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I recently found out i have a lot of 'Nids left over from a previous project. Enough for 500 to 1000pts anyway. Time to cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!

In the process of trying to come up with a 500pt list i ended up with 1500pts. The large force is based on a planetary assault and the smaller one is a derivative of it...

HQ:
Tyranid Prime(Devourer/2 Boneswords) - 90pts
Troops:
Tyranid Warriors x3(Devourer/Scything Talons)
+ (Mycetic Spore/Cluster Spines) - 140pts
Tyranid Warriors x3(Rending Claws/Scything Talons)
+ (Mycetic Spore/Cluster Spines) - 140pts
Elites:
The Doom of Malan'tai
+ (Mycetic Spore/Cluster Spines) - 140pts
Total: 510pts

I considered exchanging the Doom of Malan'tai for Deathleaper. This list is mainly for fun. I'll post more info later. Thoughts? Should i start again?

I have decided that my list will be 500, 750 or 1000pts. No more than that.

EDIT: Something i said to Dark_Gear when discussing this list...

I wrote:I am looking at a force which combines Mycetic Spores dropping in, Raveners and Trygons/Mawlocs bursting form the ground with Lictors an Genestealers awaking in infiltrated positions. I want units to arrive in a hail of shooting before the ensuing combat. I am really trying to capture the essence of a Tyranid assault on a planet while still turning out a quite competitive list. Tough challenge at this points level, i really don't make it easy for myself.

Think that's a good mission statement for this thread. I'll start working on a list or two.

A-ha! Finally found the thread.

Further to what I was saying about my 2 games yesterday, here was the list for 1000points.

Tyrant | Whip/Sword, Brainleech
Prime | Whip, Sword, AG, TS

(Hive Guard x2) x2

Tervigon | AG, TS, Catalyst
DevilGaunts x15

Biovore x2
Carnifex | TL Brainleech x2

My opponent was IG and was fully meched up, as per the following (brutal for Nids) list.

Chimera 1 | Vostroyan Command Squad | Variety pack of command squad units

Chimera 2 &3 | Vostroyan Squad | 10 guard, carapace, flamers and plasma

All Chimeras equipped with Hvy Bolters.

2 Leman Russ | Battle cannon and Hvy bolter sponsons. One of them commanded by Pask.

It was a rude awakening and I conceded by the end of turn 2. Let's just that everything that could go wrong did. He seized the initiative, his battle cannons never scattered more than 1 inch, heavy bolters were blessed by the Emperor and his entire family tree while at the same my Tervigon pooped out in turn 2, fried it's brain in each turn trying to cast Catalyst, the hive guard mostly couldn't even it the front chimeras, the one that did hit rolled a 1 on his glance, etc, etc ...

As I may have mentioned before, I never play at this point level (preferring 2k to 3.5k games) so this was a completely new experience. I'm going to do a total advice reversal here because Nids have to be played completely differently at 1000 compared to 2k and up. Major lesson, in these low point games, where competing armies have plenty of cheap options for anti-infantry and most of our heavy hitters are way over-costed, deep-striking and rending is key. Foot slogging is basically not an option as we just don't have enough bodies to distract, disrupt or otherwise cause target priority confusion by being able to apply significant scary pressure on more than one front. I have a budding idea regarding how I will defeat that tank list following my 2nd game of the day but it's not yet ideal since that game was 1200 points, a ceiling that opens up a few more options for us.

Building upon the idea of foregoing the slog in order to just slam into the opponent's lines asap, I tried a pod list.

Tyrant | Stanglethorn cannon, Whip, Sword

Hive Guard x2
Zooans x2 | Pod

Devilgaunts x14 | Pod
Devilgaunts x14 | Pod

Biovores x2
Trigon Prime

As a big departure for me, notice the lack of a Tervigon. The 2nd synapse unit would be Trigon Prime. Zooans don't count in my books as they are intended to be a suicide unit and therefore won't be on the board long enough to really cast a good bubble. My opponent, the same player, took out his eldar army.

Eldrad with 8 Banshees & Exarch in a Serpent, Scatter laser, Shuriken Cannon, all the upgrades.

6 Fire dragons and Exarch in a Similar Serpent

8 Scorpions & Exarch, infiltrating

8 Pathfinders

10 Dire Avengers with exarch

Deployment: table quarters. Mission: killpoints. I have 11 possibles to his 7. I lost the starting roll and thus hid everything behind cover. The tyrant, the hive guard and biovores lay crouched in the shadows, prepared for the oncoming torrent of fire that failed to materialise. Following the first turn's lack of shooting success from the eldar, this game went exactly as planned and exceeded expectations. The Hive tyrant shook one of the serpents and the biovores killed 6 Avengers.

In turn 2, the scorpions failed to show up, his pathfinders caused one wound on the Tyrant and the other Serpent shot everything at my biovores, causing... one wound. In my turn 2, the 2 devilgaunt pods showed up, and I targeted the top corner where his force was condensed, banking on the pods to scatter just off the vehicles. One was on target, the other mishapped off the table back into reserves. Now that the pressure was on, the firebase moved up out of cover to close the gap. Hive Guard shook one serpent, whereas the tyrant shook the other. Biovores took down another 2 Avengers, which were then taken down to just the Exarch when the gaunts pumped 42 shots into them for 14 wounds.

Turn 3, saw the scorpions show up in his corner and his vehicles leap into action to try and get their payloads into close range of juicy targets. The forward gaunt squad was eliminated by the combined efforts of the pathfinders, the dire exarch and the scorpions.

Bottom of the third was the final bell for the eldar. Every remaining pod entered the field, the zooans scattered 4 inches, bringing them closer to the tail end of the banshee's serpent, which they exploded in the shooting phase. The top most tentacle raped the Dragon's serpent causing 4 pens and thus wrecked it and they had to do an emergency disembarkation because the door was shoved against a terrain piece. The biovores and the hive guard targeted the exposed banshees and turned them to red mist. Once the blood cleared only Eldrad and the Exarch were left. The trigon shot at the dragons and killed 4.

Turn 4 was played just for fun as we both knew which way the wind was blowing. Fire dragons caused 4 wounds on the Trigon from shooting, Pathfinders whiffed, scorpions tripped and couldn't maneuver close enough for assault. The banshee exarch caused one wound to the hive guard and got munched in spite of the doom and guide combo. Eldrad fried the tyrant for one more wound but got sliced in combat... All told at the end of turn 4 kp's were 5 to 1 for nids.

So after all this what was learned?

-We can't outshoot guard at 1000points, (shocker, I know)
-1200 points is starting to be a sweet spot.
-Rending claws on deep strikers or infiltrators are our only option against guard at 1000points or less.
-A tyrant with Hive Commander is not a waste of points at 1200 contrary to popular belief, as long as you make heavy use of reserves.
-Trigon Primes are well worth the extra 40 points.

All of this being said, Casey, what types of list do you normally face in your area and what point cost do you want to focus on first?

Dark_Gear wrote: Zooans don't count in my books as they are intended to be a suicide unit and therefore won't be on the board long enough to really cast a good bubble.

what the hell you talking about.zoans are not suicdes.they are anti tank and synapse.if you just fire them once and let them die what the hell

Deadshot wrote:

Dark_Gear wrote: Zooans don't count in my books as they are intended to be a suicide unit and therefore won't be on the board long enough to really cast a good bubble.

what the hell you talking about.zoans are not suicdes.they are anti tank and synapse.if you just fire them once and let them die what the hell

Sentences and spaces, friend. Sentences and spaces.

The point of what he said was that Zoans are suicide tankbusters solely because an enemy that sees them drop in usually immediately turns their attention to them. Generally, they'll spore down, shoot at a landraider or IG tank, and whether they pop it or not, next turn the enemy's guns turn about face and create Zoanthrope mush. Against an unlucky or less mech'ed opponent, or even a less skilled one, they can survive. Usually, though, they ARE suicide gunners. They are one of our few options that can pen av14, but they are still fleshy and easily affected by instant death. Do we want them to be suicidal? Nope. Does that change anything? Not really. You CAN use them as synapse for your lines, but too often I see them wiped out by an enemy heavy support option for doing that anyways, long before they even get into range to shoot. Thus Gear is unfortunately very close with his statement.

Firstly, QFT. I also agree with Dark_Gear and Syraphym. Zoanthropes don't last, we didn't ask it to be that way, we just make the best of it.

Syraphym wrote:Sentences and spaces, friend. Sentences and spaces.

Dark_Gear wrote:As I may have mentioned before, I never play at this point level (preferring 2k to 3.5k games) so this was a completely new experience. I'm going to do a total advice reversal here because Nids have to be played completely differently at 1000 compared to 2k and up. Major lesson, in these low point games, where competing armies have plenty of cheap options for anti-infantry and most of our heavy hitters are way over-costed, deep-striking and rending is key.

Ouch, sounds like a bloody game. I agree with you completely, it's nice to know i was hitting the mark with my heavy pod/rending list. Here is the original list which strayed into 1500pts, it's not the one i'm going to use but it shows where i'm coming from and that we both reached the same conclusion. I've made 2 small alterations.

HQ:
Tyranid Prime(Scything Talons/2 Boneswords) - 90pts
Tyranid Prime(Scything Talons/2 Boneswords) - 90pts
Troops:
Genestealers x5(Rending Claws/Scything Talons)
+ (Mycetic Spore/Cluster Spines) - 130pts
Genestealers x5(Rending Claws/Scything Talons)
+ (Mycetic Spore/Cluster Spines) - 130pts
Genestealers x5(Rending Claws/Scything Talons) - 80pts
Genestealers x5(Rending Claws/Scything Talons) - 80pts
Genestealers x5(Rending Claws/Scything Talons) - 80pts
Genestealers x5(Rending Claws/Scything Talons) - 80pts
Elites:
Deathleaper - 140pts
Zoanthropes x3
+ (Mycetic Spore/Cluster Spines) - 230pts
The Doom of Malan'tai
+ (Mycetic Spore/Cluster Spines) - 140pts
Heavy Support:
Trygon Prime - 240pts
Total: 1510pts

Dark_Gear wrote:Building upon the idea of foregoing the slog in order to just slam into the opponent's lines asap, I tried a pod list.
As a big departure for me, notice the lack of a Tervigon.

Massive turn around in your second game which really backs up your point about the pods. How do you think you would have cope with a mech force though? 1000pt pod armies seem to have a lot of trouble with tanks from what i've been looking at. Small suicide rending squads might fit the bill.

Dark_Gear wrote:So after all this what was learned?
-Rending claws on deep strikers or infiltrators are our only option against guard at 1000points or less.
-A tyrant with Hive Commander is not a waste of points at 1200 contrary to popular belief, as long as you make heavy use of reserves.
-Trigon Primes are well worth the extra 40 points.
All of this being said, Casey, what types of list do you normally face in your area and what point cost do you want to focus on first?

Well as you know i completely agree with the first point.
I don't agree with the Tyrant Commander though, 1)i don't plan on using any footsloggers, and 2)Deathleaper gives you the same bonus as Hive Commander(+1 on reserves) while its on the board.
A Trigon Prime might actually be a good idea, not sure yet.
I'm going to have to deal with all comers when i take it to table. I plan on aiming for 1000pts but i'll only be building what i already own until i have a job and my BA are done.
I'll post a possible list soon.

Thank you Seraphim for your very apt explanation, especially for the following statement:

Do we want them to be suicidal? Nope. Does that change anything? Not really.

The short response

Suicidal Zooans are sad indeed but they are just too effective not to use.

The long response

Think of them as our melta-vets or Fire Dragons.

As much as I would like Zooanthropes to be able to partake in an overall support role for my nids, and in spite of their 3++ save, they are too easy to torrent down or ID to be counted upon to survive for too long. This sad fact holds particularly true when facing armies with hoods or other types of nasty psychic defense (e.g.: Eldrad). Suicide by Perils of the Warp has been so prevalent in my games that I've pulled them from my roster and simply ignore AV 14 altogether.

Believe it not, I've had more success with my Hive Guard against Land Raiders than I've ever had with Zooanthropes... Go figure!

So while it may seem counter-intuitive (if not even counter-productive) to view and use 2 Zooanthropes in pod, when facing a meched up force such as a wall of Russes, 160 points is one of the most affordable and cost-effective distractions you can bring to the field. The high level threat posed by the zooans on the turn they arrive, followed by the likehood a vehicle will be tentacle raped in the rear (should the pod actually survive a turn of shooting) means that a lot of guns will be turned away from your foot sloggers, thus buying you precious encroachment time.

I've actually dropped Zoanthropes from my list completely, i'm going to try dealing with them in combat.
Here's a wee one i've knocked together. I'm over the points limit yet again but its not a final list.

HQ:
Tyranid Prime(Devourer/2 Boneswords) - 90pts
Troops:
Tyranid Warriors x3(Devourer/Rending Claws)
+ (Mycetic Spore/Cluster Spines) - 155pts
Genestealers x5(Rending Claws/Scything Talons) - 80pts
Genestealers x5(Rending Claws/Scything Talons) - 80pts
Genestealers x5(Rending Claws/Scything Talons) - 80pts
Elites:
Deathleaper - 140pts
The Doom of Malan'tai
+ (Mycetic Spore/Cluster Spines) - 140pts
Heavy Support:
Trygon Prime - 240pts
Total: 1005pts

Food for thought?

the reason your not working the zoanthropes is because your not deploying them proerly with others.place a carnifex with h.venom cannon and talons and all upgrades but toxin sacs beside, it a trygon prime with adrenals and regen in reserve,weere ur opponent can see it,and plenty of outflanking 'stealers,big unit of 20 is unbeatable in combat,and place a venomthrpe in front of the zoany,hiding it completely and providing the 'fex with a 5+ cover

I don't plan on using them at all and if i was i wouldn't be designing my entire army around them. For what it's worth i agree with DGear and Syraphym, Zoanthropes are best suited to the role of tank hunter, dropped behind enemy lines like a melta unit. Oh and we were quite serious about the sentences and spaces thing, people aren't going to take you seriously otherwise.

I would also like to point out my distaste for your inflammatory and frankly rude comment earlier. Please address you attitude problem and address other users with more respect in future. An apology to Dark_Gear wouldn't go a miss. Thank you.

i wasnt saying design your list around anything.this is for every army.if you need your rhino to get the squad onto the objective,place a land raider next to it to draw fire.if you need you zoanies to take out land raiders then put big scary,regenerating carnifex to draw fire and use the venomthrope to keep it alive.this fits into most players list and doesn't override any plans,just imoproves them.also,trake out what ever moves fastest first,like razorwings,then,raiders and ravagers,jetbikes,hellions,infantry,if you were fighting DE

to truly master an army you must bercome one with it.thats not ment to be jedi crap.it means take the fluff tactcs of the armies you use and you use them in a game.throw gaunts forward as a meatshield so ther enemy cant kill the fexes or tyrants.

The reason i misunderstood your message was because it's so badly written. The last one wasn't much better despite you editing it. You also chose to ignore my comment about your attitude. All things considered i'd rather not continue this conversation with you, not to mention the fact we are sliding off topic.

Back on topic: i'm working on a slightly altered list.

soory i didn't see it.sorry can you please point out my rude comment.i wasn't trying to be

Deadshot wrote:what the hell you talking about.zoans are not suicdes.they are anti tank and synapse.if you just fire them once and let them die what the hell

That's both inflammatory and just plain rude.



On topic, had a look at my list and couldn't decide on any changes. Need some outsider input!

sorry.have you tried Ymgarlstealers or Mortex?

Its fine, i suggest that if you use correct grammar then you will come across better in general. It really doesn't take long to do and you could even download a spellchecker which will keep you right. You'll have a much nicer forum experience this way and so will other users you interact with.

Thank you for your suggestions.
Ymgarl Genestealers are a little expensive at this points level so i stayed away from them. I also think that the chance of them being destroyed on arrival is dangerous considering how many points i'd lose. Over a tenth of my force for the cheapest squad.
I had completely overlooked the Parasite of Mortrex until just now...
...Not a bad little unit now i see it. Sadly it would involve removing a fair chunk of the list or at least one of the other two uniques which i think suit the fluff much better. My narrative seems more restrictive at every step but i will perceiver.

I am considering Spore Mines, maybe to replace a Genestealer squad? Problem is, early game there isn't going to be anything else to shoot at so they might not do the mayhem causing job i want them for.
I'm not very happy with my troops choices at all. Are the Genestealers going to do the job? They fit the narrative so well so i don't want to remove them. I'm not really a fan of the Warriors, fluff wise anyway, but they have good stats.
I also originally planned to contain many more Mycetic Spores with Cluster Spines originally. Maybe i need to head back in the pod direction...

Thank you for suggestions about grammer.I usually adhere to it but I had 50 or so post to make before the posts became redundant.

20 or even 10 genestlers piling out of a spore can be an unbeatable close combat force,striking before most things and hitting on 3+,but remember that they can't assualt on that same turn,meaning your opponent has a full tern to blast the fragile creatures apart which I'm assuming are dropping close by,making them the most immediate threat.

May I suggest Ripper Swarms?For a mere 72pts,you can get these 2 squads of 3wound modals for much cheaper than any other troop,that can deep strike onto the objective.As they're very unasumming,they're easily overlooked by opponents in favour of big Tyrants and Trygons.Plus,your two compulsary troops are filed so you can spend more on other,better broods

Have you tought about hormagaunts? 20 of them in a pod can be a big distraction fro the opponent.
IB can be an issue, but since they "feed", just drop them closest to what you want to assault.

Ripper bases don't score, so DS'ing them onto an empty objective won't do a lot of good.
If you use them to contest a held one; they will be assaulted and killed.
If they are your only troops as you offered, you will basicly auto-loose objective based games.
If you just want to contest an empty objesctive, the deathleaper can do that while giving +1 to reserve rolls, genestealers can infiltrate onto the objective as well, and they score. Shooty based warriors, while expencive, can DS using a pod onto an objective as well and use it as a fire base. Warriors also scoring, and are better in CC than rippers.

But they also draw fire more than rippers.A good tactic would be a squad of terms and include a tervigon as troops,then use Hive Commander to outflank it onto objectives.However the rippers are good for kill points as you can get more elits and heavy support

Thanks for you input cricketofdeth! I'll definitely be using Warriors as they do justice to my Prime and justify his points. I'll see how i can fit Hormagaunts into my list as you pose a good point. I've got a list to post up just now but i'll look into it and get back to you.

No problem on the grammar suggestions. You have improved how you come across quite a bit since your first post. I would recommend spaces after commas and periods in future though. Without them the text runs together, people reading your posts will get tired of that quickly and may ignore them. Lastly, i think you should proof read your post just before you click submit, it only takes a second and you'll catch any spelling/syntax errors.
As for Rippers, i'm having trouble fitting them in but i'll keep thinking. Concerning your tactics about Termagaunts, a Tervigon and a Tyrant; I may not have been clear that i wasn't looking for foot-sloggers in this list, if so i apologise. This conversation originated on another thread and might not have brought all the information we had discussed over with me.

Here's a list i have been working on. Interestingly i haven't got the 5 Cluster Spine, Mycetic Spores i was aiming for. In fact i've only got 1!
HQ:
Tyranid Prime(Devourer/2 Boneswords) - 90pts
Troops:
Tyranid Warriors x4(Devourer/Rending Claws)
+ (Mycetic Spore/Cluster Spines) - 190pts
Genestealers x5(Rending Claws/Scything Talons) - 80pts
Genestealers x5(Rending Claws/Scything Talons) - 80pts
Elites:
Deathleaper - 140pts
Fast Attack:
Raveners x3(Rending Claws/Scything Talons) - 105pts
Spore Mine Cluster x4 - 40pts
Spore Mine Cluster x4 - 40pts
Heavy Support:
Trygon Prime - 240pts
Total: 1005pts

Any tips on modaling spores? I was thinking of converting Drop pods, swapping the harnesses for a spare carnifex head and the gun for a spare warriors gun. If you do, message me so we don't get off track.

Deadshot wrote:Any tips on modaling spores? I was thinking of converting Drop pods, swapping the harnesses for a spare carnifex head and the gun for a spare warriors gun. If you do, message me so we don't get off track.

We can slide off for a couple of posts as long as we get back on point afterwards. I've been considering a few conversions but cant decide on anything. ChapterHouse make there own Mycetic Spore, it's on there website. I'm personally not a fan but its all about personal taste.


I'm going to have to come up with something good and cheap if i want a few. I'd love to here other peoples ideas.

P.S. Your posts look much better. You really come across more positively. Comparing the original message to this one it's hard to believe it's the same person. Congrats, people will take you much more seriously now and your Dakka experience will be greatly improved!

I've never seen anyone make good use of the loose spore mines, but in 1000 pts it might work.
I'd just drop the spore mines, and scything talons from the 'stealers for more 'stealers.

@Deadshot: Yes they draw more fire, and cost way more points, but 1) they will kill more, 2) have more wounds, 3) score. (If you can keep them on the objective due to IB)
Maybe I'm just a hormagaunt fan, but I'd still rather spend the points on the gaunts, than ripper swarms.

I have heard of people taking a large unit of rippers, and attaching the prime to it and using it as a "death star". I think it would be fun, but not overly effective.

For spore pods I plan on buying some wooden eggs from hobbly lobby and using green stuff and some leftover 'nid bits to scratch built the things. Those chapter house pods just don't do it for me.

cricketofdeth wrote:I've never seen anyone make good use of the loose spore mines, but in 1000 pts it might work.
I'd just drop the spore mines, and scything talons from the 'stealers for more 'stealers.

Yeh it's not something you ever see. My plan was to drop them in and use them as distractions while my Genestealers move from their infiltrated positions into some early combat and tank killing. Your right on the Scything Talons, they can go. Thats 20points straight off, i might drop the spores too.

cricketofdeth wrote:@Deadshot: Yes they draw more fire, and cost way more points, but 1) they will kill more, 2) have more wounds, 3) score. (If you can keep them on the objective due to IB)
Maybe I'm just a hormagaunt fan, but I'd still rather spend the points on the gaunts, than ripper swarms.

Rippers fit my narrative very well but i think Hormagaunts pack more punch(in this sort of list anyway). I might not have room for either the way things are going. Hopefully i'll manage to get another Mycetic Spore Unit into the list. A Carnifex or Warrior Squad maybe, if not i'll look at Hormaguants. If i've only got a few spare points i'll maybe grab some Rippers.

cricketofdeth wrote:I have heard of people taking a large unit of rippers, and attaching the prime to it and using it as a "death star". I think it would be fun, but not overly effective.

Sounds like a waste of the buffs he can give to a Warrior Squad and he wont last long. For nearly a tenth of my points i need to try and make the most of him. I can't guarantee him instant deathing an expensive character. I could see how that might be effective if you had lots of points to spend though.

cricketofdeth wrote:For spore pods I plan on buying some wooden eggs from hobbly lobby and using green stuff and some leftover 'nid bits to scratch built the things. Those chapter house pods just don't do it for me.

Sounds like a lot of work but a great idea. There seems to be a real split with the Chapterhouse pods, i'm with you in any case, they bore me at best.

for hormagaunts toxinsacs and adrenals are gold stars.strength 4,initiative 6 attacks that reroll 1 to hit,wounding every thing,even wraithlords,on a 4+ with rerolls versus space marines and guard/tau/eladr/dark eldar

spore mines are good in CaC and SG missions if you can get them to deep strike on the objective(s).i have 8 from Battle for maccragge

Damn! Your list has been progressing at a crazy pace since you started this thread Casey! Here's what I'm seeing thus far.

The key to making Rippers with Toxin Sacs effective and fun is to deploy them with a Hive Tyrant that has Old Adversary. The look of horror you'll get to see when you inform your opponent he has to deal with 40 attacks that reroll everything is priceless. It's even funnier if you remembered to cast Paroxysm prior to the assault. Now your rippers will be hitting on 3+, while also rerolling everything. Sure the rippers won't give a cover save to whatever is running with them but compared to hormogaunts, buying the same amount of wounds as your squad of 9 rippers would cost you 270 vs.126 points. To match the same amount of attacks would cost you 200 points in hormogaunts. Therefore, I low points games, rippers can constitute a very cheap retinue. This combo scores somewhat middle of the board on the effectiveness scale but through the roof on the fluffy scale.

While we're somewhat on the topic of Hive Tyrants, I'd suggest running him instead of Deathleaper. He's a better fighter, will give the reserve bonus right from the start rather than turn 3 and his effect as an overall force multiplier will really help anything within range.

Spore mines can be a great way to corral your opponent away from certain parts of the board right from the start, or to dislodge Long Fangs from a piece of terrain. The dream scenario to maximise their potential happens when you roll dawn of war. Deploy them all along your opponent's board edge and if you have enough, you will force him to enter into a series of large blasts. Not too scary if all his infantry is meched, but very scary for hybrid or foot armies.

In spite of their cost, Ymgarls would fit really well with your theme. Contrary to deep-strikers, Ymgarls can move and assault on the turn they arrive. Therefore, assuming you're playing with enough terrain, they should always be able to get a jump on your opponent. An added benefit of this unit is their psychological effect. Seeing as how your opponent has no way of knowing where they'll show up, there is a very strong chance that he will stay very far away from area terrain. Essentially, you're corralling you're opponent once again.

In my eyes, Warriors always fit the fluff. They are a perfect adaptation to the threat of ever-present Marines. Always give them toxin sacs and whips if you give them swords. Adrenal glands aren't worth it if you have whips as your opponent is already striking at I1, and you'll be wounding on 4+ all the time regardless. Yes it's expensive but it's never let me down yet. Rerolling wounds could be worthwhile at times but only do so if you have the points to spare. I've seen 2 warriors kill 8 marines per turn on the charge on more than one occasion. What they do orks or guard is just as horrible. It would take 32 charging hormogaunts (or 320points) to achieve the same results. The advantage the hormogaunts would have is that you're getting 28 more wounds but on the other hand they can't shoot anything on the way in unlike your warriors.

Pods definitely sound like a great way to bridge the distance but as has been mentioned before, seeing as how whoever comes in won't be able to charge, I'd put some type of shootie unit in them rather than stabbie ones so that you can dump a large volume of shots into nearby forces as soon as you land. 20 Devilgaunts fill the bill nicely here. The purpose of using devilgaunts for this purpose is that a unit of that size so close to the enemy will force him to react, thus buying time for your other CC units to run or creep closer. The gaunts will be dead in 2 turns, but in the meantime they will have likely whittle 2 units down to manageable levels. Also, assuming you're using a model that has the same rough size as a marine drop pod for your spore, you basically have a 16 inch pie plate of tentacles with which to threaten your enemy (4 inch diameter for the pod and 6 inch range all around for the tentacles). Even dreadnoughts won't like you.

I agree that the CH pod is a bit of mixed bag design-wise. The size is spot on but the surface just looks a little too detailed for my taste. That being said, I have a lot of respect for the amount of work that went into sculpting that model. He probably dreamt of sculpting for three days once he finished that piece.

Parasite of Mortrex is a very fun and fluffy unit but its points I'd just buy 3 shrikes. Doing so would open up a great "disruption" option in the form of Gargoyles, which you would need to provide a cover save for your Shrikes. I would stay away from selecting these flying units until you get to at least 1500 point however because to make the most of this style of play you want to field at least 20 gargoyles otherwise they die too fast to have a chance to do anything. At 2000+ point games you should run full squads of 30. Back to your list current 1k list...

Putting all of the above together with your latest list I'd suggest something like this:

HQ:
Hive Tyrant(Sword/Whip, Hive Commander, Stranglethorn )
Elites:
Ymgarls x5
Troops:
Genestealers x6(Rending Claws/Scything Talons) in Pod w/ Cluster Spines
Genestealers x6(Rending Claws/Scything Talons) in Pod w/ Cluster Spines
Fast Attack:
Raveners x3(Rending Claws/Devourer) - 120pts or Devilgaunts x12 (for much more shots and 3 more wounds)
Heavy Support:
Trygon Prime - 240pts
Total: 1000pts on the button

Now you have:
-2 slightly stronger genestealer squads,
-a squad of Ymgarls so you can assault as soon as they show up
-a guaranteed reserve roll bonus
-a small shootie bubble wrap for your HQ

That's all for now.

Dark_Gear wrote:Damn! Your list has been progressing at a crazy pace since you started this thread Casey! Here's what I'm seeing thus far.

It did that, i took a short break from Dakka the past few days though, converted and started painting a chaplain. He's looking good if i do say so myself. Hopefully i can do the conversion justice with a brush.

Dark_Gear wrote:The key to making Rippers with Toxin Sacs effective and fun is to deploy them with a Hive Tyrant that has Old Adversary. ... While we're somewhat on the topic of Hive Tyrants, I'd suggest running him instead of Deathleaper.

As awesomely fluffy and fun as the former sounds, i can't bring myself to use any foot sloggers. It's frustrating i know but i get very determined to keep with my original brief, or a very early one anyway. I guess the problem could be solved by giving them all wings but thats far to many points and very expensive for me to buy.
The latter option of dropping Deathleaper isn't going to happen... I have, to say the least, become a little obsessed with converting him as the figure head for my army. Any ideas on this welcome beeteedubs! Deathleaper fluff exudes awesome and perfectly encapsulates what i'm trying to achieve with this army. In related news, as is my penchant for DIY armies and narrative i will not be calling him Deathleaper. Haha, i'm a strange one indeed.

Dark_Gear wrote:Spore mines can be a great way to corral your opponent away from certain parts of the board right from the start, or to dislodge Long Fangs from a piece of terrain.

Now that, that is very interesting. Sounds like a great way to use these little blighters, far more refined than my plan to simply cause havoc and disarray. The only problem i see with them is there staying power. Usually them being separate units makes them unwise targets as each one takes up a whole units shooting phase. Without anything else on the board to shoot though they become slightly better targets. Thinking on my feet, a good way to combat this would be to take them in as a high a number as possible and place them close enough to infantry that shooting them down will cause them to explode on your own men. Thats 18 Mines or 12 and 3 Raverners.

Dark_Gear wrote:In spite of their cost, Ymgarls would fit really well with your theme. Essentially, you're corralling you're opponent once again.

A bit more research and you had convinced me. I'm now going to drop all the Genestealers and take one token squad Ymgarls. They compliment Deathleaper very well not to mention they kick ass. I may try and model/paint them to show an affinity with it. I'll probably take 5 or 10 of these guys, i don't yet have models to represent them but more on that later.

Dark_Gear wrote:In my eyes, Warriors always fit the fluff. Always give them toxin sacs and whips if you give them swords.

Your right these are the poster boys that every gaunt looks up to and they are pretty much omnipresent. Warriors are going to have a valuable place in this force for sure and the Prime(s) is/are going to guarantee they do their jobs well. I'm going to try and fit your kit out into the list, i'd be foolish not to take your advice!

Dark_Gear wrote:Pods definitely sound like a great way to bridge the distance ... 20 Devilgaunts fill the bill nicely here ... you basically have a 16 inch pie plate of tentacles with which to threaten your enemy

I'll fit in as many Pods as i can for sure. Devilgaunts are sounding extremely appealing and will soak up any leftover points. As for the 'Pie Plate of Death(Ppod for short, haha! ),' my determination to take Cluster Spines widens this to 40inches! I'm having second thoughts on this though, i chose the Cspines because i thought the Pod could fire both this and the tentacles simultaneously, i'm starting to suspect this isn't the case... Any ideas?
...Just checked online: Looks like it can fire two per turn because it's a monstrous creature. Still wondering how useful it is though...

Dark_Gear wrote:I agree that the CH pod is a bit of mixed bag design-wise. That being said, I have a lot of respect for the amount of work that went into sculpting that model.

I agree completely, it's a really great piece of sculpting, a lot of high quality workmanship went into that! Shame it's not to my aesthetic tastes. I'm considering something quite different, hard exterior that looks like it could survive impact, combined with gooey, shock absorbing, womb like insides and some sort of opening. Sounds quite graphic, haha, it wasn't supposed to!
A quick google search came up with loads of options, here is one close to my idea.

Dark_Gear wrote:Parasite of Mortrex is a very fun and fluffy unit but its points I'd just buy 3 shrikes.

The way the list is going i probably won't manage either! If i do have room though i may ignore your better judgement for two reasons. A)I have the components to convert my own PoM and no money to buy more Warriors, and B)PoM sounds like a real laugh.

Taking everything into account i'll bash together a list:
HQ:
Tyranid Prime(Devourer/2 Boneswords) - 90pts
Tyranid Prime(Devourer/2 Boneswords) - 90pts
Elites:
Deathleaper - 140pts
Ymgarls x5 - 115pts
Zoanthropes x2
+ (Mycetic Spore/Cluster Spines) - 170pts
Troops:
Tyranid Warriors x3(Devourers/Lash-Whips and Boneswords/Toxin Sacs)
+ (Mycetic Spore/Cluster Spines) - 200pts
Tyranid Warriors x3(Devourers/Lash-Whips and Boneswords/Toxin Sacs)
+ (Mycetic Spore/Cluster Spines) - 200pts
Total: 1005pts
Its changed a lot but thats almost entirely because of the 1000pts limit.

The good thing about this list is i only have to buy a couple of models to finish it off:
Have | Don't Have
Primes x2 (Use Raveners)
Deathleaper (Use Deathleaper)
Ymgarls x5
Zoanthropes x2 (Use Zoanthropes)
Warriors x6 (Use Warriors)
After that i'll just need a couple of bits.

Sooooo, thoughts?

I'll post an analysis and comments on the list once I get home so for now I'll just comment on 2 things.

Love the description of the pod as that's exactly what I'm thinking of as well. Hard on the outside, fleshy on the inside to soak up the impact of the landing. Think, Horseshoe Crab.

As per the following super quick sketches to replace my (sadly) removed image of a horseshoe crab.





As for the amount of Genestealers you need, with the last game I played I realised all I need Genestealer-wise is already assembled. if you're open to a bitz exchange, pm me and can see how we can get some of 21 unassembled Stealers your way.

Sadly your image wasn't related to the hobby so the mods removed it(Best to just link unrelated images from another web page). Did a quick google to get a good look at them and i think we have very similar ideas here, it'll be fun to see what we come up with. I'm going to do some research into seeds and spores in nature, see if i come across any hidden gems.

As for the Genestealers, can you really see no use for them? If you are planning on getting them shifted i'd certainly be interested in a swap. Anything in particular you need, i have quite a few chitinous goodies?

Yup honestly, of all the times I've deployed Genestealers, I can't recall a single instance where, while they did do something during the fight, I couldn't feeling that alternative unit x, y or z might have done a better job. When I originally my (as yet not fully assembled) stash of 40 Genestealers and 4 Broodlords (the pretty pewter ones) it was 4th ed and they were still good. At most, I will run a full squad of Ymgarls or 2 squads of 6 or 8 normal stealers as they just do not impress me at all.

To give you an idea, one of my "project mats" has looked like this last January, yes... January.



What I'm mostly looking for at this point would be some Warriors or Raveners as I figure I can base a kit-bash for venomthropes on them since I can't find any pewter models and I do not want Finecost models. Second option would be gaunts. I need about another 12 in order to get 60 devilgaunts and 50 fleshborer gaunts, which is the magic number when running only one Tervigon. Other than that I'm good.