It's been a long time since I've put files to plastic but on January 6th, something wonderful happened.
A new rulebook came out for WH40k and I fell in love with a new slough of models.
Bought a Trigon on a whim. After much reading especially here on DakDak (Thank you Shep for all the testing) it turns I probably won't field him at all.
Instead I decided to convert him into a suitably monstrous Prime. Time's a wasting so here are the WIP pics.
First up on the chopping block were the top claws. If this Trigon is going to be a leader it needs a pair of talons that show a bit of age and brawn.
A set of crushing claw forearms make for a suitable "up armoured arm".
The kit comes with distended jaws but the "connective tissue" wasn't to my liking.
The first idea was to use the tongue from the acid maw Carnifex head...
...but with quick caliper testing I realised that the bio plasma mouth is a perfect fit.
After a quick clean-up the mouth is done, mostly.
Seeing as how I really don't care to use GS too much on my projects when just precisely melting the plastic with Tamiya Extra Thin Cement
will typically do just as well if not better, the interior space of the jaws was filled with a fragment from the space set of teeth that came with the kit.
I'll post some details of the technique in a further post.
Looking at the tail there was just no way I was going to give this gribbly a rattle.
The standard pincer tip also didnt look quite deadly enough either so out came the files again. Notice, still no GS
The completely kit.
In closing before anyone asks, I probably won't be painting this for a while as I have a)school b) a ton of gribbly projects to work on before a big game in 3 weeks. Besides, I've always preferred modelling to painting. Maybe it's the fact that a knife or a file always goes where you point it. Paint on the other hand seems to have an infernal twisted mind all it's own lol.
Next Entry: Heavy-Weapon Warriors
Dark_Gear a.k.a Marc
Automatically Appended Next Post: After a year and a half of neglect, my warriors are getting some attention.
First up is a Venom cannon warrior. Due to the bulk of the gun it just seemed to awkward to be carried by hand so I figured the symbiote would be latched onto the back somehow.
The cannon was filed down to what I though it would look like without any hands wrapped around it.
Connecting it to the back is the original arm, filed round to fit into the gun's socket.
Extra protection was added to the side of the gun from a spare Trigon thorax armour plate.
A tiranid gun also isn't complete until some blood vessels keep it well nourished so I chopped up the fugly arm that normallly plugs into it.
A bit of GS was added to finish off some seams and add an extra plate on the gun.
Next up is a Barbed Strangler Warrior, based on the same priniciple of back-mounted weaponry.
This one was a bit trickier due to the fact that I wanted the ammunition sacks somewhere close to the actual gun. A lot of cutting would be involved...
Problem was solved when I realised that the forearm that carries the ammo feed is just the right size and length to replace the original gun arm.
With much filing the pieces made to match up nicely, meaning I still don't need any GS The barrel was cut off and spun in order to be properly upright and a bayonet tip was added for good measure.
The old elbow joint was used to connect the finished gun to the back along with some organic cables from 2 other gun arms that I know I'll never use.
That's it for now, comments and critiques welcome as always.
My first stab at a Tyranid Prime conversion was an attempt to get a quick build using mininal custom parts. One look at the flimsy arm and the chunky sword on a normal warrior body and I knew I had to start over. As luck would have it I stumbled upon an interesting post of DakDak. I was going to try my hand at an upsized model.
I've been fighting with a nasty cold for the past 3 days which means I've had a lot of modelling time and was able to make the time "lost" on the first concept.
First up is the chest piece. As I didn't want to mess with the proportions too much the thickness of the torso was thickened with a thinner plasticard than what was used for the width.
Incidentally, toe nail clippers, with their strong curved blade and sharp tip are much better at cutting clean edges than the GW sprue cutters. Plus they sell for about half the price.
The thighs get a similar treatment.
Completed thigh with the usual cement smoothing.
Going through the bitz bin, a carnifex headpiece catches my eye as a suitable enhancement for the tail. The tail is squared off to fit inside the drilled out part. Due to some precise filing and the ubiquitous Tamiya extra thin cement, still no GS required for a seamless assembly.
In light of model's bigger size I figure it can hold a deathspitter in one hand so the weapon gets filed down until the support hand is gone.
Finger holes are drilled out and smoothed with more Tamiya cement. The elbow gets drilled out to make the arm a bit longer and make it poseable.
Lash whip is next. Here I figured that a Devourer would make a suitable starting point. The angle of the handle, it's size and the selection of small tubes connecting the weapon to the arm just worked. Underneath the GS is a brass armature. I don't know what that batch of GS but it just go where I wanted it to. There were numerous hard yellow fragments that just didn't mix in at all. The more I worked on it the more chunks would work their way to the surface. I did my best to smooth it out but in the end it seemed all I could do was sculpt the stubborn areas to make them look like the that fleshy muscle we have underneath our tongue.
I primed with a quick light coat of German Grey and I'm not too sold on the end result.
Leaving it aside for now until I either get a better idea or some feedback.
Remember that Bone Sword I built at the start? I've never really been a fan of the typical square top Nid swords as they just don't look enough like bone to me. I figure they should look like sharp edged antlers and have a bunch of nasty stabby/slashy tips and edges. This might have something to do with the fact that I use to sculpt antlers into punch daggers and letter openers about 10 years ago but that's a different story :lol:.
Seeing as how the bone sword is also a symbiote that constantly heals itself to keep the edge sharp I figure it would have a decent sized body at it's base. It turns out that Rippers are the perfect size compared to a rending claw. All it needs is a bit of filing and carving to make the hand (with finger tips removed) fit inside the chitinous basket guard.
As usual I just sketch to scale directly on styrene to explore some ideas. Two shapes are keepers.
To keep the round areas intact and to cut down on filing time later on, I drill out the detail areas.
The two shapes cut out. The idea with the one on the right was that it would extend past the fleshy and create a ridge that would later be GS'd. Turns out I prefer the left one.
Filing and shaping took just under an hour. Compared to the first design, I'd call it a sizable improvement. Still some GS work to do on it but I'm thinking it's a keeper.
Having now done a fit test with the nearly finished sword arm it becomes clear that the much-maligned first version of the lash whip has to go. More as the story unfolds.
Comments, critique and suggestions (has anyone coined CC&S yet ) welcome as always.
With all the drilling ,cutting, filing, flash removal and customisation that build took about 12 hours. Hell, the mouth alone took 3 hours.
It takes a bit longer to assemble models without GS but then i find so much more satisfying when all the pieces just fit.
No but seriously, don't hold your collective breaths for some pigment on these gribblies. At least not until I'm caught up with the long list of conversions required for an upcoming battle.
Once this Prime gets sorted out the next items on the list are (in no particular order):
-16 ripper bases
-21 genestealers
-6+ sword warriors (all with custom swords thank you very much)
-12 Termagant
-4 carnifex (converted to 2 Tervigons and 2 Tiranofexes.
Once all this is done (if ever) I'll break out the airbrush and start base coating. On the positive it gives a lot of time to figure out the paint scheme.
My first and only primed Carnifex was originally painted with the idea of making it look like a giant blue beetle as illustrated below:
I even built a whole selection of magnetised heads and armour plates for that kit.
That build and monster Sniper-Fex were posted up on ATT about a year and half ago, before my extended break from the hobby, and can be found here:
Why I do believe I notice a distinct lack of legs on that Carnifex. As it happens I've been trying to get my hands on extra sets of Carnifex legs. Any chance you've just got those sitting around and would be willing to trade em out for other bitz? I've got TONS, and not just `Nid stuff.
Aduro wrote:Why I do believe I notice a distinct lack of legs on that Carnifex. As it happens I've been trying to get my hands on extra sets of Carnifex legs. Any chance you've just got those sitting around and would be willing to trade em out for other bitz? I've got TONS, and not just `Nid stuff.
Aduro,
why don't you check out a UK company called Bits & Kits - I recently added a link to the resources page in the painting & modelling section
Finished GS work on the Bone Sword. As I was working on it a little voice told me to extend the forearm downwards like a bone shield.
Gotta love it when inspiration whispers things that actually fit the goal.
Inside view
Outside view
Aduro: Why yes I do have some extra Carnie legs in the bitz bin. Need some extra for more Tervigons I presume? Unlike you I can't really see myself using them as I loathe the hoof. Contact me by PM so we can arrange something.
Deathwolf: Simple answer - Airbrush with Tamyia Blue Candy coat over a German Grey pre-shade base and post shaded with very very light German Grey is certain areas. None of the white highlights were painted but rather come from light from my flash as it bounced off the ceiling as per the following pic. Pardon the crappy quality but the good camera was too busy posing this time.
I'm back in homework mode so progress is probably on hold until next weekend. In the meantime,
Munch: Thanks very much.
Deathwolf: If you go check out an art supply store (like Michael's or Opus) you can probably find metal flake paint. While I haven't tested this myself since I painted this with an airbrush, one paint recipe you could try is mixing Mithril Silver with a dark shade of blue such as Ultramarine Blue. Add a couple drops of Future Floor Wax acrylic (yes, the floor cleaning product) to make it a bit smoother. Apply it over a base coat of Regal Blue in thin coats. Then go over the model with some Asurmen Blue or Badab Black washes before going over some key ridges with very sparse drybrushing of your earlier candy coat mixture. I'm not making any guarantees since like I said, I used and airbrush and Tamiya paints but, were I to attempt to do a sparkly blue scarab shell with GW paints, that's how I'd do it. Lemme know how it turns if you try it.
Llamahead: Feel free to steal the design. Also, I've got 8 sword blanks waiting for carving. That little voice of inspiration told me to create a squad of 8 warriors to mess up Necrons and Marines Only problem is I can see myself running out rippers for the guards. Eh well, I guess I'll just have to improvise.
Cheers,
Dark_Gear
Automatically Appended Next Post: Took a quick break from a research and stumbled upon a great source of inspiration.
Seems somebody managed to stockpile all the Cirilla 4th ed concept sketches for Nids and posted them up:
Thanks, if you're interested, a friend of mine is wanting to cast some copies in resin for his own purposes. I'll keep you informed.
Due to work there hasn't been any progress on the modelling front since Sunday. However, I did get 15 minutes to sketch out an idea for a more fearsome looking Tyrant bonesword. It would be detailed to be fully appreciated on a Warrior. I call it the Barnacle Blade. Basically, the Hive Mind assimilated some sea creature biomass and decided to put it to good use. When the barnacle symbiotes feel a target nearby they deploy acidic tendrils that latch on to the prey. Could be seen as a Tyranid chainsword if you will.
Bloody research projects at school are really dragging the Nid Time down to a minimum.
Thankfully, there is the daily commute which gave me a chance to sketch out a few more conversion ideas.
Building on the idea of arm blades as found on the Cirillo sketches, here's my own spin.
Lash Whip tip concept exploration, possibly using a cut-off tubing from the Carnifex Venom Cannon.
Thanks for the interest in the bone sword. Don't they copying is the best form of flattery? As long as I get credit for the idea, copy away.
Plans for this weekend: Build another 12 Gaunts, Work on Prime's Head and Lash Whip.
For starters, thanks to all for your interest. I've received almost 150 hits since my last post.
Let's get the simple things out of the way. In trying to get enough spare Termagants for 2 Tervigons, I've had to buy more of the little gribblies. The only way to power through them is to set up the production line.
Then I realised they were all too light so out came the air rifle pellets. Thankfully I bought a big tin because at 2 pellets per base it adds up pretty quick. It also requires a lot desk space.
I did some math from reading Battle Reports and it seems that on average, when running 2 Tervies, you can poop out about 44 Termagants before pregnancies get aborted by the dice gods. Therefore, counting the 20 that one needs to field the 2 Tervies as a troop choice, I need a minimum of 64 to make I don't run out. Maybe I could cut down on costs if I just converted some Hormogants? Mind you, if i do that then I'll never have enough to field the Apoc Without Number formation <le sigh> Still a long ways to go...
Speaking of swarms, I did some counting and realised I finally had enough rippers to start making bases. The production line was setup and ready to go.
I also found a use for those seemingly useless plastic sphincters GW includes on most Nid sprues. There are 2 designs, a 2 "cone" and a 3 "cone" base. Considering I had enough to create 2 squads of 8 bases, the squads will be differentiated by which "cone mound" it is glued to.
After the tedious bits were out of the way I finally could get back to the Tyranid Prime.
Try as I might the original deathspitter mod just wasn'nt working. It was too bulky and took away the focus from the bonesword. Furthermore, the empty lower arm was also in the way of the sword arm so I scrapped that one too. Instead, I opted for a Plain Jane deathspitter with standard feeder arm. This design changed opened up some much needed space on the model for a Lash whip more in keeping with the Sword, something that could make use of the sketch I posted at the start of the weekend.
Starting with a Ripper as a base I figured that since they are small and very simple creatures to breed, maybe they could be used as a base for more than boneswords. Who knows, maybe rippers evolved from some type of voracious sea-dwelling creature. Their biomass was taken in and their DNA was tweaked so that the flowing tentacles has fused into a long bony member or one single large powerful tentacle. If such is the case I figure that one Uber tentacle would still have elements of its previously divided self, hence it would have flesh hooks coming out of a split tip to properly snare meals, uh, I mean opponents. Which lead to this final design.
While that was curing I turned my attention to the torso. It just didn't seem like it had enough height and bulk, which meant it was time to add some extra armour.
Following this I realised the Warrior's head should also reflect its stature and status.
Here then is a close-up of the bulked up cranium and the beginnings of a bigger, more muscular throat and neck to connect the piece to the torso.
Once it cures I'll finish off the throat and bulk up the ribcage so that it all fits visually.
You actually put more pictures per post than I do, so you really need to get more replies to your stuff so I don't have to wait so long for the pages to load.
And I totally need to steal that Lashwhip idea, as I could not build one I liked myself.
Can't help it for the photos, I'm a photographer who also loves to see other people's process. You just need to get a faster connection to make it not seem so slow lol
I'm really stumped about the lack of replies, not just in my thread mind you just in general. Like I said in my last post, received about 150 since my Saturday post yet not one reply... Maybe people are just shy, who knows.
As for that Lash whip, if your bitz box is anything like what I have after buying 5 Carnifex kits, you should have more than enough premade bitz of tubing to choose from. Cut the ammunition cord from the barbed strangler as close to the hand as possible and you'll have a great starting point.
Gratz on making top-10 in the BoLS comp by the way. You're up against some pretty stiff competition so good luck you could really use another model to work on.
This is all really awesome, inspiring stuff. I love your use of bitz and scratchbuilding to really give your models some individuality.
This is how a Hive Fleet should be built!
Rhino: Glad you're enjoying the personalisation that's going on. I have to admit that I've been looking at Hive Fleet Moloch for the last year. While I may be sorely locking in the basing department, there is something to be said about converting every single model so that they all have a bit of personality instead of looking like gene spliced clones.
Aduro: Even though other submissions are really well done, you really need to get bonus points for the originality of your design. As I pointed out in your P&M Blog, by my reckoning you're the first one to come up with the four-hoof-legged Carnifex. Therefore, it should now be referred to an Aduro Pattern(tm)
Much like Aduro, I'm not just posting this project here. Resinaddict.com, which is a very small community of hard-core modders, is where I spend most of my time. Most of the members on Resinaddict are people who decided to leave more "army specific" sites (such as advancedtautactica.com) in order to just push their conversion and painting skills to the max, regardless of game system and typical painting conventions. Think of it the gamer's equivalent to historical modelling.
Anyways, in an effort to not put as many pics in posts, here's an excerpt from my most recent update from that site's last batch of comments.
The workspace: I just had to laugh. If the desk looks clean it's only because it's a mixed project area and my bitz box is off to the side (since it's too big to fit on the desk). School papers and reading material have to share the space with the Hive Mind Spawning Pools so I tend to stick to one project at a time. You'll also notice that I have more than one cutting mat. When it's homework time I vacuum up all the plastic shavings and shove the big green mat under the desk. My wife still hates that room because there's no space for her in the "office" and there's 40k boxes everywhere. After nearly 2 years of wedded life I've learned that the best way to keep the peace is to clean up as often as possible. 8-)
Lash Whip: Wolf, awesome bit of fluff there, you totally captured the feel I'm going for. If every symbiote weapon really does have a mind of its own why is that so many of them just does don't have any presence whatsoever? The answer is simple... To give conversion junkies a good kick of inspiration :twisted: Having looked at the design that came with the older hive guard (which I tested originally in a previous pic), the "girth" of the tentacle just seemed too slender to fit the stated purpose of tying up opponents. The slender tendrils just seem like a nuisance rather than a threat. I still feel it needs a few more blood vessels connecting it to the arm due to the bulk of the tentacle but at the same time, judging from your collective reactions, every other part of the design needs to be locked down.
Bone Sword: Now that I have a finalise Tentacle of Strangulation done, I have to agree that what looked fine before now looks a little slender. At first I felt that the careful was enough to make it mesh smoothly with the ripper's mouth but now I really need to add some GS to ease the transition and bulk out the mouth. What I'll be going for will be based on the idea that the sword should like an octopus beak on steroids, as described in this article:
Further to that I totally agree with you that the shield forearm needs some extra work. Compared to the detail of the sword, the armour cowl and the lash whip, there's a drop in sculpt quality. It was a 'first draft' attempt at the shield arm and it needs a revision. Working on it with sketches. Updates coming when its satisfactory.
If you read the first page of this lesson on Octupii you will learn a really cool detail regarding their blood that could also explain why Tau blood (and therefore skin) is blue. Their oxygen binding cells are copper based, not iron based like ours. Incidentally, copper-based blood is less oxygen efficient than iron-based blood so octopus have 3 hearts to cycle their blood. Bringing this back to Tau, maybe they are horrible at CC because their copper based blood means they have a much lower anaerobic threshold than iron-based lifeforms, such as humans.
Carapace: As clean at it looks, following a fit test with the improved cranium, I'm finding that the neck is far too exposed (pic forthcoming). In other words, the cowl needs to wrap around the whole of the carapace, not just be a peak on the top plate. Worked on bulked up cranial plates while on the bus earlier, will post the sketch as soon as I can capture it.
Future Monstrous Creature designs: First up will be a Tyrannofex so don't hold your breath for a rockin' Tervigon just yet. All I can say about them is that there is some great inspiration on Bell of Lost Souls thanks to their current conversion competition. Info can be found here:
Don't worry about posting too many pictures, that's just me giving you crap because your stuff is cool. We were just discussing today at the FLGS that I'm an arse and deserve all the abuse I get.
Ha! We'v man! As long as your modding skills can keep up with your mouth it's fine. Just keep the great work coming so we can keep swapping ideas ok? Lol
Not enough yet so I bought an extra box along with one extra Hive Guard and 2 Zooeys.
In preparation for a 2500pt game coming up on the 17th I took an inventory of the gribblies. Once everything gets assembled, points totals for the models without any upgrades beyond WYSIWYG the total works out to 3400pts. That amount deosn't take into account the 3 unbuilt Carnies which will be converted to become 1 T-Fex and 2 Tervies.
Good thing my gaming buddy doesn't care if the models are painted or not because there's no way in hell I can paint even half of that by then.
Finally some progress. Since the last update I've finished another 8-strong warrior squad, 1 genestealer and another 12 gaunts (3 with devourers and 9 with fleshborer to fill out the Tervigon baby squad). No pics of those since they are pretty standard.
Thankfully I also got some sketching time to explore a revision for the shield arm on the Tyranid Prime. The first version just seemed a
The piece I'm happiest about though is the completed shield based on the Mk3 sketch.
Hopefully I'll get enough time to finish the rest of the Prime and get to work on the T-fex by week's end.
While the GS is curing on the Prime I got some long overdue GS work done on the Tyrannofex.
Nothing says bad-ass more effectively than an up-armoured Carnifex/ Tyrannofex
I checked the distance first and added some styrene tubing as pins.
After much filling of gaps and sculpting, the finished chest plate.
@Dark_Gear: A levithan was a giant sea serpent that supposedly traveled the world's ocean. I can imagine that head on the body of a massive twenty foot long eel.
Munch: Oh that leviathan! I thought you were talking about a converted Nid with a custom, kinda like some crisis suit configuration are known Fireknife or Deathrain.
Insaniak: Thanks. I hear that a lot about the back-mounted weapon but I couldn't help but do it. The weapon is so large that when it's hand-held the whole model's design just seems flawed, in my view. The back mount still needs a bit of work to make it seem beefier, I'll give you that much.
MajorTom: Thanks as well. Maybe it's just the angle of the shot but when you look at the sword directly from the side you can see that the "lean" is in a fact a "curve", much like a saber, a katana or antlers. The first variant I did was straight like the Hive Tyrant's sword and it just seemed too much like a cleaver for my liking.
With the back-mounted weapon, I agree with you, even if it may look strange to me. But when it is handheld, the Warrior would look like he was limboing around the battlefield.
Due to work and RL the hobby had to be placed on the back burner for a good long while but thanks to a trip to the Seattle battle bunker, where they just happened to have a set of Forge World Shrike wings, the bugs have pulled me back.
There's still a lot of GS and conversion to do on these models but they are getting there.
All of them have magnetised lower arm sockets so that I can swap in swords and/or whips once they are done. For the time being these Shrikes are a flying shooting squad that gives some extra range support for advancing Gargoyles, which are in turn only there to screen the eventual Harpy by flying in front of it or by tarpitting marine heavy weapon squads. In my last game, 14 gargoyles tied up a 10 man tactical for 3 turns, allowing the rest of the force to get closer without being shot to bits.
The whole Nid army is being based to fit within an urban setting so I've been playing with materials to give the squad the appearance of quickly landing on, leaping from and jinking through rubble.
Most have had brass rod inserted in their joints to solidify the surgery on their limbs. Rods were also added to serve as mounting hardware to give the models a look of floating above the bases as though they are just taking off or landing.
Thanks to a stuffed bitz bin I found I had enough rending claws left over to replace the usual hooves with a foot that seemed more appropriate for a beast that could probably snatch a full-grown human from the ground.
Once all the bases and GS for the current models is done then I'll start work on the Sword and whips for the whole bunch based on the design that was used on the Tyranid Prime that I was working on back in January. Let's just hope I can actually finish them before work gears up to 60 hours a week again.
I am completely speechless. I cant even begin to describe how incredible and inspiring all of your work is. Not only in talent, but the fact that you keep with it time and time again, many would of given up in the pile of work, but you...well do I need to say more?
Thanks for the kind words. As hard as it is to stick to the hobby when work kicks in, having a massive stockpile of minis already done really helps to not abandon it completely.
To give you an idea, the current tally of assembled models adds up to about 3500 points of nids, without the cost of upgrades. If I ever get the backlog of models fully assembled we're looking at about 4700 of nids in total (again without upgrades) or 6k with a conservative selection of combat-proven upgrades. This backlog includes:
Seeing these sorts of threads, with the incredible skill that goes into the conversions and models, always makes me want to start up a small, very small, tyranid army. Haven't played 40K in years and years, and don't really feel like learning the new rules all that much... but man, those conversions make me want some bugs of my own!
First, a lot of changes have come about to this splinter fleet. Work has been very busy since last November so what little time was left for the hobby in my schedule was spent actually "on the hobby" rather than writing "of the hobby". Beginning in December, I found a new FLGS near my house (Your Go Games) that hosts games on Sundays and painting nights on Wednesdays. They've been kind enough to supply a steady flow of biomass every weekend and the fleet has grown by about 1500 points since I last posted.
Second, a quick army progress shot to establish that yes, this army is still progressing. Pardon the quality of the pics, I'm posting iPhone pics while on lunch at work.
The best discovery of the last few months: Devilgaunts are awesome! (As long as they're supported by a Tervigon, shielded by Venomthropes and a front rank of spawned gaunts, and boosted by an Old Adversary Tyrant) The chief downside to that discovery is that end up wanting at least 30 devourer gaunts per game and need at least 44 fleshborer gaunts for the Tervigon, just in case your spawning rolls are out of control.
In the above pic some of you may have noticed a carnifex with a very large gun. That would be on-going Tyrannofex conversion, very near completion.
He still needs some armour plates on the head and the rupture cannon, some connective piping for ammo feeds, and of course some more base detail but at least it's easy to recognise what he is now. There will be a 2nd t-fex in the list at some point but for I won't start that until the current stable of conversions has finished hatching. The list includes: 1 harpy, 1 flyrant, 1 tervigon (as soon as the Arachnorok abdomen shows up in the mail).
Assembling Carnifexes without any converting makes them look like tiny babies compared to the other creatures in my army thus far. They'll probably be chopped up as their size and their current set of stubby arms just isn't doing it for me. I assembled them this way as I didn't want to field-test them as proxies.
Some of may have noticed a large amount of winged creatures lurking in the backgrounds of these shots thus far and that would due to the second best discovery of the past few months: 30 gargoyles can really tear an army apart, especially when supported by six whip/sword shrikes, a harpy and a flying Old Adversary Tyrant. (Never mind that this costs 1050 points...)
Following the purchase of those 6 shrikes that were posted last fall, I've been exploring ways to deliver them mostly unscathed to the front lines and came to the conclusion that a gargoyle cloud was the best solution. Since the gargoyles are somewhat weak in CC (though for 8points per model, who could fault them) it only makes sense that supporting Tyrant would fit right into the mix. The Harpy is there to either soften up the target or blow up the transporting vehicle and release the squishy contents. Due to the amount of bodies and the speed at which they approach, swarming vehicles and destroying disembarking squads has been a valuable tactic in the last few weeks.
Stay tuned for more and better pics as I switch to my DSLR for the details of the Flyrant and more group pictures.
Thanks Limbo. I was a total noob with GS when I started working on my nids but thankfully, they've given a great opportunity to improve over the past 2 years.
You'll be seeing more soon as I did some more GS work on the Harpy's tail last night. Also, I finally received some bitz in the mail today for which I'll do an unboxing. As a teaser, I'll just say that there will be a new Monstrous Creature Project on my bench very soon.
As promised here's some updates and detail shots on the army as it stands.
For starters, let's look at the Harpy in it's current state.
The tail was lengthened by using an armature built with some leftover sprue, as per the following shot. As you tell from the above shots, there's still a lot of filling in to do but the shape is there at least.
As for the head, although I'm not completely certain how I'll finish it yet, I knew that the bio plasma bit would fit perfectly to represent the Sonic Screech.
For the Harpy's hind legs I was looking for something that look somewhat like the Gargoyle's vestigial limbs yet not so weak. First step was chopping up one of the smaller Mawloc claws.
Second step was swapping the left and right ball joint sections with each other, thereby giving the "legs" the desired bend.
Following that came some brass wire pinning to get the right gap for future GS work.
The talons are warrior Scything talons, chopped off right at the knuckles and filed down to mesh with the shape of the forearm. No need for GS here as Tamiya's Super Thin cement worked it's usual magic, making a perfect rounded joint. Conversions with plastic are a breeze with that cement as long as you spend the time filing down your pieces for proper fit. Plus it saves on GS sculpting time. When all is said and done, these limbs will be magnetised and feature some extra plating at the ball joint to make them look more sleek and aerodynamic.
Here's the current state of the Flying Tyrant.
There's still a TON of GS work to do on this bug. The base is mostly done, just need to seal off the bottom, build up some more volume and add some texture. The tail and the talons are done. The biggest time sink at this point will be the wings. Notice the marker lines on the right hand side? That all the material I shaved off the other one to make them a bit smaller and thus fit better size-wise with the tyrant. Once the shaping is done I'll be filling in every wing section with more GS to retexture the wings completely. I just really hate the lack of detail in the Balrog wings but they are a great framework nonetheless. Next set of wings I'll just build myself and get the right amount of detail right from the start.
To anyone else who's thinking of using them for their own conversion projects here's a quick warning about them. They are actually quite thick in the middle, 3mm in fact. Why is this bad? If you decide to try and model some battle damage such as bullet holes in the skin, the thickness of the wings makes the holes look like tunnels. In other words, these wings are too thick to make good looking battle tears in the skin unless you want to take huge chunks of material out prior to filling in said gaps with thin GS work. Do yourself a favour and either keep these wings "unpunctured". If you really want battle-scarred wings and you're not too confident in your GS skills, look elsewhere. The reason I'm retexturing both wings is because I drilled through the wings and realised only too late that their thickness made the holes look like gak.
Keep on checking in, the unboxing will be tomorrow.
3 weeks ago I won some Arachnorok bitz for 14$ (including shipping). As cool as the spider looks there was no way I was spending 75$ for the whole kit when all I'd be using is the torso.
I was expecting the torso and abdomen to be big but they're actually huge. The rear end is bigger than a Kinder Egg, and much larger than a fully built Carnifex.
In spite of the other 3 creatures on the workbench at this time, I just had to put them aside and start working on a mockup of the Tervigon right away. Rather than assemble the Tervigon with a flipped around Carnifex torso to give the model a more "upright" stance, I'll be going for a "leaning forward" look as though it's actually running forward, trying to get the deadly payload to it's destination. To get that look means that I'll be using the hips and spine off the carnifex kit to join the two kits together.
After that first cut I started working out how the legs would be positioned, how long they've have to be and which socket joints to use. One of the first things I realised is that a Carnifex head is way too small to work on this conversion. Thankfully, the Harpy is still very much a WIP and it's head, though magnetised, looked like a much better fit. On to the first blue-tac mock-up.
The back legs are going to get thoroughly beefed up to make them look like they actually support all that weight... Baby got back! The Trigon head will be needing some major work as well, either to help mesh the armour of the skull with the body or to reference the first big Alien Mother we've all seen.
Started cutting up the model to bring in some bitz from the carnifex kit and make a more seamless transition between the 2 abdomens.
Then followed that up with a big cut to give the proper shape and dynanic positioning. Otherwise was looking like it was all too well aligned. A bloated belly of that size would definitely sway a lot during movement.
Looking down on the model, you can now see a more pronounced twist to the body.
Did some more work on the rear legs. After deciding I wanted some stronger looking legs, unused talons from the Trigon kit were brought in. The back ones seemed a little too short so I made them longer and beefier by chopping the Scything talon hand off of the larger Carnifex arm, replacing it with a Trigon's second largest Scything Talon that was cut just above the 2nd lowest plate. The longer Carnifex talon was then added back on. GS will be added to smooth out the transition.
From the back now, started converting the pooped out gaunt. Eventually I'll have it magnetised on the base and it will be used as a marker to show whether or not the Tervigon can produce more babies. The rear leg is currently resting on a paint lid as it will be pressed against some terrain on the base.
Close-up shot of the baby gaunt coming out and landing on the ground. The left shin has to be built up with some GS. The neck get some filling in as well to create the tendons that connect the body and the jow more smoothly.
Final image. Comparison shot of the different heights for Gargoyle bases. After struggling with keeping the little blighters from constantly falling over during assault and movement as well as not being able to stack them properly base to base, I decided to make some changes. Notice the washer on the bottom to give the models a good bit of weight so they don't topple like dominoes as well as the tiny magnet to speed up the setup process. When you have to stick in 30 flying bases by hand, you come to think that there just has to be a better way to get your models on the table. The magnets are actually strong enough to pick up the whole base even though the bottom washer is quite heavy. Just pull them all apart when you package them without having to worry about the small tip of the stands snapping off inside the Gargoyle bodies anymore.
Hope you enjoyed the show. Comments and critiques welcome. Stay tuned for more.
Thanks Bangbangboom. The Flyers are scary indeed. When playing I usually run about 970 points of fliers in a 2k game. Deploying in table quarters in such cases really blows as the list can easily take up the whole quarter. The major upside is that pretty much everything gets a cover save.
Typical list read this:
Flyrant | Sword + Whip, Brainleech, Adrenals, Old Adversary.
Turn one I usually cast catalyst on the gargoyles and also run the Venomthrope just in range of them so they can get a 5++ save and FNP, making them much sturdier in the first turn of torrent fire. By the time I get them to assault in turn they're usually only down to 14-15 models. Whatever they hit, supported by Shrikes and Old Adversary Tyrant just melts, including terminators in cover.
The flyers run after the ojectives to contest while the rest of the foot pounders go up to the mid field, pound the enemy from a distance and keep a few stragglers to keep the home objectives safe. By the time I get to midfield the pooped gaunts serve as cover for the devilgaunts, Hive Guard and Biovores and I basically focus fire one unit at time until there is little left. 60 devourer shots, 12 Impaler cannon shots and 6 biovores tend to chew units up quite quickly, even T5 FNP models.
If my opponent is suicidal enough to try and assault them on turn 1 (while they're in range of the Venomthropes) things go even worse for them.
Painting will happen eventually but I'm holding off until I finish the next batch of models. Currently on the table:
1 Tervigon
1 Harpy
1 Flyrant
1 Tyrannofex
2 Dakkafexes,
10 more gaunts (call me insane but I'm working on a list with 48 Devilgaunts. Something about 144 S4 shots just appeals to me...)
In my last bout of painting I think I did a two-tone job on about 120 models. The idea is to just paint the rest of the army in one go and just get it done. We'll see how that goes when I hit the wall of 100 gaunts...
Did some more sculpting on the Tervigon last night, slowly refining the pose and filling in some gaps so I can start assembly. Pictures incoming as soon as I'm done with work.
Thinking back to last night I just had to wonder: How many other modellers out there actually spend 1 hour working on just one limb for a conversion? Just curious.
First up, details of the torso plate. This piece will go between the 2 front legs.
It's made from the leftovers of a chopped Carnifex carapace. The two parts were filed down to get the joining angle and the width just right. As per usual, I tried to use the least amount of GS as possible by cleaning the joint between the two pieces as well as possible since in some cases, the Tamiya extra thin cement makes a better sculpting aid. Put a few big drops of the cement on the zone you want smoothed out, let it seep in and then "sculpt" the joint with a paintbrush as you draw the pool of liquid plastic across the surface.
Voila! No Green Stuff yet seamless
In my previous post I asked if anyone ever spent more than an hour on just one leg of a conversion. Here's the reason behind that.
The left rear leg sorely needed to be reposed so it got chopped in 3. First the "elbow hook" and the throw the joint. The resulting flat surfaces were hollowed out and the exterior surfaces were resculpted so I could insert the elbow hook at a tweaked angle. The two arm pieces were then pinned with brass. The hook was glued into place and allowed to set while I mixed some GS. Finally I added the exposed "tyranid muscles" and rebuilt the bottom edges of the bicep armour.
Now on to the main event.
Before gluing the legs to the body I needed to get the GS down on the joints and the little spiders hiding in the crevices of the belly.
Some of the holes were filled in smooth while others were given a different treatment. I've been wondering why adrenal glands and toxin sacs on a Tervigon get passed on to the nearby gaunts and came up with the idea that the "Big Mother" secretes hormones that inspire the nearby gribblies, driving them on to feats of strength by increasing their desire to protect the tervigon. What better way to explain counterattack other than to imagine gaunts zealously guarding their bigger sibling. All that fluff to say that based on my premise that the Tervigon exhudes chemicals in the air, it should probably have some glands on it's body that actually look like they spew out gases or spores or whatever. So here's where we stand on this project thus far, legs are finished, posed and 80% of the GS is done on the abdomen as well.
Hope you enjoyed the latest installment.
Next up will be progress shots of 2 Dakkafexes as I rework them. They were originally built "sans conversions" and that's just no longer acceptable.
Edit:
I'd love it if you could jump over to my 'Toolbox' thread and add the Tamiya cement. If you could also put up a shortish write up on how you use it you'd be even more of a king in my books!! Thanks"
@ LostSoul: I checked the Toolbox Thread out. Awesome link. I'll work on some quick photos and do a quick(ish) write-up on the Tamiya cement and it's multiple uses. As it turns out I did some work on some Carnifex torsos this weekend which needed some major rebuilding and smoothing, as task where the cement really shines.
Ok so here we go with the work on the Carnifexes (or is it Carnifexii).
Originally I just threw them together real quick with minimal clean-up which means there were some major gaps. Their stance was low and super hunched over and they also didn't have any conversion work done on them whatsoever. A creature the size of a Carnifex doesn't seem like it would hold it's head at the same height as a terminator, just sayin'. All told, It was interesting to finally see a "normal" Carnifex but honestly, it's just not for me. Even if I don't plan on heavy conversions, considering all my larger creatures have had some level of conversion done to them thus far, the Carnifexes still need to have some type of surgery.
First up were the torsos.
The gaps on the back edges were well gaping and the spore chimneys were also way off. This pic happened after I cleaned those up but as you can see, the rear edges need major help. Cue round needle files and the fastest solution to gap filling, Tamiya extra thin cement. Much like I did with the Tervigon's torso plate earlier in the blog, I started filing down the offending surfaces, kept as much of the plastic dust on the areas as possible then applies a few drops of liquid cement on top. The filings were melted, turning into a liquid plastic could was then dragged across the model and into the gaps where it settled and cured within a minute.
Voila, 15 minute gap filling job, no GS required. Also notice how the cement smoothed out the tail armour plates. If you apply some cement over filed down areas the cement acts as a self-leveling liquid, eliminating scratch marks much more quickly than fine sandpaper.
As for the weapon arms I didn't like using 4 of the stumpy devourer arms. The way they're angled at both the wrist and the elbow makes it really hard to pose them properly. My solution was to bulk up the front pair a bit by using larger arms.
Following some delicate cutting with a bone saw and some precise filing to adjust the fit, Tamiya cement worked it's magic and smoothed everything out.
End result, a taller model with arms that actually match the proportions of the kit (and finally dwarfs a Terminator).
Due to a mishap I had to rework one of the legs on the Tervigon. While waiting for the glue to set I got to testing a few material, DAS clay. As of yet I've never heard anything about so since I couldn't find any milliput, I figured I'd give a try on my long neglected Trigon. So after cutting and laminating two sheets of styrene to make a suitable base for the trigon, I slapped some clay on and created a channel for the monsters tail.
The clay has a very smooth texture although upon close inspection it is actually quite fibrous, as they fine short strands of "something" in the material. It's feel quite wet to the touch but dries within seconds on the hands. Unlike GS it doesn't seem to have any adhesive qualities whatsoever so I'll probably have to seal the clay with some acrylic medium before I handle it too much. Here's the Trigon on the base.
By the time I was done the glue had cured enough that I could get back to work on the Tervigon and proceeded to GS the front torso today. Nothing too complex just filling some gaps, covering up some cut off bits to smooth out a few surfaces just above the front shoulder sockets. Once that was done I sculpted in some "niddy" surface texture.
Having read through this - I'm impressed. Love how you're doing your own swarm up. And the beetle scheme? I wanted to do that so much then they upped and made all the metallic paints disappear.
It's also a case of suppliers. Until about 6 months ago we had no real alternative for modelling supplies or paints and I wasn't going to mail order everything.
I'm enthralled by your Tyranid conversions! the level of customization you are going to is extremely impressive and I have quite happily subscribed to your blog
Dark_Gear wrote:
Filing and shaping took just under an hour. Compared to the first design, I'd call it a sizable improvement. Still some GS work to do on it but I'm thinking it's a keeper.
Having now done a fit test with the nearly finished sword arm it becomes clear that the much-maligned first version of the lash whip has to go. More as the story unfolds.
Comments, critique and suggestions (has anyone coined CC&S yet ) welcome as always.
Marc.
Not quite a fan of the green stuffed lash whip...for some reason it doesn't look finished. That bonesword however, I just love...very sleek and deadly! Great job.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dark_Gear wrote:After the tedious bits were out of the way I finally could get back to the Tyranid Prime.
Try as I might the original deathspitter mod just wasn'nt working. It was too bulky and took away the focus from the bonesword. Furthermore, the empty lower arm was also in the way of the sword arm so I scrapped that one too. Instead, I opted for a Plain Jane deathspitter with standard feeder arm. This design changed opened up some much needed space on the model for a Lash whip more in keeping with the Sword, something that could make use of the sketch I posted at the start of the weekend.
Starting with a Ripper as a base I figured that since they are small and very simple creatures to breed, maybe they could be used as a base for more than boneswords. Who knows, maybe rippers evolved from some type of voracious sea-dwelling creature. Their biomass was taken in and their DNA was tweaked so that the flowing tentacles has fused into a long bony member or one single large powerful tentacle. If such is the case I figure that one Uber tentacle would still have elements of its previously divided self, hence it would have flesh hooks coming out of a split tip to properly snare meals, uh, I mean opponents. Which lead to this final design.
Now that is a sweet looking lash whip design. Way to take the art concept to physical form.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also I like how you converted the legs on your strikes. I see you are using the rending claw hands from the genestealers. If you ever get a chance to post a tutorial on the legs, it would be appreciated.
I love how you say you're no good with GS! Stop beiggn so modest, you are very good
Wanted to say thankyou for the inspiration you've given me since the beginning of the blog. Thanks to you i took the time to make cool boneswords! (Actually, i think you inspired me to start Nids tbh! Ive got 4k now!! )
Wow, words nearly escape me! you have done an absolutely inspirational job with your army, I may not be a Nid lover anymore but I can sure appreciate and enjoy a build of this quality, with this much dedication and this much skill! you have made what is essentially a scary alien army actually look like a scary alien army! those winged beasts are amazing and your tervigon is looking very nice indeed! I can't wait to see what's next! definitely subbed, definitely hooked!
@ Wyomingfox: Feel free to copy the bonesword idea. It's why I post all these pics in the first place. As for the lash whip, the final design was the first time I took the time to sketch out the idea before reaching for the bitz and the GS. Normally I kinda "sketch in 3d", building shapes as I go while keeping the door open for happy accidents. I was very pleased with the results.
About the Shrike legs, it just so happens that one of them broke which means I have the opportunity of taking some deconstructed shots so you can see how the thing comes together. Probably won't get to that until the end of the week but a leg tutorial is now on my list.
@ Vitruvian & Nerdfest: Until I can scratch build a whole model I won't consider myself good but thanks for appreciate the time and effort I put into my work. Most of all, thanks for sharing that I was an inspiration. It makes all those times where I get tired of taking progress pics and posting comments seem worthwhile. Did you post pics of your Nids anywhere yet?
As a teaser for the next phase for the Tervigon, I'll reveal some of my inspiration.
DarkStarSabre wrote:Having read through this - I'm impressed. Love how you're doing your own swarm up. And the beetle scheme? I wanted to do that so much then they upped and made all the metallic paints disappear.
I was so sad when that happened.
I live in Scotland and although i haven't been into GW in a wee while(it wasn't that long ago) i'm pretty sure they still sell metallics. In fact the website(with UK selected as country) is selling the metallics. Also ordering online really doesn't take long for delivery, not in this day in age.
Hope you get what you need.
Dark_Gear, i hope theres going to be some double teeth action for the queen of your brood?!
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:
I was so sad when that happened.
I live in Scotland and although i haven't been into GW in a wee while(it wasn't that long ago) i'm pretty sure they still sell metallics. In fact the website(with UK selected as country) is selling the metallics. Also ordering online really doesn't take long for delivery, not in this day in age.
The metallics I mentioned was not the standard golds, silvers, bronzes.
A while back GW produced some other colours - blue, purple, red, green - in metallic tones.
As said, at the time I wasn't looking to hunt for half a dozen different paint suppliers. But I do miss the old metallic colours.
DarkStarSabre wrote:The metallics I mentioned was not the standard golds, silvers, bronzes.
A while back GW produced some other colours - blue, purple, red, green - in metallic tones.
As said, at the time I wasn't looking to hunt for half a dozen different paint suppliers. But I do miss the old metallic colours.
Ah i'm with you now sorry. Keep an eye on my 'Toolbox' thread(linked below) as i have just requested paints to be added to the list. If i get some replies you may see something you like.
There are a few pics of my nids, some in my gallery and in my randoms thread (in sig). Tbh, i find it difficult to see how people couldnt be inspired looking at your work!
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:Dark_Gear, i hope theres going to be some double teeth action for the queen of your brood?!
I don't know but have you noticed that a ripper's jaws are just the right proportions compared to a Trigon's head...
DarkStarSabre wrote:A while back GW produced some other colours - blue, purple, red, green - in metallic tones.
As said, at the time I wasn't looking to hunt for half a dozen different paint suppliers. But I do miss the old metallic colours.
Have you thought of adding some acrylic ink medium, which you could be at an art supply store, into some mithril silver paint to tint it to your desired tone? I'd also suggest you look around for the Tamiya metallics. They have a wide assortment of colourful "candy coat" paints to choose and their metal flakes are much smaller than GW's. Another option might be to approach a car painting shop and ask where they buy their paint. I've found vehicle metal flake to be much finer than the some model metallic paints. Seeing as how these painting shops typically create their own mixes ont he spot you could benefit from getting a) better quality paint, b) larger volumes of paint for roughly the same price as GW paint and c) get your exact colour. Just a thought.
I have sad news, the Tervigon might be taking a bit of a ride to the back burner as I received something in the mail today.
And it just so happens I had a few supplies laying around in anticipation for this arrival.
The magic words for this new project are (as if I needed any more projects..): magnetised modular terrain boards.
DarkStarSabre wrote:A while back GW produced some other colours - blue, purple, red, green - in metallic tones.
As said, at the time I wasn't looking to hunt for half a dozen different paint suppliers. But I do miss the old metallic colours.
Have you thought of adding some acrylic ink medium, which you could be at an art supply store, into some mithril silver paint to tint it to your desired tone? I'd also suggest you look around for the Tamiya metallics. They have a wide assortment of colourful "candy coat" paints to choose and their metal flakes are much smaller than GW's.
Indeed Dark_Gear. That is how I accomplished the blue metalic on sections of my first batch of Long Fang's weapons (my latest longfangs used several washes over a metalic coat instead). I took some Vellajo Game Color Ink and added it to Mitral Silver until I got a lovely metalic blue. For what it is worth, Vallejo also makes colored metalics paints for their Model Air line (meant for air brushes).
Vallejo also makes colored metalics paints for their Model Air line (meant for air brushes)
Good to know. I've yet to find a single store in my area that actually stocks Vallejo paints but I've only ever heard good things about their line of paints.
Dark_Gear wrote:I don't know but have you noticed that a ripper's jaws are just the right proportions compared to a Trigon's head...
You cannot contemplate the manic grin that played across my face as i read this...
Dark_Gear wrote:I have sad news, the Tervigon might be taking a bit of a ride to the back burner as I received something in the mail today.
...
The magic words for this new project are (as if I needed any more projects..): magnetised modular terrain boards.
As epic as 'magnetised modular terrain boards' sound you better not leave to hanging on too long with the Tervigon man!!
Seriously though, do them both! NOW! Haha.
wyomingfox wrote:(my latest longfangs used several washes over a metalic coat instead).
Fantastic idea. Sounds like a cheap and effect way DarkStarSabre could get the effect he desires without ordering online. I may try it myself at some point. So Mithril Silver base and multiple blue washes. Maybe with a dab of purple in there. Man! That would look epic in green methinks!!
Is the blue beetle effect your colour of choice for this project Dark_Gear? Or have you yet to confirm?
Been a good long day off, much accomplished but also (thankfully) many beer with friends.
So first, questions and comments.
@ kevlar'o: Thank you. I would like also like to take this occasion to thank GW for producing rippers, without a doubt, the handiest bit they have added to a sprue. It's great when used as the handle of a bone sword and it's even better when used as the secondary jaws of a Tervigon...
@ jabbakahut: Jeez man, what more do you need to be inspired to start a Nid army! (other than 1000$) But seriously, thank you and glad you're enjoying the show. I just hope that my love of the conversion side of the hobby is contagious and pushes you, or anyone else, to experiment with your models rather than just use them as is.
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:Is the blue beetle effect your colour of choice for this project Dark_Gear? Or have you yet to confirm?
The blue beetle effect was just a test scheme and it's been dropped. It's been replaced with a scheme inspired by a piece of Starcraft's concept art. The inspiration pic is on another computer but i'll post once I get to it.
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote: You cannot contemplate the manic grin that played across my face as i read this...
Sure I can! It's probably quite close to the manic grin I had when I discovered the foam cutting tools and came up with this mad idea.
That being said, let's move on to a close-up on the new terrain tools shall we?
The above is the freeform cutter. Basically you twist the wire to whatever shape you want, turn the heat up and have fun carving foam. Great stuff.
Next up is the matched set of boards with facing hills. Sections are 23.5 inches per side. Only one of them has been covered with gel medium so far as I ran out. The idea is to seal the foam and make it smoother so that paint looks more even once I get to that phase.
Regarding what I said earlier about these being modular, behold the magic of rotating each board section 180 degrees.
As a frame of reference for the height of the hilltops, which are glued to each section by the way, here's a "ground level" shot.
After working with the foam cutting tools for an hour I started getting comfortable with them and carved up some of the off cuts to be used as stylish LOS blocking terrain.
It's neither based nor painted but I'm sure you can appreciate at thiis point that complex are not a hard thing to achieve. My brain is racing 100 miles a minute coming out with new ideas, one of which is Tyranid spires. If I cut the general shape out of foam it shouldn't be too hard to coat the resultant piece with GS to add sturdiness and detail. All it would cost is time and GS, but I've got 18 feet of ribbon so it's all good.
Hope you enjoyed the show. Tomorrow I should be resuming work on the Tervigon so you can reasonably expect the next pic update by Saturday. Stay tuned.
With your permission, I think I'll definitely be using some of your ideas (boneswords in particular) in my own Nid modelling. Unfortunately, my conversion rate is seriously curtailed by my budget, so I think my progress is going to be significantly slower...
Dark_Gear wrote:Have you thought of adding some acrylic ink medium, which you could be at an art supply store, into some mithril silver paint to tint it to your desired tone? I'd also suggest you look around for the Tamiya metallics. They have a wide assortment of colourful "candy coat" paints to choose and their metal flakes are much smaller than GW's. Another option might be to approach a car painting shop and ask where they buy their paint. I've found vehicle metal flake to be much finer than the some model metallic paints. Seeing as how these painting shops typically create their own mixes ont he spot you could benefit from getting a) better quality paint, b) larger volumes of paint for roughly the same price as GW paint and c) get your exact colour. Just a thought.
Very good suggestion. I'm also remembering something from Warseer a good several years ago where someone did a metallic Word Bearer army using the inks over drybrushed metal. I think I might try that as an idea tonight on one of my spare Chaos Marines.
Also, now we are waiting to see what you do with those boards.
Love the Trygon that seems to be a mascot for them!
Pardon the delay for updates but it's been a very ADHD weekend what with being busy all over the place. What little hobby time I had, I spent on the models rather than the forums. Here then is what's been going on. A quick heads-up for the photo geeks, pics won't be as clear as usual since my flash batteries died so I have to hand hold all my shots while I open up the aperture. Really wish I could afford a 5dMk2 so I could just shoot at ISO 1600 and not worry about anything as annoying as light or batteries...
Tervigon | Worked quickly on the jaw.
Need some GS for filling and fleshing out the transitions.
Tyrannofex | Started working on the vestigial fore-limbs. The base for the arm is the 2nd smallest Trigon arm whereas the blade is a Warrior Scything Talon. Some GS required to create the inner crease and build up what was lost from the cutting, which should be easy once I get to it as it's just like the sections I rebuilt for the Harpy's two short arms.
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Finally started on the blood and ammo tubes going to the Rupture Cannon. The vein seen at the right has been shaped in such a way because I'm planning on adding smaller blood vessels that will thread through the bottom opening. I'm only working on one side at a time to limit the chances that I'll squash the work by accident. Nothing is more infuriating than smudging a zone of fresh GS after you're done it and have moved on to a new area. For example, I had to redo some wing sections 4 times before I figured out this rule of thumb.
I've got the whole design sketched out so it makes the progress a lot easier to plan out. Next step on this model is to finish up the smaller blood vessels feeding the gun before I do the major veins on the other side. Then I can follow up with the short arms and the armour on the top of the gun before finally sculpting the extra chitin on the skull.
Walking Tyrant | GS'ed the tail, some gaps around the neck and filled the holes at the ankles since I didn't want to use the dinky little spikes which come with the kit. Also finally glued the Lash Whip arm and magnetised one of his feet so the model would stay snapped to the the base without having to deal with pins that either pop out or snap off.
Flying Tyrant | Got some more work done on the wings. First up, a better looking thumb courtesy of some chopped ScyTals.
I'm so happy all the parts here are plastic as that means I can leverage the power of Tamiya's Extra Thin Cement again and not have to GS anything. All I needed to do was a) check for fit, b) file down the bitz a little and c) repeat a+b until until they meshed perfectly. Apply a big drop of cement, let sit, paint smooth as always.
Following that I started reshaping the arms with a second coat of GS to cover the Balrog arms. Eventually, all of the plastic on both arms will be covered with GS. The idea is the give the wings a much more textured look that will also be smoother and look like it's more designed for flight than the "Burning Lava Monster's" ever did. Whether I get there or not is a different story but at least I'm getting some great practice scultping GS in the meantime.
You'll notice I also put the armour plates from the earlier ScyTals on the front of the wings to bulk them up a bit. I'm not quite sure I'll keep it yet but sometimes you just have to build things up "just because". I'll post a little tut on how I did that later on. In the meantime, here's another view of the wings.
They're still far from over as I have yet to GS the upper arm, fill in the remaining wing sections and create a proper transition to the body from the wings. Once all that is done on both wings, I'll determine whether I'm getting rid of the armour on the leading edge of the wings. After seeing the E3 video of the dragons in Skyrim I'm really tempted to start on a 2nd Harpy that wouldn't be flying. Instead, it would be modeled more like the male dragon in Reign of Fire near the end of the movie when it's walking on the ground, using its knuckles as feet as it crawls its way through a ruined London, wings tucked safely away.
As for the terrain boards, they're on a bit of a hiatus until some large sheets of styrene show up. To magnetise the panels I'll be putting them into styrene trays which will serve double duty by reinforcing the outer edges. The styrene trays will also make it a lot easier to contain the magnets as I'm certain that the bond of any glue will be weaker than the strength of Rare Earth Magnets once they get close enough.
Anyways, that's it for now. CC&S welcome as always.
After seeing the E3 video of the dragons in Skyrim I'm really tempted to start on a 2nd Harpy that wouldn't be flying. Instead, it would be modeled more like the male dragon in Reign of Fire near the end of the movie when it's walking on the ground, using its knuckles as feet as it crawls its way through a ruined London, wings tucked safely away.
That is something I'd like to see.
I can't help but be reminded of the 80's version of Invaders from Mars after seeing the Warriors from your first post.
<quick edit>Thanks to all for my readers by the way. Just this morning I passed 7000 views which means you've all been come here upwards of 2500 times in the past 2 weeks. <end quick edit>
Glad you guys like wings as there's plenty more work to do on them. If I'd known they were going to take this long to do I probably wouldn't started them. On the other hand, I'm really enjoying all the practice with GS. Total time spent thus far is reaching in the low 20's just on the Flyrant and I've barely even done any work on the right wing...
Speaking of wings, after I finished the post last night I figured I'd do an inventory of the army thus far, just to see how I could fit a 2nd Harpy in there somewhere.
1st reaction: Damn I won't have enough room!
I have to assemble 1 more Tyrannofex, 1 more Tervigon, 12 more gaunts, 20 Genestealers and 3 Zooanthropes. As cool as it will be, it seems like the 2nd harpy will have to wait.
2nd reaction: Better go buy some paint because I'm going to need A LOT!
But what a great way to save money if I can actually hold off on buying new models until everything gets painted.
3rd reaction: As you guys have pointed out, yes, not only do wings looks cool but (IMHO) massive Monstrous Creature conversions look so much better than a bunch of tanks.
There are really good looking wings available from Forge World, but they're only for Shrikes. The wings for the Flying Tyrant just don't look as good. In other words, if you want a job done right, you have to do it yourself, possibly with a little inspiration from the Dakka P&M blogs. Seriously though, GS wings like these isn't that hard. It just takes a lot of patience. If you're nervous about ruining a batch of GS or a model here's a great trick. Buy some blue-tac or some animator's play-doh to practice on. Take your time, put in some hours sculpting on stress free material and then go to town on GS'ing. Another thing to keep in mind however is that working with GS on a model that you really care about and don't want to ruin even really tightens the screws on your skills, no matter their level. As I see it, when your work matters and you can't afford to make mistakes, it forces you to bring your "A" game but in a fun and rewarding way. Speaking of challenges, one of these days I should really consider learning how to do resin casting, just so I don't have to sculpt 21 boneswords by hand or ever have to sculpt a third pair of wings.
Casting some smallish like the bonesword is easy as pie. The wings would be a bit more work, due to the size. If you had sculpted the whole thing, I woulda recommended getting in contact with Chapterhouse, see if they were interested.
That's a cool idea. Might just have to do that with the Boneswords since those are actually original sculpts. By chopping them off at the wrist not only could I get rid of the trademarked portion of the bitz (and thus keep GW off my work) but it would also cut down on the amount of resin used. As for the wings well, I think I'll just be better off scratch-building them next time. I reckon that after resculpting the flyrant's wings I'll have had enough practice with GS to feel comfortable attempting something like that.
Nice army!! Need a few more little gribblies though!
The boneswords cant take that long surely?! If you do each separately they will be more organic Plus you can experiment with more crazy bonesword designs.
If you can resist buying more until you paint all that you have the willpower of a GOD!!
The Bone swords and lash whips, as modeled on my Tyranid Prime, will take about 4 hours each to make due to all the cutting, filing and GS work. Granted speed might increase once I get a production line going but I doubt it'll take anything less than 3 hours per Sword/Whip. Hence my interest in casting as I have no intention in cutting corners for the conversions. On the bright side, that means it'll be that much longer before I buy new models
The way things are going I'll still be working on this army by the time the 7th ed. Nid Dex comes out...
Amazing stuff mate. You never fail to impress! I'm dying to see more gribblies!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh yeh, check out Oyumaru if your looking to speed up the modeling process. Theres a link on my Toolbox thread and theres a thread about it in Dakka's vaults!
Oyumaru seems like a pretty cool material. Is it just me or is it a different brand of "Instant Mold" (as advertised on CMON http://www.coolminiornot.com/shop/tools-and-misc/instant-mold.html) or InstaMorph (http://www.instamorph.com/)? Have you worked with oyumaru before? How hard would it be to get a 2 part mold if I wanted to mass-produce some boneswords and lash whips?
Also, i noticed that you added the Tamiya Extra thin cement is the modding section of the toolbox, thanks.
As for the gribblies, just a short update today. Made a bit of progress on the Tyrannofex last night, tidying up some of the devilish details on the chopped fore-limb.
Also added the extra veins towards the tail end of the Cannon, like I was talking about yesterday, in order to fill out that void.
Slowly but surely I'll get the other side and finish the top armour plating as per this sketch I did a few months back.
As for Oyumaru, i get my money through soon and will be ordering a batch. I have not used it but i looked into it in some detail. Its deffo the same stuff as the CMON link but not sure about the other stuff. It commonly comes in squares which are very easy to work with and can be reused. Not sure about the second link. Did you find the thread? Heres a link:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/342782.page Shows you how it works and stuff on the first page. Should give you an idea if it will do the boneswords or not. Its hard for me to say without having the part in my hands obviously but its worth a try. There is also a load of links on where you can buy it too. If you plan on holding off i can tell you how it goes in the next week.In fact since it's you, and its a good cause i have some cash so i'll order some right now.
Peace out!
Automatically Appended Next Post: £7.70 including delivery. Got it on Amazon.
Estimated delivery 18 Jun 2011 - 22 Jun 2011.
I'll tell you how it goes. I'll do a few different sized parts. Anything you want me to try out specifically?
Thanks for that thread re: Oyumaru. Very interesting read. Once I finished it and did some research, I found out that I've been hoarding some of the unbranded plastic pellet versions of the mould material for the past 4 years without knowing what I actually had in my tool box. Go figure!
Let me know how your tests turn out as I'm really looking forward to reducing my bonesword creation time. Rippers would be a great model to test the mould material on as I'll need a whole bunch of them for the sword grips. Termagaunt heads would be my second choice bit to mass produce as I'm thinking of converting my hormogaunts since I rarely use them.
Speaking of new mats, my VeryFLGS (VFLGS from now on) received a shipment today and subsequently delivered it to me, free of charge.
A bit of back story... When speaking to the owner about my plans for modular magnetised terrain boards a few weeks back, his eyes lit up. Upon hearing a better description of the project, he offered to pay for the styrene that I would need to complete 8 terrain sections for the VFLGS. Last Wednesday we made the arrangement for a bulk supply of styrene from a local supplier and today, I found out that buying bulk is a great way to go. Hence this:
That right there is a 48x96 inch sheet of .06 thick styrene. Total cost: 55$. Cost to buy that quantity of styrene in 11x14 sheets: 209$. Now that the mats are here I can't wait to go back to the terrain boards. Ideas are racing through my head as I'm picturing board with modular rivers that are actually not on top of the terrain sections.
The sheet is .04 inches thick or 1 millimeter. I redid the math using the cost of 12x24 sheets, which work out to 6.20 per sheet, and it would have cost 99.20 plus shipping. So not only was it a 44 dollar saving but it's also a time saving as I now won't have to deal with patching up seams in the middle of the 24x24 board sections.
Dark_Gear wrote:Thanks for that thread re: Oyumaru. Very interesting read. Once I finished it and did some research, I found out that I've been hoarding some of the unbranded plastic pellet versions of the mould material for the past 4 years without knowing what I actually had in my tool box. Go figure!
Haha great stuff! Loving that gargantuan sheet of plasticard my good man! Do people still say gargantuan? Or even 'good man?'
Anyway got the Oyumaru in today, first thoughts it's bloody tiny... There are 6, 67mm x 15mm x 7mm blocks. I'm not too worried because its supposed to be reusable and i don't plan on doing any huge parts. Anyway i will have a play about with it tonight cast a few parts using green stuff. I'll do the Nid parts you requested if you haven't used the pellets yet? I'll also try using the same stuff tomorrow and see if its responding the same. Oh and i'll put it on The Toolbox thread so as not to bog down your blog. Meanwhile get some cool, gribbly Nids up for the world to see!
So i've been testing out the Oyumaru tonight and i've learnt a lot already. I have by no means finished yet though so keep your eyes out for a more detailed evaluation/review when i get hold of my pals camera on Tuesday.
1. Boiling Water Obviously be safety conscious, i don't see anyone burning themselves as your not in contact with the water for long and the Oyumaru cools quickly enough but don't be stupid about it. While we are on the topic, i'd suggest you come up with a different system to me. I filled a small plastic tray with water and brought it from the kitchen. Biggest problem here isn't, as you may have thought, spillages although expect them. The largest problem is in fact the surface area. My water would cool far to quickly and it really worked best while it was closest to boiling. Sadly this meant i was up and down every time i had to make a new mold. I would suggest a thermos of boiled water and a bucket to pour the cold stuff into, may as well use something that keeps the heat well too.
2. Moulding Some small air bubbles and the mould isn't perfect every time but if you are careful and diligent then you should be able to stop this happening. Also, be very careful not to stretch the mould before it cools/solidifies. That brings me onto an interesting point... I noticed that if i stretched the moulds before they cooled or stretched the greenstuff casts before they hardened then i could very easily alter the component produced. Otherwise casts seem to be very, very good!
3. Time I don't know why but i thought this was going to take like an hour to knock out some moulds. It took around 3 for 4 moulds and i'm not done yet. I'd say an hour per cast if your making the mould from scratch and then you'll have to let the green stuff harden(YAWN!). So find something else to do inbetween.
4. Casts Gargoyle Head: Unbelievably good! Perfection? Not quite but i would say thats my fault.
Space Marine Gun Scope: Very good! Casts need some touch ups but it shouldn't be too hard. Cutting the greenstuff flash off is going to be hard!
A toy bi-pod that fits boltguns/lasguns and more: Almost perfect! Cutting the flash from such a flimsy component might be tough though...
Fire Warrior without front optics: Still in mould. First mould ripped due to the sharp edge and excessive pushing. Expect errors when you start.
5. Sizes The tiny blocks of Oyumaru are way more than enough!! I suggest cutting small pieces from the blocks for things like heads(less than you think you will need). There is definitely enough in a block or two for components like your boneswords.
6. Re-usability I can see the grain in the Oyumaru stretching already after very little use although it doesn't seem to be affecting the moulds or how it works. Watch this space!
Hope that helps. I'm a bit sleepy so it might not read very well. I'll post a more detailed version when i have the images to go with it. Conclusion so far: This is without a doubt one of thee most useful things you could have in your toolbox...
@ ZephyrRey: Thanks for the sub. Stay tuned for more as I'm soon to start work on Tervigon and Tyrannofex 2 (Mind you, knowing my work schedule, shortly means a month)
@ LostSoulCasey'sLaw: Wow, very throrough write-up. Once again, thanks for the research and the write-up. Learned a lot from your initial use of the material and I'll make sure to be as thorough as you when I try out my equivalent product over here.
1. Boiling Water
I would suggest a thermos of boiled water and a bucket to pour the cold stuff into, may as well use something that keeps the heat well too.
So do you think an electric kettle would be a good workaround here? With a kettle that's small enough to fit on the desk even, it should be easy enough to get just enough water right when needed. Having an insulated cup or bowl could compound the heat loss even more.
2. Moulding
That brings me onto an interesting point... I noticed that if i stretched the moulds before they cooled or stretched the greenstuff casts before they hardened then i could very easily alter the component produced.
The way you worded that it seemed like you're saying that the ability to alter a component is a good thing, which I can definitely see if say, you want to make a longer gun without having to convert one. Is that what you meant?
3. Time
I don't know why but i thought this was going to take like an hour to knock out some moulds. It took around 3 for 4 moulds and i'm not done yet. I'd say an hour per cast if your making the mould from scratch and then you'll have to let the green stuff harden(YAWN!). So find something else to do in between.
Good to know. Since I've got about 5 projects going on at the same time, I should be good.
4. Casts
Gargoyle Head: Unbelievably good! Perfection? Not quite but i would say thats my fault.
Sweet! This is awesome news as I've recently lost 2 Gaunt heads during my travels. It would be a shame to buy a new box of gaunts just to replace 2 heads. Then again I do need about 10 more to flesh out the 2nd devilgaunt squad and 14 more to make sure I have enough fleshborer gaunts for the upcoming 2nd tervigon. Current gaunt count: only 82.
If you let the green stuff sit for 2 hours is that long enough to remove it from the mold? If so that be perfect as that's typically the perfect "touch-up" window. By that I mean that the GS is usually firm enough to not get smudged by stray thumbs but workable with stiff tools.
6. Re-usability
I can see the grain in the Oyumaru stretching already after very little use although it doesn't seem to be affecting the moulds or how it works.
Something worth exploring. When working with metal, in order to make stretch it past a certain point, you typically anneal it to all it to relax between the various shaping stages. Do you think that heating up the oyumaru up to high enough temperature that it would flow into a shape of it's own and then allowing it to cool would get rid of the grain or do you think it would only make the grain worse?
Conclusion so far: This is without a doubt one of thee most useful things you could have in your toolbox...
Awesome news! That being the case I'll make sure to try out my plastic molding pellets sooner than later. I'll let you know how the test go.
Modeling wise, it was a slow but productive weekend.
For starters I magnetised the Trigon to it's base in order to facilitate transport. Thanks to the thickness of the scratch-built plasticard base, all it took was a bit of drilling, gluing and patching with GS to make a handy-dandy "snap-on" base.
Next came the task that would occupy me for the rest of Saturday. I finally completed the veins and pipes on the right hand side of the Tyrannofex, tweaking their arrangement a bit compared to the left hand side just to add some natural randomness to the monstrous cannon. Here then is where the Rupture Cannon stands thus far:
Next phase is the armour plating as illustrated in the sketch I published last week.
Did some more work on the Tervigon before heading out to FLGS. Nothing major so no pictures - for now.
To close this post, here was the list I used (successfully) for today's 2500pt fight:
Although my reserve rolls weren't what I expected, things worked out in the end. It was the first time I ever used the Trigon and although I wouldn't call it stellar compared to what the biovores and Devgaunts KP did on the opposite side of the board, it did pretty much wipe out a squad of Sniper Scouts that were camping on an objective, and thus cleared the only objective my opponent had captured. Let's just it say didn't end well for the marines (again).
Dark_Gear wrote:So do you think an electric kettle would be a good workaround here? With a kettle that's small enough to fit on the desk even, it should be easy enough to get just enough water right when needed. Having an insulated cup or bowl could compound the heat loss even more.
Yep, an insulated cup or bowl would help a lot. If you can have a kettle at your desk thats perfect, and if you have somewhere to dispose of cold water thats even better. I was using an electric kettle but i had the distinct feeling i'd rub against it, burn my arm, knock the kettle down and have to go to hospital. I have a limited workspace though. :(
2. Moulding
The way you worded that it seemed like you're saying that the ability to alter a component is a good thing, which I can definitely see if say, you want to make a longer gun without having to convert one. Is that what you meant?
Stretching the moulds and casts is predominantly a bad thing but i can see positive uses in it if you did it on purpose. I will explain these at the end a bit.
4. Casts
only 82.
I got to 48 and started crying when i was doing mine. Haha!
If you let the green stuff sit for 2 hours is that long enough to remove it from the mold? If so that be perfect as that's typically the perfect "touch-up" window. By that I mean that the GS is usually firm enough to not get smudged by stray thumbs but workable with stiff tools.
I'd say 2 hours is enough although any work you will need to do should be doable with normal hard kit(files, cutters, knives. oh an a touch of greenstuff)
6. Re-usability
Something worth exploring. When working with metal, in order to make stretch it past a certain point, you typically anneal it to all it to relax between the various shaping stages. Do you think that heating up the oyumaru up to high enough temperature that it would flow into a shape of it's own and then allowing it to cool would get rid of the grain or do you think it would only make the grain worse?
Sorry, the grain doesn't cause any problems at all, it's only visible due to the semi-transparency of the material. I worry that as it loses the grain it may become less responive. I just did a part where the Oyumary is botched together from cut offs, the colour is much darker and less transparent but the mould is perfect.
I got the casts, moulds and Oyumaru out again today to look on it with fresh eyes. Firstly i would say i've been a very silly billy!!
Some of the casts are mis aligned: This is partly to do with my impatience at the start where i wanted to see the quality of the print so i kept removing half the cast to see it. This is also just due to the fact that its hard to line up. No fear i have a solution! I would suggest putting a pin through the Oyumaru on either side of the component while it is being cast. This should make it easy to line up later, hell! use even more pins if you're doing something important.
Also i have noticed all of the casts are slightly larger than the originals. I was very annoyed when i noticed but i think i have figured out why! When you are happy that the mould has been made and you peel back the two sides of the mould and cut the closed edge the Oyumaru tends to curl outwards. This will be partly due to surface tension, the sides the moulds are on can't hold their selves together as strongly as the unblemished sides. This will also have to do with the removal of their counterpart, the two halves of the mould would have held each other in place until you peeled them away. The simplest solution would be Sellotape(i think thats sticky tape to you foreigners! ). Wrap it up good so it doesn't stretch during the casting. Things like screws instead of pins are just going to shred the material, clamps won't give even pressure and might squash it too much. Elastic bands may work but not as well as tape. Trial and error might be required here...
Tyrranofex is looking great man. I wasn't quite sure about the gun the first time i saw it but every time you work your magic on it i find myself admiring it more and more.
That's a really cool list. I don't think i've got the balls to play with so few numbers but it looks like it can do the job to me. 2k of your 'Nids against my 2k of CSM from the last codex would be fun to watch never mind play! The CSM's would have no chance in hell of winning but it would be fun to see their insane stats and few numbers against all those hungry beasts!!
Peace out man keep up the good work!
This, is getting very interesting! i'm intrigued as to how you'll tackle this project now! but I bet it'll be done as well as everything else you've managed to produce in this thread! I think you should take some time off work 'sick' and work on your models for a week!.....or two :-)
You're right about the numberts being a bit low. I've been experimenting with trying to get the right balance of MC's to gribblies and I think I'm getting close. One of my opponents at the FLGS runs both Nids and Chaos so I used him and his CSM as a test subject (with his consent) while experimenting the "Flying List". The premise was, using his knowledge of Nids, to build a list tailored to face my horde.
The "Flying List" was an attempt to fit as many flying units as possible in an all-comers list and it looked like this:
Large squad of Plague Marines x2
Khorne Berzerkers x2
Infiltrating Scouts
Obliterators x3
Predator x1
Details are hazy as it was about 2 months ago but all in all he had about 48 models and 5 vehicles in a 2500 game.
Terrain was setup with a river cutting off one corner. Deployment was table quarters, mission: objectives.
The way I ran the list was basically treating it like 2 armies. The first was the flying army weighing in at roughly 1100 points, the second was the foot list, slowing creeping forward yet throwing focused shooting wherever it was needed. One of the objectives was in my zone, another in the center and the third in the "island" where Chaos established a fire base.
It was a textbook fight. Biovores softened up everything they could, causing one unit of plague marines to break and run off the board. Harpy stun locked the predator while the whole flock of flyers raced up the middle straight for the firebase. One key to making the Gargoyle screen survive a bit longer is to throw Catalyst on them in Turn 1. By the time I reached the CSM line, I still 14 Gargoyles, 5 shrikes and the Flyrant so I managed to tie up the Oblits and another squad of marines in one assault. Both evaporated. I consolidated the remaining flyers in cover, claiming the objective and bracing for a counter attack that never came. Meanwhile back in my creeping firebase, the Tervigon had pooped out 23 more gaunts, thereby bubble wrapping two objectives, the remaining 20-ish devilgaunts, most Hive Guard and all the Biovores. Wounds had been sprinkled throughout the force but everything was still at effective fighting strength by the end of turn 4. We were shocked at how quickly CSM's folded in the face of the Flying swarm and were left to ponder where Chaos could find enough firepower to actually kill enough gribblies without going far down "Tailoring Road". The following weekend I tried a tweaked variant of the list against Orks in a 3k game (adding venomthropes, 2 dakkafexes, foot warriors and dropping the Zooans). Pretty much the same thing happened. I retired the list after that, filing it under the "fun for me but noone else except in a tournament environment" category. Now I'm back in experimentation mode, trying to see what new ways to play Nids I can find, which don't use Stealers...
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote: I have a limited workspace though. :(
Don't we all though? My dear wife is really starting to despise "the office room" in our apartment as it's looking more like a paint and modeling studio than a second bedroom these days. It's why I placed a sheet of glass on the desk a few weeks. Helps with the cleanup for when we have surprise guests, especially since I'm close to phase 2 of airbrushing.
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:I got to 48 and started crying when i was doing mine. Haha! (
I love building gaunts at this point but genestealers... God I hate those models. So many arms, so much flash in nasty places. I've got a last batch of 20 to build which have sitting on a cutting mat ready to go for the past month and a half, all sorted and ready to go but I'd rather file rippers than work on Stealers. Probably doesn't help that I can't seem to fit them in any of my army builds.
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:
6. Re-usability
Sorry, the grain doesn't cause any problems at all, it's only visible due to the semi-transparency of the material. I worry that as it loses the grain it may become less responive. I just did a part where the Oyumary is botched together from cut offs, the colour is much darker and less transparent but the mould is perfect.
Awesome! Glad you cleared that up. So the grain that you see in the material is really just visual and doesn't actually affect the surface. Can't wait to find the time to get started with it all and start cranking out boneswords.
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:
I would suggest putting a pin through the Oyumaru on either side of the component while it is being cast. This should make it easy to line up later, hell! use even more pins if you're doing something important.
When... you peel back the two sides of the mould and cut the closed edge the Oyumaru tends to curl outwards.
Right, so pin the parts of the moulds so they register properly. Have you tried 3 part moulds yet? Would placing the parts of the mould in the freezer first help stiffen them. I'm totally new to casting but I guess the flexibility of the material is key if you want to be able to remove the object within yes?
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:
Tyrranofex is looking great man. I wasn't quite sure about the gun the first time i saw it but every time you work your magic on it i find myself admiring it more and more.
Thanks again and TBH, I was having major doubts too as the proportions seemed way off compared to the rest. That all went away when I did that sketch. From that point I was more confident that once the piping and veins were added it would connect the gun to the model and bring it all together. Glad I stuck it out and kept working on it.
@Haonn: Thanks and welcome to the Spawning Vats.
I'm so close to finishing the Tyrannofex and the Trigon it just feels great. Next step is to finish the wings on the Tyrant. I'll just have to dedicate a whole day to it most likely. Following that, the Harpy is still stumping me design wise with it's guns.
Work has picked up in the last few days so hobby time has been non-existant. In the meantime, I found another review/demo of instamold over on "Here Be Geeks" that shows another great use for Oyumaru type moulding material.
Damn really wish I could take a few days off just to catch up on modeling. Can't accomplish too much with 3 hours a week.
At least I've managed to solve the problem of how to join the tervigon to it's base. Turns out the posts of flying bases also work well with ground based models too. By magnetising the post the model is now supported off the ground, meaning it's no longer the 3 spindly legs holding the weight of the model.
The magnet is strong enough that the model can be picked up, base and all. Solving the issue of moving it while gaming.
Although the base needed some extensions to fit the dynamic stance, at least I got it to fit on a standard sized large flyer base which is now my defacto base size for monstrous creatures.
Happy to hear you're inspired by this. If I may give a word of advice before you go out and buy the whole arachnorok kit, I suggest you look on ebay for the bitz. Hoard O' Bits seems to always have 2 or 3 torsos up for grabs and they start the bidding cheap. Case in point:
You could get the parts that I used for this conversion for a measly 12$ or less (including shipping). I'm not associated with this seller but I suggest you go through him as he's very professional and quick to deliver.
How many tervigons do you typically run in your list?
So the stealers are working out for you? How do you run them? I've only ever used them once in the past year and although they did their job well (by clearing an objective of 20 ork boys in 2 turns), I'd much rather have another squad of warriors or 21 more devilgaunts and drown my opponents with shooting.
Zooanthropes have also been dropped completely from my list lately, as in my area many players run psychic defense (as they should) and thus I've found that a mix of biovores, venomthropes and hive guard are much reliable. I really miss the brainy bugs but their short range and low toughness has quite often seen them die to a torrent of fire long before they're even able to shoot. So I wonder, do you pod your Zoonthropes in?
Lovely conversions, looking forward to seeing more.
RE Zoanthropes. I pod them in for Apocalypse games where there's definitely going to be something worth shooting. For most games, my meta just doesn't have enough AV14 to justify them. T-fexes do the trick against the occasional Russ or Ironclad, and Hive Guard just do so much more damage against light and medium armour due to rate of fire, greater endurance and being more easily protected.
The main reasons for my army choice were based on opportunities to model. For true game purpose, I love the hive guards. They do a much better job of clearing out light to medium armor and most times for me it keeps the enemy back a bit.
lindsay40k wrote:Lovely conversions, looking forward to seeing more.
RE Zoanthropes. I pod them in for Apocalypse games where there's definitely going to be something worth shooting.
Thanks for reminding me that I need to work on drop spores. I've got some sketches done and the foam for the basic shape, I just need to finish the core of Monstrous Creatures before I start something else. I'll scan and post them sometime this week for comment and review.
lindsay40k wrote:For most games, my meta just doesn't have enough AV14 to justify them. T-fexes do the trick against the occasional Russ or Ironclad, and Hive Guard just do so much more damage against light and medium armour due to rate of fire, greater endurance and being more easily protected.
tony_nids_10 wrote:The main reasons for my army choice were based on opportunities to model. For true game purpose, I love the hive guards. They do a much better job of clearing out light to medium armor and most times for me it keeps the enemy back a bit.
Indeed, as you both say, Hive Guard are such a good mid-field shooting unit it's hard not to deploy them. The only time that a unit of Zooanthropes impressed me with their firepower was the time some jump marines landed close to the flank that had the brainy bugs. As the poor power armoured buggers were still grouped up from their deepstrike, I managed to place 2 out of 3 blast markers on them and got really lucky with my wounds. The eight man squad simply melted away. Other than that one time, my Zooans have been more effective at committing suicide via failed Perils tests than killing opponents.
One of these days I'll have to try something completely different with my Nids by dropping the tervigon and just go for a Warrior/Stealer list instead, just to see if Nid CC can ever compare to Nid shooting. I'm not sure it can but it's certainly worth a try.
As soon as I saw this thread I found Hoard O Bitz and ordered 2 bodies. They arrived last Thursday. After much messing around with clippers and greenstuff there is a great new centrepiece to my army:
Thank you for your excellent thread and great ideas. It's nice to see the upside having holes in the GW range results in unique projects like this.
As soon as I saw this thread I found Hoard O Bitz and ordered 2 bodies. They arrived last Thursday. After much messing around with clippers and greenstuff there is a great new centrepiece to my army:
Thank you for your excellent thread and great ideas.
Awesome work and glad to see I could help! Really love that you're using the traditional Carnifex legs on your project. Unique
xttz wrote:It's nice to see the upside having holes in the GW range results in unique projects like this.
I can only agree with you there too. Without these gaps in their model range imagine how much more money we would actually spend just to get the "required" and "official" models.
It's good to be missed but I was starting to wonder about you too.
Much like you, RL and summer have kicked in over here. What with: mountain hikes, beers on patios by the beach, planning a trip to Vegas, working on a new website for work and being given a copy of Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, modeling time has been much non-existent.
The highlight of the last week was 2k game against Chaos Marines which just happened totally by surprise. Basically a gaming buddy who lives close-by called just when he was walking out the door and asked what I doing? Although I wasn't intending on going to the FLGS that day, I invited him over and next thing you know, a 2nd friend calls for pretty much the same reason. So even though I was going to curl up with a beer and the sculpting tools that day, I ending up having a great time enjoying what this hobby is really about - playing with some friends.
I also threw down an interesting gauntlet to my opponent. For our next game, I'm swapping my Nids for his Chaos force and we'll see what he could do to improve his odds against the hungering swarm. I'm complicating things further by making sure that I design an all-comers list rather than a tailored list to take on my build. Army lists and Battle Reports will be posted here when that happens.
Sounds like your having a great time too. As we say in Scotland, "Buckfast Wine, aw the time!!" You probably won't gt the meaning of that in most countries outside the UK, that's probably a good thing...
Sounds like you'll have an interesting report to make soon! I'll update info on the Golden Dakka soon and pm you about any info i don't post up. Happy drinking gaming!!
It sure does go into hibernation! It's going to get worse before it gets better because I'm going to Vegas for 5 days next week.
Things have been busy here at work as well so the hobby time has been cut further. I have been working on 2nd terrain commission in the last week however so all is not lost. As it turns out a friend had been sitting on a treasure of bitz and he's finally decided to get it built. Anyone remember when the Cities of Death bundle came out a few years back?
On top of that mountain of bitz, he also has an Imperial Strongpoint, all parts still on sprues. In exchange for having free reign with to assembling all of this terrain, giving it my own spin, I get to keep some city bitz for my own projects while creating terrain I just couldn't typically afford.
Thus far, I've completed a 2 Administrative building, a Factory and 3 parts of a 5 sectioned Cathedral. Both of the multi-part structures are built in such a way that they can be built either as closed structures or as bigger ruins.
Pictures incoming when some decent progress has been done.
Whoa! What a treasure trove to get your hands on! Don't let it get in the way of your gribblies though! I need inspiration!
Funnily enough i went through what was left from my 'Nids recently... Definitely 500pts worth at least, i never realised because its mainly unbuilt. What would you recommend for 500pts of Tyranids Dark_Gear?
If you don't have them already, 6 Hive Guard and one extra Tervigon (with the right upgrades) should get you to 500pts right quick.
Option 2)
If you already have those indispensable units, then the next choice (for my very shooty playstyle) would be 6 Biovores and 230 Devilgaunts.
Option 3)
And most fun to really mess up armies that typically don't expect to deal with a lot of troops to push them off objectives in the mid to late game...
2 squads of 20 Devilgaunts in a pod with cluster spines.
P.S.: Vegas was fun and I finally found the perfect tokens to help me keep track of various game effects... A 100pack of 10.5 gram clay chips for 16$
Ooo.. Lots to thing about! I actually meant a 500pt army though, nevertheless i'm going to have a look at these options.
Dark_Gear wrote:Option 1)
If you don't have them already, 6 Hive Guard and one extra Tervigon (with the right upgrades) should get you to 500pts right quick.
I can imagine Hive Guard would be great for 500pt games. TEQ and tanks would really have trouble with them. The main problem is that they will have to move about with a synapse to keep them in range at 500pts and that puts them out in the open, imho they do best when they are behind something.
Tervigons are pricey at that level because, even with 6 wounds, everyone will be shooting at it. Then again for 200pts it'll soak up a lot of fire which will hurt MEQ and give some free Termagants with Toxin sacs which, at the least, can soak up more fire.
Dark_Gear wrote:Option 2)
If you already have those indispensable units, then the next choice (for my very shooty playstyle) would be 6 Biovores and 230 Devilgaunts.
Biovores are a great shooty unit and i don't have to worry about synapse in mid to late game because of the range... i think. Then again a close combat unit will go through them like a hot knife through butter and that's a lot of point to lose. And a Prime is an expensive deterrent.
Devilgaunts i imagine are too expensive for 500pts.
Dark_Gear wrote:Option 3)
And most fun to really mess up armies that typically don't expect to deal with a lot of troops to push them off objectives in the mid to late game...
2 squads of 20 Devilgaunts in a pod with cluster spines.
10 Devilgants in a pod with cluster spines is steep but would do well at securing late game objectives. Although, 150pts for a squad that have a very specific task may not be well spent points.
Okay so first of all i have, from memory, 3 Zoanthropes, a box of Gargoyles, 1 or 2 boxes of Hormagaunts, 2 boxes of Warriors, a box of Raveners(Partially assembled into two Primes) and a load of monstrous creature bits from my Hive Tyrant conversion. I think all my Genestealers are gone.
A few ideas i had for 500pts were;
A multi-purpose unit with a Prime, probably Warriors for the buffed BS and WS. If only i could have a Prime Shrike, real death from above!
Zoanthropes in a Mycetic Spore, although i couldn't guarantee when they would arrive.
The Doom of Malan'tai in a Mycetic Spore. It would reek havoc against horde at 500points though probably die quick against anything powerful. I could make one and swap it in for horde games i guess.
Genestealers would be great although i don't know what would be the best way to get them to combat early game. Not all tables have a lot of scenery like buildings. Mycetic Spores are expensive for 5 man squads and i think the more units/targets the better.
A Tervigon as HQ sounds interesting, maybe bare bones but the idea of making all those 'Gants is repulsive. Anyway i won't let that stand in the way.
A Mawloc would be very powerful but expensive, also can it still burrow while under the 'Feed' rule?
As modeling goes, i think it would be pretty cool for me to do an entirely floaty army like the Zoanthropes, like the Doom of Malan'tai was holding them up or something? Anyway it's all speculation right now. What do you think?
Dark_Gear wrote:P.S.: Vegas was fun and I finally found the perfect tokens to help me keep track of various game effects... A 100pack of 10.5 gram clay chips for 16$
Really good idea! Glad Vegas went well, were you up or down at the end?
Ooft, just realised i'm totally hijacking your plog. I should set up a chat thread so we can bounce ideas around! :/
Sorry man, peace out!
A long overdue post (but hey it's summer so what can you expect?).
First things first:
Ooft, just realised i'm totally hijacking your plog. I should set up a chat thread so we can bounce ideas around!
Don't worry about. It's a great discussion to have right here since it is about Nids after all no? I'll address the finer points of your list after some pictures <drumroll>
Second: Didn't really gamble that much when in Vegas. Only went to the Blackjack tables twice, 5$ a hand. Each time I practically doubled my money within 3 hands and cashed out. Ended up being up by 37.50 in the end.
Third: Some modeling pics. Remember that Cities of Death box? Well, it's 90% assembled and I'm quite happy with the results.
Here's a group pic of the 8 modules.
From left to right:
2 halves of a Manufactorum, a smaller manufactorum structure, back left corner of a cathedral, front entryway of cathedral, back right corner, 2 flanking towers of the entryway.
Rather than go with the typical method of building tall ruined walls, I opted to create open structures that could be put together either has closed buildings or individual ruins.
Looking at the Manufactorum structure for example, It can either be deployed, as above, individually, or as below, as one square building.
The cathedral expanded on that approach. The doorway is built to stand alone or be tucked in between the 2 flanking tower sections to create a much grander terrain feature.
The two corner sections for the cathedral are built to match the width of the building's front so that all 5 elements can be placed together to create a large building.
Finishing up the set of buildings is the small generator building.
In spite of its diminutive size, it's a great LOS blocker because of it's lack of windows. One can easily hide a Trigon or a Harpy behind those walls.
And now, some army list critique.
Ooo.. Lots to thing about! I actually meant a 500pt army though, nevertheless i'm going to have a look at these options.
Had I known you were looking for a list rather than a 500pt addition to an existing force, my suggestions would have been different. I should have asked for more info before launching into advice mode but at least it gave us a starting point.
What are the FOC requirements for that point cost? Is it 1 HQ and 2 troops or 1HQ and and 1 troop.
For the time being, I'll assume the restrictions aren't too stringent and start with following list and follow it up with my reasoning:
Contrary to popular belief, Nids are not a CC army, they're are a shootie army that uses CC units to keep assaulters at bay until things can get in range to shoot them. Or at least that's how I play them. This is why I never field fleshborer gaunts. Devilgaunts, at double the price, are about 4 times as effective due to a) the volume of shots, b) the increased range. Therefore, taking 11 of them is the same as buying 33 fleshborer gaunts. Thanks to the Tervigon they'll be getting counter-attack which makes them a pain to assault as well.
Tervigons are pricey at that level because, even with 6 wounds, everyone will be shooting at it.
The Tervigon in this case is your standard force multiplier and back-up artillery piece thanks to the cluster spines. Some people would cry foul because of the possible large amount of bodies you might get from your Tervigon but by the same token, they have 35 point rhinos... By placing the Hive Guard and biovores in front of it, it's going to be obscured and thus get a cover save meaning it's even more survivable.
Hive Guard are there for 2 reasons, the well-known anti-tank role but also the lesser known instant-deathing of characters. Crisis suits, Obliterators and other mean t4 units will get insta-gibbed by the delightful Hive Guard. Plague Marines also don't get FNP against them
Biovores are a great shooty unit and i don't have to worry about synapse in mid to late game because of the range... i think. Then again a close combat unit will go through them like a hot knife through butter and that's a lot of point to lose.
And finally Biovores. Although I quite loathe to not field them at full unit strength, I've yet to find a single game where these spore lobbers haven't caused major carnage to my opponent. IG hate them (that's a given) but even MEQ, due to the amount of casualties small units usually take in a single turn of shooting, will typically break and run. Their susceptibility to assault can be somewhat mitigated by placing them in proximity to the Tervigon as they'll be able to benefit from the gaunt bubble wrap.
At 500 points, I'd stay away from CC only units such as Stealers or Hormogaunts. Remember what I said earlier about nids being shooty. Time spent running after your meal is time spent not killing your opponent. This isn't to say that we don't have any stellar CC units but I prefer the ones that can tenderize opposing units as they get closer. Dev/Whip warriors or Spitter Raveners epitomise this approach. A second list that would use these units to great effect might run like so:
The Doom of Malan'tai in a Mycetic Spore. It would reek havoc against horde at 500points though probably die quick against anything powerful. I could make one and swap it in for horde games i guess.
I feel Zooeys or Doom in a pod at this point range is a waste of 40points (for the pod). As you pointed out it's an unreliable delivery method, especially without a Commander Tyrant.
A Mawloc would be very powerful but expensive, also can it still burrow while under the 'Feed' rule?
That's a good question about burrowing when out of synapse. Mind you, it's also why I prefer the Trigon Prime. He shoots very well the turn he arrives, is a synapse creature and is much more effective in CC as well.
As modeling goes, i think it would be pretty cool for me to do an entirely floaty army like the Zoanthropes, like the Doom of Malan'tai was holding them up or something? Anyway it's all speculation right now.
The all floaty concept would be very cool, especially if you find a way to make floating variations of all the units that typically wouldn't be, such as gaunts and such. For example a floating Tervigon could be based off the Starcraft Overseer. Food for thought.
Hope this helps as it's time for me to stop this wall of text. Let me know what you think of the new list options and we'll see what else we can come up with to refine your list. BTW, is this diminutive list for an escalation type campaign?
Dark_Gear wrote:It's a great discussion to have right here since it is about Nids after all no?
Fair enough, thanks. Lets move the discussion across after this message though, i wouldn't want to incur the wrath of the mods plus i've already opened the thread now and it would be a waste not to use it. Not to mention it took multiple pages to write my BA list.
Dark_Gear wrote:Didn't really gamble that much when in Vegas. Only went to the Blackjack tables twice, 5$ a hand. Each time I practically doubled my money within 3 hands and cashed out. Ended up being up by 37.50 in the end.
Good stuff!
Dark_Gear wrote:Some modeling pics. Remember that Cities of Death box? Well, it's 90% assembled and I'm quite happy with the results.
Love what you've done with those buildings. That's some very flexible terrain, i'm sure your friend will be very happy with the outcome. Will they be painted by you or your friend? Ergo, will we finally get to see a model painted by your good self? I'm sure that Carnifex is getting lonely.
Dark_Gear wrote:Had I known you were looking for a list rather than a 500pt addition to an existing force, my suggestions would have been different. I should have asked for more info before launching into advice mode but at least it gave us a starting point.
My bad, i'm not always very clear. I ramble when i type and a mumble when i talk.
Dark_Gear wrote:What are the FOC requirements for that point cost? Is it 1 HQ and 2 troops or 1HQ and and 1 troop.
As far as i am aware it is always 1HQ 2Troops, unless of coarse you are playing unusual rules for a tournament or such. I am not so just the usual 1 and 2 for me.
Good news though, i'm considering a force of 500, 750 or 1000pts.
Dark_Gear wrote:Contrary to popular belief, Nids are not a CC army, they're are a shootie army that uses CC units to keep assaulters at bay until things can get in range to shoot them. Or at least that's how I play them. This is why I never field fleshborer gaunts. Devilgaunts, at double the price, are about 4 times as effective due to a) the volume of shots, b) the increased range. Therefore, taking 11 of them is the same as buying 33 fleshborer gaunts. Thanks to the Tervigon they'll be getting counter-attack which makes them a pain to assault as well.
I have to agree with you here, Tyranids function best using this strategy. I am looking at a force which combines Mycetic Spores dropping in, Raveners and Trygons/Mawlocs bursting form the ground with Lictors an Genestealers awaking in infiltrated positions. I want units to arrive in a hail of shooting before the ensuing combat. I am really trying to capture the essence of a Tyranid assault on a planet while still turning out a quite competitive list. Tough challenge at this points level, i really don't make it easy for myself.
Dark_Gear wrote:The Tervigon...
Hive Guard...
And finally Biovores...
I can see how powerful these beasts are, you've convinced me. I'll try and figure out a way of justifying there presence and incorporating them into my narrative. Main problem is that i can't deep strike or infiltrate them.
Dark_Gear wrote:At 500 points, I'd stay away from CC only units such as Stealers or Hormogaunts. Remember what I said earlier about nids being shooty. Time spent running after your meal is time spent not killing your opponent. This isn't to say that we don't have any stellar CC units but I prefer the ones that can tenderize opposing units as they get closer. Dev/Whip warriors or Spitter Raveners epitomise this approach. A second list that would use these units to great effect might run like so:
Tyranid Prime | Twin Boneswords, AG, TS | 110 points
Warriors x3 | AG, TS, LW/BS | 165 points
Raveners x5 | Rending, Deathspitter | 225 points
There are some very obvious similarities here to the list i posted on the other thread. It's good to know i was going down the right lines. Do you think i can re-consider Genestealers now i'm aiming for higher points? They fit my narrative much better.
Dark_Gear wrote:I feel Zooeys or Doom in a pod at this point range is a waste of 40points (for the pod). As you pointed out it's an unreliable delivery method, especially without a Commander Tyrant.
So what do you think now the points are higher and you've heard my fluff? Oh and Deathleaper has the same rule as Hive Commander and it comes free with his base cost!
Dark_Gear wrote:That's a good question about burrowing when out of synapse. Mind you, it's also why I prefer the Trigon Prime. He shoots very well the turn he arrives, is a synapse creature and is much more effective in CC as well.
I agree, now i'm not looking at a 500points list, the extra 30points for a Trygon is cheap for what you get. These bad boys could sort out my anti tank problems...
Dark_Gear wrote:The all floaty concept would be very cool, especially if you find a way to make floating variations of all the units that typically wouldn't be, such as gaunts and such. For example a floating Tervigon could be based off the Starcraft Overseer. Food for thought.
Yeh it would have to be the entire force. I'll work on my fleet's genetic build once iv got my list.
Dark_Gear wrote:Hope this helps as it's time for me to stop this wall of text. Let me know what you think of the new list options and we'll see what else we can come up with to refine your list. BTW, is this diminutive list for an escalation type campaign?
Thanks very much for all of this, and nope its just a stand alone list for average games. Lets move to the other thread now and make room for pictures of big angry gribblies!
@ Casey: Thanks very much for all of this, and nope its just a stand alone list for average games. Lets move to the other thread now and make room for pictures of big angry gribblies!
You're welcome for the feedback and sounds good... but uhh ... what is the other the other thread?
@ Bloodhorror: cus i promised to keep my 1750 list at 1750 and cheapish...
I fully understand about the cheapish part. FYI, did you can buy just the arachnorok torso off ebay for 9-15$*. You're more than likely to be able to buy the carnifex bits for cheap too **. IOW, for less than the cost of a Carnifex kit, at least in canadian dollars, and your own bitz bin you could make yourself a custom, awe-inspiring Tervigon for about 30$.
As for the points, unless you're going to tournaments or playing with a group of friends who like to play that points level, 1750 is kinda low for 'Nids. I know it sounds wierd but I kid you not, 2k to 3k is our sweet spot, with an emphasis more on 2.5 to 3k thanks to the points increase to our Monstrous Creatures. I realise I may be biased because I have 5.5k of Nids but I've actually never played an Apoc game. I just try different lists every game and keep both my opponents and myself on my toes. So in the spirit of sharing advice, please enlighten us about why you've set yourself a 1750 ceiling, what kind of list you run and what you like (or dislike) about it.
Tomorrow being a holiday, I'm hoping to get some modeling time.
Looking forward to seeing some more 'Nids from you, Dark_Gear! And i'm looking forward to seeing your list Bloodhorror! I might steal some of your ideas, haha!
Dark_Gear wrote:Seeing as how I really don't care to use GS too much on my projects when just precisely melting the plastic with Tamiya Extra Thin Cement
will typically do just as well if not better, the interior space of the jaws was filled with a fragment from the space set of teeth that came with the kit.
I'll post some details of the technique in a further post.
Good evening Dark.
I really enjoyed reading about all of your great conversions of all of your Tyranids, have you had a chance to finish painting and modifying the remainder of your army ?
I was also wondering would you mind explaining your technique of melting plastic with Tamiya Extra Thin Cement. that you mentioned above, i hope im not doubling up on this request.
Hey Mordhel, check out my thread, 'The Toolbox.' Dark_Gear did a write up for me there. It's near the end. You might find some other useful info there too. Link's in my signature, enjoy!
I love your work, its flippin sweet, subscribed.
If you need someone to do resin casts for you let me know, I have been casting in resin and white metal your years now.
Check out my blog in my signature. I have some examples of pressmold castings using Instamold (Oyumaru) and ProCreate (a Greenstuff alternative). as well my own Tervigon conversions.
@theunicorn. Thank you! Your blog just solved the problems i was having with my oyumaru. I feel stupid for not doing it that way to start with. If you don't mind, could you post up a tutorial on my thread 'The Toolbox'?
My blog shows actual GW bitz being recast, and as such would get mod deleted/banned very quickly, unfortunately I do not have photos of the tervi legs being cast.
You may want to put Procreate in the toolbox though, it is a very good product along the lines of GS .
I never really thought I'd get here but what a trip it's been. A lot of great comments and even more hobby time. Small milestones like these really make me feel like all this hobby was, in fact, time well spent because of the effect it has had and continues to have on fellow players.
That being said, I'm sad to say the hobby time flew out the window because, as summer would have it, it was glorious outside and filing models seemed much less enticing than tossing a frisbee on the beach before having a pint on a sunny patio.
So much to do modeling wise... Hopefully we'll have crap weather this week so I can start clawing that to-do list heheh
I just wanted to say that you've given me some great ideas for conversions for my 'nid army which has been sitting on a back burner for the last year or so. Hopefully they stick in my head until I get around to them again (I've got a heavy gear army to deal with first).
While working in dinner I figured it was time to catch up on some overdue responses.
@TragicNut: Glad to have helped with the inspiration. Do you have a P&M blog for your Heavy Gear army yet? If so, please post it so I can check.
@ darkPrince: Thank you and love the name btw.
@ theunicorn: thanks for the sub but most of all, really glad your blog helped out Casey with some Oyumaru questions. Helping each other out is what blogs are all about no? Nice write up about the Chapterhouse Pods as I was looking them over following my first use of pods this past Sunday. His sculpts are definitely at the top of my list for scale, design and detail. My favourite quote of yours from your blog definitely has to be "Don't look. Tervigons have mommy parts". So very appropriate for your conversion.
finnan wrote:/jaw agape
I'm utterly, utterly blown away by your work.
/kneels and bows - I'm not worthy!
Such praise is much appreciated as I've been watching your blog for a while and it's really awe inspiring. I mean really, your Avatar... and the red hot metal where he grips the spear... Brilliant! (To those of you haven't seen this, go to page 16 of Finnan's Plog) Your work on the Scourges in particular is making my head swim with ideas for when I eventually get to painting the whole winged set in my collection of 'Nids, name the 30 gargoyles, 6 shrikes, harpy and flyrant.
@ Mordhel. As Casey pointed out (and reminded me), I posted an example of my technique for using the Tamiya extra thin cement in the toolbox thread. Check it out and let me know if you have any further questions. I'll be happy to help clear things up.
@ Casey. I'd be honoured if he were ok with the d_g but damn, I'm nowhere near Grey_death's level yet. At least not until I start painting...
Nuff said for now but keep on checking in. What with yesterday's game I'm starting to think that I might just have to start working on my own pods sooner than later.
(runs off to figure out some 2250 point pod lists.)
Dark_Gear wrote:@ Casey. I'd be honoured if he were ok with the d_g but damn, I'm nowhere near Grey_death's level yet. At least not until I start painting...
Well get them painted and let us decide!
Dark_Gear wrote:(runs off to figure out some 2250 point pod lists.)
Had an interesting thought... Playing around with the +1 for reserves rules might get your pods in very early. Main problem is Lictors cant start on the board and i'm not sure if the Swarmlord stacks with the Hive Tyrant. The Lictors and don't stack with each other but maybe Deathleaper would. I don't think Tyrants stack with each other either. Anyway i haven't really looked into it as i don't have enough points to spend. Maybe something worth reading up on for you though...
TragicNut wrote:I can't say that I do. Maybe I should start one...
Dark_Gear wrote:@ Mordhel. As Casey pointed out (and reminded me), I posted an example of my technique for using the Tamiya extra thin cement in the toolbox thread. Check it out and let me know if you have any further questions. I'll be happy to help clear things up.
Thanks for the heads up much appreciated.
Was a great read, but one small question, why use the extra thin cement, would the normal cement give you the same result ?
Also where do you get all of your random bits and peace's for all of your bases, e.g. light-poles broken archways etc ?
@ Mordhel: The lamp poles and broken archways I use for basing come from the GW building kits that were released for Cities of Death. The kits come will all sorts of great bits.
As for the cement technique, I've tried it with 3 types of cement; thick, regular and extra thin, and the best results come from using the extra thin. The main reason is that the extra thin "paints on" really well and doesn't leave any brush strokes when it cures. Its consistency also make it perfect for creating the plastic paste with filings, as demonstrated in the Toolbox post, because as soon the cement comes in contact with another surface it spreads itself super thin right away, thereby penetrating into every nook and cranny of a complex model. The thick cement, on the other hand, has to be painted in more precisely. While this isn't a bad feature per say, when trying to make conversions as I do, such as by making plastic putty with the cement and some filings, the extra thin is the only cement that actually goes where you it to in thin and controlled layers.
Glad this is helping you out.
@ TragicNut: Good job on starting blog of your own. Will check it out soon.
@ Casey: Oh don't get me wrong, I totally want to start painting the fleet one of these days, but that's not going to happen until I get a carrying case for the minis. Seeing as how I play pretty much every weekend, the amount of chipping I'd have to deal with is just not cool. I'm hoping I can swing the purchase by September. The challenge with my Nids is that the only i'll make a case fit all my stuff is if I get it custom-cut foam too so I'm looking at about 350$ for one of the larger battlefoam packs. Expensive but so worth it considering it would fit the whole 5k of Nids in one box.
Final image. Comparison shot of the different heights for Gargoyle bases. After struggling with keeping the little blighters from constantly falling over during assault and movement as well as not being able to stack them properly base to base, I decided to make some changes. Notice the washer on the bottom to give the models a good bit of weight so they don't topple like dominoes as well as the tiny magnet to speed up the setup process. When you have to stick in 30 flying bases by hand, you come to think that there just has to be a better way to get your models on the table. The magnets are actually strong enough to pick up the whole base even though the bottom washer is quite heavy. Just pull them all apart when you package them without having to worry about the small tip of the stands snapping off inside the Gargoyle bodies anymore.
Can you show a little more detail on the gargoyles? What size magnets did you use?
The "hole" in the gargoyle is 1/16 dia x either 5/32 or 3/16 tall (awefully small). I was thinking of using 1/8 dia magnets on the end of the pole and in the gargoyle body.
I have a boatload of them and prefer to order all my magnets ot once. You are the first person I have seen post about magnetizing these lil buggers.
I actually used 1/8 inch magnets for the Gargoyles. While originally too big to fit in the hole (that's what she said...) I simply drilled out the hole first, applied CA glue to the back of the magnet and slotted them in there. 2nd step was to glue the washers to the base as I figured it was going to be more helpful to have the heavier while everything else was drying, which it was. As for the poles, I clipped the peg off, filed the tip down flat and glued the magnet there. All told it took about 2-3 hours to get 30 gargoyles done because I created a 4th pole length to be able to stand them all together.
I have yet to magnetise my Necron Destroyer wing (now that I know it's totally worth it) so when I do I'll take clear some step-by-step pictures. It should clear up any other questions you might have.
Yes you have been faithful. Not only that you've all been a good source of motivation.There's something big in the works.
Following your army list questions here, where you trying to figure out a good null-deployment list, well, let's just you inspired me to try out a third play style for our beloved bugs. So inspired in fact that I started a quick thread here to try and wrap around my mind around how to build a 2250 point spore list for a game that happened last Saturday.
So that the big thing in the works... Pods... Dark_Gear style...
I wouldn't really call myself a competitive player, since I don't go to tournaments, however i do tend to face players who do and thus my list are rather... "efficient" (without using the usual trick of unit spamming).
Yup, I had models for everything but the pods. The only way I could everything I have is by playing Apoc or 2 Force charts.
What I ended up doing is using the large flyer bases as proxies. As it turns out, those bases are now the standard MC base in my army thus far. Except for Carnies, every t6 creature in my list is setup on those and frankly, it works perfectly for their size.
I've already got a full-size sketch figured for the basic shape and some guide lines drawn on foam. Oh darn, the inspiration bug bit me good this time.
My concept idea for spods (which I haven't had a chance to model yet) is essentially Giant Squid like creatures (probably like you on a large oval base). I haven't decided whether the Nids will burst out of the side of the body, or come out where traditionally the mouth of the Giant Squid is... but I suppose I'll just see how it goes... I think the tentacles will fit in well with the overall Nid theme - just need to draw something up and then start modelling!
@ slice: Sounds like a cool concept for the pods. You should post up the sketches in your P&M blog. Love the colour scheme on your nids btw, it looks both familiar and unique and it definitely stands out.
I have some good and some bad news (well not entirely bad, read on to see what I mean).
The Good news: Vacation pay came in but since I only took 1 week of vacation instead of 2, it turns out that this cheque into a summer bonus which means it's finally time to buy some new models.
The (not really) Bad news: No new Nid models... instead, I'm starting a new army, something to obliterate my Nids... Dark Eldar.
Rest assured I'll still be working on the Nids as they are the best, if not the only, army for conversion addicts like myself. For the next week or so, you'll be seeing more progress in a new P&M blog, advertised in my updated sig.
Dark_Gear wrote:I've already got a full-size sketch figured for the basic shape and some guide lines drawn on foam. Oh darn, the inspiration bug bit me good this time.
Me to! Have you thought of using polystyrene eggs as a base for the spore? Or have you been put off by the HQ problems and have given up on spores?
slice'n'dice wrote:My concept idea for spods (which I haven't had a chance to model yet) is essentially Giant Squid like creatures (probably like you on a large oval base). I think the tentacles will fit in well with the overall Nid theme - just need to draw something up and then start modelling!
Sounds like a great plan, very apt considering the art for the Tyranid bio-fleets. I'm looking forward to seeing what you can get together! Also, love your Tervigon concept!
Dark_Gear wrote:The (not really) Bad news: No new Nid models... instead, I'm starting a new army, something to obliterate my Nids... Dark Eldar.
I can't decide if i'm enraged or overjoyed...
Dark_Gear wrote:Rest assured I'll still be working on the Nids as they are the best, if not the only, army for conversion addicts like myself. For the next week or so, you'll be seeing more progress in a new P&M blog, advertised in my updated sig.
I've had a look at your blog, i'm looking forward to seeing your Dark Eldar stuff. I'm sure you will do the new models justice as always! Did you catch the bug from Jon and Finnan per chance? I'm really feeling Eldar at the moment but i've thought of a way to quell my ideas in a cheap way! I really need to get myself a camera soon so i can set up some plogs of my own!
Have you thought of using polystyrene eggs as a base for the spore? Or have you been put off by the HQ problems and have given up on spores?
I'm not giving up on spores yet, I just need to work out some deployment kinks. Why use eggs when I have the following stock and tools?
Shouldn't take too long to get going once I sit down and fire up the cutting tools.
Did you catch the bug from Jon and Finnan per chance?
Most definitely! Seeing their work, both with paint and conversions really made me yearn for something new. There's 5 major factors that sparked the purchase.
1. Like I'd mentioned in some circles, I feel like I've got a solid understanding of Nids now so, to mix things up a little, it's time to go back to first grade with a codex
2. One of my friends has Nids and Chaos but hasn't been playing the gribblies since we met as Nids on Nids is not a fun match up and he needs a switch from Chaos.
3. Noone else in my play group has this army yet, so it's a new opponent for everyone.
4. Choosing Grey Knights, never gonna happen. I'm a Xenos player.
5. Had the money and the time was right.
I can't decide if i'm enraged or overjoyed...
Easy, be overjoyed, as you'll now another set of conversions to drool over. Speaking of which, how about those Daemonettes?
All sounds good to me, yep the Deamonettes are yours to have. I have a few other things which i posted up on my list page. Once you've had a look, pm me.
If only!! No i refer to your crazy ass skills, i.e. scratchbuild it. I've thought about it myself but what a job it would be, i don't have the resources these days. Worth considering?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Did a quick search. Lots of big talk about building one but very few backed up by pictures, those that have been are good but don't do the girl justice. I see a much different beast in my minds eye.
As I saw it, in regards to the evolution of my conversions, the plan is to keep on working on increasingly tough projects, such as the Flyrant and Harpy until I work up to making my own Bio-titan. The plan has changed to include a Tervigon and some pods before I get to there but so far, I'm still on track.
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:Did a quick search. Lots of big talk about building one but very few backed up by pictures, those that have been are good but don't do the girl justice. I see a much different beast in my minds eye.
Dark_Gear wrote:As I saw it, in regards to the evolution of my conversions, the plan is to keep on working on increasingly tough projects, such as the Flyrant and Harpy until I work up to making my own Bio-titan. The plan has changed to include a Tervigon and some pods before I get to there but so far, I'm still on track.
Don't get me wrong i wasn't meaning you! I was searching online for Norn Queens.
Anyway, i like you overall plan. How about slipping a Norn in before or after the Bio-Titan? Depending on the scale you want it to be. As one of the few people who could do it justice you are pretty much under obligation to do it! Haha!
I'm using your rending claw feet idea, friend! Hope you don't mind, it's a compliment really! Flyrants starting to come together. Any new bugs at your end?
Wow. Your work is amazing. Hope you don't mind but I'm stealing your ideas for the harpy and tervigon. I also have some ideas on kit bashing in the black dragons neck and wings for a harpy. Wondering if you have any exp with the compatability size wise of the trygon and black dragon?
Thanks for the props Darth though looking at your Dark Eldar Wraithlord it seems you're not one to shy away from extensive conversions either
As for my experience with the Black Dragon, I've never seen the model in person so I can't say for certain, however, I did stumble upon a very inspirational project on Eye of Error, a 40k blog. Seeing as how you seem to like Dark Eldar I'm sure you'll appreciate the work that went in transforming a Black Dragon into a Proxy for a Ravager...
Looking at the dragon's wings in relation to the kabbalite warrior, I'd say they look similar in size to the Balrog Wings and thus they'd be more than adequate in size for a Harpy conversion. Let me know how that turns out.
Hope this helps and stay tuned,
On November 26th there is a 40k tournament which means I finally have a reason to... put paint to my models <gasp!> I know, shocking.
That wip was actually a revenant Titan from FW I turned to the dark side. Not my best work and I'm currently repainting it, but it's more a side project since I've started the bug army. To date all I have is a warrior box, but I'm going to expand that with a flyrant, a tyranid prime and a bunch of gaunts. After that I'm probally going to tackle the tervigon using your arachnid spider idea. I'll be sure to do my own wip blog and throw you the props when I do.
Do you have a specific kind of list in mind or are you just building the models for gaks and giggles since Nids are currently the champs for conversion potential?
Regardless of which path you're following, I look to seeing the progress. Keep me informed.
Thinking of doing a flying / warrior theme. So lots of gargoyles, a flyrant, harpy, shrikes, and warriors,tervigon etc on ground. Haven't played any games yet so Im just working on core units. Any advice on a list would help a lot!
edit:
did some crunching and heres an idea for a list... what do you think?
- flyrant with devourers
- 2x2 hive gaurd
- 2 zoanthropes
-2x3 warriors with deathspitters / scytals, adrenals
-2x10 termagaunts w/devourers
-2 tervigons w/catalyst, onslaught, toxins and adrenals
- 15 gargoyles
- harpy w/ hev venom cannons
- 3 shrikes w/ deathspitters, adrenals
- 3 carnifex w/2 devourers each
total is 2410. i figure i either need to trim to 2k, or pad up to 2500. any suggestions for either?
Funny you should ask about a flying list as they are one of my favourite themes for Nids.
From my own experience with said lists, you need at least 2000points to run them effectively as your Flying Wing can run up to about 1140 points, depending on its composition. Typical setup would look something like the following:
Flying Tyrant | Wings, Old Adversary, 1 Twin-linked Brainleech Devourers, Sword/Whip,Adrenal Glands, Paroxysm.
3-6 Shrikes | Boneswords and Lashwhips, Adrenals, Toxin Sacs.
15-20 Gargoyles| Toxin sacs and Adrenals
Seeing as Shrikes have to choose between shooting or melee, I strongly suggest you go with melee. They do it so well it's hard to use them any other way. I've seen just 2 of them wipe out 10 man marine squads by themselves. If all 6 show up to a party even a full sized squad of Obliterators don't stand a chance.
For added power, feel free to add a Harpy in the mix. Although it's not quite a CC monster, by staying close to the Tyrant it will benefit from rerolls to hit, while striking models at WS1.
I'll finish this rundown later as I have to head out to work.
Further to what I was saying this morning regarding the deployment of a Flying list I've been looking at the rough total for winged part of your list. With a few tweaks you'll be looking at:
Flying Tyrant | Wings, Old Adversary, 1 Twin-linked Brainleech Devourers, Sword/Whip, Adrenal Glands, Paroxysm. 3 Shrikes | Boneswords and Lashwhips, Adrenals. 15 Gargoyles| Toxin sacs and Adrenals 1 Harpy | TLVC, Adrenals.
... for a total of 990 points. Now you see why 2000 points for a flying list is quite tight as you still have to buy all your troops and your ranged anti-tank.
This brings us to the point where I just have to bring up the most important detail about running this type of list. You have to run your army as though you have 2 different forces, 2 tendrils if you wish. 1 forward element, 1 rear guard. Do not split your assaults unless you are certain you will win, e.g. 15 Gargoyles multi charge 2 IG heavy weapon teams while the Harpy charges a nearby Chimera. Also, keep in mind that the Harpy's Sonic Screech is one of the few grenade equivalents in our codex, frag spines being the other one.
Your flying wing, while extremely potent, is also quite fragile to massed firepower if they split up. To keep the group safe you need to practice moving them in such a way that the Gargoyles mask the Shrikes, the Shrikes mask the Tyrant and the Tyrant masks the Harpy. Extra shenanigans you could use to keep them alive in the first 2 turns of the game would be to run 2 venomthropes behind the group while also stringing out the Gargoyles so they always have one model within range. Bonus points if you also manage to get Catalyst from your Tervigons on any of your flyers. When and if you can make all of these synergistic powers gel at the same time, your opponent will hate you for it.
As for the rear guard, the best way to deploy them will depend on:
mission type spawn rolls with the Tervigons force composition
What I advocate for this group is as much cheap ranged firepower as you can muster. Considering an effective DakkaFex costs 205 points (frag spines and adrenal glands to get Initiative 4 on the charge). 20 devilgaunts in cover and with Catalyst will be even more durable (20 wounds vs. 4) and will also provide a lot more shots in the same range (60 vs. 12). Granted they're not S6 but any infantry coming in range of your Devilgaunts will have to roll a ton of saves. If at all possible, keep a venomthrope nearby to make your opponent roll for dangerous terrain and wrap you Devilgaunts with a bubble wrap of spawned gaunts. Keep all of these units with range of a Tervigon and thanks to counter-attack even a full mob of boys will think twice before charging in.
What I've found to be a good balance of Devilgaunts is 30 or 40, split into 2 squads. I never field them in squads smaller than 14 as I've found that if I take a smaller squad their effectiveness drops too quickly. Once your output of shots drops to less than 30, you're only really killing 1-2 marines a turn which isn't so hot. Putting out 45+ shots a turn (ideally 60+) is often enough to kill more than 25% of a unit, thereby causing to test for morale at -1 to leadership. Marines run. Quite often off the table.
To round out your anti-infantry, I strongly biovores in preference to Carnifexes. Assuming you keep them well bubble-wrapped from Drop Pod Dreadnoughts, biovores will be firing well into the final turns. Field them in 3's. Always. The key to their success is mass wounds. For example, 2 hits to a small unit of Long Fangs will cause about 8-9 wounds, 2-3 of which will end up not being saved. Said unit usually runs. On large units of tightly packed models, such as orks or IG, 21 wounds is not an unusual amount. Even if said units are in cover, the torrent of wounds either pins them or makes them run. When facing mech guard this might be a problem as you won't have many units to shoot at first but once Chimeras start blowing up, you'll pretty much kill or break one squad per turn, per unit of biovores on the table. I run 2 of 3 models each but that's what seems to work best for my local meta.
Regarding anti-armour, if you muster the funds and the points, bump your 2 units of Hive Guard to 3 each. Much like Biovores, they work best in 3s. Their toughness is legendary and best of all, due to their size they can actually grant your MC's a cover save, even if your Tervigon conversions are quite large. To top it all off, their high strength gun will insta-gib multi-wound Terminators. Zooanthropes on the other hand I've dropped altogether. For their points I'd expect them to be better on all fronts, especially range. The only way to get them to be used properly would be to drop them in a spore but then you still end up spending 40 more points on a suicide unit. The fact that many of my opponents have psychic defense hasn't helped bolster the usefullness of Zooanthropes either. 2 Venomthropes are slightly cheaper and, over the course of a game, will be more beneficial to your overall performance. If you don't care for the models they are actually quite fun and easy to convert from Warrior sprues. Ymgarls also have their place as they are fairly reliable and would end up meeting with your Flyers by 2 or 3, providing extra rending power near the front of the lines.
In closing, what you could be looking at for your rear-guard would look something like
2 x Tervigons | ScyTals, Adrenals, Toxins, Catalyst, Cluster Spines 2 x 2 Hive Guard 5 x Ymgarls 32 x Devilgaunts (so one box of Gaunts) | in squads of 16 3 Biovores 3 Carnifexii | 2 x Brainleech
This rounds out your force to a perfect 2500points without having to buy too many models.
If you don't mind getting a few more models to make what I feel from my experience would make for a more balanced force you could run the following:
Flying Tyrant | Wings, Old Adversary, 1 Twin-linked Brainleech Devourers, Sword/Whip, Adrenal Glands, Paroxysm. 3 Shrikes | Boneswords and Lashwhips, Adrenals. 20 Gargoyles| Toxin sacs and Adrenals 1 Harpy | TLVC, Adrenals.
2 x Tervigons | ScyTals, Adrenals, Toxins, Catalyst, Cluster Spines 2 x 3 Hive Guard 32 x Devilgaunts (so one box of Gaunts) | in squads of 16 2 x 3 Biovores 2 Carnifexii | 2 x Brainleech, Frag Spines, Adrenals (Charging into cover at Initiative 4 is so worth the 15 points per model).
Hope this helps steer your force selection in a direction that you'll enjoy. Keep the questions coming.
seems like solid advice. having not played any games yet and as im still working on purchasing models (my wallet needs time to heal from the 9000pt dark eldar beating) i think it will be a while before i get a game in, thats not vassal. right now i have a box of warriors and a fex i managed to salvage repair and get functional from when i first attempted bugs 5 years ago. for some reason i couldnt locate the gaunts i picked up, but in truth all i grabbed at the time was a tyrant, fex and 2 gaunt boxes (back when they included both gaunts) the tyrant is unfortunitly beyond salvaging, and the gaunts or most of them are MIA, so thats not much help. i plan on picking up another fex this week, and im going to order black dragon and arachnid bits later as well.
totally off topic, but was reading your DE thread, and i would humbly suggest you might get more mileage out of your trueborn if you change to units of 4 with 4 blasters, and take a venom. lances and blasters dont mesh well... usually one of the 2 is not shooting. so instead, optimize and take all the same. i like the blaster setup because it allows pretty good speed and agility in movment, while still popping tanks and gaking up hev infantry. just a thought
: )
Whoa! 9k of Dark Eldar?! Is all of that assembled? I can see how that would kick the wallet in the teeth.
A quick note about the Fex. If you assemble the kit in the standard fashion, you will that they are severely hunched over and quite short, to the point that the middle of their jaw will just about at the same height as a Terminator. To simple trick to give them a taller pose is to get the pin an the tip of the ball joint for the tail section and the file off the first 2 bony bitz that stick up from the tail plates. Once that's done you're Carnies can be given a more upright pose that truly dwarfs Terminators. Who knows, you might also get bonus points for modeling for disadvantage. hehehe
Ragarding your Tyrant, what do you mean by "beyond salvaging"? Is it badly painted or just mangled from aborted attempts at converting?
As for the Trueborn, I hear what you're saying, sticking to one type of gun per squad would definitely have some benefits. For the way I play them however, the current mix suits me just fine for the following reasons. The Venom is basically a gun chariot which moves somewhat minimally in the backfield, using the long range of the 2 Dark Glances in concert with the Splinter cannons unitl it either gets shot down or other units get close to it. At that point, one of 3 things happen. 1) They zoom away to fight another turn. 2) The Venom gets immobilised and everyone just stays onboard, using the chariot as a fragile bunker. You'd be surprised how many people don't finish off an immobilised paper chariot, which means the Trueborn can't be picked off or charged. 3) The Venom blows up, wounds get allocated to the Dark Glances so that I can at least have mobile blasters left to run and gun.
With the current setup I can uses the unit right from the start, even if only partially, whereas with 4 blasters, I lose the first turn of shooting and I must run to within 18". Based on my experience thus far (only 11 games), deploying Trueborn in that range, due to the Dark Eldar's lack of an armour save, pretty much offers 2 KP's for very little in return. Don't get me wrong, I fully expect my Trueborn to die. I just hate seeing them die as quickly as Fire Dragons. lol
The tyrant is an older metal version, and has been banged up, bent missing bits and so on. It's at. He point where I would need to rebuy most bits, and since the paint is crap might as well start over, and do one proper. Plus fine cost is easier to convert with plastic bits.
Yea, all 9k is assembled, although that incudes my titan and 2 fliers. Not all is painted however and thats the never ending project. To each his own with the trueborn, I usually take 3 units of 4 on venoms with cannons, plus 5 man warrior teams on venoms. And a neat trick is move the venom 12", disembark 2" then shoot 18" giving you a 32" range with the. Blasters. Also keep in mind if you. Stay on board, your blasters can pop a tank, then the venom can target and shred the occupants providing you only move 6. The same is true for the. Warrior unit. 5 warriors 1 Blaster and a venom is 125 points. Ad it's crazy efficient. Especially with 6 of them, along side the 3 true born, and 3 ravagers. People won't like you, but I have not lost a game yet using that list and I'm coming up on 30 games with that particular build. It's so crazy in friendly games I provide list. And rundown before hand and ask if it's ok to bring a hyper competitive tourney list. Mst say ok the first time, then request a different one the second time they play me.
Awesome advice on the fex! If not for the simle fact ilike to convert models and that's a huge attraction for the is the great room for conversion and custom beasties that just look super bad ass!
I have started working on a set of Flyrant wings, I plan on casting them in resin once finished. They are designed to fit into the top are slot on the tyrant like the forgeworld warrior wings do. The first version will be scything talon wings, with the follow up being a set with a biogun mounted like the FW harridan. I plan on the guns having the ability to swap the barrels out to be able to WYSIWYG tyranid weapons.
@unicorn: looking good. Posting my opinion on your blog as my alter-ego, Saed.
@Darth: That list does sound pretty brutal indeed. Have you faced IG with it yet? If so, let me know how it went. One of my old gaming buddies now plays a brutal MechGuard list and I just figure how to knock them down. At 1000 points what he brings to the table was bad enough but now that he's looking at 1750, with some Hydras and Vendettas, well, I just refuse to play him. Not worth my time to unpack the models for 2 turns of play. You'd think GW knew exactly what they were going to do with Dark Eldar when they designed the IG codex as it is the perfect "scissors" to the Dark Eldar's "paper", pun intended.
Regarding the Ravagers, have you had any issues with their Dark Glances not doing too much per turn or do you face adversaries who still figure that AV14 is fine against your army?
Why not just strip the Tyrant or is it actually so mangled that it would be more than actually dealing with Finecost? After my experience with the Incubi's fragile blades and a Haemonculus that took 2 hours to file and scrape, I'm not really trusting the new material. It's either plastic or metal for me. Speaking of which, I'm hoping I win a bidding war for a metal Urien Rakarth on Ebay. Fiddly as he's going to be, he's not going to bend in sunlight like his resin counterpart.
I have purchased 3 metal tyrants on feeBay over the past few months all under $28 including shipping. All were ugly and in bad shape, after a quick run through the ultrasonic cleaner with SuperClean they are in like new condition. Strip that puppy down and reuse it. Blog will be updated within the next 18hrs or so. I went with option 2 on the small talon, the general consensus was that would be the best layout. The only people that said option 1 were myself, Dark_Gear, and an artist friend of mine Neverness on my blog.
lances srent meant to kill tanks.... as DE stun locking is good enough. as long as that tanks not shooting all is well, and move on. i have played vrs gaurd both the mech gaurd and infantry platoon spam... and those are the best games ive played to date. in those games, i try to take advantage of the speed factor, since gaurd have pretty much none, unless they go valks and vets, in which case focus on those, and stay out of LOS from his other guns, and play the objectives game. if its kill points, makes stuff harder but ninja strikes and crafty deployment can work.
picked up a carnifex box today - but havent started work yet. i got a crazy inspiration for a space marine flier, so im currently kitbashing a pair of stormravens, 2 valks, a land raider and a baneblade into this monstrosoty. ill post pics ina WIP blog later once i figure it all out : )
@ Unicorn: I'll keep on your blog and see how things go. And yes, ebay is just an awesome source for models and bitz. Easier to deal with than Craigslist too.
@ Darth: I'm in the process of testing the viability of a Hellion swarm list supported by Wyches, mostly to deal with IG. Your setup does sound sound awesome but as much as I can appreciate it's strengths and efficiencies, I'm not a fan of the level of redundancy. I'm not a fluff player by any means it's that when it comes to list building, I like to make things harder for myself by trying to find unusual combos that require much synergy to work. Kinda like with Nids or Tau. When 5 units get to work together the effect is always so worth it. I don't know whether to call it masochism or generalship. Either way, the extra challenge is rewarding enough in the end that it's worth losing the first few games as the tactics get refined.
For example, even though the current trend in Nids is to run lots of Genestealers, minimum Fleshborer gaunt squads and 2 Tervigons that stay in the backfield, I run no small assault units, nearly maxed Devilgaunt squads and charge in with the 1 Tervigon. It's unorthodox and it really throws opponents out of balance since they can't picture Nids being a shootie army. Heck, sometimes I even run units away from my opponent's units just so I can keep torrenting them to death.
As for that flyer idea, are you going to make a stretch limo version of the Stormraven? With all those parts I can easily see a model being roughly 3 times the size of a Valk just bristling with sponsons and a massive carrying capacity. Maybe even C-130 sized multi-vehicle deployment capabilities whereby 4 Dreads could charge out from the ramps.
Yea working on something like a super stretch storm raven.
The venom list I use is redundant I suppose but it also makes super efficient use of points.
In my experience hellions are better then bikes, but still pretty fragile. The lack of power weapons makes them iffy in CC and they are only average at shooting. The biggest benefit is the speed and hit and run ability, combined with the separating of IC. Hellions can work well if supported properly with other close combat units, and if they can advance without taking too much fire. Adding the baron and teaming with beast masters can help a lot
Done some more work and I've almost fi usher my first warrior brood. Pics hopefully this weekend.
A super stretch Stormraven will be a good thing since GW really shouldn't have run with the first idea the design intern came up with that year...
No but seriously, for all it's cool capabilities, one would think that the Stormraven should have had as much mindful attention to detail lavished upon it as the Valkyries. Their lines are blockish yet functional, whereas the design oozes grimdark while still looking believably "human". The Stormraven looks like a flying a brick that could only fly if launched from orbit, i.e.: it's not flying, it's controlling it's descent...
What kind of scheme are you considering for the Warriors? Any ideas yet?
This update isn't so much about building Nids, it's more a story about building the community. So please, bear with me.
First, a question. Do you remember your first game of 40k, the one that that actually really got you into the hobby?
Did you walk into a FLGS and see 2 people playing a game with a bunch of models and start quoting Keany Reeves, as in, "Whoa!"
Last weekend, that's what happened to a someone who walked into the store where I was playing Dark Eldar vs. Eldar. Contrary to most curious walk-ins, this person actually asked if it okay to watch while we played. He mentioned he'd heard of the game before but he'd never actually seen it being played. It was a short game but he stayed nearby, observed and asked a few questions at various times, getting into the action as it played out. Once the game was over he asked something that I hadn't heard in a while, especially since the GW have closed en masse in the Vancouver area: "Do you know where I could a demo game?".
Here's where this story actually starts.
Without hesitating, I said the only that seemed right.
"Right here at this store.
His eyes lit up.
"I don't have an army or anything like that!" he said.
I asked him if he might have an army he had in mind at which he replied he was considering Nids, because they looked really cool. I guess he picked the right person to tell that to... Next thing you know, I tell him Nids are one of my 4 armies and offer to give him a demo. All he needs is a tape measure and I'll take care of the rest.
I don't know about you guys but when I first started off, back in the Rogue Trader days, I did what most first time players do, I went for Marines. Over time the fascination wore off and Xenos (Eldar to be exact) became the new favourite. Thankfully I never went back to Imperial armies, in spite of the nerfs to Xenos races over the years. What many players who've only ever played Imperial forces might not realise is that Xenos codiices are much better balanced against each other than Xenos vs. Imperial codices. Odd but true. If you were given the opportunity to teach someone who knew practically nothing about our favourite addiction how it works, how would you do it?
Given the opportunity, I went with what I figured would give this new player a balanced view of the game, Xenos vs. Xenos. Let me explain what I mean by "balanced". When 2 extremely shootie lists yet fragile armies face each other, attrition is about equal on both sides. Blunders cause casualties that may or may not cost you a game. With Marines, blunders are permissable due the armour but not so much with any 5+ save army. If both armies are equally susceptible to breaking due to a series of blunders or bad dice rolls, they are balanced against each other. If one army can run headlong into blunders and shrug off bad dice more effectively than the other, regardless of the build, these armies are thus unbalanced against each other. Mech IG vs. DE would be a perfect example of an unbalanced match-up (don't get me started on Dark Glances). Not impossible, just unbalanced. One list is definitely going to have more of an uphill battle on their hands than the other in this case. DE vs Nids however becomes more even as the strengths and weaknesses of each army seems to have an effective match-up to the opponent's.
Fast forward to today.
After wracking my brain regarding a "lesson plan", I finally settled on the following 750 point lists, in order to teach a newcomer as many new concepts as possible, without overloading. The idea being that Tyranids would be a good intro to army synergy, moving large squads, moving through cover with various units, basic psychic powers (Catalyst being easy to track). Dark Eldar (played by myself) would teach about vehicle armour values without being discouragingly tough, Wyches would teach assault mechanics and wound allocation.
Before you start thinking that teaching is easy, consider the following. I've been to tournaments. I know how to play quickly with 1750 points of Nids, i.e. less than 2 hours per game. All of that goes out the window when you're teaching someone, if you want to do it right. Our game took 5 hours. That's ok and here's why.
The first hour was spent going over basic list building, the FOC, the 5 sections of the chart, unit types, weapon types and vehicle types.
After that we covered the turn structure of the game and how a unit's stats come into play during those phases.
Once all the bases were covered, with a promise that we would go over it again once we were playing, we went over how to actually start the game. How to setup terrain, rolling for mission and deployment, and then how to deploy. Some of the most in-depth articles you will ever find online cover how to setup terrain and how to deploy, describing these 2 activities as the game before the game before the game. Many people don't think of these facets of the game because their poorly deployed 3+ armour or AV 12 boxes will not cost
them the game (in non-comp games) even though they are the first opportunity you have to help tailor the odds in your favour. This is a game of chance after all...
Speaking of dice rolling, if ever you teach a new player the ropes, now is the perfect time to teach them the polite way to roll dice. This may sound wierd at first but I guarantee you, the odds that anyone will argue about your dice rolls will dramatically drop once you start doing the following:
1. Declare who's doing what to who. (Unit A shoots Unit B with gun X at BS of Y)
2. Make sure your opponent is watching.
3. Roll the dice in an open spot of the board.
4. Pull out the misses, put them aside.
5. Declare the strength of the weapons, the toughness of Unit B and your target roll (3 or whatever).
6. Make sure your opponent is watching.
7. Roll the dice in an open spot of the board.
8. Pull out the failed wounds and put those aside.
9. Call out how many saves he needs to roll.
The follow-up to this is to always declare who you're rolling saves for before you roll the dice. Don't be that guy... You know, the guy who rolls one die at a time for a squad of Marines, and the first failed save is the one that goes to the bolter marine, even though it's declared after the roll.
Ask yourself this. If, as a Nid player, you don't know how to stack cover saves in your army such that everything has at least a 4+ and FNP, including your MC's, what's that advice worth to you? What if you could learn that in your first game? Gaunts give cover to the Hive Guard and the Biovores, which give cover to the Tyrant, which gives cover to the Tervigon, which gives bubble wrap to the flanks and FNP to the first rank of gaunts, which also get a 4+ cover because 50% of the models are in terrain. It may seem really simple now that you've put in your time (and your losses) but wouldn't it have been nice to know exactly how to synergise the army to its fullest in your first game?
Admittedly, you can't teach all the tricks in one game. That's not the point. The point is to impart some "advanced" knowledge as you play so that the new players realises they have to think tactically about their choices and actions, rather than just run in like bullet-stopper Marines because the Emporer Protects, uh... I mean their armour save is that good.
When teaching shooting, make sure you show your opponent that rushing foward isn't the only option. Sometimes going backwards is an even better move if it buys you an extra turn of high ST shooting. You'd be surprised how long it takes for some players to realise that movement is key.
When teaching assault, make sure you show your opponent how to disembark units on one side of the enemy unit that's in cover, the side that has the few models that are not in cover. Did you know if an assaulting unit does not cross into terrain when it charges it isn't considered as having charged "into cover" and therefore your initiative stays intact? Depending on the position of your enemy's models, there's actually a chance that you could force him to "pile in" completely outside of cover, which could be devastating to your opponent if your unit has hit and run, as you've now just pulled him out of cover and into your waiting guns. Again, it's a rule that not everyone knows which can come in handy.
Incidentally, we rolled annihilation for our game. My opponent was playing Nids and was also totally enamoured with the Tervigon's ability to poop out gaunts. It helps that he spawned 25 before rolling doubles, finishing the game with 39 spawns in total. He did follow my advice about not spawning every turn and it paid off quite nicely for him. He won his first game 7KP's to my 5. Sure, there's a couple of times where my target priority might have been a tiny bit more focused but that's the thing about teaching another player. What's the point in wiping a whole squad in 1 turn of shooting? All that would do is discourage the new player. Shooting it just enough that it takes massive casualties yet doesn't die makes for a much better lesson about the use of cover because he's seen the effects. I've played Nids long enough to know that even 4 Devilgaunts can pose a threat as long as they're in range yet to someone who's just seen a squad of 14 be ground down to 4 in one round of shooting, that's scary.
I'm sure a lot of you have read some articles about "clubbing seals" and how some people feel that it's fine to teach new players in such a way because "they have to learn the hard lessons at some point". When teaching a new player via a demo game, seal clubbing should be the furthest thing from your mind. Unlike a standard pick-up game where someone claims they know the game only to reveal they know nothing as the game unfolds, the person you're teaching admitted they knew nothing from the start. In such a case, it's your responsibility to make sure they get a good introduction to the concepts of the game, the hard lessons of the game, some canny tricks of the game and most importantly of all, they need to see it's just a game. Teach them to be competitive is fine right from the start, but that being WAAC, well, that's just not the way this game works,
So there you have it, not to get too philosophical but, sometimes building up your army isn't so much about tweaking your list or doing an insane conversion. Sometimes it's about giving some of your time to the community so that a new player gets going on the right foot.
Hope you enjoyed this post and that it gave you some worthwhile food for thought.
Very interesting indeed. I agree with you on everything i think! Well done for stepping up (and enfolding another into the arms of the Hive.. potentially )
Great stuff, introducing new players is one of the most satisfying things I've done in the hobby. I particularly make an effort to make the game tell a narrative, Jervis's recent article on dissociated game mechanics rang particularly true in this regard.
Dark_Gear wrote:Speaking of dice rolling, if ever you teach a new player the ropes, now is the perfect time to teach them the polite way to roll dice. This may sound wierd at first but I guarantee you, the odds that anyone will argue about your dice rolls will dramatically drop once you start doing the following:
1. Declare who's doing what to who. (Unit A shoots Unit B with gun X at BS of Y)
2. Make sure your opponent is watching.
3. Roll the dice in an open spot of the board.
4. Pull out the misses, put them aside.
5. Declare the strength of the weapons, the toughness of Unit B and your target roll (3 or whatever).
6. Make sure your opponent is watching.
7. Roll the dice in an open spot of the board.
8. Pull out the failed wounds and put those aside.
9. Call out how many saves he needs to roll.
The follow-up to this is to always declare who you're rolling saves for before you roll the dice. Don't be that guy... You know, the guy who rolls one die at a time for a squad of Marines, and the first failed save is the one that goes to the bolter marine, even though it's declared after the roll.
Every gamer would benefit from reminding themselves of this from time to time. My most frustrating opponent was a guy who would stoop over his dice, roll them a few times, and then point at one of my units and tell me how many are dead.
I was an GW outrider for a short time back when the starter set had marines and dark eldar (third edition I think). My FLGS sold me a starter box at cost. I painted the forces and terrain up and did demos on a small card table. I used army builder to print off army lists using the number of available minis with codex wargear you could get both sides to an equal number of points. I painted the minis with the paints colors available in a starter set of paint.
I learned how to loose with either force while keeping the game close and interesting. This is important most people enjoy their first games more when they win, but it should not be obvious that you are holding back or throwing the game.
Veterans of this hobby are our ambassadors, how we introduce new players to plastic crack influences all of our gaming experiences in the future. So teach them good things like Dark Gear wrote about. I would also say carry around a few balanced or even under powered lists at different points levels 750 to 1500 to play the new guys without trying to table them by turn 2.
The store owners are still good friends, I know for a fact that the store made a killing on starter sets and battleforces off of demos and I know of 2 local players still playing that I demoed to years ago.
Thanks guys, glad to hear this tale of training resonated with some of you.
While It wasn't the first time I've helped a beginning players with the game, it was my first actual demo game with a "blank slate" player. The experience was especially fascinating because I realised early on that the first game really shapes them and how they'll play from that point on. For example, going into turn 2 I realised his movements were done being using the dreaded "front of base to back of base" method, a.k.a. the Eldar Inch. Rather than tell him he was doing it wrong right off the bat I did what we do at work when it comes to training new staff members.
*** Short rabbit trail ***
FYI, I work for a consulting company that teaches customer service. Not how to get the sale at all costs, customer service. Some of what we teach seems like common sense once it's been taught but at times, I swear it seems like rocket science to some people because it's so different from their current practices.
One of our guiding principles, in short, is that we're all human and we all make mistakes. This doesn't give anyone the license to make the same mistakes over and over again but serves to establish that, unlike what they taught us all in school, mistakes are a normal part of learning, so just relax as you will be making mistakes.
If the same mistakes start happening over and over again, then it's time to start digging. As we like to say it, there are 3 reasons why mistakes should be repeating.
1. They weren't trained properly. (your responsibility)
2. They don't have the mental capacity to the job. (shared responsibility)
3. They don't care about the job. (their responsibility)
If it's the first time you address the situation you just assume the mantle of responsibility and train them some more, because you may have glossed over something the first time. The second time this happens you ascertain what they're not understanding about the task and you either teach them a new way to do it, give them a lateral transfer inside the company or you let them go. The third time you have to address the situation you have to assume that their hearts just isn't in the job so you either determine why that is happening and resolve it or you release them to find happiness elsewhere.
You'd be surprised how well this works when you apply it in training others. Once people realise they can make mistakes, their attention is more focused on listening to the trainer as opposed to listening to their own internal monologue about how much they suck at learning. It's really cool when you see this work.
*** End of rabbit trail ***
My first question was: "I forget, did I cover how to measure movement in detail earlier?". He admitted that he wasn't too sure since we'd covered so many rules. So we covered the movement rules and the proper to measure once more and something cool happened. He realised he'd been measuring wrong all along and he apologised. I told him not to worry about it since I probably should have spent a bit more time on that aspect of the game the first time around. Besides, there's a lot of rules to remember so it's totally fine to make mistakes anyways. Total time spent on correction: 5 minutes. Number of times he moved too far afterwards: 0. Time well spent.
@Vitruvian: I can only hope he comes into the open arms of the Hive as he did mention a certain attraction for GK's before we started playing I may have stacked the odds in favour of the Nids by bringing the Harpy, the Tervigon and the Winged Tyrant to watch over the game. He couldn't stop drooling over the models. hehehe Now I just need to teach how to use GS and we're set.
@Lindsay: Is that article on game mechanics online or is it in the last WD? Sounds like an interesting read.
@Unicorn: I really like your advice about learning how to lose with either force while keeping the game close and interesting while making sure that it's not obvious that you are holding back or throwing the game. Give them enough of a challenge that they feel they had to work for the win as opposed to giving a chance to roll dice and move a steamroller across the board unimpeded. At one point in the game he was at 0 vs.3 KP's and things looked grim. Judging from the smile on his face at the end of the game, I'd say that having to claw his way to a victory (literally) made him appreciate the win that much more.
If he doesn't end up going for Nids I hope he at least heeds my advice and goes for a Xenos race, such as the new Necrons. The world doesn't need another Imperial army...
I'm in danger of committing threadomancy but i was promised pods and i expected paint. I'm sure you haven't abandoned this project, well i hope. Also check your pms.
Oh, i hope you had a nice primary gifting period, and of course enjoy the auxiliary generosity zone.
It's been a long time since I said I'd take a "short break" to work on Dark_Eldar, too long.
After a good hobby break I'm back in the saddle and, thanks to Casey and his suggestion of a "Nid Year Resolution", the Spawning Vats' waters are churning again.
The goal therefore is to finish at least one project per month, from here until June. Some monsters might be doable 2 in a month since they are almost completed but the goal is still to stick to one beast at a time until it's done. Should I get ahead of myself with a Nid project, I'll jump over to the Dark Eldar in order to balance things out. Here then are the major milestones, in no particular order.
Flying Tyrant (70%)
Harpy (80%)
Tyrannofex(90%)
Tervigon 1 (95%)
Tervigon 2 (5%)
12 more Devilgaunts
2 Venomthropes
Bone Swords and Lash Whips for 17 Warriors.
To add further fuel to this fire I played a 4k game against Chaos over the weekend and it was a blast. Not only because my opponent is a great guy to play against but also, because it was a very large game, I got the chance to put all 8 (yes, 8) of my Monstrous Creatures on the table. Even in their current state, the game was a showstopper at the store.
For the time being, no pods, just Monstrous Creatures and proper kit for Warriors but it'll be well worth it.
I'm glad your back on the yellow chitin road, so to speak. I hope i wasn't to pushy, the plan was to badger you enough that it'd get you musing again but not so much that you wanted to beat me over the head with an old metal Hive Tyrant. Mission accomplished?
I have to say, i'm really looking forward to working adjacent to you on a similar project. For me, it gives me a chance to pick up tips and try and develop my skills, i'm not sure what you get out of it though. Haha! I know i haven't started a thread yet but i'm pretty busy for the next few days, i have lots of free time after that so i'll be hot on your tail. I'll send you a quick snap of my Hive Tyrant in it's current state, it's not much to look at though as the green stuff needs smoothed out; i had to deconstruct it to and extent(the legs and base are now a separate piece); and it's still in it's early stages. But less of the excuses, , i'll take a few snaps and pm you them.
Oh a 4k game?! That must have been great fun, i can imagine the crowd that would have gathered, may i ask for a short summary? Did you win?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Scratch that, i don't have any AA batteries, i stopped buying them when i got a rechargeable pack for my xbox. Though, it turns out, i could open a shop with my collection of anonymous remote controls and AAA batteries.
What do I gain out your friendly (cattle)prodding? Simple. A clear set of goals to finally finish my conversions. Thanks for that btw.
Ironically, the first model I also picked to work on was my Tyrant. He had minimal GS required in order to finally be completed, namely, a little bit of gap filling around the edges of the base, at the tail joint and the 2 joints on the top of the torso armour plates. Once I get back from work, I'm hoping I have the time to post up the quick series of pics showing my step-by-step approach.
As for that 4k game, it was nuts. Rather than go for an Apoc style everything-but-the-kitchen-sink list, we agreed on 4k and 2 force charts. My army list was roughly:
1 Tyrant
1 Flyrant
1 Harpy
1 TyrannoFex
2 Tervigons
2 Dakka Fexes
4 Shrikes
6 Hive Guard
6 Biovores
20 Genestealers
30 Gargoyles
30 Devilgants
Also produced about 47 Gants from the Tervigons over the course of the game
Setup was pitched battle and seize with 5 objectives.
Once my opponent's army was in range the amount of firepower it had to endure was quite staggering. He typically plays guard and yet he just couldn't understand how it was possible that nids can throw that many shots down range.
The game had to be called in turn 4 and finished as a draw. Had we had time to keep going it would have been dicey for him as the 2 objectives he held were only protected by 2 and 1 marines respectively wheras I was camping out on 2 objectives with 10 Genestealers, 15 Devilgants, 9 Gaunts, 1 Tervigon, 3 Biovores and 3 Hive Guard. All my biovores, hive guard and 3 Monstrous Creatures were either within shooting or charging range of his 3 claiming marines. Not a good position to be in for him, no doubt.
His army is brilliantly converted and painted, in sharp contrast to mine, which is only converted, thereby lighting a fire under my ass to get back to work on my beloved gribblies.
@ Gaussguy: Thank you very much. In spite of what GW did to the Codex, they also graced the 40k line-up with the most rewarding army for sculpters when they came up with Nids in their current form. I'm just gleefully following the creative path that was laid out in front of me.
Speaking of which, here we go back into the rabbit hole.
To start off this Nid Year Resolution, I'm starting at the top in 2 ways. First, finishing the lynchpin unit of my army, the Tyrant. Second, I'll be showing a basic step-by-step for filling gaps.
Step 1.
Once you have your ball of GS well mixed, stretch out a corner and twirl it between your fingers until you get long and thin hairs of putty. Think roughly spaghettini or angel hair pasta thin. Drape the material very loosely over the intended so you know you have enough and repeat on the side. For tools, I can't speak highly about the soft paint shapers. GS does not stick to the tools, even when they aren't wet. Another tool I strongly suggest is a stainless steel dental tool. Both ends have a the same shape but they are different gauges of wire, therefore you have 2 "dimple makers" in one tool. This is just what I use at this stage. If you're comfortable with anything else, don't worry about changing. The main idea of this step is just to get the GS loosely where it needs to go.
Step 2.
Using the tools from the previous step, start at one end of the spaghetti and press it into the creases of the gap and the model's details. Work from one direction to the other rather than starting in the middle or pressing a bit here and there. By going "down the line", you're basically slowly working the GS all the way down the model and pushing any extra GS down its surface as though squeezing toothpaste out of the tube. Those areas where you had undercuts in the model will need the extra GS as filler because the strand was only loosely draped over the model's surface remember? The main idea behind this step is to roughly fill in the gap. Don't worry about detail just yet.
Step 3.
Depending on a whole bunch of factors that I won't get into right now, if your GS is starting to not be too pliable, you might need a stiffer tool than the acrylic shapers I was showing early. This is when the rubber grip on a needle file comes in really handy. The tip has just the perfect ratio of stiffness to pliability to be a great shaping tool. Contrary to shapers however, you'll need to keep it wet as GS sticks to it like mad. Anyways! At this point you'll be wanting to push the GS into the gap while also, in some areas, draw the GS thin in order to smooth out the transition between the lump of GS and the surrounding. Pardon the bad "visual image" here but, the technique is not alike scraping dog poo off your shoe. No seriously,think about it for a minute. The first step you take your shoe is loaded with crap so your treads barely make contact with your scrubbing surface but after a few passes, you're smearing thinner and thinner layers until you finally get rid of most of sticky substance. Smoothing out GS is exactly like that. The first dip of the shaper feels like you stepped in poo, the next few dips, prods and pulls are when you actually spread the GS in a thinner and thinner film until it creates a very smooth transition from the patched up area and the surrounding area. Keeping your tools wet at this stage will allow to draw GS layers that are thinner than a human hair yet still stick to the surface of the model.
Step 4.
Once you've smoothed in the GS as well as possible, it's time to rough it up a bit. Basically, now that you've made sure the GS is covering the areas that needed to be covered, you're now going to go back and add some surface detail to the GS in order to give it character. Notice the carapace dimples that were added back into the left hand stripe, close to the chimneys. In contrast, notice the smoothness of the transition over on the right hand side where the GS actually changes color because it's been spread so thin.
This is also the step where you sculpt the sharpness back into armour plates and other details as the GS isn't so sticky and it's starting to establish a shape memory. Basically, assuming you went with the usual 1 part blue: 1.25 part yellow, 45 minutes after you mixed the GS it's almost hard-set and you can doodling scratches into the surface. Pressing hard will barely do anything because GS will "heal itself" and smooth the groove you did, leaving just a shallow scratch instead. With experience you'll learn how to time this part of the sculpting phase and also how much pressure you can use as it's almost impossible to describe what to do or how to recognise the correct phase in the GS curing process. Just remember what I wrote when you're experimenting and at some point, it'll click, trust me.
And done.
All this guy is a bit of extra attention on the base, such as sand and maybe and enemy corpse and then he's finally reading for priming and painting.
And to think it's taken me longer to post what I did on him than it actually took for doing it... I really need to work on my writing!
Okay, i'm rested and it's time for a response more worthy of your update.
Firstly, its nice to see the 'Nid Year Resolution taking it's first steps on your side. I'll be joining you shortly.
I really enjoyed reading your tutorial, your process is very similar to mine the main difference being that yours has a definitive plan to it. As much as i do pretty much the same thing, i tend to just do it without walking through step by step. It's nice to finally see it written down, it reveals where i can avoid errors and improve my technique.
One part that i found particularly interesting was Step 4. I've always attempted to follow the natural shape and keep the GS as smooth as possible. I never thought of this stage as the perfect opportunity to cram in some extra detail. Good thinking, batman!
You mentioned basing, i'm going to be stealing an idea from insaniak for mine. What do you think?
P.S. Is there any chance of a quick shot of your Tyrant's neck? I had to GS a whole new, much longer, neck for mine and i'm quite happy with it. I actually put my own stamp on it by adding detail i hadn't seen in any of GW's stock biomass.
Firstly, its nice to see the 'Nid Year Resolution taking it's first steps on your side
Thanks it's good to be back.
I have just been looking your amazing models and this really inspires me to try more things with my new nid army, good work keep it up!!!!!!!!!!!!
And that right there is why I love posting on Dakka! Thanks for the support, the appreciation and letting yourself be inspired. I wouldn't be half as far with my Nids (or the Dark Eldar) if it weren't for the tons of great people on here.
In regards to basing, I took an easy night yesterday after posting the pictures and revisited bases of the Tervigon, both Tyrants and all 6 Shrikes. Courtesy of the pummice gel and some local beach sand I used in the Dark Eldar thread, all bases have got a new coat of texture that should look much better than what I had before. I won't be doing anything near as involved as Insaniak but his basing is definitely inspiring to say the least.
The Foot Tyrant is well and truly finished, modeling wise, and thus in a holding tank until I start painting the lot of them.
More news once I get home.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Last quick update of the day.
Working on the Flyrant's wings according to the 4 steps I spoke about in the previous tutorial.
Whoa, they look really fantastic, man, i particularly like the little bits of raised scar tissue that break up the surface. Also it ages the wings without you having to fill them with holes.
30mins! You work so quickly i spend 5 hours staring at it until i am sure i know what i want to do then it takes me 10 to do it! Well, maybe i'm exaggerating a bit.
P.S. If your interested i wrote some fluff for my 'Nids and a couple of other things. Link's in my sig if you have time.
...I'm shameless.
@Sheep, Prime & Wyomingfox: Thanks guys, it seems that taking a break with Dark Eldar was a good thing as I don't feel like I've lost any of the ideas regarding the Nids, just a bit of sculpting ability, and it's coming back quick thanks to the wealth of projects and comments.
Get comfy folks, it's going to be a long one. Having been sick for the past 2 days, I put my time to good use and worked on the Nid Year Resolution.
Wednesday is when it all began. Looking at the completed Tyrant and his touched up based it became obvious that the Warriors, Tervigon and Tyrannofex were in dire need of a base makeover.
Step 1. A generous coat of resin sand, a.k.a. pummice gel.
Step 2. Sprinkle with beach sand. Shake off excess. done. In 5 minutes.
A quick tip to beginning modelers in 3 parts. Firstly, green stuff is the basic tool of conversions, if you don't have any, do yourself a favour and buy some. Secondly, that being said, don't buy it from GW or Dream Pod 9 as they just repackage 36-inch strips and charge you 6 times the price, literally. Go online and buy it either in tubes or in 36-inch strips and on average it will cost you 10$. Thirdly, even if you think you'll be doing a lot of conversions, don't buy six boxes of green stuff like I did 3 years ago. Just buy 1 box at a time or you'll end with a desk that looks like this 3 years down the road...
Over time the yellow strips, which are a resin that harden when mixed with the blue catalyst, will form a skin on their surface. If you don't remove that skin prior to mixing you will get yellow chunks in your GS, making it really difficult to get a smooth finish. Thankfully it isn't hard to remove that skin, but it a painfully slow process which eats into your creative time. Today I decided to just clean up a batch of GS so I wouldn't have to do this annoying task for quite a while.
Another thing to keep in mind when you're working with GS is that it's quite likely you'll mix more GS than you actually need for a particular project. The solution? Always have at least 2 projects on the go at the same time so you don't let the extra GS go to waste. Case in point: the Tyrannofex. While working on the Flyrant's wings today I had enough GS to add detailing on either side the big gun as well as finishing off an extra top armour and closing gaps on the Warrior's legs.
A small strip can go a long way when detailing gaps.
Voila.
Speaking of Warriors, while working on their bases I ended up reposing and repositioning almost all of them so they'd be both more stable and dynamic as well as filling in a bunch of gaps that had been staring at me for the last year.
Exhibit A.
Exhibit B.
This one needed some ankle surgery due to the reposing so I figured I'd also show you a pic of how I assemble the legs so they don't snap off. In short, fine brass rod to pin the Genestealer claws to the ankle. Quick yet finicky.
But worth it in the end.
Exhibit C.
This one had large gaps to fill where I pinned the leg sections together. Start off with a small ball of GS and shove it in with your finger. You're better off starting with less than you actually need and add as required than try to remove some GS later as it's very like you'll pull off the GS off.
Using your wet tools, start wrapping the GS the pin until you loop all around. In this case I realised I needed more in the back of the knee (because he took an arrow...).
Once the GS is filling the gap, add in the details. It was also time to finally GS the tail that I snapped off 2 years ago. My approach to wrapping an armature is to create thin ribbons of GS and then twist it around the wire. I've found this makes it easier to get an even thickness of GS over the wire, minimising the chances that it will poke through the GS as smooth it out.
Keep wrapping until you get to the end.
For long smooth yet circular objects like a tail, I prefer using my finger to smooth GS as with tools it's too easy to press too hard and create creases or indents that then become a pain to clean up. Smooth the GS by dragging from thick area to thin area until you get the tail to the desired length. Remove any excess with scissors so you don't pull extra GS off the tail.
Enjoy your successful tail surgery.
And now finally the star of the show, the continuing saga of the Tyrant's wing. I'll keep the comments to a minumum and let the step-by-step images do most of the talking.
Spreading GS into the corners.
Smoothing and spreading uniformly over the area.
Adding detail, starting from the edges.
Done.
Starting the next wing section. Filling in the area with strips due to the width that needs coverage.
Smoothing and spreading.
Smoothing completed. Excess GS removed with fine detailing tool.
And done.
That's all for tonight, hope you enjoyed the show.
Okay, first up, i hope you feel better soon dude, being ill's nae fun. Lemsip/paracetamol and ibuprofen at two hour intervals. Rinse and repeat.
You have really made massive headway while you've been struck down by Papa Nurgle, even a god of Chaos can't stifle your creative genius!
Right, spill the bea. ...pumice gel. Whats the low down on this stuff? Do i need to order some?
The warriors are looking even more dynamic than before, they look great, man! Their new bases really add something to them. Just one question there, is the last tail picture the wrong one or have you just not finished?
The Tyranofex and Flyrant wings are coming on in leaps and bounds too! Looks like i need to work hard to keep up with the pro.
On that subject, i have a conclusive date for my first update. Come rain or shine i will be starting my P&M blog on the 1st of February. That'll also be the online debut of my miniatures, safe to say, i'm bricking it. The date for finishing the green of my Hive Tyrant will still be the end of February but i'm planning to get it done quicker than that.
Hey Dark_Gear- those wings look fantastic! I also have just read through your new player introduction - what a great effort, well done! I feel this is exactly what I need since I don't think I've played in three years!
Nurgle it seems has devised a new virus, I call it "the conversion bug". Symptoms include having your flooded with ideas to the point where your hands can't keep up. This usually results in taking perfectly valid model kits, chopping them up, splicing in new bitz and wanting to hide large sections of the model with GS so you can extra detail.
Edited the last post to show the right image of the Shrike's Tail.
@Tortured-Robot: I'm glad this is helping possibly get back into the hobby. A good heap of praise should go to Casey for egging me on via multiple PM's and his idea of a Nid Year Resolution. When you're stuck in a rut, nothing beats having friends to push you out of the cave and back to the workbench.
@Tarnish: Glad to hear it. What is your next project? Make sure you link it so we can check it out.
@Prime: Thanks. I'm planning getting the other wing detailed up today and ready for another game tomorrow. The plan is to win by keeping the opponent distracted by the conversions.
@Casey:Thanks again for nudging me and can't wait to see your first update. Your concept for the Mycetic spore sounds good. How do you plan on building it? Foam body with GS over top?
As for the Resin Sand, here's the scoop.
A few months ago I stumbled upon one of BOLS' older articles which spoke about pummice gel.
It seemed like something useful especially since it was right around the time I was looking at basing all of my DE army for an upcoming tourney. Looking at the art supply store I found a variety of products from different companies such as Liquitex and Golden. Both brands offer various coarseness of pummice gel and I chose the medium grit offering. It works like a hot damn. All it took was 45 minutes and the whole 1750 point army had enough texture to be considered "based" for a table-top level..
What does it look like?
Behold! Resin sand in a thick water soluble acrylic gel (this last bit is important but I'll explain later).
How to use it
Get a jar of water and a coarse hog hair brush. A good size to use is a number 3 (roughly 1/4 inch wide) square tip brush as it allows to scoop up large amount of the gel, which speeds up the application when you have a lot of ground to cover. A cool feature of this product is that it can easy go thick or thin and that it will not shrink when it dries, contrary to white glue and sand. This means you can actually sculpt terrain and texturise in one step. When using the pva glue and sand combo for texture, you'd typically have to build up the terrain with another material first (such as putty or plaster) before adding the pva/sand.
Just paint it on and have fun.
Aim for good coverage, don't worry too much about painting over details at this point.
Remember what I said earlier about this media being water soluble? Once you're satisfied with your coating of resin sand, rinse the gel off the brush but don't dry it yet. On the contrary, load it up with water and brush off excess gel in selected, such as the base's rim or bits of terrain like that grey beam beside the ripper.
Also, because this material has an acrylic base, it functions just like pva glue in that you can use it to hold sand, rocks or whatever else you want to use for your bases. In this case I'm applying the usual beach sand from the bucket.
Total basing time: 10 minutes.
Price-wise, you're looking at anywhere between $12-$18 (canadian) depending on which brand and which coarseness you go for. Is it more expensive than pva and sand? yes. Considering that by using this gel you can effectively sculpt and texture terrain in one step and one sitting, this product is a time-saver. You'll spend less time fiddling with multiple products to achieve the same result which means that, especially if you have precious little hobby time, you'll be able to spend more time working on the models themselves rather than the bases. I now consider resin sand an essential part of my toolbox.
If you're a student, I'd suggest buying pummice gel from an art supply store as they'll frequently give student discounts, unlike hobby stores, which is where you're more likely to find the Vallejo pummice gel.
5 out of 5 stars (regardless of brand since I'm not doing an infomercial here, just spreading the word about a cool product.
Dark_Gear wrote:Nurgle it seems has devised a new virus, I call it "the conversion bug". Symptoms include having your flooded with ideas to the point where your hands can't keep up. This usually results in taking perfectly valid model kits, chopping them up, splicing in new bitz and wanting to hide large sections of the model with GS so you can extra detail.
All hail Papa N! And people assume daemons are the bad guys! Actually that reminds m... No, i am actively trying to forget my epic army idea until the rest of my projects are finished!
Edited the last post to show the right image of the Shrike's Tail.
Nice one, it's looks great, i'm going to be doing ... 8? tails so that tutorial was really helpful.
A good heap of praise should go to Casey for egging me on via multiple PM's and his idea of a Nid Year Resolution. When you're stuck in a rut, nothing beats having friends to push you out of the cave and back to the workbench.
@Casey: Thanks again for nudging me and can't wait to see your first update. Your concept for the Mycetic spore sounds good. How do you plan on building it? Foam body with GS over top?
As we always say in my family, there is no need to say thank you: One day i might get stuck in a rut and you could well be the guy that gets me fired up again, that's thanks enough. As for the Spod, glad you liked the idea i'm quite chuffed with it. I've sourced foam eggs on ebay, the larger ones are hollow and in two halves which is a god send. They have a lot of sizes but i think i'll be going with these two: 1 and 2. I'll probably have to harden them with PVA before i start sculpting over them but they might be dense enough to take the pressure, i'll have to wait and see. This might also be the time to get myself some brown stuff. From what i've heard it's cheaper and comes in larger quantities so it's good for getting the base of the sculpt before you add detail. I've also heard it's easier to get sharp edges with it so it'll make the armour plates infinitely easier to build up in the early stages. That could all change between now and then though as i'm thinking they will be the final models that i green. They may well be the first to get a lick of paint though.
As for the Resin Sand, here's the scoop....
...Hope that helps.
Indeed it does! It looks like you succeeded in adding another must to my own kit. Thats reminds me, these 'Nids are going to give me a nice opportunity to really get a feel for the Tamiya Extra Thin. And when it comes time for me to try my hand with pummice gel i'll be back to your tutorial post to get the low down. It won't be on my 'Nids because i'm going for city basing, or my Marines because i've got a treat panned for them, or my Necromunda Gang because they are getting metal sheet with treading. Hmmm, maybe Infinity, or, dare i say, it'll have to wait to see if that daemon project ever gets off the ground. I'm sure i'll find a reason to play with a new toy.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Tau! I'll use the pummice gel on the couple of Tau conversions i'm doing that get my attention now and again.
Just a short post to rest the eyes from sculpting. There has been crazy progress on the Flying Tyrant since the last update, there's only about 5-6 hours of work left to do now.
Had another big game today&mdash:3500points.
For the first time ever, Zooanthropes and a pod were taken off the bench and put on the field. Total kills, 1 Land Raider, 1 Demolisher, 1 Rhino and 4 marines (thanks to an explosion).
Not bad but tally even though I gave up 2 Kill points. In their honour the Micetic Spore concept sketches have been taken out of storage and I've purchased Milliput for a sculpt.
I received a really good question via PM and rather than reply to it in private, I figured I'd post the in the thread as the answer might just come in handy to the modding community at large.
have you had any experience with smoothing out green stuff that you've already applied. I've used layers of watered down PVA washes before with some success, it was quicker than smoothing out with more GS. I'm just wondering if there is a definitive technique that i haven't come across yet. And don't say getting it right the first time.
To start, thanks for teaching me a new as I never have thought to water down PVA glue and use for a leveling a rough surface.
As for how to smooth GS that's already cured, I can't really say what the best solution is… so I'll go with the alternatives
Your options for smoothing out GS, in order of preference and ease of execution, by my experience are:
1. Covering with another layer of GS.
2. Covering with another type of putty, such as Milliput or Mr. Surfacer. Milliput is particularly good because it's water-soluble which means you could dilute a small amount and effectively create your own custom recipe "Liquid Green Stuff".
3. Sanding and/or filing. Word of warning: you'll need to de-gunk your files frequently.
4. Covering with a self-leveling acyrlic gel. Word of Warning: takes forever and a day to dry.
5. Covering with watered down PVA glue.
And finally, the most dreaded of options, which is sometimes unavoidable but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and do it… Why do you think I resculpted the enitre surface of the Tyrant's wings after a catastrophic GS mishap?
5. Rip the offending section of GS and start all over again. More on this later when I post the progress pics of the wings.
Option 1 is by far the easiest and the fastest as that section with be patched up and ready to work within a few hours as opposed to days.
Of course, the best solution is the pre-emptive one, namely, making sure it's smooth the first time around but again, speaking from experience, I know that is not always possible. If you're having problems smoothing out the GS, then maybe it's not the sculptor but the tools that are the problem. In such a case, let me know and I give a run down of the tools I use and how I use them.
Thanks dude that was really helpful. For a start, i think you've convinced me to stick to the tried and tested green stuff layer.
I agree, tools are the problem most of the time, a lot of people think its themselves because they've never used the right kit. My kit is pretty solid right now, colour shapers being the core of it. As for preempting the problem and getting it smooth first time, its 100% the best solution. I stupidly attempted much of my Tyrant's torso in bad lighting. "That's a no, no." Where's the quote from?
As a side note: What do you think of liquid green stuff? When it came out i was more than skeptical but after i heard that it's closer to the consistency of honey than water, i've been intrigued.
Just a short post, scultping. Expect a major backlog of images to be posted this week.
Yup, GS just works, hence it's popularity with mini-sculptors.
I'll hold off on making a judgement call regarding Liquid Green Stuff (LGS from now on) until i get to:
a) Try milliput for it's water-solluble sculpting properties.
b) Try Mr. Surfacer.
c) Figure who GW licenced and repackaged LGS from for the usual re-donk markup. I'll then buy so I don't pay for repackaging. Heck, as far we can tell, GS bough Mr. Surfacer, injected it with a green dye that matches the tint of GS so they could market it as such.
That being said, some people seem to find that LGS fills a niche (pun intended) need that matches their desires and that's fine. The joy of this hobby is that there's always 1001 ways to achieve the same end, none of them are "the best" method, but some tools are definitely more efficient time-wise or money-wise than others and I'm not the one to judge.
Good lighting is key, especially when painting. When scultping on the other hand, I find have slightly lower lighting to work best as I can see the shadows on a surface, and thus can tell if the surface is textured "just right". For example, the Tyrant wings are impossible to work in a sunlit room as there just is too much light to tell the highlights from the recesses.
Looking forward to hearing what you have to say when you get round to doing those tests. It sounds like your sculpting has been prolific, i'm really going to have to work my arse off to keep up amn't i?
Disaster just occurred! The torso and attached head of my HT just slipped from a height as i put it down, and bounced off of my desk.
Then something awesome happened! The piece appeared undamaged. On further inspection the head was broken off but miraculously had detached where the neck attaches to the torso although remained on the pin. This actually makes the next part of the sculpt easier, i couldn't have engineered it that way. Thank god for solid gluing, pinning and a firm coating of green stuff!
Anyway, as i was saying... It's going to be tough to keep up, especially with the plans i'm making. It's going to be fun though, i haven't ever worked to a target or deadline, or with such a strong vision and plans laid out. I'll be posting my first images ever tomorrow which is daunting, i hope they aren't too rough(Builders in so i don't have a proper picture taking area.). I'll also be combining the blog with some fluff i've written.
If i'm overreaching my deadline and Tyranids are getting a bit in face i'm going to post up my first army(Very badly painted.) I'm going to rewrite the fluff for them as i go. Do you think i should post them in a P&M blog thread or Showcase?
Sorry about all the questions, think about it this way, soon i'll be spamming up my own blog with this tripe.
“<em>The smart industrious man always over-reaches at the start of a project, but only the fool refuses to scale things back once things are under way.</em>”
—Marc-Andre Renaud | 2012
So go ahead, by all means give yourself a mountainous challenge with your Tyranid army build, just remember that the journey will probably be a long one. FYI, my very Carnifex and the very first time I used GS dates back to 2008… And here I am now, resculpting wings, magnefising models to bases and building display boards. It's been a fun trip to say the least.
Dark_Gear wrote:"The smart industrious man always over-reaches at the start of a project, but only the fool refuses to scale things back once things are under way."
- Marc-Andre Renaud | 2012
P.S. I am following a new hobbyist, trying to help guide her into the world of warhammer. Dropped your quote from yesterday, i thought you'd want to know.
P.S.S. 13hours until i go live with a P&M blog. Their wont be much to see for a few days though, until i start making serious progress.
Bring out the comfy chair, pour out the drink of choice, it's time for a lengthy progress report.
Here then is the current State of the Table:
In the left hand corner you'll notice a wee spider hanging. At this point I'd like to extend some major thanks to Jason for effectively donating an Arachnorok to my on-going army conversions. The kit is greatly appreciated and will be put to great use in short order.
Soon, the kit on the right will have its legs plucked and will be rebuilt as a Tervigon.
I forget where I mentioned this but in a previous post I said something to the effect that one of the hardest things to do in a project is take a step back and know when to just start something over again. While working on the Tyrant's wings, there came a point where a previous addition just didn't seem to fit so the hard choice had to be made…
A few hours of sourcing out bitz, cutting and sculpting all ripped apart, but for good reason. It just didn't fit with the rest of the sculpting anymore. But before I reveal what actually replaced it, I'd like to share a cool little basing demo.
Ever since I started working on the Tyrannofex conversion I knew that basing would be a pain because of the long spindly legs. At first I figured the model could just be fielded without a base but let's face, a model without a base just doesn't look as cool. Eventually the solution came to me when I realised I'd never use that Skyray turret which had been sitting in my bits bin for 2 years and at last the model had a "base". I say that way because stuck to the base and therefore couldn't be picked up during a game, it could only be slid around. The hint of solution came when the Trigon Prime was magnetised to its base. The idea was that with magnets would be easy to carry and stow away securely but it could also be setup and used on the table without worrying about the base and the model coming apart. Once again however, the problem was the legs. Due to their thinness, it would be hell to glue anything. Last weekend I bit the bullet again when I realised I'd have to shorten the legs a bit in order to get a wide enough surface of plastic on which to glue the magnets, hence this image.
Rare-earth magnets come in all sizes and it just happens that I had the perfect size (and strength) magnets for the task at hand. To make sure the magnets wouldn't show on top of the base, holes would have to drilled. Figuring out where to drill was accomplished by painting the bottom surface of the magnets…
… and pressing the model to the base.
With the holes located it was just a matter of drilling them and, with the model slotted in, the magnets were superglued to the bottom of the base.
And voila, no more issues with moving the model and it's base while gaming.
But we're not done yet! As cool as it is that we have a magnetised Tyrannofex, there is the small issue that those magnets now stick out like sore thumbs. The solution therefore is to create some transitional detail with some GS.
Seeing as how it will be covered up with the mix or resin sand and beach sand, the GS doesn't have to perfect. However it does need to set so I did a rough shaping and let it sit overnight and moved onto other projects while it cured. Now using a metal spatula for precision, the resin sand was applied over top of the cured GS.
The acrylic media was then shaped and lightly coated with beach sand to match the surrounding areas.
Some extra resin sand was added to the base to fill out some gaps after a few test fittings.
And now we have a fairly seamlessly magnetised fitted to its custom base.
By playing around with variations of this method I'm sure you could base pretty much any model in your collection, even going so far as to making themed bases for your army.
And now, the main attraction, the Flying Tyrant.
The last week has been a very productive one in regards to the Tyrant. The weapon arms were finally converted and magnetised so that I can swap out the layout should I so desire. The tail was touched up and the joint between the tail and the body was filled a bit more. The neck and some rib cage gaps were filled in as well. Most importantly, all of the wings' flat areas were covered up and resculpted, or should I say redetailed. The leading edge of the left arm was ripped off and resculpted in order to be more in line with the rest of the model. The wing claws were chopped off and replaced with new claws taken from a Trigon kit. And finally, the Tyrant's base was given the now customary resin/beach sand texturising treatment.
From here you can see the underside of the wings and the resculpted neck muscles. I tried to replicate the flow of the wrinkles on either side of the wings as much as possible rather than just sculpt detail in at random.
Last but not least, the top view for the wing and carapace details.
This then is what I've been up to for the last week. The Nid Year Resolution is progressing faster than anticipated, which means I'll probably dedicate February to Dark Eldar and I need to build up some Wracks and some Grotesques so I can play with a hybrid Coven/Uber-shootie list.
Awesome stuff! you make my mind boggle with how you can convert those models! they all look absolutely amazing, my favorite that i've seen is actually the one with the arachnarok abdomen and carnifex torso you showed next to the gifted model! I just love how it looks!
The Tyrant is looking slicker than ever! Are the flesh hooks a count as lash whip? The neck sculpt is nice and tendony which adds to the overall look really nicely. I've gone for something distinctly more fleshy because it suits my pose better but i think the muscley look is nicer.
Good job on basing the Tyrannofex, every model needs a base they can be proud of!
The last 4 days have been a blur! Found out at noon on Friday that I'm boarding tomorrow morning at 7am for a 14-day business trip to Mexico. Needless to say, there will be no progress on the models and quite possibly no posts at all during that time.
A bunch of crazy personal insights happened during the trip to Mexico which sparked a renewed focus on the hobby. I'm not normally one to share intimate details online but seeing as how these events sparked a renewed interest and focus in the hobby, writing this out could help you appreciate where I'm planning on going in the next few months and why.
If you just want the hobby updates, ignore the spoiler button and read on.
Spoiler:
First, a bit of background information. My boss finally reached a point in his latest book whereby we were ready for final editing and we could start on the layout which means it was time to find a good place to just hunker down and finish the book in a "distraction free environment", also known as an all-inclusive Mexican Resort. The idea is to get away from all the phones so we can focus on one project and just get it done. The fact that when we're not working there are 15 restaurants, 12 bars, 3 miles of beaches and 24-hour room service really helps to concentrate. It's how he finished his first book so it seemed like a great idea to do this again for his book.
While flying down to Mexico our plane hit some nasty turbulence. Not only was it a really bumpy flight but on more than one occasion it felt as though our just dropped for about 5 seconds at a time, which means we were losing a few hundred feet of altitude. Not a fun feeling. I've never been afraid of flying but this was different. Even the flight attendants were buckled in and quiet. While the logical part of my brain was telling me this sort of thing happens all the time and that I shouldn't worry since the masks didn't drop from the ceiling, the fearful lizard brain was seriously considering it's own mortality. The only way I got it to be quiet was appeal to break out the sketch book and draw some bugs. In a morbid sort of way it was somewhat comforting to think that if our plane crashed and burned at least I'd die with a pencil charred into my clasped hand. When the the plane landed without any issues the whole cabin breathed a sigh of relief but a haunting feeling still remained. If I was able to accept a possible death as long as I had a pencil in my hand, why wasn't I more diligent with my creative projects outside of turbulent plane ride?
Four days after arriving in Mexico, my boss had to be rushed to the hospital for a heart arythmia and had to be kept under observation for 5 days.
So what with the event on the plane and then my boss' possible heart attack, it made me look at how I could improve my focus on creativity even more, and even question whether this hobby of our is actually something worth pursuing to the point that it could be considered an achievement years down the road seeing as how time is in fact precious.
The answer I came up with was that in order to reach a point of pride with my work I would really have to increase my efforts because yes, I do feel that sculpting painting and converting is a worthwhile pursuit. An example of what I'm looking at for inspiration are the people at Massive Voodoo. They paint and convert to an insane level as well have painting jam sessions, give lessons and post tutorials. Basically, they live, work and breathe creativity whereas it feels like up until now I've just dabbled.
While in Mexico I started up a blog over on Tumblr as I'm seriously considering starting to make conversion kits available. it can be found at:
Dakka will be used mostly to post the WIPs as various projects proceed because the level of community feedback here is just astounding, whereas Tumblr will be used to post the major project milestones. The idea is that it will be easier to add a webstore component to a blog down the road once some kits are available.
In other bits of news, in case you've been living under a rock for the past 3 weeks, GW will soon be releasing the Tyranid 2nd wave. We finally have official models for bone swords, lash whips, the Flyrant, the Tervigon and the Tyrannofex. Unfortunately, I'm not really impressed with any of them. While the Tyrant's wings are very nice sculpts, the Rupture cannon and the sword/whip combo look like they were designed by a fresh-faced intern. They look rushed, poorly thought out and generally just don't fit seem to fit the Tyranid aesthetic as well as other GW creations. I'm looking forward to working on my own solutions and then making them available as kits as soon as the Tyrannofex and the Harpy are done.
Another project will be a spore pod. I was waiting on a delivery of Milliput before I could start and it thankfully showed up while I was away in Mexico. I'm really looking forward to finally using a new material for sculpting. We'll see how it goes.
Nice. Congratulations on your epiphany. You're work is what I would shoot for if I could do a nid army. Saw this, thought relevant... "Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. And you will get the enormous reward of having created something." -Kurt Vonnegut
Thanks Jabba, both for your compliment and the Vonnegut quote. It sounds like what I've been thinking for quite some time, hence my renewed focus on Nids.
Damn it, Dark_Gear! As usual your eloquence has given me a lot to think about. Maybe i need to re-evaluate some stuff too. I'll get back to you when i've had a think!
I have followed this blog and constantly find it inspirational in my Nids work - in fact, whenever I feel like I'm slipping behind in my modeling, this is one of my 'go to' blogs - so thanks
I must say - the Flyrant is looking really good - I wonder though whether you wished you had waited for the plastic one? I know you comment that you don't really like the wings (which I'de have to agree with) - but just thought it would be easier to use the plastic as a base to convert from rather than the metal...
I love your T-Fex - its a pity that some 'sticklers' may not let you use it during tourneys (claiming modelling for advantage) - but hopefully anyone you play will follow the rule of cool and be more than impressed enough to let it on the table.
I'm planning on getting the T-Fex and converting it with 6 legs and (a converted) rupture cannon on its back - I hope you don't mind me 'borrowing' some of your ideas when I finally get around to it.
Anyways - looking forward to seeing what you come up with and happy to comment/provide feedback (for what it's worth) in the meantime to help you get there.
@ Slice: Thanks. I"m glad I can be an inspiration considering you've done a lot more progress on your paint scheme than I have yet. I still have no idea what I'm ever going to do for all the fiddly details with my models. Only time will tell.
@Casey: I wouldn't go so far as saying that I have the gift of eloquence but thank you. I'm just happy to be a catalyst for self-reflection.
Regarding the GW Tyrant, as cool as the kit looks, I'm not sad at all I haven't waited. I actually find metal a joy to work with. At an earlier point in my life I spent about 5 years cold-forging steel armour for live-steel sword fighting, not SCA armour to fight with foam-covered batons, so working with pewter is actually somewhat relaxing as it's so soft and pliable. Granted it's slower than plastic and more brittle once it's complete but the heft of metal models is also a very satisfying perks of pewter based conversions.
A good pin vise, some titanium drill bits, a sharp bone saw as well as a set of slow, steady and patient hands is all you need to make the most of metal models. Using non-GW crazy glue which sets quickly also helps a lot.
As for the T-Fex conversion thus far it's pretty much as you say, the cool factor much wins out. What helps with any of the naysayers is that when I set out working the Tyrannofex I made sure that he was much larger than a standard Carnifex. My logic at the time was that if the Trygon came on a large flyer base, and considering that both the Tervigon and Tyrannofex pictures portrayed them as quite large, whenever the official GW models would be released they would probably be produced on large oval bases too. In other words, even before the GW came out, I was already building models that were much larger than Carnifexes and thus was actually building for dis-advantage on the proper size base. No post-release corrections will be required.
I've posted the Carnifex to Tyrannofex size comparison on Dark Machinations in case you're curious.
As long as you don't mind mentioning where your inspiration came from, feel free to steal any and all ideas.
If I can scrape the cash together to get both the Tyrant and Tervigon Kit, I foresee a unique Swarmlord conversion happening. The first thing would be to elongate the 4 swords as the current designs look like puny bone daggers. One of the better renditions of the Swarmlord thus far can be found on the BugSculptor's Tumblr. Tall model, long angular swords and many other cool touches make for an overall gorgeous and impressive conversion.
So what's next then?
Right on cue for another healthy does of motivation, a tournament was recently announced in my area. Details can be found here.
Having taken the Dark Eldar to the last Tourney, I'm tempted to take the Nids out for a stroll this time around but there is one annoying niggle. As any players familiar with the Nids knows, low-point games are not where the Nids shine. This tourney's cap is set for 1500points and there is an extra rule that you need to spend at least 400 points in Troops, which is somewhat annoying as my first test list only had 330 points of Troops.
Still weighing my options for the next Tournament's list and also still perplexed.
As I've mentioned before, 1500 points is hard enough for Nids already but when you add the extra difficulty of needing at least 400 points of troops, well let's just say it's hard to fit the few overpriced vehicle popping units and an HQ choice within 1100 points. Although I'm still not fully satisfied with the following list, it's getting close.
1 Flying Tyrant | HVC, LW/BS, AG, OA, AG, Wings
2 Harpies | TLHVC, AG
2x2 Hive Guard
1 Tervigon | ST, AG, TS, CS, Catalyst
20 Devilgants
1 Trigon Prime
The idea with this list is that the Tyrant and the Harpies would be flying around sniping vehicles or disembarked special characters thanks to their range, never lurking too far from the firebase just in case I end facing an accursed Space Wolf pod list. Should that happen I figure that 4 monstrous creatures should make short work of termies and Marneus. Seeing as how only the Tervigon has Initiative 1, 80% of my big gribblies don't have to worry too much about JOTWW. The Trigon Prime would serve as the backup long range/backfield interloper. The rest of the army would be the crawling bunker of chitin, sticking close to cover and objectives while it keeps bubble wrapping itself.
This list only offers up 8 KP's, assuming I don't produce any gants with the Tervigon which means MSU lists will find it hard to compete on that level.
The biggest weakness I can however is that if I do not diligently focus my attacks, my low model count means that I could easily be overwhelmed. At least the survivability of the Monstrous Creatures also means that the same applies to my opponent. If he doesn't focus fire, he'll just end up causing scattered wounds without ever really killing anything.
While taking a break from the Nids I tried to build an alternative list with Dark Eldar and I've come to the conclusion that 1500 points just is not a points level that is favoured by any 5th edition Xenos Codex as IG, GK's and Marines all seem to have enough cheap yet survivable options that fit really well in 1500 points games. Nids and Dark Eldar... not so much considering you always have to consider the fact that you could be facing 10 vehicles or more. How do you counter that with Nids? When you figure that out, let me know. In the meantime, I'll be playing Spreadsheet Hammer and working on new and interesting lists.
Well i've had a think and i'm none the wiser. You've definitely raised some questions which i'll be reflecting upon a lot over the next few weeks. Never mind that now though, there is much hobbying afoot i see!
I'm sensing some conversions coming on, myself. I'm going to ignore the pull of the new kits at least until i have finished the Tyranids and have started my Marines.
Taking your 'Nids to the tournament sounds like great fun, it's shame about the 400pts of troops though. I'm not equipped to offer any advice on your list but i see it's starting to come together. I think the Trygon Prime is a great choice and the Tervigon is pretty much a standard necessity. In fact, everything is great, it would be hard to improve upon without adding more points. I think the Prime might serve you better as an aggressive distraction though rather than backup. Keep us informed! So you know i'm checking out your Tumblr but i can't comment, i may just have to get an account at some point.
Came up with a new list that has a few advantages.
1. More boots on the ground
2. More anti-tank
3. No extra purchases required
Sadly it also has the following disadvantages.
1. Not as many Monstrous Creatures
2. Not as scary in CC as the other list.
3. Doesn't showcase as many of my conversions
On to the list:
Hive Tyrant | BSLW, HVC, AG, OA
Hive Guard | x2 squads of 3
Zooans | x2
Tervigon | ST, AG, TS Devilgants | x 24
Biovore | x3
Trigon Prime | AG
The key difference this list has over the last one is that now every element in army except for the Trigon Prime behaves as one intrinsically connected part of a big angry octopus. The Trigon should act as the lone Vanguard whereas the rest of the army just creeps forward like a solid 1300 point blob. Anything that assaults a section of the army will have to contend with the whole. By the same token, the ratio of medium-sized models to Monstrous Creatures is such that every unit barring the first rank will be getting a 4+ save.
I'll have to test on the weekend and see how it goes.
This is such an amazing thread. So much wonderful xenos stuff here to go blammo, but the conversions are so prestine and clean, I cant wait to see more of this. I hope the milliput works well for you, its a lot different to GS but I personally prefer it for simpler things that don't need to stretch out or fill gaps.
@ omgitsduane: Thanks for the compliments. You're right about Milliput being very different compared to GS. The more surprising difference is the earthy and fibrous texture of milliput when you're mixing it and how it contrasts with the smoothness you can achieve with milliput. I"ve yet to use it for patching up small gaps and cracks but i foresee it could be much better than liquid GS for sections that won't be subjected to any flex.
@ Casey: I looked into the commenting system for the Tumblr Blog and it turns out it the theme I'd chosen was the culprit. I've thus picked a new theme and commenting should be running now. Let me know how it goes.
More conversions are on the way but my flash has recently died. Seeing as how I don't really have the 500$ to get a replacement, I'll have to bring in the tripod from work in the coming week.
Recently completed is a magnetised Heavy Venom Cannon for the flying Tyrant. Not much else on the modeling as I've been busy trying to clean up the 4 buggered Failcast Wracks for my Dark Eldar as well as trying to figure out the lists for an upcoming tournament. While my first idea was to bring the Nids, it's really hard to get a list that will perform as well as my 1500 points of Dark Eldar. Seeing as how I tend to focus on 2k and up typically, going down to 1500 points feels like I'm shoe-horning my army into a shoe that's 4 sizes too small. Anytime I can't fit 6 Hive Guard and 6 Biovores I just feel like my army is going in naked. Learning a whole new style of play 4 weeks before a tourney is just not a good idea.
There's a conversion competition at the soon-to-be-opened Games Workshop store in Burnaby BC this coming Saturday.
The categories are:
1. Codex entry without model
2. Codex entry with a model
3. "Anything"
Paint is optional. Limit of 1 model per category per person, so 3 models.
I'll be there with a few gribblies to spread the word about the joy of converting Nids. My original intent was to bring pretty much every conversion I have but in light of the latest batch of new models by GW, category number 2 is a bit crowded.
Here's what I'm considering as a line-up.
Category 1 | Harpy (which gives me 4 days to finish it)
Category 2 | Tyranid Prime...
or Trigon Prime (both are completed)
Category 3 | This one is a toss-up between the Flyrant,
The Tyrannofex
and the Tervigon
as these now all have an official model. (all 3 need work)
So what it's survey time. Which model would you bring?
I guess I'd take the Tyranid Prime over the trigon, but that's more of a personal preference (it's in the name, perhaps ) . For catagory three, the choice becomes much harder. The wings on the flyrant are quite impressive, but the scratch-building of the tyrannofex might score you more points. The tervigon is my personal favorite, mostly due to its silhouette (very spider-like and creepy). Regardless, I think I would pick the tyrannofex.
Hey dude, that's cool i'll try commenting on your Tumblr soon.
As for the competition:
1. Harpy
2. Flyrant
3. Tervigon
Not really in the same categories you were suggesting but thats how i'd do it. Those 3 are my favourites... i think.
I've only just found this thread dark gear and it has leapfrogged to the very top of my blogs i will be watching avidly. The inspiration in here is absolutely mindblowing. I have just started playing around with bugs and I fear this blog has pushed me headfirst into the metaphorical digestion pool for assimilation into the hive mind.
I would also like to throw in a vote for the flyrant, its tied with the tervigon for me, but the deciding factor is the sheer amount of greenstuff.
p.s. if you don't win at least 1 category i will eat my hat.
..well...i will buy a hat, in order to eat it, just for the occasion.
Thank you all for the votes and the feedback but due to an abysmal lack of hobby time this past week, thanks to extended hours and 2 very full days at the Pacific Dental Conference researching tech for my office, I will not be attending GW's grand opening.
There was some progress on the models however. The Harpy, after almost a full-year in limbo, actually looks like it only needs about another 10 hours of sculpting rather than being a project perpetually stuck at 50%. Of the 3 models I had to finish this week, the Harpy is the only model that was actually worked on over the last 6 days. Enough about the past and on with the show.
From the front, a sexy slithering silhouette.
From the side, notice how all the lines of the weapon match the tail's direction. The weapon will be converted further down the road but at least it's on the model, it's magnetised and I won't have to remind people about the gun type every turn.
A head has finally been picked and magnetised. Plenty of GS yet to do but at least the positioning is good. The chest piece has also been milliputted in. GS of chitin still remains to be sculpted.
And finally, a quick shot of the base's added touch, magnetised ripper swarm wound markers. A quick addition of resin sand and beach sand to blend the rippers' bases a bit more is all that's required to make that part of the project completed.
Stay tuned for more and keep the comments flowing.
I really think for the competition you should go with the harpy, it has so much flavor and is not something people have seen, honestly its the first on I have ever seen.
) welcome as always.
Only problem is I can see myself running out rippers for the guards. Eh well, I guess I'll just have to improvise.
, those are quite inspiring for bone sword ideas, I may use them myself. I do have to say I like where your design as a whole is going.
Not a fan of the lips, on the sketch though. For some reason I'm thinking that head should be on a leviathin.
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Haha!
Well done for blasting your way past 10,000 views big man! 
I may have stacked the odds in favour of the Nids by bringing the Harpy, the Tervigon and the Winged Tyrant to watch over the game. He couldn't stop drooling over the models. hehehe Now I just need to teach how to use 
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No, i am actively trying to forget my epic army idea until the rest of my projects are finished! 
