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This is one half (the first) of my 40k projects for after the Ard Boyz.

The second half can be found here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/216697.page

Don't need Preferred Enemy because the Chap gives it to everyone I care about, and everyone and everything will die against the termie units first turn.

Oh the termies carjack the crusaders rides, who get to run behind and provide support (ok once the termies jump out, the crusaders will probably jump in to score or save their KP's).

The last crusader squad sits in the LR and scores my objective. Yay for them.

I like S10 Thunder Hammers and S6 Lightning Claws.

==================================================

1850 Pts - Black Templars Roster - Suffer Not

1 Emperor's Champion @ 125 Pts
Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol; The Black Sword; Crusader Seals; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 The Black Sword @ [0] Pts
1 Armor of Faith @ [0] Pts
1 Crusader Seals @ [0] Pts
1 Reclusiarch @ 96 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Crozius Arcanum; Crusader Seals; Rosarius; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Crusader Seals @ [0] Pts
1 Rosarius @ [0] Pts
5 Sword Brethren Assault Terminators @ 215 Pts
Lightning Claws (pair) (x4); Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield (x1); Furious Charge; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live

1 Reclusiarch @ 96 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Crozius Arcanum; Crusader Seals; Rosarius; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Crusader Seals @ [0] Pts
1 Rosarius @ [0] Pts
6 Sword Brethren Assault Terminators @ 258 Pts
Lightning Claws (pair) (x5); Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield (x1); Furious Charge; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live

5 Crusader Squad @ 365 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close Combat Weapon (x3); Meltagun; Power Weapon; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Land Raider Crusader @ [265] Pts
Multi-Melta; Twin Linked Assault Cannon; Hurricane Bolters (x2); Extra Armor; Power of the Machine Spirit

5 Crusader Squad @ 365 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close Combat Weapon (x3); Meltagun; Power Weapon; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Land Raider Crusader @ [265] Pts
Multi-Melta; Twin Linked Assault Cannon; Hurricane Bolters (x2); Extra Armor; Power of the Machine Spirit

1 Land Raider @ 250 Pts
Twin Linked Heavy Bolter; Twin Linked Lascannon (x2); Power of the Machine Spirit

5 Crusader Squad @ 80 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x5); Close Combat Weapon (x5); Suffer Not The Unclean To Live

Total Roster Cost: 1850

Those S6 lightning claws will be absolutely brutal.

wow......


20 Attacks @ Strength 6 Initiative 4. Re-rolling everything and ignoring armor saves.

Wow.

The +1S bonus cannot be cumulated with Furious charge.

Please read page24 of the Codex before "WoW".

Awww sad day, only S5. lol

See, this is why these are test lists.

Man, learned something from Dakka.

Look out carpet here I come!

Not bad, Stelek. I never was taken with mechanized Templars, but this doesn't look half bad.

I would worry about with this list is its small model count. Granted, having 3 Land Raiders is absolutely nasty, and will definitely scare plenty of opponents, but having only 27 models is bad - especially for a Black Templar army.

The 15 scoring models are poor contenders for objective missions. Capture and Control will be damned hard, especially if there are more than 3 objectives, as it will require you to divide and conquer (which is hard to do with the list you've built).

Seize the Objective will be pretty easy, as you'll be able to rush your enemy's position with 3 Land Raiders full of Terminators, a Chaplain and the Emperor's Champion (it's too bad Suffer Not and Furious Charge don't stack - having a 125 point Emperor's Champion with 4 WS6, Init6, Str8 attacks on the charge would be glorious).

Kill points would be pretty good for this list. 10 KPs for 1850 is pretty solid, especially for an army that tends to have a lot of units.

I think I like your Drop Pod version better. I played around with that style for a little bit - I'll talk more about it when I post in the respective thread.

CK

Well I'm not sure which version I'm going to build yet.

I'd like to get shooty termies and raiders going, but they're each over 200 points so it doesn't seem that workable.

I don't think I'm as worried about objectives as you are.

I only need to control one, and contest the others. All of my armies have this as their basis.

If GW puts stupidity into their tournaments as I expect them to, and force players to control all objectives in order to score--well, I think it'll kill the game because then you'll have to beat 180 model count armies with 60 marines, and truth is you won't. But GW is well known for epic failures of this kind, so I'm well prepared for a retreat from their game system to a different one.

Since you can't combine the vow, you can take a different vow now if you want, like "preferred enemy" and lead the termies with Castellans with Lightning Claws as well if you want.

I suppose. Kind of a shame really. I prefer the other list really. Makes DW cry. lol

I've mostly been playing objective missions, so I kind of worry when my opponent has twice as many units as me.

CK

Stelek wrote:I suppose. Kind of a shame really. I prefer the other list really. Makes DW cry. lol

Stelek, everything makes DW cry. Baby Jesus makes DW cry.

Replying/commenting to things in orange, in the quote box. Tell me how it looks, ect. Also, Ard Boyz is 2500p. Why is this list 1850p?

Stelek wrote:This is one half (the first) of my 40k projects for after the Ard Boyz.

The second half can be found here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/216697.page

Don't need Preferred Enemy because the Chap gives it to everyone I care about, and everyone and everything will die against the termie units first turn.

Oh the termies carjack the crusaders rides, who get to run behind and provide support (ok once the termies jump out, the crusaders will probably jump in to score or save their KP's).

The last crusader squad sits in the LR and scores my objective. Yay for them.

I like S10 Thunder Hammers and S6 Lightning Claws.

==================================================

1850 Pts - Black Templars Roster - Suffer Not

1 Emperor's Champion @ 125 Pts
Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol; The Black Sword; Crusader Seals; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 The Black Sword @ [0] Pts
1 Armor of Faith @ [0] Pts
1 Crusader Seals @ [0] Pts
1 Reclusiarch @ 96 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Crozius Arcanum; Crusader Seals; Rosarius; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Crusader Seals @ [0] Pts
1 Rosarius @ [0] Pts
5 Sword Brethren Assault Terminators @ 215 Pts
Lightning Claws (pair) (x4); Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield (x1); Furious Charge; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live

1 Reclusiarch @ 96 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Crozius Arcanum; Crusader Seals; Rosarius; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Crusader Seals @ [0] Pts
1 Rosarius @ [0] Pts
6 Sword Brethren Assault Terminators @ 258 Pts
Lightning Claws (pair) (x5); Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield (x1); Furious Charge; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live

5 Crusader Squad @ 365 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close Combat Weapon (x3); Meltagun; Power Weapon; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Land Raider Crusader @ [265] Pts
Multi-Melta; Twin Linked Assault Cannon; Hurricane Bolters (x2); Extra Armor; Power of the Machine Spirit

5 Crusader Squad @ 365 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close Combat Weapon (x3); Meltagun; Power Weapon; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Land Raider Crusader @ [265] Pts
Multi-Melta; Twin Linked Assault Cannon; Hurricane Bolters (x2); Extra Armor; Power of the Machine Spirit

1 Land Raider @ 250 Pts
Twin Linked Heavy Bolter; Twin Linked Lascannon (x2); Power of the Machine Spirit

5 Crusader Squad @ 80 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x5); Close Combat Weapon (x5); Suffer Not The Unclean To Live

Total Roster Cost: 1850

The main problem I see with this list is two-fold. A. Lack of scoring units, at least big ones. Sure, I can get by on 2x massive squads, but I still outclass 15 marines total, with one squad.

B. You are I3 termies. Enjoy getting eaten alive by almost anything in combat. Each kill against you decreases your ability to kill by a lot. Enjoy your fail. My 15 man initiate squads, costing much less, would win in combat. Not to mention how much you will be eaten alive in close combat by stealers/Banshees/Scorpains/Harlies/Honor Guard/Vet squads with power weapons/Wraiths or Cron Lords/Almost all IC's/Most Chaos Units+Lords. So, most assault units. As I said, enjoy that fail.

Corpsman_of_Krieg wrote:Not bad, Stelek. I never was taken with mechanized Templars, but this doesn't look half bad.

I would worry about with this list is its small model count. Granted, having 3 Land Raiders is absolutely nasty, and will definitely scare plenty of opponents, but having only 27 models is bad - especially for a Black Templar army.

Indeed. In my smallest lists of this points limit, I have at least 30 inf. Two large squads can score much better.

The 15 scoring models are poor contenders for objective missions. Capture and Control will be damned hard, especially if there are more than 3 objectives, as it will require you to divide and conquer (which is hard to do with the list you've built).

I must defend Stelek here. I have yet to lose an objective mission in a mech list of this basic kind(LRC rush based). It's not really a problem. I generally have both main squads around to still score. Even in 5 objective games at 2500p, I have yet to not be able to eat whole armies and still have two out of two scoring units. True, 5 man will be much easier to eat, but I don't think objectives will be that big of a problem.

Seize the Objective will be pretty easy, as you'll be able to rush your enemy's position with 3 Land Raiders full of Terminators, a Chaplain and the Emperor's Champion (it's too bad Suffer Not and Furious Charge don't stack - having a 125 point Emperor's Champion with 4 WS6, Init6, Str8 attacks on the charge would be glorious).

Even if they did stack that is impossible. There is no legal way to give the Emperors Champ Furious Charge. Read your rules, ect.

Kill points would be pretty good for this list. 10 KPs for 1850 is pretty solid, especially for an army that tends to have a lot of units.

I think I like your Drop Pod version better. I played around with that style for a little bit - I'll talk more about it when I post in the respective thread.

CK

Stelek wrote:Well I'm not sure which version I'm going to build yet.

I'd like to get shooty termies and raiders going, but they're each over 200 points so it doesn't seem that workable.

I don't think I'm as worried about objectives as you are.

I only need to control one, and contest the others. All of my armies have this as their basis.

If GW puts stupidity into their tournaments as I expect them to, and force players to control all objectives in order to score--well, I think it'll kill the game because then you'll have to beat 180 model count armies with 60 marines, and truth is you won't. But GW is well known for epic failures of this kind, so I'm well prepared for a retreat from their game system to a different one.

They already have set rules. They aren't changing them for tourneys. You only need to control more then your opponent, not that hard in LR/LRC mech rush. Not hard at all. You are fine as far as objectives go.

Hotsoup, replying to you is like chewing gravel.

The main problem I see with this list is two-fold. A. Lack of scoring units, at least big ones. Sure, I can get by on 2x massive squads, but I still outclass 15 marines total, with one squad.

B. You are I3 termies. Enjoy getting eaten alive by almost anything in combat. Each kill against you decreases your ability to kill by a lot. Enjoy your fail. My 15 man initiate squads, costing much less, would win in combat. Not to mention how much you will be eaten alive in close combat by stealers/Banshees/Scorpains/Harlies/Honor Guard/Vet squads with power weapons/Wraiths or Cron Lords/Almost all IC's/Most Chaos Units+Lords. So, most assault units. As I said, enjoy that fail.

You really show an astounding grasp of 40k 5th edition.

Land Raiders don't die to much. You have to (HAVE TO) kill them to kill this army and stop it contesting.

I wonder if you noticed the I bonus from furious charge, which does stack. Guess that invalidates the rest of what you said. Oh, and the fact that you are including I5 guys and Necron lords (wtf?!) in your analysis just makes me wonder what game you are playing.

You DO realize an assault force like this is:

A) Fun
B) Easily defeated with tactics
C) All eggs in one basket syndrome
D) It's 1850 because this isn't a ard boyz list, see I'm making this list for AFTER the ard boyz. Hurr.

Yes, someone already pointed out the furious charge. I am pretty sure I mentioned these are test builds, since I don't actually HAVE the figs yet.

As far as the GRAND TOURNAMENTS go, that's the tournament I was referring to, in what one needs to control more objectives to get more 'points'. See, they don't have set rules yet and until you see the scenarios day of, you won't know either. Same thing with the ard boyz, not that I consider it a tournament in the same sense as a GT.

You always only need to control more than your opponent in a friendly game, which this list is designed for (mostly against a buddies GKT land raider rush list).

And tournament games.

And pretty much any game where your number of controlled objectives doesn't relate to your overall score in the tournament, which is something I expect GW to do.

Finally, do we speak the same language?

Stelek wrote:Hotsoup, replying to you is like chewing gravel.

The main problem I see with this list is two-fold. A. Lack of scoring units, at least big ones. Sure, I can get by on 2x massive squads, but I still outclass 15 marines total, with one squad.

B. You are I3 termies. Enjoy getting eaten alive by almost anything in combat. Each kill against you decreases your ability to kill by a lot. Enjoy your fail. My 15 man initiate squads, costing much less, would win in combat. Not to mention how much you will be eaten alive in close combat by stealers/Banshees/Scorpains/Harlies/Honor Guard/Vet squads with power weapons/Wraiths or Cron Lords/Almost all IC's/Most Chaos Units+Lords. So, most assault units. As I said, enjoy that fail.

You really show an astounding grasp of 40k 5th edition.

Land Raiders don't die to much. You have to (HAVE TO) kill them to kill this army and stop it contesting.

I know. It is hard to kill. My lists are based on LRC's, don't you think I would know this? Still, I dislike putting so little guys in a squad. Its just not... BTish.

I wonder if you noticed the I bonus from furious charge, which does stack. Guess that invalidates the rest of what you said. Oh, and the fact that you are including I5 guys and Necron lords (wtf?!) in your analysis just makes me wonder what game you are playing.

I did notice that. Since normal terminators are not THAT likely to always get a charge, I cannot exactly count that as much. True, your first charge will eat non I5 things, you will still be eaten by the counter charges that can and should come.

Its a god-assault squad, I am simply pairing it with other god assault squads. Most of them can get the charge easily enough, and cost less points/the same. And have I5

You DO realize an assault force like this is:

A) Fun
B) Easily defeated with tactics
C) All eggs in one basket syndrome
D) It's 1850 because this isn't a ard boyz list, see I'm making this list for AFTER the ard boyz. Hurr.

Okay, you have me there. Did NOT see that. Sorry. Didn't think you were trying to run a fun list. I generally see "THIS IS A FUN LIST" in bold on forums, because forums will try to improve it against the power-gaming level.

Yes, someone already pointed out the furious charge. I am pretty sure I mentioned these are test builds, since I don't actually HAVE the figs yet.

As far as the GRAND TOURNAMENTS go, that's the tournament I was referring to, in what one needs to control more objectives to get more 'points'. See, they don't have set rules yet and until you see the scenarios day of, you won't know either. Same thing with the ard boyz, not that I consider it a tournament in the same sense as a GT.

True, true. I concede that point to you my good sir.

You always only need to control more than your opponent in a friendly game, which this list is designed for (mostly against a buddies GKT land raider rush list).

And tournament games.

And pretty much any game where your number of controlled objectives doesn't relate to your overall score in the tournament, which is something I expect GW to do.

Finally, do we speak the same language?

Its a god-assault squad, I am simply pairing it with other god assault squads. Most of them can get the charge easily enough, and cost less points/the same. And have I5

Termies out of a land raider have one of the longest charge ranges in the game.

It's not meant to beat experienced players.

I *have* to run less-hard core lists at my FLGS so people feel like they can win. It's difficult to get games when you win with 1250 versus 2000, k?

Stelek wrote:

Its a god-assault squad, I am simply pairing it with other god assault squads. Most of them can get the charge easily enough, and cost less points/the same. And have I5

Termies out of a land raider have one of the longest charge ranges in the game.

Indeed. Which can be used effectively... Once. It's great, yes, very good. But after the initial charge, if you haven't eaten his main shooty or assaulty, expect to be eaten alive. Though, as you said, it is a fun list, so I will stop here, ect.

It's not meant to beat experienced players.

I *have* to run less-hard core lists at my FLGS so people feel like they can win. It's difficult to get games when you win with 1250 versus 2000, k?

Again, you could have SAID that. My experience on 40k forums/boards, with you as well, is that if it sucks, point out all flaws, make it a insanely good list, ect. If you do not want that treatment, people generally post so as a warning that it is a for fun/not to be made to eat all list. You cannot hit me for ignorance of your intentions if you do not tell me those intentions.

I don't mind pointing out the flaws. I posted those earlier than I planned to (as a whim for another user) but while I consider the Black Templar a strong list, I still think termies are weaksauce. In 6 months, they'll be stronger once people modify their armies to deal with lots and lots of guys.

However I'm getting 6 boxes of Black Reach, and I'll be making several marine armies out of the whole kit. Shooty Black Templar seem the best use of the termies outta that set. The regular marines will go into my first loyalist marine chapter (out of the new book). Ever. Yes really.

My SW are just subbing in as LOTD while my Legion of the Damned is nerfed to nothing temporarily.

Telling someone there's a flaw is one thing.

After they tell you it's uber, that's when it's ok to bust out the big old 'you fail' crap. Most people post on dakka to get ridiculed, I was posting to help someone else out.

Hopefully you see the difference in the viewpoints.

Stelek wrote:I don't mind pointing out the flaws. I posted those earlier than I planned to (as a whim for another user) but while I consider the Black Templar a strong list, I still think termies are weaksauce. In 6 months, they'll be stronger once people modify their armies to deal with lots and lots of guys.

However I'm getting 6 boxes of Black Reach, and I'll be making several marine armies out of the whole kit. Shooty Black Templar seem the best use of the termies outta that set. The regular marines will go into my first loyalist marine chapter (out of the new book). Ever. Yes really.

Sounds like fun. Hope that goes well, really I do. I must ask, whats the "Ever. Yes Really". I can't see where that fits into things.

My SW are just subbing in as LOTD while my Legion of the Damned is nerfed to nothing temporarily.

Telling someone there's a flaw is one thing.

After they tell you it's uber, that's when it's ok to bust out the big old 'you fail' crap. Most people post on dakka to get ridiculed, I was posting to help someone else out.


Sorry, since your sig and your life on dakka seems to be "I powergame", then I assumed you felt whatever you posted was uber. You could have warned me this list was one where you felt like not powergaming.

Also, I love how you say BT Shooting is awesome, BT CC is crap, and then say that your BT shooty is a for fun list that isn't supposed to win against experienced players.

Hopefully you see the difference in the viewpoints.

I do, I just wish you could have told me that you were doing a for fun list instead of your usual powergamy stuff. Would have saved both of us a lot of time. As it is, I apologize wasting your time with comments on a for fun list. I also admit some of what I said today on the three BT threads was out of line, I apologize for that as well.