Are you troubled by strange noises in the middle of the night? Do you experience feelings of dread in your basement or attic? Have you or your family ever seen a spook, spectre, or ghost? If the answer is "yes," then don't wait another minute. Pick up the phone and call the professionals . .
Ghostbusters: The Board Game is an episodic adventure game for one to four players, who are charged with busting ghosts and sealing gates to the Spirit World. The game is customizable, cooperative, and highly re-playable. It features unique illustrations and figures based on original artwork and designs by Dan Schoening, the artist of IDW's Ghostbusters comic book series. Each Ghostbuster has a distinct role and unlocks unique abilities by gaining experience. The game offers modes for different levels of players, making it accessible to beginners and challenging to experts. Now is your chance to save the world!
Rules Link: We have included a link to our rules primer. It should be noted that this is a quick rundown of most of the basic rules of the game. The final rulebook will be very polished with lots of graphics and other exclusive art to aid in your Ghostbusters training. Some of the rules below are scenario specific, and not all scenarios will feature these same conditions.
Box Dimensions: 12.125"W x 12.125"H x 4"D
• 47 Custom 32-50mm Plastic Mini Figures
• 10 Double-Sided 5.5" x 5.5" Game Board Tiles
• 6 Dice (5 D6 & 1 D8)
• 43 Tokens (Streams, Slimes, Gates, XP Trackers)
• 1 PKE Meter
• 4 Player Cards (4"H x 6"W)
• 6 Ghost Cards (4"H x 3"W)
• 1 Ghostbusters Operations & Field Manual
ALSO INCLUDES FROM STRETCH GOALS - Free Ecto-1 Upgrade
- Free Zuul miniature + Ghost card
- Free Vinz Clortho miniature + Ghost card
- Free Gozer miniature + Ghost card
- Shandor Building Tiles + Scenario card (free to Mass Hysteria)
- Free Janine Melnitz miniature + Player card + Stream tokens
- Zombie Taxi Drivers (Add-On)
- Free Samhain + Ghost card
- Free Grey Lady + Ghost card
- Free Kylie Griffin & Pagan + Player card + Stream tokens
- Free Boogieman + Ghost card
- Free Ron Alexander + Player card + Stream tokens
- 4 Library Game Tiles + Scenario card (free to Mass Hysteria)
- Tobin's Spirit Guide (container to hold ghost cards) (free to Mass Hysteria)
- Free Melanie Ortiz + Player card + Stream tokens
- Free Ivo Shandor + Ghost card
- Free Walter Peck + Paranormal Contracts Oversight Commission card
- Free Rookie + Play card + Stream tokens
- Free Stay Puft Marshmallow Man upgrade to 100mm\
- 5 Free Class 2 Spawn of Cathulhu + Ghost card
- Free 50mm Cathulhu + Ghost card
- 5 Free Class 1 Fearsome Flushes + Ghost card
PLEDGE LEVELS
Spoiler:
The Mass Hysteria level pledge will get you the deluxe game box featuring Kickstarter-exclusive packaging with foil stamping, exclusive 12" x 12" giclée print, exclusive glow-in-the-dark dice, 4 exclusive double-sided game board tiles, exclusive Sandman boss figure and ghost card, exclusive "Impossible Mode" angry, super-sized Stay Puft Marshmallow Man boss figure and ghost card, and additional episodes, plus all applicable stretch goals.
The Mass Hysteria level pledge will get you the deluxe game box featuring Kickstarter-exclusive packaging with foil stamping, exclusive 12" x 12" giclée print, exclusive glow-in-the-dark dice, 4 exclusive double-sided game board tiles, exclusive Sandman boss figure and ghost card, exclusive "Impossible Mode" angry, super-sized Stay Puft Marshmallow Man boss figure and ghost card, and additional episodes, plus all applicable stretch goals.
Game Play
Up to 4 players take on the roles of the Ghostbusters and attempt to return balance between the Spirit World and ours, busting ghosts and sealing the gates from which they’re invading. Completing an episode requires teamwork, planning, and resourcefulness.
The game features 3 campaigns, each with 4 unique episodes. It’s a fast-paced game: each episode takes approximately 30 intense minutes to play. Every campaign concludes with an epic battle against an iconic boss character.
The game uses dice to resolve a lot of the action, so it’s never the same game twice! The three types of dice represent the proton packs and ghost traps, the unpredictable movements of the ghosts, and the chaotic activity of the gates. During each turn, players move, shoot proton streams, deposit trapped ghosts, use unique character abilities, and drive the Ecto-1 to complete objectives.
Each episode’s map is constructed using double-sided tiles, featuring street and park imagery by the talented Robb Mommaerts. With a starter mode and a challenge mode, Ghostbusters: The Board Game will keep you enthralled for hours!
Boss Battle Scenerio
Ghostbuster Cards and Ghost Cards
Spoiler:
Peter Venkman is a risk-taker who does his best work in close proximity to ghosts.
Ray Stantz excels at removing slime from his fellow Ghostbusters.
Egon Spengler is a wild man with his proton pack, but learns from his mistakes.
Winston Zeddemore aids the team by being the best at depositing trapped ghosts.
Janine’s quick response time is her key attribute at the front desk and as a Ghostbuster! When she spots a newly summoned Ghost, she acts fast, and when she sees a fellow Ghostbuster in a tight situation, she leaps into action!
Kyle thinks things through, to the point where she anticipates what's coming! Her research into the forbidden arts has granted her insight into the dark intentions of her enemies, whose actions seem entirely random to everyone else.
Ron is always trying to prove he has the chops to be a better Ghostbuster, even if that means putting himself in danger. He's no schlub when it comes to tech and the closer he gets to a threat, the more brazen he becomes.
To answer some questions that I guess some would have, at least I would initially as well. The miniatures are board game miniatures and plastic. They are probably similar to quality of the Doom that Came to Atlantic City board game they initially did, which is now been taken over by Renegade Game Studios. They haven't really done miniatures before but I'm familiar with what they have done so it will most likely be typical board game plastic.
At first glance one would think it is Zombiecide reskinned but it isn't. Combat isn't zoned based but instead square based movement. Each ghost is unique with what happens when you hit, miss and a special. Some when missed move a random direction, using a 8 sided dice to decide the direction and if moved to a square with another ghost combine into a bigger ghost. Others slime players or leave slime markers which also either lends to ghosts movement (some move towards nearest slime) or power specials.
With the issues with some licensed Kickstarter games like Terminator, in terms of negotiations with Fox and what is being said as delays from them... I can say that Cryptozoic shouldn't have these issues. Cryptozoics main products are licensed based products so they have worked with these situations daily from their Trading Cards (Sons of Anarchy, Hobbit, Arrow, Walking Dead, etc) to their board and deck building games (DC Deckbuilding, Penny Arcade, Walking Dead, Hobbit). Any licensing agreements, approvals have already been done at this stage of the game given how they play test and develop so there shouldn't be any delays like other games have faced over licensing.
The $250k goal seems high but is probably more realistic in terms of what it would cost to produce and it usually isn't a small run. They are fairly good at marketing and developed pretty good social media following from their Trading Card Game, World of Warcraft players, to the Hex MMO TCG they Kickstartered ($2.2 million) so I'm fairly confident they will be able to reach that goal and more.
For the record I'm not officially affiliated with CZE so the above is assumptions and conjecture on my part. I am however part of their Volunteer group, have worked and ran many events for them so I'm familiar with them and how they operate. When WoW TCG was active (before Blizzard canceled it in favor of Hearthstone), I was doing everything from Judging, Scorekeeping or Tournament Management official events known as Darkmoon Faires. I run the board game tournaments or demo usually at GenCon, previously at PAX East and Prime as well.
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BrookM wrote: $45 extra in shipping on the $80 pledge level though.. pity.
To be fair the cost is listed high because that cost does include VAT. They have unfortunately have not been as good with shipping costs when dealing with outside the US. It has been one of the things I've suggested they work better with. I would guess they haven't brokered any deals with a distribution centers in Europe yet. I expect this could force them to do so lowering it the cost.
You'd think I'd know better now about KS but I am tentatively down for this. GB is one of my all-time favorites and unlike a lot of posters here I really dig the look. For me, GB is bigger than (what I will call with hope) the original cast. I think IDW's rendition captures the core concept of each GB's personality.
Completely understand. Its only 9AM for them in Cali so they are just arriving at work. I've already sent information up through my contacts internally so I'm hoping a favoring response comes back. Given the feedback already from BoW, Facebook and Comments I can't see them ignoring it... at least I wouldn't.
My only experience with CZE is that they rescued The Doom That Came To Atlantic City. Considering CZE managed to get me a game out of that disaster, I have a pretty good opinion of them. But I don't know anything about their other KS, the Hex one.
The only thing this has in common with Zombiecide is that it has square tiles.
I am curious on what the negative is from CZE. They have some good games and bad games. The only ones who I know have a real issue with CZE are World of Warcraft TCG players who felt they were left in the dark when Blizzard announced they were pulling the TCG license from CZE (in favor of Heartstone).
The only thing this has in common with Zombiecide is that it has square tiles.
I am curious on what the negative is from CZE. They have some good games and bad games. The only ones who I know have a real issue with CZE are World of Warcraft TCG players who felt they were left in the dark when Blizzard announced they were pulling the TCG license from CZE (in favor of Heartstone).
Component wise it's looks like a 1 to 1 match. Similar experience tracking on the cards too. Every thing looks like Zombicide changed just enough. The encounter design looks a little closer to Sentinels though.
I find their games to usually rely on copies of better games' mechanics. On the whole they are pretty shallow and don't survive repeated play. Their deck building games are passable, but my group got tired of them due to RNG card pool deciding the winner every time.
Completely understand. Its only 9AM for them in Cali so they are just arriving at work. I've already sent information up through my contacts internally so I'm hoping a favoring response comes back. Given the feedback already from BoW, Facebook and Comments I can't see them ignoring it... at least I wouldn't.
I hope so, if other projects can become "EU friendly", it shouldn't be too hard for these guys to pull it off as well. Shipping is a killer with a lot of these projects.
Manchu wrote: Would you say Zombiecide is pretty shallow and doesn't survive repeated plays?
No, what I mean is that they tend to copy other games in a shallow way.
Take their deck building mechanics. It's as close to Ascension as this game looks to be close to zombicide. In Ascension you have to pick between card buying power and scoring power. In The Cryptozoic games your card buying power is your scoring power. This amplifies small early game advantages, so in general who gets the first really good card wins. Ascension also has better ways to modify the card pool to help get better buys, or to block your opponent from getting better buys. Cryptozoic instead uses more of an attack/defense mechanic like from Dominion. Which is terrible here because getting defense cards is completely random. So guys that are ahead keep powering though, and the guys behind get pushed further back.
They took some good ideas from Ascension and a few from Dominion and mad an OK game. Not to terribly deep or balanced. From what I can see here they look to be taking the same approach just pulling from a few other dungeon crawlers.
CaulynDarr wrote: Component wise it's looks like a 1 to 1 match. Similar experience tracking on the cards too. Every thing looks like Zombicide changed just enough. The encounter design looks a little closer to Sentinels though.
Manchu wrote: Would you say Zombiecide is pretty shallow and doesn't survive repeated plays?
Personally I love Zombiecide, although I prefer Zombiecide 3 out of all of them. It is a simple yet fun game that has a lot of repeated plays. I'm a big fan of cooperative games, mainly because it is easier to play with the family and not have someone get frustrated because a player understands game mechanics better than another. Zombiecide tiles are fairly large, but provide enough to do with campaigns and other things to change the setup even when using the same tiles. Survivors make noise, zombies move towards noise. Zombiecide uses a simple zone mechanic (large square sections or rooms) for movement spaces so moving across the whole board is fairly quickly... although that can be dangerous. You search rooms to get weapons or ambushed, while trying to achieve your objective as a team. Each zombie kill gets you exp, exp means you unlock new skills but also increases the amount of threat generated through zombie spawns. The movement and game is predictable but with a bit of surprise so no game is the same twice.
Ghostbusters doesn't have equipment cards so no searching, doesn't use a door mechanic, there also isn't a player spawn deck to determine if most ghosts (Zombies) appear like Zomebiecide. It has square tiles, dice, miniatures, uses gate tokens for spawns, and has an exp track but that is about as far as similarities are. The tiles, if I recall are smaller, but do utilize a common square space mechanic for movement similar to dungeon crawlers. It probably has more similarity to dungeon crawler board games than to Zombiecide. Ghosts move based on 8 sided dice roll in different directions. The ghosts are also a bit more unique compared to zombies, as they have different rules other than 'runner/walker and 1-2 health'. The game mechanics are quite a bit different. There are no noise counters, no needing to search room for weapons. Depending on if you hit, miss or trap a ghost, ghosts react a certain way. Some move away randomly, others move towards closest slime and some move towards the players. Other ghosts when on the same tile combine to become a bigger ghost. Galloping Ghouls enter the square as another Galloping Ghoul it becomes Gruesome Twosome, Gruesome Twosomes become Boogaloos. Stream counters are used and are different colors because you can't cross the streams.
CaulynDarr wrote: I find their games to usually rely on copies of better games' mechanics. On the whole they are pretty shallow and don't survive repeated play. Their deck building games are passable, but my group got tired of them due to RNG card pool deciding the winner every time.
That is a fair opinion, although to be devils advocate, game wise there isn't a unique game out there and hasn't been for a very long time. Even Conan uses Zombiecide zone mechanic but relies on a monster track which is what App games use to determine monster attacks. All games tend to fit in certain categories that all have mechanics lent or borrowed from each other. It is just like music, there hasn't been a unique music artist or band in years.
Whether one game mechanics are better than another really depends on target audiences. Ascension and Dominion are great games but also can take awhile with experienced players, they tend to run longer than a typical CZE Deckbuilder. With more experience in Ascension you make better decisions but ultimately you get punished if you decide to money vs attack. CZE did simplify it after the feedback from Penny Arcade. It was making it difficult to introduce to newer audiences, particular fans of the 'license' (Naruto, DC, Street Fighter, Walking Dead) who aren't the typical gamer. They simplified it to one mechanic so gamers didn't have to make the decision of what direction to go. It makes the game more streamline, which means they can run tournaments with it at GenCon because its faster. Although all the Deckbuilding games can be combined to play together DC vs Street Fighter, there is also a cooperative one now, their game play is different between them. Defense cards are more useful to defend against Supervillain attacks, than player attacks honestly. You are definitely playing with the wrong groups if it comes down to who gets the really good card wins, there are way too many combinations that feed off each other that it isn't always the best card that wins.
stop with all the awesome board game kickstarters!
Baaaaah!
that's a really high funding goal?
Wonder if it more "honest"
I know a number of people have said some people/companies will cut the funding goal number to look more attractive and make up the money with add-ons.
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Manchu wrote: Would you say Zombiecide is pretty shallow and doesn't survive repeated plays?
Zombicide is shallow but that's it not a bad thing, at least in this case.
It has some of the best replay value of any board game I've played. I have nearly 6 large book cases of board games and zombicide is in the top 10 of most played.
It's easy to teach (15 min. or less)
Endless number of possible of scenarios only limited by your imagination
most part quality components
downside
game is really dependent on scenarios. Good scenarios = good game. Bad scenario = bad game. lots of scenarios online to find
Game does require you to tailor make the game balanced by constructing a proper deck in game and what not. Otherwise the game becomes an easy gunfest.
If you are looking for a game with large in depth strategy, probably not for you. if you are looking for a game that is fun to play with friends and non-gaming friends and just have a fun time drinking a few beers, I recommend it.
Zombicide reminds me a lot of an arcade beat-em-up.
Can people who live nearby just drive there and pick this up? I don't know where people are seeing the shipping info but the rate I saw above is just beyond stupid.
Kickstarter fatigue has seeped in for sure.. and these guys are looking for a quarter mil? Holy crap!
To be perfectly honest.. if the Stay-Puft isn't properly scaled I dunno how interested I am. The special giant one is 4" tall. At actual scale he's be like 12+"
...wait..
*runs off looking for old stay puft toys or model kits*
I know a number of people have said some people/companies will cut the funding goal number to look more attractive and make up the money with add-ons.
50% funded at this point so they are halfway there on Day 1. It may make a Day 1 funding although I was skeptical at first.
Yeah I won't have a better idea of the whole picture until they start releasing some new information, particular the stretch goal information. That will shed a little light on how more 'honest' costs are in my opinion. That is what most backers and people say, except usually the people running the KS... but the general consensus is set a low goal number to be attractive and make up cost with Add-Ons. It is a marketing strategy of sorts but still one I think is a gamble when companies do that. Then again when companies do that like Mantic and CMoN then they get called out for having 'false stretch goals' to create content for their box game which should have been included. I think no matter what someone is going to have an objection. Although I tend to put faith in a company if they are founded, as I know they can soak up costs if 'projections' were wrong and they didn't hit their real target number. CZE in the past would normally have the capital to do that but since they split part of the company to create Hex LLC, essentially separating Hex and CZE from each other its a different company. I mean it isn't a big or even medium game company, its a small company with a few employee's that produces board games so I tend to lean towards them being more honest with actual costs because they can't afford to soak up costs on a gamble. Miniatures in board games is new for them as well. 3012, Hot Rod Creeps used tokens and the only experience with miniatures was when they bailed out The Doom that Came to Atlantic City KS.
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MLaw wrote: Can people who live nearby just drive there and pick this up? I don't know where people are seeing the shipping info but the rate I saw above is just beyond stupid.
Kickstarter fatigue has seeped in for sure.. and these guys are looking for a quarter mil? Holy crap!
Not sure where shipping is happening from the US. I would think from their office in Irvine and you probably could arrange to pick it up from them. The issue with shipping isn't shipping within the US, it is shipping to Europe. If you back and select your location it shows the shipping which for Europe $45 which includes VAT. What I don't get is that they said that includes VAT, but they are shipping from within EU... it wasn't my understanding that if you ship in the EU then you don't pay VAT.
I've never done a Kickstarter, and it seems like a lot of the ones I did have interest in (Titanforge's Dwarves, Robotech, and even All Quiet on the Martian Front-which I bought into when it was available in my FLGS), have had some big struggles with meeting what they offer, leaving people waiting way past the point where the product is available for general sales.
Still, I do really like the aesthetic and the fact that this is a board game...well, I have 29 more days to think about it.
Yeah, I worked in project management for a while. It's pretty rare for projects as complex as most miniatures kickstarters to actually be on time.. and even moreso for them to be on budget.
The general public isn't used to this and even though I am used to it I still get really upset when a project stalls during production (cough cough burn-in designs skyway cough cough ranger salamander cough cough gear for gamers battle boards) Man I must be getting a cold..
It's really important to remember this if you're new to kickstarter or crowdfunding.
You aren't necessarily guaranteed a refund if the project doesn't make it after they take your money.
If you receive a product you don't like, then you don't really get much recourse (I hate Deadzone seriously and the Underground Laser stuff was a major disappointment).
You aren't paying for an item. You get items (usually) as a reward for pledging to back the company. That creates the illusion that you're paying for something. The truth is, the company states what they're trying to achieve and how much they need for that. You're basically sponsoring a kid in a fun run at a school or buying something from a booster club.. The rewards system however, has been turned into a pre-order store system and thus, people's expectations (including my own) have been warped to reflect this.
I've backed a fair few kickstarters. So far the only 2 that are late to the point of being considered suspicious are Rangers Salamander and The Skyway Project. We've heard almost nothing on both of those except (we're working on it). I know from contract/project management experience that this is production talk for "we don't legitimately have anything to tell you so please leave us alone and forget that you gave us money".
If you don't know.. Defiance Games set the standard for taking people's money and running. Other projects like Sentinel Games seem to be making progress.. but at a horrendous crawl.. to the point that people aren't sure if they really are making headway.
I wrote that up to give people who are new to crowd-funding a little bit of an unbiased and experienced view.
There are rewards for backing. There are dangers. A lot of it is taken on faith. You have to figure out for yourself if that's an arrangement you're comfortable with.
I feel that I should point out that Cryptozoic have an established reputation for mediocre to poor licensed boardgames, and while Ghostbusters may somehow be an exception, backers should bear this in mind
Here's a list of their existing products, for reference. None of them is well-loved among boardgamers, to my knowledge.
https://www.cryptozoic.com/games
Bioptic wrote: I feel that I should point out that Cryptozoic have an established reputation for mediocre to poor licensed boardgames, and while Ghostbusters may somehow be an exception, backers should bear this in mind
Here's a list of their existing products, for reference. None of them is well-loved among boardgamers, to my knowledge.
https://www.cryptozoic.com/games
Huh.. I actually think I've seen a lot of that stuff on clearance at MiniatureMarket..
I pledged in, not sure if ill actually keep the pledge or not but with 29 days left, plenty of time to put in a place holder and take a look later at what all gets added in
First and foremost, thank you to all of you who have backed this project already. We are well over half way to our goal and we haven't even finished the first 24 hours of this campaign! Our fans rock!
That being said, we realize there are a lot of questions and concerns that have been brought up about the campaign, so we have decided to address them in our first update.
EU/International Shipping: We realize that the current EU/International shipping rates combined with possible VAT is a potential deterrent for backers. We are currently investigating a solution. Please be patient as we work to find the best solution possible.
Game Play Mechanics and Video: We hear you want to know how to be a Ghostbuster?! We are actively working on a gameplay video and it will be up in the next few days. In the meantime, check out an explanation of the game's play mechanics from our game design team:
Ghostbusters: The Boardgame is an episodic, turn-based cooperative game. Each character has a unique set of abilities that you unlock by gaining experience points (XP). Players can play a single scenario or play through an entire campaign, where your unlocked XP bonuses really start to ramp up. Utilizing your character’s strengths and working together is the key to saving the world.
In a standard scenario, you need to seal multiple Spirit World gates across the map while trapping formidable ghosts. Some ghosts are tougher to target than others. If you miss, the ghost moves in unpredictable ways that could lead to you or your buddies getting slimed! When you trap a ghost, you carry it with you until it can be deposited into the Ecto-1’s “Dimensionometer.” Failure to return your trapped ghosts to the Spirit World can cause a catastrophic collapse between the walls of our two worlds!
At the start of each round, a custom Ghost die is rolled, which can summon new ghosts through open gates, trigger unique scenario abilities, or rouse the ghosts around you! When two ghosts occupy the same space, they combine into a higher class ghost and now you’ve really got your work cut out for you!
Game Designers
Adam Sblendorio is an omnivorous/gluttonous mediaphile known in some circles as a Creative Director. A passionate and proud geek with over a decade of producing table top games. Adam has been managing Cryptozoic's board games since 2013.
Mataio Wilson has been a long time play tester with Cryptozoic before becoming Associate Game Designer and working on games like Adventure Time Card Wars, the DC Deck Building Games, and other super top secret projects.
Matt Hyra has been with Cryptozoic since its inception and has worked on every board game release since then. His lead designer credits include DC Comics Deck-building Game, Adventure Time Card Wars, Walking Dead: The Best Defense, Bravest Warriors Cooperative Dice Game, and many, many more.
Impossible Mode: Impossible Mode makes the already unpredictable ghosts even more challenging with additional and/or alternate special abilities. Mix these exciting aberrations in with the standard ghosts to increase the difficulty of a scenario. Or play with only Impossible Mode ghosts to push the limits of paranormal activity! These increase replayability and give the game a little extra paranormal activity.
Retailer Incentive/Glow-in-the-dark Slimer: We understand that a lot of our backers would like to have the glow-in-the-dark Slimer figure added to their pledges. Unfortunately, this exclusive will remain just for the Retailer level pledges. The glow-in-dark Slimer is a retailer-exclusive because we at Cryptozoic believe in supporting hobby shops and other small retailers. We want to encourage people to go out and visit their local stores and what better way than giving them something special that only they can offer. So, we have specific exclusives for individual backers and Retailer backers. This allows us to support the core businesses that drive our industry while giving those of you who back our project from the start a wealth of exclusives that will never be available in-stores.
Stretch Goals/High Funding Goal: We are obsessed with putting as much of our time and resources into making the basic game the best it can be. What's the use of having tons and tons of extra figures, if the game itself isn't up to snuff? We've spent over a year designing the game because we want it to be perfect! Still, no need to worry: we have some amazing Stretch Goals planned. As we get closer to our initial funding goal, expect some exciting announcements.
What are the figures made of? Darn good question! The minis are 28mm scale single-piece phthalate-free injection molded PVC figures. All ghosts apart from the base game Stay Puft Marshmallow man will be translucent. And yes! You can paint them if you like!
Alternate box cover for Mass Hysteria packaging: We’re happy to hear so many of you like both the special edition box AND the basic edition box. Fortunately for those of you that back the Mass Hysteria level, you will receive a giclée of the artwork that is on the Base box. Best of both worlds!
We hoped this has answered a good chunk of your questions and concerns.
Their license covers the movies, the toy lines (I guess that means the Real Ghostbusters as well?), and the IDW comics.
The Slimer exclusive thing is really dumb. Someone did not think that through and I bet CZE is stuck digging their heels in now.
The myth that KS is not a(n admittedly terrible) pre-order system needs to be nipped in the bud. There is a contract between the creator and the backer: I will give you ___ on ___ date in consideration of you giving me ___ product/service on approximately ___ date.
Manchu wrote: The Slimer exclusive thing is really dumb. Someone did not think that through and I bet CZE is stuck digging their heels in now.
Tough to say on that one. They talk a lot to retailers and that suggestion I suspect came from the retailers but not sure they really thought it completely through. Since they already require a retailers license, just giving a bulk discount should be more than enough. I understand them wanting to do something special to support retailers but I think it would be better to include 'extra KS exclusives' instead of an exclusive only for retailers. For example give Retailers access to extra Sandman Boss and Stay Puft.
I wouldn't say they are stuck digging their heels in though, during Hex they eventually changed some things based on backer feedback. We still have a long 29 days ahead though so we'll see what they pull out. 71% funded so hopefully in the next day or so we'll see what the stretch goals are. Since they mention the movies and toy lines, I'm hoping to see miniatures from those as well like an alternate 4 pack of Ghostbusters based on the movie versions or something. I'd also like to see some alternate versions and sculpts of things as well.
Seriously, companies are still launching kickstarters without organizing affordable overseas options?
When has "we're looking into affordable options for overseas" not been a poofight?
Maybe the shipping thing and the Slimer thing are both engineered problems. That is, problems that make more sense to fix publicly so that CZE can generate good will for being responsive.
The myth that KS is not a(n admittedly terrible) pre-order system needs to be nipped in the bud. There is a contract between the creator and the backer: I will give you ___ on ___ date in consideration of you giving me ___ product/service on approximately ___ date.
Kickstarter is NOT a store. In a store you have protections as a consumer.
Kickstarter is not a store. People aren't buying things that already exist — they're helping to create new things. Creating things isn't always easy. Some projects will go wonderfully, and others will run into obstacles. Be prepared for a little bit of each.
Creators are responsible for their projects. When you back a project, you're trusting the creator to do a good job, so if you don't know them personally or by reputation, do a little research first. Kickstarter doesn't evaluate a project's claims, resolve disputes, or offer refunds — backers decide what's worth funding and what's not.
Some projects won't go as planned. Even with a creator's best efforts, a project may not work out the way everyone hopes. Kickstarter creators have a remarkable track record, but nothing's guaranteed. Keep this in mind when you back a project.
You are perpetuating the problem. People assuming they have the same protections they do if they were to walk into a hobby shop or order from Amazon are dead wrong. When Defiance decides they aren't going to give you your egg suit, the legal recourse is yours to take and it's a fairly weak case as far as the wording on how kickstarter arranges backers.
The MOST that Kickstarter will do is prevent someone from creating another project. Moreover, they don't even research who is involved in the projects so if someone scammed people on Kickstarter, all they would have to do is start up another one under someone else's name.
Titanforge as an example, had some issues with their metal beard kickstarter. Their current sci-fi guys vs demon kickstarter is on a completely separate account. If they had not fixed the problems from the Metal Beard Campaign then it's unclear whether or not their second account would have suffered any actions.
Please stop misleading people. Yes, businesses are using Kickstarter LIKE a webstore for pre-orders.. but that does not mean it IS a webstore. There is an important distinction and people really do need to understand that.
Manchu wrote: Maybe the shipping thing and the Slimer thing are both engineered problems. That is, problems that make more sense to fix publicly so that CZE can generate good will for being responsive.
Oooh, I like that one!
Fake Stretch Goals have a new favorite companion - Engineered Problems!
Pretty clever, really.
And, as much as Kickstarter may like to say something, well, it doesn't necessarily make it true...
Please re-read my post carefully. Whether the KS website is a store is irrelevant to the legally binding contract between backer and creator, the cultivation of which is marketed by the KS company as pledges and rewards.
@Alpharius
Engineered Problems and Fake Stretch Goals go together like a horse and carriage.
Please re-read my post carefully. Whether the KS website is a store is irrelevant to the legally binding contract between backer and creator, the cultivation of which is marketed by the KS company as pledges and rewards.
@Alpharius
Engineered Problems and Fake Stretch Goals go together like a horse and carriage.
I agree with the sentiment but you are not actually entering into a contract with them for a product. You are backing them to achieve whatever their goal is. The rewards system is a gift. It's kinda like giving a prostitute a necklace instead of cash.. and you're paying for their company.. anything that happens is between consent...uh.. maybe I've said too much..
The point is.. it's misleading. Situations like the Defiance debacle only underline this problem and misconception.
Yes.. it is being used as a way for places to pre-sale. I don't know that others who are new to Kickstarter will make such a nuanced distinction without seeing a conversation like the one we are having though. At the very least it brings the dialog of what it actually is up. As far as I know, the people burned by Defiance do not have any way to recover their losses. Perhaps I am mistaken though.
Manchu wrote: Yes, you are mistaken. We are talking about a contract.
Ha ha. Good luck enforcing it.
A lawyer will cost you more than your pledge, so, at best, your recourse is to take it up with your credit card. But that's the only protection I've seen regularly used. The Washington DA has been cited as consumer protection against KS fraud, but this has been only for one case. With the Hansfree, an insurance lawyer took the creator to small claims court (?). And I can't find other examples -- especially with boardgames. I'd really like to know other cases where backers took action besides cc refunds against KS creators for their money back.
And two pages and no one's mentioned the Wizards lawsuit / litigation against Cryptozoic? With KS, any money pledged to a creator can be used as the creator pleases. Just ask the creator of The Doom that Came to Atlantic City -- the game backers would not have had Cryptozoic stepped in. Some contract!
First, some of us backers are actually lawyers ourselves. Second, no point I made can be overcome by an appeal to court costs. The claim was that a KS pledge is not a pre-order. That is false. A pre-order is just a kind of contract.
First, some of us backers are actually lawyers ourselves. Second, no point I made can be overcome by an appeal to court costs. The claim was that a KS pledge is not a pre-order. That is false. A pre-order is just a kind of contract.
If you're a lawyer, I got some beachfront property in Montana you might be interested in.
If you show me where on any kickstarter there is wording that would constitute a contract for pledge rewards, then I'll even throw in a bridge.
MLaw wrote: If you're a lawyer, I got some beachfront property in Montana you might be interested in. If you show me where on any kickstarter there is wording that would constitute a contract for pledge rewards, then I'll even throw in a bridge.
Don't argue with lawyers.
Kickstarter provides a funding platform for creative projects. When a creator posts a project on Kickstarter, they’re inviting other people to form a contract with them. Anyone who backs a project is accepting the creator’s offer, and forming that contract.
Kickstarter is not a part of this contract — the contract is a direct legal agreement between creators and their backers. Here are the terms that govern that agreement:
What the actual Kickstarter claims it is setting out to achieve and how it phrases the terms of the awarding of pledge levels are what governs how those tie in. It is not a straightforward agreement. In this particular game's instance, this is defined at the bottom.
In the highly unlikely event that we are not able to deliver the game for some unforeseeable, calamitous reason, we will refund all pledges.
In contrast the same risks and challenges section from Defiances' campaign says no such thing.
"We're a very small company and very aware of our limitations. The reason for this Kickstarter is to produce what we believe will be one of our most popular sets in a more controlled environment where we can better anticipate demand and be able to plan for it with lots of cushion time built in.
Now that we've produced several sets in-house we're confident that our process, materials, and team are the right ones to make this set a huge success. In-house manufacturing allows us to control the process and quality precisely and make sure we are meeting the standards you deserve.
The beauty of Kickstarter is that if we don't meet our goal, your pledges are safe and if we do we know that we have budgeted appropriately to make "
Nowhere here https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/defiancegames/28mm-power-armor-hardsuits-defiance-games?ref=nav_search does it actually say you are pledging for miniatures. It only states that you are helping them get ready for their release.
The pledge levels state what you will receive but they don't outline any terms or conditions. They have nebulous information floating around.
If you actually were a lawyer, you'd know that having words that don't specify something but imply it only (and that is due to context) then you don't have a contract. You certainly don't have an enforceable one when the only wording dealing with consequences in relation to a project are that Kickstarter has nothing to do with it.
I'm not a lawyer but I've had to assist in proof-reading contracts on complex multi-million dollar computer based training projects for the military via third party contractors. At best Kickstarter is a loose agreement that you will receive something for your money. There is necessary language and it is simply not present.
See above -- KS TOU provides boilerplate contractual terms that apply to all projects using the platform.
When a creator posts a project on Kickstarter, they’re inviting other people to form a contract with them. Anyone who backs a project is accepting the creator’s offer, and forming that contract.
I don't know how it can be any clearer.
Even absent the explicit TOU, all of the elements of contract are present.
Manchu wrote: Even absent the explicit TOU, all of the elements of contract are present.
Yes, but, who's actually enforcing this?
Have you had to take up or threaten legal action against a KS creator? I definitely want to know how it turned out.
Heck, if you took 15% for litigations against deadbeat creators, there might be a side job for you. I'd sure like ADW and RikTor be made to pay for their scams and mismanagement!
ced1106 wrote: Have you had to take up or threaten legal action against a KS creator? I definitely want to know how it turned out.
I have yet to lose enough money on a project or get angry enough with any creator (pretty close with Mike Nystul) to file a case. Actually, the most I have ever faced losing to a KS project was 100 USD on The Doom That Came To Atlantic City -- and CZE actually came through on that one, seemingly out of nowhere.
In other news, I got an email via KS from CZE asking me where I found the pics of the Cabbie and Grey Lady. The answer, for anyone else wondering, is here:
Is that *really* a practical answer? As far as I've seen, the cost of going to court (time as well as money) outweighs the amount *most* backers pledge.
Are we really going to see an Up Front backer go after RikTor in Australia? How can you bring ADW to court if you don't even know where they are? Explain to me, exactly, how the courts are protecting these backers. Don't give me some handwavy non-specific answer like you've been doing so far. I want you to give me an example of a backer who actually went to court. Then I want you to give me another one. Then another one. All I got is a lawyer in a Hansfree KS. I'm up by you one example, btw.
Speaking of BTW, I have no problems arguing with you -- IF you provide me actual specific REAL examples of backers getting their money back and HOW they did it. Save me a few hundred bucks and you can win all the dang arguments you want!
Also, BTW, please look at and respond in the Dust: Babylon thread. Since you've actually dealt with contracts, I'd like your opinion of it. TIA.
I don't appreciate you dismissing my posts as hand-wavy and non-specific while you are hijacking the point I actually made; which is, again, that a KS pledge is indeed a pre-order inasmuch as a pre-order is just a kind of contract. All these "practical" issues you are so proud to point out are no less true in the case of, hypothetically speaking, any party refusing to perform on its contracts.
I'm not sure why you think I am under any obligation to teach you anything, much less how to rescue your money from a deadbeat KS creator. I'm not here to win an argument, either. The elements of contract are present; the KS TOU explicitly ratify the transaction as a contract. There is nothing to win or lose. You are free to accept reality or not, it's very much all the same to me.
ced1106 wrote: Explain to me, exactly, how the courts are protecting these backers. Don't give me some handwavy non-specific answer like you've been doing so far.
The courts protect backers the same way the courts protect people, it is just a matter of who will actually take someone to court. The issue isn't that there isn't a contract, the issue is that no one (other than a couple cases) have taken them to court because simply put as you already laid out the reason:
the cost of going to court (time as well as money) outweighs the amount *most* backers pledge.
That doesn't mean it isn't possible or change the fact that it is a contract that can be legally binding. It however isn't up to Kickstarter or someone to tell you how to do it, or do it for you but it is up to each individual to do so themselves. When I created websites and freelanced for businesses and they refused to pay their bills, there is nothing protecting me despite having a contract. I'm still the responsible party who has to take them to court. In most cases people tend to complain, then walk away because they don't think its worth it. They could get restitution, in some cases, to pay for the court fees as part of the court case but that is actual work. It isn't Kickstarter's fault that is the way the law works, there are a couple reasons for that but for the most part it is your own responsibility to do so.
Quite right, Dark Severence. KS just makes sure to get its share before disbursing anything to the creator. If there was ever a case that clearly illustrated the difference between a bet and an investment, it's KS. But really, any time you enter into any contract you are making a bet. As consumers, most of us are used to making very safe bets. Maybe part of the excitement of KS is the risk?
Was looking forward to this and then realised it would cost me well over £100 after shipping, import taxes and the Royal Mail double-dipping me. Guess Im waiting until it hits retail.
So now that we've seen that KS Campaigns are actually 'contracts', where's that 'Montana beach front property' along with accompanying 'bridge' we were promised?
Pete Melvin wrote: Was looking forward to this and then realised it would cost me well over £100 after shipping, import taxes and the Royal Mail double-dipping me. Guess Im waiting until it hits retail.
It is roughly £82 for the Paranormal pledge or £111 for Mass Hysteria pledge, that includes VAT. Shipping is still a concern to the EU, it is something that is however being looked into so I'd definitely at least set a 'Remind Me' and check back with it later to see if they resolved it.
CaulynDarr wrote: Just Curious, was the Wotc vs Cryptozoic/Hex lawsuit ever settled? A big legal battle hanging over their heads may be pertinent.
Cryptozoic Entertainment LLC split as a company with the Hex team creating HEX Entertainment LLC. It is my understanding this was not due to the lawsuit but their desire to switch to a full time HEX team and business vs splitting resources to Trading Cards/Board Games and HEX. HEX Entertainment LLC was added to the defendant list in the lawsuit as well.
WoTC vs Cryptozoic Entertainment LLC was filed on 05/14/2014 for pantent infringement. The latest docket entry was 01/13/2015 and is currently still in discussions between the lawyers of the parties. A lot of back and forth. In other words, unless there is a settlement, this is going to take at least a couple more years before it is fully in court and finished.
None of which actually effects the Ghostbusters KS as their funds encompass something else entirely. Currently it is my understanding that almost every CZE projects is self contained in terms of cost. This ensures that if one project tanks, it doesn't effect the company or other future projects as a whole. By the time there is a settlement or goes to court, Ghostbusters KS would have already been completed and delivered as well.
Manchu wrote: First stretch goal is an upgrade! And who could have asked for a better one?
But I want to know what that means, now we have to wait until its unlocked. I'm guessing it is upgrading the token to a plastic miniature. I am both happy and sad. Happy that it'll actually be a miniature but sad because its a board game, so it isn't a miniatures game per say which means it probably isn't scaled to the right size (determined from how its shown used in the initial video). I could be wrong though.
CZE wrote:The game board squares are 1.5" x1.5 inches. The ECTO-1 will not "entirely" fill two game board squares but will be large enough to clearly take up space in two squares.
Manchu wrote: The Ecto-1 miniature is definitely not in 28mm
Which is why I'm sad because it would be pretty cool to have a 28mm one. If it was a different company I could see them doing a plastic one for the game box and a 28mm scale in resin but fairly sure they won't. I'm happy though its an actual miniature which is better than a token.
People are complaining that it's a $50K stretch goal, and that does seem a bit much, but it doesn't trouble me too much considering it is an upgrade rather than an add-on.
Manchu wrote: People are complaining that it's a $50K stretch goal, and that does seem a bit much, but it doesn't trouble me too much considering it is an upgrade rather than an add-on.
When you compare to other KS it definitely does seem a bit high but that depends on who is doing their manufacturing. I doubt they are using the normal board game manufacturers we're familiar with, only because I'm not sure they could deliver based on the timeline. Without seeing more stretch goals it is hard to say the real direction they are going to guess where costs are actually being distributed. Unfortunately they usually won't announce the next Stretch Goal until this one is achieved. It is however an upgrade to the base box so that means all future base games will have them so that is a bonus.
If it was me, I could see them making the first stretch goal higher. Then use that to offset 'current' shipping costs to EU, thus reducing it to a more manageable amount. This creates a fairly quick and responsive answer to EU issues, helps generate more in terms of $$$. In the meantime still continue looking and creating an alternate shipping method (cheapest method would be to simply ship a pallet to Amazon.UK, set a far future sell date (so stock doesn't sell), then upload a excel spreadsheet to them to ship to backers out of that current stock utilizing amazon prime shipping methods). Once one is secured then they can later on use that as a method to add a "free miniatures or upgrades" stretch goal and could continue momentum. Worse case they don't negotiate lower shipping costs but because of the SG are able to soak up VAT charges themselves lowering shipping overall and SGs continue.
It'll take a few stretch goals though to see what the big picture is though.
GarageGaming wrote:I am actually a fan of Zombiecide, although I prefer Zombiecide 3 out of all of them. It is a simple yet fun game that has a lot of repeated plays. My family and I are fans of cooperative games, mainly because it is easier to play with the family and not have someone get frustrated because a player understands game mechanics better than another. Zombiecide tiles are fairly large (10"x10"), but provide enough to do with campaigns and other things to change the setup even when using the same tiles. The gameplay really depends on the campaign setups for them. Survivors make noise, zombies move towards noise. Zombiecide uses a simple zone mechanic (large square sections or rooms) for movement spaces so moving across the whole board is fairly quickly... although that can be dangerous. You search rooms to get weapons or ambushed, while trying to achieve your objective as a team. Each zombie kill gets you exp, exp means you unlock new skills but also increases the amount of threat generated through zombie spawns. The movement and game is predictable but with a bit of surprise so no game is the same twice.
Just looking at the cards, game board and dice it is clear it isn't a Z clone or rehash, at least in my opinion and observations (obviously more will be known once we see game play). Ghostbusters doesn't have equipment cards so no searching for weapons/ambush; There do not appear to be doors/objectives markers so it doesn't use a door mechanic like Z; There also isn't a player spawn deck to determine if most ghosts (Zombies) appear like Zomebiecide, so ghost spawn is handled differently. The similarities to Z are that it has square tiles (smaller 5.5"x5.5"), dice, miniatures, uses gate tokens for spawns(?), and has an exp track for characters but that is about as far as similarities are. The which are smaller do utilize a common square mechanic for movement similar to dungeon crawlers (has more in common than a dungeon crawler than Z). Ghosts appear to move based on 8 sided dice roll in different directions. The ghosts are also a bit more unique compared to zombies, as they have different rules other than 'runner/walker and 1-2 health'. Since each ghost type is different, that introduces new mechanics that aren't utilized in Z. There are no noise counters (unless streams are equivalent and I'm not sure they are) and no needing to search room for weapons. Depending on if you hit, miss or trap a ghost, ghosts react a certain way (outlined in the cards). Some move away randomly, others move towards the closest slime and some move towards the players. Other ghosts when on the same tile combine to become a bigger ghost. Galloping Ghouls enter the square as another Galloping Ghoul it becomes Gruesome Twosome, Gruesome Twosomes become Boogaloos. I am assuming stream counters are different colors for another mechanic because you can't obviously cross the streams(?).
That is observation based on taking 5 minutes to read the cards, look at the game setup and pay attention in the video. Obviously a game play video will help and it is being updated as previous footage was determined not up to par. It is clear it isn't Zombiecide.
Is that you Dark Severance?
And my observations:
Well ... we know that each player has a certain number of actions to "move, shoot proton streams, deposit trapped ghosts, use unique character abilities, and drive the Ecto-1." And we know that ghosts' AI is based on reacting to the players (if hit/miss, then ___) and that lesser ghosts combine into greater ones. We know that ghosts spawn from gate tokens each turn based on a dice roll. We know that ghosts "attack" the players by sliming them, which reduces the number of action they have per turn until the slime is removed. We know that each scenario will have objectives in addition to standard ghost busting and that scenarios are grouped together into campaigns culminating with a boss battle. We still don't know about the PKE meter, but I would guess it has something to do with how many ghosts spawn per turn.
I will say I don't think CZE is ready to deal with the "new" KS compared to the last time it ran a campaign 2 years ago. KS unfortunately in terms of the "Games" category is much different now in what backers know, expect, and want. If it was simply a board game with miniatures as add-ons, it may be different but since it has miniatures it enters into miniature gamer scrutiny which isn't an easy or non-vocal audience.
Manchu wrote: People are complaining that it's a $50K stretch goal, and that does seem a bit much, but it doesn't trouble me too much considering it is an upgrade rather than an add-on.
People on KS will complain about damn near anything it seems. The stretch could have been 5k and someone would have complained that it wasn't enough. The internet is dark and full of terrors, and there's always at least 1 vocal person who will never be satisfied. Also, I've read a lot of people saying how 250k was such a high goal, and now that 50k is, yet the campaign funded in roughly 30 hours of it's start, and us already halfway to the first stretch goal. Having spoken to the people I know at CZE, the reason for the initial amount is to ensure the game had enough demand to be viable to make at all. KS seems to be used fairly often in this manner, as a gauge for demand and if a company should bother with a project at all. It makes sense to me, wanting to minimize monetary risk on a new product. And while CZE isn't a HUGE company, they are at least big enough that had the KS not funded it would have had zero impact on the rest of the company and thus refunds would have been given out.
I also mentioned the shipping issue and what I was told was that modifying shipping after the campaign is live is not an option. My advice was that in the future shipping be included in the actual backing cost, not added on, even if that means increasing the backing cost. I can say that the people at CZE who are working on the campaign, especially those who are keeping up on the comments and replies, are working very hard on it and are working longer hours. They even have a EU rep who monitors off hours and helps out where possible.
One thing I can say is that the models are pretty decently detailed for how big they are, and are very accurate to their comic artwork. They should paint up nicely.
As for the Slimer issue: the thinking behind Slimer was to give retailers a perk for backing the game, as CZE want retailers to have more incentive to carry the product. Most KS's seem to ignore retailers altogether, let alone make perks specifically for them. I mentioned the public's apparent outrage at this to a few of the people at CZE that I know. Couldn't say whether they will change that or not. Perhaps offering free to retailers and as a paid addon for non retailers?
If anyone here has specific questions about the campaign that haven't been answered on the KS page, PM me and I will ask my sources there and post answers here since this is my gaming home.
We still don't know about the PKE meter, but I would guess it has something to do with how many ghosts spawn per turn.
That is a possibility. ^_^
Yeah I'm not sure about the PKE meter either. I believe it is used in combination of determine where a ghost moves since the numbers correlate with rolling a D8. It would be interesting if it also has other uses. Having it contribute to ghost spawns would be interesting, which is the only thing I'm really hazy on. We know they do spawn from the gates but not sure what determines when and if, is it as frequent as every turn or only when certain events happen?
For instance, we hope we have communicated that your characters are driven by the use of "Actions" that you expend in order to affect the game state. Some of these Actions are used to move your character or the Ecto-1, blast proton streams, remove slime from each other, and deposit trapped ghosts.
You may have also garnered information from the character cards that you get additional role-specific "Free Action" as you level up. These are in addition to the one Free Action you get each round that can be used getting in or out of the Ecto-1 and exchanging trapped ghosts with adjacent characters.
Yes, there is a universal "Lose Condition" baked into the game; Ghosts invade through the Gates from the Spirit World, and because ghosts are the insulation for walls between dimensions, if the Spirit World empties out and you trigger a ghost to be summoned, both our worlds collapse. Luckily, Egon and Ray have modified the Ecto-1 with a modified "Dimensionometer" that transfers trapped ghosts back to their world. If you keep our worlds balanced, you may just buy enough time to beat the episode!
That tells us as well that when a ghost is trapped, we use Ecto-1 to transfer the trapped ghost back to their world. It appears that after so many ghosts invade then the walls between the worlds collapse and players lose. The main goal appears to trap ghosts in traps, use Ecto-1 to transfer back and I'm assuming win conditions are based on their "Scenario/Episode" setup.
Most of the game play seems fairly straight forward from there. The dice create randomness for ghost movement. Slime trails also contribute to randomizing ghost movement. Movement is unpredictable and if you get slimed then you get less actions. There are probably a couple other mechanics we're missing.
Manchu wrote: I'd like to know what manufacturer they are working with for their plastics.
I will find out if this is info that can be shared publicly or not. It may have been mentioned to me before, but I can't recall off the top of my head.
Some things of course can't be disclosed for legal or contractual reasons(like contact info for who granted the licenses for the IP, because someone actually threw a fit over not getting that info). But if it's something that can be shared, I'll gladly pass the info along.
I know for me personally the models are the biggest draw as painting is my primary hobby over actually playing games, so I completely understand wanting to know who is physically making the models(and if one should expect massive delays like we get with WGF).
Aerethan wrote: I also mentioned the shipping issue and what I was told was that modifying shipping after the campaign is live is not an option. My advice was that in the future shipping be included in the actual backing cost, not added on, even if that means increasing the backing cost. I can say that the people at CZE who are working on the campaign, especially those who are keeping up on the comments and replies, are working very hard on it and are working longer hours. They even have a EU rep who monitors off hours and helps out where possible.
There are a couple methods to deal with shipping, it just depends on how big they get with the KS and what their planned stretch goals are. The most used method is simply keep things as they are and issue a "credit" to be used in the Pledge Manager. This will allow people to add additional add-ons to their pledge for the difference in shipping. In some cases other KS do something similar except they initially just charged a 'flat rate' for shipping, issue that as a credit to be used on the actual shipping cost. If there is a planned 'expansion' that would be an add-on, that could be thrown in at a reduced amount for EU backers by simply increasing their pledge X dollars and US backers Y dollars. In the end it offsets but the easiest method is the credit through the pledge manager.
Aerethan wrote: As for the Slimer issue: the thinking behind Slimer was to give retailers a perk for backing the game, as CZE want retailers to have more incentive to carry the product. Most KS's seem to ignore retailers altogether, let alone make perks specifically for them. I mentioned the public's apparent outrage at this to a few of the people at CZE that I know. Couldn't say whether they will change that or not. Perhaps offering free to retailers and as a paid addon for non retailers?
I've known CZE has always supported retailers and although that is a great idea in principal in practice it is counter-intuitive to Kickstarter. People back KS to obtain items at a reduced retail price, before retail and usually because of exclusives. The slimer basically tells backers to not back and instead wait until retail to get this cool guy. Retailers already get added bonuses that people don't realize. Giving retailers a better price than the normal 40% price they would pay wholesale is already a good deal. If they want to sweeten for Retailers then allowing them access to some "KS Exclusives" to be sold retail would still maintain their exclusiveness, be done in a limited amount and still provide incentive to someone who missed the KS as opposed to someone who knew but decided not to back because of Slimer. Simply giving them mini-boxed versions for Sand Man and Stay Puft would be fine.
Aerethan wrote: If anyone here has specific questions about the campaign that haven't been answered on the KS page, PM me and I will ask my sources there and post answers here since this is my gaming home.
Pssshhhtt... do I know you? ^_^ PAX Prime, PAX East, GenCon, DMFs, and or NACC... have we met?
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Aerethan wrote: I will find out if this is info that can be shared publicly or not. It may have been mentioned to me before, but I can't recall off the top of my head.
Some things of course can't be disclosed for legal or contractual reasons(like contact info for who granted the licenses for the IP, because someone actually threw a fit over not getting that info). But if it's something that can be shared, I'll gladly pass the info along.
It hasn't been shared before that I have seen. CZE likes to be mysterious which I do understand to a degree. For miniatures gamers though it is a completely different world. Although I can understand the contractual reasons for the IP, there shouldn't be anything regarding who is doing manufacturing. It is almost unheard of to a degree as most miniatures gamers know X Company uses Y Manufacturer, etc.
I am not much of a board gamer. But the board game aspect of this project is the main draw for me. IMO a miniatures-based board game fits the Ghostbusters license perfectly -- cooperative, lighthearted, mechanically "casual", and very heavy on theme. As far as the miniatures go, the most exciting thing for me is that the ghosts are in translucent plastic, which is a great throwback to the toys. That totally rules out painting them.
So looks like they are going $50K route SGs for now, still seems a bit higher than it should be though. I wonder if they'll keep $50K route for SGs or if they'll change it up a little, always felt SGs should be adjusted to reflect what they are adding and they shouldn't always have to be the same amount. I also wonder if they have some other extras to throw in at pre-determined points though.
I would like to ultimately see some additional add-on's though. Right now in order to generate more funding they need additional backers, so instead of having a SG which allows backers to upgrade or add additional $$... I'm still sitting at the same pledge and have finished contributing at this point (for now). The IP could probably generate more but I'd like to think they'd want both additional backers and a reason to increase pledges for existing backers, unless that is going to happen later.
Manchu wrote: Maybe it will change but not while the KS is generating ~$4K-$7K/hr levels of interest.
I wonder when the first "so it will be another $50K just for Vinz Clortho" complaint will air ... I hope CZE has a different model for the Keymaster.
That is true.
Oohhhh they could always make Keymaster an additional add-on with the completion of this SG. I doubt they will but that wouldn't be a bad idea. It gets both of them out there, one is free and the other can be used to generate additional backer $$ while adding a new SG. That would justify the high dollar amount for SG a bit more.
Initially when I saw this KS, I was really up for it, I mean seriously, Ghostbusters, its pure win. But..........
I've backed AVP by Prodos Games and seen first hand licensing issues. It's all very well the creator telling us everything is good (just like Prodos), but no one really knows how Sony will infulence this (just like Fox and Prodos). This has also made me dig deeper.......
CZ's other KS they ran in 2013: HEX MMO Trading Card Game. Read the comments section and its full of negativity and people wanting refunds for a product that's 18 months late with no sign of delivery. This doesn't bode well for the Ghostbusters KS.
Now, I maybe doing them a dis service, but this is the first KS I've seen than doesn't have a $1 pledge which would allow me to at least ask the questions I have on their comments pages and I've yet to have a response from them via email.
So, based on the AVP experience, CZ's other 18 months late KS with backers crying for refunds, I'll pass on this one. Which is a real shame.
I wouldn't compare Prodos, who no one had ever heard of before their Mutant Chronicles KS, with CZE, a company that successfully handles multiple licenses.
By all means, post your questions here and we can pass them on.
The question is a simple one. What's happening with CZE's other KS that should have delivered in Sept 2013 and reading the comments section, hasn't. People are slating CZE and demanding their money back.
Reading the comments suggests some aspects of the KS has been delivered, but a large part hasn't, and is running 18 months late. I'm not a backer, I've never heard of CZE before, but recent KS experiences have taught me to ask questions before backing anything. What confidence can I have that Ghostbusters will be delivered, when their other KS hasn't?
Manchu why are you white knighting for these guys? I've noticed all of your posts to valid questions or concerns are extremely dismissive. Not only does it make you seem like you're in their pocket.. but you are kinda coming across as a bit arrogant.
TheSecretSquig wrote: The question is a simple one. What's happening with CZE's other KS that should have delivered in Sept 2013 and reading the comments section, hasn't. People are slating CZE and demanding their money back.
Reading the comments suggests some aspects of the KS has been delivered, but a large part hasn't, and is running 18 months late. I'm not a backer, I've never heard of CZE before, but recent KS experiences have taught me to ask questions before backing anything. What confidence can I have that Ghostbusters will be delivered, when their other KS hasn't?
1. Hex is now a separate company entirely, and they are handling that KS. Literally they are on a separate half of the building through a different entrance. CZE and the people running this KS have nothing to do with, nor any input or answers for the Hex game.
2. Having been to the company quite a few times, they have different teams who work on different games. The development of one game does not affect the others, as mentioned before. The success or failure of this KS won't affect their current products, and their current products will not affect this KS.
3. Hex ran into issues with WOTC and supposed patent issues. This game is fully licensed by Sony, and all of the assets shown/used so far have been signed off on by them. It's one particular part of the company I hear about rather frequently.
I don't read Manchu as white knighting. He's optimistic, sure. But that's hardly white knighting, and is not a bad thing.
Please keep in mind, I do not work for CZE, nor do I represent them in any capacity. I'm merely passing on what I've heard and seen.
TheSecretSquig wrote: I've backed AVP by Prodos Games and seen first hand licensing issues. It's all very well the creator telling us everything is good (just like Prodos), but no one really knows how Sony will infulence this (just like Fox and Prodos).
That is a fair worry considering AvP. Honestly if it was a different company I could probably be on the same boat. Prodos however has never dealt with licensing agreements or fulfilling something in that nature and that is where CZE and Prodos differ. I wouldn't really compare to the two KS.
For example CZE is very experienced with licensing games and products from their trading cards to board games. Just some of the licenses they hold Sons of Anarchy, Hobbit, Sleepy Hollow, Arrow, Pacific Rim, Castle, Supernatural, One Upon a Time, Adventure Time, Walking Dead, Breaking Bad and many more just in their Trading Cards. Board games consist of DC, Street Fighter, Naruto, Hobbit, Adventure Time, Walking Dead, Batman to name a few. When it comes to licensing, agreements and creation their whole business model is based on licenses. To be fair some games are hit and miss, not entirely because of CZE as some license agreements mean games have to have certain aspects. Others are considered easier because they are designed to be entry games for new board gamers, fans of the IP, moreso than strategically hard games.
MLaw wrote: Manchu why are you white knighting for these guys? I've noticed all of your posts to valid questions or concerns are extremely dismissive. Not only does it make you seem like you're in their pocket.. but you are kinda coming across as a bit arrogant.
I would probably be considered white knighting compared to Manchu, although I try to have an open mind on some aspects. I'm not sure the posts are dismissive because I think it is way too early to tell what direction things are going in terms of the KS honestly.
TheSecretSquig wrote: The question is a simple one. What's happening with CZE's other KS that should have delivered in Sept 2013 and reading the comments section, hasn't. People are slating CZE and demanding their money back.
Not sure on how anyone would say they haven't delivered. I can't remember the exact date but all backers were delivered their packages. Quite a few kept them, some sold them for a profit even and others got a refund. There was refund tracking to a degree on their forum, most of the communication moved to the forums awhile ago. Anyone who hasn't received money back should have already been handled awhile back when I was following HEX there.
Aerethan wrote: 1. Hex is now a separate company entirely, and they are handling that KS. Literally they are on a separate half of the building through a different entrance. CZE and the people running this KS have nothing to do with, nor any input or answers for the Hex game.
Just for a point of clarify because someone will bring it up. Corey Jones is the only employee is considered an employee of both companies. HEX technically still utilizes CZE's forums for use as well. But other than that, yes they are separate entities in terms of budget, employee's and projects.
TheSecretSquig wrote: What confidence can I have that Ghostbusters will be delivered, when their other KS hasn't?
First, all pledges are tentative until the KS period ends. That includes mine. I really love GB and so far I think CZE's game is a great fit for the franchise BUT I naturally have concerns as well. I have been burned by a few KS projects and I think I have learned what to avoid, at least in broad strokes. But one has to keep in mind that certain omissions don't qualify as "red flags" until some time has passed. In this case, CZE is setting a pretty leisurely pace for announcing and unlocking stretch goals. So it is difficult to judge, for example, to what extent their October 2015 delivery date is reasonable. As I posted in the comments section, once we have a better picture of the scope of this project, then it will be time for CZE to step up and justify this date.
MLaw wrote: Manchu why are you white knighting for these guys?
Get back to me when you have a question that isn't just an insult.
Aerethan wrote: CZE and the people running this KS have nothing to do with, nor any input or answers for the Hex game.
According to another post ITT (by Dark Severance?), the action was filed before Hex split off. So CZE is still a named defendant (and now so is Hex). If that's the case, then CZE still has litigation exposure that could implicate whatever proceeds they take from the GB KS. I haven't read the filings so I don't know for sure. Does anyone have a case number and know the jurisdiction?
Some backers are complaining to that effect in the KS comments section for Hex. I looked into it before making my pledge for the GB board game. The trouble is, reading KS comments sections is a really bad way to form an opinion of a creator.
I have exactly zero details on the Hex/WOTC case, and intend to keep it that way. I don't ask about it at all when I'm at CZE.
That case will likely be going on for a long while, and this KS will have been finished and shipped well before that time.
On that note, I'll not derail this thread any further with speculation about Hex or WOTC as they have nothing to do with Ghostbusters. I'm excited for the game, and it's cool to see it coming out after being in closed testing for so long.
Now, I maybe doing them a dis service, but this is the first KS I've seen than doesn't have a $1 pledge which would allow me to at least ask the questions I have on their comments pages and I've yet to have a response from them via email.
you can just back for a $1 even though there is not a specific level (there'll be a no reward option or something similar), and thus get access to the comments
Now that I think I've figured out a bit how stream tokens interact with the game, must of missed that part when looking at the ghost cards initially. I'm going to add a Gameplay section to the OP for clarity so we aren't always rehashing it. If anyone wants to add to it, adjust it let me know. Then we can update it as more information is released
Gameplay
Here is what we know about it currently: The game consists of scenerios grouped together into a campaign which culminates with a boss battle.
Players get to perform a certain number of actions which can be used to move, shoot proton streams at ghosts, get into Ecto-1, drive Ecto-1 and transfer trapped ghosts to containment/ghost world. Ghosts spawn from Gate Tokens and move differently based on the type of ghost it is. Ghosts movement is based on reacting to players, if they hit do X if they miss do Y. Some movement is random using a D8, others move to nearest slime which means game play is never the same. Lesser ghosts combine together to create a greater ghost. Ghosts attack players by sliming them, which reduces their actions until slime is removed. Ghosts require to be hit by a certain amount of 'streams' to be considered trapped. Capturing ghosts gain players exp which can result in new abilities and actions. They use Ecto-1 to transfer trapped ghosts to ghost land.
Here is what we don't know currently: We do not know where Gate Tokens are placed, if on edge of map or depends on campaign and what determines how often ghosts are spawned and when. We don't know if Ghosts have another movement mechanic that doesn't involve hit, miss action from a player.
MLaw wrote: If you're a lawyer, I got some beachfront property in Montana you might be interested in.
If you show me where on any kickstarter there is wording that would constitute a contract for pledge rewards, then I'll even throw in a bridge.
Don't argue with lawyers.
Kickstarter provides a funding platform for creative projects. When a creator posts a project on Kickstarter, they’re inviting other people to form a contract with them. Anyone who backs a project is accepting the creator’s offer, and forming that contract.
Kickstarter is not a part of this contract — the contract is a direct legal agreement between creators and their backers. Here are the terms that govern that agreement:
Manchu wrote: Some backers are complaining to that effect in the KS comments section for Hex. I looked into it before making my pledge for the GB board game. The trouble is, reading KS comments sections is a really bad way to form an opinion of a creator.
Oh I see the complaints, it isn't that they haven't received their pledge per say... it is more the content they were expecting isn't quite there yet. In other words everyone's pledges were delivered, they were codes that could be kept, sold or transferred to someone else (honestly no smart person would get a refund as the pledges still sell for way more than the pledge $$ spent). Players got Alpha access around 11/20/2013 and my pledges were delivered on 04/23/2014. The complaint isn't so much of missing pledges as currently there is content missing, PvE. They are expecting to have PvE content to play with instead of strictly tournament and PvP content. I thought the last patch introduced some aspects of the PvE but I could be wrong. I'm waiting for it to be finished, as it has been coming along rather well I've put it aside until it is completed to work on other projects.
This is starting to look like the raging heroes thread when it's kickstarter was running, can we all agree not to be so dissmisive of potential backer concerns?
Joyboozer wrote: This is starting to look like the raging heroes thread when it's kickstarter was running, can we all agree not to be so dissmisive of potential backer concerns?
To be fair the only comments I'm dismissive of are "We need game play and rules now!" and "This is Zombicide reskinned" comments. Other than that I believe most comments, even some of my own 'guesswork on plans' is too early to make a judgement or dismissal (on both sides) until we get further along in the campaign. I would expect at least another 2-3 stretch goals and 15 day period to pass before we get to an area to really gauge the direction of everything.
Alpharius wrote: Anyway...$300+K in 2 days is fairly impressive!
And $20K more in about 2.5 hours ... it's making a nice start before the doldrums set in and there's still enough franchise material to keep folks excited about stretch goals.
Yes thanks! Looking over the docket, CZE is still a named defendant (along with Hex Entertainment LLC). CZE answered WotC's complaint back in August and it looks like discovery is underway, which will hypothetically be very extensive (currently scheduled to close in November 2015) as WotC alleges over 100 instances of copyright infringement. A trial has been scheduled for April 2016. It's not unusual to set a trial date so far out; the parties will engage in mediation before going to trial. The majority of all litigation settles before going to trial. As for what's at issue: WotC wants the court to enjoin CZE/Hex's alleged infringements and is seeking damages exceeding $500K and payment of CZE/Hex's gains from the alleged infringements exceeding $500K. Those are probably just nice round numbers. The pleadings don't back them up, anyway. The long and the short of it is, for the purposes of this thread, that CZE faces litigation exposure ... which is not (by itself) too big of a deal. I just listed all these details so people would have some idea of the rather hum drum nature of the case.
Since they haven't added any female Ghostbusters yet, it will be hard to get my wife to play so I'm hoping that happens soon.
Now I just have to dig through all my miniatures and resin models to find this and start painting it... not that I can use it in the game but it reminded me that I do have this resin kin.
Joyboozer wrote: This is starting to look like the raging heroes thread when it's kickstarter was running, can we all agree not to be so dissmisive of potential backer concerns?
To be fair the only comments I'm dismissive of are "We need game play and rules now!" and "This is Zombicide reskinned" comments. Other than that I believe most comments, even some of my own 'guesswork on plans' is too early to make a judgement or dismissal (on both sides) until we get further along in the campaign. I would expect at least another 2-3 stretch goals and 15 day period to pass before we get to an area to really gauge the direction of everything.
A gameplay video is currently in the works and will be released fairly soon, from what I've been told. That should give a pretty good idea of how the game works and what some of the core rules are.
Janine would be great, probably followed by Kylie.
It does look like Ghostbusters KS became a Staff Pick which helps even more with the visibility of it. I can say it is going to be an interesting and entertaining few days at the very least.
Manchu, seriously, they asked you where you got the Cabbie and Gray Lady photos from?
That, to me, is a pretty big danger sign, if company spokespeople for a project don't know what information is being released when or where. Smacks to me of big, bad, ugly, and incompetent in the future.
mrgrigson wrote: Manchu, seriously, they asked you where you got the Cabbie and Gray Lady photos from?
That, to me, is a pretty big danger sign, if company spokespeople for a project don't know what information is being released when or where. Smacks to me of big, bad, ugly, and incompetent in the future.
Yes and no. The 3D designs aren't being done in-house, it is obviously outsourced and it isn't uncommon for someone to "leak" information. It happens in electronic gaming industry all the time, despite NDA's and signed agreements... way too much actually. It is less common with board games and miniatures though.
I think there was a low grade marketing mix up there. They clearly want to keep those images under wraps vis-a-vis the KS but the pics are still up where I found them. Nobody is making too big of a deal of them on the KS site, where I think my post sort of slid right by thanks to most commentators being highly critical but ... well, not very observant if we're being honest. I haven't been able to find those images attached to any other news story filed yesterday so I am not inclined to attribute the slip up to CZE.
Automatically Appended Next Post: LOL as soon as I post that, I go and find a second source:
Thank you, fans. Due to the huge number of requests we received regarding the game from all over the world, we worked with Sony to have our rights expanded to include the WHOLE WORLD. That means wherever you are, you can order it!
Backing Multiple Copies of the Game:
Yes! You can do this! Buy an additional game! Just like with the add-on’s, you will need to increase your pledge amount to include the dollar amount of the game you wish to add. You may add-on one additional game, and with no additional shipping costs! LIMIT: ONE ADDED GAME PER BACKER. You can mix and match with the Paranormal Pledge and the Mass Hysteria Pledge.
With the Retailer Pledge, we cannot up the quantity you can purchase per backer due to Kickstarter rules. We apologize for any inconvenience
International Shipping Costs:
For those EU backers concerned about higher than expected shipping costs, please keep in mind that VAT averages 20% throughout the continent and our average backer pledge is about $150, meaning $30 will be going towards VAT, with the remaining $15 being put towards shipping and handling fees with our EU logistics partner. In many cases the pledge will be higher than $200 in which case $40 will be going towards VAT and we will be eating the incremental S&H fees ourselves.
Game Play/Video:
We have some good news for you! We will be posting a link to the rules primer tomorrow! Game play videos are forthcoming. We have a couple different videos. (Overview, mechanics, etc.) So please bear with us. It is coming!
Stretch Goals/Add-ons:
Contrary to popular belief, we do have a plan for future stretch goals and add-ons! All you need to do is get your friends and family to back so you can see what is coming next!
Licensing:
Yes, this is an officially licensed product with Sony Pictures Consumer Products/Columbia Pictures. We have the rights to sell this game worldwide.
*Something to note: If we haven’t addressed a comment or concern yet, there may be a number of reasons we have not done so. Most importantly, we don’t want to ruin the surprise of any future stretch goal’s/add-ons! We are also seeing a lot of repeat questions that are addressed in the actual body of the campaign, updates, or comments. We’re working hard to bring you the best product possible! So sometimes it might get a little quiet on our end…please be patient!
EU shipping still doesn't make sense to me. I know even with a fulfillment center in EU they are still paying VAT. The VAT estimates though seem really high and based on a retail price instead of a manufacturing price which would defeat the whole purpose of using EU Distribution. I admit I'm the US so really need someone from EU to chime in a bit more.
Manchu wrote: I wonder when the first "so it will be another $50K just for Vinz Clortho" complaint will air ...
Sigh ...
Terror dogs should have been a pair, why even risk funding one but not the other, not saying it wont, it will but that's not the point, these should have been a pair in one stretch goal not sperate
Really? You guys broke them out into two different stretch goals.
I'm also inclined to think that the terror dogs should have been a pair.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In case anyone missed it, CZE has confirmed Zuul and Vinz Clortho have different cards/rules. Yay!
I don't know where they are getting their pricing from but it's more than Conan was at final estimate ($22 Western Europe) and that's 2 big game boards, 2 boxes and over 170 minis plus all the other stuff.
Interested but not until shipping or the total pledge value in items makes it worth it.
Really dislike the retailer exclusive Slimer, nice idea but nearly every indie store I know will just eBay that by itself or staff will keep it. Ultimately people will make or break this, not retailers. They want to support retail then they should be getting retail to take all the risk and see where that gets them.
I'm not sure it really is... I meen it's Ghost Busters minatures, I had expected this ones funding to go crazy high. I think the only way a company could get more money easily from me is if they developed a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles minatures game.
Instead were left with a high funding goal, fairly lack luster stretch goals and not nearly as much excitment as there should be.
I'm backing this and most likely will continue to do so, but I find myself wishing this liscene had been picked up and Kickstarted by CMoN.
The issue is I think they are estimating VAT/Customs charges based on retail prices (which is the only way I can make those numbers work). So currently it just looks like they are sending to a 'broker' in EU and then they are shipping it out to backers, instead of shipping directly to a distribution or fulfillment center.
The only suggestion currently, not the best but at least something, is to find another EU backer and go on a pledge together. Since you can add an additional pledge with no increase to shipping, it at least makes it only $22.50 per backer.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Really dislike the retailer exclusive Slimer, nice idea but nearly every indie store I know will just eBay that by itself or staff will keep it. Ultimately people will make or break this, not retailers. They want to support retail then they should be getting retail to take all the risk and see where that gets them.
I'm torn because I understand wanting to do something special for retailers but again its counter-intuitive to Kickstarter. To me it doesn't bother me much because I tend to paint my miniatures, so glow in the dark is meh to me.
I will say however that I do know if a retailer is found selling it on Ebay you can report it to CZE via their contact help desk. Back during when they did World of Warcraft TCG Battleground Kits and DC Deckbuilding Tournament Kits, they had the issue with retailers selling online. Once it was reported (as tracking it isn't too difficult), they will pull that gamestore/retailer from further shipments if it is correct.
IME store owners/employees maintain separate ebay accounts for scalping exclusives. The Slimer thing is not a big deal in terms of the mini itself. But it is a painfully dumb thing to do in a KS because: you trot out a shiny thing in front of the people most eager to give you money and pass it to someone else who will gouge us later on.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Upcoming Impossible Mode bundle:
We're looking into building bundles of Impossible Mode Ghosts that should be the same price point as the current add-on collections that allows you to buy some Galloping Ghouls, Gruesome Twosomes, and Boogaloo Manifestations in one package. Now its a party!
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm not really sure what to make of this:
What’s with this Add–On of blue Ghosts?
Besides your shelves lined with beguiling blue baddies peering down at you with menacing intent, we hand crafted special scenarios exclusively for the additional Ghost Add-Ons!
The Base Game is balanced as it is and does not require additional Ghosts to get the full value out of it. But if you are like us, and we like to break push the envelope of paranormal danger, you’ll want to put your team in the middle of an outbreak of epic proportions!
So if the base game is self-contained, are these special scenarios ... yet to be announced SGs?
Manchu wrote: So if the base game is self-contained, are these special scenarios ... yet to be announced SGs?
The only comparison I can make is Zombicide. There are enough zombies sold with Zombicide you do not need extra to get the full value of the game. More zombies sculpts you add can be used to create your own custom scenarios or increase the difficulty up a notch but they are not needed.
Honestly there is no reason to get blue Ghosts Add-ons, unless someone somehow wants to use them to proxy a ghost army in a miniatures game. For the same value just get the red Ghost Add-ons, then you have the cards for Impossible Mode. If you can use the miniatures for Impossible Mode or extra regular mode if you want at that point.
Impossible Mode is essentially its own little expansion/game mode bundle to add something a bit more diverse to the game. To quote the examples given in the comments so they aren't lost in the flood.
Standard Gruesome Twosome - Class 2 To Hit: 4
To Trap: 2
When Hit: Moves 1 space towards that Ghostbuster.
When Missed: Moves 1 space towards that Ghostbuster, then move 1 space in a random direction.
Special: If a Gruesome Twosome moves into the same space as another Gruesome Twosome, remove them both from the map and replace them with a Boogaloo from the Spirit World.
Impossible Mode Gruesome Twosome - Class 2.1 To Hit: 4
To Trap: 2
When Hit: Moves 2 spaces towards that Ghostbuster.
When Missed: It and all Gruesome Twosomes within Line of Sight of it move 1 space towards that Ghostbuster, then move 1 space in a random direction.
Special: If a Gruesome Twosome moves into the same space as another Gruesome Twosome, remove them both from the map and replace them with a Boogaloo Manifestation from the Spirit World.
The reason they are red (still would prefer an alternate sculpt, hopefully that comes later) is because they interact differently. In theory you could do the same with the blue ghosts, simply use a "token/marker" to track it seperately as the 'Impossible Mode Version'.
Just based on this example you really want to first target Standard Gruesome Twosomes, once the board is clear of them then target the Impossible Mode Gruesome Twosome... because if you don't, when you miss then you risk all Greusome Twosomes in LoS to move towards the firing Ghostbuster.
I had completely missed the Impossible Mode stats, thanks very much for posting them. Did they post any others or just the Gruesome Twosome?
It's not so bad that Impossible GTs with LOS on a GB move toward that GB -- the big problem is that they then all move once more in a random direction. So, in effect, they clump up and then have a better chance of bumping into each other and becoming a Boogaloo.
The real question is, if a blue and red GT combine what color Boogaloo results?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
We can confirm that the add-ons and applicable stretch goals will indeed fit into both the Base Game box or the Deluxe version.
Manchu wrote: I had completely missed the Impossible Mode stats, thanks very much for posting them. Did they post any others or just the Gruesome Twosome?
So far just the Gruesome Twosome. Although they said they will work on the graphic to add the cards to the picture, so hopefully we'll be able to read some of the other stats too. At least I have a better understanding of what Impossible Mode is and how it interacts.
Manchu wrote: It's not so bad that Impossible GTs with LOS on a GB move toward that GB -- the big problem is that they then all move once more in a random direction. So, in effect, they clump up and then have a better chance of bumping into each other and becoming a Boogaloo.
The real question is, if a blue and red GT combine what color Boogaloo results?
Yep that is what makes it seriously harder also why I said priority targets are actually the regular ghosts first, then the impossible one while it is isolated. However there is another issue with that, which answers your second question. If an Impossible Mode Ghost bumps into a Regular Mode Ghost, they merge and become Impossible Mode version. So a regular Ghoul and a Impossible Ghoul merge, it then becomes a Impossible Gruesome Twosome.
IWe can confirm that the add-ons and applicable stretch goals will indeed fit into both the Base Game box or the Deluxe version.
I'm not sure how to take that. I mean at least with the games that I have, the miniatures and add-ons always fit in the box. The big issue is they never fit with the packaging (ie protective layers) they come with. For example Zombicide the base game fits in the plastic containers, in the base box. If I have add-ons they didn't fit unless I took them out of the boxes and created my own sorting/boxing method. So simply stating they will fit into the box is nice... but how it fits is a different story.
Another example at least with CZE products are the Deckbuilding games. They fit perfectly in the container provided, even with the expansions they still do. The issue is when you sleeve them. Once the cards are sleeved they do not fit accordingly without a little work around.
Now granted I'm not having to sleeve cards as this appears to be a cardless system so that is good. Tokens usually go in a baggie so they don't take up a lot of room. If someone isn't painting it should be fine, throw the miniatures into a baggie and they are good. If they are painting them, then they'll want better care of them. In one Zombicide game I painted the survivors, so they are in their case but the zombies I haven't really painted or did a rush job so wasn't worried about them dinged up... they are in a baggie.
It's a nice tight rope style choice and very situational. You want to eliminate Imp GTs because they form Imp Boogaloos, and they are just as easy/hard to hit as regular GTs -- but that also means you have the same chance of missing, creating a clump, and ending up with the Imp Boogaloo you were trying to avoid in the first place.
Update #6 You said you wanted to see some rules...
Well, here you go! We have included a link to our rules primer. It should be noted that this is a quick rundown of most of the basic rules of the game. The final rulebook will be very polished with lots of graphics and other exclusive art to aid in your Ghostbusters training. Some of the rules below are scenario specific, and not all scenarios will feature these same conditions. We hope this will answer a lot of your questions. Leave us some comments and let us know what you think!
And in case some of you missed it in the comments, we have received a lot of well-crafted questions about how Impossible Mode adds value. We hear you!
Rather than just bumping up their stats, we've created abilities that will make you think twice about picking a fight with one of these red devils.
As an example, here's a preview of the Impossible Mode Gruesome Twosome
Impossible Mode Gruesome Twosome
Class 2.1
To Hit: 4
To Trap: 2
When Hit: Moves 2 spaces towards that Ghostbuster.
When Missed: It and all Gruesome Twosomes within Line of Sight of it move 1 space towards that Ghostbuster, then move 1 space in a random direction.
Special: If a Gruesome Twosome moves into the same space as another Gruesome Twosome, remove them both from the map and replace them with a Boogaloo from the Spirit World.
As you can see from the Gruesome Twosome's Ghost card featured in the Base Game Contents picture:
Standard Gruesome Twosome
Class 2
To Hit: 4
To Trap: 2
When Hit: Moves 1 space towards that Ghostbuster.
When Missed: Moves 1 space towards that Ghostbuster, then move 1 space in a random direction.
Special: If a Gruesome Twosome moves into the same space as another Gruesome Twosome, remove them both from the map and replace them with a Boogaloo from the Spirit World.
By comparison, these fierce little buggers really want to get a good look at your spiffy uniform when you hit them. On top of that, if you miss a shot, they raise an alarm to all their friends, standard or Impossible!
What’s with this Add–On of blue Ghosts?
Besides your shelves lined with beguiling blue baddies peering down at you with menacing intent, we hand crafted special scenarios exclusively for the additional Ghost Add-Ons.
The Base Game is balanced as it is and does not require additional Ghosts to get the full value out of it. But if you are like us, and we like to break push the envelope of paranormal danger, you’ll want to put your team in the middle of an outbreak of epic proportions!
More add-on configurations are coming!
Check back later today to see what's in store!
Added rules link to the OP. Ghost Spawns is also nothing like Zombicide, the gates aren't off the map they are actually on the map. The mechanics for closing a gate is interesting. It appears that random dice rolls determine when and where a new ghost will spawn based on the matching symbol. So it isn't like you just get overun by a horde of ghosts. I definitely see potential int his.
That makes me sad :( We don't know if other scenarios will have new rules but most likely not. There are some Ghosts that require two different colored streams, so it needs at least two players to hit vs only one player... but yeah no crossing the streams.
I know its a primer, but still needs to explain a bit more about trapping ghosts. The example is easy one stream, it becomes trapped. When hitting a ghost that requires multiple streams, does it require it on the same turn, do the stream tokens stay with the ghost? I'm guessing it does, which makes sense but I could see pro/cons to making the streams only last a turn too.
Manchu wrote: Although I can't think of any other reason the stream markers would be color-coded.
Dark Severance wrote: There are some Ghosts that require two different colored streams
Ah there we go.
Yeah in the case of Slimer we have:
Slimer - Class 5 Invulnerable: Slimer is unaffected by combat until ALL Gates are closed.
To Hit: 4 or higher
To Trap: 4 streams (at least 2 Ghostbusters must have at least 2 streams)
When Hit: Moves 3 spaces toward that Ghostbuster
When Missed: Any adjacent Ghostbusters get Slimed, then Slimer moves 1 space in a random direction, then moves 2 spaces towards the next Slime.
Special: When Slimer reachs a Slime, remove it and increase "To Trap" by 2.
Note: If Slimer leaves the map, he reenters from the space on the opposite edge.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Interesting... so the Streams stay with the ghost until it moves out of LoS or off the board map, then they are lost and you have to restream ghosts to trap them if they need more than one stream.
Replenishing Proton Stream tokens-- Each Ghostbuster has 5 Stream tokens. If all 5 of yours are attached to a Ghost, and that is not enough to Trap it, you will need some help! You don't replenish your PS tokens until the Stream is broken or the Ghost is captured. Then all of your PS tokens are returned to you. If you have a Stream on a Ghost and fire at a new target, you lose all Streams on the old target.
Losing a stream marker when a ghost moves out of LOS seems pretty fiddly.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Replenishing Proton Stream tokens-- Each Ghostbuster has 5 Stream tokens. If all 5 of yours are attached to a Ghost, and that is not enough to Trap it, you will need some help! You don't replenish your PS tokens until the Stream is broken or the Ghost is captured. Then all of your PS tokens are returned to you. If you have a Stream on a Ghost and fire at a new target, you lose all Streams on the old target.
OK good -- big relief that you can only target one ghost at a time. I suspected you could put markers on multiple ghosts, which was playing havoc with my sense of simulation.
@creator - If two ghosts on the map combine to make a higher level ghost, does the model for the higher level ghost come from the available pool of ghosts off of the map (and the lower-level figures would therefore go into the pool of ghosts available to spawn)?
If so, what happens if two lower-level ghosts combine but you don't have a higher-level ghost figure available off-mat?
@Manchu re: Combining Ghosts -- The higher Class Ghost must come from the Spirit World (off map). The two Ghosts that combined are both removed from game. If the upgraded version is not in the Spirit World at the time, your team loses the game!
It really is growing on me. At first I was like meh and now I'm like, can I play now. Probably going put my Sedition War game boards to use, since they are square based and play a mockup version.
Now that we know the Gates aren't static placements off the edge (like in Zombicide) that definitely makes a lot more options for gameplay. Since there is a limited amount of ghosts if you ignore the Class 1 ghosts and only go after Class 2/3, you can risk more Class 1 combining into 2/3... since Class 1 pile gets replenished each time a Class 2/3 is made.
I dunno - you will always have less figures of higher class ghosts available overall so you really need to prevent ghosts from combining (since you can never lose the game by running out of class 1 ghosts if there are higher classes left).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Venkman could be the man to do it, too!
Would Venkman's 4th level skill chain if the roll for the free combat action also hits?
Yes, it does chain! Of course, he would need to be neck deep in Ghosts/Gates to chain more than a couple times. Not that he minds that... - Matt Hyra (MH)
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Automatically Appended Next Post: So I guess no distinction between Boss and Ghost cards:
Every enemy is represented on a "Ghost Card", So, yes. Gozer, Zull, and Vinz Clortho are bosses, and all bosses count as Ghosts. -Mataio Wilson
That is why it'll take a balance of trapping Class 1/2. In the example scenario there are only 2 Class 2 and 1 Class 3. You can't just trap a ghost and leave it too, it needs to be returned to the Spirit World. Then you still run a risk the Class 1 become new Class 2... so basically jumping around catching multiple ghosts.
It can definitely provide some difficult choices mixed in with the random movement. Do you hit the ghost close to you because you don't want to be slimed or have to shoot at another ghost who could possibly combine next turn.
It does feel like it is losing momentum though... I think we're close to that plateau where we need to start increasing the average pledge. If they resolve the EU thing, that would also greatly help. Hopefully the next SG is some sort of tiles, encounter, scenario expansion or a combination of a unlock and new thing... Although they could probably do a 4 pack of miniatures for "New Ghostbusters (ie: some female miniatures)" as a Add-On next and that would probably get them to the $500K mark.
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Manchu wrote: So I guess no distinction between Boss and Ghost cards:
Every enemy is represented on a "Ghost Card", So, yes. Gozer, Zull, and Vinz Clortho are bosses, and all bosses count as Ghosts. -Mataio Wilson
That does make sense to a degree. It would really just be a "Class X" card instead of a boss. We haven't seen a Boss card fully so we assumed it was titled different because they labeled it a boss.
They have changed the rewards images so that the term "Boss Card" is now "Ghost Card."
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Dark Severance wrote: I think we're close to that plateau where we need to start increasing the average pledge.
Yep. I am surprised we are doing another $50K free SG rather than a $25-$30K add-on SG. I guess they wanted to get the Gozer trio out of the way, as it might be anticlimactic later on?
So now Zombicide comparisons include that its a tile game, there are miniatures, dice and it has a AI.. so it is similar to Zombicide... They don't play the same enough to even warrant them being called similar. Well I guess if you consider them both fruit but one is really a tomato and the other is a apple.
What was the very first board game where people moved around with squares, had miniatures and an AI monster? I'm fairly sure it wasn't Zombicide but I'm going to say this game is like that now. I guess I relate games being similar based off of mechanics not how they look. Even the zombie/ghost AI function completely differently between the two games.
I will say at least the comments have become a lot more constructive today. Although I believe they always were but now backers feel like CZE is listening more since they made the announcement about the bundle deals.
Looking at the projects people making that comparison have backed in the past, I notice they usually have not backed a ton of table top games so that may be a clue.
In any case, here's some news:
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Dark Severance wrote: I will say at least the comments have become a lot more constructive today. Although I believe they always were but now backers feel like CZE is listening more since they made the announcement about the bundle deals.
I first read the Zombicide comparison on BGG -- notorious, imo, for making bad comparisons. No, Havana and Cuba are not comparable games because they have the same art.
OTOH, GB's still sounding like a "roll dice to hit" system, which pretty much describes too many dungeoncrawlers and RPGs I have. It *is* suitable for the casual gamers. Conan's "energy units" mechanic added some depth to the game, and Myth's cards at least has some variety.
ced1106 wrote: OTOH, GB's still sounding like a "roll dice to hit" system, which pretty much describes too many dungeon crawlers and RPGs I have. It *is* suitable for the casual gamers. Conan's "energy units" mechanic added some depth to the game, and Myth's cards at least has some variety.
It is a bit more than just a hit, at least at higher class Ghosts. A hit does do something but it can do something else which adds a bit more randomness. For example Slimer when hit (requires multiple hits) moves 3 spaces towards that Ghostbuster, Class 2 moves 1 space towards that Ghostbuster. Misses also causes something to happen, move away, towards or random direction and leave a slime depending on the ghost. Although the mechanics of the game are fairly simple, it is layered pretty well to create an interesting mix of gameplay.
Conan's mechanic drew me to back the game eventually. But the downside is that it still requires a player to be an Overlord, there is no AI mechanic built in. Like a lot of dungeon crawlers, that is the same thing that also requires a DM to power the forces. The AI isn't quite as simple as Zombicide so it is a bit harder to manipulate like you can with Zombicide. The Ghost AI is fairly well done. There are a couple things I might have done differently but overall I think its a good system.
And really soon we get to the real determination of how this KS will develop or turn out. We starting to reach that plateau, later than I actually would of predicted though but it is clear that it is happening. It may take another day to unlock the SG and if they throw another $50K SG for one miniature or one thing again that is free, I have a feeling it will stall for awhile.
We've already lost some backers but that is most likely to the EU situation not being handled to their liking. I would still like to see something else done to improve that.
Day 1: 1422 Backers, $204,407
Day 2: 942 Backers, $140,793
Day 3: 430 Backers, $73,166
Day 4: 95 Backers, $17,542
We are still on Day 4 but it is clear the train is slowing down. By looking at the average dollars per backer we can see most of the funding currently is based on new backers. There was a insurgence on Day 3 because of the bundle announcements which bumped the average backer dollars up by $10. It wasn't a huge amount though because they are still same sculpts with some new scenarios... I like the new bundles though.
Now we get into the realm of seeing how the campaign is really designed to shape up. If all SG's were done at a $50K and are only one sculpt, then they would have severely estimated this and KS incorrectly. If that early extra funding was to unlock some surprises meant for later, then they might have planned correctly. Either way it is always the mid campaign that determines if the KS stalls or will continue to grow.
The needle did not move much at all when the bundles were officially announced in an update, it was too late into the (American) night. The big pushes are coming during the (American) day. Notwithstanding all the complaining, shipping to EU (and most of ROW) right now is only 29 USD more expensive than for US backers. If they figure out a way to deal with the VAT issue, which they have just posted they are actively doing, then maybe EU backers will step up.
I totally agree that the next SG announcement is hugely important. It needs to be less than $50k and it needs to be an add-on.
The other thing is, we're heading into the weekend so the pledge flow is going to slow way down either way.
I don't think I can justify getting in on this one (already have plenty of games that don't get enough table time), but as a bit of a collector I'd love to get a set of the glow in the dark dice.
Hopefully that gets made as an add on, or I might just have to toss in a dollar to get commenting rights and see if anyone wants to sell theirs off whenever delivery finally happens.
Right now, the dice are not a good deal for collectors as they don't have the GB symbol or anything. I am hoping that gets added at some point.
I also have a ton of stuff that never gets played, especially in the board game department as I enjoy board games much more in theory than in practice. But this one seems like a good bet because it is quite strait forward and the license is well-liked enough that I could probably convince non-gamer friends to give it a go.
Manchu wrote: Right now, the dice are not a good deal for collectors as they don't have the GB symbol or anything. I am hoping that gets added at some point.
Eh, glow in the dark dice and getting to contribute a couple of bucks to a neat campaign would be good enough for me. Having the logo on them would be icing.
That said, apparently one has to buy in at a tier to buy add ons, so I think I'll have to resort to plan B and see if any backers wish to sell theirs off when the day comes.
A lot of us have been lobbying for some of the Deluxe stuff to be available as a separate add-on. I think that would be an especially good idea for dice. But CZE is trying to balance serving everything up cafeterian style with maintaining the Deluxe pledge's value. So a glowy dice add-on might be more expensive than one would otherwise expect.
Additional glow in the dark dice as add-on could become a possibility. Well hopefully what I said makes sense to them and I'm not being placated. Traditionally CZE has done a good job of listening to players but not just responding to the loudest voice. That has been good, some of the decisions as a company I've agreed with and have been good and others I have not.
Man it is a sloooooow crawl to $450K, as predicted. If the next SG needs another $50K step, we probably won't get there until this coming Tuesday at the earliest.
I bet CZE is discussing a la carte pricing on the Deluxe exclusives as I type this, Dark Severance. If I can get Angry Stay Puft, Sandman, and the Sedgewick tiles for under $45, I'll step down to Paranormal (unless a Mass Hysteria early bird opens). The Deluxe box is meh beyond meh, glow in the dark dice do not excite me, and the giclee print is useless filler.
That said, I can foresee complaints about a $20 Angry Stay Puft add-on, and they would not be unjustified ...
Yeah there will be people who will step down but also people will step up. I always end up falling into the trap of stepping up :(
I end up going in for an amount and once I hit, its only $10 more I end up upgrading. Usually though, those KS have additional content that gets added specifically to that pledge that makes the value worth it though.
Take the Trio we've unlocked as examples. Ecto-1 would have been an update for all pledges. However the Trio would have probably had them be free for Deluxe. I'd then make an additional Trio Add-On for them but overall the big value is in Deluxe. It does let someone customize though, if they only want Base and the Trio too. Unfortunately they didn't do that initially so it is a bit too late to do that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think we're more or less on the same track. There is definitely some good discussions and brain storming. Then we get the occasional backer who has no KS experience other than GB and Conan... I'm not sure they understand KS Exclusives that well.
Yeah pretty much. Honestly if it is another $50K SG for a single miniature... I'm not backing out, but I'll be away from comments for awhile. Not because I don't mind debating and discussing but because its for my sanity. I am already constantly checking totals like a kid in the back of the car going, "Are we there yet?".
Unfortunately I've seen too many KS where good suggestions usually don't effect things until the campaign has truly stalled. That means waiting another few days for any real adjustments, which by then means we lose momentum. I mean it won't stop it but does make it less exciting which can result in buyers remorse and people pulling to wait for retail.
Yeah it is only 4 days but it is a real hard 4 days. It has been awhile since I've seen a KS goes backwards meaning start out with high SG and then go smaller. Everyone likes going through SGs but with already a high Fund Goal of $250K and $50K SGs it seems insane.
Yes and Yes! Technically it is still another $50K SG but at least presented this way psychologically I can convince myself it is only a $25K SG.
Manchu wrote: Those CZE guys are smart! What a fantastic update!
Let's not go that far :p Although close to what I was suggesting. Just wish I knew if it was because of backer suggestions or if this was initially the plan. Also makes me wonder if they would have lowered it if they stalled sooner too. I won't know until Origins which will be the next time I go drinking with them.
That update (1) halves the current SG step, (2) is a no-brainer add-on for all non-retailer backers, (3) sweetens the $125 tier, and (4) teases the single most requested SG.
I'd say they did better than any of our suggestions!
Manchu wrote: That update (1) halves the current SG step, (2) is a no-brainer add-on for all non-retailer backers, (3) sweetens the $125 tier, and (4) teases the single most requested SG.
I'd say they did better than any of our suggestions!
People really hot and bothered for Jenine over there?
cincydooley wrote: People really hot and bothered for Jenine over there?
I'm happy they have a female Ghostbuster, although they still could have done a couple females, one as free and another as a Add-On but I'm not going to complain. Having a female miniature makes it easier to get the wife and daughter to play too.
cincydooley wrote: People really hot and bothered for Jenine over there?
I'm happy they have a female Ghostbuster, although they still could have done a couple females, one as free and another as a Add-On but I'm not going to complain. Having a female miniature makes it easier to get the wife and daughter to play too.
Didn't mean it like that. But I understand. With that being said, I'll be one of those dudes in the "won't be seeing Bridesmaid-Busters" camp whenever it comes out.
I really think this looks very neat. But there is soooo much stuff coming up in late Feb/March that I'm not sure If I like it enough to throw money at it.
We shall see.
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Manchu wrote: OMG yes. A lot of people are also asking for Kylie but not nearly so many as asked for Janine.
Manchu wrote: Kylie was probably the least annoying new character from Extreme Ghostbusters and she also appears in the comics.
Okay, cool. I'll have to check that out.
My fondest memories are of the old school animated show. It's another one that I'm afraid to go back to in the event that, like Voltron, it's actually crap.
I am pretty excited about an all-female cast led by Kristen Wiig. I just wish they had cast Emma Stone, as per Bill Murray's suggestion as an analog for either Peter or Ray.
cincydooley wrote: My fondest memories are of the old school animated show. It's another one that I'm afraid to go back to in the event that, like Voltron, it's actually crap.
You may remember that I am a HUGE fan of Voltron (hence my Dakka title) but yes ... it is totally insufferable. The Real Ghostbusters is a lot better but that's not saying much. Extreme Ghostbusters is ... not to my taste (soooo by the numbers). If you want good GB content beyond the movies, check out the Activision video game from 2009 -- which is AMAZING -- and the comics by IDW.
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Dark Severance wrote: Just wish I knew if it was because of backer suggestions or if this was initially the plan.
CZE wrote:We had been working with the numbers to make things just right, and reading your comments helped seal the deal!
How dare you insult Voltron like that?!?!? Unfortunately it is hard to watch the old cartoons though. I remember watching G1 Transformers the other day and my son came into the room, looked at the TV, rolled his eyes and left.
When I lived in Hawaii I actually remember being at the State Fair, they had a huge stage where Voltron showed up. Well live actors that portrayed them, but they had giant lion head mockups they climbed out of.
Dark Severance wrote: How dare you insult Voltron like that?!?!? Unfortunately it is hard to watch the old cartoons though. I remember watching G1 Transformers the other day and my son came into the room, looked at the TV, rolled his eyes and left.
I ruined my childhood memories of Voltron and Thundercats because of Netflix.
I refuse to watch any old Transformers or Ninja Turtles....
After playing War for Cybertron (holy cow it's awesome), I tried to watch some G1 episodes. It's just painful light/noise driving mercilessly into my skull through my eyes and ears. At that moment, I realized how patient my parents were in the 80s.
@cincey
If you want TMNT, watch Nickelodeon's new CGI version. It is really good. IDW's series (totally separate from Nick's show) is also wonderful.
Manchu wrote: If you want TMNT, watch Nickelodeon's new CGI version.
I will second that, been enjoying that one too... err I mean I'm watching it with my children who enjoy it. I have to preview what they watch to make sure it is suitable. ^_^
Smaller stretch goals can feel like that. You tend to see it as $5K up and only $20K away... which is much better than $5K done and $45K left to go. There are also a couple I knew waiting to see a female Ghostbuster, two friends of mine just backed because of Janine. Then you have people like me who finally upped their pledge. I haven't decided if I really want the extra ghosts but I expect a few other Add-On's later that I can always choose instead anyways.
It is so weird to see that 'primed gray' miniatures are popular.
CZE has strongly hinted at eventually including Kylie Griffin, who first appeared in Extreme Ghostbusters, as a playable character. I am not sure if that means their license includes Extreme Ghostbusters, because she's also in IDW's comics.
CZE has strongly hinted at eventually including Kylie Griffin, who first appeared in Extreme Ghostbusters, as a playable character. I am not sure if that means their license includes Extreme Ghostbusters, because she's also in IDW's comics.
Manchu wrote: I am pretty excited about an all-female cast led by Kristen Wiig. I just wish they had cast Emma Stone, as per Bill Murray's suggestion as an analog for either Peter or Ray.
But given that is not a thing that exists yet ... the licensing could be a tad ... complicated.
I really don't want to drop the $125, but this is shaping up to look like one of those Kickstarters you grab, or later wish you had, to get all the exclusive loot
adamsouza wrote: I really don't want to drop the $125, but this is shaping up to look like one of those Kickstarters you grab, or later wish you had, to get all the exclusive loot
Isn't every KS these days starting to feel like that?
@$500K and climbing, so we have officially unlocked Janine. Just not sure when we'll get news, I expect sometime today though at least I can't see them going the whole weekend without at least posting new SG's, holiday weekend or not.
adamsouza wrote: I really don't want to drop the $125, but this is shaping up to look like one of those Kickstarters you grab, or later wish you had, to get all the exclusive loot
Isn't every KS these days starting to feel like that?
I get what you are saying, but I honestly don't feel that way. There are many a KS that doesn't go the extra mile and offer "good" exclusive loot. My Spidey sense is also pretty good about tingling when a KS seems shaky, or when one seems destined for greatness. So far this KS is sending me nothing but good vibes.
And thus begins the kickstarter doldrums, granted this happens with every kickstarter but I wonder if that period between initial surge and last few days of excitement frays there nerves? Granted its prolly a lot easier to deal with when your already well past funded
I don't know that we've hit the plateau just yet. The weekend should have slowed to a drip (especially with the holiday) but instead we're just shy of the next SG. CZE really played their cards well on Friday evening.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Whoops, there it is. And the next SG is a $25K step for a Phantom Cabbie set:
Alpharius wrote: Yeah, but can we really trust your Souza-Sense?!?
Spoiler:
Yes. Just ask my buddies who backed Torn Armor, after I refused to. I also had the good sense not to back the sci fi miniatures one that the guy from Defiance games spent all the KS money on booze and strippers.
You are correct in noting that the ghosts mentioned are not KS exclusive. For those wanting the scenarios we can make those cards available for P&P once games have shipped. Availability and accessibility of those ghosts post KS is yet to be determined.
I figured this would happen anyways, if they didn't do it someone would have pictures of them. This happened for X-Wing, Attack Wing and even Zombicide by players. The good news is you don't have to purchase the regular mobs if you are really only interested in the scenario cards, since they will be available for Print and Play later. The red ghosts are really only needed for Impossible Mode, although you could use blue and then just use a different base for them... although the easiest thing seems to get the red and use P&P cards, if you need extra ghosts use red for those scenarios as well.
So far I've played about ten games using terrain. For the most part one square equals three inches of movement seems to be working. The randomness can throw a quark in things, there were 2 games where that movement seemed too little and one game where it seemed way too much. On the plus side you don't have to worry about ghosts falling off the table, just have them enter from the other side (like it is done on the board game).
Someone on BGG brought up an interesting question about line of sight. On the board game it seemed fairly straight forward but they talked about tree's, railings, subway entrances, etc. I've always felt like the ghosts were flying, so the railings and entrances didn't really block. Tree's are an interesting thing though to consider. Technically a tree could be large enough to block LoS but usually they aren't big enough to provide cover for miniatures. If the stream hits the tree, is it enough to break it where it would effect the trapping of the ghost?
Protron streams are shown to create a lot of damage so I think anything that would constitute "light cover" wouldn't block line of fire, maybe just give a penalty.
adamsouza wrote: I really don't want to drop the $125, but this is shaping up to look like one of those Kickstarters you grab, or later wish you had, to get all the exclusive loot
Isn't every KS these days starting to feel like that?
I get what you are saying, but I honestly don't feel that way. There are many a KS that doesn't go the extra mile and offer "good" exclusive loot. My Spidey sense is also pretty good about tingling when a KS seems shaky, or when one seems destined for greatness. So far this KS is sending me nothing but good vibes.
I'm in the boat of having absolutely no doubt they'll be able to deliver... because I think they could have very easily gone straight to retail with this. I'd even be willing to wager that a huge portion of this is mostly done and they're just "adding" stuff to keep the momentum going. I backed Rum and Bones and I know for a fact all of those models were ready because they were all existing sculpts and the game itself seemed pretty much ready to go. The speed things are added to Kickstarters like this and the fact that they are ready to roll with images, measurements, etc.. They're milking the pre-order aspect of KSIMO. I wouldn't be surprised if the mass-production work on this wasn't already underway.
Janine and she is pink... I'm overjoyed. Although the color doesn't really matter since I will eventually paint them.
I would be interested in seeing his card or having some more information on how he plays. Hopefully they'll do that when CZE gets back from NYC and Toy Fair.
The next stretch goal and we're back to $50K freebies.
They said he was only $10 for the Cabbie... at least I'm pretty sure that was it. I'll double check.
And lastly, we want to confirm that the upcoming Zombie Taxi Driver Add-on will be $10. Thanks for all of the continued support, great suggestions and feedback.
Found it, it was at the bottom of a couple updates ago.
We going to be seeing more Ghostbusters, such as the meddling kids from Extreme GB, and the other guy ( I think it was the baby from the first movie) videogame?
Great looking game, I'm hoping to jump on in a couple of days if things go well in the cash front.
I'm liking everything I see so far on this one. Great job!!!!
adamsouza wrote: I really don't want to drop the $125, but this is shaping up to look like one of those Kickstarters you grab, or later wish you had, to get all the exclusive loot
I'm only a fan of the GBI movie and not the cartoons, so... nope, won't wish this at all. The Janine figure is about it and I'll just wait for a female Paranormal Investigator not-GB miniature whose clothes aren't torn off.
The GB boardgame is trending to 2M+ and, while Cryptozoic has a reputation for mediocre gameplay, it'll deliver.
You can also get some not-GB Paranormal Investigators from Crooked Dice, located in the UK. Savage Ghostbusters is a fanmade ruleset using the Savage Worlds game system.
Been out of town since Thursday. I can tell you that I mentioned the Janine goal getting bumped up the list ASAP and they had definitely noticed demand for it in the comments on KS, so they got her in early. I do know one reason she took a little longer was that they were waiting for the sculpt design to be finished as it was one of the last ones to get started.
I can't speak as to what the other SG's are(NDA nonsense and such) but I can tell you they have more than enough for the pace the campaign is going at. I am waiting to hear back on what will happen with any SG's that don't get announced/hit. If it's models they've already paid to have sculpted then I'd imagine they would want to at least recoup costs on those, but I have no certain answer on it.
Still not too happy about the $50K Stretch Goals. I'll be interested in what their update is today, now that they are back in the office. I want to hope the reason is because we've been unlocking two sculpts, one is a Kickstarter Exclusive and the other is a retail version... but part of me says it isn't. However I will still reserve final judgements until we get much closer to the end, I've seen many campaigns where you think its going on direction and surprise you with a few things you didn't expect.
I hope they start filling us in on some more game-related info, like a look at some of these ghost cards we have been unlocking. It would also be nice to have more video content but I strongly suspect it all needs to be done in CGI (if that's the right term) and the NY Toy Fair is a pretty big distraction for CZE. At this point, I am looking forward to (i.e., hoping for) more info next week.
It was hinted that today would be answering some questions and the game play video would come out in the update. They were going to do it last night but there were some questions they were waiting on an answer for, so hopefully that is today.
I do feel like they should be doing more updates. Usually campaigns release information about the ghosts, their play styles, etc. They don't have to show a picture of the card, they could write up something even if its only a paragraph long but some sort of background is nice.
Yeah, at this point I feel like they are being a bit aloof but I have not followed the comment section very closely since Friday so maybe that has effected my perception.
You can also get some not-GB Paranormal Investigators from Crooked Dice, located in the UK. Savage Ghostbusters is a fanmade ruleset using the Savage Worlds game system.
They go out of stock, so if you want them.. I'd say get them when you see them. I missed them the previous time and managed to get some this re-stock.They aren't cheap either :(
You can also get some not-GB Paranormal Investigators from Crooked Dice, located in the UK. Savage Ghostbusters is a fanmade ruleset using the Savage Worlds game system.
They go out of stock, so if you want them.. I'd say get them when you see them. I missed them the previous time and managed to get some this re-stock.They aren't cheap either :(
They seem to be in stock now, and they're only 15 GBP, which is only what....$22 bucks? $5-6 bucks for a good looking model isn't bad at all
Manchu wrote: For North Americans, Noble Knight sometimes carries these.
I did try them but they were out too.. lol it's like these guys are popular or something..
@cincydooley - It's the cost after you add in the shipping. 5 models to the states was 20 GBP. Is that crazy high? Nah, but it's high enough that it ate into my gaming budget.
Manchu wrote: For North Americans, Noble Knight sometimes carries these.
I did try them but they were out too.. lol it's like these guys are popular or something..
@cincydooley - It's the cost after you add in the shipping. 5 models to the states was 20 GBP. Is that crazy high? Nah, but it's high enough that it ate into my gaming budget.
Honestly, after your comment I was expecting them to be north of $10 each, which starts to get a bit high. I've not been to that site before. Thanks for killing my wallet
lol, Crooked Dice is one of those companies that I always forget about..then I remember and it's like.. wait.. those.. arg.. I was going to buy those!!!
I'm really keen on the Task Force X guys and the future rebel types.. I wanted a bunch of those for 28mm Star Wars but it's just not practical.
If you're doing Ghostbusters stuff, Black Cat Bases has some haunted scenery.. hands from a computer screen, a crate with tentacles, that kind of thing.. If you are wanting scenery to make the firehouse from GB, check out Copplestone Casting's Kiss Kiss Bang Bang section and a few of the others.. they have retro/pulp looking computers and furniture that fits the Ghostbusters IMO.
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Manchu wrote: Did you order from Crooked Dice? I thought their S&H was crazy high.
Yeah, I ordered from the site :/
All I ordered was the Paranormal Exterminators and it was 5GBP shipping. Ugh..
All this talk of alternate Ghost Busters made me remember that that was someone out there that did a not-Scooby Gang set of minis - anyone remember who?
Heresy has some nicer demon dogs if you're going all in
For the actual boardgame that the kickstarter is for.. it'd be kinda funny if that old 80s Ghostbuster cartoon got a nod somehow.. The one with the Gorilla and the wacked out old car.
I'll still reserve judgement until the last 24 hours, they might have some other surprises but that last update pretty much cinches it on the reason for high stretch goals and goal. It doesn't appear there is going to be any real support for this game outside of the KS and initial retail boxes. Since all KS exclusives are truly exclusives, no alternate sculpts for anything to be released retail then that means characters like Janine, terror dogs will never be available for those who missed the KS. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that...
I honestly feel like I am being lied to about the exclusives. It's hard to imagine them never making Gozer, the Terror Dogs, and the Grey Lady available outside of this KS. And I do think it is misleading if what they really mean is that these sculpts are exclusive or maybe even these sculpts in a certain color.
Manchu wrote: I honestly feel like I am being lied to about the exclusives. It's hard to imagine them never making Gozer, the Terror Dogs, and the Grey Lady available outside of this KS. And I do think it is misleading if what they really mean is that these sculpts are exclusive or maybe even these sculpts in a certain color.
Yeah that is the unfortunate part, they will never be made in any form, alternate sculpt or color.
The characters exclusive to this campaign, in any form, will only be available through Kickstarter.
-Mataio Wilson
I'm trying to be polite but the only reason to do that is because this is a one print run type of thing. Print off 100,000 or however many copies they get for $250K and that is it, they won't do a second printing or release anything else. It essentially says there will be no further support or release of any future products, just this game by itself. Most of their games are like that but I was hoping this might be an actual franchise where they'd have and update new stories and ghosts, expansions eventually. Given the current answers and plans it does not look like that and unfortunately just makes the whole thing feel like a complete cash grab (especially given the high stretch goal amounts). I'm torn because the game was fun to play, for what we've tested here in the play group and I like Ghostbusters and was hoping to see more. I however also have some friends who I know can't back the KS for various reasons, most likely they'll never get into the game because they can't ever get a Janine or other Ghostbuster sculpts. It also means onces the rules are out, more people will just get "not Ghostbusters". If this wasn't an IP and was just a KS Board Game, I could seriously see this backslide and probably the only thing that saves it is because it belongs to an existing known, loved IP.
On the plus side I guess its a good thing I've been testing rules using miniatures terrain instead of a game board to move this to a miniatures style game vs a board game.
Manchu wrote: CZE already hinted in the comments that they planned on doing another release, covering the second movie.
It wouldn't be something I'd want to support though if all we are getting is exclusives. I mean I love exclusives, I like getting something and I believe there should be some. I however don't believe that everything should be exclusives, especially some of the iconic pieces from the franchise. If they want to make a comic version exclusive but have a movie version retail, that is fine if there are alternates... but making them exclusives means those that didn't back will never see them. Impossible Mode for example is only a thing if you backed. There is no advanced mode for retail.
Zombicide as an example has a lot of exclusives. There is a good portion not available through retail if you didn't back. However core pieces of the franchise aren't removed at retail. You lose out on the card, some people proxy in other miniatures and print out cards. It didn't extremely hinder or alter game play where it made it a must have. I guess technically Ghostbusters doesn't either but just rubs me the wrong way when things like Janine wouldn't be available unless you backed. I guess I see so much potential for this game and it looks squandered. Conan may deliver late and they have Exclusives but they also have like 3-4 expansions and other things that lend and alter game play that will be available at Retail. It is an example of how big the franchise could be and it was run right. I'm not advocating running SG like Conan either and throw out free stuff, I'm just talking future usability.
Another point is that Guillotine Games releases any promo character cards online. That way you may not have the official model or printed card, but it doesn't keep you from using it in a game that you otherwise already paid for.
(edit: of course, I could have just tried actually reading the previous post which did in fact say exactly this. Gaah.)
After this last update, I gave up. I didn't even feel like they deserved my $1 any more.
Wait on the hellbeasts. Andy's currently remastering them in resin as part of his post-kickstarter work. They won't be available for a while, but I'm looking forward to seeing how smooth they are compared to the metal ones.
Remember this is a licenced product, and a 'one and done' approach may be all they were offered (or could afford)
from the IP owners point of view 'one and done' lets them pocket a bunch of cash now, and leaves the field clear to re-do everything when the new girls-only film comes out without any 'brand confusion' which could occur if a box game full of male ghost busters (and different ghosts?) is still on sale
Wondering how that would work , I mean if you shoot the "ghost" with the particle stream and it turned out to be Mr. Higgins the grumpy former employee do you win or lose the game . I guess it could spawn a new ghost on the board either way.
The Scooby gang would be great against hoaxes but really weak against real ghosts (no way to trap them, and a real risk of Scooby & shaggy dying of heart attacks)
The ghost busters would be ideal against real ghosts, but risk killing hoaxers and subsequently being arrested
The Scooby gang would be great against hoaxes but really weak against real ghosts (no way to trap them, and a real risk of Scooby & shaggy dying of heart attacks)
The ghost busters would be ideal against real ghosts, but risk killing hoaxers and subsequently being arrested
Make it happen
Definitely!
This sounds awesome!
And I'd buy it for significantly more than a dollar!
Videos are up. The Game Introduction Video is up but it isn't on youtube, it is a short intro and explanation of the pieces of the game. You currently have to view it on the update. The second video is done with a play tester group but is on youtube so can be linked here:
Still not happy about $50K Stretch Goals, they make no sense at this current time given what has been done. However I would at least like to unlock Kylie Griffin.
Grot 6 wrote: Are there any Copywrite or IP Ownership issues that are going to drop this off the KS map?
Really interested in the game, but I'm seeing a potential IP issue come up if they go for the movie remakes...
There are not going to be any IP issues. They did also say that there will most likely be a second game, which will be based I believe on the second movie. There aren't going to be any Prodos AVP issue delays. CZE main business are licensed IP so they have experience dealing with this process.
Grot 6 wrote: Are there any Copywrite or IP Ownership issues that are going to drop this off the KS map?
Wouldn't mind picking up a group of Crooked Dices Savage School Girls to add in here, along with Kolchack.
this is all official and licenced so it good to go
I'm far less certain about the Crooked Dice stuff (and indeed this happening makes it more likely the IP owner might suggest crooked dice stop), so get them sooner rather than later
The IP thing is why I ordered the Crooked Dice ones.
A while back Brother Vinni did some Mutons and Sectoids from X-Com.. and I was really lucky to have placed an order for those because within the week they had to remove them. I'm one of probably a very few people who got those. So.. yup.. usually if I see a quality miniature of an IP I like and it's pretty obvious they don't have official licensing.. I order as soon as I'm able.
In fact.. I just did the same with a huge Spider Tank from Ghost in the Shell out of Thailand. It's gotten good reviews, is scaled for 28mm.. and I'm pretty sure it's very very unofficial.
MLaw wrote: The IP thing is why I ordered the Crooked Dice ones.
A while back Brother Vinni did some Mutons and Sectoids from X-Com.. and I was really lucky to have placed an order for those because within the week they had to remove them. I'm one of probably a very few people who got those. So.. yup.. usually if I see a quality miniature of an IP I like and it's pretty obvious they don't have official licensing.. I order as soon as I'm able.
In fact.. I just did the same with a huge Spider Tank from Ghost in the Shell out of Thailand. It's gotten good reviews, is scaled for 28mm.. and I'm pretty sure it's very very unofficial.
This game is 100% licensed by Sony. They have 100% final say on EVERY single aspect of this game, from the models to the tile art to the rules. CZE has spent months going back and forth working with Sony and making changes Sony wants. It's not a fast process by any means(any proposed change, however small, has a 10 day response window). And compared to other licensors that is a pretty fast turnaround on approvals.
Sony knows what is in the pipeline for their IP in every aspect. They know every SG and addon for this game, any future games, the new movie, any future movies etc.
While I can't speak to how long this game will be in production(no one can really predict such things for any game, even the companies that make them), I can say with 100% certainty that this game isn't going to up and disappear overnight because Sony says so. CZE is already licensed with them to do trading cards, collectible figures and more. http://thegeekiary.com/trading-cards-and-more-cryptozoic-at-ny-toy-fair-2015/21478
I really don't understand your point..
I was talking about the Crooked Dice not-Ghostbusters.. not this. I am not going near this because IMO, it's an over-priced boardgame that's gaming the exclusive buzzword and milking the pre-order nature of Kickstarter on something they could've taken straight to retail.
I get that you have friends there.. but not everyone is going to be interested in this no matter how excited you are for it (and I can sympathize with that because of my recent posts on another kickstarter).
MLaw wrote: I really don't understand your point..
I was talking about the Crooked Dice not-Ghostbusters.. not this. I am not going near this because IMO, it's an over-priced boardgame that's gaming the exclusive buzzword and milking the pre-order nature of Kickstarter on something they could've taken straight to retail.
I get that you have friends there.. but not everyone is going to be interested in this no matter how excited you are for it (and I can sympathize with that because of my recent posts on another kickstarter).
My apologies, my reply was more aimed at Grot 6, quoted the wrong post. I didn't mean to imply you thought it was not licensed.
CZE isn't some majorly large company. The overhead with taking this game beyond sharpie foamboard concept is considerable, and using KS is exactly the right move and is what KS is made for:covering costs to see a product made at all. I backed the Secret Weapons Miniatures Tablescapes KS day one, even though the board design I wanted was one of the last ones unlocked, because regardless of if I got Rolling Fields, I wanted that table to exist(if mostly out of spite towards GW).
I tend to view KS's with few or no stretch goals as preorder machines more. Granted some times there are products that simply do not warrant any addons beyond the initial design.
Not every game is for everyone, and we all have our own reasons why we do or do not want a game. While I do have some vested interest in seeing CZE succeed, I'll readily admit that the Ghostbusters IP itself isn't something "important" to me or my gaming needs. But that's simply the nature of IP, and is in no way a reflection on the games design or playstyle.
I dunno.. it just bugs me when I see stretch goals that are obviously things that would've been in the game anyway. It's kinda like in Guardians of the Galaxy where Star Lord tells Yondu that normal people don't even think about eating people, let alone having them be grateful for it.. I feel like companies that are doing this with stretch goals are wanting us to be thankful they're adding something in that would've been there anyway.
I see an added bonus in new characters but I don't really see a lot of added bonuses from having new ghosts, unless we get some more Class 1 and 2 ghosts for merging interaction going on... which we haven't really.
Updated the OP with Updated Character Cards, Ghost Cards, Gameplay Videos and Stretch Goals. I will continue to update the thread. However I have dropped my pledge down to a minimum. There are too many things that I am currently not liking about how the campaign has been turning out. I'm still in because I'm a fan, which it does appear a good portion of the backers are so that is good. There are also a good portion of backers who are most likely planning on selling on EBay aftermarket. I like the game and I think it is fun, although I'll be modifying the existing rules to play on actual terrain and not a game board. We've had a lot of fun with the initial testing and I think that is the direction I'll be moving given the way the campaign is moving.
Lot's of Stretch Goals unlocked, at least they added some more Class 1 and 2 ghost options. I do like seeing that Walter Peck was added. 37 hours left remaining and it is at $1,152,034 currently. Although I'm fairly sure a good portion of backers are going to be going straight to Ebay since almost everything about this Kickstarter is just Kickstarter Exclusives that will never hit retail normally.
Boogaloo is coming up! And he’s a big one: a full 100mm! The Boogaloo Manifestations will still be a part of the game and this piece is not replacing any, it is Boogaloo himself with his own new Ghost Card!
I don't mind letting anyone piggy back, I'll send you a PM.
Unlocked.
At this point I feel like they ran out of Stretch Goals. I still wish they would create some more non-exclusive packs that would see retail light though... I'm still really disappointed that only the main box will hit retail.
It has been delivered. Some of the miniatures are great and others are meh. For a board game they are fairly on part with board game plastics. I have not had a chance to paint them up yet as I already have a full shelf at the moment. However there do have the ability to be painted really nicely as seen below.
These were painted by Tanks and Trolls. I actually like what this person did with the ghosts utilizing the blue clear plastic and enhancing with paint but overall leaving the look.
I'm not even sure who's Venkman and who's Ray.
, I mean if you shoot the "ghost" with the particle stream and it turned out to be Mr. Higgins the grumpy former employee do you win or lose the game 
. I guess it could spawn a new ghost on the board either way.
