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I often see complaints about the pricing of GW kits, and while I would love them to be cheaper, I feel more and more that I don't really care.

When I built my 10th Crimson Hunter, I was down to about 20/30 minutes for a clean assembly with every mould line cleaned and everything perfectly fit.
That must be my personal record in assembling miniatures, yet I could say that just the assembly of that model cost me more than the model itself (@20% off).

Then comes the painting.... and I know I've spent between 3 and 4 hours just inking the deep lines of a Wave Serpent and then lining every ridge on it - sure the priming and the airbrush base coat / highlighting didn't take more than 15 minutes total - but the miniature wasn't even finished by then.

I've been trying to work with painting and assembly services, took a long look around and the conclusion is that if I wanted someone else to take care of my miniatures about as well as I do, it would easily cost me 2 to 3 times the price of the miniature.

And even then, I think those people are still not making good money...


So I have to ask, do you also have the impression that most of the money is in the work we do on our miniatures rather than the kits themselves ?

Yes the majority investment is time. I can make money more quickly than I can assemble and paint.
I suppose it depends on your income and painting standards.
Let's say I get paid £100 per day.
Let's then take £100 of GW kits.
There are few that I could build and paint properly within a day.

Your poll and post are a bit confusing though. I'm scared to click anything.

If you're buying a mini and then paying a professional to build, clean and paint it to a high level, you're going to find that the mini only makes up maybe 10-20% of the cost.

Even at minimum wage it's barely viable.
£6.70x8 hours
£53.60 per day.
So if you can full assemble, paint and base a Start collecting box in a day you're breaking even.

Some other £50 kits are more achievable like their terrain or a vehicle but even doing 10 assault marines in a day would be a push.
Basically it depends on quality.

Your mileage may vary with other companies though.
Flames of War is a good example of expensive and easy to assemble and paint, does that make it bad value?

Where's the option for 'Don't care, not buying it for that price'?

It does not matter how long it takes me to paint it - if I do not think the model is worth what they are charging then on the shelf it stays.

Forge World has models that are much more expensive than the standard run for GW - but are are often of greater value to me than paying $25 for a piece of mass produced plastic gak.

The Auld Grump

I voted 90%. The other 10% is glue, the odd tool, and paint.

I don't cost my time. It's my hobby time. Cost per hour is work. While I know people who build and paint armies for others, that's also their work. They're lucky enough to enjoy it, and get paid for it. Also, if I costed it, I really couldn't afford it.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Where's the option for 'Don't care, not buying it for that price'?

It does not matter how long it takes me to paint it - if I do not think the model is worth what they are charging then on the shelf it stays.

Forge World has models that are much more expensive than the standard run for GW - but are are often of greater value to me than paying $25 for a piece of mass produced plastic gak.

The Auld Grump

I'm building an Eldar Vampire Hunter... that thing still costs a lot more to assemble than new from FW (230 pounds when it was listed) - It's the hardest resin model I've ever seen.

But I see your point, I mean if you feel it's a rip off, why buy it.

The way I see it, nobody other than GW sells such an interesting range (to me, Eldar) with such detail at such a price.

I don't even see any company that makes plastics as good as GW's for a comparable price, so when people tell me it's overpriced, I have to ask.... compared to what ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

stroller wrote:
I voted 90%. The other 10% is glue, the odd tool, and paint.

I don't cost my time. It's my hobby time. Cost per hour is work. While I know people who build and paint armies for others, that's also their work. They're lucky enough to enjoy it, and get paid for it. Also, if I costed it, I really couldn't afford it.

I understand that you're having fun doing it and it shouldn't be compared to work - but still, I think it brings an interesting perspective.

For me, it's nearly $50 net/hour, so when I spent two hours on just the lining of that Wave Serpent, it was 100 bucks, quite relaxing and quite satisfying.
And the Vampire Hunter I'm working on will have "costed" more than $500 to assemble and prep lol.


I think that kind of information can become useful if you're treating part of the process as "work", like resin cleanup and repair can be, to help you realize whether you should try and find someone to do the dirty work for you or just continue like that.

Don't forget to also calculate time spend transporting and acquiring those kits / models.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Don't forget to also calculate time spend transporting and acquiring those kits / models.

Now we're talking

morgoth wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Where's the option for 'Don't care, not buying it for that price'?

It does not matter how long it takes me to paint it - if I do not think the model is worth what they are charging then on the shelf it stays.

Forge World has models that are much more expensive than the standard run for GW - but are are often of greater value to me than paying $25 for a piece of mass produced plastic gak.

The Auld Grump

I'm building an Eldar Vampire Hunter... that thing still costs a lot more to assemble than new from FW (230 pounds when it was listed) - It's the hardest resin model I've ever seen.

But I see your point, I mean if you feel it's a rip off, why buy it.

The way I see it, nobody other than GW sells such an interesting range (to me, Eldar) with such detail at such a price.

I don't even see any company that makes plastics as good as GW's for a comparable price, so when people tell me it's overpriced, I have to ask.... compared to what ?

Compared to Dreamforge.

Or Kromlech.

Or Wargame Exclusive.

Or Perry Miniatures.

Or Warlord Miniatures.

Or Reaper Miniatures.

Or even Mantic Miniatures - the Mantic figures are rough - but I do not feel ripped off like I do when dealing with GW.

GW charges too much for what they deliver - it is really that simple.

What they are producing is plastic model kits - mass produced from high impact plastic. Cheap plastic models that cost them pennies to produce, once the mold(s) is created.

What they charge would be more at home for high quality resin from a boutique manufacturer. But that is not what they are selling. (On the flip side - that is what Forge World is selling, and why I do not complain about Forge World prices.)

The Auld Grump - I do not want to pay Mercedes prices for a Yugo.

@TheAuldGrump: if you think that your analogy is correct, then it must be quite a while since you bought a GW kit...
they are not even close to your Mercedes/Yugo comparison...
actually, they are engineered with such precision these days, that you are getting Mercedes quality for Mercedes prices....

i am working on the new Space Wolves character from the Burning of Prospero box, and the small chains that hold his boltgun over his shoulder actually have spaces between the tiny links that are so clean, it even surprised me...
his detail is so crisp, all the way down to his long canine teeth...

now, if you think Mercedes is too expensive, and would rather purchase a Ford, that's fair enough, but the quality of GW's current designs are far from a Yugo...

funny you should mention Forge World, because i feel the opposite about their quality of resin casting versus Citadel plastics...
FW is usually a nightmare to prep in comparison, and i've been put off by poor casting quite a few times...
i would much rather work with HIPS, any day of the week...
that is one of the reasons that the two Horus Heresy box sets have been a Godsend...
the sculpts are perfectly cast, go together like a dream, and require the minimum amount of prep...

as for being cheap plastic models, remember that they are not cheap once the mold is created, but rather once it is paid off...
also, you are not simply paying for the cost of model and molds, but also all the designers' work...
the money spent on products also goes to cover the entirety of a company's overhead...

if you are not happy with a price, that is understandable, but at least inspect a current model in hand before you comment on the quality of the product

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:

funny you should mention Forge World, because i feel the opposite about their quality of resin casting versus Citadel plastics...

Yup... and that's the only area where some recasters (be they chinese or just other companies casting resin) just completely outdo GW.
I do hope that as part of the general GW improvement process they will improve FW casting with less warping, less mold lines and especially removing the release agent before shipping.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

morgoth wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Where's the option for 'Don't care, not buying it for that price'?

It does not matter how long it takes me to paint it - if I do not think the model is worth what they are charging then on the shelf it stays.

Forge World has models that are much more expensive than the standard run for GW - but are are often of greater value to me than paying $25 for a piece of mass produced plastic gak.

The Auld Grump

I'm building an Eldar Vampire Hunter... that thing still costs a lot more to assemble than new from FW (230 pounds when it was listed) - It's the hardest resin model I've ever seen.

But I see your point, I mean if you feel it's a rip off, why buy it.

The way I see it, nobody other than GW sells such an interesting range (to me, Eldar) with such detail at such a price.

I don't even see any company that makes plastics as good as GW's for a comparable price, so when people tell me it's overpriced, I have to ask.... compared to what ?

Compared to Dreamforge.

Or Kromlech.

Or Wargame Exclusive.

Or Perry Miniatures.

Or Warlord Miniatures.

Or Reaper Miniatures.

Or even Mantic Miniatures - the Mantic figures are rough - but I do not feel ripped off like I do when dealing with GW..

To my knowledge, none of these companies sell comparable plastics. I even think some of them are still on metal / resin.

Dreamforge : nowhere close to the GW level of detail / crispness
Kromlech: Only resin. sometimes just comparable to GW plastics in detail
Wargame Exclusive: resin rip offs
Perry Miniatures: only historic in plastic
Warlord Miniatures: tiny range in plastic (maybe just starters) - not cheaper than GW, lower level of detail
Reaper Miniatures: Vast amount of low definition miniatures - do they even make plastic miniatures ?
Mantic Miniatures: as you said, low definition

I still don't see which company here provides a wide and deep range of high definition plastic miniatures... I must be blind.

I think you should just replace your post contents with : " I seriously hate GW's guts ", it would be a lot more informative than the current content.

 jah-joshua wrote:
as for being cheap plastic models, remember that they are not cheap once the mold is created, but rather once it is paid off...
also, you are not simply paying for the cost of model and molds, but also all the designers' work...
the money spent on products also goes to cover the entirety of a company's overhead...

It doesn't matter, injection moulded plastic is a mass production casting method.

It may have cost them $10,000 to pay the designer and machine the moulds, but once that's done the difference between casting 2 sprues and casting 1 sprue is very little.

So people are right in seeing the lack of value when they need 80 Orks or Termagants or Guardsmen to make an army but they're sold in packs of 10 to 12 for $29 each.

Then you look at a company like Perry selling 36 to 42 infantry per box for only $25 each.

if you are not happy with a price, that is understandable, but at least inspect a current model in hand before you comment on the quality of the product

Can I ask, do you often paint armies for the purpose of gaming or just individual models for the purpose of display?

If it's the latter, I can see where you're coming from. GW models aren't really all that expensive if you just paint a few of them here and there to put on display, though at that point you should be comparing them to other models intended for display against which IMO they don't always compare favourably. For playing a game, however, a model like Krom Dragongaze, which is quite a nice looking model, is still $30 for what amounts to a single small sprue on top of the hundreds of dollars you spent on the rest of the army.

GW pricing wouldn't be as bad if they marketed themselves as a skirmish game that revolves around those few expensive character models.

Instead they mass produce models for a large scale game but charge skirmish game prices.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

morgoth wrote:
I still don't see which company here provides a wide and deep range

That's the main thing GW have going for them. They've stuck with 40k and WHFB/AoS for decades so they've accumulated a very large range (though some of the older stuff is much lower quality while still having quite high price tags, I'm looking at you Cadians).

If you're including transport as a cost, why not just blow it through the roof, and add whatever your hourly rate is to online browsing time? Searching for the right model, the right options and wargear and the right tactics before and after the purchase? However, how do you "cost" looking but not buying?

stroller wrote:
If you're including transport as a cost, why not just blow it through the roof, and add whatever your hourly rate is to online browsing time? Searching for the right model, the right options and wargear and the right tactics before and after the purchase? However, how do you "cost" looking but not buying?

I would say you will always have to look .. but you could cost that separately and consider a wargaming consultant . haha.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:
as for being cheap plastic models, remember that they are not cheap once the mold is created, but rather once it is paid off...
also, you are not simply paying for the cost of model and molds, but also all the designers' work...
the money spent on products also goes to cover the entirety of a company's overhead...

It doesn't matter, injection moulded plastic is a mass production casting method.

It may have cost them $10,000 to pay the designer and machine the moulds, but once that's done the difference between casting 2 sprues and casting 1 sprue is very little.

So people are right in seeing the lack of value when they need 80 Orks or Termagants or Guardsmen to make an army but they're sold in packs of 10 to 12 for $29 each.

Then you look at a company like Perry selling 36 to 42 infantry per box for only $25 each.

if you are not happy with a price, that is understandable, but at least inspect a current model in hand before you comment on the quality of the product

Can I ask, do you often paint armies for the purpose of gaming or just individual models for the purpose of display?

If it's the latter, I can see where you're coming from. GW models aren't really all that expensive if you just paint a few of them here and there to put on display, though at that point you should be comparing them to other models intended for display against which IMO they don't always compare favourably. For playing a game, however, a model like Krom Dragongaze, which is quite a nice looking model, is still $30 for what amounts to a single small sprue on top of the hundreds of dollars you spent on the rest of the army.

GW pricing wouldn't be as bad if they marketed themselves as a skirmish game that revolves around those few expensive character models.

Instead they mass produce models for a large scale game but charge skirmish game prices.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

morgoth wrote:
I still don't see which company here provides a wide and deep range

That's the main thing GW have going for them. They've stuck with 40k and WHFB/AoS for decades so they've accumulated a very large range (though some of the older stuff is much lower quality while still having quite high price tags, I'm looking at you Cadians).

as i said, Skink, i understand if people don't see the value...
the point that sales of a company's product pay for their overhead still stands...
the Perry twins are their own designers, and have minimal overhead, which is why they can charge less...
GW is quite an expensive company to run, so their minis are expensive...
i do, however, agree with the point that is often raised saying "cheaper product's would lead to an increase in sales"


i paint whatever i am hired to paint, armies or single minis...
i buy entire armies for myself, but they are "dream projects" in boxes at the moment, because my commission queue has been booked solid for the last twelve years...

i only collect minis...
i don't have another hobby, such as collecting comic books, action figures, video gaming, or whatever...
since minis are my thing, i am happy to spend my spare cash on the ones i want, but not the ones that are cheapest just to save a buck...
i want what i want, not a substitute...

i'm not sure what your metric for quality of a miniature is, but here is mine: how well is it cast, how crisp are the details, how light are the mold lines, how well does the model go together...
Krom Dragongaze gets top marks in all of these categories...

if you think i should be comparing Citadel minis to "display" models, rest assured that i do, every single day...
sitting in front of me right now is Nuts Planet's Shield-maiden bust and PP's Pirate Queen Skarre bust, both are beautiful casts, and great sculpts...
i also have three Kingdom Death boutique resin Pin-Ups, all great sculpts, but a horrible mess of mold lines...
none of these make the new Space Wolves character from The Burning of Prospero, The Fell-Hand, look bad in comparison...
in fact, he is the one i choose to work on in my spare moments from working on the KD commission...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
the Perry twins are their own designers, and have minimal overhead, which is why they can charge less...

They still have to pay themselves wages. If you're expanding your company and can't afford to keep good prices, it just shows you don't know what you're doing.

GW bought their own casting machinery, I don't know if they also have the CNC's to cut their moulds but if they do then they should be able to provide models for even less because they aren't paying a 3rd party to do that work for them.

i want what i want, not a substitute...

I get that, but it's not an argument for value. Just because you really want a Ford instead of a Chevy doesn't mean you can't compare the value of a Ford to a Chevy.

One of the kits I'm currently working on is a 1/32 Special Hobby Hawker Tempest. I bought it because I very much wanted a Tempest and this is the only one anyone makes in 1/32 scale.... but it doesn't stop me realising that Tamiya makes 1/32 scale kits that are better value for money.... they just don't make a Tempest.

i'm not sure what your metric for quality of a miniature is

It depends what I'm using the model for. Rarely do I buy a GW model for display purposes because frankly I don't think they make good display models, so I don't really rate their value as display models as being very high. If I'm going to paint something for display it's usually not going to be a 28mm infantry model.

For a wargaming model things like ease of assembly and ease of removing mould lines are important. Extraneous details don't rank highly because it's simply something more to paint. Having good proportions and sharp detail is important, but excessive detail is a negative for something I plan to play games with and need to paint 10's or 100's of them.

I don't disagree a model like Krom is a nice looking 28mm model.... but it's not models like Krom in and of themselves that make people shudder at GW's prices. GW price EVERYTHING like it's a Ferrari, even the models that are beat up 1980's Fords, that's why in my last post I also mentioned things like Cadians, Orks, Termagants. Not only are you paying a premium for the fancy character model, you've already spent hundreds of dollars on models that are only "average". Not even all the armies have nice fancy character models like the Space Marines do.

If I'm going to rate Krom as a display model rather than a wargaming model I don't think he holds up well largely because he's too detailed for his small size. From a few feet away he just looks like a blob of detail. A good display model to me catches your eye from across the room and then you get up close and are blown away by the detail. There's not really many 28mm infantry models I rate highly in terms of being display models, mainly the more simple ones like the old Bretonnian Sorceress model.

those are all fair points, Skink...
all it points out, though, is that we measure value for money differently, and have different taste in miniatures...

i think that Krom makes a perfect display mini, because his detail is beautifully sculpted and cast...
he doesn't look like a blob at all from a few feet away, to me...
he has a very eye-catching silhouette, with the mohawk standing up, the axe out, and the cape flowing...
i think it does make someone want to get a closer look at this wild Space Viking warrior...
different strokes for different folks...

cheers
jah

LOL at the idea of perry plastics not being comparable due to being historic.

May as well come out and say that no other plastic models are comparable as they are not space marines.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
LOL at the idea of perry plastics not being comparable due to being historic.

May as well come out and say that no other plastic models are comparable as they are not space marines.

No... But for some people it seems to be hard to understand that historical minis are not an appropriate substitute for (High) Fantasy or SciFi games...

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
LOL at the idea of perry plastics not being comparable due to being historic.

May as well come out and say that no other plastic models are comparable as they are not space marines.

Of course they're not comparable... we're talking about fantasy / scifi miniatures on a scifi wargame themed forum.

To be quite precise, for me personally - and this has drifted so far off-topic it's .... - here's why there are no alternatives to GW:

I like good quality sculpts, most other ranges don't compare well to GW.
I like Eldar, nobody else makes space elves like them.
I like to collect, nobody else has ranges from guardian to Phantom Titan.

To me, there is absolutely no alternative and I'm very happy that GW doesn't charge even more - I would love them to charge less, but that's true about everything anyway.

But let's get back on topic, how much does the price of these miniatures affect the final bill ?
Does it really matter if it cost you 25 bucks if you spent hours having fun with it ? How much is a movie ticket these days ?

There are no alternatives because I like Eldar and nobody else makes them. Gotcha.

BTW.....this forum isn't only Scifi.

morgoth wrote:
But let's get back on topic, how much does the price of these miniatures affect the final bill ?

No one is silly enough to bill their own hobby time

Does it really matter if it cost you 25 bucks if you spent hours having fun with it ? How much is a movie ticket these days ?

Hours spent per dollar is a poor measure of value.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

morgoth wrote:
But let's get back on topic, how much does the price of these miniatures affect the final bill ?

No one is silly enough to bill their own hobby time

Does it really matter if it cost you 25 bucks if you spent hours having fun with it ? How much is a movie ticket these days ?

Hours spent per dollar is a poor measure of value.

And yet, many are silly enough to spend a vast amount of time prepping miniatures when they don't even enjoy doing that.

i agree with you, morgoth...
when i am looking for a Space Marine Assault Squad, a set of mounted Crusaders is not going to take its place, even if it costs 1/3 less

on topic: i voted 10%, since my commission price averages 10x the value of a kit...


"Hours spent per dollar is a poor measure of value."
i completely diasgree, Skink...
surely the amount of enjoyment that you get from a kit is the best measure of value...
what is the point of buying something cheap, if you are not going to enjoy it???
i would much rather spend more money, knowing that i am going to get many hours of enjoyment out of that purchase, rather than get a cheap substitute that is not going to make me happy...

cheers
jah

morgoth wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

morgoth wrote:
But let's get back on topic, how much does the price of these miniatures affect the final bill ?

No one is silly enough to bill their own hobby time

Does it really matter if it cost you 25 bucks if you spent hours having fun with it ? How much is a movie ticket these days ?

Hours spent per dollar is a poor measure of value.

And yet, many are silly enough to spend a vast amount of time prepping miniatures when they don't even enjoy doing that.

Most hobbies are a mixture of things you enjoy and things you don't enjoy or find tedious. Occasionally you get a hobby you exclusively enjoy, but usually it's a mix.

But either way you still don't bill yourself for that time. If you find it so tedious you're going to pay someone else to do it, fine, add that cost on, but your own time spent on the hobby has little to no monetary value compared to what you earn in your day job.

jah-joshua wrote:when i am looking for a Space Marine Assault Squad, a set of mounted Crusaders is not going to take its place, even if it costs 1/3 less

And no body is denying that so I don't even know why it comes up as a topic all the time

Just because you want the Assault Squad and are happy paying 3 times the price for said Assault squad doesn't absolve it of the fact they cost 3 times the price

"Hours spent per dollar is a poor measure of value."
i completely diasgree, Skink...
surely the amount of enjoyment that you get from a kit is the best measure of value...
what is the point of buying something cheap, if you are not going to enjoy it???
i would much rather spend more money, knowing that i am going to get many hours of enjoyment out of that purchase, rather than get a cheap substitute that is not going to make me happy...

No, you don't disagree with me, you just misconstrued what I meant, as evidenced by your supporting argument reinforcing what I said that hours spent per dollar is a poor measure of value.... you clearly DON'T just value hours spent poor dollar, you also care how much "fun" you're having and how much you value that specific type of fun.

You don't go out and buy which ever model is going to give you the most hours modelling time with no consideration for anything else because that would be insane.

I also never said go out and buy something cheaper if it doesn't make you happy because that would be insane

But the fact you're going to spend 20 hours or whatever building and painting it doesn't mean I'm going to bill myself $800 for it nor does it mean I'm going to ignore that it is a piece of plastic that is overpriced compared to other similar pieces of plastic.

Though I wonder if many people maybe have more cosmopolitan tastes than you, you seem to enjoy painting Space Marines above all else where as I could buy 2 boxes of Space Wolves for $74 RRP and get around 30-40 hours of modelling and painting time out of them. Alternatively, I could buy 1 box of Perry Agincourt French Infantry for $25 RRP and also get 30-40 hours of modelling and painting time out of them. Both of which will give me a similar amount of enjoyment. There might be some days I prefer to do the Space Wolves and other days I'll prefer to do the French infantry, but neither of them is going to make me less happy in the long run. What I end up buying is a balance of what I feel like working on at the time and what I feel is worth the money. GW have fallen pretty far in the latter category to the point I don't feel like working on them as often anymore and indeed haven't bought many GW figures in the past few years.

If Space Marines are the only thing that make you happy, that's a limitation you've made for yourself

I tend to look at my hobby purchases in the context of entertainment dollar per hour. In other words, I'm only counting the hours where I am being entertained and I'm NOT counting the hours where I'm not being entertained.

Let's say I go see a typical action movie. I'm going to pay about 15 USD (ticket + popcorn) for a roughly 2 hour experience. That works out to 7.50 USD/hr.

Now, let's say I go out and buy a new PS4 game. I'll spend about 60 USD and maybe I'll play for around 30 hours. Now, obviously this depends on the game, but I tend to stay focused on a single game for about 30 hours. I'm now down to 2.00 USD/hr. Buying a video game is therefore a much more effective use of my entertainment dollars.

Finally, let's look at the Ironjawz Start Collecting box I recently bought for 85 USD. Thus far, I've spent about 8 hours assembling, basing and priming. I've spent about another 3 hours painting. I've easily spent another 3 hours tinkering with lists and about 16 hours (4 events at 4 hours each) playing the game. We'll call it around 30 hours SO FAR. That works out to 2.83 USD/hr. Once I finish painting and play dozens more times, that will drop well below the 1.00 USD/hr mark.

I know that we all think of this hobby as being very expensive, but the reality is that IF you actually assemble, paint and play with everything you buy, the cost per hour of entertainment is actually incredibly low. In fact, it's one of the cheapest forms of entertainment I've found.

Now, if you DON'T actually assemble, paint and play with your purchases, the hobby becomes ridiculously expensive. Let's say I'd spent about 5 min at the store picking out the box and then simply stuck it on the shelf at home. I spent 85 USD for 5 min worth of entertainment... if you can even call it that. That works out to over 1,000 USD/hr of entertainment.

I'm assuming that my time has no value as these are all hours I've set aside for entertainment. My expectation is that I'll be spending money to entertain myself and the fact that I could be doing something else that earns money isn't considered.

 Kriswall wrote:
I tend to look at my hobby purchases in the context of entertainment dollar per hour. In other words, I'm only counting the hours where I am being entertained and I'm NOT counting the hours where I'm not being entertained.

The problem is not all entertainment is equal. I don't just go see a movie by myself, I go with mates, maybe grab a meal together, have a few drinks. An evening spent out with mates is not comparable to an evening spent at home assembling and painting models.

I have a month off work, I'm going to buy a plane ticket and fly to a different country, travel around with a friend, see sights, stay in hotels. It's gonna cost thousands of dollars for a few weeks of entertainment. Or, ya know, I could buy an MMO for a few bucks and entertain myself at home for almost nothing.

Miniature wargaming is a hobby that involves huge amounts of tedium so the value per hour to me is almost nothing. If dollars per hour were even CLOSE to being a dominant factor in choosing a hobby I'd be doing wood carving or some such

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
I tend to look at my hobby purchases in the context of entertainment dollar per hour. In other words, I'm only counting the hours where I am being entertained and I'm NOT counting the hours where I'm not being entertained.

Miniature wargaming is a hobby that involves huge amounts of tedium so the value per hour to me is almost nothing.

And that is *exactly* my point.

If some part of it is going to annoy you anyway, why not outsource it ?

If you could work 15 minutes instead of removing mold lines for 4 hours, wouldn't you be interested ?

morgoth wrote:
If some part of it is going to annoy you anyway, why not outsource it ?

Yeah that's fine, but you don't bill yourself for your own time. You only include that cost if you DO actually outsource it.

Even if it's tedious, it's still your hobby time, I assume you aren't taking time off work to do it

If you could work 15 minutes instead of removing mold lines for 4 hours, wouldn't you be interested ?

If someone is willing to clean mould lines off my models for 1/16th of what I make in my job and still do a decent job of it, sure, but I don't think anyone is