someone has already noted, I'm a nice guy and not usually a fan of the evil nut-cases that seem to be everywhere. However, not quite everyone is as evil or manipulative of Lorgar.
I admit, I'm not a fan of religion and I feel that Lorgar's a bit... weak or easily influenced (think Fulgrim/sword). Let me put it like this; he was all over the Emperor like a cheap coat, proclaiming him to be a god and all that jazz. Then the Emperor (his daddy) gives him a slap on the wrist and tells him to stop, so what does Lorgar do? He doesn't just stop worshipping the Emperor, he starts worshipping the Chaos freakin' gods!! So he's still being all religious, but now to the Emperor's worst enemies! Daddy said "no", not "go see the people that want me and the human race dead/enslaved and look up to them instead." All you had to do was stop, not throw some uber-tantrum and cause half the human race to go crazy or dead!
Similarly, Lorgar is turned to Chaos through a couple of his lieutenants, I would much rather it was Lorgar that turned his own Legion to chaos, not the other way around!
Also, the manipulative kind of evil is the sort no-one likes. When a psychopath gets his hands dirty; that's cool (for a psychopath! I don't endorse killing!). However, when you sit back and get someone else to do it, that's not so cool.
However, Lorgar is just pretty damn evil. In a good/actually having some substance/reasoning way, not like Angron! I mean, he turns half his brothers to Chaos and burns half the Imperium; that's not an amateur job! There's cruddy evil (Angron), get-your-hands-dirty-cool-evil and then there's evil evil. Lorgar is the evil evil variety. He's evil, but he makes others evil and is very good at what he does! I admit, I don't think Horus could've won, but hell, they made a pretty damn good job of it!
Angron's just like a pawn of Lorgar/Chaos, Lorgar is more of a bishop (pun intended).
So yeah, whilst I dislike evil and the Chaos gods as a whole, I do kind of like the extent to which Lorgar is a psycho and how it was largely him that caused the Horus Heresy - a freakin' great plot line!
is it just me or does he look like an angry Milky Way Magic Star?
So for being a bit weak and a fool, yet utterly evil, It's Lorgar. Also, Magic Stars are THE BEST!
We're now into the top ten (Gitspliitta). The remaining Primarchs, in loyalist/traitor order are: Corax, Dorn, Khan, Sanguinus, Vulkan, Alpharius/Omegon, Horus, Kurze, Magnus, Mortarion.
An exact fifty/fifty split it seems. Oh wait...
We're now descending into a list of Primarchs I actually have more respect than hatred for, so the 'humour' may decrease.
Even so, the 'humour' is bound to decrease with Vulkan, a no-nonsense kind of guy that I don't know enough about to mock...
10th: I'm a Fire Starter, Twisted Fire Starter.
In at number 10, it's Vulkan!
Obviously, for political correctness Vulkan had to be in the top ten! However I do admit I quite like the big guy. I mean, he plays with fire. He plays with FIRE! Flames! He burns s**t! What kind of slightly twisted man doesn't like that?! But if that's not cool enough, he gets the rest of his Legion to play with fire too! But not only fire, explosives too!
Vulkan is the stereotypical man's wet-dream; tough-guy and plays with flames and explosives! That's the kind of role-model any child should have!
Actually, there's more good stuff to Vulkan than just his being a pyromaniac: he's an upstanding, honourable guy. He and his Legion stand up for the little guys; he stands up to the Dark Eldar on his homeworld (although with their old codex they were bound to lose!) and fights for the loyalists and the people of the Imperium. Other than his slight obsession with fire and explosives, this is one helluva guy to look up to!
So Vulkan's tough, down-to-earth, smart, a pyromaniac, green(cool!), upstanding and honourable? How much of a stand-up cool guy is he?!
So why, if he's such a dude, is Vulkan not higher than 10th?! Well, the obsession with technology gimmick is a little bit tedious, the remaining Primarchs I like more (duhhh!) and frankly we don't know enough about the guy for him to be liked more. What we know is mostly good, yeah. But I want to see his flaws, his true character and his actions to connect with him better and we just don't have that.
Maybe if we learn more about him he'll be ranked higher, until then though he's at number 10. Don't blame me, blame Games Workshop, not that you didn't already.
9th: "These boots are made for stamping and that's just what they'll do."
Genghis Khan in Space! Need I say more?!
...What? I do? OK...
Khan is without doubt an uber-cool dude. I admit, he may lack a bit of the ol' depth, but he is just so, so cool! Look at that picture, look at it! How cool does he look?! He's wearing bronze and red, a freakin' awesome top-knot (a cool one though) and is covered in spikes!
Wait... It gets better! Look at that sword (just imagine less of a curve!), you can tell he carves the Ork up at Christmas with that man-sword! Also, notice his man-tash? That is sooo cool! And his coolness doesn't stop there, oh no. See his heels and fur-lined cape?! How much of an utter fashion-ignorant but massively confident super-human warrior must you be to wear those?! If he came to me looking like that, I'd surrender then and there!*
Khan must have levels of endurance and pain-threshold un-matched by any of the other Primarchs if he can battle across the galaxy in heels!
I haven't stopped, at the Siege of Terra Khan was witnessed going into battle standing atop a Razorback!** Imagine the dude you see above standing atop a battle-tank, riding into battle cutting down anyone who stands in his way! Khan is freakin' awesome! A furious, majestic image of a primarch, the visage of the Emperor's wrath honed into one super-human being!
Khan also has some substance behind his exterior of uber-coolness (jealous Angron?). He's a loyalist Primarch and combine that with his upbringing and Legion's character and you can tell he's a guy that utterly believes in loyalty and honour. Loyalty and Honour. Gladiator-style!
Also, the White Scars and Khan seem to receive comparatively little credit for their efforts in the Siege of Terra. The Fists were camping out (not Emperors Children kind of camping!) on Terra the whole time and Sanguinus kicked the proverbial bucket. But the White Scars, they fought at the head of the loyalists and took the fight to the traitors, trying to keep them on the back foot and away from the Palace and civilians, not that anyone remembers!
Finally, Khan moulded his Legion into an utterly brutal and scarily efficient force. Let me put it like this; Space Marines are naturally incredibly tough and incredibly dangerous. So they have the strength and toughness equivalent to a sledge hammer. What could make this sledge hammer even more deadly/powerful? Velocity, that's what. Combine the Space Marines natural strength and toughness with speed and they'll be nigh on unstoppable.
So why then, if he is so cool, is Khan only 9th? Simply put, because we know so little about the guy. It's a damned shame as he's a helluva character, but sadly, it's true. Also, not everyone finds him as cool as I do. But it is my list! Mwhahahahehehehohoho...
- Just Dave does not endorse or criticise cross-dressing in any way, remember those cage-fighters dressed as women in the news?! Well Khan makes them look like sissys!
- Technically Razorbacks weren't around during the Heresy. Maybe he did it riding atop a pony or something? Hell, that'd be cooler actually!
- There wasn't a 3 asterisk note, I just wanted to put another one in. I have urges, so what?!
8th: Horus' Hairesy - Look At That Fur Coat! Disgusting.
Finishing in 8th place, it's the Dark Lord himself; Horus Lupercal.
So first on my list of pro's about Horus; he also realises how much of a tool Angron is - seeing him as a weapon rather than an ally - and rightly so IMHO. "Yes Dave, you don't like Angron, we get it!"
Within the Warhammer 40K universe, I like both badassery, substance and righteousness. Horus has all of those traits. Horus had all of those traits. Horus himself is pretty kick-ass, I mean in the picture above he looks like he'd kick a puppy for fun. Whilst I don't endorse kicking puppies, you kind of expect Horus to do it, he became that evil and that merciless. Horus also had/has substance, he partially endorsed 'democracy' through the Mournival, through which he would get the balance of advice to take the proper course of action. The mournival itself is a good idea, providing Horus with the right mix of different traits to balance out his own personality, showing he recognises his own flaws and is willing to seek advice even from those 'beneath him'.
It was clear Horus was a reasonable and well-rounded guy. He had many traits and lots of character; wisdom, compassion, protection, anger, honour, loyalty, the list goes on... Few of the Primarchs have such a well-rounded character of are so aware of themselves. Unlike many of the other Primarchs, Horus did truly appear human and for that, I can almost warm to him. In the novels Horus even shows humour that isn't seen in any of the other Primarchs and he displays some weakness in character. He's a human in a primarch's body.
I believe that the Emperor was right to make Horus the warmaster - although maybe Dorn or Gulliman instead - he appeared to have the right balance within his personality and he's a strong ambitious leader. It wasn't through any clear flaw of his own that Horus was corrupted, it was through exploitation of the pressures and worries already placed upon him.
His actions were also very intelligent however. For example, they attack on the 'Aurelian Technocracy'(?) gave the traitors a 'taste' of fighting their brothers and the Istvaan V dropsite massacre is genius...
In fact, his corruption further shows the human aspect of Horus: he had worries and he had fears, but he also had noble intentions and ambitions. He wanted to live up to his fathers intentions and he wanted to unite humanity, but he struggled (understandably) to cope with the pressures put upon him and this was exploited by Chaos and Erebus.
Personally I find the Traitors to be kinda overall pathetic. Especially Horus. I mean goddamn Horus is the wimpiest pansy that ever pansied-- he starts a civil war because, effectively, he's being a whiny rebellious teenager. The entire Horus Heresy, from his point of view, is a violent hissy fit over the Emperor not giving him enough hugs. It just... makes me want to stab him in the face. Repeatedly. With an axe. Which is made of fire.
And that is where I disagree, for not only can you not make an axe from fire, but also it's difficult to stab with an axe... Oh, also I disagree with Horus being a pansy, I think much of his reasoning for the heresy was understandable.
Horus was under masses of pressure, trying to run the galaxy and please everyone whilst being undermined by the High Lords of Terra. He had also just been attacked by a lost human civilisation whom he had connected and bonded with, whereby he would have had to exterminate an entire human civilisation which spanned across many planets and more. At the same time he had been abandoned by his father for reasons unknown to him - it's not quite not enough hugs, more not enough kisses - and left to try and lead a galactic crusade with his brothers criticising him, his enemies attacking him, his allies betraying him and the high-lords undermining him. If you combine this with a mortal wound and being exposed to the full power of Chaos, I can kind of understand why Horus rebelled. Dorn himself didn't think it was the Horus he knew that was rebelling, but that he had infact been tainted by something.
And that is exactly right. The real Horus - pre heresy - was a noble upstanding kind of chap with good intentions and actions, it's just Chaos went all mind-control on him.
However, I don't completely agree with Horus' reasons for turning traitor. When Chaos spoke to Horus he was - although wounded - largely in control of his own actions and thoughts, he had the opportunity to rebuke the gods of Chaos and save humanity, but instead he believed their lies and damned himself, his legion, his humanity and his fur coat. This is where I disagree with Horus, I don't understand why he would listen to Chaos - their name gives it away! if they were called the 'gods of lovely' or 'gods of warmth, kindness and care-bears to all' then I could understand. Even so, I don't see why he believed them or what was entirely wrong with the Emperor becoming a god?!
Also on the list of bad things; he ignores the mournival and listens to Erebus. WHY?! Erebus is clearly a slimey git and the mournival were there for a reason! Also, why did he not at all listen to Garviel Loken before he got his ass whupped by Eugan Temba? As it says in Lucky Number Sleven, if you get called a horse once, hit em. If you get called a horse twice, stab em. If you get called a horse 3 times, then well, you just might be a horse. Or something along those lines.
So if Garviel Loken says the poop is gonna hit the fan once, ignore him. If he says it twice, rebuke him. If he says it three times, then turn the f***ing fan off! It'd save electricity too.
For being ultimately a very human and well-meaning - if a bit genocidal - guy, it's Horus Lupercal, in at number 8. But hey, at-least he didn't get his wrist slapped by the Emperor this time!
7th: Sticks and Stones May Break My Bones, But Russ Will Really Hurt Me.
Yep, finishing in - a still impressive - 7th, it's the peoples favourite. Magnus The Red. The Crimson King. Primarch of the Thousand Sons. The GINGER!!!
Magnus is very much a sympathy story, engaging many people with his ultimately good intentions but fall from grace. An almost Tragic Hero. I know this good intentions and convoluted story is the kind of thing I have been endorsing so far, however there's more to Magnus than just this IMHO.
I'll start off with the good; The Thousand Sons are possibly the best looking Legion there is, the whole Egyptian theme and red/blue and gold colour scheme looks great and suits their mystical imagery. Magnus himself looks suitable as well, coming across as very intimidating and an almost magical being, more so than the usual Primarch at least! The horns, the gold armour, the deep red (GINGER!!!) hair and the whacking great axe all look very cool. This brutal image also suits Magnus in that it can be misinterpreted, as are his actions. It further detaches him from humanity; fitting his character and story.
Also, Magnus has some of the most noble of ideals; trying to prevent the Heresy before it can begin and then trying to forewarn the Emperor. He ultimately would've fought for the loyalists if it were not for Russ/Horus bitch-slapping him, further benefiting his tragic story. Magnus also appeared to be misunderstood in his use of the warp, causing him to not be trusted and feared by the Imperium, whereas Magnus only sought to use it for good. Magnus also appeared to be a very 'caring' kind of guy, trying to preserve the history of conquered nations etc.
As you can see, Magnus was a good guy with good intentions, who comes across as a victim; unfairly persecuted and forced to fight for Horus. However, how much of this story and suffering did Magnus bring upon himself?
This is where I explain why, for me, Magnus only finished seventh and isn't favoured by me quite so much as he is by everyone else. It's clear Magnus is a very good guy (which I like) and has a great story and image, however I believe he's partially to blame for his own downfall due to his own flaws.
Knowledge is power (Space Wolves are also power!) is one of the key tenets of Magnus. However, he didn't know as much as he thought and it's largely this arrogance that has caused Magnus to not rate as highly as he could have. Ferrus Manus is ranked all the way down in 17th because of his arrogance! Magnus believed himself to be omniscient and the master of the warp and whilst some sympathise with him for his downfall, I partially blame him. How could he believe he was the master of something that couldn't actually be seen or properly understood?! Now I'm good at certain subjects (English, History etc.) however, I'm not so good at understanding that which doesn't exist in the same dimension, whereas Magnus thought he was.
It's not some harmless mistake either! Lets say I thought I was amazing at football and tried to do keepy-uppies in my living room, then I lost control of the ball and it broke a vase - my bad, but no big deal. Lets say Magnus was trying to do the same, but his football was the warp. Magnus just doesn't break a vase, he breaks the priceless ming vase that is the Emperors throne room and causes two Legions to fight one-another instead of prevent Horus, thereby causing half the galaxy to burn and a millennia of constant war and suffering. This CAN all be led back to Magnus, so let's be frank: he messed up. Big Time.
Knowledge is power. Assuming you know everything is just god-damn stupid.
Also, could Magnus really not have hot-footed it over to Terra to warn the Emperor about Horus?! I mean it's quite a big deal, whilst telling daddy as-soon-as-possible would be good, being able to fully warn and explain it to him is better! It's not like he was racing Horus to Terra. At the time, Horus was in a freakin' coma!! If he went to Terra himself he could have properly warned the Emperor and made him understand the situation, at least getting him to give Horus a ring and check everything is all right! Instead Magnus damns himself, his Legion, the citizens of prospero and half the Imperium. I know, flying over to Terra is easier said than done etc. but when the fate of the galaxy is at stake, wouldn't you want to do it properly!?
And when Russ went all chopity chop, stabidy stab on Magnus and his Legion why did he 1st sit back and watch them die then wade in there and give them all to the gods of Chaos? I know what his though process was (I deserve it etc.) but why would you then turn to the force which you know just turned your brother evil and has constantly manipulated and mutated you and your entire Legion?! The gods of Chaos haven't exactly been your best friends in all this, in fact, they were to blame and you know it!
Finally, what made Magnus think the warp was a play-toy?! He's seen 1st hand it's not a nice place, it's full of predators (not those predators!!), requires mass-sacrifice and he's seen the mutation it can wreak, from his own Legion and colonies he 'liberated'.
I mean, personally I'd trust a nice car more than I would an incredibly flashy car which I had to sacrifice hundreds of people to obtain!
Lets see... Angry, malicious primeval force from another dimension that is reluctant to be controlled? Check. Angry, malicious primeval force from another dimension that requires human sacrifice? Check. Angry, malicious primeval force from another dimension that you don't fully understand? Check. Angry, malicious primeval force from another dimension that your dad - the leader of the human race, the man who you respect more than anyone else and the smartest dude around - has told you not to play with? Check.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the warp doesn't seem like the most practical of tools around does it? I think Russ proved a pointy stick can do the same job but better!
This section has been filled with a lot more negatives than most of the top-tens have (and will), so why is Magnus still seventh?! Because he has such a good and almost tragic story and has so much character in himself. This could have got him 2nd or 3rd or whatnot, but because of his (ironic) arrogance and idiocy, he's down in seventh.
Magnus; full of contradictions and irony: he's so smart yet so stupid.
6th: Fisting has never been more painful. .
In at number six, it's the man in yellow. It's Ali G... I mean Rogal Dorn.
Where-as Gulliman is boring and Khan is kick-ass, Dorn is somewhere in-between. He's more down-to-earth than gravity, but he's not boring in doing so, infact it enhances his no-nonsense, bad ass, "my [Imperial] fist, your face" appearance. Whilst some see Rogal (yeah, me and him are on 1st name terms) a bit dull or monotonous, I see him as heroic and a true warrior and I intend to explain why...
Dorn believes in honesty - even if it means damage to himself - above all else, which is something I thoroughly approve of and often do myself. I doubt it's a coincidence that all (OK, most) the manipulative and self-centred Primarch's are the traitors. As someone who has millions of lives depending on them, I believe a Primarch should be honest. Obviously honesty doesn't work all the time, but it's ultimately the right thing in most cases. This meant that Dorn was almost certainly the most trust-worthy Primarch and simply a stand-up guy which - in the Warhammer universe in particular - are both great traits.
When Garro arrives claiming Horus to be a traitor, most Primarchs would've completely ignored him or even slapped him silly. And although Dorn did - understandably -ultimately he listened to Garro and rather than being ignorant or stubborn, he considered what Garro was saying and ultimately the loyalists gained from it. One thing I as a person dislike is when people blatantly refuse to consider the alternative argument (such as fan-boys) and whilst most Primarchs would've done this, Dorn didn't and for that he gains a lot of respect.
Also, in Nemesis, Dorn concludes the Master of Assassins to be Malcador and through bluffing/assuming alone gets Malcador to admit this. One of the assassins asks Dorn how he knew it and Dorn said it was simply an assumption and through taking his mask off, Malcador admits this. Dorn makes Malcador the Sigillite, the Emperors left (Primarchs are right) hand look like a fool and Malcador's realisation of this is priceless. More Priceless than mastercard. More priceless than the look on the cashiers face as you buy the Miley Cirus DVD alongside some Vaseline and tissues.
Other positives about Rogal Dorn: he valued the counsel and efforts of his father even though he knew he wasn't blood-related, Perturabo for example did otherwise. The Phalanx is cool. He looks cool, like really cool. His appearance really fits his character of an overall great and loyal guy but one that you won't want to mess with. The Imperial fists are also cool.
Dorn himself I'd argue is the most reasonable-minded Primarch, relying on proof and truth above all. He's not black and white or wholly one-sided. I was listening to some movie soundtracks earlier and this phrase popped up that some may like and really suits Dorn. "Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I will do what I must."
For example, when he was charged with bolstering the defences of the Imperial Palace, Dorn disliked and regretted it as he marred the beauty of the Palace, however he knew it was his duty and it was necessary. Similarly, Dorn recognises that it's not the Horus he knows, his brother, leading the rebellion. He believes that Horus has been tainted and is not sound of mind and you know what? He's right. Again.
When Gulliman oh-so-popularly introduced the Codex Astartes, Dorn fiercely opposed it but upon seeing how close he and his brothers were to another civil war, he conceded and accepted the Codex Astartes, once again proving his wisdom and reason.
However, Dorn is also well recognised as a military genius and rightly so. He led the defences of Terra before and during the siege, his intelligence and mastery of battle and defence vital to holding off superior forces led by a skilled enemy. A fleet-based chapter makes a lot of sense and suits the role of the Adeptus Astartes, as does the principle of over-whelming firepower. Dorn was reasonable of heart, mind and sword.
Many Primarchs have a clear theme; Sanguinus is of an Angel, Corax of a Bird, Mortarion of the Grim Reaper, Angron as rage () but Rogal Dorn is of a knight. Pure in mind and body. Virtuous. A devastating warrior. A Great Leader. A beacon of truth and light. In The Grim Darkness of the future, Rogal Dorn is a proverbial torch, although the gold armour helps with this...
Dorn has all the qualities I like: Honesty, Loyalty, Reason, Martial and Military Prowess, Leadership, Bravery, the list goes on...
However, he's not perfect, which although this can add character, to me it simply lessens Dorn to an extent:
- - Pain Gloves, a bit 'emo' for my liking...
- - Iron Cage, expecting a fair fight?! Really? That's like expecting manliness from Christiano Ronaldo.
- - His death is also underwhelming, dying aboard a Chaos ship to no-one in particular is a bit underwhelming. Whilst he did attack said ship for noble reasons, I'd rather he had a more suitably nasty enemy to die to, such as a Daemon Prince, Avatar, Greater Daemon etc... Not some random Chaos Space Marine(s).
However, Dorn's weaknesses and flaws (although very slight) do help add to his character to an extent, helping to understand his feeling of failure in that he failed his Legion, The Imperium and The Emperor. This shows Dorn also has emotion beneath his intelligence and rock-hard exterior.
In at number 6, for being Knightly and really winding up Perturabo, it's Rogal Dorn.
As has been recognised, we're now in the top five and Ediin (and most others it seems) is still predicting it wrong! In Alphabetical order the remaining Primarchs are:
- Konrad Kurze
and next up is:
5th: Batting For The Other Team.
Will that do Alpharius? The picture, not the ranking of course...
Yep, it's another contentious one. Alpharius/Omegon are in at number 5.
The Alpha Legion are, without doubt, cool. Their whole manipulative, deceiving tactics are both very intelligent and very effective, made all the better by pissing off Gulliman. The idea of the Great Crusade is to unite all the sections of humanity and if the Alpha Legion's tactics prevent collateral damage then all power to them. They don't need to crush an entire sector when they can do it with one shot.
This also makes them a hugely interesting faction within the Horus Heresy and current 40K universe. We don't know what the Alpha Legions intentions were during the Horus Heresy, we can presume it's following the Cabal and the Legion novel basically confirms this, but we ourselves create this confusion as we simply don't know what's true or false about the Alpha Legion. No-one outside it knows they even have 2 freakin' primarchs!
That's like someone not knowing one of their sons exists and not just due to Madonna adopting/stealing the blighter!
Wait... Chaos = Madonna? There's a new theory...
And now, we don't even know if Alpharius is alive!
Within the modern 40K universe we don't know much - if anything - of the Alpha Legion and their motivations. The Imperium has even proclaimed them destroyed multiple times! How you can not like this aspect of the Alpha Legion is beyond me...
Then there's the imagery Alpharius follows; that of the hydra. For a fighting force, this is a great and effective concept. One of Horus' favourite tactics was a spear-tip to cut off the head/leader of the enemy and leave them confused and disorganised, however this cannot be done with the Alpha Legion. You simply cannot cut off it's head without it being replaced and this isn't due to Chaos mutation either!
Further on the list of positives about Alpharius is his actions when he was found by the great crusade; he boarded Horus' ship and made it to the bridge, whereby he dodged Horus' shots and his followers being cut down and met Horus face-to-face where they both rejoiced at seeing one another! That's awesome! He knew a Primarch was coming, he knew which ship was his, where the bridge was, managed to board it and dodge all that fire! Alpharius could only have made this moment better if instead of him and Horus embracing, Alpharius kneed him in his gonads and said "that's for shooting at me. Brother." that would've been awesome! Have you also ever considered where Omegon was at this time? ;)
Actually, on does Ferrus have balls of steel? I know, with this and madonna I'm doing a lot of 40K theorising today, inspired by the mystery of the Alpha Legion I guess!
So, as you can see by Rogal Dorn, I respect honour and loyalty, striving to do things for the greater good and for the good of the people. Ultimately, although he turned traitor/cracked a few billion eggs to do so, Alpharius was striving to do the right thing/make one helluva an omelet. He sacrificed his ideals, his honour, his reputation and his father in order to try and save the galaxy. Alpharius realised how much of a cruddy race humanity is (the Imperium and Big Brother is evidence of this) and was willing to sacrifice them to save the galaxy. To me, that earns a whole lot of respect!
He sacrificed everything he had (except hundreds of thousands of super human warriors) in order to save the galaxy. And although he failed, I personally believe that in the current 40K Alpharius/Omegon are trying to destroy both humanity and chaos through killing factions on both sides.
Magnus wanted to help humanity, however he turned traitor and turned to Chaos. Alpharius wanted to help the galaxy and didn't technically (seemingly anyway) turn Chaos to do so. Whereas Magnus kicks himself in the crotch, Alpharius kicks both Horus and The Emperor in the crotch!
Alpharius saw and accepted the flaw of the Great Crusade and realised the flaws to his father and brothers, however he tried to look past them and shape a brighter future - as the Primarchs were ultimately intended to. Some Primarchs blindly followed the Emperor (Ultramarines, Fists), some turned traitor (Word Bearers, Luna Wolves), some just turned to killing everything (Iron Warriors), some just sucked (Iron Hands, Dark Angels) whereas ultimately Alpharius strived to help the galaxy and Imperium. For which he gets uber-kudos.
Similarly, whilst some of the Primarchs had uber-special abilities such a Magnus, Sanguinus, Ferrus etc. Alpharius was just a very smart and very good guy. I know there's two of him/them, but both of them are still very smart/good guys but neither are anything special except in intellect. This adds more character to Alpharius IMHO and makes me like him for his noble intentions even more as he, above all others, would've struggled to achieve them.
So why is he only ranked 5th? I admit, he could have easily been within or leading the top three, as could almost any of the final five (except he who is placed fourth... :o) and writing this up makes me like him even more, however I feel he doesn't quite have the depth or heroism of some others.
For example, in order to say hello to Horus Magnus sacrificed some of his followers. In order to punch the Nurthene he sacrificed much of the Geno's. Whilst you can argue that he's doing this for good reasons and such, it's still very, very coldhearted. Yes, he may be doing it for all the right reasons and sacrifices are needed etc. but it's still a very callous approach to the lives of others.
A big no-no for me is also how he MAY have been killed by Gulliman. He displayed arrogance and like many other primarchs, this could've been his down-fall. Ultimately, he may have been allowing Gulliman to seemingly kill him (remember, his kill is unconfirmed), he still made a mistake which Gulliman fully exploited - and credit to him.
Finally, he further sacrificed lives in order to prove a point, such as when he changed his tactics because it would be 'too easy'. For us, the player, they really are Toy Soldiers that we can expend and abuse. However, to Alpharius they're his sons, his greatest weapon and his greatest supporters and IMHO he should really be a bit more careful with them. I mean, a little bit of super-glue and we fix our toy-soldiers. Glue doesn't work so well on Space Marines however...
For being so kind, yet so cold-hearted it's Alpharius. Or Omegon? And Omegon? Neither?OK, it's supposed to be Alpharius. Who? No not him! The other one...
4th: Silent but deadly.
Mortarion, Primarch of the Death Guard, Prince of Nurgle, He Who Never Bathes, in at number 4.
More importantly, Ediin was actually right! He was freakin' right!! Someone get that boy a peanut!
I admit, Mortarion was never going to be 1st and frankly he's lucky to be 4th. He doesn't quite have the depth to be in the top 3, however he does have one thing in masses. Nope, not farts, not deodorant and not bath-times, but Mortarion is really, very sinister. Unlike any of the other Primarch's IMHO, Mortarion is just evil. He didn't need a reason for turning traitor or to Chaos, he's just sadistic.
If we look at the traitor Primarchs we have the stereotypes: The ambitious head-honcho (Horus), the simply angry and aggressive one (Angron), the sneaky manipulative bugger (Lorgar), the guy that does the dirty work (Perturabo), self-righteous and greedy one(Fulgrim), the guy you can't quite trust (Alpharius), the guy that doesn't really want to be there (Magnus) and the guy who later regrets his crimes (Curze). However, in this list there isn't the simply mean one. The one that goes around nicking the other Primarch's dinner money just because he can.
One of the key beliefs for Mortarion and his heresy-era Death Guard was one of arrogance and contempt for the weak. He looked down on humanity and those that showed weakness, he preyed on the scared and he quite simply hated the Imperium. He had become what he once hated, he had become more like his false father than he ever realised; seeing himself as superior to all others and seeing human beings as weak and little more than play toys. It's no coincidence that Mortarion re-modelled his Daemon World to resemble his home-planet and that he resides in his fathers throne. In further irony, Mortarion doesn't himself realise this, he really does see himself as better than anyone else and he still hates his false-father.
Mortarion is a story of a fallen angel. An angel that stunk, disliked everyone and liked killing.
OK, so an angel isn't the best comparison, but Mortarion had good intentions, he wanted to help the needed and on his homeworld he did. However, out of jealousy, ambition and a twisted sense of brotherhood he became corrupted. OK, so he was never quite an angel, but he definitely never will be now.
He went from caring for the people to despising them, they fanatically supported his father, his father who stole his 'glory'. He was betrayed by his favourite son (Typhus) and he didn't even know it. Mortarion is surprisingly unaware of what is occurring around him; he doesn't realise the intentions of Typhus, he doesn't realise what he's become and he doesn't realise he is destroying what he strived for. As a character, that's good and that's the kind of thing that got him into 4th place.
But there's more than that to Mortarion. He wasn't simply manipulated. He was willingly manipulated. He wants power and he will do anything (killing the Emperor, joining Nurgle etc.) to do it. Mortarion is just very, very sinister and evil. He doesn't just rip your head off. He rips your head off and farts down your throat, literally and metaphorically!
For example, Mortarion is the only one of the current Daemon Primarchs that I can imagine making any real gains/success in attacking the Imperium. Angron would be devastating at first, but he'd lose momentum and his movements could be predicted. Fulgrim would be distracted from his bloody crusade by his pleasure and perfection seeking, if he spotted an orgy and/or a powerful enemy, he'd be all over them like a cheap coat and/or an incredibly randy super-warrior. Perturabo is too childish and too spiteful. Magnus could easily be baited by the Space Wolves and would let his ego get in the way. And Lorgar would get too held up with making spikey-statues to make any significant progress. They could all do some damage, but I can only envisage Mortarion being capable of over-throwing the Imperium.
Mortarion has the tactical knowledge, the personal deadliness and capability and due to Nurgle, he wouldn't just strike, he would spread; his and nurgles influence spreading throughout the galaxy behind him and his warriors. He wouldn't place himself at the vulnerable front of this bloody - nay, grimey - crusade, he'd be at the heart, dictating to his men and forcing them forwards and the enemy back. Mortarion has no ulterior motives but to cause death and gain power.
Mortarion isn't a pawn to Nurgle, he's a follower, but he isn't used like some Primarchs. Where the other traitor-Primarchs have weakness or stupidity, Mortarion has only character or hatred. In a brilliant and actually subtle twist, Mortarion is who he despised.
Not only is he a good character, but Mortarion also looks freakin' awesome! His desire for simplicity and cold effectiveness is cool and suits him so well. He himself is death incarnate; he spreads death in every-way and everywhere: on the edge of his scythe (Grim Reaper much?), barrel of his guns and through the plague he spreads. Mortarion is a horrifying image of death and corruption, he is Chaos and he is the bringer of death, the man the Imperium should really fear (should he ever get off his throne*). Mortarion looks so, so cool and he is death and corruption personified.
Mortarion is quite simply, very smelly, very nasty, very sinister, very evil, very deadly , very malicious, very arrogant and very much in need of a bath.
- Mortarion's throne is quite likely a proverbial throne: the toilet. You can believe it can't you? You can see him sitting there, on the bog for all eternity, reading his newspaper; probably laughing at the problems section...
Wait... What happened to the final three?
I have been unable to fit the final 3 rankings into this article, as such they are continued/finished here:
There ---> http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Just_Dave_Ranks_The_Primarchs_Top_3