Right now these look like pre-painted collectible miniatures . However this might actually be my favorite time in the painting process. It's when I've finally gotten all the fundamentals out of the way and can start work on the details. While I used to completely detail some parts of a miniature before painting the rest of it, I now find it more motivating to finish base-coating the entire miniature first because it makes the miniature seem more complete.
Swordwind wrote:
Also you paint rather fast, to me at least. Takes me about 3 days to get 1 colour down. ):
kitch102 wrote:
And I second swordwinds comment, you paint unnaturally fast
I'n actually convinced that I paint quite slowly compared with a lot of people! I think that what lets me get a lot done has more to do with having learned to be more disciplined about painting. For example, I generally get a bit of painting in every day even if it's only fifteen minutes. In this time I set very modest goals such as "I'll paint all the right hands on these miniatures". This helps with motivation a lot too. Everyone has parts of miniatures that they find boring or tedious to paint. Painting all these bits at once lets you get those parts out of the way so you don't have them annoying you every time you look at a WIP squad. Painting the same bits together also makes you faster overall because you don't need to think about how you're going to approach the next part. You just paint it like the first few!
Having a good audiobook(s) and podcasts to listen to also helps to keep me going.
First mini's of the Year of the Dragon! May you find health, wealth and happiness in the new year, unlike these poor creatures! I really like how the blue face plates turned out, given that I had considered painting them bronze. They make a nice focal point for the miniature. I'll probably paint a few more at some point (I'd like to try out the special weapons, especially the liquifier) but right now I'm just running them as two squads of three for cheap objective grabbers.
Seeing how well these guys turned out makes me want to paint some Grotesques. It's a shame that GW offers only one "speed skater pose". Otherwise I'd have bought a squad right away. However, I have seen some amazing conversions using the Isle of Blood Rat Ogres. The only thing preventing me from picking some up is that they're always out of stock at bitz sites!
I would love to see some Crypt Horror Grotesques tbh.
When I come to make some more I'll likely grab a box, it'll give me 3 more grots and a ton of bitz.
But yeah - there's also several options, using spare Talos bits / Greenstuff with Skaven Rat Ogres, Ogre Kingdoms Ogres or Wood Elf Dryads.
There's also a few third-party companies that will do them too.
And if you could find any 40-50mm tall Dragonball minis / models / toys, they're in the correct vein for this too (generally being smaller legs, huge arms, massively over muscled and proportinately funny)
Dude, you have GOT to get these in to the what's new today blog, seriously, great work
Been planning some Crypt Horrors with spare Talos masks and vials myself, they'd make for some fantastic grotesques, and much better than the monopose model that GW released
kitch102 wrote:Dude, you have GOT to get these in to the what's new today blog, seriously, great work
Been planning some Crypt Horrors with spare Talos masks and vials myself, they'd make for some fantastic grotesques, and much better than the monopose model that GW released
He's already been in the blog, albeit rather unexpectedly.
I never even considered Crypt Horrors but now that I look at them they do have the exact body shape for Grotesques! Definitely something to think about and hope that some third party comes out with an "upgrade kit".
Tech Guard wrote:For the Grotesques maybe use the new crypt horrors set, that might look cool. The wracks look awsome, although some how the skin seems shiny.
Alfndrate wrote:The skin was probably still drying.
I think the brand of matt varnish I use (Mr.Color) has either changed their formula or I had a slightly shiner can than usual. However, I no longer have any problems with the varnish fogging up (which I still get sometimes with other brands) so it's a tradeoff I'm willing to accept. Also, the Wracks seem to have dried a bit more overnight and have lost some of that muscular sheen of sweat look.
Swordwind wrote:Happy Year of the Dragon to you too. Great Wracks, knew they'd come out well. What's your next project?
Live long and prosper (I always thought that summed up most of the tradition greetings)! I've been trying to decide between Wyches and a Razorwing Jetfighter.
Ovion wrote:I would love to see some Crypt Horror Grotesques tbh. And if you could find any 40-50mm tall Dragonball minis / models / toys, they're in the correct vein for this too (generally being smaller legs, huge arms, massively over muscled and proportinately funny)
That might work although I think Grotesques outdo even DBZ in terms of proportions!
whalemusic360 wrote:The Paulson Games Grots are awesome. Highly poseable and highly detailed. The don't come with any upgrades though, that would require conversion
I had a look on their website but they seem to have discontinued them.
IPS wrote:They are so ugly...In a good way! ; )
Thanks!
monkeyh wrote:Always look forward to seeing your completed minis Jon and as usual you have done a super job of them. Well done mate.
Thanks for the regular support!
kitch102 wrote:Dude, you have GOT to get these in to the what's new today blog, seriously, great work Been planning some Crypt Horrors with spare Talos masks and vials myself, they'd make for some fantastic grotesques, and much better than the monopose model that GW released
I've been meaning to take some photos of various models in better lighting and sending them in to GW but I keep ending up painting stuff instead!
Alfndrate wrote:He's already been in the blog, albeit rather unexpectedly.
and I hope to be in again, although perhaps by a more conventional route this time. Although if GW was willing to fly me to Italy I'd be happy to do my painting there!
Seriously Jon, you have to slow down or you're going to run out of ways to impress us if you keep this pace up!
I've never seen anyone stick to a colour theme as well as yet and you truly are an inspiration, not just with Dark Eldar but with this hobby in general.
The fact that you gave me credit for sharing how to cut the rudder bits on Raiders and Ravagers a few posts back makes you even more praise-worthy in my books.
</gush mode>
So now a hobby question, do you have a list in mind for the Wracks and the Grotesques or are you building and painting them mostly for the joy of the hobby?
Looking over the Vampire Counts model range, I stumbled upon Isabella Von Carstein. Am I only who thinks that, with a quick head swap and amore vicious looking blade, she would make a great Female Archon? Would look quite sweet next to your sexy female Haemonculus conversion...
Can't wait to see what you come up with for Grotesques, I'm sure you'll exceed our expectation as always.
These wracks look great as usual. I particularly like how you have managed to mix up the proportions of the same colors to give totally different effects while still keeping the army look cohesive.
Also, I would LOVE to see you do a razorwing
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, what colors did you use for their skin? I can't remember if you've said already...
So far it's three votes for the Razorwing! But before I saw those votes I decided to work on some Wyches because I felt like trying out some poses I've had in mind for a while. Right now I'm having fun building the Wyches but I'll hold off on painting them and start on the Razorwing (I've actually opened the box, assembled the flying stand, test fitted the parts, and made suitable swooshing sound effects).
@Ovion: That biotitan makes me wish Forgeworld would come up with some rules for similar large bio-engineered monstrosities. I find the idea of a giant flesh golem like you've built strangely compelling. Although that would probably be encroaching on 'Nid territory.
@Dark_Gear: That was one of the most well-written complements I've ever received! The Wracks I plan to use in every build of my army. At 10 points each for a durable Troops choice I can seldom find a reason not to include at least one small squad in each list. Today I tried out two small squads of three in shock-prow equipped Raiders and they did very well. I put the Wracks in reserve and boosted the Raiders around tank shocking things and actually managed to run a squad of five bikes with and attached attack bike off the table! I then charged a squad of three Wracks into another bike squad and found that nine poisoned attacks can be surprisingly effective given that it's not easy for non-combat specialists to win combats against them. The Grotesques would be mostly for fun. Although I do dream of running a squad of ten with Lady Malys.
@spyguyyoda: I was actually pleasantly surprised that I could make the scheme work so well on such a variety of things. In particular, I thought the Warriors would look too blue, but then I hit on painting the bodysuits in the brown instead of the more commonly adopted single color schemes.
Make that 4 votes for the Razorwing, if only for getting the chance to make swooshing sounds at every game when they're deployed and launch their payload. If I played more 2500 point games I'd be dropping my lone Ravager and replace it with a 3rd Razorwing as they are just that effective and fun to use. I'm sure my opponents will disagree.
Regarding Wracks, at my last tourney, another Dark Eldar player reported great succes with 9 of them, flanked by a haemonculus, charging into IG and Termagaunts. Whatever didn't die from the liquifiers was usually quickly mopped up in the following charge. I'll definitely have to experiment with them and see if it's worth dropping some Wyches.
As for Grotesques, in a perfect world (that mythical land where time and money for new projects is never short, the FLGS is fine with FW models and your wife doesn't pass out when she learns that your "hobby" budget matches her "purse and shoe" budget), I would field 8 of them with Rakarth and bring them to the table on a Tantalus. In the meantime I'm thinking 4 of them in a Disentegrator Raider will suit my needs just fine.
I can vouch for the viability of wracks. I ran seven of 'em with an agonizer and haemie with a venom blade into a BA assault squad (including a librarian) and ended up running them off the board. Wracks work wonderfully
Hey! I've been lurking on your blog for ages and i can't for the life of me remember if i ever posted here. Well i am now, I love what your doing, props to you, sir, props to you.
I spent my free time during the last two days having fun posing a squad of Wyches, with a bunch of them leaping off rocky outcrops. I'll put some pictures up tomorrow since the glue is still drying and I don't want to risk moving them for photos yet. Going to start on the Razorwing.
@Ovion: Zap me a PM, or are they in your blog already?
@Dark_Gear: "and your wife doesn't pass out when she learns that your "hobby" budget matches her "purse and shoe" budget)". Battlefoam will take care of matching the purse budget itself! Don't know what would be a good analogy for the shoes though.
@prime12357 & other Wrack Lovers: They're probably my favorite Dark Eldar troops choices right now. If they could take something that could at least glance tanks they'd be perfect! I'm trying to get the points level at the FLGS bumped up to 2000 points so I can try some bigger squads of them on a more regular basis.
@LostSoulCasey'sLaw: You've dropped out of your lurker mode a few times in this thread already so feel free to stay decloaked for longer!
Seeing as how you liked the previous stowage tip regarding the rudders on Raiders, here's another quick tip regarding the Razorwing.
When getting ready for final assembly, you'll notice that the rear tail of the plane slides in perfectly into a set of narrow rails. The cool thing is, the fit is "just" snug enough that it won't slide out if it's not glued. Slot it in, don't glue it, paint your model. When the time comes to put it in storage, slide the tail off. You've just shaved 2 inches off the height of the model which means you don't need to invest in 6 inch foam trays as the 4 inch trays will fit it just fine. As a matter of fact, you can store 2 Razorwings in 1 single Razorwing box with no fear of damaging the models.
Have fun making swooshing sounds. In the meantime, I'll be tweaking a fun "fwooom" list, (picture 8 liquifiers in 2000 points and you'll see what fwoom stands for) <cue: evil grin>.
@ Spyguy: That's what my initial testing showed me as well but lately the Wyches have been doing the same thing with their Agonisers... So now I figure I'll be putting 2 liquifiers per squad in a Disentegrator Raider. I'm thinking Marine players won't approve of the, um, improvement...
The only time I've seen Wyches do really well is when you run 10 per squad, 2 shardnets and 1 Agoniser. Reducing a Marine Characters to 1 attack... Priceless. Sadly though, get a run of bad saves and the girls also tend to just bounce close combat at times. You win some, you lose some...
Trying out different poses is one of my favorite stages of painting and modeling miniatures. It's fun to go rooting around in your bitz box (or boxes, or disorganized heaps in my case) and finding just the right piece. I can spend hours trying different combinations and orientations of heads, torsos, legs, arms, and weapons to refine poses and create a really characterful squad. While building these Wyches I ripped off heads and arms multiple times on some of the models! I wanted to make them all look purposeful and not like they were just casually waving a weapon around in the air. I'm particularly happy with two dual knife wielding ladies leaping off the rocks.
@Dark_Gear and spyguyyoda: Right now I see the Wracks more as mid and backfield objective holders with larger squads also being able to deal with non-combat or weakened units. So I've actually not tried them against anything (like assault marines) that could give them a fair fight yet!
For mainline combat units I've found that various combinations of Beastmasters have done the best for me. Last weekend I tried a completely new list using a webway portal and two units of six Razorwing flocks which ripped their way through 12 Marine Bikers and then went on to tear up two Land Speeders. I was really impressed with just how much of the board you can cover with that setup. The real kicker is that you aren't too put out if they don't show up till a bit later since they only cost 126 points per unit.
I like the poses. Very dynamic. One of my Hekatrices (sp?) was built using one of my leftover scourge legs, so the leaping off the rock part was done for me
Looking beautiful. I especailly like those ones that seem to be leaping into the fray. The pose seems very charateristic of a wych, that she is diving headlong into battle as if she cant wait to get there. looking forward to seem these all painted up. keep up the magnificent work
I was having a hard time deciding how to paint the Razorwing. I wasn't initially going to paint the blades on the wings bronze because I thought it would make the model look too heavy in the back. But doing some research online I found that I liked the Razorwings with different colored blades better than the mono color ones. The bronze also ties in better with my other vehicles, especially the Venoms. I then tried to lighten up the look of the fins by painting runes in silver on them. I actually spent a couple hours on that but then gave it up because it just looked like a mess. After that extended bit of trial and error, and a bit of alcohol to clean the attempts off the model, I've worked out a workable approach. The lighter bronze and silver streaks add texture and interest to the large flat area, making it look lighter by breaking up the solid block of color.
First the blade in context with the rest of the model:
Next a closeup of the wing:
@CommissarKhaine: Feel free to drop by anytime!
@MudgeBlack: Thanks, I think that the color scheme only actually works because of the weathering! Take that away and it looks way to bright!
@monkeyh and Capitansolstice: Now remember what your dear old Hekatrix told you when you were only a wee sadomasochistic killer, "Running around the Arena with Hydra-Knives is all fun and games until someone puts out an eye. Then it's fun and games with only one eye."
@BossSlurpee: I wish there were a few more arms in active stabbing poses, the only ones I could find came in the Venom kit.
Dark_Gear wrote:Looking good so far. Poses are very dynamic. Great use of the Venom Wyche's legs, she looks like she just landed after a leap. Bonus points for making an all girl squad.
I'm not a big fan of male Wyches. The Wyche outfit just looks better on female models. I'm not sure why I don't feel that way about male Hellions though.
Also previously from Dark_Gear,
Dark_Gear wrote:When getting ready for final assembly, you'll notice that the rear tail of the plane slides in perfectly into a set of narrow rails. The cool thing is, the fit is "just" snug enough that it won't slide out if it's not glued. Slot it in, don't glue it, paint your model. When the time comes to put it in storage, slide the tail off. You've just shaved 2 inches off the height of the model which means you don't need to invest in 6 inch foam trays as the 4 inch trays will fit it just fine. As a matter of fact, you can store 2 Razorwings in 1 single Razorwing box with no fear of damaging the models.
Great tip, I test fitted the Razorwing and will be building it like that!
spyguyyoda wrote:I like the poses. Very dynamic. One of my Hekatrices (sp?) was built using one of my leftover scourge legs, so the leaping off the rock part was done for me
Gah, I forgot about the Scourge legs! I'll be sure to remember to bitz order some if I build any more.
The blue and the bronze both look beautiful even at these, your earliest stages of painting. Actually, i kinda want to know how the blue tastes... I bet it's refreshing like a blue slush puppie.
Automatically Appended Next Post: ...and crispy like smartie shells.
Mechanicum Jon wrote:
@monkeyh and Capitansolstice: Now remember what your dear old Hekatrix told you when you were only a wee sadomasochistic killer, "Running around the Arena with Hydra-Knives is all fun and games until someone puts out an eye. Then it's fun and games with only one eye."
I assume they've got the appropriate risk assessment paperwork in place for that process? (leaping with knives I mean)
Mechanicum Jon wrote:
@monkeyh and Capitansolstice: Now remember what your dear old Hekatrix told you when you were only a wee sadomasochistic killer, "Running around the Arena with Hydra-Knives is all fun and games until someone puts out an eye. Then it's fun and games with only one eye."
I assume they've got the appropriate risk assessment paperwork in place for that process? (leaping with knives I mean)
Whew! So it took me ages to come up with rune/glyph designs I was willing to live with. It's tricky on the Razorwing because although there are a lot of flat surfaces, the patterns have to fit in with the overall aerodynamic swooping lines of the model. I ended up drawing a to scale wing on a piece of paper and photocopying it so that I could try out various designs. This was after a failed attempt at "winging" it freehand like I've done with my Raiders. I'm quite satisfied with the final design. Especially the design on the wing which I intended to roughly symbolize the three types of missile on a weapons rack. I don't think that the rust shows up very well in these photos but I did it with my usual technique, except with more streaks to show the speed of the plane.
@LostSoulCasey'sLaw: My Kabalites only eat blue Smarties. That's what they need all those prisoners for.
On an unrelated note, I accomplished my most successful shock prow tank shock during a recent game. My friend had three bike squads lined up in range of a tank shock but the only way I could hit them was to go through three meltagunners (one for each squad). I tried it for a laugh. It worked.
The first squad's meltagun pens, but gets saved by the flickerfield and dies. The second squad fails it's leadership test and runs off the board (Sargent with Combi-melta, two meltagunners, one normal biker and a Multi-Melta attack bike). The last squad's meltagunner pens and I fail the flickerfield save. He rolls a 1 for damage result. Weapon destroyed. That meltagunner dies as well. I told my friend it was payback for an earlier game where the only thing I killed of his the whole game was a Psyker Battle Squad.
Mechanicum Jon wrote: On an unrelated note, I accomplished my most successful shock prow tank shock during a recent game. My friend had three bike squads lined up in range of a tank shock but the only way I could hit them was to go through three meltagunners (one for each squad). I tried it for a laugh. It worked.
The first squad's meltagun pens, but gets saved by the flickerfield and dies. The second squad fails it's leadership test and runs off the board (Sargent with Combi-melta, two meltagunners, one normal biker and a Multi-Melta attack bike). The last squad's meltagunner pens and I fail the flickerfield save. He rolls a 1 for damage result. Weapon destroyed. That meltagunner dies as well. I told my friend it was payback for an earlier game where the only thing I killed of his the whole game was a Psyker Battle Squad.
That is so Epic! That reminds me of an apocalypse game where I proceeded to make a Baneblade go nuclear with 1 broadside. I then was told I wouldn't be able to do it again. I almost succeed in making the second Baneblade go nuclear but wrecked it instead with one broadside. That's one thing that makes this game so much fun all the sure randomness and epicness you can do.
Just came across your blog today and I must say I'm very impressed. The colour scheme you've chosen for your DE works very well and all of the models are painted to an exceptional quality. How about a full army shot?
The glyphs are the epitomy of what makes your painting so amazing. They're not just cool squiggly lines, no, you actually thought about the glyhps would represent and thus they add that much more character to the Razorwing. Also, is it just me or are your edge highlights looker particular clean this time? Amazing work as always.
One of my favorite things about P&M blogs is witnessing the progression of the ideas and skills of the author. It's amazing to be able to watch someone do good work, and then to see them get better at whatever it is that they do over time. With that in mind, the razorwing is fantastic. Please keep up the work
Very well said Prime. Going back to the start of this blog it's almost funny to read about John's original trepidation uncertainty, yet here now, awed by a speed and quality that is born wholly out of being confident in an established and practiced scheme.
@Eggroll: There's a full army photo somewhere in the middle of the thread when I just barely hit 2000 points. I've probably got about 2600 now and I'll see about taking another full army photo soon.
Thanks for the kind words guys! But Dark_Gear's comment:
Dark_Gear wrote:Very well said Prime. Going back to the start of this blog it's almost funny to read about John's original trepidation uncertainty, yet here now, awed by a speed and quality that is born wholly out of being confident in an established and practiced scheme.
brought to mind the image of myself casually making completed models appear with a gentle sweep of my arm, and snorting out the odd Razorwing or two when I sneezed. That's a minor superpower I'd like to have. Minus the sneezing bit. That would hurt.
And what you described there (the painful sneezing of a Razorwing) reminded me of the scene in Total Recall when Ah-nold pulls out a golf ball sized location beacon out of his nose. Ouch!
Lol! If you can snort the odd razor wing out, then I'd like the same power, then if I squeeze hard maybe I can get a few few Landraiders out of my A***! Have to be Nurgle ones of course
monkeyh wrote:Lol! If you can snort the odd razor wing out, then I'd like the same power, then if I squeeze hard maybe I can get a few few Landraiders out of my A***! Have to be Nurgle ones of course
monkeyh wrote:Lol! If you can snort the odd razor wing out, then I'd like the same power, then if I squeeze hard maybe I can get a few few Landraiders out of my A***! Have to be Nurgle ones of course
Here's the jetfighter running pre-flight checks, awaiting it's missile load-out. I'm thinking 2x Mono-scythe and 2x Necrotoxin. I've rolled out my usual Milliput pancakes for the flying base but they're going to need to dry out overnight before I can start work on the base.
Also, I just found out today that my couch is a tolerable spot for photographing large models.
Yeah, you must not have any cats. Trust me, I've seen so much furniture ruined by them, even when declawed, they find a way to get the job done with the back claws.
By the way, I've always wondered how you do the weathering.
Joining this plog late, but just wanted to add to the general chorus of 'awesomes' and 'fantastics' about everything, really refreshing paint scheme, pulled off perfectly, i shall take my place with the rest of the envious throng in watching for updates. =]
Regarding the loadout, did you magnetize the front gun in order to swap it out with the splinter cannon. It's a much butter option to use as it's range matches up perfectly with the wing mounted Lances. As for the missiles, stick to the 4 standard ones. For one thing, they're "free" and since you'll mostly be shooting infantry with those missiles, not vehicles, you'll be wounding on a 2+ anyways. Saving the the 10 points by not buying the missiles pays for the Splinter cannon
Speaking from experience and testing - there is basically no point at all to running the Necrotoxins.
Anything you would normally fire the necrotoxins at, the Monoscythes will be wounding on a 2+ anyway, and anything the Monsocythes aren't wounding on a 2+, their save will likely be high enough to nullify the extra wounds / something you don't really want to waste the shot on anyway.
Monoscythes are best generally wounding on 2s with the ability to hurt light vehicles, followed by Shatters, which give you the re-rolls to wound and reasonable vehicle punching power.
This leaves the Necrotoxins, which are ONLY useful against troops, and cost +10 pts to wound on the same value.
Either all Monoscythes, or if you really want 2 MS and 2 Shatters.
I'd personally reccomend giving flickers, night shields, then the splinter cannon, then maybe upgrade the missiles if need be.
@Swordwind: I didn't think it was that uncommon. At least on Google Image Search! I find the clear canopy and the pilot are a nice focal point for the model.
@warpcrafter: The paint chipping is done by using a small piece of pluck and pick foam to dab on small patches of dark gray. The key point is to varnish the model before you start dabbing on the chips so you can easily wipe off any excess with rubbing alcohol to find tune the pattern. The rust effects are done with MIG weathering powders. The mixture is Old Rust with a touch of Standard Rust.
@J-paint: Feel free to drop by anytime. I've actually been following your Ad-Mech blog (in lurker mode) and have gotten some good ideas for expanding my own Ad-Mech army.
@All the Armchair Archons : Thanks for the tactical tips! I'm thinking of taking the Necrotoxins not because of the 2+ to wound but because of the pinning check they force. If someone spreads out their models it seems like you might not actually kill that many. So the Necrotoxins are that additional annoyance I can fling and my opponent. Plus there's always the dream of that game where I pin a 700 point deathstar.
Anything that you would want to pin, i.e. big nasty combat units, are either going to be Ld10 or Fearless majority of the time
No point in trying to pin them at all
Also, beware of the Razorwing becoming too expensive. Once you start buying various upgrades you will be paying close on 200 points for something that is still Av10. Granted its not open topped, but it is still gonna get shot a lot.
I've played both with and against Razorwings and honestly you're only ever going to get to shoot it's weapons once or twice per game. Especially in the current meta with the abundance of missile launcher long fangs, psycannon/assault cannon spam, etc
I'm with last soul here, tend to go slightly fuzzy when it comes to in depth rules talk, just here to marvel at the pic-ee-a-tures. And lol Jon, see if i cant force you out of lurker mode at some point...might ask you a direct question or something =p
..And only just realised you are the same mechanicum Jon whos ad mech i drooled over on here for ages! Link is now in my inspirational links part of my thread. At the risk of derailing, can we expect to see any more goodness for the Omnissiah in the future?
@CalasTyphon216: I'm well aware of the upgrade trap on the Dark Eldar flyers. That's why I don't plan on upgrading to the Splinter Cannon. With range 36" I only expect it to fire once per game. I'm not even sure I'll invest in a flickerfield. I probably will end up springing for it since the Jetfighter can't hide behind the flotilla like my Ravagers. Anyway I've found that the most effective way of finding out what works is to give it a go. This is coming from a frequent practitioner of theory-hammer and math-hammer.
@LostSoulCasey'sLaw: At first I thought about keeping the thread completely P&M focused but I recently decided to let more tactics creep in. The rationale being that what I build and paint is greatly affected by its tabletop performance. I am seldom motivated to paint models that I have not intention of using at least semi-regularly in game. The other reason is that people can ignore all the tactical techno-babble and enjoy the scenery.
@J-paint: I do intend to take some better photos of that army at some point and petition the Dakka gods to resurrect the thread. However, in all likelihood that's a long way off since I'm fully engaged in Dark Eldar right now. I have some Forgeworld Chaos Renegades lying neglected on my desk that I bought a few months ago with the intention of converting them into Skittari Storm Troopers.
I see all these people talking about the low life-expectancy of their razorwings, but I've found that generally with its splinter cannon / flickerfield / night shield is reasonably survivable, tending to get 3-4 rounds of shooting and even surviving entire games.
Then again this may have something to do with folk being more concerned with the 2 Talos, 6-9 Grotesques and 20 wracks bearing down on them....
Mechanicum Jon wrote:@LostSoulCasey'sLaw: At first I thought about keeping the thread completely P&M focused but I recently decided to let more tactics creep in. The rationale being that what I build and paint is greatly affected by its tabletop performance. I am seldom motivated to paint models that I have not intention of using at least semi-regularly in game. The other reason is that people can ignore all the tactical techno-babble and enjoy the scenery.
Understandable, it's just as easy to ignore all the tactics and look at the models. If i played Dark Eldar i'd no doubt be interested.
A quick tip for modelling success. Don't listen to the Legend of Zelda 25th Anniversary Music CD while trying to build anything. Not even anything as simple as gluing down slabs of putty to a flying base. Some of the medleys brought back such a rush of memories that I became completely over excited and unable to concentrate! Before I knew it I had glued several slabs down wrong and then broken them in half while trying to pry them up! It would probably be quite comical for people to watch me try to build a Raider while listening to that. I probably contrive to break it in half and fling it out the window!
Still, I finally managed to sand and smooth everything out to salvage the base. The faux slate slabs on the base took as much Milliput as I usually use for a whole squad! Now the base just needs a few washes and some moss to complete it.
@Ovion: I'll try the Razorwing out in a game soon and report back on whether mine turns out to be a flying barrel of gunpowder like my other vehicles or more reliable like yours.
When it has been shot, thanks to the flickers and not being open topped its been slightly more resilient than my raiders.
But the more I think on it, the more I feel people ignore it, prefering to put the heavy firepower into the pair of Talos striding towards them and my raiders / venoms.
Maybe it's just the local meta, but most people don't seem to think it's a threat, apart from one Tau fellow who hadn't really played since 3rd and said 'that's the biggest thing on your side of the field, it must be a threat, lets shoot everything at that'.
'course it meant his broadsides and hammerheads didn't down my transports, and I was able to get my Talos up into things, but hey
Problem with the Razorwing, honestly, is due to the fact that the Ravager, regardless of weapon configuration, is much much more points-efficient than any other Heavy Support choice. Also, due to the reduced ability to spam dark lances, and an otherwise lack of long range anti tank, not to mention it's additional cost (half of another Ravager), the Razorwing suffers in comparison
That said, not being open topped does help, although in reality Av10 is piss-easy to kill no matter what
Also you can never get a cover save on it
CalasTyphon216 wrote:Problem with the Razorwing, honestly, is due to the fact that the Ravager, regardless of weapon configuration, is much much more points-efficient than any other Heavy Support choice. Also, due to the reduced ability to spam dark lances, and an otherwise lack of long range anti tank, not to mention it's additional cost (half of another Ravager), the Razorwing suffers in comparison
That said, not being open topped does help, although in reality Av10 is piss-easy to kill no matter what
Also you can never get a cover save on it
If he moves it fast enough he can get a cover save
But yeah, the razorwing is too tall... just like the vendettas/valks, and the stormchicken... Luckily, this razorwing is too pretty to be shot down
If you have a lot of AT in your list the Razorwing is good for AH due to being able to swap out the D-lances for disintegrators for free and starting out with 4 str6 large blast templates.
CalasTyphon216 wrote:Problem with the Razorwing, honestly, is due to the fact that the Ravager, regardless of weapon configuration, is much much more points-efficient than any other Heavy Support choice. Also, due to the reduced ability to spam dark lances, and an otherwise lack of long range anti tank, not to mention it's additional cost (half of another Ravager), the Razorwing suffers in comparison
That said, not being open topped does help, although in reality Av10 is piss-easy to kill no matter what
Also you can never get a cover save on it
If he moves it fast enough he can get a cover save
But yeah, the razorwing is too tall... just like the vendettas/valks, and the stormchicken... Luckily, this razorwing is too pretty to be shot down
mate if he moves it fast enough to get a cover save he ain't gonna be able to shoot it, which sort of defeats the whole purpose of taking a Razorwing?
Mechanicum Jon wrote:A quick tip for modelling success. Don't listen to the Legend of Zelda 25th Anniversary Music CD while trying to build anything. Not even anything as simple as gluing down slabs of putty to a flying base. Some of the medleys brought back such a rush of memories that I became completely over excited and unable to concentrate! Before I knew it I had glued several slabs down wrong and then broken them in half while trying to pry them up! It would probably be quite comical for people to watch me try to build a Raider while listening to that. I probably contrive to break it in half and fling it out the window!
Haha, you and me both.
Anyway the base looks great, as do all your models. Could we get a full army shot that will look spectacular.
Ever since I saw pictures of the Necrotoxin Missile online I've wanted to paint one up as toxin-filled clear warhead. I considered painting the missile casing partially blue to match the rest of the army. But decided not to because it didn't seem like these one shot weapons would be kept around long enough to get beat up like the rest of my Kabal's wargear. Having it blue but not weathered would look like I had just forgotten to weather it.
In response to the Razorwing council of war that seems to have formed in this thread, I'd summarize that I see the Razorwing primarily as a anti-infantry model with bonus anti-tank. It is unique in the book in providing truly long range anti-infantry firepower in the form of large blasts which makes your opponent have to think about spreading out (leaving them more vulnerable to a refused flank). However, in almost all but the most specifically constructed lists I'd honestly rather have a Ravager and a Venom, which cost about the same as a Jetfighter with two special missiles and a field. That being said, the model is too cool not to use and while it's not among the "take as default option" options in the Codex, I am optimistic of having great fun with it.
@ceorron: "Master, I calculate a 90% probability that ceorron would be pleased to view an image showing the entirety of your collection. Analysis indicates that the camera item can be used to acquire such an image." That being said, I didn't find Fi nearly as annoying as a lot of people seem to have. (For people who haven't played Skyward Sword, Fi is a companion notorious for constantly giving Captain Obvious hints during the game).
If you really want to play the Razorwing competitively, I advocate taking 2-3 of the pretty things. If only to screw with your opponent's fire discipline
Automatically Appended Next Post: And because it looks really cool
CalasTyphon216 wrote:Problem with the Razorwing, honestly, is due to the fact that the Ravager, regardless of weapon configuration, is much much more points-efficient than any other Heavy Support choice. Also, due to the reduced ability to spam dark lances, and an otherwise lack of long range anti tank, not to mention it's additional cost (half of another Ravager), the Razorwing suffers in comparison
That said, not being open topped does help, although in reality Av10 is piss-easy to kill no matter what
Also you can never get a cover save on it
If he moves it fast enough he can get a cover save
But yeah, the razorwing is too tall... just like the vendettas/valks, and the stormchicken... Luckily, this razorwing is too pretty to be shot down
mate if he moves it fast enough to get a cover save he ain't gonna be able to shoot it, which sort of defeats the whole purpose of taking a Razorwing?
You never said it had to be able to fire
Anyways, Jon I love that missle it reminds me of the warheads from the recent G.I. Joe movie.
Long time, no speak, but Jon, this is still frickin' amazing.
Love the Wracks and I love the Razorwing model, your work on it, the base and cannot wait to see it finished.
Beautiful work as ever man.
Also, in-case you didn't know, this is the most exalted thread of all time...
I'm blaming Alfndrate for making me repaint my missile. His reference to the G.I. Joe movie led me to look up the warheads on Google Images and I decided that I liked the all silver look better. It favorably reminds me of the Chemical Missile from the Command and Conquer series. It does however also make me feel old when I realize that I haven't played any of those games in almost a decade!
"MISSILE LAUNCH DETECTED". "Oh craaaaaaap!"
@Swordwind: While all of us are babbling away about reversing the phase of inverse tachyon beams and the like, you get straight to the point. This is after all a P&M blog!
@CalasTyphon216: My opponents tend to shoot at the prettiest things first. Which is why my Wracks generally survive entire games with no problem. If someone shoots at my Wracks first I'll know they have unusual tastes !
@Just Dave: I had no idea! While an internet forum may be a perfect example of a "the points don't matter" situation, it's still awesome and incredibly gratifying! It just surprises me since there are many, many other amazing threads that have been running for way longer. I must have just rolled a 6 for the Dakka algorithm! As Kanye would say, "THE MOST EXALTED THREAD OF ALL TIME!"
Preferring the all silver look, much cleaner looking, and just going to slide in a compliment about the awesome idea of the see through missile in both incarnations.
I'm afraid all this dark eldar talk is proving to be quite enticing
...twiddles thumbs.....
......
...........
and oh dear, I seem to have bought and assembled a unit of harlequins in the last 20 seconds, *feigns shocked/surprised face*
Played a army with 3 razorwings today
He killed every single missile launcher in my army on turn 1
All 3 survived the game
He tabled my cheese Wolf list in like 3 turns
I hereby rescind every criticism I've made about Razorwings :p
The Razorwing takes flight! I took a whole bunch or pictures that I'm still sorting through, including some of the underside with the missile armament. I'll get those posted tomorrow. It feels great to have completed the model, but funnily enough the bits I'm happiest with are the Necrotoxin Missiles (which you can barely see from tabletop height)!
@J-Paint: Well, giving in to temptation like that is what led to the Great Fall of the Eldar, the birth of Slannesh and this blog. So it can't be all bad.
@CalasTyphon216: You just needed to get up close and smack those planes down with a Powerfist or the like! That's one of the top humorous mental images I have of a 40k situation. It's second only to imagining a Vindicator shooting down a Razorwing which has turbo-boosted.
@spyguyyoda: As I said, the missiles were my favorite bits. I'd like to go back and magnetize them someday just so I have an excuse to remove them once they're fired and show them off!
Here are the rest of the photos of the Jetfighter. I managed to take these with a bit less glare so now we can see the pilot. Comments are much appreciated as always! Also, for anyone just joining this thread there are some more photos of the Razorwing "in action" over terrain on the previous page and some WIP shots of the hull before weathering two pages back.
If GW ever releases a Voidraven I'll be very tempted to pick up another Razorwing as well so I have a pair of fighter escorts!
Finally, the signature weapons of the Jetfighter:
@Moltar and IceAngel: Thanks for the encouragement guys!
I've been thinking about taking an updated full army photo, but every time I've gone down to the FLGS recently it's been really busy so there hasn't really been room for me to lay everything out nicely. So, as a stop gap to satisfy the requests that have been posted, I've taken a picture of the army as it currently displayed in the shop cabinet. Admittedly, it's not a great photo, but it does give an idea of how much room the army now covers! So with that, I present The Kabal of the Drowned Gardens at 2600pts:
I finally sat down to tally up exactly how many points of Dark Eldar I've painted. The coolest thing I discovered through this exercise is that by taking a Ravager out I've actually got a legal, fully painted, 2500 point list, which was completely unplanned. Except for the fact that I've now got four heavy support options, everything else I've painted can be made to fit completely within a force organization chart.
And to round out today's post, some random photos I took of Sara and the Wracks that came out nicely.
Nice army picture. I didn't realize how many vehicles you'd put together. They look really cool altogether. Is there anything left you haven't put together and painted for the dark eldar?
*Seriously though, that looks brilliant. This is easily one of my favourite P&M blogs/armies I've seen on Dakka, it's original, inspiring and really well done.
The Scourges are still my favourite...
Great job, I didn't think DE could pull of a light teal. But i think you did it the best any one could ever do. Keep it up and I hope we see more from you.
I tried the Razorwing out over the weekend and it did...ok. On the positive side, despite my predictions of its immediate destruction on turn of arrival it actually didn't get shot down during any of my games. I think that was mainly because my opponents were much more worried about the rest of my army once the Razorwing had shot off its missiles. On the negative side it's kill tally over three games consisted of two Devastators, one Tactical Marine, three Lootas and three Orks. It was a combination of either me rolling really poorly for scatter distance or my opponents rolling really well for armor and cover saves.
It did successfully carry out its mission of looking pretty though. I got several nice complements and there were even a couple people who bent over to look at the missiles without any prompting from me!
Ovion wrote:You seem decent enough at conversions and kitbashing, you should be able to make your own. I also think the monoscythes would look better if you did the 'gems' in the same goldybrass as the warhead.
A Voidraven kitbash would be rather more ambitious than the conversions I've pulled off! Not to say I wouldn't give it a go. But I tend to limit my efforts to relatively recent models GW has put out that I'm not thrilled about. It dodges the risk of being halfway through a project and seeing a preview of an absolutely amazing new or updated official version that kills your motivation to finish.
The gems are actually gold. It seems that I gave them a bit too heavy of a turquoise wash so they look silver!
Swordwind wrote:Oh man, them all together just look beast. Hope that someday I get as good at painting as you do.
I've found that, for myself at least, more than 50% of a paint job's success comes from finding the right colors and identifying a few techniques that work well on everything. About 25% has to do with painting neatly. The final bits are a mixture of intangibles like patience, talent and luck (I refuse to believe that dotting pupils is all about skill).
J-paint wrote:Looks absolutely stunning all together! And assuming your not going for a voidraven kitbash, whats next on the horizon?
I've moved on from the big Razorwing to more of the little ones. I've found that I really need a couple more flocks in my beast unit to give it just that extra edge in combat.
IceAngel wrote:Nice army picture. I didn't realize how many vehicles you'd put together. They look really cool altogether. Is there anything left you haven't put together and painted for the dark eldar?
Thanks! There's still a long list of things I haven't put together and even more I haven't painted! To name three major units Wyches, the Talos and Mandrakes. Although I'll be concentrating on rounding out the army lists I have planned before starting on alternate builds using those models.
Just Dave wrote:Looks crap. *Seriously though, that looks brilliant. This is easily one of my favourite P&M blogs/armies I've seen on Dakka, it's original, inspiring and really well done.
The Scourges are still my favourite...
The Scourges are also still my favorite unit. However, favorite model has got to be Sara the Haemonculus. I used her (as a Haemonculus Ancient with a Flesh Gauntlet since we were just messing around) and her squad of Incubi in a game over the weekend. They came charging out of a portal into a unit of Death Company with a Chaplain. Only a couple Marines and the Chaplain survive that turn although I also lose about half the Incubi. The second turn Sara manages to stick the Chaplain through the eyepiece with the Gauntlet's needle and pops him!
PapaPiggy wrote:Great job, I didn't think DE could pull of a light teal. But i think you did it the best any one could ever do. Keep it up and I hope we see more from you.
Hi, welcome to the blog and thanks. The teal was really a happy accident with me just hitting on the right color after a lot of trial and error!
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:Dude, that is unreal. I hope you are proud of yourself 'cause that is an amazing accomplishment! Heavy props!
"As long as you are dedicated to your task, even a metal column can be polished into a needle."
kitch102 wrote:That's awesome! Now count up the number of shots you get per turn and split them down by poisoned / dark light / blast Or you could just summarise with... 'lots'
Yeah sublime man. Some excellent work there. You have one picture perfect army and done in short time too. The blue and red sails make it all look very grand and unified.
I could imagine walking around with those on the front line hearing nothing but the sound of humming, screaming grav-engines as they close in on the prey.
Once again, really great looking minis. I never get bored of your choice of colours, they just 'pop' and really suit the dark eldar. Looking forward to seeing what comes next.
I decided to works on some odds and ends to round out the army for a while. The first of these being two more bases of Flying Rippers (used as Razorwing Flocks) to help give a needed extra edge to my Beastmasters. I also put together another large flying base towards my goal of having all my vehicles on scenic bases. Going to need a lot of Milliput!
@LostSoulCasey'sLaw: The quote is from a Chinese fable about the poet Li Bai. A quick Google search of the terms "Li Bai" and "needle" seemed to work fine. The following page seemed to have the gist of it:
http://chinesestoryonline.com/fairy-tale/502-tie-chu-cheng-zhen.html Although the quote is widely recognized and I heard the fable as a child I don't actually know who wrote it so I can't give you a proper source to quote!
@ceorron: Thanks! I hope to get an even better photo uploaded in the near future!
@Hits_the_spot: I'm just waiting for someone to cry foul at all the "turquoise spam," or complain about me having no skill since I'm painting in "NetColors."
@Hits_the_spot: I'm just waiting for someone to cry foul at all the "turquoise spam," or complain about me having no skill since I'm painting in "NetColors."
Ahem.. well, if we must..
Whats wrong with you!? light blue? such an godawful colour and you put it on EVERYTHING! Can't you paint anything besides that? oh yeah, sorry. I forgot that you can't paint since you use ''NetColours''. that's even lazier than dipping! A paralyzed 90-year old hamster with pnumonia and MS disease in an electric wheelchair without rubbertires going down a flight of stairs paints better than you!
there, done.
Seriously though, great work as always M-J. Keep it up.
Hi all! I just joined Dakka specifically to compliment you on your army. It's wonderfully inspiring. So much in fact that I've decided to start up a Dark Eldar army. Maybe I'll start my own blog on its creation. Been doing the hobby for about 6 years and still going strong. Keep up the amazing work and thank you for all the inspiration!!
Mechanicum Jon wrote:@LostSoulCasey'sLaw: The quote is from a Chinese fable about the poet Li Bai. A quick Google search of the terms "Li Bai" and "needle" seemed to work fine. The following page seemed to have the gist of it:
http://chinesestoryonline.com/fairy-tale/502-tie-chu-cheng-zhen.html Although the quote is widely recognized and I heard the fable as a child I don't actually know who wrote it so I can't give you a proper source to quote!
Thanks for the reply and pm! I don't think it's something that would be recognised in my corner of the world but it's very interesting so i'll be doing some reading.
Symbolic wrote:Hi all! I just joined Dakka specifically to compliment you on your army. It's wonderfully inspiring. So much in fact that I've decided to start up a Dark Eldar army. Maybe I'll start my own blog on its creation. Been doing the hobby for about 6 years and still going strong. Keep up the amazing work and thank you for all the inspiration!!
I just played the most close fought game of 40K I've ever been in last night! It was so close that it inspired me to do my first battle report! Watch this space!
STC_LogisEngine wrote:Ahem.. well, if we must..
Whats wrong with you!? light blue? such an godawful colour and you put it on EVERYTHING! Can't you paint anything besides that? oh yeah, sorry. I forgot that you can't paint since you use ''NetColours''. that's even lazier than dipping! A paralyzed 90-year old hamster with pnumonia and MS disease in an electric wheelchair without rubbertires going down a flight of stairs paints better than you!
there, done.
Seriously though, great work as always M-J. Keep it up.
Now that's more like the hobby I know and love!
Symbolic wrote:Hi all! I just joined Dakka specifically to compliment you on your army. It's wonderfully inspiring. So much in fact that I've decided to start up a Dark Eldar army. Maybe I'll start my own blog on its creation. Been doing the hobby for about 6 years and still going strong. Keep up the amazing work and thank you for all the inspiration!!
Wow, like LostSoulCasey'sLaw said, that's a high complement!
monkeyh wrote:Your army looks awesome.
No, you look awesome!
@LostSoulCasey'sLaw: Doh! I meant so say, "is widely recognized over here in Hong Kong." I'm pretty sure the quote is widely recognized in China and among Chinese but not really anywhere else!
Mechanicum Jon wrote:I just played the most close fought game of 40K I've ever been in last night! It was so close that it inspired me to do my first battle report! Watch this space!
@LostSoulCasey'sLaw: Doh! I meant so say, "is widely recognized over here in Hong Kong." I'm pretty sure the quote is widely recognized in China and among Chinese but not really anywhere else!
Looking forward to reading your battle report!
Aha, yeh i figured that is what you meant but i thought i'd slip in a clarification just in case you though i was a dumbass!
How could you use rippers for your Razorwing swarms? Don't you realise that that would confuse little kids and make them buy Tyranids instead of DE? You've just lost GW some sales!
I just spent most of my free time over the weekend putting together the first part of my first battle report ever! So this is a shameless plug over to that part of Dakka! All comments, criticisms and tips are greatly appreciated. Or just let me know if you're interested in it since I'm doing it in lieu of my usual P&M routine.
Here's the start of the post: "The best games of 40k are the ones where victory is decided after seven hard fought turns by the tattered remnants of both armies and the final few critical dice rolls. I just played one of those ideal games a couple of days ago, which motivated me to finally try my hand at writing up a battle report. "
Here's a non-spoiler sample diagram of my first movement phase. Note the glorious quality you can get with Microsoft Word!
and since this is a P&M forum, here is my friend's blinged out Hawk Lords Command Squad from the army he played against me with. He has no time to paint so he got it commissioned, and it looks great! It's a joy to play with two fully painted armies on a table full of great terrain!
Just thought you'd like to know I found your blog earlier this week.
I started from the beginning, and by the end, I got turquoise fatigue. Twenty four pages of this over a few days will do that to you. ;@)
I also am someone who joined, to be able to congratulate you on a beautiful set of models.
I got my first army models in November, and started painting in January. And yes, it's a DE army. I hate how everyone does DE as black with highlights, and have also opted for a different approach. Sadly, I started putting the army together before I bought the Codex, thus have ended up with some... interesting screw-ups. Not to mention my Lelith Hesperax came out a bit deformed. I got annoyed at this, mostly because i was staring at the model for weeks, thinking "This doesn't look quite right."Then I found out that she WAS not right. But now, she's a mostly finished conversion.
I also messed up with my unit of Kabalite Warriors. What can I say? I thought they would look better if the ten of them had three Shredders, two Blasters, a Splinter Cannon, a Dark Lance with only two Splinter Rifles in the mix. Thus, I have a unit that points up into the realms of the Space Marines..... However, they had already been in the starting phase of painting, which was lucky, because the colour of choice for them was purple. So now, they are the elite Praetorian Guard.
But this is all about your army, so...
I have to say that Sara was quite an eye-opener for me. You, in my opinion, painted her far better than the folks at GW did with their standard model. And the way you put on the Wrack arms was genius.
The way the runes are put on the vehicles are also great, because you seem to place them in such a way to try and break up the large surface of mono-colour. The sails are cleverly done, too.
The Neurotoxin Missiles look great, and I think that the GI Joe style works better. As does the washed gold on the edges of the wings. Very atmospheric.
The Scourges are truly exquisite. And you showed me to paint the flaming things with the wings OFF. Could have done with knowing that ages ago... The wings are brilliantly done, and are artforms in themselves.
I would say more, but can't remember anything off the top of my head.
Keep going with this, because it is awesome. Not just because you are showing us your great talent, but are willing to let others in on your secrets. Also, it acts as a morale boost for those of us who choose to have a more coloured DE army. It has helped to keep me going, that's for sure.
Cameron Baum wrote:I also am someone who joined, to be able to congratulate you on a beautiful set of models.
Whoa another, i think Lego and Yak should be paying you to paint now, Jon! Looks like you've gone from being a Dakka phenomenon to an internet phenomenon, congrats, dude!
Cameron Baum wrote:I also am someone who joined, to be able to congratulate you on a beautiful set of models.
Whoa another, i think Lego and Yak should be paying you to paint now, Jon! Looks like you've gone from being a Dakka phenomenon to an internet phenomenon, congrats, dude!
You could say that. At work, I've been decorating my locker with the pictures from the boxes of models, and one guy had commented that he thought that the black with coloured edges was the best look for them. That annoyed me, and on Monday, I spent the evening on Google Search, to find examples of him being wrong. I never got past page one or two of the search, because I had found an image, followed it to this blog. I then went to the beginning, and read it from the beginning. By Friday, I had managed to catch up completely.
The thing about this blog is that it inspires you to not give three brass monkeys on an Arabian stall about other's opinions of the Dark Eldar. As it is, I'm working my army into something else, to get away from the PFP and other stuff you have. I'm also glad Jon had shied away from festooning frakking skulls on his ships and stuff, because its something that annoys the socks off of me. I mean... does EVERYTHING that GW makes HAVE to have skulls plastered over it? Freud would have a serious field day over it...
One thing that does surprise me about his army is the lack of special characters in it. No Medusae, Ur-Ghuls, or anything like that.
He might want to consider Lelith Hesperax in the mix, only being mentioned because I painted mine in Hawk Turquoise and Ice Blue, and looks pretty good in those colours. It would be interesting to see if he decides to do any special conversions to compliment his army and his idea of it...
And I'm confused... Lego paint their bricks now? And since when were Yaks into Warhammer 40K?
Ovion wrote:Since when was an Ur-Ghul or Medusae a special character?
Hmmm.... Depends on how we define "Special Character," I guess... Remember, I'm still learning all of this, and have not played the game, just decided to put an army together...
Although I think we can all agree that Sara is a special character.
Ruleswise a Special Character is a unique named character within the book.
The Special Characters within the Dark Eldar Codex are:
Asdrubael Vect, Lady Malys, Drazhar, Leilith Hesprax, Urien Rakarth, Duke Sliscus, Kheradruakh and Baron Sathonyx.
The members of the Court are just a regular complex squad.
Sara is a very well converted model, but is a standard Haemonculus from memory.
True... But there are other special characters you've not mentioned... those that people create themselves.
Thinking about it, I think that Jon would best serve himself with unique characters to field command over his army. After all, what - and who - led them to only want millennia old equipment in the first place? And what led them to turquoise in the first place? There is a lot of scope and potential right there, and from it could spawn new Archons we know nothing of, not to mention his court, Arena champions from the fighting areas of his part of the Dark City... There is endless possibility in that.
Not to mention that the Codex drops names, but does nothing to expand on them, like the two in the Succubus entry. They could be fleshed out, and added to your army with no concerns...
Like I said, ruleswise those are the Dark Eldar Codex's Special Characters.
We can all create our own Characters though.
I intend to name most of my models, this makes the individuals, interesting and different, and in some cases characters, BUT they are technically not Special Characters.
Just to let you know, you're talking to someone who started building an army before having the Codex. Mind you, I have yet to have the 40K rulebook.
I personally believe that the best army is one created by yourself. I'm working out rank structures and everything. I also thought about naming the individuals, like you.
And Sara's awesomeness makes her capable of commanding entire legions of DE, and anyone who says otherwise, well, she'll send her Wracks after you.
Wonder what Jons' Mandrakes would look like, as a random thought?
Cameron Baum wrote:Just to let you know, you're talking to someone who started building an army before having the Codex. Mind you, I have yet to have the 40K rulebook.
I personally believe that the best army is one created by yourself. I'm working out rank structures and everything. I also thought about naming the individuals, like you.
And Sara's awesomeness makes her capable of commanding entire legions of DE, and anyone who says otherwise, well, she'll send her Wracks after you.
Wonder what Jons' Mandrakes would look like, as a random thought?
This is true, but against the rules. If we could do this the world would be a much better place
Sounds like you'd be interested in the fluff section Cameron, you should check it out. I should really read more of it but my attention span is pretty bad most of the time. Finally got the Caledonian bit finished from Infinity: Human Sphere. It's only been two and a half months! I'm very into fluff myself, i've written a few things some of which are on Dakka but unfinished. I find that converting as many models as you can is the best way to get the character across without forcing people to read loads of blurb. Although it's nice to have it on paper as well. I personally never consider building a miniature/army/gang without forming a deep story with a few twists, mysteries and important characters.
But that's enough off topic, if you have any fluff to share, Cam i'd love to read it just send me a private message.
On topic and speaking of conversions. What are the chances of a Titan, Jon? It would certainly make my day, week, month. Maybe we could find a way to help funding such an endeavor. http://www.kickstart.org/ would be the perfect thing for the job. I'd pledge.
Wow, while I was busy writing the battle report Cameron Baum and Ovion seem to have blown up the thread with comments, Enigma Crisis couldn't even get a helpful word in!
Also, LostSoulCasey'sLaw said this:
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote: On topic and speaking of conversions. What are the chances of a Titan, Jon? It would certainly make my day, week, month. Maybe we could find a way to help funding such an endeavor. http://www.kickstart.org/ would be the perfect thing for the job. I'd pledge.
I find it really, really awesome that you would be willing to put down money just to see me paint up something I'd love to anyway. To be honest, I wouldn't probably ever buy a Titan on my own since it would get used maybe once a year over here, the gaming scene just isn't big enough. However, I'm really not sure what kind of traction that would get since there probably aren't that many people crazy enough about my stuff to put money down just to read about it and look at pretty pictures, like you seem to be.
Community funded Forgeworld Resin Crack (TM) is very tempting though. Maybe, just mabye we could try for a Tantalus (shipping would be free since my FLGS makes a monthly order)? I've got a bunch of spare Warriors and Raider hangers on that could be used to just cover the thing in crew! What do you guys think? Gaaaah! Now LostSoulCasey'sLaw has got me entertaining delusions of grandeur!
Now to get back off topic, I've put up Turn 2 of the Battle Report for your enjoyment:
Here's a random picture of my Ravagers I took yesterday to help illustrate the battle report! I've now officially decided to name them "Snap," "Crackle," and "Pop" because of what seems to happen to them every game! Or maybe something like "Ss'gnap," "Kerakel,"and "P'oph" to disguise the reference a bit. At least it's more subtle than a lot of GW's names!
@Cameron Baum: Thanks for taking the time to write those comprehensive posts! It's really flattering since it seems like you went through the thread with a fine toothed comb! Just for curiosity's sake, what term were you searching for on Google?
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote: Whoa another, i think Lego and Yak should be paying you to paint now, Jon! Looks like you've gone from being a Dakka phenomenon to an internet phenomenon, congrats, dude!
For some reason the "whoa another" made me really lol. It gave me the mental image of gophers popping up in a field and surprising someone. As for Lego and Yak paying me anything I hope they sometimes lurk around and like what they see! But I can always dream right? I mean the reason I started the blog in the first place was to break into the lucrative niche of miniature wargames internet forum posting to rake in the big bucks!
Ovion wrote:Sara is a very well converted model, but is a standard Haemonculus from memory. I need to name all my guys tbh.
Don't let Sara hear you say "standard Haemonculus" or she'll turn you into a "standard Wrack." However, "very well converted" would probably be taken as high praise among Haemonculi! When I used to play Dark Angels back in 2nd Edition even my Squad Sargents had names. Thinking back I still remember a lot of them, Uriel (Tactical Squad), Danjal (Assault Squad), Barakiel (Devastators). Of course, it's a lot easier to rip off angel's names than it is to come up with decent names for Dark Eldar!
Capitansolstice wrote:This is true, but against the rules. If we could do this the world would be a much better place
That's what some of the newer pen and paper Role Playing Games are for! I'd recommend "Do: Pilgrims of the Flying Temple" as a fun introduction (it also ties in with LostSoulCasey'sLaw's quote above since the game got funded on Kickstarter)!
By 'standard haemonculus' I meant the unit entry in the codex.
You could always try to scratch build your own mini-titan.
You're welcome to steal my idea, I can even show you what to get to make it Or come up with your own.
But I'm with you ultimately, something that's only going to see play rarely, and is otherwise going to be a display piece, that will take months of work to build and paint - I don't want to sink THAT much money into it.
Mechanicum Jon wrote:Also, LostSoulCasey'sLaw said this:
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote: On topic and speaking of conversions. What are the chances of a Titan, Jon? It would certainly make my day, week, month. Maybe we could find a way to help funding such an endeavor. http://www.kickstart.org/ would be the perfect thing for the job. I'd pledge.
I find it really, really awesome that you would be willing to put down money just to see me paint up something I'd love to anyway. To be honest, I wouldn't probably ever buy a Titan on my own since it would get used maybe once a year over here, the gaming scene just isn't big enough. However, I'm really not sure what kind of traction that would get since there probably aren't that many people crazy enough about my stuff to put money down just to read about it and look at pretty pictures, like you seem to be. Community funded Forgeworld Resin Crack (TM) is very tempting though. Maybe, just mabye we could try for a Tantalus (shipping would be free since my FLGS makes a monthly order)? I've got a bunch of spare Warriors and Raider hangers on that could be used to just cover the thing in crew! What do you guys think? Gaaaah! Now LostSoulCasey'sLaw has got me entertaining delusions of grandeur!
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote: Whoa another, i think Lego and Yak should be paying you to paint now, Jon! Looks like you've gone from being a Dakka phenomenon to an internet phenomenon, congrats, dude!
For some reason the "whoa another" made me really lol. It gave me the mental image of gophers popping up in a field and surprising someone. As for Lego and Yak paying me anything I hope they sometimes lurk around and like what they see! But I can always dream right? I mean the reason I started the blog in the first place was to break into the lucrative niche of miniature wargames internet forum posting to rake in the big bucks!
Haha, trust me. If there is a thread on your forum that's got a huge following, ranks higher than any others and is bringing in new members on it's own, well, you take note. Plus i'm sure they like a pretty picture as much as the rest of us. Maybe this topic of conversation will encourage them to break radio silence.
I wouldn't say they were delusions of grandeur. I'd say this blog is pretty grand and i don't think i need to go out of my way to prove it either.
A Titan would be an insane project, especially if we could expect extensive 'bio' conversions or something. I'm sure most of the readers would be up for pledging a couple of squid and maybe Dakka could start you off if you were to keep the project solely here? If you were to make a deal of marketing the project i'm sure you could drum up support quite quickly. The way i see it is, anything from £85 to £400 will result in something great and better as the funds increase. If you were to promise to add a percentage of what was given then a Tantalus might not seem far away and £200 for a smaller Titan doesn't look impossible. It would depend primarily on publicity, again Dakka might be able to help but you'll have to ask. I wonder how Dakka could use it as a publicity push... Maybe GW could plug such a project and slip in the web address of where you can follow it? But i'm going off on a tangent, that would be stuff for you to discuss with Lego and Yak. Keep me informed though, i'm very interested in that happening, now i'm off to read part two of you battle report.
From there, I went to your blog, because I was there thinking "This guy has done an entire army like this? Worth a look..." I also was looking for pictures, so I could show that guy at work that black is not the only option. I read the entire blog, and the rest you know.
As for my army, It is still DE, but more an offshoot living on a planet. Kinda. So the units are still regular, except my first batch of Kabalite Warriors who point up at 210 points. This is the lesson I learned : When doing something like this, it really helps to have the Codex. It'll stop you making crazy models...
As for my comment about making your own army, I was meaning that you individualise your army, with a back story and stuff. And colour schemes that are unique to yourself.
@Ovion: You know I realize that I never responded to your Magnatesque Biotitan and Felis Panthera Flesh Hound rules PM. It was because they seemed remarkably well balanced (this coming from someone who has only ever played Apocalypse twice). I was, and am, still trying to come up with something a little crazier since as is, I wouldn't object to seeing the Magnatesque in a regular game of 40k (the Panthera seems a little too big)!
@LostSoulCasey'sLaw: Let me have a think about this. But realistically, although it would be amazing to get community support, given the time it would take me to get the publicity up and maintained it might end up cheaper (ironically free time isn't free ) just to buy whatever I wanted myself! Unless there's a clear indication in the thread that a lot of the people reading this thread are for the idea, I'm inclined to hold off for now.
@Cameron Baum: In a narcissistic moment I Googled that term and found that picture! I'll second the notion that it definitely helps to get the Codex, an more importantly advice from someone who regularly plays with the army, before buying and building too much. But hey, what you built shows you've got ambition! My first models were bog standard bolter marines, I was too intimidated to start with the Sargent or special weapons!
Back in P&M land I've finished another pair of Flying Ripper Swarm bases to use as Razorwing Flocks. I'm using 16 of these bases in my current build (proxying my Khymerae due to lack of correct models) but I'm not going to buy that many until 6th edition comes out and I know they won't be invalidated. It was a joy to get back to painting after several days of writing my battle report. I'm really happy with the bits of the report I've written so far, but the writing, and map drawing, process feels altogether too much like work!
Here's a WIP shot just after the basecoats were applied and I washed them with Devlan Miracle.
Er... 6th Edition? Thank goodness all I did was download the 5th Edition rules, in part because I heard that rumour, and didn't know if it was wise to get it. Now it seems that holding back was probably wise. Pity about the paint situation... If those rumours are true, the very colours I'm using to create the look of my army might disappear, and I'll have to improvise...
As I mentioned, when I saw I had goofed up, I thought "Well, they are elite troops, then. Purple... I know, they are the Praetorian Guard." They are, in my mind, the same toughness as the Space Marines. But without the super armour. I'm left thinking of something more along the lines of the Clone Troopers in Star Wars. At least the HQ is very nearly finished... I think I mentioned that I had a slightly naff Lelith Hesperax, and I did a conversion. Which, thinking about it was very ambitious, considering that it was the first attempt. I'm in the process of getting pictures together of my army, but I'll just throw this tid-bit about my HQ: I re-pointed her to what the conversion was. I got it at 90 points.
I like the flying beasties, but have no true idea why they are there. I mean... why and when did the DE decide to have mentalist creatures go and be used on the front lines? I also can't wait to see the wings finished, and what you plan to tackle next. Oh, as for the Tantalus... maybe this is your Archon's personal ship? If Vect can have his special ship, why not your Archon?
Cameron Baum - the Dark Eldar have always captured and enslaved various beasties that have been brought to the front line.
With the dark Eldar it's a simple progression as to the explanation:
1: Is it a Dark Eldar? If yes - standard kabalite / wych unit.
If no:
2: Is it a beast of some sort? If yes - probably a slave or wych cult gribbly.
If no (i.e. it's a fleshy nasty or anything else):
3: Haemonculi did It.
Finished up another large flying base for one of my flying boats! I've said before that I often wonder why I didn't just go the easy route with pre-made commercial display bases. There are lots out nowadays that look great! I did a Google search for easy ways to mix Milliput but didn't find any brilliant methods for mixing large amounts at once. Any tips?
The picture shows how I break bits off the Milliput pancakes to create the slate texture:
@Swordwind: The army's big enough now that I'm tempted to go back and do some general "maintenance" work like the custom flying bases for all the models. I eventually want to take a proper high quality full army shot like Gitsplitta's Mantis Warriors masterpiece.
Pictures are now up, Jon. I also have to agree that your bases are best home-made. It is great and original display. Factory made bases would diminish your models
Continuing with my effort to finish up some odds and ends for the army before starting anything new, here's a Venom gunner. This is also proof that I paint very slowly! I actually felt rushed trying to finish her in two hours!
@Ovion: Pre-made bases also wouldn't let me customize them to fit each model's pose. But I'd also be spending twenty minutes less per model!
@Zid: Thanks! I took a look at your galley, any progress on painting your Dark Eldar? The Baron conversion looks badass, I especially like the skyboard.
@Swordwind: That will be a very long term project since there aren't any tournaments around here that need one. But I have thought about how one could be used to illustrate the Drowned Gardens name.
@Cameron Baum: I like the black and orange color pattern on the Venom!
Looking good Jon, shame there doesn't seem to be much support for the kickstarter Titan right now. Never mind, maybe it's something to consider at a later date!
The gunner is amazing. I've swiped a copy of the picture to use as a reference piece. Something to give me ideas about my own Wyches. The earthy red is really nice and effective, contrasting with the turquoise.
You managed to confuse me with the Orange and Black on the Venom... until I looked at the photo closely. The light has made it look like that, but it isn't orange and black. It's Dwarf Bronze and Tin Bitz.
Oh, was there celebrations in your local GW shop for Warhammer 40K? there was at the nearest shop to me, and I was in the town to get the bike fixed, or should I say rebuilt. They had paint competitions, as in paint a figure in 25 minutes. I entered it, and I'm quite surprised about the results. Mind you, I'm certain that you could produce something amazing in that time yourself. And before you argue with me, I point to the 25 pages of blog proving my point...
Mechanicum Jon wrote:Continuing with my effort to finish up some odds and ends for the army before starting anything new, here's a Venom gunner. This is also proof that I paint very slowly! I actually felt rushed trying to finish her in two hours!
Am I the only one seeing the mounted weapon grips looking like PS2 controllers?
I'm pretty sure the gunners will be one of the last things I do for my army as well.
Jon, I just discovered this blog about 3 days ago. I had taken a break from 40k, and recently just started looking over my armies, just looking for something to do.
I stumbled in here, and have spent the past 3 days going from post 1 forward...
Yesterday I bought a Venom, a Court of the Archon, and a box of Scourges.
My wife hates you now, but thanks for the inspiration, and fantastic tutorials!
Hmmm, maybe it's GW that should be paying you then Jon... It really is awesome that you are bringing people to Dakka or back to the hobby or just inspiring us!
Apparently the manager of my FLGS thinks that my converted beasts are losing them sales! He asked me if I could do him the favor of taking them out of the display cabinet for a while because they accidentally made a double order of beasts from GW and they still have a sizable pile of blisters that haven't sold for about a year! He said this very politely without any tone of criticism or complaint so there's no ill will on my part. It seems that my beasts sometimes attract the attention (and complements from what the manager tells me) of customers who decide not to buy the stock models when they learn that the beasts in the display are conversions! I think that the lack of sales probably has more to do with the relative price to point cost ratio of the models but we'll see.
You guys know that this is partially your fault as well. If you hadn't given such good constructive criticism on my first efforts they never would have turned out this well! Here's an old pic for new readers to illustrate the anecdote:
Cameron Baum wrote:I've got a couple waiting to be painted, too... Still, at least they're assembled. The second Raider and my Ravager is currently crewless.
Painting Dark Eldar vehicles seems to take longer than those of any other race because once you've painted crew for a few vehicles you've effectively painted up a squad that you can't use in game!
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:Looking good Jon, shame there doesn't seem to be much support for the kickstarter Titan right now. Never mind, maybe it's something to consider at a later date!
Sent you a PM. After looking at the small projects section of the Kickstarter website I'm reconsidering the idea as a long term goal.
prime12357 wrote:The gunner turned out well, I think. What's next?
Hellions and Beastmasters, actually. I painted up ten more Hellions a long time ago but never got the bases done. I'm converting one into another Beastmaster and have to paint some skyboards since I store my current Beastmasters' skyboards off that Hellion squad.
Cameron Baum wrote:You managed to confuse me with the Orange and Black on the Venom... until I looked at the photo closely. The light has made it look like that, but it isn't orange and black. It's Dwarf Bronze and Tin Bitz.
Oh, was there celebrations in your local GW shop for Warhammer 40K?
Well, whatever colors they are I like the way you arranged them and the overall effect of the pattern!
Scroll wrote:Am I the only one seeing the mounted weapon grips looking like PS2 controllers? I'm pretty sure the gunners will be one of the last things I do for my army as well.
I'll never be able to un-see that, although I don't think they've made a special edition gold controller yet. Also, from what I see online, not painting Dark Eldar crew is common practice!
JonnyDelta wrote:Jon, I just discovered this blog about 3 days ago. I had taken a break from 40k, and recently just started looking over my armies, just looking for something to do. I stumbled in here, and have spent the past 3 days going from post 1 forward... Yesterday I bought a Venom, a Court of the Archon, and a box of Scourges. My wife hates you now, but thanks for the inspiration, and fantastic tutorials!
There's no way of putting is that isn't corny, but it just makes me feel happy every time someone says they just discovered the blog, read though the whole thing, and found something that inspired them. Enjoy those first few models! Also, tell the wife that hate only makes me stronger (4+ Feel No Shame save)!
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:Hmmm, maybe it's GW that should be paying you then Jon... It really is awesome that you are bringing people to Dakka or back to the hobby or just inspiring us!
Honestly though, while I'm well aware this is free marketing for GW, I've gotten more out of Dakka and other internet forums and blogs over the past decade and a half than I'll ever put in! I'm an even slower writer than I am a painter so I lurk much, much more than I post, but I decided it would be cool to broaden my horizons and put some stuff up to see what people thought.
Having to take the beasts out of the display, because they're too good, and are quality conversions... It's really a compliment.
There is another pic of the Venom up, hopefully showing better the actual colour. I tried it out on the Venom, then worked it onto the Raider. The Reavers I have started to experiment with look pretty interesting, too. All this is because of you encouraging me to be really different with the DE. That's what this blog means. Remember that.
Mechanicum Jon wrote:I'll never be able to un-see that, although I don't think they've made a special edition gold controller yet. Also, from what I see online, not painting Dark Eldar crew is common practice!
It's probably not the most practical way to control a turret. Oh and I just checked, apparently there was a limited release gold controller a long while back... Heh.
But seriously you've inspired me to collect Dark Eldar and to push myself to paint to a higher standard.
Jon: what did you do to your swarms between the WIP shot and the finished product? (they look great, btw)
Cameron Baum: I like your scheme quite a bit, as well. Next time you take pictures, try having more than one light source (or use a light box) so the rest of us can enjoy your hard work a little better.
Scroll wrote: But seriously you've inspired me to collect Dark Eldar and to push myself to paint to a higher standard.
Scroll, They are certainly worth it. You can swap parts about from all the various kits, and have a lot of variety. Just keep your eyes open when it comes to Finecast... it can be badly moulded. However, the Customer Service allows you to keep the original, and send out a replacement.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @ SpyGuyYoda: Thanks for the compliment. I'm trying to get better pictures, but the only camera that's really available is the one on my phone. I plan to replace it next pay day, so I might have something better to play with. I'll look into lighting, though the bulk of them were taken in daylight.
What is annoying is that I had my first paint lesson today. Turns out, I should be watering down the paints. I'd been using them all Neat, straight out the pot. Not useful...
I needed to paint up a few Skyboards to replace the ones my Beastmasters stole from my WIP Hellions. So I decided to make another mini-tutorial of it. I rather enjoy painting Skyboards because they're like mini-vehicles. You use all the same techniques but can finish them with much less effort!
Here's the first step of painting. I spray the top half of the Skyboards with Tamiya Coral Blue and the bottoms with a reddish brown. It's easier to keep them separate for now because you don't have to worry about getting copper on the blue while painting it.
I also finished another large flying base:
@spyguyyoda: I'm fairly sure I described how I painted the striated bone when I was painting the Khymerae. The wings are painted in the same way I paint my sails. Have a root around the previous posts in the thread. If you can't find what you want, let me know, and I'll write up a short description.
@Scroll: I did a Google image search, there's another gold controller coming out in March in Japan. I guess my gunner's playing that One Piece fighting game in the far future. But seriously, onward and upward towards painting enlightenment together!
@Cameron Baum: Yeah, watering down your paints does help. I use a rudimentary "wet palette." Small plastic box with a few folded up sheets of wet kitchen towel and a piece of baking parchment on top. Although that being said, I sometimes paint straight out of the pot too when I'm lazy. Weathering covers up a multitude of rough spots and thick paint. See it's realistic weathering, not a rough paint job.
Mechanicum Jon wrote:@Cameron Baum & LostSoulCasey'sLaw: Most of the models I've bought are at least indirectly the fault of people on DakkaDakka or other internet sites!
Haha, good point, i guess we are all influenced by what others are up to. That's why the wargaming community is so great, shame there is so much bickering. Oh yeh, i was reading about that poem again, i'm thinking of painting the quote on my wall, it's really cool.
I just want to clarify I got into all of this, because I happened to stumble onto the shop...
Oh, and I've listened now to all the tracks now. They are great, though sound a tad cheesy, because they are meant to be in Cantinas, and such places. So it'll make a great addition to your model making music list.
Most of the models I've bought are at least indirectly the fault of people on DakkaDakka or other internet sites!
What with your conversions of Sara and the tentacled hounds, I'm betting you've inspired a lot of people to convert their Dark Eldar. And the wheel keeps on turning
Thanks for the step-by-step on the skyboards. I've yet to paint any of mine yet but now I know of a better way to paint them thanks to you.
I know... I'm tempted to start getting some of the spray cans he uses, because that might be a useful thing for basecoating...
And as I've said before, he's given me confidence to keep going with the creative ideas I have for my army. He's certainly more encouraging than the nearest GW shop, that's for sure... and a lot more competent. I've had them tell me I needed Liquid Green Stuff to smooth out skulls from a building. Months later, I find out normal Green Stuff was really the answer...
At least now, I know that Liquid Green Stuff is for filling cracks and small holes...
This turned out to mainly be a base building weekend. I've gotten much faster at building these now since I've gotten so much practice, but mixing that much Milliput is still a pain. I've got a feeling that I spend just as much time and effort mixing the Milliput as I do actually putting the bases together!
I also finished off the skyboards but I'll wait until I've got the bases painted to take some photos of the completed models.
In gaming news, I played a game against Marines and got tabled, but it was fun to bring out the 18 strong Hellion squad for the first time in months. That is definitely one of the most visually impressive units in the game. They tore through two squads but then got absolutely destroyed by a Command Squad. Feel no Pain (from a Apothecary) + Lightning Claws = bad news for Hellions. Didn't help that the Baron failed his second Shadowfield save of the game and was cut in half by a Relic Blade. The problem with big Hellion squads is there really isn't much they do that two squads of Beasts wouldn't do better for less points! Still I'm glad they had their fun. They were starting to look really lonely being left in the display cabinet every time I played a game.
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote: That's why the wargaming community is so great, shame there is so much bickering. Oh yeh, i was reading about that poem again, i'm thinking of painting the quote on my wall, it's really cool.
Bickering seems to be fairly common to any fan community. That being said, since I noticed that I've tried to move away from nitpicking to hopefully give more constructive criticism. Not to mention constructive complements (i.e. giving people a few more details about exactly why you liked something)! On your other note, are you going to paint it in English or Chinese. If you pick Chinese just make sure you get it right, there are some characters with very different meanings that differ by just a few strokes. I've seen some very questionable tattoos and T-shirt designs
Cameron Baum wrote: Oh, and I've listened now to all the tracks now. So it'll make a great addition to your model making music list.
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll be listening to a few of those tonight.
Faust wrote:man those are awesome..i really like the turquoise color scheme..
Thanks Faust! I must have won the lottery on the color scheme since I've managed to make it work on everything I've tried so far!
Dark_Gear wrote:What with your conversions of Sara and the tentacled hounds, I'm betting you've inspired a lot of people to convert their Dark Eldar. And the wheel keeps on turning Thanks for the step-by-step on the skyboards. I've yet to paint any of mine yet but now I know of a better way to paint them thanks to you. Keep the inspiration flowing.
I originally wanted to keep the army conversion free so that I could focus on the painting but I couldn't help myself.
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote: That's why the wargaming community is so great, shame there is so much bickering. Oh yeh, i was reading about that poem again, i'm thinking of painting the quote on my wall, it's really cool.
Bickering seems to be fairly common to any fan community. That being said, since I noticed that I've tried to move away from nitpicking to hopefully give more constructive criticism. Not to mention constructive complements (i.e. giving people a few more details about exactly why you liked something)! On your other note, are you going to paint it in English or Chinese. If you pick Chinese just make sure you get it right, there are some characters with very different meanings that differ by just a few strokes. I've seen some very questionable tattoos and T-shirt designs
I meant more general bickering about Games Workshop, or he said, she said shenanigans but as you say it's common in most communities. I was thinking about that myself, English would be nice because people will be able to read it but Chinese would be more apt due to origin. That said, i'm swinging towards Chinese because it's a nice talking point, i.e. "What does that mean?" The only objection would be that it might look pretentious. I've heard a lot about those silly mistakes people make with characters, when i come to doing it i'll need to get some advice from you.
Bases look perfect as always, shame there isn't a quicker way for you to do it. The end product is worth the time in my opinion though.
MODS: Don't worry the post sorted itself out. I panicked, my bad.
I personally feel that it runs a bit deeper than that...
I've noticed that there is a sort of "elitism" in the game. If your face doesn't fit, you'll not quite be accepted. Moreover, there is a solid rigidity in mentality. You have to have GW items for a game, and that is that. Also, there is little scope of developing more advanced/better tech, because it is all static. Everything is handed down, and so forth. So you have armies that are fighting with the same stuff for centuries, or millennia. This would be like the Royal Air Force still using Spitfires, each one handed down reverentially from pilot to pilot. And the American Air Force still using Mustangs.
War is one of the fastest developers of technology. Look at the Second World War, and how much technology had advanced. And that was five or so years... History has shown that if you are static for too long, you will get your backside swiped to the floor by other, more advanced groups. Just ask, for example, the Ancient Egyptians. They were nearly wiped out more than once, because of being static. That said, mind you, if you keep to a type of technology, and refine it and enhance it, you can end up being very devastating to your neighbours/attackers when you are still using a technology long since abandoned. Just ask Julius Caesar. He got thumped twice by the Ancient Britons, because they still used Chariots, and had developed them to even greater levels.
You also have the tape measures, and the rigid "We must start X distance apart." Does it have to be like that?If you know the approximate distance for things, just use it. In P&P RPG, you have ranges for spells, weapons and stuff, but we are not obsessed with accurate distances. And you have a lot more flexibility in making choices, also.
There is also a noticeable competitive streak in playing the game. This is something that put me completely off Facebook games, and also why I'm not playing MMO games, either. You get obsessed, and are forever trying to beat your opponents. It is not healthy psychologically. You get further when you co-operate with others, and work on common goals.
All that being said, I love making models that look cool, and I am really enjoying coming up with working backgrounds to what I am building. I can see a lot of scope for the setting, it just isn't properly used. Oh, and there is too much obsession on Metaplot. Which is a shame, because it always restricts longer term. Also, there are brilliant and decent people doing this, as people posting on this blog demonstrate. Which is why I am still (slowly) putting more and more stuff together...
And I love the bases, by the way. They may take a lot of time to put together, but in the end, they are bases that are befitting for your models, and are items to be proud of...
Cameron Baum wrote: I personally feel that it runs a bit deeper than that...
Sorry, Cameron, were you replying to me? I didn't really see what post you were replying to because you didn't quote anyone and there are a lot of different conversations going on now.
Swordwind wrote:If you do it in Chinese, it doesn't matter what you write. All your white friends will believe you even if it says 'fishball soup'
I don't think so. According to legend, it's one of the reasons why Jonh Blanche left the Studio as he couldn't wrap his head around this theory of making conversion-free armies. j/k
Stop being daft... Conversions are what make people legends, and makes all this truly interesting...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:
Cameron Baum wrote: I personally feel that it runs a bit deeper than that...
Sorry, Cameron, were you replying to me? I didn't really see what post you were replying to because you didn't quote anyone and there are a lot of different conversations going on now.
Swordwind wrote:If you do it in Chinese, it doesn't matter what you write. All your white friends will believe you even if it says 'fishball soup'
Haha, very true!
It was a general rant, not targeted at anyone. Just throwing it into the mix, seeing as I'm new to all this, and it might make a helpful perspective.
As for the T-Shirt, if it ends up saying fish bowl soup, you'll never want to wear it in China Town, or China, for that matter...
Who's being daft? Following my first army of Marines (circa WH40k 1st edition), every single army has incorporated some amount of conversions. Exactly as you say, conversions define the character of the army as much as list defines the play style.
The conversion potential of an army is what attracts me most of all, hence my choice of Nids as a primary force. While Dark Eldar don't quite have the same conversion potential as Chaos, the fact that they are not a power-armoured army that is both highly mobile and versatile (in that they can focus either on shooting or melee equally well) makes them a must have for my tastes.
Once my nids are completed though, I foresee that my kabal's haemonculii will produce many interesting variations of Wracks and Grotesques.
Speaking of which, do you have any plans for Grotesques at some point John, you know, just for the fun of it?
I think what I love about your color scheme is that to me it says that these are clearly eldar, decadent and evil maybe, but without any moody emo impulse to change the vehicles they had been cruising around in before the coming of She Who Thirsts. Absolutely awesome job- I am going to go home and be sad at my old style models and poor paint job.
Dark_Gear wrote:Who's being daft? Following my first army of Marines (circa WH40k 1st edition), every single army has incorporated some amount of conversions. Exactly as you say, conversions define the character of the army as much as list defines the play style.
The conversion potential of an army is what attracts me most of all, hence my choice of Nids as a primary force. While Dark Eldar don't quite have the same conversion potential as Chaos, the fact that they are not a power-armoured army that is both highly mobile and versatile (in that they can focus either on shooting or melee equally well) makes them a must have for my tastes.
Once my nids are completed though, I foresee that my kabal's haemonculii will produce many interesting variations of Wracks and Grotesques.
Speaking of which, do you have any plans for Grotesques at some point John, you know, just for the fun of it?
Oh, I reckon they've got just as much potential as any of the races.
I mean - a Haem could have got at the local Wyches or Kabalites / some kabal had pissed him off / some incubi crossed him, etc and turned them all into say.. lizardmen, giant anthro-chickens (like the Chicken that Peter keeps fighting in Family Guy), given them all 6 arms, replaced their arms with tentacles, etc, etc.
Through the nature of their world and how it manufactures products (through slave labour), they can easily have weapons and machines custom built, so on a whimsy a crazed archon, or haem could have a batch of splinter weapons that look like sticks or giant hairbrushes. Or commission a Venom that looks like a flying Delorean (tempted to do this one now....), Tardis Raider, a flying sofa or tree, etc.
My Grotesques are made from dryads, my Wracks are rats, One of my Talos is a Toaster, another Talos / Cronos is a kettle.
Haemocnuli did it.
Entire army of Margret Thatcher clones... now there would be creepy.
Anyway - keep up the good work, both you and Jon. xD
So, I can't be the only one who thinks these look quite tasty!
I wrap the clear stems of the flying stands in masking tape for ease of painting. It's also surprisingly satisfying to peel off once the base is done and varnished.
To elaborate a bit on my idea of a conversion free army:
I had this thought when I had just been working for more than a year on an Adeptus Mechanicus army that was almost fully converted. If I remember correctly, the only completely stock models I had in that army were a Techpriest, a handful of servitors, and a couple Hellhounds! I thought it would be refreshing to concentrate purely on painting for a change. And if you look back, most of this army is relatively conversion free. It was only after I had painted a few things that I started to get the urge to convert again.
Evocatus wrote:I think what I love about your color scheme is that to me it says that these are clearly eldar, decadent and evil maybe, but without any moody emo impulse to change the vehicles they had been cruising around in before the coming of She Who Thirsts.
Evocatus wins today's "Quotable Comment Award," for describing my army's theme more concisely than I've been able to so far! I've had a couple people in the FLGS criticize the color scheme for making them look too much like Eldar, i.e. along the lines of Cameron Baum's comment that, "I've noticed that there is a sort of "elitism" in the game. If your face doesn't fit, you'll not quite be accepted."
But fortunately most people seem to understand where I'm coming from! For a more positive note, I just had an eight or nine year old kid come up to me in the store while I was playing a game who said quite spontaneously, "Wow! These are the best painted models I've ever seen!" He also said that Sara was really cool but a bit weird. Which is high praise for a Haemonculus!
Dark_Gear wrote:Who's being daft? Following my first army of Marines (circa WH40k 1st edition), every single army has incorporated some amount of conversions. Exactly as you say, conversions define the character of the army as much as list defines the play style.
The conversion potential of an army is what attracts me most of all, hence my choice of Nids as a primary force. While Dark Eldar don't quite have the same conversion potential as Chaos, the fact that they are not a power-armoured army that is both highly mobile and versatile (in that they can focus either on shooting or melee equally well) makes them a must have for my tastes.
Once my nids are completed though, I foresee that my kabal's haemonculii will produce many interesting variations of Wracks and Grotesques.
Speaking of which, do you have any plans for Grotesques at some point John, you know, just for the fun of it?
These Marines... are they like the Special Edition model? Because, if so, then cool. Those ones have something unique and personal to them. Character and individuality. Now, they look like Stormtroopers gone through "Thug and Bully School"... A friend was commenting on how he had gotten into this when the original ones were still about, and he felt they were never properly replaced, that there is no continuity between the original look, and now.
Conversion is part of the excitement of this for me. My first DE model I ended up altering, because it hadn't quite moulded right. So I put it together, and it looks great. (the painting part... well, I'm still learning.) As for 'nids... I've thought of having a few rigged up to carry some DE, like cavalry... And the DE I've been building have, ironically, shaped my idea for the army in general. The ruler of the planet they are on makes his elite troops go through the same process as the SM, but are not in the armour like them. Why SM have to dress up like they are attending Robocop fan conventions, I'll never know...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ovion wrote:
Dark_Gear wrote:Who's being daft? Following my first army of Marines (circa WH40k 1st edition), every single army has incorporated some amount of conversions. Exactly as you say, conversions define the character of the army as much as list defines the play style.
The conversion potential of an army is what attracts me most of all, hence my choice of Nids as a primary force. While Dark Eldar don't quite have the same conversion potential as Chaos, the fact that they are not a power-armoured army that is both highly mobile and versatile (in that they can focus either on shooting or melee equally well) makes them a must have for my tastes.
Once my nids are completed though, I foresee that my kabal's haemonculii will produce many interesting variations of Wracks and Grotesques.
Speaking of which, do you have any plans for Grotesques at some point John, you know, just for the fun of it?
Oh, I reckon they've got just as much potential as any of the races.
I mean - a Haem could have got at the local Wyches or Kabalites / some kabal had pissed him off / some incubi crossed him, etc and turned them all into say.. lizardmen, giant anthro-chickens (like the Chicken that Peter keeps fighting in Family Guy), given them all 6 arms, replaced their arms with tentacles, etc, etc.
Through the nature of their world and how it manufactures products (through slave labour), they can easily have weapons and machines custom built, so on a whimsy a crazed archon, or haem could have a batch of splinter weapons that look like sticks or giant hairbrushes. Or commission a Venom that looks like a flying Delorean (tempted to do this one now....), Tardis Raider, a flying sofa or tree, etc.
My Grotesques are made from dryads, my Wracks are rats, One of my Talos is a Toaster, another Talos / Cronos is a kettle.
Haemocnuli did it.
Entire army of Margret Thatcher clones... now there would be creepy.
Anyway - keep up the good work, both you and Jon. xD
This builds up an argument of making Grotesques out of other army parts, like a combination of Nid's Taus, and whatever else that can find, or feel like slapping together... The Haemonculi always remind me of the Tzimisce, to be fair...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mechanicum Jon wrote:So, I can't be the only one who thinks these look quite tasty!
I wrap the clear stems of the flying stands in masking tape for ease of painting. It's also surprisingly satisfying to peel off once the base is done and varnished.
url=http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery You know the pic, he's just posted it...
To elaborate a bit on my idea of a conversion free army:
I had this thought when I had just been working for more than a year on an Adeptus Mechanicus army that was almost fully converted. If I remember correctly, the only completely stock models I had in that army were a Techpriest, a handful of servitors, and a couple Hellhounds! I thought it would be refreshing to concentrate purely on painting for a change. And if you look back, most of this army is relatively conversion free. It was only after I had painted a few things that I started to get the urge to convert again.
Evocatus wrote:I think what I love about your color scheme is that to me it says that these are clearly eldar, decadent and evil maybe, but without any moody emo impulse to change the vehicles they had been cruising around in before the coming of She Who Thirsts.
Evocatus wins today's "Quotable Comment Award," for describing my army's theme more concisely than I've been able to so far! I've had a couple people in the FLGS criticize the color scheme for making them look too much like Eldar, i.e. along the lines of Cameron Baum's comment that, "I've noticed that there is a sort of "elitism" in the game. If your face doesn't fit, you'll not quite be accepted."
But fortunately most people seem to understand where I'm coming from! For a more positive note, I just had an eight or nine year old kid come up to me in the store while I was playing a game who said quite spontaneously, "Wow! These are the best painted models I've ever seen!" He also said that Sara was really cool but a bit weird. Which is high praise for a Haemonculus!
Well, you saw opportunity to personalise, and you took it. And kudos to you for doing so.
And it is a brilliant summary from Evocatus. says it all perfectly. As for them looking too much like Eldar, well, that's what they ARE. A friend, looking at my DE models, said, "Youy know, this looks perfect now. They've modelled it right. They look like Eldar, but wrong." Which is the DE: Eldar, but wrong. Like the Vulcans and the Romulans. As for the elitists... Well, they make me want to field an AT-AT into my army as dedicated transport, just to annoy them. These are the same people who will defend unto death the fluff for Kaldor Draego, making eloquent arguments for him making sense, and fitting in, when the rest of us know that he is simply a joke to tickle our sides, and keep us from getting too serious about all of this.
And the models you have ARE brilliantly painted. Keep going with it!
Dark_Gear wrote:Who's being daft? Following my first army of Marines (circa WH40k 1st edition), every single army has incorporated some amount of conversions. Exactly as you say, conversions define the character of the army as much as list defines the play style.
The conversion potential of an army is what attracts me most of all, hence my choice of Nids as a primary force. While Dark Eldar don't quite have the same conversion potential as Chaos, the fact that they are not a power-armoured army that is both highly mobile and versatile (in that they can focus either on shooting or melee equally well) makes them a must have for my tastes.
Once my nids are completed though, I foresee that my kabal's haemonculii will produce many interesting variations of Wracks and Grotesques.
Speaking of which, do you have any plans for Grotesques at some point John, you know, just for the fun of it?
Oh, I reckon they've got just as much potential as any of the races.
I mean - a Haem could have got at the local Wyches or Kabalites / some kabal had pissed him off / some incubi crossed him, etc and turned them all into say.. lizardmen, giant anthro-chickens (like the Chicken that Peter keeps fighting in Family Guy), given them all 6 arms, replaced their arms with tentacles, etc, etc.
Through the nature of their world and how it manufactures products (through slave labour), they can easily have weapons and machines custom built, so on a whimsy a crazed archon, or haem could have a batch of splinter weapons that look like sticks or giant hairbrushes. Or commission a Venom that looks like a flying Delorean (tempted to do this one now....), Tardis Raider, a flying sofa or tree, etc.
My Grotesques are made from dryads, my Wracks are rats, One of my Talos is a Toaster, another Talos / Cronos is a kettle.
Haemocnuli did it.
Entire army of Margret Thatcher clones... now there would be creepy.
Anyway - keep up the good work, both you and Jon. xD
This builds up an argument of making Grotesques out of other army parts, like a combination of Nid's Taus, and whatever else that can find, or feel like slapping together... The Haemonculi always remind me of the Tzimisce, to be fair...
And it would be completely legitimate. The Fleshworkers are batcrap crazy and can do what they like So long as it has something vaguely resembling a head, and some sort of limbs to hit things with...
Cameron: Ah i'm with you now, dude. I didn't want to be rude by not realising you were addressing me directly or something. I guess i'll throw my opinion in the hat...
Spoiler:
I've been converting my models since the first box i received. Actually, i remember the whole experience like it was yesterday. Ripping off the wrapping paper, peeling back the cellophane, easing the huge lid from the box, and confronting a mass of sprues. Sure, i eventually deemed the miniatures write offs and only have one model left to tell the tale(reconstructed -converted from his fallen brethren) but the idea came naturally to me. The models were what got me into the hobby and kept me in it but i've only played a handful of games in my life so they should be pretty easy to remember, right? Hell no, i don't remember the first thing about any of them and that's because i don't really care for the games.
But i'd not be at all surprised that another hobbyist remembers his/her first game like it just happened and can't remember which miniatures he owns, never mind care to convert or even paint them. I guess the division lies between those who lean towards the gaming aspect and those who lean toward the artistic elements of the hobby. Importantly neither tendency is wrong, on the occasion that i play the games(Infinity, 40k, whatever) i play strictly by the rules because the chances are my opponent takes that stuff very seriously. And who can say that's wrong? You are cooperating with that person for mutual enjoyment. If i invited someone to help me convert a model, paint it and write the fluff then i'd be pretty annoyed if they wasted my time and effort.
I hate it when people complain about an army because of how its painted or modeled but we have to look at the whole story. Firstly, i hate it because stunting creativity is just awful and if we pissed on all the ideas we don't like the sound of then humanity couldn't move forward. The other side of the coin is that if your army isn't in keeping with the feel of the game system, i'll use DPB's army as a potent example, then i can understand how someone who wants to immerse themselves in the grim dark universe would be perturbed. Reading some of DPB's blog will alert you to the other problem some people have with his army but thats another conversation entirely. Personally, i'd suggest that those perturbed individuals should lighten up and enjoy the game on another level as a one off. After all, i don't complain if they haven't painted their miniatures or strived to convert them. In return for their courtesy, politely declining a game and explaining why for instance, we shouldn't force every person to meet our standards for a tabletop+ miniature. Is either side elitist? Nah, but their are a lot of angry, close minded people out there.
Importantly, everyone has their line, their comfort zone, and they shouldn't be ashamed of it. They should be polite though, live and let live. For instance, i like 'toy cutting,' as i call it, so i have a fondness for DPB's and 7yler's armies which a lot of people dislike. However, while i love Ovion's hilarious, tongue in cheek DE conversion's i struggle with them because they pic and choose with fluff. I hope i'm not being rude Ovion, i'm just a bit all or nothing with fluff, i still think your kettle and toaster conversions are very humorous and i would never reject a game against them.
Hypocrisy thy name is me. Something i have recently endeavored to do is to build a 500point army of Space Marines without much more than kit bashing. I bought everything before Xmas and i'll be hammering them out later this year when i finish my 'NIds. Yeh, it sounds a little hypocritical but i feel like i missed something along the way. GW minis are awesome and there is a reason most people start with Space Marines, i've never had an army like that. Also, to add it, the 500pts are designed to be a reasonably competitive mechanised list so i can learn to play properly and find a regular gaming club. I'm doing this more for the social aspects than anything else though, the internet is currently my only good source of conversation about the hobby.
The one thing i can't stand about converting models is... the time it takes me. I can't look a at a miniature without mentally taking it apart and rebuilding it, i'm blessed cursed with one of those minds that can turn objects into exploded isometrics and i have an over active imagination to boot. I just don't have the time, cash or skills to follow through with my ideas and it's very frustrating to be creatively bottled up like that. On saying that, i'm predominantly led by the story spinning aspect of the hobby. If i come up with a story i like or an interesting character then i will without a doubt follow up with ideas of how to represent it in miniature. But i've rambled on long enough...
(Spoilered because we have completely hijacked Jon's thread. If we are going to continue putting the world to right, someone should make a new thread. )
And it would be completely legitimate. The Fleshworkers are batcrap crazy and can do what they like So long as it has something vaguely resembling a head, and some sort of limbs to hit things with...
I thought I'd give you a couple of links, to further inspiration...
LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:Cameron: Ah i'm with you now, dude. I didn't want to be rude by not realising you were addressing me directly or something. I guess i'll throw my opinion in the hat...
Spoiler:
I've been converting my models since the first box i received. Actually, i remember the whole experience like it was yesterday. Ripping off the wrapping paper, peeling back the cellophane, easing the huge lid from the box, and confronting a mass of sprues. Sure, i eventually deemed the miniatures write offs and only have one model left to tell the tale(reconstructed -converted from his fallen brethren) but the idea came naturally to me. The models were what got me into the hobby and kept me in it but i've only played a handful of games in my life so they should be pretty easy to remember, right? Hell no, i don't remember the first thing about any of them and that's because i don't really care for the games.
But i'd not be at all surprised that another hobbyist remembers his/her first game like it just happened and can't remember which miniatures he owns, never mind care to convert or even paint them. I guess the division lies between those who lean towards the gaming aspect and those who lean toward the artistic elements of the hobby. Importantly neither tendency is wrong, on the occasion that i play the games(Infinity, 40k, whatever) i play strictly by the rules because the chances are my opponent takes that stuff very seriously. And who can say that's wrong? You are cooperating with that person for mutual enjoyment. If i invited someone to help me convert a model, paint it and write the fluff then i'd be pretty annoyed if they wasted my time and effort.
I hate it when people complain about an army because of how its painted or modeled but we have to look at the whole story. Firstly, i hate it because stunting creativity is just awful and if we pissed on all the ideas we don't like the sound of then humanity couldn't move forward. The other side of the coin is that if your army isn't in keeping with the feel of the game system, i'll use DPB's army as a potent example, then i can understand how someone who wants to immerse themselves in the grim dark universe would be perturbed. Reading some of DPB's blog will alert you to the other problem some people have with his army but thats another conversation entirely. Personally, i'd suggest that those perturbed individuals should lighten up and enjoy the game on another level as a one off. After all, i don't complain if they haven't painted their miniatures or strived to convert them. In return for their courtesy, politely declining a game and explaining why for instance, we shouldn't force every person to meet our standards for a tabletop+ miniature. Is either side elitist? Nah, but their are a lot of angry, close minded people out there.
Importantly, everyone has their line, their comfort zone, and they shouldn't be ashamed of it. They should be polite though, live and let live. For instance, i like 'toy cutting,' as i call it, so i have a fondness for DPB's and 7yler's armies which a lot of people dislike. However, while i love Ovion's hilarious, tongue in cheek DE conversion's i struggle with them because they pic and choose with fluff. I hope i'm not being rude Ovion, i'm just a bit all or nothing with fluff, i still think your kettle and toaster conversions are very humorous and i would never reject a game against them.
Hypocrisy thy name is me. Something i have recently endeavored to do is to build a 500point army of Space Marines without much more than kit bashing. I bought everything before Xmas and i'll be hammering them out later this year when i finish my 'NIds. Yeh, it sounds a little hypocritical but i feel like i missed something along the way. GW minis are awesome and there is a reason most people start with Space Marines, i've never had an army like that. Also, to add it, the 500pts are designed to be a reasonably competitive mechanised list so i can learn to play properly and find a regular gaming club. I'm doing this more for the social aspects than anything else though, the internet is currently my only good source of conversation about the hobby.
The one thing i can't stand about converting models is... the time it takes me. I can't look a at a miniature without mentally taking it apart and rebuilding it, i'm blessed cursed with one of those minds that can turn objects into exploded isometrics and i have an over active imagination to boot. I just don't have the time, cash or skills to follow through with my ideas and it's very frustrating to be creatively bottled up like that. On saying that, i'm predominantly led by the story spinning aspect of the hobby. If i come up with a story i like or an interesting character then i will without a doubt follow up with ideas of how to represent it in miniature. But i've rambled on long enough...
(Spoilered because we have completely hijacked Jon's thread. If we are going to continue putting the world to right, someone should make a new thread. )
Let me put it to you this way... if we were to take 40K seriously, GW wouldn't have come up with Kaldor Draego... I'm going to have to show him to my friends, so they all can have as big a laugh as I did when I discovered his fluff... To be honest, I'm more happy in making the models, and creating backgrounds to the whole thing. The elitists can all "go hang," as Robert Mugabe once said...
What you said made me think of an article Sheldon Brown once wrote about Derailers/derailleur, and his argument for using the word "Derailer." He won me over, because he was right. The end of the article had this quote:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
Therefore, I will continue to be unreasonable, and create the army I want, and others will have to learn to live with my pretty little creations. :@P And all others who do the same, and show double-barrelled awesome in the process (Jon, Ovion et. al.) will get my respect.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, I've hit fifty posts....
Only had a shot time for painting today, but I did get the next stage of the bases done! I've done a heavy drybrush of the bases using Adeptus Battlegrey, followed by a lighter drybrush of Adeptus Battlegrey.
@LostSoulCasey'sLaw & Cameron Baum et al.: While I think everyone is having a really interesting discussion, I think it's getting big enough to be it's own thread since I'd like to keep this one a bit more focused. Or if you really can't stand to leave the comfortable environs of the Drowned Gardens, can I suggest you adopt LostSoulCasey'sLaw's method of putting some bits under spoiler tags? I've got some strong opinions as well but I'd prefer not to have the actual modeling updates get lost in the firestorm!
@Ovion: Converting Grotesques is definitely on my list of things to do eventually, probably as soon as some of the online bitz stores get the Isle of Blood Rat Ogres back in stock.
My friend also used Chaos Spawn and Minotaurs as the basis for some of his grotesques. They're a little easier to work with than the two-piece IoB Rogres.
Does it have to be IoB Rat Ogres? Regular Ogre Kingdoms Ogres will work also for size and bulk, aswell as the spawn mentioned above, various troll models (O&G river trolls especially), beastmen minotaurs, I reckon Beastmen UnGors would work too. I'd also love to see some Vampire Counts Vargheists / Crypt Horrors Grotesques.
Personally I'm going to be making another 8-12 Grots out of Dryads, and later in the year will be splitting an Ogre Kingdoms battleforce with a guy to make 10 more grots (for uriens 'strong' grots).
I'm also about to buy a real Grotesque model (I know, I'm terrible) though it's not actually going to be for my Dark Eldar, but my Tau.
The bases are done. I'm looking forward to seeing all my Hellions together on their scenic bases, the squad will be up to nineteen strong! The image below shows the bases after I've given them a wash of Leviathan Purple mixed with Thraka Green. While the photo after shows what they look like after I've smeared on some Vallejo Green Sky with a wet drybrush and applied the "moss."
A random thought occurred to me while I was sticking the "moss"on. I realized that what I was doing was essentially sticking on clumps of green lint., which stuck me as quite a odd thing to be doing in one's free time.
@spyguyyoda & Ovion: I just happen to like how the IOB ogres look. But if I ever do a squad it will need more than two members so I'll be using other options as well.
@LostSoulCasey's Law: Thanks, they actually look even better in reality, in the photos they come out looking a bit flatter and grey-er.
I think the term lint was for comic effect Cameron.
Which brand of stuff(lichen?) do you use? I really should get some eventually and the stuff you use looks great. Thats probably more to do with you than the product though!
Modeling time has been very limited for me over the past couple days. I cleaned the mold lines off the Wyches I built a few weeks ago since I've decided to paint them next. They's the only Dark Eldar troops choice that I haven't painted a squad of yet! I still own quite a stack of unpainted models but I've painted some version of almost all of them already. With the sole exception of a stock Haemonculus model that arrived in the mail some months back who I've had very little inclination to paint since he arrived after Sara was completed.
@Cameron Baum: I'm going to have to disappoint you, it's not actually lint. I just got that impression from the texture. I'm no expert on lint but I expect it to be fairly "thready" and thus difficult to use for fine work. The stuff I use is actually fairly inexpensive considering you'll typically use very little of it. See my reply to LSCL below.
@LostSoulCasey'sLaw: The stuff I use is Woodland Scenics Foliage, Medium Green (F52). I bought a small bag here for less than US$5 and I've only used about a quarter of it so far in all the basing I've done for my whole army. That's why I unfortunately don't think it would be worth Cameron Baum's time to do R&D on a substitute.
I will be taking photos of all the Hellions together, I just haven't found time to head down to the FLGS with the completed bases and a camera to collect the other 10 which are on display!
The Hellion photos have suffered a weather delay (i.e. had lunch out, experienced cold and wet weather, decided to stay home instead of going to FLGS). The upside was that I was able to make a start on painting my first squad of Wyches. However, my last pot of "Bodysuit Brown" (a custom paint mixture) was almost out and I needed to mix up some more. Regular readers will know that I never really figured out a recipe that could easily be replicated since I just kept adding colors to the pot until it looked about right. This time I decided to avoid that and worked out a super simple mix that gets the color I want. It's roughly 5 parts Mechite Red, 2 parts Chaos Black, and 1 part Mordian Blue. Another benefit of this mix over my old brew of colors is that it's mostly composed of Foundation paints, which means it covers better. Highlights are then done by mixing in increasing amounts of Mechite Red with small amounts of Blood Red.
I had to attach some of the Wyches to their bases before painting because their more dynamic poses required pinning and gap filling around their feet to get a solid join. This led me to paint the bases first because they're mostly drybrushed (with a big brush!) and I didn't want to have to worry about ruining a completed paintjob on the minis!
worldwarme wrote:Thats it. I 've said it before, I'll say it again; I have much to learn from your DE Thread. Subscribed. Please keep producing and taking pics.
Wow that teal/turquoise really pops nicely! I'd actually prefer a bit more armour on the Wyches so there could be a bit more of it! The turquoise goes on first because I don't want to worry too much about getting grey on other parts of the model when I sponge on the paint chipping. It's ok to get the grey on the bodysuit basecoat because I'll be painting over most of the surfaces with brighter highlights. I'm liking these mini's more and more as I paint them (as usually happens with me). Particularly because I haven't painted anything that's in a more dynamic pose for a while.
I didn't expect people to be looking forward to Wyches so much. Thanks for the encouragement!
So, it normally takes a significant amount of willpower for me to get miniatures to this stage. Or a really good Podcast or Audiobook. But once the mini's are in this state my motivation level jumps up and progress really accelerates. I think I've said this before, but once I have the major areas of color blocked in the whole character of the miniature really starts to express itself. I stop having to think so hard about where every brushstroke goes because I have a much better feel for what would look "right."
And then the Song of the Universe floods into the room and the finished miniatures reveal themselves in a Blaze of Glory!
But, I managed to take a picture of these Wyches a split second before that happened so you can see what they look like before they transcend into a higher plane of existence. Returning to actual painting advice, I weathered the armor with a sponge right after the photo in the previous post before I started on any of the other colors to prevent getting grey flecks on anything else by accident. I used to chip the armor much later in the painting progress, which caused the need for a LOT of touch ups, especially to the areas of skin where any stray grey really shows.
MrMerlin wrote:I've just found this blog at the top of the "most exalted" list. Wow. What a great blog. I LOVE your painting, the weathering is ace, I will DEFINETLY follow this one!
I missed your much appreciated comment for all this time since you must have posted just as I was editing my previous post! Glad to hear more people are discovering this blog through that channel. I'm still really happy that so many Dakka forum members rate this blog so highly!
@Cameron Baum: Choosing and fiddling with colors can absolutely consume entire days.
Haha, I feel the same about painting.... only once you have some color on every part of the mini and the weathering/highlighting starts the fun begins!
One huge benefit of this bodysuit brownish red color is that it's super easy to highlight. This picture shows what the bodysuits look like after just about two layers of highlights. I'll probably add one more layer with a tiny bit of Blood Red and Dwarf Flesh. Then I'll move onto the edge highlights. The photo also shows the first Ogryn Flesh Wash, the squad still needs another wash in the recesses of the skin areas.
In other news, I brought my camera down to the FLGS to take pictures of the completed twenty strong Hellion squad. I then realized that I had left the battery in the charger. I had also brought my new Battefoam PACK Air bag with me to see how everything fit. Picture quality mattered less for that so I borrowed a store employee's iPhone to take some pictures. He hasn't sent them to me yet but I'll post them once he does.
@MrMerlin&Swordwind: I've sometimes thought about commissioning painting services to paint minis to just this stage. But pretty much all the sample pictures from services that are relatively cheap don't look like they paint that neatly (which is understandable). Still, I wonder if they're good enough that I could just do the tidying up.
@DAWARBOSS: Thanks! It's cool whenever someone recognizes my army from Dakka!
Looking quite good MJ Might want to work a little on your defenitions though, you are slacking on the metallics you know. sharpen it up or I'll bring up that whole ''you can't paint at all ye weathering-fake!''-thing again.
Gotta get ready to leave for work! But here's an update on the Wyches. I just finished painting in and washing all the metallic details (silver bits with Boltgun Metal and Devlan Mud, copper bits with Dwarf Bronze and Vallejo Turquoise). Thought I would take a photo to show everyone how the mini's look before I start on the final edge highlights on the armor and bodysuits, as well as the highlights on the hair.
The wyches are looking really good. You mentioned washing with Boltgun Metal? It seems an intersting idea to shade metal, but wouldn't all the flakes of color settle into the recesses?
I've always found eyes to be one of the hardest parts of a miniature to paint. But every time I try to avoid the issue by just painting the eyes black or washing them the miniature ends up not looking quite "finished." It's probably because the face is such a focal point.
The method I use right now is to paint an eye is to first fill it in as a black oval and then to put one white dot at each end of the oval, leaving the pupil black in the center. After many months of practice I've at least gotten to the point that the eyes look good from about the one foot range, which is good enough for troops. If it's a character I'll pay more attention, but it already takes long enough to paint eyes that are not cross-eyed or sliding down a model's face! I think I've done at least a decent job since my digital camera recognized a lot of these as faces and switched into portrait mode!
@S'Jet: Take a look at the first page of this thread for the main thrust of the fluff for this army.
@SlaveToDorkness & prime12357: Dorkness has it right, I'm listing the color then the wash. Just remember, it's heresy to even think that there's anything better for shading silver metals than Devlan Mud!
So, I'm very happy with the way these girls look. They're just about the right balance of painting quality and painting fun. Meaning trying for even higher quality would require a level of effort that would make me enjoy the process less. I'm particularly satisfied with the highlights on the bodysuits. I managed to bring the highlights up to a much brighter level while maintaining the smoothness of the blends (mainly by being braver about the amount of Dwarf Flesh I added to my "bodysuit brown" mix).
Currently, I plan to use these models as proxy Harlequins in a 2000 point build. I've been running a build with three Beastmaster Squads with six Razorwing Flocks each and a squad of eight Harlequins with Kisses, all deploying out of a Webway Portal. The Harlequins let me put pressure on things that would strike before the Razorwings. It's an absolute joy to watch that many rending attacks sweeping across the board! However, the list's weakness is having the Portal bearer killed before the can drop it since the beast squads can't take much serious firepower (no Khymerae.) So I haven't really worked out what to do if I'm going second, but that's a common dilemma with Dark Eldar!
I'm going to try and build a lightbox soon. Right now I'm having a lot of trouble taking photos of some miniatures (like these) without picking up killer glare!
@Vitruvian XVII: Patience more than skill I think! I had to do quite a bit of touch up work on the skin because of stray brushstrokes from the eyes!
@LostSoulCasey'sLaw: Give it a try! It's really a lot easier than trying to put a dot in the exact center of the eye.
@MrMerlin: Traitor Guard would be great for face practice. There are lots of them and any weird looking ones will just be a result of mutation setting in!
@S'jet: Seen your blog, that's definitely a very respectable face painting challenge you've set yourself!
@monkeyh: Many years ago I used to much around a lot more with trying to do fancy shading on faces, but I've found that this cleaner look fits my painting style much better.
@TH3FALL3N: Thanks! I can't claim credit for that eye painting method though. I learned it off the internet years ago! I'm kind of interested to know who first did a tutorial for it though.
Awesome looking whyches.... I mean harlequins, lol!
You mentioned the fun/quality balance.... hehe, I'm painting my ork trukk with the same thing in mind.... I want it to look awesome and have fun while painting, so I'll skip some technices and use others more (sponge weathering is great fun )
Mechanicum Jon wrote:
@MrMerlin: Traitor Guard would be great for face practice. There are lots of them and any weird looking ones will just be a result of mutation setting in!
Mutated faces would be really good for practie, yes. But my guard didnt turn to chaos, they jut turned away from the imperium. They're pirates, with boring normal faces.....
Took some more photos of the girls. The pistols on some of their backs are a detail I'd like to point out because it took a surprisingly long time to find a logical place to put them! The fact that GW weapons are overscaled for dramatic effect is really highlighted by some poses. In particular I tried putting the pistols on a model's waist and realized that the barrel extended down past their knees! Those aren't Splinter Pistols, they're hand cannons!
Great new pictures, Jon, it really does them justice. Heroic scale kicks up a lot of problems, it's even more noticeable when you've worked on Infinity miniatures then gone back to Heroic scale. Not fun!
Ovion wrote:I know what you mean...I've got a selection of the classic splinter pistol holsters that I guard jealously, and am always on the hunt for more. I tend to angle them on the hip like a sword, or horizontally across the small of the back / waist. Still looking good though.
I totally forgot about those! I bought the 3rd Edition 40k Boxset years ago when the Dark Eldar were first introduced and still have sprues of the old Warriors. I dug them up today and spent some time rooting around the internet for ways to make them look better. I was not successful. They really show their age when compared with the new minis and are basically just a bit goofy looking unfortunately... A lot of classic models have their own unique charms but these old warriors just don't appeal to me. Any ideas? I've got a bunch and so do some of my friends.
Casey's Law wrote:Great new pictures, Jon, it really does them justice. Heroic scale kicks up a lot of problems, it's even more noticeable when you've worked on Infinity miniatures then gone back to Heroic scale. Not fun!
I generally don't have any issues with heroic scale. My main grip with scale in 40k is that I wish Marines were bigger, like many of the amazing truescale conversions people do. I flirt with buying some Infinity models occasionally, but what always stops me is that no one around here plays.
Not big on the truescale Space Marines that i've seen but i'd like to see what GW could do with the idea.
Infinity models are worth buying just to have their mind boggling beauty on your shelf. I'm using my first batch for making a Necromunda gang. Maybe you could proxy them for something? I converted a couple into Tau for my gang too.
Ovion wrote:I know what you mean...I've got a selection of the classic splinter pistol holsters that I guard jealously, and am always on the hunt for more. I tend to angle them on the hip like a sword, or horizontally across the small of the back / waist. Still looking good though.
I totally forgot about those! I bought the 3rd Edition 40k Boxset years ago when the Dark Eldar were first introduced and still have sprues of the old Warriors. I dug them up today and spent some time rooting around the internet for ways to make them look better. I was not successful. They really show their age when compared with the new minis and are basically just a bit goofy looking unfortunately... A lot of classic models have their own unique charms but these old warriors just don't appeal to me. Any ideas? I've got a bunch and so do some of my friends.
I use them as Kabalite Warriors, with the new casts being my Kabalite Trueborn.
I feel that it fits that only those of stature would get cooler armour
I'm not sure of anything inparticular you can really make them look cooler though...
But if you have a bunch on their sprues you don't want, my next goal is to make a DE Horde foot force with 120 Warriors and 30 Trueborn, and I currently only have 20 Warriors Meaning I'm about 140 short (120 base, 12 w/ Cannons, 12 w/ Lances, 6 w/ Blasters 6 Sybarites...), so I'd be happy to take them off your hands.
Funny that you should mention the Classic Dark Eldar Warriors. I had a box sitting on my shelf for about a year after it was given to me for free. The original was that I detail them up as Wracks since they're already so bulky. Compared to the new line of minis though, as you say, they just look so goofy rather than elegant and lithe. Looking at the kit it became clear to me why some people held the belief that prior to their extreme makeover, Dark Eldar were the most hideous model line produced by GW. Ended up round filing them as they just were too different and kooky looking.
Truescale marines on the other hand are truly golden models and it's a shame that the standard models don't match their proportions. Not only do they better represent what an Armoured 8-foot tall genetically engineered super soldier might look like, but with the extra surface area, think about how much more detail one could sculpt in or paint on. You could veritable frescos on the shin plates alone!
While on the subject of other inspiring models, I had the chance to see some Dystopian Wars aircraft carriers this week These suckers are fist-sized hunks of resin with an incredibly smooth base and they're just stuffed with detail! Crisp, hard-resined, 90% flash-free & bubble-free detail. How I wish the Wracks were produced in that resin...
Been sick with a cold for the past five days (or else my Haemonculi's new bioweapon has gotten a little out of hand...). It did mean I was able to get in a few brief sessions of painting a day when the medicines were working, these were in between the periods of lying shivering in bed. So the positive side of all of this is that I've proved that my painting techniques work for invalids! This is the final transport I'll be painting for the Drowned Gardens in the foreseeable future. With six Raiders and three Venoms, everyone who wants a ride can get one. I went for a simpler and curlier look to the runes this time, just for something a bit different (and easy to paint, since I didn't have the steadiest hands)!
@Dark_Gear & Casey's Law: Funny you guys should mention the two miniature lines I was just considering purchasing today since Maelstrom Games has a big sale. For Dystopian Wars I might spring for a few of their flying battleships, while for Infinity some of the Yu Jing mini's have caught my eye (the Oniwaban is particularly badass).
@Ovion: I'm up for a trade on the classic DE. We can discuss via PM. I can ask my friend too since he doesn't play 40k anymore (I know he's got at least a couple blisters of the old style blasters and dark lances) as well as the Warriors.
I really like the new style of runes, dude. Even the man flu cannot hinder your creative output!
You might want to consider buying a nice Infinity mini and planking it for a couple of days before you start on it. <cough>dakkapaintingcompetition</cough>
What? I didn't say anything.
The Dystopian Wars models look sweet, thanks for the heads up Dark_Gear!
The eyes on this pilot were somehow really easy to paint. I painted them black, put two dots of white in each eye to define the pupil and he was done. The was in contrast to some of the Wyches where I had to touch up the eyes and surrounding skin multiple times to get them looking right! I also finished the weathering on the main chassis, just missing the canopy and guns now.
@Casey's Law: Any suggestions on where to buy Infinity mini's online? Keeping in mind I'm in Hong Kong. Unfortunately I didn't get to Maelstrom Games fast enough, people have almost completely cleaned them out due to their big sale. The War Store's also out of a lot of stuff. I've heard Wayland Games recommended and they have stock but they don't have free shipping. Any other sites you'd recommend?
Another great model and a love the angle of the photograph.
As for buying Infinity miniatures, i've bought straight from Corvus Belli before and everything went well. I'm not sure how that would work for you in Hong Kong though.
http://www.corvusbelli.com/en/02_tienda.asp I now buy from a local seller which means i can get what i need quite quickly and i get to support his business. Hmm, he might ship internationally actually.
Yeah, he splits the boxes up too which means you can get specific models only available in sets. Because he opens the boxes he ships very cheaply:
ChoKonnit wrote:Postage to the US and A is £2, Europe is £1.50 and for uk is 75p (so long as I can fit it in a padded envelope). Anywhere else, I'll need to check (though usually it is £2).
@Casey's Law: Thanks for the tips. I looked on CB's site but they don't seem to list Hong Kong on their address drop down. They've got China but I've had problems getting orders delivered correctly to "Hong Kong, China"before so I'm a bit iffy on ordering from them. The outdated and somewhat nonsensical "Hong Kong, Hong Kong" address still works the best it seems. You local guy is offering a really cool service but for now I'm not looking for anything that specific out of a box.
I've mostly decided on an Aleph Sophotect as a first mini, just have to settle on where to get it!
@MrMerlin: At my usual leisurely pace it takes me about a week and a half to paint a Venom. That's of course not a count of hours spent because I don't keep track of that. If I had to guess I'd say about five to six hours or so.
Ah i see the problem. Cho sells the boxes too, if you get in touch with him hes pretty open to getting whatever you need. I'm sure he'd send it in the box if you didn't mind paying the higher postage price or he could take it out if you wanted to keep costs down.
It's amazing how quickly you paint these models considering the finished quality. Have any other projects taken your interest recently? Can we expect this blog to continue thrilling us for a long time?
Dude, great work again! don't you ever get sick of painting such beautiful mini's? that Venom is looking excellent as per your usual work and the Wyches look amazing all together like that!
you honestly have one of the nicest and most striking looking armies I've ever had the pleasure of seeing on Dakka!
I was sticking the splinter cannons on this Venom when I suddenly was sort of surprised that it was almost done! You've probably all seen those amazing guys who can solve Rubik's cubes super quickly because they know exactly what combination of twists they need for certain color combinations. I feel like I'm almost working at that level with this color scheme and the techniques needed to paint it. It still took time, effort and patience, but thinking back I don't think I experienced even a moment of stress or frustration with this Venom, which hasn't ever happened for me while painting a model. So in short, I had a moment of Zen while painting a poison dart spewing killing machine.
That being said, I'm done with Venoms for now. Unless someone wants to take advantage of my skill in painting this exact specific color scheme and commission me to paint up a bunch for them ! I'm sort of morbidly curious to see if I've gotten good enough with the process to do nine in a month (while keeping my day job of course and sleeping regular hours) .
Regarding these photos. I bought a large piece of black construction paper as an alternate backdrop for photos and I'm liking the effects. The blue shows up nicely.
@Casey's Law: There may be a bit of a lull when I get the Infinity mini's I've ordered and before 6th edition 40k comes out. I still plan on building slate bases for all the skimmers however so I can take a proper picture of the whole army.
@Swordwind: I didn't think of it either. Read it on the internet years ago!
@nerdfest09: Thank you, kind sir, for the complements .
Whoa, zen painting! Or should i say turquoise enlightenment?
The venom really is a testament to the time you've been practicing this scheme, it's perfectly executed.
Oh and when you get your Infinity models come down to the sub-forum and get involved, we have a load of cool stuff going on and your input would be sweet!
Nice choice on the backdrop, makes the blue "pop" more and the bases stand out more as well. The army is coming together nicely! This thread has made me visit Dakka more than any other.
Can fourteen year old miniatures, that have recently been superseded by what are widely regarded as some of the best sculpts GW has ever produced, be revived with modern painting techniques? After spending the day working with some of the old Dark Eldar miniatures, I'm beginning to think that the answer is a tentative yes. To be fair I still far prefer the new shiny Dark Eldar miniatures, but I don't think that this Warrior would look out of place on the tabletop with the rest of my army, a truly ancient warrior .
Despite my earlier misgivings about these models stated at the beginning of the thread, I've realized that that they do hold some nostalgic value to me. in particular, it's kind of neat to see how a lot of the design details from these old models got updated an incorporated into the new sculpts. I don't think I'll be painting many of these guys but I've decided that it would be kind of cool to have one small squad in the army (Ovion still probably gets everything minus one sprue!).
I'd be very interested in hearing what everyone thinks about this exercise!
@Casey's Law: I'll be sure to check in once the models arrive!
@asmodai650: Thanks for the complement! It always motivates me to post more when someone new lets me know they're following the thread.
@Moltar: Following on from the response above, it also motivates me to post more when someone lets me know they're liking my miniatures.
Oh my... How the hell did you make those models look good?!
You've made one of the worst models GW ever produced into something really amazing. These models would make a wonderful squad in your army they look amazing.
Beautiful work there MJ. Don't get me wrong, I be buying any myself, but then I know that I can't paint to your standard, which is the real appeal to these models and what really brings them to life. Would really like to see how a squad turns out!
MJ. Thank you. I recently gave a buddy of mine 30 bucks and he gave me an old Urien Rakarth, 4 warp beasts , 2 old raiders (Parts of the Dias of destruction),some old Mandrakes, Wyches, Incubi and about 100 old Kabalites.
I was just after the Urien and the beasts, but hey, a deals a deal. I 've been painting up the Kab's non-stop and I'm thinkin' to myself : "No one else would try and salvage this junk".Yet, I keep going at it. Then today, I see you are doing the same thing and I feel COMPLETELY justified. Thanks again for continued inspiration.
I really is amazing what a decent paintjob will do to a gak model. Casey's Law is one hundred percent correct. The old DE models are ugly as sin with a paintjob to boot. With some TLC in the form of paint, the improvement is stunning.
I think he turned out great as well. I think you should paint up a couple more, that way when the squishy Dark Eldar get killed you can remove them from play first. Leaving your newer, way cooler models on the battlefield.
So, it's very cool seeing the positive response to this test model! As happens to me a with a lot of miniatures, my opinion of this old Dark Eldar model improved markedly once I painted it. I think this is because when I look at a miniature that is new to me, meaning I haven't painted anything generally similar to it before, I judge it mainly based on the sculpt. Does the model project a strong personality? Is the pose or silhouette interesting? Is the detail crisp? etc. Seeing what other people have done with a model can definitely improve my impression of it (I was not moved to buy the new DE mini's until I saw some alternate color schemes). Yet, once I've painted a miniature, my value judgement shifts from "is this a good sculpt" towards "what can I do with this sculpt." If I end up with a paintjob I'm happy with I start to think "what else can I do with this sculpt," and start to like the miniature a lot more.
That end's today's moment of self reflection. On a related note, while this first test Warrior model turned out well, I'm working on a second Warrior (female this time with a standard splinter rifle) that I'm genuinely pleased with. To the point that I actually prefer the way she looks over some of my newer Warriors. A couple minor conversions (without using any modern bits) really made the model work for me. Stay tuned for pictures!
It's crazy, i'm not that into the new Dark Eldar(The fact that i'm here so often is a testament to your painting.) and i despised those old models but your paintjob on that old mini mixed with a little nostalgia has really made me want to paint up a squad of DE.
In fact i think i actually like those old models now. Who would've thunk it!
Honestly the old warriors were never that bad if you painted them with some patients. It's the OTHER models in that range IMO that were the nightmare. Cod piece wyches.... cod piece mandrakes..... COD PIECE NIGHTMARE! Stretchy skin masks.... OMG!
This might just be my favorite Dark Eldar helmet design. Which is surprised me since it started out as one of my least favorite helmet designs. Mainly, the old Dark Eldar helmet that looks like it's got Ginsu 2000 steak knives strapped to it's sides with the blades out. The tall helmet with the huge plume is just really characterful and gives a unique silhouette. Another feature of the model I think works well is the fact that she's standing much more upright than the modern Warriors. It makes her look like she's ready to step forward and kick some ass.
I did some minor green-stuffing detailing on the more armored leg because the original detail on the kneecap was looking more like a blob than a skull. I cut it off and replaced it with more scale plates.
@Red Corsair: That melted face Archon is one model I don't think anyone can do much to help. Out of the old range the Incubi are the only models that really still hold up.
@Casey's Law: Hey it only took me 14 years to get around to it.
As much as the old ones look awesome with an awesome paintjob, I think I still prefer the new ones. The difference is now I can make that judgement on a stylistic level, and not just on the comparison of the beauteous new DE line and the old DE line of which 90% was anathema to me. (I do hold a soft spot for the old Urian model, though) I'm going to echo whalemusic on this one though. The new paint really makes a difference.
I was digging through my pile of old White Dwarf magazines, looking for inspiration for painting and modeling the old Dark Eldar models and managed to dig up the issue for when the Codex first came out.
I remember these two pages very clearly because they showed me how you could get some really dynamic, varied posed out of similar models with minor conversions. However, like 80% of my gaming group back then (1 guy played IG), I was 100% a Marine player and never actually touched the boxed DE mini’s.
Dark Eldar used to be 10 pounds for 16 guys! I remember thinking back then that models were expensive, but looking at it now 40k used to actually be a reasonable hobby for kids to be getting into!
@Casey's Law: I'm sure they don't sell for much on ebay, and I think my tutorials have been coherent enough for you to replicate the painting...
@whalemusic360: I didn't think I could save them for ME! But I painting them did. Or else they might be covered in some sort of mind altering drug that diffuses through the skin when you hold them for awhile.
@prime12357: I know what you mean, that's why whenever I'm thinking of picking up a new miniature line I try to find examples of them painted to a variety of standards to see how well the sculpt holds up.
16 Dark Eldar Warriors for £10?
5 Wyches for £10?
Those were the days.
Awesome looking army! The colours all complement each other wonderfully, I'd be truly proud. I don't feel the old warriors look out of place, if only because of the paintjob. Still, totally useable.
Man, I loved that issue of WD! It helped me in building three boxes of warriors and having them look at least halfway interesting.
I also think there's still some great ideas in there: Still love the running models at the bottom of the left page.
Great to see that somebody out there is doing these supposedly horrible models some justice
WaaaaghLord wrote:16 Dark Eldar Warriors for £10? 5 Wyches for £10? Those were the days.
Awesome looking army! The colours all complement each other wonderfully, I'd be truly proud. I don't feel the old warriors look out of place, if only because of the paintjob. Still, totally useable.
Hey thanks for looking though the rest of the thread! These old models are definitely usable, but I've found that they need a bit more care when you're painting them because the detail isn't a well defined.
KrautScientist wrote:Man, I loved that issue of WD! It helped me in building three boxes of warriors and having them look at least halfway interesting. I also think there's still some great ideas in there: Still love the running models at the bottom of the left page. Great to see that somebody out there is doing these supposedly horrible models some justice
I'm a fan of any WD article that shows how people are having fun by converting models and not necessarily having to worry to much about the paint job. Nowadays there seem to be a lot fewer of those and so the internet has taken over that role for me. I also loved those running models!
Mechanicum Jon wrote: I'm a fan of any WD article that shows how people are having fun by converting models and not necessarily having to worry to much about the paint job. Nowadays there seem to be a lot fewer of those and so the internet has taken over that role for me.
That is so true! While they still sometimes run features on completed armies, interesting conversions and ideas have all but disappeared from WD and from the Codices. I can still remember a time when a new Codex was not also full of new rules and fluff, but also a repository for cool conversion ideas!
I also don't really understand the reason why they don't do this anymore: Converting models makes me buy kits I don't actually need for my army all the time, so it's a way of making more money for GW.
On the other hand, the Internet is fortunately full of fantastic ideas and inspiration. Like this thread
Yeah the old warriors could look okay with the right touch. I could have highlighted mine a bit better and I never got around to basing them, but they're weren't the ugliest thing on the field.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/gallery-viewimage.jsp?i=20287&m=2&w=800 I kinda miss the jagged little serration on top of the old splinter rifles. They added a certain look of... 'sting' to them.
Warping back into the modern era for a bit. I've made some fairly rapid progress towards equipping all my flying boats with state of the art rocky bases! Only two more to go! I really want to take some really high quality photos of the whole army once that's done (motivated by Eggroll and Gitsplitta)! But I'm not sure I can do that myself with my camera and lighting setup. I'm thinking of asking around my FLGS to see if anyone knows someone who can do that professionally, but I also don't know how much that would cost. Any advice or ideas?
@KrautScientist: GW's gotten a bit better with their What's New Today section of their website in showing off non-staff work, but it's still almost uniformly gorgeously painted. Sometimes it's more useful to see a conversion in it's raw form or to simply show off the work of artists whose skills (or interests) lie more on the converting side instead of painting. You wouldn't expect all great stone or pottery sculptors to be great painters as well after all .
@Casey's Law: You know, I've never actually used ebay before but now I'm thinking of catching up on White Dwarfs though it.
@Archonate: Wow, those Dark Eldar were yours! They are still some of the most striking mini's that come up when you put Dark Eldar as a search term into the Dakka Gallery. The flaming skulls look especially awesome on the Reavers!
@Regnak: I'm trying to come up with a color scheme for the Dakka Infinity Challenge and it's reminded me how lucky I was to stumble onto this one! It's really, really hard coming up with an original color scheme that works! It's even more amazing since by original I usually mean shamelessly ripped off something that's non-wargaming like a sports team but for my Dark Eldar I honestly didn't take this combination of colors off any one reference!
@leohart: The bases take some time but are actually straightforward to make:
1. Assemble the flying base normally.
2. Make a flat sheet of Milliput putty (you can roll it out but I squash it flat between two tiles lubricated with Vaseline).
3. Wait overnight for the Milliput to dry.
4. Break slabs off with pliers.
5. Drill a hole in any slabs you want the flight stem to go through.
6. Attach the slabs to the flying base with more Milliput.
So much progress to catch up on...I'm loving the new bases. The army shot waaay back on page 24 is inspiring...I want to get my guys to that size now! If there are no local amateurs who can help with taking a large scale shot, maybe see if one of those smaller photography studios (the ones normally taking photos of babies ) and see if they would like to have a change of pace? Their cameras should be up to the task, so long as you get a digital copy of the picture.
Oh, and the old DE are bringing back memories...memories of trying to pick up my guys as a young lad and getting damn near poked to death by pointy bits
This Blog May Be On Hiatus For Infinity(the game) Just a heads up that since I'm taking part in the current Dakka Dakka painting challenge I may be updating this blog a bit less regularly than usual. I wish I could put up some WIP photos of the Infinity miniature I'm painting but that's against the rules!
I started this blog with ten of these Hellions and now nine more have joined the Kabal! I still think that this is one of the most visually impressive units in the game, it's a shame that they're so easily overshadowed by Beasts when I run them. But then again, Beasts are one of the best units in the game so maybe it's not a fair comparison!
@Dark_Gear, Leohart & Vituvian XVII: There are several sets of WIP photos of the bases earlier in the blog that show the Milliput "pancakes." Vituvian's got it right, it's Milliput brand Epoxy Putty. I've used about ten sticks of the stuff on this army!
@Vanq: Thanks for the tips, I'll ask around! I was looking through more old While Dwarf magazines and more than one article on the old Dark Eldar mentions getting poked!
When they're all gathered together this way, what really stands is the silhouette of these models. GW has really done an amazing job of giving the whole Dark Eldar army a very striking and unique profile. Merely by looking at the contours, one gets an impression of speed and lethality. The only other army that even comes close to having such a recognisable and aggressive profile are the Nids. The majority of the shapes in their outline seem like they were designed with purpose. In comparison, most armies either look like boxes (IG, Tau), lumps (Marines) or lumps with spikes (Chaos).
When you manage to find a colour scheme that makes the model itself stand out as much as it's silhouette, that's when you have a truely stunning army, which is exactly what you've achieved John.
Can't wait to see what you come up with for Infinity models.
They look cool Jon. And wow, 10 sticks of milliput?
I was also planning to enter the Infinity challenge, but as my model hasnt arrived yet, that may not happen. Oh well, still a nice model for me to paint =)
Aj,
i stumbled on to this after reading your battle report and seeing some of your awesomely painted models. Everything is very well done. I keep looking at my box of Dark Eldar and think i need to paint them, oh is there an update or an faq that allows you to run more raqzorwing flocks or something cuase when i poke around on army builder they get mad if you go over two.
Thanks for all the comments on the Hellions guys! I'll respond to each individually a bit later today.
I played a couple of great games over the weekend against Space Marines and Imperial Guard. I decided to bring my camera along so I could share some photos of interesting moments. I took some photos early in the games, but as they got more exciting I stopped taking photos because I was concentrating on playing! Still, I thought I’d upload these to show how the Kabal looks on the tabletop.
Here’s the first game against the Hawk Lords. Despite going second I had a lucky first turn, although two Raiders exploded everything else was completely untouched.
I then decided to play much more aggressively than I usually do for a change. Hence, all the stuff on his side of the board! Usually all that gets me is a close range roasting by meltaguns but this time a couple Raiders somehow survived two turns of close range melta and krak grenade assaults! Rolling a pair of 5s for Flickerfield saves against two melta hits is one of the most satisfying things in the game.
I particularly like these photos because they show how I prefer 40k to be played. That is, a game where both armies are willing and able to move very dynamically and there are points of interest and conflict happening all over the table.
A final photo of the Space Marine Captain fighting against “impossible” odds. I put “impossible” in quotes because he won that combat in one round. Toughness five + Artificer Armor + Strom Shield + Relic Blade = Ouch.
The second game was against fully mechanized IG. Two events stood out. One was the Platoon Commander killing Sara over two rounds of close combat before consolidating into within 6 inches of a fleeing Beastmaster unit to prevent them from rallying. We both agreed that he deserved a posthumous medal of some sort. The second was me ramming a Raider at full speed into the side of a Manticore, destroying the missile launcher and surviving!
The game ended with us tied on table quarters. He had 6 multi-laser shots to kill a turbo-boosting Raider, 1 penetrating hit got through and he rolled a 3. +1 for being open topped meant immobilized, immobilized meant wrecked and failing to contest. Objectives were tied as well and he won on Killpoints by 16 to 9.
I’ve found that it’s often fairly difficult for Dark Eldar to get Killpoints off vehicle heavy armies. The lack of much melta means you often end the game with your opponent having a lot of weapon destroyed and immobilized vehicles that aren’t dead because you just can’t roll those fives or sixes.
But anyway, any game that goes down to the last victory condition is generally a really good one by me!
Sounds like you've had a good weekend. It's nice to hear that your raider ram worked out well. It seems that whenever I give it a whirl, it ends badly. Doesn't stop me trying though, nothing is as satisfying as zooming across the table into the side of an unlucky tank, exploding it and then making your flickerfield save What lists were you running here?
. However this might actually be my favorite time in the painting process. It's when I've finally gotten all the fundamentals out of the way and can start work on the details. While I used to completely detail some parts of a miniature before painting the rest of it, I now find it more motivating to finish base-coating the entire miniature first because it makes the miniature seem more complete.
I really like how the blue face plates turned out, given that I had considered painting them bronze. They make a nice focal point for the miniature. I'll probably paint a few more at some point (I'd like to try out the special weapons, especially the liquifier) but right now I'm just running them as two squads of three for cheap objective grabbers.
Great Wracks, knew they'd come out well. What's your next project?
The Wracks I plan to use in every build of my army. At 10 points each for a durable Troops choice I can seldom find a reason not to include at least one small squad in each list. Today I tried out two small squads of three in shock-prow equipped Raiders and they did very well. I put the Wracks in reserve and boosted the Raiders around tank shocking things and actually managed to run a squad of five bikes with and attached attack bike off the table! I then charged a squad of three Wracks into another bike squad and found that nine poisoned attacks can be surprisingly effective given that it's not easy for non-combat specialists to win combats against them. The Grotesques would be mostly for fun. Although I do dream of running a squad of ten with Lady Malys.
It was a combination of either me rolling really poorly for scatter distance or my opponents rolling really well for armor and cover saves.
These suckers are fist-sized hunks of resin with an incredibly smooth base and they're just stuffed with detail! Crisp, hard-resined, 90% flash-free & bubble-free detail. How I wish the Wracks were produced in that resin...
So the positive side of all of this is that I've proved that my painting techniques work for invalids! This is the final transport I'll be painting for the Drowned Gardens in the foreseeable future. With six Raiders and three Venoms, everyone who wants a ride can get one. I went for a simpler and curlier look to the runes this time, just for something a bit different (and easy to paint, since I didn't have the steadiest hands)!
