-The 4th End Times book will be the First Release for 2015, in early January.
-The Book features Skaven and includes new rules for Battles in Dungeons.
-End Times Book 5 will come later, possibly after the next Edition is released.
Kanluwen wrote: Remember that time when BoLS said that after Nagash was going to be the new edition?
After Glottkin?
After Khaine?
Take it with a huge grain of salt. The fact that they have no title makes me question this.
It falls in line with all speculation and every other rumor. I will go on record saying that the next book is going to be skaven simply because I can guess correctly...............Take it with a grain of salt but its less a rumor and more like "duh"
BoLS hasn't "been right about release dates thus far".
Someone submitting information to them has been right about release dates--and even then, those release dates are a reason to be skeptical as sometimes they're posted after someone else has put forward a timeframe.
You have to understand that sites like BoLS or Faeit or Naftka aren't truly generating these rumors/tidbits. They're a dropbox for rumors--and sometimes people just make crap up and throw it to them, only to be right by accident.
Steve the Warboss currently tracks as a little over 50% true, and it is worth noting that some of his BA rumours haven't been updated yet by Pretre, but are spectacularly off the money.
Kanluwen wrote: Remember that time when BoLS said that after Nagash was going to be the new edition?
After Glottkin?
After Khaine?
Take it with a huge grain of salt. The fact that they have no title makes me question this.
Link ? I read BOLS a lot, and yes, they take every rumor out there and put it in a blog post, but I don't recall them stating that after (fill in end times book here) there would be a new edition.
I do recall them stating that 9th was coming either late 14 or up to half way through 15, but those were rumor reposts from others, not them proffering the rumors directly.
I could be wrong, i'd just like to see a link of it is all before we go insinuating that BOLS doesn't have reliable gaming news.
tarnish wrote: Dont play skaven, never felt like painting 200+ clan rats, but if this new book has a viable way around that i might give them a go.
Mordheim man; all the vermin'y goodness but max out at 20 models. You get Eshin in the rulebook, there's a pretty balanced experimental warband for Pestilens, a Skryre one floating around I've not tried, and I put together Clan Moulder rules myself(limited playtesting so far, hard to get a game in my area ). Best of all the rules are all totally free
As for the new ET book, despite my pathological hatred of the new fluff the models have almost all been fantastic and none have been terrible, so hopefully Skaven get something interesting beyond just the mandatory gigantic kit.
As for the new ET book, despite my pathological hatred of the new fluff the models have almost all been fantastic and none have been terrible, so hopefully Skaven get something interesting beyond just the mandatory gigantic kit.
So mandatory that the Elf book saw no new models released...
tarnish wrote: Dont play skaven, never felt like painting 200+ clan rats, but if this new book has a viable way around that i might give them a go.
200+ clanrats is the least of your worries. Each of those clanrats consists of, on average, 3 or 4 bits = 800 FETHING bits to file and glue!
In the dark corners of Dakka, there is a dungeon where the mods imprison people who incur their wrath. One of the torments to drive you mad is the task of creating a 5000 point Skaven army.
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Danielilr wrote: I'm wondering if Thanquol will have a large number to learn.
Personally, I hope Thanquol gets written out the game. In my view, he's one of the most feeble, Scooby do style villains in the game. I won't miss him.
My friend runs 0 slaves and has won every game. You don't need the Internet chump list to win with skaven.
Grey seer on bell, HPA (with magical upgrade), Doom Wheel, Plague Monks w/ Furnace, 40 man block of clan rats with Bell, storm vermin with storm banner, engineer with rocket, 2 units of censer bearers. Not sure what else, but it hasn't lost a game yet, and he's taken it to all local tournaments and multiple state tournaments. Everyone expects the 200 slaves. Mix it up and give em something they don't see coming.
tarnish wrote: Dont play skaven, never felt like painting 200+ clan rats, but if this new book has a viable way around that i might give them a go.
200+ clanrats is the least of your worries. Each of those clanrats consists of, on average, 3 or 4 bits = 800 FETHING bits to file and glue!
They're only 2 parts actually. 3 if you give them shields.
But yeah Skaven are one of the armies I'm considering, and the large amount of models is definitely a con for them.
Yeah, but that's still 400 or 600 bits to file and glue
Good luck with your Skaven force - I have respect for anybody who can go the distance and put together a large Skaven army. I have tried and failed 3 times
timetowaste85 wrote: My friend runs 0 slaves and has won every game. You don't need the Internet chump list to win with skaven.
Grey seer on bell, HPA (with magical upgrade), Doom Wheel, Plague Monks w/ Furnace, 40 man block of clan rats with Bell, storm vermin with storm banner, engineer with rocket, 2 units of censer bearers. Not sure what else, but it hasn't lost a game yet, and he's taken it to all local tournaments and multiple state tournaments. Everyone expects the 200 slaves. Mix it up and give em something they don't see coming.
timetowaste85 wrote: My friend runs 0 slaves and has won every game. You don't need the Internet chump list to win with skaven.
Grey seer on bell, HPA (with magical upgrade), Doom Wheel, Plague Monks w/ Furnace, 40 man block of clan rats with Bell, storm vermin with storm banner, engineer with rocket, 2 units of censer bearers. Not sure what else, but it hasn't lost a game yet, and he's taken it to all local tournaments and multiple state tournaments. Everyone expects the 200 slaves. Mix it up and give em something they don't see coming.
I run something similar, came in second at a local tournament. Though I don't mind working on 200 Clan Rats, I enjoy my Skaven army. If you want to punish me, make me work with Restic.
Super excited about an End Times Skaven book, should be great!
tarnish wrote: Dont play skaven, never felt like painting 200+ clan rats, but if this new book has a viable way around that i might give them a go.
200+ clanrats is the least of your worries. Each of those clanrats consists of, on average, 3 or 4 bits = 800 FETHING bits to file and glue!
They're only 2 parts actually. 3 if you give them shields.
But yeah Skaven are one of the armies I'm considering, and the large amount of models is definitely a con for them.
Yeah, but that's still 400 or 600 bits to file and glue
Good luck with your Skaven force - I have respect for anybody who can go the distance and put together a large Skaven army. I have tried and failed 3 times
Yeahhhh was just trying to make it seem better haha. I haven't decided if I'm going to do them or not. I love the models (Stormvermin are my favourite core unit in the game) but you need so many!
I don't think anything fit with them. All the races left seem to be odd ones out (except Humans obviously).
I've heard the book will be about Skaven and Lizardmen, and I don't see anyway they would work together (I mean all the fluff about them is about how much they hate each other...)
ImAGeek wrote: I don't think anything fit with them. All the races left seem to be odd ones out (except Humans obviously).
I've heard the book will be about Skaven and Lizardmen, and I don't see anyway they would work together (I mean all the fluff about them is about how much they hate each other...)
Although I'm not sure how true that rumour is.
All the fluff about the Dark Elves was about how much they hated the High Elves. Look how that turned out.
ImAGeek wrote: I don't think anything fit with them. All the races left seem to be odd ones out (except Humans obviously).
I've heard the book will be about Skaven and Lizardmen, and I don't see anyway they would work together (I mean all the fluff about them is about how much they hate each other...)
Although I'm not sure how true that rumour is.
All the fluff about the Dark Elves was about how much they hated the High Elves. Look how that turned out.
Yeah, but they were still the same race, and United under one strong leader, and they were still infighting until Malekith won (I think, I haven't read it yet). I just can't see any fluff that would make sense for LM and Skaven to work together.
If they make a horned rat model my money is theirs. I bet the Skaven will finally unite to some degree and start attacking all over the old world. Or go finish off the dwarves or Lizardmen.
Between this and the Shield of Baal stuff, I just cant keep up money-wise. I can't miss out on this book, but I've got to somehow justify it to my wife....on top of the Shield of Baal: Exterminatus book that is supposed to go up for pre-order tomorrow!
Would really like to see Skaven get their last few units updated in plastic kits...weapons teams, jezzails, globadiers, censer bearers, night/gutter runners, and a few plastic heroes - assassin, warlock engineer, warlord? Thanquol, Bone Ripper and with a Great Horned Rat kit make a lot of sense for End Times, those would have been my educated guess as well. Though I much prefer Skrolk and clan pestilens thematically over Thanquol...and would make more sense if the book centers around Lizardmen/Lustria at all....I have a strong feeling though, that they want the center of action to be the Old World - across all of the End Times books - who knows, maybe we will get Skrolk as well anyway...We did get a couple of character general kits with Nagash...
Any way you slice it, it's a good time to be a Skaven player.
Still, I'm curious if Ocs/Goblins, Ogre Kingdoms, or Lizardmen will get any attention...my speculation would be Orcs and Goblins (maybe Ogre Kingdoms tied in in some way) for book 5 with some cool Dwarf stuff tied in...maybe a new incarnation of a prominent dwarf hero (Like they did with Karl Franz)...Though I have heard rumors of the last book centering on the alliance of men and dwarves...Empire/Bretonnia/Dwarf as a single army with some new heroes? Interesting times...
squidhills wrote: So when do Beastmen get an End Times release? That's what I'd like to know.
They won't get one probably. Chaos has already had a book, and a second Chaos book will be about Archaon, there won't be anything beastmen specific, it'll be the Legions of Chaos again.
squidhills wrote: So when do Beastmen get an End Times release? That's what I'd like to know.
They won't get one probably. Chaos has already had a book, and a second Chaos book will be about Archaon, there won't be anything beastmen specific, it'll be the Legions of Chaos again.
Color me surprised. It's like GW want to pretend Beastmen aren't an army any more. WoC get love. Daemons get love. Beasts? Nada. Actually, it seems like they are trying to pretend Nurgle is the only Chaos god, too (how many non-Nurgle models in the Chaos End Times book?).
Fango wrote: Would really like to see Skaven get their last few units updated in plastic kits...weapons teams, jezzails, globadiers, censer bearers, night/gutter runners, and a few plastic heroes - assassin, warlock engineer, warlord?
I would actually break my vows of non-GW purchasing for the kit as highlighted in green. I would pay stupid money for it too.
squidhills wrote: So when do Beastmen get an End Times release? That's what I'd like to know.
They won't get one probably. Chaos has already had a book, and a second Chaos book will be about Archaon, there won't be anything beastmen specific, it'll be the Legions of Chaos again.
Color me surprised. It's like GW want to pretend Beastmen aren't an army any more. WoC get love. Daemons get love. Beasts? Nada. Actually, it seems like they are trying to pretend Nurgle is the only Chaos god, too (how many non-Nurgle models in the Chaos End Times book?).
Well to be fair, they got improvements in the Glotkin book, and they were featured in the story. I don't think they're any more neglected than other armies.
Fango wrote: Between this and the Shield of Baal stuff, I just cant keep up money-wise. I can't miss out on this book, but I've got to somehow justify it to my wife....on top of the Shield of Baal: Exterminatus book that is supposed to go up for pre-order tomorrow!
Would really like to see Skaven get their last few units updated in plastic kits...weapons teams, jezzails, globadiers, censer bearers, night/gutter runners, and a few plastic heroes - assassin, warlock engineer, warlord? Thanquol, Bone Ripper and with a Great Horned Rat kit make a lot of sense for End Times, those would have been my educated guess as well. Though I much prefer Skrolk and clan pestilens thematically over Thanquol...and would make more sense if the book centers around Lizardmen/Lustria at all....I have a strong feeling though, that they want the center of action to be the Old World - across all of the End Times books - who knows, maybe we will get Skrolk as well anyway...We did get a couple of character general kits with Nagash...
Any way you slice it, it's a good time to be a Skaven player.
Still, I'm curious if Ocs/Goblins, Ogre Kingdoms, or Lizardmen will get any attention...my speculation would be Orcs and Goblins (maybe Ogre Kingdoms tied in in some way) for book 5 with some cool Dwarf stuff tied in...maybe a new incarnation of a prominent dwarf hero (Like they did with Karl Franz)...Though I have heard rumors of the last book centering on the alliance of men and dwarves...Empire/Bretonnia/Dwarf as a single army with some new heroes? Interesting times...
That's why you have to join the movement and give up on 40k.
squidhills wrote: So when do Beastmen get an End Times release? That's what I'd like to know.
They won't get one probably. Chaos has already had a book, and a second Chaos book will be about Archaon, there won't be anything beastmen specific, it'll be the Legions of Chaos again.
Who says it won't have anything Beastmen specific?
If you read Khaine, the Beastmen are regrouping in record numbers--even with all three of the Elven nations banding together to make "Beastmen Hunting" an Olympic sport.
squidhills wrote: So when do Beastmen get an End Times release? That's what I'd like to know.
They won't get one probably. Chaos has already had a book, and a second Chaos book will be about Archaon, there won't be anything beastmen specific, it'll be the Legions of Chaos again.
Who says it won't have anything Beastmen specific?
If you read Khaine, the Beastmen are regrouping in record numbers--even with all three of the Elven nations banding together to make "Beastmen Hunting" an Olympic sport.
Well I assumed he meant Beastmen specific. That's what I was saying, that if they're featured again it will be in another chaos book, not a specific one to them.
Fango wrote: Would really like to see Skaven get their last few units updated in plastic kits...weapons teams, jezzails, globadiers, censer bearers, night/gutter runners, and a few plastic heroes - assassin, warlock engineer, warlord?
I would actually break my vows of non-GW purchasing for the kit as highlighted in green. I would pay stupid money for it too.
Sadly it does seem like the ET stuff is following GW's recent pattern of ignoring the often atrocious looking outdated models in their range in favour of inventing random new-shiny units, presumably because the glorified middle-managers in charge don't have enough confidence in their products to believe they'd sell to players who already own the crappy old ones.
Yeah, I would love for them to redo some more rank and file miniatures. Imo it's some of what GW does best... other companies have long since surpassed them on character sculpts, and GW's huge advantage (being able to sculpt and tool for polystyrene models) really doesn't do anything for characters, which can look better in resin/metal with more undercuts.
Still, really hoping for a new edition of fantasy next year that is awesome, on the heels of End Times. No way I'm buying FIVE separate End Times books towards that end, though
They won't get one probably. Chaos has already had a book, and a second Chaos book will be about Archaon, there won't be anything beastmen specific, it'll be the Legions of Chaos again.
I actually reckon Archaon will appear in a book about someone else, in the same way as Valten and KFA.
Probably in the combined "Armies of Man" list that will inevitably come.
squidhills wrote: So when do Beastmen get an End Times release? That's what I'd like to know.
They won't get one probably. Chaos has already had a book, and a second Chaos book will be about Archaon, there won't be anything beastmen specific, it'll be the Legions of Chaos again.
Color me surprised. It's like GW want to pretend Beastmen aren't an army any more. WoC get love. Daemons get love. Beasts? Nada. Actually, it seems like they are trying to pretend Nurgle is the only Chaos god, too (how many non-Nurgle models in the Chaos End Times book?).
They've had an excessive love for Nurgle and Khorne for decades now, at the expense of Tzeentch and Slaanesh. Nothing new. They'll sometimes throw T and S a bone, here or there, but that's about it.
If it's anything like Nagash or Glotkin, they have my money too. I would also love Lord Skrolk redone in plastic. But I'm a Pestilens guy. I'm guessing though that they covered what they were going to cover plague-wise.
ET: Skaven will probably be the first and only ET purchase I make. Would love a new Vermin Lord (my metal dude will not stay together), but as others have said, updated models for Gutter Runners/Night Runners is pretty much top of my list.
Darnok over on Warseer posted the following:
"Next ET book is focussing on Skaven, release on 10th of January (advance order up on the 2nd). Thanquol and Boneripper will be a big kit, a new Vermin Lord, some kind of new unit (no details here sadly) and two clampack characters."
Regarding the new unit, I could see it being a two-in-one kit with one of the still finecast units from the existing book. Censor bearers/gutter-runners/globadiers. Similarly, there is hope that Thanquol's boneripper will become a ridden mount that also can be assembled as the mount rat-ogre.
On a totally OT note: When did rumours get so serious? Rumour tracking? Whatever happened to, "Wow, if this turns out to be true, it will be exciting! If it doesn't, oh well."
Darnok also corrected the rumor by moving the release by a week, so the 9th is pre-order.
I would love to see some Jezzails or gutter runners.
The Skaven tide should be awesome. They were my first ever army alongside Empire so lets see if I can resist making a new one when the new book comes out. I am already about to finish my chaos and undead legions due to the new books so chances of resisting are low.
Im still not convinced Skaven get a book, at least not one that comes with a bunch of rules for them, just doesnt fit with the pattern of the first 3 consolidating multiple lists into a single one.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: Darnok over on Warseer posted the following:
"Next ET book is focussing on Skaven, release on 10th of January (advance order up on the 2nd). Thanquol and Boneripper will be a big kit, a new Vermin Lord, some kind of new unit (no details here sadly) and two clampack characters."
Regarding the new unit, I could see it being a two-in-one kit with one of the still finecast units from the existing book. Censor bearers/gutter-runners/globadiers. Similarly, there is hope that Thanquol's boneripper will become a ridden mount that also can be assembled as the mount rat-ogre.
On a totally OT note: When did rumours get so serious? Rumour tracking? Whatever happened to, "Wow, if this turns out to be true, it will be exciting! If it doesn't, oh well."
Skaven have no clampack plastics yet, and loads of characters that could be likely candidates...I'm guessing some type of Grey Seer, and perhaps a Warlock Engineer...or my bias towards clan Pestilens has me thinking maybe a Lord Skrolk/Plague Priest clampack could be a possibility. As far as a unit is concerned, the only one that makes sense as a dual kit is the Night/Gutter Runners...and if that is the case...I could see Deathmaster Snikch/Assassin as one of the clampacks. Last possibility is they could re-do the Plague Monks and make it a dual kit with Censor Bearers...and charge $60 for it like they did with the DE Witch Elves... Whatever it is they get, they've sold at least one of each to me already
Aslong as it gives me something new or a way to twist the army list a bit then im happy.
Give me some form of monster unit or even armoured rat ogres and i will be over the moon.
Going back some years a WD published a moulder list with a variation of rat ogres with different equipment/rules.
Something like this even as a small unit would be nice since currently, they look ace but are hopeless :(
Kanluwen wrote: Not really. "The Avatar of Khaine" for WHFB was just Tyrion.
Man, such an anti-climax. GW really could have made some good money if they'd brought out some new kick ass models.
They didn't even have to make a new model. Just classify Tyrion as a Monster, give him appropriate stats, and recommend a base size, and people would have bought the Eldar Avatar in droves.
Mind you, if they do update the Gutter Runners and reduce the price of Jezzails to something reasonable (Seriously, they are at what - £10.00 per model atmo) I may not be able to resist. And if they bring out a model of the Horned Rat..... Well my money will be theirs.
I do hope that Thanquol does not die. He is a fun character and pretty useful too. And as for his backstory and tie-ins with Gotrek and Felix (my two other favourite characters in WHFB) he is a great and rather fun character.
Malika2 wrote: Hmm, maybe so, but the current Avatar is a 2nd edition era model, an update would have been nice...
The Forge World version is really good (if a bit expensive), and is likely a big part of the reason we haven't seen a new plastic sculpt. They even used that model for the last Eldar supplement, Valedor.
3 of the last 5 fantasy releases were the Elves! Wood Elves were the last army released. Pretty sure if they released new models for End Times, people would have crapped all over GW for "taking things out of the book to release later".
streamdragon wrote: 3 of the last 5 fantasy releases were the Elves! Wood Elves were the last army released. Pretty sure if they released new models for End Times, people would have crapped all over GW for "taking things out of the book to release later".
Not really. A new big centrepiece model like all the other End Times releases wouldn't have been in the army book anyway. A new Malekith on his dragon for example.
Undead got the three lieutenants, Nagash, two new unit types and new Spirit Host models. Chaos got a new unit type, Glotkin, three lieutenants again and another new special character. A big centrepiece for Elves would hardly be too much to ask for even with the last army book released (bearing in mind that was a while ago and there has been two books between them, Nagash and Glotkin, which changed the armies up).
streamdragon wrote: 3 of the last 5 fantasy releases were the Elves! Wood Elves were the last army released. Pretty sure if they released new models for End Times, people would have crapped all over GW for "taking things out of the book to release later".
They could have done new High Elf infantry sculpts, Naestra and Arahan on their Forest Dragon, a new Malekith or a new Imrik...
streamdragon wrote: 3 of the last 5 fantasy releases were the Elves! Wood Elves were the last army released. Pretty sure if they released new models for End Times, people would have crapped all over GW for "taking things out of the book to release later".
They could have done new High Elf infantry sculpts, Naestra and Arahan on their Forest Dragon, a new Malekith or a new Imrik...
New Alith-Anar model would have been fantastic.
Naestra and Arahan on their dragon would have been awesome, because they could've included normal Highborn parts and us Wood Elves could finally have a plastic dragon. But any of them would have been welcome.
There's quite literally a ton of things that could have been released for High or Wood Elves that wouldn't have stepped on the toes of the book release.
Kanluwen wrote: There's quite literally a ton of things that could have been released for High or Wood Elves that wouldn't have stepped on the toes of the book release.
For example, plastic Waywatchers...
Well none of those options had entries in for new rules in the end times book.
If anything a new malekith and imrik and tyrion that is about it.
Granted spirit hosts got new models without new rules in end times nagash.
I'm still waiting for more info I wish it would come sooner. Its been said new thanqoul and boneripper and a plastic vermin lord forever. I want some details haha
I'm just going to buy the book tho for now (hardcover from my flgs) when it comes out. Don't really want to shell out the cash for it but I will because.....skaven lol
Breotan wrote: BoLS is like the metaphoric broken clock that's right twice a day. Everything pointing to Skaven anyway makes this a pretty safe rumor to monger.
I don't care too much about Bols and their speculations.
It's not the best site in town.
On the plus side, i may see the point of running clanrats/slaves soon depending on the release.
I have always ran pure stormvermin as my troops as for skaven, they are quite solid for rats.
Throw in queek for good measure and upgrade his unit and they are pretty damn good.
Fast at chewing through tarpit units too.
Something fast for the rats would be nice though.
They have wolf rats, why not make use of them in packs or as mounts?
They need a quick moving unit even if it is fodder.
Yeah cheaper jezzails would be nice. Still holding out hope for jetpack skaven at some point. Just make it happen. Jetpack skaven with dual warplock pistols. That would be so freaking boss.
I could actually see the vermin lord getting use in current games for some reason as long as it's against certain elf armies. These avoidance lists are making it pretty freaking needed at this point to have either a vermin lord, jezzails or warlocks with warp lightning.
Well just an update on something I noticed:
New web bundle out (maybe its been out for a while?)
Warlord is no longer available
French army book no longer available (maybe means new army book in the near future?)
Few things currently out of stock I.e plague monks but I don't see that being a big deal
Also read there will be these new models (although I'm skeptical)
Thanqoul and boneripper large kit
Vermin lord large kit
Nurglitch kit
Skrolk kit
Grey seer kit
Rat ogre kit
Plague censor/globadier dual kit
I think that thanqoul and boneripper will be one kit same with the vermin lord. They will have to have a warlord kit (since the current one is no longer available) maybe they will do something similar to the mortarch kits? Not sure.
Dual kit would be nice tho but I have my doubts.
The ET 4 release will probably start with the WD issue released on the 3rd of January 2015. The next WD (27th of Dec) has the following on its last page
Forge World
Color splash
They come from the depths
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: On a totally OT note: When did rumours get so serious? Rumour tracking? Whatever happened to, "Wow, if this turns out to be true, it will be exciting! If it doesn't, oh well."
In 2012 things got serious after a spate of complete jerks who made up a bunch of crap to become internet famouse (Ghost21, TDG, etc.) A lot of people got their hopes up after these folks came through and nothing they said was even remotely close to true. What this means is that it is nice to know that when Lords of Wargaming says something it is probably true and you should get excited. When Natfka/BOLS say something, feel free to roll your eyes and yawn, however.
Darnok has given the following information on Warseer today
End Times: Thanquol
Quote Originally Posted by Birdy
10th (preorders Fri 2nd) is a blood angels army box with perhaps a new clam pack character in called the sanguine strike force for 105 GBP don't know contents though plus the new vermin lord.
17th Thanquol end times book and mini
24th new unit, armoured rat ogres called stormfiends plus clam pack warlord and grey seer and re release of old I think in metal oddly warlock engineers
Merry Christmas-Christmas.
Darnok is usually spot on with his rumors so that is how the End Times IV release should look like
Darnok on Warseer - source seems to be the first White Dwarf in 2015, released on January 3rd
Re: End Times: Thanquol
Oh, I just got another message!
Quote Originally Posted by Another Birdy
Seen white dwarf for 2 weeks time and it had the vermin lord in there, it is the same size as Nagash, leaping up off the base, and has 5 different variants, one for each of the clans, eshin, pestilence etc. looks absolutely amazing!
This sounds pretty good to me. If this is accurate, I guess a lot of Skaven players will be parted with their money soon.
"Plastic Vermin Lord to make 5 different kits in white dwarf 49.
white dwarf 2 weeks from now will feature the release of a plastic
vermin lord kit, will make 5 alternate models with different themes. 1
Eshin, 1 Grey Seer, 1 Warlord, 1 Moulder and one supposed "Vermin King".
Eshin one can be skitterleapt and gets re-rolls to cast skitterleap, grey
seer one always gets 6 on the d6+1 part of warp lightning casts. No further
information about the others or point costs, but alledgedly he's going to
be about the same dimesnsions as Nagash"
Now I assume the vermin king will just be another vermin lord model. If it ends up being a 5 in 1 kit I'm wondering what the variations are going to look like especially if they all have some sort of mount? Regardless I'm excited to get new skaven stuff and hopefully some pictures come out soon!
streamdragon wrote: Why in the world would the Vermin Lord, an emissary of the Great Horned Rat himself, take up the mannerisms of a skaven clan?
That would be like a Great Unclean One showing up differently for Chaos Daemons vs Nurgle aligned Chaos Space Marines vs actual Death Guard.
They might be making the Vermin Lord closer to something like the Eldar Avatar in terms of background, where a member of the Craftworld sacrifices themselves to become the vessel...
streamdragon wrote: Why in the world would the Vermin Lord, an emissary of the Great Horned Rat himself, take up the mannerisms of a skaven clan?
That would be like a Great Unclean One showing up differently for Chaos Daemons vs Nurgle aligned Chaos Space Marines vs actual Death Guard.
You're forgetting GW's new paradigm; where once they wrote cool fluff that made you want things, then made those things, now they figure out ways to sell the most of any given new box, then arbitrarily change the fluff to include the result. When the new box is for a completely new idea, the intent is disguised, but when it requires them to change existing material it's patently obvious.
Dunno what the problem is. Each clan most likely venerates a different aspect of the GHO. I think it's rather cool that the form of the Vermin Lord matches said aspect.
His Master's Voice wrote: Dunno what the problem is. Each clan most likely venerates a different aspect of the GHO. I think it's rather cool that the form of the Vermin Lord matches said aspect.
Yep
Even though I doubt that it will make 5 variants of the Vermin lord, i would be very happy if it's the case. It would give a lot of variety and a distinct look for each clan, rather than seeing the same sculpt everytime
Again, the Vermin Lord has nothing to do with the clans. Nothing. He is a Daemon. A servant of the Rat God. The only ones who CAN summon him are the Grey Seers, who exist outside of the skaven clan structure.
Although as someone noted, that's going off existing fluff. I suppose it's theoretically possible for various clans to have gotten their claws on the secrets of summoning a Vermin Lord or something else. None of it explains why they would aspect differently.
Do Chaos Warriors summon a different Bloodthirster from a Chaos Marauder cult? Is it a different Bloodthirster than the Chaos Daemons have? No, they're daemons.
streamdragon wrote: Do Chaos Warriors summon a different Bloodthirster from a Chaos Marauder cult? Is it a different Bloodthirster than the Chaos Daemons have? No, they're daemons.
A Bloodthirster already represents an aspect deity of chaos.
Even if we have never seen an Eshin Vermin Lord, it actually makes sense for one to exists if only because Eshin is so different to Moulder who are so different to Skryre, etc.
Edit - why does he stand on his own weapon? I mean, the miniature looks very cool, but that weird pose really bugs me.
His legwarmers look cozy. Gotta keep your calves warm so you can double dutch jump rope with your tails. Gotta do something to keep warmed up for your pole-vault.
It looks awful. The gigantic horns make his head look tiny, his pose is stupid (why is he holding a Necron ressurection orb and standing on his own glaive), his braid beard things look silly, and his legs and feet just look weird.
Those horns are so gorgeous, although it makes me a little sad that my beastmen models have such small horns. I can't wait to see the four other versions of the verminlord now.
Verminlord: Really neat model. I look forward to seeing it in greater detail and also to seeing the other build options. It would be nice to see a better shot of the detail on the face of the model--right now it's looking very beastman-like...
Rumours: I'm really curious to see if the new rat ogre kit is a dual build with new rat ogres. The existing plastics are atrociously bad.
As ever with GW sculpts these days, it's very nearly amazing except for the dumb pose that ruins the overall look. Why oh why is it standing on it own glaive
Sim-Life wrote: Is everyone else looking at a different model?
It looks awful. The gigantic horns make his head look tiny, his pose is stupid (why is he holding a Necron ressurection orb and standing on his own glaive), his braid beard things look silly, and his legs and feet just look weird.
You might better ask why Necrons are holding warpstone orbs. Skaven models holding spheres of warpstone for magic use have been a thing since before Necrons were even a concept.
Hmm.. I love skaven as an army (and they're the only WFB army I kept).. but that model? err pass. If you want a big vermin lord you can buy the FW one which actually looks like a demonic rat instead of.. whatever the hell that thing is.
That sure isn't in the theme of how skaven units look..
ImAGeek wrote: I'm assuming there'll be other horn/head options in the kit.
The blurb under the pic says there are 5 variations of Vermin Lord to build..
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kirasu wrote: Hmm.. I love skaven as an army (and they're the only WFB army I kept).. but that model? err pass. If you want a big vermin lord you can buy the FW one which actually looks like a demonic rat instead of.. whatever the hell that thing is.
That sure isn't in the theme of how skaven units look..
At the end of the day, daemons are daemons. Which means they will choose whatever form they see fit. As will any Skaven hobbyists out there if they buy one or the other.
I dig it, can't wait to see the other versions, and what else the Skaven get. Not really a fan of Skaven, but I'm genuinely excited to see what else GW has in store for them!
I would like to see all the rest of the new stuff. Wherever these rat ogres are they'd be nice to see too as well as the vermin lord variants. Also wtf is going on with thanquol?
Everything said i hope they make a vermin lord more worth taking. Currently as it stands vermin lords aren't that special as far as rules go.
As epic as this new incarnation of the Horned Rat looks, I can't help but feel a massive pang of jealousy as I look over at how god-awful & super tiny those so-called "Greater" Daemons look now...
Tis a sad day indeed when we can probably fit a GUO underneath this new Vermin Lord's foot for him to strike a pose on.
Vermin lord looks sooooo awesome. Much better than the old one, in my opinion. It actually looks threatening, rather than just a super-mutated rat ogre
They're all Vermin Lords. To say othewise is splitting hairs to a ridiculous degree. They're all based on the same model, and the front of the White dwarf says 'new verminlords'.
ImAGeek wrote: They're all Vermin Lords. To say othewise is splitting hairs to a ridiculous degree. They're all based on the same model, and the front of the White dwarf says 'new verminlords'.
Not quite. When you've got monsters specified as verminlords, you assume that they're verminlords. We've got a monster which is just called a warpseer. Based on the evidence as posted in the WD, it's safe to assume that the new warpseer, as such, is a new monster.
Which, furthermore, based on the previous ET books, is likely.
Is that thanquol riding boneripper in the second picture? The far right of the very blurry pic, there seems to be something with a big claw and what looks like a model purched on top. Could be totally wrong but still very excited for this!!
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: I feel like this model seems a bit too much… healthy and clean for a Skaven, no? Would you not expect something that look more twisted and tortured?
Well, it's not actually a Skaven, more a giant daemon. So I guess that might be why it's a bit cleaner? More a model image if a Skaven.
prpetros wrote: Is that thanquol riding boneripper in the second picture? The far right of the very blurry pic, there seems to be something with a big claw and what looks like a model purched on top. Could be totally wrong but still very excited for this!!
Sim-Life wrote: Is everyone else looking at a different model?
It looks awful. The gigantic horns make his head look tiny, his pose is stupid (why is he holding a Necron ressurection orb and standing on his own glaive), his braid beard things look silly, and his legs and feet just look weird.
+1 to this, whatever people are seeing in these new big kits I just don't like them. They seem to be big and showy and full of 'wow factor' with no actual substance.
Sim-Life wrote: Is everyone else looking at a different model?
It looks awful. The gigantic horns make his head look tiny, his pose is stupid (why is he holding a Necron ressurection orb and standing on his own glaive), his braid beard things look silly, and his legs and feet just look weird.
+1 to this, whatever people are seeing in these new big kits I just don't like them. They seem to be big and showy and full of 'wow factor' with no actual substance.
I don't really get comments like this. What exactly is 'substance' in a model? They're big monsters and stuff, wow factor is kind of what they're all about.
No offence, it's fair enough if you don't like it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: 5 different Vermin Lords for the different Clans? That's actually pretty awesome, and it looks HUGE. I like the head on the one we've seen.
Experiment 626 wrote: As epic as this new incarnation of the Horned Rat looks, I can't help but feel a massive pang of jealousy as I look over at how god-awful & super tiny those so-called "Greater" Daemons look now...
Tis a sad day indeed when we can probably fit a GUO underneath this new Vermin Lord's foot for him to strike a pose on.
To be fair for the longest time the vermin lord has been with a crappy model and with a crappy stat-line and such. The fact that it may be impressive, there may be more than one type and this one may hopefully actually take some magic items is a nice boost. I mean think about how daemon princes are. A vermin lord is basically a daemon prince without armor.
Jehan-reznor wrote: I like it, getting a eastern Son Goku vibe from it (the monkey king not Dragon ball).
Oddly enough so am i though i'm more betting for a good 'Wish-granting Dragon' from Dragon ball or Dragon ball z for Lizardmen. I've also been dying to see somebody get a Slann and give it a super saiyan hairstyle with all the spiked up blonde hair. That'd be so boss.
H.B.M.C. wrote: 5 different Vermin Lords for the different Clans? That's actually pretty awesome, and it looks HUGE. I like the head on the one we've seen.
Must be so cool to not be an CSM player.
They said 5 different kinds though they didn't say the special clans. Honestly i could see it happening (plague, magical technology, monstrous beasts and a ninja vermin lord as well as an undivided vermin lord for all or perhaps the great horned rat himself). It could just be what aspect they're going for (ruin magic, plague magic, combat or something). It's hard to say. It's possible but you never know.
Honestly i kind of wished the skaven had other types of clans. They talk about the 4 greater clans and then the warlord clans. In my eyes it is totally possible to have a major clan themed around each part of the world. So yes pirate rats could be a thing as well as more savage skaven and even middle eastern skaven. Skaven are often an offshoot of the human culture they've been around as they steal and live off the waste of humans. They're a dark parody of humans for more than one thing i figure and this includes our culture and our warfare.
Gotta say the profile for the 'verminlord deceiver' is awesome. A verminlord with shooting attacks? It can also skitterleap itself. Strength 6 shooting and hits as many models as the front rank of a unit and they're all poisoned. Very nice indeed.
I'm hoping this vermin lord would be a nice counter to those elf magical fast cavalry that've been plaguing my skaven for some time now.
Edit:
Ok so i take it back. Each greater clan seems to be represented with the new vermin lords.
I dont see what people dont like about it. Im sure theres a variant for everyone but you gotta admit its better than the current one...
Automatically Appended Next Post: You know how easily you can fix the pose? cut the glaive out and extend it , then stick a big ass rock or some dead everything under his foot. Don't like the beard? Clip it off. Half competent modelers can change it to suit their taste easily.
chiefbigredman wrote: Sucks that he has to take skitterleap tho why can't he take the thirteenth? Maybe no more of that spell next edition?
If you read the text above the Deceiver's profile box, there's some text that says:
"...of them can re-roll failed casting attempts for one particular spell. Skreech Verminking, for instance, always knows and re-rolls failed attempts for the Dreaded Thirteenth spell. This means you can structure your battle plans around casting this spell with confidence."
So, not only do you still get Dreaded Thirteenth, but it looks like each of the Clan Verminlords get their own spell. I imagine, now that I think of it, that Verminlord Deceivers are Clan Eshin Verminlords.
I was a little mixed with the look of the vermin lord but honestly as you guys said it's just one of the designs of 5. Also there's a lot worse looking models you can pick apart. Just go to 40k to see what i mean. This model is actually pretty good. The only real issue i have is the braids of all things but i can see it working. As was said before you get kind of a wish-granting dragon vibe from dragon ball z from it (shenron). Probably not the feel i'd go for with a vermin lord or some evil verminous rat but it's not bad.
@chiefbigredman: You are aware in that one vermin lord's rules he can actually skitterleap himself right? I mean his ranged weapon is pretty short but imagine he just skitterleaps behind an enemy unit and just throws a volley of strength 6 poisoned shots into them. Sure it's only as many guys are in the front rank for number of attacks but it's not too bad really.
My biggest question of all this is which one to make. As far as looks and rules go i'm curious about how each will play out. I'd hate to see this end up like the un-taken mortarchs like arkhan the black and the vampire queen neferata chick.
Finally there's the issue of cost. What price are we figuring here? Is it in the 80 USD range or is it going to be more like 120 USD? I'm also figuring if i get the Skaven: End times book it'll need to be soft cover if only because it costs too much and hard cover sells out way too fast. You know how hard cover army books cost 42-50 USD? I find it odd the end times books cost so much extra.
So really i'm getting the skaven: end times for skaven and the lore and maybe some cool new units. Something tells me it'll be horribly imbalanced with the new leaders whenever they hit the table. I mean nagash and other big bads are just ridiculous on the power scale. Then there's the issue of glottkin and Karl franz the ascendant. I just hope the dwarfs don't pull something out of their butts and manage to banish the horned rat or something. That'd p*ss me off so bad.
Well, on the plus side, it seems like the Forgeworld model is still available, and is "only" £45, so for the moment at least there's still a Verminlord model that looks decent and it's £20 cheaper than this monstrosity(and not in a good way) will be.
No doubt the mould will mysteriously wear out around the time of the plastic kit's release though.
The model looks full of character, as for substance on big kits... Glottkin has buckets of substance in every single mm?... Nagash is pretty impressive and dynamic kit , floating huge miniature that I have not seen something so ambitious done so well for a long time.
Yes many could fault several of the normal dualkits monsters for every army being a bit soulless but EOT? Not in my opinion, these have been some of the most exiting minis in WFB and GW nailed this one!
Breotan wrote: Slaves are tortured. This thing rules the Skaven.
Yeah, but iirc, even the most powerful skavens tend to not care overly for hygiene, and are likely to torture themselves into monstrosity using warpstone if that makes them more powerful.
Mymearan wrote: Indeed a monstrosity, Yodhrin... A monstrosity in the best possible way. God I need this model.
Pretty much this. I have no excuse for owning it, but he's just so cool. Look at those horns, he instantly reminded me of Diablo, he just looks so damn cool.
Okay. The rules for the Deceiver have been leaked. It's pretty terrible. No armour, and the only differences between it and a normal Verminlord's profile is +1T and W.
Here's the pic:
And as per usual, the best place to collate rumours is the twitterverse.
thedarkavenger wrote: Okay. The rules for the Deceiver have been leaked. It's pretty terrible. No armour, and the only differences between it and a normal Verminlord's profile is +1T and W.
Here's the pic:
And as per usual, the best place to collate rumours is the twitterverse.
I really don't get the complaints. It has better toughness another wound and this particular one can skitterleap itself even. That's something monsters were not allowed to do before. Also considering his special ranged attack is his strength (so 6 usually) and it's poisoned and armor piercing. Sure it won't knock down a monster sadly but each shot is as powerful as a jezzail shot with better BS and with a quick to fire weapon should you ever get charged or need to fire on the move. This attack is also poisoned to help even more. You also attack as many times as there are front ranking models. I don't know if you realized this but this guy can decimate cavalry units.
We're also talking one of 5 vermin lords. So yeah maybe it isn't an OP unit but it can totally tear through an enemy unit with just its shooting. Magic is just icing on the cake and puts you in an even better position.
thedarkavenger wrote: Okay. The rules for the Deceiver have been leaked. It's pretty terrible. No armour, and the only differences between it and a normal Verminlord's profile is +1T and W.
Here's the pic:
And as per usual, the best place to collate rumours is the twitterverse.
If you looked a few posts back someone posted the link to this picture already.
Anyways same amount of points and has like you said +1 W and +1 T. Has that shooting attack too.
This is just one of the 5 vermin lord variations. So this might not be the best variation. I assume there will be a more powerful one that can rival some of the larger nasties the other armies got.
I agree no armour is kinda bush tho. Wish it had a 4+ ward instead of a 5 but we will see the other rules soon enough.
thedarkavenger wrote: Okay. The rules for the Deceiver have been leaked. It's pretty terrible. No armour, and the only differences between it and a normal Verminlord's profile is +1T and W.
You literally never have a good opinion about anything do you?
I... think I'll pass on the new Verminlord, thank you.
In fact, it spurred me into buying the old one, because god knows the moulds for that (or at least it's place on GW shelves) are likely not long for this world.
thedarkavenger wrote: Okay. The rules for the Deceiver have been leaked. It's pretty terrible. No armour, and the only differences between it and a normal Verminlord's profile is +1T and W.
You literally never have a good opinion about anything do you?
Debating him is pointless, as once he forms an opinion he will not let go of it, no matter how much evidence you throw at him.
Seeing this make me believe it's going to be a fact that at the.... End... We're getting greater daemons, I honestly now believe that they are holding them back.
Without prior knowledge I wouldn't necessarily have guessed that was a Vermin Lord. Someone needs to have a word with the design department and tell them that less can actually be more. See the far superior FW version for evidence.
Have felt the same way about most of the big End Times gribblies.
Perhaps the new kit might look better once we get more pictures of it, different angles and paintjobs, as well as seeing these other options might make all the difference.
Sim-Life wrote: Is everyone else looking at a different model?
It looks awful. The gigantic horns make his head look tiny, his pose is stupid (why is he holding a Necron ressurection orb and standing on his own glaive), his braid beard things look silly, and his legs and feet just look weird.
+1 to this, whatever people are seeing in these new big kits I just don't like them. They seem to be big and showy and full of 'wow factor' with no actual substance.
I don't really get comments like this. What exactly is 'substance' in a model? They're big monsters and stuff, wow factor is kind of what they're all about.
No offence, it's fair enough if you don't like it.
Its a case of style over substance.
Look at the picture of the Verminlord in the Skaven armybook. Its sinister, intimidating and looks powerful without being overly overt about it. Like the elementsnof Skavendom it is supposed to embody
The new model looks flamboyant, overt and rediculous.
I think I prefer the Forge World version's anatomy (rat-human hybrid as opposed to humanoid rat), but this will clearly look a lot better with an appropriate paint job.
Surely the Warp Seer ought to be white furred, red eyed, and all that. Presumably he's a Grey Seer Demon Prince. Whether Vermin Lords are Daemon Princes or Greater Daemons is kind of fuzzy.
I mean I also though Nagash's model was painted inappropriately. I mean why is "The Black Armour" Morikhane blue? etc. It kind of turned me off that they tried to make what I could still tell was a great model look like Skeletor.
Col. Tartleton wrote: Whether Vermin Lords are Daemon Princes or Greater Daemons is kind of fuzzy.
How is it fuzzy? They've always been referred to as Greater Daemons of the Horned Rat as far back as 4th/5th(when they were the best GD you could field).
ProfessionalAmateur wrote: Perhaps the new kit might look better once we get more pictures of it, different angles and paintjobs, as well as seeing these other options might make all the difference.
So much this!
I mean, we've known for a long while now that the 'Eavy Metal team tend to always pick just about the most god-awful colour schemes possible for every new big kit. I'm pretty sure that once we see some actual paint jobs from around the community, the kit will look about 1000% better than the crappy GW photos & paint job.
streamdragon wrote: I would think the Deceiver being able to Skitterleap anywhere on the board would be a big enough deal, let alone the extra wound and toughness.
Yeah seriously. Remember how when the blight kings came out and everybody complained they sucked. They seem to do fine for one of my opponents. That said these days everything's about super fast magical elf cavalry that avoids you all day. It's almost killed warhammer for me (mostly because the same 3-4 factions are being played and that's what killed 40k for me). Remember when your guys could actually get into a combat and actually fight? Not anymore thanks to elf fast cavalry nonsense.
24th new unit, armoured rat ogres called stormfiends plus clam pack warlord and grey seer and re release of old I think in metal oddly warlock engineers"
Automatically Appended Next Post: Those are the rumoured release dates in January by the way^^
Interested in seeing the new rat ogre armoured models. Maybe I can use the rat ogres I have then! Plus new models are always fun lol
24th new unit, armoured rat ogres called stormfiends plus clam pack warlord and grey seer and re release of old I think in metal oddly warlock engineers"
Automatically Appended Next Post: Those are the rumoured release dates in January by the way^^
Interested in seeing the new rat ogre armoured models. Maybe I can use the rat ogres I have then! Plus new models are always fun lol
thedarkavenger wrote: Okay. The rules for the Deceiver have been leaked. It's pretty terrible. No armour, and the only differences between it and a normal Verminlord's profile is +1T and W.
You literally never have a good opinion about anything do you?
Debating him is pointless, as once he forms an opinion he will not let go of it, no matter how much evidence you throw at him.
The fact that this is the skaven super character and it's just about adequate means that it's meh. I'm waiting to see the rest before I make my verdict on them. We'll see. If they all use this sort of profile, then Skaven still won't really be able to take part in End Times stuff.
flamingkillamajig wrote:[Yeah seriously. Remember how when the blight kings came out and everybody complained they sucked. They seem to do fine for one of my opponents. That said these days everything's about super fast magical elf cavalry that avoids you all day. It's almost killed warhammer for me (mostly because the same 3-4 factions are being played and that's what killed 40k for me). Remember when your guys could actually get into a combat and actually fight? Not anymore thanks to elf fast cavalry nonsense.
The Deceiver Lord sounds like he'd murder MSU cavalry. S6 (-3 Armor) + Poison, with a shot for each model in the front rank? Can skitterleap in the magic phase so he makes sure he can shoot? And he can still cast other spells mind you, he is a level 4 wizard. I mean, he's still 500 points which even for his boosted abilities feels high. But still, one of the biggest issues of Plague magic is the short range. Skitterleap a decently tough monster that can cast plague? Heck yeah.
chiefbigredman wrote:"17th Thanquol end times book and mini
24th new unit, armoured rat ogres called stormfiends plus clam pack warlord and grey seer and re release of old I think in metal oddly warlock engineers"
New Rat Ogres, useful Rat Ogres, would make me the happiest skaven player. Would love a few bits designed to make a Bonebreaker as well.
thedarkavenger wrote: Okay. The rules for the Deceiver have been leaked. It's pretty terrible. No armour, and the only differences between it and a normal Verminlord's profile is +1T and W.
You literally never have a good opinion about anything do you?
Debating him is pointless, as once he forms an opinion he will not let go of it, no matter how much evidence you throw at him.
The fact that this is the skaven super character and it's just about adequate means that it's meh. I'm waiting to see the rest before I make my verdict on them. We'll see. If they all use this sort of profile, then Skaven still won't really be able to take part in End Times stuff.
The Vermin Lord is not the Skaven super character. That would be Thanquol.
flamingkillamajig wrote:[Yeah seriously. Remember how when the blight kings came out and everybody complained they sucked. They seem to do fine for one of my opponents. That said these days everything's about super fast magical elf cavalry that avoids you all day. It's almost killed warhammer for me (mostly because the same 3-4 factions are being played and that's what killed 40k for me). Remember when your guys could actually get into a combat and actually fight? Not anymore thanks to elf fast cavalry nonsense.
The Deceiver Lord sounds like he'd murder MSU cavalry. S6 (-3 Armor) + Poison, with a shot for each model in the front rank? Can skitterleap in the magic phase so he makes sure he can shoot? And he can still cast other spells mind you, he is a level 4 wizard. I mean, he's still 500 points which even for his boosted abilities feels high. But still, one of the biggest issues of Plague magic is the short range. Skitterleap a decently tough monster that can cast plague? Heck yeah.
chiefbigredman wrote:"17th Thanquol end times book and mini
24th new unit, armoured rat ogres called stormfiends plus clam pack warlord and grey seer and re release of old I think in metal oddly warlock engineers"
New Rat Ogres, useful Rat Ogres, would make me the happiest skaven player. Would love a few bits designed to make a Bonebreaker as well.
Yes on all points. I think i made the same connection vs MSU cavalry. That said i'm a little worried about one special feature and that is it's dependent on the enemy's front ranks. This means if somebody wants to do the single line formation it'd totally ruin that ability (too bad it can't count flanks as ranks if in the flank when doing this attack which is stupid i think). Still plague magic on the vermin lord with the ability to do other stuff would be nice. He also has the -1 to hit for BS shooting and the improved vermin lord stat line. The boosted toughness and wounds should help.
This vermin lord would probably still do ok vs heavy cavalry and fast cavalry but magical elf cavalry are still probably good as long as they keep their ranks small. I don't have elves but if i'm fairly certain you can cast magic off of one rather than all of them. That means the cavalry could be in small ranks and still hide their vulnerable characters. With fast cavalry they'd be giving up their shooting if they even had any. That said keeping these units in small ranks makes them a little more at a disadvantage should close combat be joined.
My bigger upside to this is this could totally wreck a gunline that only forms in 2 ranks. Imagine 10-20 shots on a unit of handgunners and considering the toughness, ward saves, negative modifier for BS shooters and other stuff he should cut them down pretty fast.
---------
We still have yet to see the other vermin lords but i'm either taking this one or a magic oriented one possibly. Until there's enough shooting this magical elf fast cavalry thing is never gonna die out and i'm more worried about handling that than anything else right now. Sadly these days the answer is either going forward in a large line and containing the elves (hard to do if they ambush too) or using jezzails (which could possibly be shot off the board but could do very well).
---------
@Marshal Loss: I actually thought it was going to be The Horned Rat but thanquol would be some underling with a possible new kit.
thedarkavenger wrote: Okay. The rules for the Deceiver have been leaked. It's pretty terrible. No armour, and the only differences between it and a normal Verminlord's profile is +1T and W.
You literally never have a good opinion about anything do you?
Debating him is pointless, as once he forms an opinion he will not let go of it, no matter how much evidence you throw at him.
The fact that this is the skaven super character and it's just about adequate means that it's meh. I'm waiting to see the rest before I make my verdict on them. We'll see. If they all use this sort of profile, then Skaven still won't really be able to take part in End Times stuff.
The Vermin Lord is not the Skaven super character. That would be Thanquol.
The Warpseer is the one that's fighting Nagash in the pictures.
Not sure why actual Skaven players are even considering this verminlord as useful. It still has a 5+ ward save which means it'll die by turn 2 probably against any army with shooting.
What is the point of a level 4 monster wizard that just skitterleaps around the board? Monsters like close combat.. Use a grey seer for skitterleap shenanigans (or don't because thats not a good strategy since its totally predictable)
5+ ward save = back on the shelf for Mr Verminlord.
Kirasu wrote: Not sure why actual Skaven players are even considering this verminlord as useful. It still has a 5+ ward save which means it'll die by turn 2 probably against any army with shooting.
What is the point of a level 4 monster wizard that just skitterleaps around the board? Monsters like close combat.. Use a grey seer for skitterleap shenanigans (or don't because thats not a good strategy since its totally predictable)
5+ ward save = back on the shelf for Mr Verminlord.
Not all monsters like Combat. Look at the new Delf Hydra. 180 point breath weapons.
That's a bit different than a 500 pt model, you're paying a premium for the combat stats of the verminlord and thus skitterleaping around the board is wasteful.
thedarkavenger wrote: Okay. The rules for the Deceiver have been leaked. It's pretty terrible. No armour, and the only differences between it and a normal Verminlord's profile is +1T and W.
You literally never have a good opinion about anything do you?
Debating him is pointless, as once he forms an opinion he will not let go of it, no matter how much evidence you throw at him.
The fact that this is the skaven super character and it's just about adequate means that it's meh. I'm waiting to see the rest before I make my verdict on them. We'll see. If they all use this sort of profile, then Skaven still won't really be able to take part in End Times stuff.
The Vermin Lord is not the Skaven super character. That would be Thanquol.
The Warpseer is the one that's fighting Nagash in the pictures.
Yes because this is the WD with the Vermin Lords in, not Thanquol... The Thanquol model is the week after (according to rumours).
thedarkavenger wrote: Okay. The rules for the Deceiver have been leaked. It's pretty terrible. No armour, and the only differences between it and a normal Verminlord's profile is +1T and W.
You literally never have a good opinion about anything do you?
Debating him is pointless, as once he forms an opinion he will not let go of it, no matter how much evidence you throw at him.
The fact that this is the skaven super character and it's just about adequate means that it's meh. I'm waiting to see the rest before I make my verdict on them. We'll see. If they all use this sort of profile, then Skaven still won't really be able to take part in End Times stuff.
The Vermin Lord is not the Skaven super character. That would be Thanquol.
The Warpseer is the one that's fighting Nagash in the pictures.
Yes because this is the WD with the Vermin Lords in, not Thanquol... The Thanquol model is the week after (according to rumours).
It's more likely to be Skreech Verminking. The caster who always knows, and can reroll casting attempt for Dreaded Thirteenth.
ImAGeek wrote: Skreetch Verminking is one of the models you can make in the Verminlord kit.
Exactly.
As cool as Super Thanquol would be, it's highly unlikely that he'll be Skaven's answer to stuff like Nagash. He is just a warpstone addicted Grey Seer, after all. And not even a particularly powerful one. Just (un)lucky
ImAGeek wrote: But he has his Rat Ogre (who's going to be huge from the rumours) so really he's like Glotkin; just a sorcerer on a giant monster.
Aren't all the rumours that it's 'End Times: Thanquol'? I'm almost certain well get a super Thanquol.
You know what, if they make Thanquol into some kind of all-powerful uber-Skaven rather than the vicious, bumbling, incompetent, underling-blaming dope we all know and love, that might end up being the thing I dislike most about the End Times. More than abolishing half the WHW "off-screen", more than eradicating my favourite cities in the Empire, even more than Super-Saiyan Karl Franz.
ImAGeek wrote: But he has his Rat Ogre (who's going to be huge from the rumours) so really he's like Glotkin; just a sorcerer on a giant monster.
Aren't all the rumours that it's 'End Times: Thanquol'? I'm almost certain well get a super Thanquol.
You know what, if they make Thanquol into some kind of all-powerful uber-Skaven rather than the vicious, bumbling, incompetent, underling-blaming dope we all know and love, that might end up being the thing I dislike most about the End Times. More than abolishing half the WHW "off-screen", more than eradicating my favourite cities in the Empire, even more than Super-Saiyan Karl Franz.
Well, it is Skaven. I'm sure he'll still be a bumbling, incompetent, underling blaming dope.
ImAGeek wrote: But he has his Rat Ogre (who's going to be huge from the rumours) so really he's like Glotkin; just a sorcerer on a giant monster.
Aren't all the rumours that it's 'End Times: Thanquol'? I'm almost certain well get a super Thanquol.
You know what, if they make Thanquol into some kind of all-powerful uber-Skaven rather than the vicious, bumbling, incompetent, underling-blaming dope we all know and love, that might end up being the thing I dislike most about the End Times. More than abolishing half the WHW "off-screen", more than eradicating my favourite cities in the Empire, even more than Super-Saiyan Karl Franz.
Except we've only gotten that interpretation from the novels. The studio has always portrayed Thanquoul as a threat(albeit one as distracted, fickle, and "bumbling" as any other Skaven) and blessed by the Horned Rat for a greater destiny.
Also, just because he's bumbling and incompetent doesn't mean he's not the most powerful Skaven alive, either. He's actually shown to be pretty effective and powerful in the novels when he's not held back by his own natural cowardice.
The skitterleap one can also often be in combat with whatever it wants turn 2, while fairly easily putting itself where cannons cannot shoot it with a skitterleap (if there's any space, you can put it between cannons and enemy units, and cannons cannot shoot if the template could hit a friendly unit).
thedarkavenger wrote: Okay. The rules for the Deceiver have been leaked. It's pretty terrible. No armour, and the only differences between it and a normal Verminlord's profile is +1T and W.
You literally never have a good opinion about anything do you?
Debating him is pointless, as once he forms an opinion he will not let go of it, no matter how much evidence you throw at him.
The fact that this is the skaven super character and it's just about adequate means that it's meh. I'm waiting to see the rest before I make my verdict on them. We'll see. If they all use this sort of profile, then Skaven still won't really be able to take part in End Times stuff.
The Vermin Lord is not the Skaven super character. That would be Thanquol.
The Warpseer is the one that's fighting Nagash in the pictures.
Irrelevant. Wait until the titular character of the series is out before making judgements (a handful of words after saying that you will wait to make a verdict...) on the stats of the 'super character'. It won't be this kit.
Bumbling idiot Thanquol may be at present, but if the End Times has showed anything it's that we can expect massive changes.
ImAGeek wrote: But he has his Rat Ogre (who's going to be huge from the rumours) so really he's like Glotkin; just a sorcerer on a giant monster.
Aren't all the rumours that it's 'End Times: Thanquol'? I'm almost certain well get a super Thanquol.
You know what, if they make Thanquol into some kind of all-powerful uber-Skaven rather than the vicious, bumbling, incompetent, underling-blaming dope we all know and love, that might end up being the thing I dislike most about the End Times. More than abolishing half the WHW "off-screen", more than eradicating my favourite cities in the Empire, even more than Super-Saiyan Karl Franz.
Except we've only gotten that interpretation from the novels. The studio has always portrayed Thanquoul as a threat(albeit one as distracted, fickle, and "bumbling" as any other Skaven) and blessed by the Horned Rat for a greater destiny.
You're implying a distinction where none exists. Fluff is fluff(the idea that "studio fluff" is "more canon" than "BL fluff" is an invention of a portion of the fanbase), and the greatest volume of it portrays Thanquol as a largely comedic figure who is convinced he's "blessed by the Horned Rat" but in the end is almost always undone by his own arrogance or incompetence, usually in a hilarious fashion. So far this End Times drek has been played completely straight, to the point it's trying so hard to be "EPIC BRAH! *guitar solo*" it's only funny unintentionally; I have absolutely zero confidence GW will do any differently when it comes to Thanquol's role in it.
Also, just because he's bumbling and incompetent doesn't mean he's not the most powerful Skaven alive, either. He's actually shown to be pretty effective and powerful in the novels when he's not held back by his own natural cowardice.
"Powerful" is not a problem, "most awesomest awesomerat ever to awesome" riding what will no doubt be the most awesome Rat Ogre ever to exist, that would be a problem, and given how the End Times has been presenting characters so far(the ones that haven't been arbitrarily killed off of course), is anyone really expecting that GW are suddenly going to make one of the series' "feature" villains a humorous character?
You're implying a distinction where none exists. Fluff is fluff(the idea that "studio fluff" is "more canon" than "BL fluff" is an invention of a portion of the fanbase)
Actually, I'm not. I'm not saying anything is more "canon" than anything else, I'm saying that for something produced by the studio, the studio interpretation is most likely what the new stuff will be based on, regardless of how we fans see that same thing interpreted by other authors.
To use an example: In the X-wing series, Michael Stackpole writes Wedge Antilles as a mostly serious keen minded military officer whilst Aaron Allston writes him as a less serious, slightly reckless pilot who's a practical joker. Neither interpretation is "more canon" than the other, they're just different interpretations by different authors. You're not going to find an Allston style Wedge written by Stackpole and vice versa because that's not how that author thinks of that character.
thedarkavenger wrote: Okay. The rules for the Deceiver have been leaked. It's pretty terrible. No armour, and the only differences between it and a normal Verminlord's profile is +1T and W.
You literally never have a good opinion about anything do you?
Debating him is pointless, as once he forms an opinion he will not let go of it, no matter how much evidence you throw at him.
The fact that this is the skaven super character and it's just about adequate means that it's meh. I'm waiting to see the rest before I make my verdict on them. We'll see. If they all use this sort of profile, then Skaven still won't really be able to take part in End Times stuff.
The Vermin Lord is not the Skaven super character. That would be Thanquol.
The Warpseer is the one that's fighting Nagash in the pictures.
Irrelevant. Wait until the titular character of the series is out before making judgements (a handful of words after saying that you will wait to make a verdict...) on the stats of the 'super character'. It won't be this kit.
Bumbling idiot Thanquol may be at present, but if the End Times has showed anything it's that we can expect massive changes.
Well, the rumours currently put it as a Karak Eight Peaks book. Which makes sense.
You're implying a distinction where none exists. Fluff is fluff(the idea that "studio fluff" is "more canon" than "BL fluff" is an invention of a portion of the fanbase)
Actually, I'm not. I'm not saying anything is more "canon" than anything else, I'm saying that for something produced by the studio, the studio interpretation is most likely what the new stuff will be based on, regardless of how we fans see that same thing interpreted by other authors.
To use an example: In the X-wing series, Michael Stackpole writes Wedge Antilles as a mostly serious keen minded military officer whilst Aaron Allston writes him as a less serious, slightly reckless pilot who's a practical joker. Neither interpretation is "more canon" than the other, they're just different interpretations by different authors. You're not going to find an Allston style Wedge written by Stackpole and vice versa because that's not how that author thinks of that character.
Fair enough, I assumed you were drawing the distinction to imply the fluff written by the design studio was somehow more definitive, as that's usually the only reason people do so.
I'm not familiar with the EU novels, did one of those authors write a demonstrably far larger amount of material about Wedge? Because that's my sticking point; BL made Thanquol what he is, and while normally GW's slapdash "pick what version you like" attitude to the fluff is fine, the End Times removes that liberty by its very nature; it is being written as the "official" version of events - cities burn, you can't pretend otherwise, countries vanish, you can't pretend otherwise, characters die or take a certain path...you get where I'm going. Having multiple versions of a character can work providing you can choose to ignore the ones you don't like, but "End Times Thanquol" will be the Thanquol because the structure of the series brooks no argument; it's the issue I have with the whole thing in microcosm, the only way to continue ignoring the bits of the fluff you don't like if you don't like the End Times is to ignore the whole Warhammer World going forward, which is difficult if you still want to play in and enjoy the Warhammer World.
Why would Thanquol be the "super Skaven" when Lords of Decay are already in the fluff? It's been a while since I ready any of the books, but I certain remember Thanquol
Being terrified of facing the Council. At the very least you'd think Lord Kritislik would be far more powerful than Thanquol.
That was quite possibly the least revealing of all the teasers they've ever done. All it was was a recap of the previous books with the new Tagline and a tiny symbol of the horned rat, and no mention of what the Skaven are doing whatsoever
So this is up. I haven't exactly been keeping up with things but uh.. did Ulthuan sink?
Yes sir, Valkia basically sieged and destroyed the mainstay dark elf city, and the events of End Times Khaine culminate in Ulthuan sinking below the waves.
The survivors of the three elven nations are now all living in Athel Loren.
If you're saying "WTF", that's an appropriate response, but it plays out pretty cool in the book.
Shame that the poses are a bit samey, not that it wasn't expected but the amount of customization in terms of weapons and headpieces is really, really nice!
I can see myself greenstuffing over those, I also am feeling like the skull head is the best. While my Clan is Eshin themed, all my Gutter Runners have skulls painted over their faces so it wouldn't be too far a stretch to use it (thematically).
Has there been a price point leaked for the Great Rat mix kit? I'm afraid to ask because I want one, and whenever that happens I'm always hugely disappointed by the sticker shock...
catharsix wrote: Has there been a price point leaked for the Great Rat mix kit? I'm afraid to ask because I want one, and whenever that happens I'm always hugely disappointed by the sticker shock...
The base size and variety of options makes me think he'll be $76-$80(Maggoth Lord price range) rather than $100+(Nagash+Glottkin price range).
). Best of all the rules are all totally free 
YEEEEEAAAHHH
