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So when Space Marines get the same treatment as Dark Angels, how many Space marine players will jump to Eldar?

No sure. The lack of two heavy weapons in DW is what clinched me playing lysander in the first place. In termie heavy armies, dual assault cannons are an equalizer, not cheese.

I wish more people that didnt play DW or other termie heavy armies realized that.

In power armoured marine armies lots of assault canonns are cheese, but with the amount of attrition that armies like DW face, assault cannons are quite needed to make up the difference to help make the army competitive.

But its not just two assault cannons. Alot of people field cyclones apparently. Now that DW cannot take two heavy weapons, GW has basically forced players such as DW to take assault cannons for AT. They havent reduced assault cannons in DW, they just reduced other options.

Maybe if GW playtested armies thoroughly (or at all), they might realize this.

Its been rumoured for a few months now that marines will get a redo. Thats good (though it is at the expense of other armies that need visiting) but I fear that it is just going to be a reduction in alot of options instead of making it a fresh attempt.

Knowing GW, I am willing to bet I am right.

whoa whoa whoa... Codex Apocalypse?

GW does. Sometimes GW listens to the playtesters other times they don't. But one thing is for sure, both parties try to find a balance.

Posted By Sgt_Scruffy on 01/07/2007 2:01 PM
whoa whoa whoa... Codex Apocalypse?

Rumored to be used for games in the 3,000+ points range and to see the release of the long rumored plastic Baneblade.

Posted By Fabulous on 01/07/2007 2:02 PM

Maybe if GW playtested armies thoroughly (or at all), they might realize this.

GW does. Sometimes GW listens to the playtesters other times they don't. But one thing is for sure, both parties try to find a balance.

GW doesnt use playtesters anymore. IIRC, sisters was the most playtested list with....30 games.

yeah, thats playtesting all right.

Well, i agree that some of the SM choices need to be changed, but dropping the extra assault cannon from the termies is going to fairly much hobble DW and Lysander wings. As hellfury said, they relly on that. It would be better to (if they need to change it at all for those armies) to simply allow only 1 assault cannon, but still allow 2 special weapons. Being able to take HtH weapons is OK, i suppose, although Termies are best at staying mobile and shooting.

And is it only Tactical squads that have to take the pistol and greandes? I really do not want to take that junk for a dev or shooty squad if i do not want to, it would be a huge waste of points. I am fairly nutral about the combat squads, it could be a nice option during the game.

As much as i love them, I agree with the rumors that Drop Pods should be more expensive as they are such an incredibly good transport option for so little points, and that Rhinos should be cheaper. Speeders being toned down with only one assault cannon per squadron is a fair move as well. But i know a lot of people will be seriously pissed about that.

Well, I hope the redux does not give a yo yo effect and cripple my favorite genetic super warriors, or as winterman said, we may see a bunch of SM's jumping ship.

that is a shame Orks got moved back again. it feels like EVERYONE wants to see a new Ork codex, they have such potential to be a great army with all of the character and background that GW 40K Orks have.


Just to add some weight to the Dark Eldar rumor, a firend of mine that works in GW said the same thing, and that there had already been a lot of work done on the models. Supposedly the DE are getting a huge overhaul and their background will really be changed. Take it with a grain of salt, but is sounded pretty legitimate.

The SM list is pretty good as it is. its the assault cannons that need to be fixed. We dont need a whole new codex, we need a simple rules addendum and admitttance of failure by GW to their customers.

Assault cannons need only a myriad of legitame and well thought out fixes that are easy to insitute.

one less shot or add jamming back into it or remove rending completely. its not brain surgery that requires a whole new codex.

Heh! Looks like we're in for a fun couple of years. I'm very excited about Plastic Baneblade (and Stompa?). Chaos and Marines need to be toned down a bit, so that's good. I hope they can force my Ultramarine ass to follow the Codex Astartes restrictions on squad size without crippling my army! Orks and DE need some love, so thats good, too!

- Codex Space Marines Redux ?

second that...what the fuge?

Only because GW insist on NOT changing rules between codex releases, it now means they push out the whole codex again?

And splitting the Chaos codex? LAME! I mean what do we have with this splitting all Marines attitude? Annoying Marine Codecies which leads us to Xeno Codex every other year or so.

And is it true that a Codex is only playtested like 30 games?

Greets
Schepp himself

It is nice to see a listing of what is coming even if the dates move.  I love playing Dark Eldar, and new figures were expected and some overhaul.  I hope the list is a wider variety of good units, not a few great units, and the rest lame ducks that look great.  I love the models for the most part, and if the gang that did the new Eldar are involved as rumored, then it is great news indeed.

I think Orks are due, DE are due, so all is going right for now.  I heard they were having some difficulties with Orks and DE got the big push to late 2007 early 08, so lets hope they both make it sooner rather than later.

GW admitted that the sisters of battle codex was the most playtested codex they ever produced.

It was later said that they playtested that list 30 times.

I am sure that GW will never make the mistake again on publishing how many times a codex is playtested because of that.

That is amazingly low. I think the average board game goes through more rigorous testing than that.

IIRC, the number was 40ish and it was based on a picture of the devs and a whiteboard with details of their Witchhunters testing, not any official declaration by GW. They could have tested more and possible independently as well but its been said that GW tends to ignore their suggestions. But GW themselves have never officially mentions how they playtest codexes, AFAIK.

As I recall, they recently droppoed external testing on codexes for the last few codexes (CoD and Tau being the last) but that is a third hand rumor at best. They may still use them.

Three Chaos codices? Gimme a break.

Posted By malfred on 01/07/2007 3:14 PM

- Codex Space Marines Redux ?

Buh?

That seems... silly. Is it really that bad?

And splitting the Chaos codex? LAME! I mean what do we have with this splitting all Marines attitude? Annoying Marine Codecies which leads us to Xeno Codex every other year or so.

Codex: Craftworld Chaos...

Meh, Chaos is fine, beyond summoning needing to be fixed (but as I've said before, somehow I wonder if the codex will fix summoning and then give us Dreadclaw drop pods with assault ramps) and IW potentially being toned down.  Game balance wise, though, Chaos should probably be the last of the 4e codices out, but the decision is more about sales than balance.

A second loyalist SM codex is just weird, though.  GW Japan already has downloadable codices, when will GW US/UK do the same -- and use the opportunity to maintain balanced lists?

Amen to that lowinor.

It seems such a horrid waste of resources to not properly utilize slave labor.

Ill just wait until the codex is printed the make PDF's so everyone that bought one wont have to buy yet another one because GW is an incompetant money greedy machine that cannot function properly due to mismamnagement from up on high.

Surley, if they wanted to, they could do a Chaos Undivided Codex and the different Undivided Legions and then a Codex for the 4 major powers. Two is enough. We don't need a whole book for Khorne...

BYE

Posted By H.B.M.C. on 01/07/2007 6:37 PM
Surley, if they wanted to, they could do a Chaos Undivided Codex and the different Undivided Legions and then a Codex for the 4 major powers. Two is enough. We don't need a whole book for Khorne...

BYE

Why not....I could see GW dedicating an entire codex to berserkers and bloodletters. It would be the worst codex since dark eldar, but that didnt stop GW from employing Gav Thorpe either.

More marines? A second Space Marine Codex and -Five- forking Chaos codexes?

In the grim darkness of the far future, there are only marines.

Tau, Eldar, Imperial Guard, lend me your ear. Now is the time to put aside our differences and put it to these glory boys. We need to thin these guys out.

Well done, Games Buckshot.

maybe the 5 dexes are one big one for undivided, then mini ones for each god? kinda like how they had the old craftworld eldar book? I kinda like the idea of having a book for each god if it's got a lot of (good) fluff and stuff, and as long as it won't be $100+ to have all 5

Oh wonderful! FOUR Chaos codices!? Does that mean we'll no longer be able to field CSMs w/ 2 or more different gods?

And SM Redux???

This is just getting ridiculous. If I have to keep buying a new separate codex for every faction and then every sub-faction every 2 years, I'll take my business elsewhere.

Five Codexes is two and a half years of studio time. Two and a half years where we are getting the same stuff. If we only get two codexes a year, that's two and a half years where we aren't getting xenos, guard, or Inquisition codexes.

Between Marines with feathers, marines with fangs, marines with open sores, and marines with tentacles, that's five years of marines.

*yawn* Lame.

Agreed. No reason to do 5 codexes. two tops. As has been said earlier, a undivided and one for the four poewers is sufficient.

I also agree about taking my business elsewhere.

Not becuase I am waiting for these armies for me to play with, but for my opponents to play with so i dont have to sit across the table and stare at marines everytime I go to play.

Next edition, they should make marines the LAST codex to be visitied if the marine codex gets done twice in the same edition.

I really, really hate these rumors. Maybe I'm bitter because I'm tired, but it all sounds like crap. I'm going to have to buy 5 codexes to play chaos? That's insane. The current 'dex is fine in that it encompasses all of the variations to a good, playable extent. If this rumor is true there better be extensive LatD type units included. I love my DE, and I don't want GW to touch them. I simply have no faith in them to make them decent. The current rules are very playable, and I kinda doubt the new ones will be.

The only good news I see is that Ordos Xenos might FINALLY come out some time. But I'm not going to hold my breath.

This has killed a lot of my hope about future releases. I dunno. Maybe it's not true.

When they do do the new Chaos undivided it would be nice to see some trator guard in there or something

Funny how I used to hear people complain that Chaos was only in one codex. Now they come out with more, and most likely a lot more options, people female dog bout it just the same. Why don't we just wait and see. I like the proposed Marine Codex Redux changes. I am curious if there will be anything more that they have found over time.