Interrorgator chaplains have to be at the top of my list

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
ghazghull could take Abby

On a Waaagh he could (2++), but I'm not sure outside of that he would be able to do it.

No love for Librarians? Fine. They have my vote. Psychic badassery is always awesome.

Sternguard and Vanguard veterans. The old metals were great. Both are awesome in the fluff too.

I like the Predator Annihilator. Not really a fan of any other Space Marine tank.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
No love for Librarians? Fine. They have my vote. Psychic badassery is always awesome.

Sternguard and Vanguard veterans. The old metals were great. Both are awesome in the fluff too.

I like the Predator Annihilator. Not really a fan of any other Space Marine tank.

Lots of love for Libbys. Especially BA Epistolarys (even though they cost 50 pts too much). Regular libbys go well in a pod with 9 combi melta sternguard and divination. So far that combo has claimed a shadowsword, a stompa and two full russ squadrons.

My fvourite SM character must be Brother Corbulo.
His 2+ FnP has won me more games than I would admit.

As a squad it's hard to tell. Sternguard are always tough, I like Vanguard Vets but to be honest they suck at table.
Scouts are simple and reliable, but don't fit my BA army that well...
Let's go with Terminators. A medicore balance between badassness and usefulness.

No discussion in vehicle department for me. Baal Predators.

Abaddon is propably the best fighter in the game. Only way to beat him is propably to cheat his Eternal Warrior rule ("removed from play" isn't equal to "Instant Death").
Swarmlord might have the best chance, or Asurmen. High Initiative AP2 weapon that can go around EW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
any daemon Prince or greater daemon would squash Mephiston

Wouldn't be so sure.

im still in search now (on a mission) to discover an abaddon match and from other debates here is another lost of characters......let me know you all reckon

Maugan Ra

Asdrubael Vect

Eldrad Ulthran

Logan Grimnarmain

Kayvaan Shrike

Swarmlord

The Silent King

so far this is it im still looking

Swarmlord is the only valid option here I think.
Logan has a good weapon, bunch of attacks and rules that help in CC, but only three wounds and 4+ Inv.
Rest of here have simply no chance.
Maugan Ra, for example has only four attacks with AP3 weapon, making it difficult for him to deal with 2+ in CC.

It looks like you all may be correct. Abbaddon seems to be pretty much a solo mega force on his own and don't look there is anyone on imperium status to be able to take him on. It proves that chaos as a single poses more power than any standard human. Mind you if sanguinious was still alive could he have a chance against him. Obviously Horus took him out but is abbaddon stronger than now after 10000 years?

I'm still looking you never know what may pop up.

So far it's true swarm lord and ghaz seem to be only runners up one on one

Don't forget Skarbrand. I've actually never seen him used by my group's Daemons player but he has a pretty insane stat line, and AP2 at Initiative to boot.

Skarbrand being the former champion of Khorne but was too out of control became banished? Didn't this nutcase even at some point attempt to assault the blood god also? He's out of his mind.

 kerikhaos wrote:
Skarbrand being the former champion of Khorne but was too out of control became banished? Didn't this nutcase even at some point attempt to assault the blood god also? He's out of his mind.

Tzeentch did some tricks and pissed him off so much he even decided to attack Khorne, who threw him and he flew for three days and nights and crash landed and lost his wings as a result. And as a result of Khornes beatdown he lost his mind and became a pure embodiment of rage.


Though my favorite SM char is Pedro Kantor, good fluff, good rules, and he's a pretty decent guy despite all the crap he went through.

Favorite Unit: Sternguard, elite units that aren't just 'slightly better' troops. They represent everything an elite unit should be able to accomplish, and I wish my Chosen had something akin to them, even if they just got two free rolls on the CoC chart.

Favourite unit sternguard there just cool

Favourite character fluff wise Lysander. But in game chapter master with teeth of terra eats through units !!

Favourite vehicle- gotta love a vindicator especially of your blood angles :p or a contemptor there ace too

thanks guys.....keep them opinions rolling in as its helping me with ideas to add to my current army....

seems like sterguards are coming in quite a bit as favs. Whats the difference between the sterguard and vanguard then?

BaalSNAFU wrote:
@ Martel

If youre using them by their lonesome, you're doing it wrong. They hit really hard, but not hard enough to sweep a unit in a single round of combat. I use them to back up either my main assault squad with chaplain/priest/libby, or my death co. They are that extra oomph to make sure the victim unit goes bye bye before they get to swing back. TBH it could be because my opponent often gets target flare. By the time theyve dealt with the drop pod fragnaught in their backfield, the two scouting Baal preds and the libby dread also charging them its too late for much more than overwatch.

Are they heinously overcosted? Yes. Its quite often worth it though because of their unique ability to make damn sure my assaulters (remaining assaulters) come out on top. Use them to assist mainstay CC units and use synergy to your advantage and they can work wonders.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kerikhaos wrote:
Yeah I forgot about Astorath. So this guys is what exactly and is he as powerful as mephiston or is this guy strong in other departments? Non the less can he step up to abaddon or typhus?

My take with establishing in my previous post that both abaddon and typhus seem to be super characters is that it sounds to me that there are no other matchable playable characters who can stand up to them head to head. I may be wrong as I said because I don't know the full extend of what characters exist in the Warhammer world. Not because my statement was executed as fact

Not even close unfortunately. His model and fluff suggest otherwise though.

Abbadon > Mephiston> Typhus> Astorath

They create deficiencies in your list that you can't make up with a list like the BA. I'm not "doing it wrong", they just suck.

Sternguard are the shooty vets (but also good ad cc) and they can be your problem solvers for a weak point in a list. I.e give them combi meltas for vs tanks, their special ammo also makes them very good in lots of situations

Vanguard are subpar because they are super expensive when kitted up and in 6th which is very shooty orientated I wouldn't expect them to last long.

If you want a good sm assault unit use normal assault marines or honour guard. Or for BA death company and assult marines

My favourite Space Marines are the Wolf Guard. They are so extremely versatile, they can do pretty much everything.
They can have bikes, jump packs, terminator armour, a huge diversity in weapons and they can even lead other squads.

Thanks for the breakdown. I think I get the difference but is one better than the other because they are harder to kill or they are more effective in battle? Also stern vs van in terms of points? What's the diff there?

Apparently this super eldar vect seems to be a hard ass plus I think I heard another super eldar actually bested abbaddon at some point in the past? Not sure though

The problem with vanguard in 6th cc units either need to wipe out what they charge or have the durability to survive the counter attack, vanguard can't do either

Sternguard are more expensive but I believe are the more effective unit by far IMO

brother marcus wrote:
The problem with vanguard in 6th cc units either need to wipe out what they charge or have the durability to survive the counter attack, Non-BA vanguard can't do either

Sternguard are more expensive but I believe are the more effective unit by far IMO

Fixed.

Seriously, you'd be surprised what 5+ FNP, Furious charge or the ability to assault out of deepstrike can do.

I don't know the rules for BA Unfortunatly. And yea that's sounds way better than vanilla vanguard, but that's blood angles job :p

Ok hang on a sec I've just seen there is an honor guard as well. So that makes 3x variations - sternguard, vanguard and honor guard. I'm confused now

 kerikhaos wrote:
Ok hang on a sec I've just seen there is an honor guard as well. So that makes 3x variations - sternguard, vanguard and honor guard. I'm confused now

Blood Angels also have the Sanguinary Guard, veteran veterans.

Yeah I have those already. Aren't they best of the elites?

To just clarify on the various adjective-guard

Honour Guard: Generally bodyguards for a HQ character, cane take jump pack and have a Sanguinary Novitiate (basically a priest with slightly worse stats and no IC rule) included in the base cost, for a nice 6" FNP/FC bubble. The best loadout is probably giving the 4x melta or plasma and JP and using them as mobile antitank or anti-MC/TEQ/MEQ units respectively. You can kit them for melee but Vanguard, Sanguinary Guard and probably basic assault marines do this better.

Sanguinary Guard: come with JP stock, 2+ save and a master-crafted power weapon. Not much variety, they are just pure CC units, but unfortunately are too expensive and fragile to reliably use. Fluff (and model) wise they are the best of the Veterans, but in game are generally outclassed.

Vanguard Veterans: CC vets. Can assault out of DS if using Jump Packs, and can load up on special melee weapons. Some would say they are to expensive, but with just Jump Packs and maybe a power weapon or two they can make a nice surprise unit.

Sternguard: Unarguably the best vets, very shooty with ammo types for dealing with all targets. Can also take cheap combi-weapons and a drop pod for a T1 strike.

I got another question. What's the diff between these dreadnoughts -

Standard dreadnought

Furioso dreadnought

Venerable dreadnought

Death company dreadnought

Contemptor dreadnought ( are these bigger than the others?)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Paradigm wrote:
To just clarify on the various adjective-guard

Honour Guard: Generally bodyguards for a HQ character, cane take jump pack and have a Sanguinary Novitiate (basically a priest with slightly worse stats and no IC rule) included in the base cost, for a nice 6" FNP/FC bubble. The best loadout is probably giving the 4x melta or plasma and JP and using them as mobile antitank or anti-MC/TEQ/MEQ units respectively. You can kit them for melee but Vanguard, Sanguinary Guard and probably basic assault marines do this better.

Sanguinary Guard: come with JP stock, 2+ save and a master-crafted power weapon. Not much variety, they are just pure CC units, but unfortunately are too expensive and fragile to reliably use. Fluff (and model) wise they are the best of the Veterans, but in game are generally outclassed.

Vanguard Veterans: CC vets. Can assault out of DS if using Jump Packs, and can load up on special melee weapons. Some would say they are to expensive, but with just Jump Packs and maybe a power weapon or two they can make a nice surprise unit.

Sternguard: Unarguably the best vets, very shooty with ammo types for dealing with all targets. Can also take cheap combi-weapons and a drop pod for a T1 strike.

Thanks pal for the super details- makes perfect sense

 Paradigm wrote:
Favourite infantry unit: Either tactical squad or Sternguard vets. Both are versatile and durable, can be kitted for almost any role, and are very fun to build and paint.

Favourite vehicle: Probably the drop pod, as it gives you unmatched freedom in deployment and counter-deployment.

Favourite character: Captain with Teeth of Terra, Primarch's Wrath and Armour Indomitus. Fighty, shooty and hugely expensive!

I like this guy!

I like Tacticals as well, they're just so cool. Even if they are just there to die, I still like them. Sometimes some cool stuff happens, like for example a few games ago I was facing SW and Bjorn. Bjorn managed to flip over my Pred and was about to eat through the nearby Tac Squads when I got lucky on my next turn and was just barely able to explode him with my Combi-Melta Sarge... That guy earned a purity seal!

I also really like the Captains and Chapter Masters, I also run a Cap similar to the one above. Teeth of Terra, a Powerfist, and Termie Armour. People always laugh at the termie armour, but you know what? No one has ever been able to shoot him down after a DS yet, and he just annihilates squads like nobodies business. D3 + 1 attacks, +1 on the charge, that's potentially 8 attacks! I run my Chapter Master a little different, I give him Arti-Armour, the Shield Eternal and a Power Axe and use him to swat down other ICs.

I also really like the Stalker, AV12 and a 4 shot autocannon, with skyfire is really hard to beat for 65 points. I'm also kind of digging the Hunter too, consider this: It never misses, every turn there is a chance to get a big fat rear armour hit, plus the opportunity to stack up more Savant Locks. I'm thinking forcing a Flyer into Ongoing is as good as shooting it down, kind of a waste on FMCs though as they can remove the counters simply by entering close combat. Kind of highly specialized though, can't think of any other use for the Hunter, but the Stalker on the other hand... he can eat Xenos like crazy thanks to ap4!

To be honest though, I haven't seen a Space Marine I didn't like, maybe back in the day some of those older ones looked pretty shoddy but these days, pow! Them SM look damn good.

Characters - Arjac Rockfist and Darnath Lysander, primarily because they're the same guy, more or less. Arjac is written as a personal champion to Grimnar so that ups his badass rank considerably. Where as Lysander is the Captain of the first company, which automatically makes him an ass kicker of epic proportions.

In game reasons: They're both powerhouses of beatstick nastiness. Alone against most anything they'll stomp the competition and I love the models too.

Squads - Legion of the Damned and Vanguard Veterans. I love the ideas behind both squads, moreso the Veterans because of the whole "we tried jump packs, we like them A LOT" aspect they bring with the fluff. Legion of the Damned, seriously? You don't know why?

In game: Both are expensive and see little action in todays games but I have to say I love it when they're fielded. Awesome models and it's great to see LotD show up unannounced and burn a squad to ash.

Vehicle - Blood Angels Rhino or the Contemptor. Supercharged transport with NOS? Yeah, that sells it. Giant dreadnought that doesn't look like a box? Yeah, that sells that too.

In game: Nothing is better than stupidly fast transports. I've only ever seen two fights with a Contemptor and it earned back twice it's points; once in melee and the other shooting down fliers.

 kerikhaos wrote:
I got another question. What's the diff between these dreadnoughts -

Standard dreadnought

Obviously, the basic version. Comes standard with a DCCW and a gun, but can swap out the CCW for an autocannon or ML for double-shootyness. Dual autocannons is probably the best option.

Furioso dreadnought

BA-specific, generally used for up-close work. Can get a Rending template Frag Cannon or go with 2 blood talons, which get another attack for every wound they cause. They are brilliant horde-slicers They can also take Librarian Upgrades, giving them a Force Weapon and access to powers.

Venerable dreadnought

Upgrade to the standard Dread, gets a re-roll on damage results caused to it, and I think in the SM codex they have BS5 as well.

Death company dreadnought

Like the Furioso, these guys are mental in CC, can chop through most stuff pretty well.

Contemptor dreadnought ( are these bigger than the others?)

These are Heresy-Era Dreads, they have higher armour than standard Dreads, an invuln as default I think, and can take dual weapons of any kind. There is also the Contemptor Mortis, which is a Contemptor with 2 Assault Cannons and a CML and get skyfire.

Characters- I'd have to agree that Arjac is pretty awesome. I also fancy the Inquisitor Coteaz model. Not sure how he is game-wise, but the guy looks like a whole new level of badass. The eagle definitely helps.

Squads- Space Marine game definitely sold me on how cool jump packs are fluff wise, so I'm a fan of assualt squads or vanguard vets. Haven't used them before sadly as I focus more on the hobby aspect and haven't gotten around to many real matches, so I don't know how they hold up.

Vehicles- Walkin BAWKSES are pretty sweet. Really any dreadnought is grand, but I gotta put in my vote for the BA Librarian dred.

Hell yes Sternguard are a lot better.

 Paradigm wrote:

 kerikhaos wrote:
I got another question. What's the diff between these dreadnoughts -

Standard dreadnought

Obviously, the basic version. Comes standard with a DCCW and a gun, but can swap out the CCW for an autocannon or ML for double-shootyness. Dual autocannons is probably the best option.

Furioso dreadnought

BA-specific, generally used for up-close work. Can get a Rending template Frag Cannon or go with 2 blood talons, which get another attack for every wound they cause. They are brilliant horde-slicers They can also take Librarian Upgrades, giving them a Force Weapon and access to powers.

Venerable dreadnought

Upgrade to the standard Dread, gets a re-roll on damage results caused to it, and I think in the SM codex they have BS5 as well.

Death company dreadnought

Like the Furioso, these guys are mental in CC, can chop through most stuff pretty well.

Contemptor dreadnought ( are these bigger than the others?)

These are Heresy-Era Dreads, they have higher armour than standard Dreads, an invuln as default I think, and can take dual weapons of any kind. There is also the Contemptor Mortis, which is a Contemptor with 2 Assault Cannons and a CML and get skyfire.

Nice one - thanks for breaking that down for me......another question. Can pre-heracy dreads still be used with more recent army listings? and are these things so much bigger than the standard box dreads? points difference etc

 kerikhaos wrote:
It looks like you all may be correct. Abbaddon seems to be pretty much a solo mega force on his own and don't look there is anyone on imperium status to be able to take him on. It proves that chaos as a single poses more power than any standard human. Mind you if sanguinious was still alive could he have a chance against him. Obviously Horus took him out but is abbaddon stronger than now after 10000 years?

I'm still looking you never know what may pop up.

So far it's true swarm lord and ghaz seem to be only runners up one on one

. Even after 10000years abbadon is still not a primarch and honestly coud not stand to a primarch one on one. No way would would he "have a chance" he would just crush him. And horus killed sangineous after he just fought an exhalted greater demon....he wasn't at the top of his game.

 kerikhaos wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

 kerikhaos wrote:
I got another question. What's the diff between these dreadnoughts -

Standard dreadnought

Obviously, the basic version. Comes standard with a DCCW and a gun, but can swap out the CCW for an autocannon or ML for double-shootyness. Dual autocannons is probably the best option.

Furioso dreadnought

BA-specific, generally used for up-close work. Can get a Rending template Frag Cannon or go with 2 blood talons, which get another attack for every wound they cause. They are brilliant horde-slicers They can also take Librarian Upgrades, giving them a Force Weapon and access to powers.

Venerable dreadnought

Upgrade to the standard Dread, gets a re-roll on damage results caused to it, and I think in the SM codex they have BS5 as well.

Death company dreadnought

Like the Furioso, these guys are mental in CC, can chop through most stuff pretty well.

Contemptor dreadnought ( are these bigger than the others?)

These are Heresy-Era Dreads, they have higher armour than standard Dreads, an invuln as default I think, and can take dual weapons of any kind. There is also the Contemptor Mortis, which is a Contemptor with 2 Assault Cannons and a CML and get skyfire.

Nice one - thanks for breaking that down for me......another question. Can pre-heracy dreads still be used with more recent army listings? and are these things so much bigger than the standard box dreads? points difference etc

Yes you can use them in a normal army and there pretty damn good I love them especially with the kheres assult cannon (6 s6 ap4 rending shots!!)

Excellent as im thinking to get one of these too at soe point. Are they better than standard dreads? ir harder to kill etc? Plus are they more points on the table than standard dreads?

I don't know the exact stats for Contemptors, but I think they are AV13 (so harder to kill), have a default invuln (5+, I think), and can dual-wield any weapons. They are more points, but I think noticeably tougher than standard dreads.

 Paradigm wrote:
To just clarify on the various adjective-guard

Honour Guard: Generally bodyguards for a HQ character, cane take jump pack and have a Sanguinary Novitiate (basically a priest with slightly worse stats and no IC rule) included in the base cost, for a nice 6" FNP/FC bubble. The best loadout is probably giving the 4x melta or plasma and JP and using them as mobile antitank or anti-MC/TEQ/MEQ units respectively. You can kit them for melee but Vanguard, Sanguinary Guard and probably basic assault marines do this better.

Is this from another codex? I'm just wondering because my Honor Guard (C:SM) can only take power weapons and relic blades, no access to different guns. This is probably from the BA codex?

I really like my Honor Guard to be honest. A 10 man squad of HG with an HQ in a Land Raider is gonna wreck a whole lotta peoples days...

darkcloak wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
To just clarify on the various adjective-guard

Honour Guard: Generally bodyguards for a HQ character, cane take jump pack and have a Sanguinary Novitiate (basically a priest with slightly worse stats and no IC rule) included in the base cost, for a nice 6" FNP/FC bubble. The best loadout is probably giving the 4x melta or plasma and JP and using them as mobile antitank or anti-MC/TEQ/MEQ units respectively. You can kit them for melee but Vanguard, Sanguinary Guard and probably basic assault marines do this better.

Is this from another codex? I'm just wondering because my Honor Guard (C:SM) can only take power weapons and relic blades, no access to different guns. This is probably from the BA codex?

I really like my Honor Guard to be honest. A 10 man squad of HG with an HQ in a Land Raider is gonna wreck a whole lotta peoples days...

Yeah, in the BA codex Honour Guard are just like C:SM Command Squads, the only difference being they can take jump packs and not bikes.

Sanguinary Guard are closer to C:SM Honour guard, with 2+ saves and power weapons and the option for a Chapter Banner of Bonus Attacks. Hopefully, they'll get a similar points drop in the new codex.

 Paradigm wrote:
I don't know the exact stats for Contemptors, but I think they are AV13 (so harder to kill), have a default invuln (5+, I think), and can dual-wield any weapons. They are more points, but I think noticeably tougher than standard dreads.

They are indeed av13 but the 5+ only works against shooting its a 6+ against cc. They are also bs5
There down side is they are quite expensive one with a kheres assult cannon is 190 points which is a lot BUT they are so cool !! :p

Sounds just what I'm missing in my army. I'm still looking on the net for worthy abbaddon opponents and will post back once I've found some.

Favorite Character: a tie between A Biker Captain with a really big sword (relic or teeth) and my dual mace Interrogator chaplain, ready to strike down the heretic!

Favorite unit: Tie between Black Knights, Deathwing Knights and the Grav Centurion squad.

Favorite Vehicle: I don't have it, but the sicaran is really snazzy!

centurion squads are pretty cool. Been hearing bad things about them but I quite like their look. Souped up walking tanks / devastators - equals nice

going back to my rambling about who can take on abaddon.....

well how about the emperors champion - Sigismund?

isn't he lost in warp for some reason?

Ah, I think you're confusing two characters there. Sigsimund was an Imperial Fist Captain in the heresy, and I believe the first leader of the Black Templars. He was a badass, but unfortunately does not exist in the game

However, the Emperor's Champion in game terms is just the BT's best swordsman, and unfortunately, Abbadon is out of his league. His one trick is causing Instant Death, but Abbadon's Eternal Warrior ignores this.

If Sigismund still lived, he could perhaps match Abaddon. Both were First Captains of their respective Legions.

[bad logic/] dorn was the second best primarch, therefore Sigismund was the second best 1st captain. [/bad logic]
terminators.
brilliant models.
awesome fluff.
can servive (fluff-wise) a titan's gun. beat that. terminators are awesome.

 the shrouded lord wrote:

can servive (fluff-wise) a titan's gun. beat that. terminators are awesome.

inb4 melissia

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
If Sigismund still lived, he could perhaps match Abaddon. Both were First Captains of their respective Legions.

And Abbadon might be the potential 'son' of Horus himself.

That logic doesn't really stand honestly, because that just assumes they are equally skilled because they are first captains.

So he no longer exists in the game because he's dead or lost in warp?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok I give up. It seems abaddon with all 4 god blessings can't be beaten one on one with anyone character from the imperium. Unfortunately anyone who can get a chance wouldn't be human and the only chance that the humans would have would be bolt him him to death with like a load of distance shooters non stop or blasts from a something like a land raider. Seems chaos has a character with more or less the same strengths of what a pre herecy prim arch would have.

So there you have it one to one forget it with abaddon it's not going to happen

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
If Sigismund still lived, he could perhaps match Abaddon. Both were First Captains of their respective Legions.

And Abbadon might be the potential 'son' of Horus himself.

That logic doesn't really stand honestly, because that just assumes they are equally skilled because they are first captains.

I did not state that they were equal.

I suggested that they might have been.

There is a difference.

I know that this might be a bit of a stretch, but for favorite character from MEQ lists, I like Justicar Thrawn from CHAPTER 666: Grey Knights. There is no more annoying dude than a guy who refuses to die. Even if removed as a casualty to put a counter on the board where he fell.. The start of your turn and every following turn, roll a d6. If the result is 4+, put Thrawn back on the table within 1 " of counter.

For favorite SM squad, I like good 'ole Devastator squads. They have the heavy guns able to deal with every and any threat.

For favorite SM vehicle, nothing is cooler than a Land Raider.

SYKOJAK wrote:
I know that this might be a bit of a stretch, but for favorite character from MEQ lists, I like Justicar Thrawn from CHAPTER 666: Grey Knights. There is no more annoying dude than a guy who refuses to die. Even if removed as a casualty to put a counter on the board where he fell.. The start of your turn and every following turn, roll a d6. If the result is 4+, put Thrawn back on the table within 1 " of counter.

For favorite SM squad, I like good 'ole Devastator squads. They have the heavy guns able to deal with every and any threat.

For favorite SM vehicle, nothing is cooler than a Land Raider.

So in other words he could face abaddon and have a chance since if he got dropped he could resurrect in the next turn and continue bashing him? Or am I reaching here?

Good to know your fav list

 kerikhaos wrote:

SYKOJAK wrote:
I know that this might be a bit of a stretch, but for favorite character from MEQ lists, I like Justicar Thrawn from CHAPTER 666: Grey Knights. There is no more annoying dude than a guy who refuses to die. Even if removed as a casualty to put a counter on the board where he fell.. The start of your turn and every following turn, roll a d6. If the result is 4+, put Thrawn back on the table within 1 " of counter.

For favorite SM squad, I like good 'ole Devastator squads. They have the heavy guns able to deal with every and any threat.

For favorite SM vehicle, nothing is cooler than a Land Raider.

So in other words he could face abaddon and have a chance since if he got dropped he could resurrect in the next turn and continue bashing him? Or am I reaching here?

Good to know your fav list

Yes, that is true. Well, at least if you don't count it as Abaddon winning the first time Thawn dies... Or if Thawn runs out of turns which is likely.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/medium/tyberosp1.jpg

Favorite Character has got to be Tyboros the Red Wake... All be it that any good close combat character with an AP2 weapon will own him you can't help but admire a model with two lighting claws and two chainfists.

Personal favorite unit has got to be like others. Sternguard. The guys just do everything. Costly, but they have a gun that is anti-everything almost. Also taking combis can make them eve more threatening. Plasma, melta, flamer. All of them are good picks. You don't want them in CC, but they don't go down without a fight with each one having 2 attacks each.

Transport: Drop Pod. Honestly I think it is partially because it has glorious synergy with Sternguard. This thing is an alpha striker's dream. All or nothing, a massive bravado. Smashing down from the sky like rain droplets of steel, they unload their contents and let them tear apart the foe where they least expect it (and its fun as hell to watch enemies clump together in fear of your drop pods)

Character: I really like Vulkan for his rules and him being my favorite chapter but I'll have to say Pedro Kantor just edges him out. He's just all around fun and he along with BT are the reason why Imperial Fists are my third favorite loyalist chapter. If he existed, I'd say Tu'Schan.

Honestly your best answer is probably just to leave him alone for the most part. Abaddon is not cheap. The guy costs more than a land raider. The only ranged weapon he has is a twin-linked bolter gun. He can deepstrike admittedly. Anyways, the guy is almost a pure beatstick. The only synergy he has with the army is a 12" radius circle around him that gives preferred enemy SM (which admittedly can be rather helpful against somebody like you as SM means SM, BA, DA, GK, SW). Bar that, he wants to be in close combat. He is tanky with T5, he has a super killy sword and a painful talon. He can shred apart most enemies with either. With the current state of the game, the only real enemies in 40k (discounting any Forgeworld units I can't remember, Apoc, and 30k) that will consistently give him a run for his money or best him are probably ol' Swarmy and Skarbrand. And I'm not even sure about Swarmy at the moment.

That doesn't really matter that much. He's slow with his only options being rhinos, land raiders, deepstrike, and footslogging. He's just 6 inch movement and then possible running and out of close combat he is rarely doing anything useful. Don't look for a solution to him, look through a way to tear through the rest of the army

Oh, and Abaddon is a beast. Favored of Horus, he earned his rank. He's worked his terminator armor off uniting the forces and preparing for a crusade each time achieving victories for a final success. He has shunned princedom determined to not become it... yet. The sword fluffwise is far more terrifying than you might believe. He's blessed by all four gods and is arguably the most significant chaos lord since Horus. Now, he is not equal to a primarch. Any single primarch would still best him unless their connection to the real realm (daemon primarchs) was so unstable they were already dissapearing and even then it would like prove to be difficult. A daemon prince though? Honestly I could see him doing it.

I like the look of Vulkan Hestan but dont own him. Whats the consensus is he any good? Master crafted melta must be nice for the army? Salamanders with him seem like an army with potential in the hands of a skilled player(rules me out).

As for Vehicles, I like the Whirlwind a lot. Dunno why but I like the unit first time I saw it. Have had some good success with it too.

Vulkan he'stan

Can't find a lot on him as a warrior but seems a hard ass former salamander captain of the 4th company. Now the forgefather on some star trek quest to find artifacts of vulkan. Would actually stand a chance against abaddon?

You are right about abaddon he's a tank and can't be compared to any one space marine character. But since he's been turning down daemon hood as he's not ready for it yet ( good move I say since he would lose himself completely to chaos) but should become a daemon prince then forget it he would become most likely as powerful as a primarch?

But as before the only way to deal with him currently is to drain him from his army and long range bolt him down by number x-high guns and drop him with a lead infection

Keep sending your fav characters and don't forget to tell everyone why, another vote for sternguard it seems

Master of the Forge with a Conversion Beamer.

Coolest thing in the Astartes armory, hands-down. Dark Age of Technology-era lost archaeotech that converts solid matter directly to energy in a blinding flash of light, capable of hitting almost anything within line-of-sight on a standard sized board, capable of blowing up Land Raiders in a single shot...

Nothing short of amazing. It's extremely rare for me to NOT field a MOTF as my Warlord.

Oh, if I were to pick a named Character, I'd go for Asterion Moloc.



Yeah. Badass doesn't even come close.

 kerikhaos wrote:
Vulkan he'stan

Can't find a lot on him as a warrior but seems a hard ass former salamander captain of the 4th company. Now the forgefather on some star trek quest to find artifacts of vulkan. Would actually stand a chance against abaddon?

You are right about abaddon he's a tank and can't be compared to any one space marine character. But since he's been turning down daemon hood as he's not ready for it yet ( good move I say since he would lose himself completely to chaos) but should become a daemon prince then forget it he would become most likely as powerful as a primarch?

But as before the only way to deal with him currently is to drain him from his army and long range bolt him down by number x-high guns and drop him with a lead infection

Keep sending your fav characters and don't forget to tell everyone why, another vote for sternguard it seems

Yeah I love Vulkan personally. A necron really liked his weapon and wanted to steal it for his collection. Vulkan was not pleased .

As you mentioned, Vulkan would put up a challenge fluffwise, and wouldn't die cause important character syndrome, but he would lose in the end. not really per say. Daemon Princes are an odd wibbly wobbly state. Their connection, although I think some fluff says it is better than other daemonic forces, is still, in the end tenuous. The mightiest of daemons are always at danger of flickering at out. Whilst they are heavily resilient, that's a lot of warp energy in the rea world that REALLY shouldn't be there. Anyways, if Abaddon became a daemon prince, he still wouldn't be on their levels probably. He'd be high up there and could possibly even best some non daemonic primarchs but that would require all four gods just pumping him up constantly and I can't help but feel that they wouldn't want the individual to be as powerful as their own personal champions (Angron, Mortarion, Fulgrim, Magnus). Still, the fluff is silly and draigo has bested Mortarion before. That being said, Draigo is infamous for being called OTT even for an OTT environment. Ignoring that, daemon princes (which if you think about it should usually be better than a Chapter Master) have been bested many times by captains and chapter masters, modified humans have been able to banish some of the mightiest daemons with a super specialized sword, and Gulliman handed Swarmy a new one even though fluffwise Swarmy would still probably win (I really don't entirely know with the new special rules). Anyways, Abaddon is a fun character. He's not competitive, he really doesn't bring that much synergy to your army, but he is one of the most entertaining characters in the game just for ripping apart foes in CC like a beast (and its kinda entertaining when you start rolling +1 S on him and the sorts)

Favorite character: Dante. It's a shame his table stats are hardly worth the points, and despite being super old and famous, he lacks the ever-important eternal warrior to keep a character relevant in the big guns category. Also yay for initiative 6 on an unwieldy weapon. -_-

Favorite unit: will always have a soft spot for genestealers. Used to run several squads in 3rd when rending was "roll 6 to hit = wound"

Favorite vehicle: Furioso Librarian dreadnoughts.

So what exactly happened to this guy? He's still on a quest for those artifacts and holding the title of forge master? Why did the emperor choose one of his greatest warriors to take on such a lame ass quest away from the war? Surely he was much needed locally

 kerikhaos wrote:




Ok I give up. It seems abaddon with all 4 god blessings can't be beaten one on one with anyone character from the imperium. Unfortunately anyone who can get a chance wouldn't be human and the only chance that the humans would have would be bolt him him to death with like a load of distance shooters non stop or blasts from a something like a land raider. Seems chaos has a character with more or less the same strengths of what a pre herecy prim arch would have.

So there you have it one to one forget it with abaddon it's not going to happen

In the fluff Draigo could carve the sentence 'Draigo wuz here' up Abbadon's spinal column with only his pinky.

In the game abaddon can be easily beaten by a regular Space Marine Chapter Master with the Shield Eternal, Armor Indomitus, Burning Blade and Bike.

Let's be honest. Draigo can beat all the gods of chaos, pimp slap the Emperor in his prime, and waltz on through everything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kerikhaos wrote:
So what exactly happened to this guy? He's still on a quest for those artifacts and holding the title of forge master? Why did the emperor choose one of his greatest warriors to take on such a lame ass quest away from the war? Surely he was much needed locally

Draigo? Or are we still talking Vulkan? If we are talking Vulkan (which it seems like you are), the emperor has nothing to do with it. Vulkan is a mantle, a name taken upon by the forge master. Salamander's know not of what happened to their primarch, many claim he still lives. They believed that if they find all the artefacts, they will be able to find their primarch. That is why he is out on his quest. If you meant Draigo. Draigo was silly op running around killing all daemons like nothing, got sucked into the warp, defied all fluff and run amuck, and randomly gets spit out to destroy and then get sucked back into the warp. Don't ask why he pops up against everything, if we want to question that, question why GK are more likely going to be fighting Imperial or xenos forces

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 kerikhaos wrote:

SYKOJAK wrote:
I know that this might be a bit of a stretch, but for favorite character from MEQ lists, I like Justicar Thrawn from CHAPTER 666: Grey Knights. There is no more annoying dude than a guy who refuses to die. Even if removed as a casualty to put a counter on the board where he fell.. The start of your turn and every following turn, roll a d6. If the result is 4+, put Thrawn back on the table within 1 " of counter.

For favorite SM squad, I like good 'ole Devastator squads. They have the heavy guns able to deal with every and any threat.

For favorite SM vehicle, nothing is cooler than a Land Raider.

So in other words he could face abaddon and have a chance since if he got dropped he could resurrect in the next turn and continue bashing him? Or am I reaching here?

Good to know your fav list

Yup! Assuming he still has a turn left he can still keep on coming back. He reminds me of that knight who refuses to accept any wounds fromt he movie Monty Python's The Holy Grail...... Tis but a scratch!
Yes, that is true. Well, at least if you don't count it as Abaddon winning the first time Thawn dies... Or if Thawn runs out of turns which is likely.

Read the GK codex. my vote is now between draigo and tharn.
Vehicle: dreadknight, looks much better if you don't use the oversized crotch plate.
Unit: still terminators.

I love my Honour guard. just five of these guys on the charge (with the chapter banner) gets 6 attacks each, ap3 with power swords. Heretics will die!

I use vanguard veterans with normal back packs instead of the jump packs as my honour guard models because they look totally boss and the more dynamic poses fits a close combat unit way more than the rather dull, standing still poses 90% of all space marines have.

I love the LS Storm. I just love the idea and the look.

I wish it had better rules though. ><

the LS storm has some pretty cool stuff.

I'm considering bringing one to protect my Centurions a bit from deep striking units (drop pod sternguards, I'm looking at you!)
or keeping it in reserve with 5 bolter scouts for a mid-late objective grab unit.

it's blinding blast weapon is a good support weapon for melee units as well so it has some synergy with a few units too. If it lives long enough... xD

 StarTrotter wrote:
Let's be honest. Draigo can beat all the gods of chaos, pimp slap the Emperor in his prime, and waltz on through everything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kerikhaos wrote:
So what exactly happened to this guy? He's still on a quest for those artifacts and holding the title of forge master? Why did the emperor choose one of his greatest warriors to take on such a lame ass quest away from the war? Surely he was much needed locally

Draigo? Or are we still talking Vulkan? If we are talking Vulkan (which it seems like you are), the emperor has nothing to do with it. Vulkan is a mantle, a name taken upon by the forge master. Salamander's know not of what happened to their primarch, many claim he still lives. They believed that if they find all the artefacts, they will be able to find their primarch. That is why he is out on his quest. If you meant Draigo. Draigo was silly op running around killing all daemons like nothing, got sucked into the warp, defied all fluff and run amuck, and randomly gets spit out to destroy and then get sucked back into the warp. Don't ask why he pops up against everything, if we want to question that, question why GK are more likely going to be fighting Imperial or xenos forces

so are salamanders involved with the battle as like all other chapters or are they out there doing their own thing most of the time like looking for these artifacts? Surely the emperor knows the whereabouts or the outcome of their primarch why not just tell them and be done with the wild goose chases?

ok everyone its an old post but I found some neat info on the web that apparently a load of folks have played against abaddon and actually beat him one to one in close combat.

I didn't check every single vs match but since im a blood angels fella the few games which I saw recorded stuck in my head.

This match came form this post and details that abaddon had lost to none other but the Sanguinor. Can you believe it and I've just checked that The Sanguinor is actually more expensive point wise than Mephiston.

http://40kproject.blogspot.com/2011/02/abbadon-vs-sanguinor-calgar-vs.html

im pretty sure the odds were in The Sanguinors favour but still its proof I guess that abaddon can fall from one on one combat

what do you guys think

The thing is with that data is that it's from 5th edition, where all power weapons ignored all armour saves. In those days there were plenty capable of hurting him, but now that Sangy is AP3 he's not really capable of doing it.

Abbadon is one of the characters that really gained from the 6th Ed changes, with an AP2-at-initiative weapon and a 2+ save. Sangy has the 2+ save, but no AP2 weapon, meaning he's not getting through Abbadon's saves.

 Paradigm wrote:
The thing is with that data is that it's from 5th edition, where all power weapons ignored all armour saves. In those days there were plenty capable of hurting him, but now that Sangy is AP3 he's not really capable of doing it.

Abbadon is one of the characters that really gained from the 6th Ed changes, with an AP2-at-initiative weapon and a 2+ save. Sangy has the 2+ save, but no AP2 weapon, meaning he's not getting through Abbadon's saves.

your probably right........ok I give up with killing myself to find the worthy opponent for this guy. Seems games workshop must of thought to piss everyone off from dropping everyone elses stats lower and boosting abaddons.

How far away is the new blood angels / space marines codex to be released? Hopefully we can see something change for our benefits this time round

I don't know about the BA codex (later this year, at a guess), but the SM codex released last year might have something. If you can knock a wound or two off beforehand, then a Chapter Master on bike with the Shield Eternal, Artificer armour and a Thunder Hammer could probably hold his own, and the bike would make sure he gets the charge. Iron Hands CT also gives him a 6+ FNP and a 5+ IWND (regenerate wounds). Take him with a squad of scoring bikes as a plug-in to your BA if you really want to take on Abbadon 1 on 1.

what I don't understand is why has sanguinors cost still remained at 275 when I cant justify his powers to come even close with abaddons. I mean even mephiston who is cheaper by 25 is a better character than sanguinor. It doesn't make any sense

It's the same problem with the rest of the BA codex: age. In the new codex, expect him (and everything else) to either get a lot cheaper or get a huge boost (hell, an AP2 weapon and IC status would do it), maybe a bit of both. BA are in a bad place at the moment due to a number of factors, one of which is having the only marines that cost 10-20% more than their rough equivalents.

my guess is don't all other codices for example have characters which reach up the 250 - 275 point costs? And how do these compare power wise with others? Like you said is it because the codex of that time has remained un touched while everything else has been brought forward with new power and abilities? Its a pretty dodgy thing since when someone gets a new codex it could break the competitors game.

There's a lot of disparity between characters of similar costs, due to a combination of factors such as age of codex and the role of the character. Comparing some of those with 200+ costs (And a few others):

Wrecking Balls:
- Abbadon, fairly costed and nigh-unbeatable in CC. However, lacks mobility and provides no real leadership bonus. Require a tough bodyguard squad to be effective.
- Lysander, great at CC but only at CC. Fairly priced, and like Abbadon, has no real mobility without a Land Raider. Require a tough bodyguard squad to be effective.
- Mephiston: has great stats, but lacks AP2 and an invuln, meaning he requires more finesse than some options. Probably a bit expensive.


Leaders:
- Calgar: while he's no slouch in CC, Calgar is far more a leader, allowing double use of a particular Doctrine and also giving complete control over morale for the whole army. Very useful, and fairly costed.
- Imhotek: Again, no pushover in combat, but his real ability to control night fighting (and use lightning) and a re-roll on seizing. Fairly costed, bordering on too good.
- Possibly Tycho: not as much of a CC monster as other BA characters, but provides some solid buffs, I think. Fairly costed given the age of the codex.

All-rounders:
- Ragnar Blackmane: Lacks AP2 but has a neat weapon and stats, as well as a good-ish invuln. Throws out a good buff to his squad and can give a FC bubble once per game. No 2+ save though so he's no duelist. Maybe a bit expensive.
- The Sanguinor: Mobile and can slaughter non-characters with ease, it's only in 1v1 duels he suffers, and only through lack of AP2. Makes 1 sarge a mini-character, which can be handy. Has a Chapter Banner-like effect. Probably overcosted, due to older codex, but in a vacuum he's OK.
- Sicarius: A good mix of CC and leadership abilities, he's fairly costed, but outclassed by Calgar for leadership, Tigurius for tricks and Lysander for CC.

Game-changers:
- Logan Grimngar: Has good CC prowess and opens up Wolf Guard troops. He's fine, but SW termies are not the most effective, so his use is limited. Maybe a bit expensive.
- Astorath: triples chances of Red Thirst and lifts the Death Co limit, so can lend himself to a CC-orientated BA army. However, a 4++ and no EW means he himself is less useful, as many characters/units can kill him before you swing at I1. He does hit hard, eventually. Was fairly costed in 5th, but the changes to power axes and FC made him less useful.

So really, most of the BA characters were fairly costed in 5th, when Sang and Meph had AP1 weapons and Astorath and Dante swung at initiative. It's only in 6th that they've suffered, and I expect the new codex to fix this as it has with most other 'made for 5th' characters. It's just a case of waiting.

thanks so much for the detailed breakdown, makes more sense to me and all I can do now is wait for the new codex and hope for some fixes to bring the blood angels back to speed. We never know maybe one of the characters may indeed have a better chance at a one on one with abaddon. I eagerly await.

So when did abaddon get a face lift - from the chaos codex or does he have an individual one for his chapter?

Abbadon was good in the 4/5th Chaos dex, then for a brief period at the beginning of 6th lost AP2 (thanks to having a sword), but as the 6th ed Chaos codex was one of the first to be released, he was only worse for about 3 months, before getting suddenly better again. Other than that, he's been pretty consistently good since late 4th.

3 months only? You mean the gap between the 5th codex and 6th was only 3 months?

No, what I meant was that the 4th Ed chaos codex came out towards the end of 4th (2006, I think), and lasted through the 4 years of 5th. Then 6th ed came out in June 2012, and the 6th ed chaos codex came out in September/October 2012, iirc.

Chaos had no 5th ed codex, only the 4th ed one which lasted through until the 6th Ed one. It was the period of 6th ed that chaos were still running on the 4th ed codex that he suffered from the AP3 sword rules.

iv got you......makes perfect sense - cheers

My favourite character is Belial, because he makes terminators troops.

My favourite troops squad is Deathwing terminators.

Sure, they're not a great unit and woefully overpriced for their capability, but I like them.

I have always liked Chaplains. They have good buffs, and can be used anyway you want. They can be standard power armour, termy armour, on a bike, and can have a jump pack. I just love all the models and the rules for them.

The Terminator Chaplain is one of the coolest models GW sell.

I've never understood the roles of chaplains and their effect in squads

Character: Azreal/ Interrogator Chaplin
Unit: Deathwing knights
Vehicle: Land Raider Redeemer

Trials of Azreal was awesome and a great reason why I like/respect Azreal. Fluff wise and through gameplay, I love the interrogator. The model looks cool.
Knights are awesome. T5 ( if played right) with 3 S10 on a charge with reroll on chaos SM - yes please.
Land raiders are SM tanks of steroids.

Totally agree with you there about the land raider but which one is best and why? Standard raider, redeemer or crusader?

Well it comes down to play style. General LR gives you a mobile long ranged bunker. Crusader gives you transport and anti infantry and Redeemer gives an amazing assault results.

Not that there's a model or rules for him, but my favorite character at the moment is Hazon D'Kir. A close second goes to Erasmus Tycho. Tycho in particular during his last battle at Armageddon. You know you're bad ass when another Chapter Master gives you a squad of his veterans for an Honor Guard (which I hope to model one day as a diorama).

Squad = Sanguinary Guard. Man were they fun to model and paint.

Vehicle = Moriar the Chosen.

My thumbs up go to tycho too. He's legend.

My favourite character: Chapter Master - correctly kitted, he'll eat people in close combat, and is tough to knock down (Burning Blade and Shield Eternal, I'm looking at you!)
My favourite unit: Sternguard Veterans - the embodiment of flexibility combined with more than decent firepower. The feeling's great when you roll well while your Sternguards are firing a volley of Hellfire shots, and the opponent's HQ has 10+ armour saves to absorb.
My favourite vehicle: Land Raider - almost any loadout. Raw firepower, tough to crack open, and (most of the time) transports terminators.

In game, I like all the command-y units...command squads, honor guards, all the HQ's...and also the humble tac squad.

I actually don't much like SM vehicles because most of them are pretty boring. The exception is the drop pod, which I think looks cool, has awesome rules, and has a great "feel" to it.

Sammael-- Imperial Jetbike? With a plasma cannon? Ravensword? Admantium Mantle? Just on wargear alone he is awesome. His ascent to the top of the Ravenwing, and some of his close-calls are pretty awesome too. Not really so much a tactician or strategic genius, just a relentless hunter that is almost impossible to kill. Awesome.

Favorite character is my Chapter Master on a bike with Artificer Armour and the Burning Blade. This guy just completely wrecks shop and get's into combat quick. (Also allows me to bring Honour guard who I team up with a Chap in Termie Armour and a Chapter Banner, very nasty combination)

Favorite Squad is the assault squad. I run my SM as Raven Guard and the assault squad is the reason why. I usually give them two flamers and kit the Vet. Sgt. out with the two lightning claws and throw in a chaplain, I need the rerolls thanks to my terrible luck.

Favorite vehicle is the Storm Raven, chock full of utility. Standard loadout is TLMM and TLAC and add on a locator beacon. I typically put a 5 man scout squad or 10 man tac squad with flamer/combi flamer in it for objective grabs later on.

The humble Space Marine Whilrwind. Nothing else for 65 points says "feth you, and the wave serpent you rode in on" to Eldar on foot after you've popped their transport.

See also, IG blob squads.

 kronk wrote:
The humble Space Marine Whilrwind. Nothing else for 65 points says "feth you, and the wave serpent you rode in on" to Eldar on foot after you've popped their transport.

See also, IG blob squads.

Gotta pop it first. That's the whole problem. I have a hundred ways to kill Eldar foot troops. And zero to kill Wave Serpents.

Martel732 wrote:

 kronk wrote:
The humble Space Marine Whilrwind. Nothing else for 65 points says "feth you, and the wave serpent you rode in on" to Eldar on foot after you've popped their transport.

See also, IG blob squads.

Gotta pop it first. That's the whole problem. I have a hundred ways to kill Eldar foot troops. And zero to kill Wave Serpents.

"Take three of me and call me in the morning!"

 kronk wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 kronk wrote:
The humble Space Marine Whilrwind. Nothing else for 65 points says "feth you, and the wave serpent you rode in on" to Eldar on foot after you've popped their transport.

See also, IG blob squads.

Gotta pop it first. That's the whole problem. I have a hundred ways to kill Eldar foot troops. And zero to kill Wave Serpents.

"Take three of me and call me in the morning!"

Awesome pic of white scars I'm guessing???

I have to go with the Betrayer... Kharn is 40k incarnate. Death, blood, and grim darkness all rolled into one.

Ahriman is a close second.

 kerikhaos wrote:

 kronk wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 kronk wrote:
The humble Space Marine Whilrwind. Nothing else for 65 points says "feth you, and the wave serpent you rode in on" to Eldar on foot after you've popped their transport.

See also, IG blob squads.

Gotta pop it first. That's the whole problem. I have a hundred ways to kill Eldar foot troops. And zero to kill Wave Serpents.

"Take three of me and call me in the morning!"

Awesome pic of white scars I'm guessing???

Yes, they are white scars.

And if we can pick Chaos Marines, I echo Kharn. He is not a warrior, he is an insatiable lawnmower.

Is kharn a playable character in chaos armies iron is he just fluff?

So I was reading a bit about the white scars and I'm seeing they have been portrayed like the old mongols such as the great khan?? Interesting

 kerikhaos wrote:
Is kharn a playable character in chaos armies iron is he just fluff?

So I was reading a bit about the white scars and I'm seeing they have been portrayed like the old mongols such as the great khan?? Interesting

Kharn is a playable character; unfortunately 6th edition doesn't lend itself to CC real well lol. I would run him with a unit of Zerkers and wreak havok in CC back in 5th. He is an awesome model and a great fluff character, especially in the Heresy series.

Kharn is not particularly impressive resilience wise, an unupgraded Captain is tougher thanks to his Iron Halo, but if you charge him against anything short of Lysander he will nom it like nobody's business.

7 Strength 7 AP2 Armourbane attacks that always hit on a 2+ (With rerolls first round if he is Warlord) makes most things just melt before him.

Kharn is the ultimate cc character. Put him in a land raider with some berserkers. Makes anything dead.

Last time I faced Mephiston I used Logan Grimnar to kill him in one round of combat. Always hits on 3's, ap2, wounding on 2s. Preffered enemy. Eternal warrior. 2+ save. The ultimate Mephiston killer.

Fave character: Ezekiel. I just love the model. Robes and librarians are awesome.

Fave unit: that's a hard one. Death company with jump packs are really awesome.

Fave tank: land raider crusader. Accept no substitutes.

Ok do I need to know the difference between the 3 land raider models ? Standard, redeemer and crusader and what's better and why??

Master of the forge w/ conversion Beamer
Lysander
Terminator Chaplain

 kerikhaos wrote:
Ok do I need to know the difference between the 3 land raider models ? Standard, redeemer and crusader and what's better and why??

It's something worth knowing.

The standard Land Raider (Or Godhammer. Or Phobos. All are the same) comes with a 12(or 10?) man transport capacity, two TL Lascannons and a TL Heavy Bolter.

The Crusader Pattern Land Raider comes with two Hurricane Bolters and a Twin Linked Assault Cannon. It has a 16 man transport capacity.

The Land Raider Redeemer has two Flamestorm Cannons and a TL Assault Cannon. I think it has a 12 man transport capacity, but I could be wrong.

Basically, one for lasers, one for carrying more mans, one for throwing fire and mans at people.

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 kerikhaos wrote:
Ok do I need to know the difference between the 3 land raider models ? Standard, redeemer and crusader and what's better and why??

It's something worth knowing.

The standard Land Raider (Or Godhammer. Or Phobos. All are the same) comes with a 12(or 10?) man transport capacity, two TL Lascannons and a TL Heavy Bolter.

The Crusader Pattern Land Raider comes with two Hurricane Bolters and a Twin Linked Assault Cannon. It has a 16 man transport capacity.

The Land Raider Redeemer has two Flamestorm Cannons and a TL Assault Cannon. I think it has a 12 man transport capacity, but I could be wrong.

Basically, one for lasers, one for carrying more mans, one for throwing fire and mans at people.

Thanks, in the past I've heard redeemers are more the preferred choice but I will need to read more why that is

 kerikhaos wrote:
Ok do I need to know the difference between the 3 land raider models ? Standard, redeemer and crusader and what's better and why??

Each land raider has it's purpose.

The standard one can deliver troops into close combat while taking out other vehicles (you could potentially move toward a transport, unload your cc unit, destroy the transport with your lascannons, then assault the unit that falls out).

I'm not so sure about the Redeemer. It's flamestorm cannons are beast at killing power armour in cover. And it has the extra transport space. It would be ideal for dislodging marines from objectives in cover. An assault terminator unit with a terminator chaplain or a librarian will fit nicely. That combo could clear out several squads at once.

The crusader is my personal favourite. It can fire a lot of shots and doesn't have to get that close to take out piles of infantry. Also, it can carry 16 men. So you can build crazy uber units and fit them all in. 15 blood claws and a chaplain? No worries. 6 terminators, a rune priest and Logan Grimnar? That'll fit too. Your opponent will probably do everything they can to destroy it, but that's a good thing. That means they're not destroying your other stuff, and land raiders tend to take quite a lot to destroy. By the time it is finally wrecked, it's probably done its job several items over. Just look out for lance weapons and haywire grenades. They'll take out a land raider quick smart.

 Kavish wrote:

 kerikhaos wrote:
Ok do I need to know the difference between the 3 land raider models ? Standard, redeemer and crusader and what's better and why??

Each land raider has it's purpose.

The standard one can deliver troops into close combat while taking out other vehicles (you could potentially move toward a transport, unload your cc unit, destroy the transport with your lascannons, then assault the unit that falls out).

I'm not so sure about the Redeemer. It's flamestorm cannons are beast at killing power armour in cover. And it has the extra transport space. It would be ideal for dislodging marines from objectives in cover. An assault terminator unit with a terminator chaplain or a librarian will fit nicely. That combo could clear out several squads at once.

The crusader is my personal favourite. It can fire a lot of shots and doesn't have to get that close to take out piles of infantry. Also, it can carry 16 men. So you can build crazy uber units and fit them all in. 15 blood claws and a chaplain? No worries. 6 terminators, a rune priest and Logan Grimnar? That'll fit too. Your opponent will probably do everything they can to destroy it, but that's a good thing. That means they're not destroying your other stuff, and land raiders tend to take quite a lot to destroy. By the time it is finally wrecked, it's probably done its job several items over. Just look out for lance weapons and haywire grenades. They'll take out a land raider quick smart.

nicely described I will need to think long and hard about which one will be best used by me.

Just to amend my post - are there any upgrades for these raiders about? I think there was a forge world one where it provides 4x sets of weapons on the sides. 2x twin linked laz cannons on either side. My questions are what is the upgrade called, cost of the upgrade and the change of cost points to the army. Lastly does the upgrade make it better not just apocalypse battles?

To my knowledge, redeemers and crusaders can take a pintle multi melta, as well as the usual upgrades. Forgeworld produce several other varients, such ss the Achilles (lance and melta immune, with two Tl'd multi melta sponsons and a Thunderfire cannon), Prometheus (three Tl'd Heavy Bolters), as well as a variant with a Whirlwind Launcher of sorts. There's a few more, but I can't remember them right now. Lexicanum likely has information about them.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
To my knowledge, redeemers and crusaders can take a pintle multi melta, as well as the usual upgrades. Forgeworld produce several other varients, such ss the Achilles (lance and melta immune, with two Tl'd multi melta sponsons and a Thunderfire cannon), Prometheus (three Tl'd Heavy Bolters), as well as a variant with a Whirlwind Launcher of sorts. There's a few more, but I can't remember them right now. Lexicanum likely has information about them.

Thanks for that. Will go and do some research

 liquidjoshi wrote:
To my knowledge, redeemers and crusaders can take a pintle multi melta, as well as the usual upgrades. Forgeworld produce several other varients, such ss the Achilles (lance and melta immune, with two Tl'd multi melta sponsons and a Thunderfire cannon), Prometheus (three Tl'd Heavy Bolters), as well as a variant with a Whirlwind Launcher of sorts. There's a few more, but I can't remember them right now. Lexicanum likely has information about them.

Standard Land Raiders can also take pintle meltas.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 liquidjoshi wrote:
To my knowledge, redeemers and crusaders can take a pintle multi melta, as well as the usual upgrades. Forgeworld produce several other varients, such ss the Achilles (lance and melta immune, with two Tl'd multi melta sponsons and a Thunderfire cannon), Prometheus (three Tl'd Heavy Bolters), as well as a variant with a Whirlwind Launcher of sorts. There's a few more, but I can't remember them right now. Lexicanum likely has information about them.

Standard Land Raiders can also take pintle meltas.

Nice, even if it's not as useful as it is on other variants.

I love me some landspeeders. Their look and concept, to my eyes, are awesome. I remember having the toy of Luke's speeder from Star Wars and loving it very much too. Guess it's a childhood nostalgia thing maybe?

I'd sell my car and wife to own a real landspeeder though.

Just kidding honey...

Plywood_Slayer wrote:
I love me some landspeeders. Their look and concept, to my eyes, are awesome. I remember having the toy of Luke's speeder from Star Wars and loving it very much too. Guess it's a childhood nostalgia thing maybe?

I'd sell my car and wife to own a real landspeeder though.

Just kidding honey...

Haha nicely finished

Oh, the humble Land Speeders, how I love them!
Seriously, they are a great concept, a shame that they pretty much suck on field... :/

I own two of them and once used them in every game.
Hmm... I might blow the dust off of them and give them a shot!

Does it also make a difference on who is riding them for there to be a change in effectiveness?

 kerikhaos wrote:
Does it also make a difference on who is riding them for there to be a change in effectiveness?

Is that for Raiders or Speeders? Although the answer to both is yes, Speeders can only carry scouts (and it has to be a Land Speeder Storm).

 kerikhaos wrote:
So he no longer exists in the game because he's dead or lost in warp?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok I give up. It seems abaddon with all 4 god blessings can't be beaten one on one with anyone character from the imperium. Unfortunately anyone who can get a chance wouldn't be human and the only chance that the humans would have would be bolt him him to death with like a load of distance shooters non stop or blasts from a something like a land raider. Seems chaos has a character with more or less the same strengths of what a pre herecy prim arch would have.

So there you have it one to one forget it with abaddon it's not going to happen

Actually if you saw the stats for the primarchs, Abbadon would get pasted by every single one of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any ways back on topic:

Love the looks of the new Sternguard, might kitbash them into honor guard (and captain titus is in the box too).

Love Vulkans fluff, and the fact that Trollzyn failed to snatch his spear, twice!

I like my Storm Talons, cheap and effective at both Anti-Air and ground.

 ace101 wrote:

 kerikhaos wrote:
So he no longer exists in the game because he's dead or lost in warp?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok I give up. It seems abaddon with all 4 god blessings can't be beaten one on one with anyone character from the imperium. Unfortunately anyone who can get a chance wouldn't be human and the only chance that the humans would have would be bolt him him to death with like a load of distance shooters non stop or blasts from a something like a land raider. Seems chaos has a character with more or less the same strengths of what a pre herecy prim arch would have.

So there you have it one to one forget it with abaddon it's not going to happen

Actually if you saw the stats for the primarchs, Abbadon would get pasted by every single one of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any ways back on topic:

Love the looks of the new Sternguard, might kitbash them into honor guard (and captain titus is in the box too).

Love Vulkans fluff, and the fact that Trollzyn failed to snatch his spear, twice!

I like my Storm Talons, cheap and effective at both Anti-Air and ground.

keep us posted with your progress on that project. I have yet to open my sternguard pack up but will be cool to check out other peoples sterns, honor and vanguards