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This is the other half of my 40k projects for after the Ard Boyz.

The first half can be found here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/216696.page

What can I say, I don't care about preferred enemy with this list...if you get to me, either you are very tough or I'm about to get crushed. lol

It's nice to have tank hunters and +1 str so I can hit most vehicles with autopens and land raiders better just stay away.

Since I'm I1 anyway I'll just fist everything to death and not mind missing. Against regular troops it's not as good, but I'm not worried about regular troops with this army.

The crusader squads are there to (hopefully!) never drop in but if they do they go 1, 2 objectives. lol In KP missions they can go flame something the terminators can't be bothered with.

==========================================

1850 Pts - Black Templars Roster - Suffer Not - Foot

1 Reclusiarch @ 360 Pts
Crozius Arcanum; Storm Bolter; Tank Hunters; Crusader Seals; Rosarius; Cenobyte Servitors; Terminator Command Squad; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Crusader Seals @ [0] Pts
1 Rosarius @ [0] Pts
1 Terminator Armor @ [25] Pts
2 Cenobyte Servitors @ [20] Pts
Close Combat Weapon; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
3 Terminator Command Squad @ [212] Pts
Power Fist (x3); Storm Bolter (x1); Assault Cannon (x2); Tank Hunters; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Sergeant @ [43] Pts
Power Weapon (x1); Storm Bolter; Tank Hunters; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live

1 Reclusiarch @ 360 Pts
Crozius Arcanum; Storm Bolter; Tank Hunters; Crusader Seals; Rosarius; Cenobyte Servitors; Terminator Command Squad; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Crusader Seals @ [0] Pts
1 Rosarius @ [0] Pts
1 Terminator Armor @ [25] Pts
2 Cenobyte Servitors @ [20] Pts
Close Combat Weapon; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
3 Terminator Command Squad @ [212] Pts
Power Fist (x3); Storm Bolter (x1); Assault Cannon (x2); Tank Hunters; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Sergeant @ [43] Pts
Power Weapon (x1); Storm Bolter; Tank Hunters; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live

1 Emperor's Champion @ 125 Pts
Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol; The Black Sword; Crusader Seals; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 The Black Sword @ [0] Pts
1 Armor of Faith @ [0] Pts
1 Crusader Seals @ [0] Pts

5 Sword Brethren Terminators @ 260 Pts
Power Fist (x4); Storm Bolter (x3); Chain Fist (x1); Assault Cannon (x2); Tank Hunters; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live

5 Sword Brethren Terminators @ 255 Pts
Power Fist (x5); Storm Bolter (x3); Assault Cannon (x2); Tank Hunters; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live

5 Sword Brethren Terminators @ 255 Pts
Power Fist (x5); Storm Bolter (x3); Assault Cannon (x2); Tank Hunters; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live

5 Crusader Squad @ 116 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close Combat Weapon (x4); Flamer; Drop Pod; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Drop Pod @ [30] Pts
Storm Bolter; Inertial Guidance System

5 Crusader Squad @ 116 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close Combat Weapon (x4); Flamer; Drop Pod; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Drop Pod @ [30] Pts
Storm Bolter; Inertial Guidance System

Total Roster Cost: 1847

S9 and tankhunter is transparently enough to fist down any vehicles.They are enough,sure.

But i wonder what is your way to catch enemy vehicles.

It's only for people who like to tank shock me off objectives. I don't have land raiders to block them like the other list does.

When facing infantry,S8 and S9 exactly make no differences.

But with and without re-rolls would.

Do we call this Stelekwing?

On topic, I actually really like it. I like the ability to just plop stuff down on top of objectives and all of the s10 (vs. vehicles) power fists seem like as good a way as any that I've seen to deal with all the armor value 14 that has been popping up lately.

Also I think that all of those 2+ armor saves will really shine now that a lot of people seem to be moving away from las/plas (or other AP. 2 weapons) and towards high volume of fire poor AP weapons. I might have to scrape together some terminators and give this a whirl.

@ tokugawa: Actually I'm more worried about vehicles than I am about basic infantry. I can torrent of fire those dead.

@tomguycot: Sure! lol That is the idea, crush any tank that tries to get up in my face. S9 helps against only a few units in the game as far as infantry goes, but tanks won't like it one bit. I agree that 2+ saves will shine once the transformation of 4E to 5E is complete.

To Stelek:

assault cannons is effective but not enough against horde.It can take 1.5boy(Why i use ork as example again?-_- I surppose they take KFF as their save) down in a turn for average.Maybe to replace some asc with skorcha would be more flexible.

That's why I have 5 termie units. I can shoot enough to kill a boyz squad down and that's all I need to do really.

My initial thought was that this would fail epically. It has a very low model count, has only 10 scoring models, and has only short-ranged weaponry.

Then I thought back on my recent experiences with my Deathwing. In short, I realized this list will tear up most enemy armies.

Having 10 Assault Cannons is a strength, but the 10 scoring models will be a weakness that requires a change in battle plan to accommodate.

I disagree with your style of diminishing Troops choices - I believe Templars are most effective when they can make the bulk of their fighting strength out of their Crusader Squads. The humble Initiate can make people sweat when in groups of 75 or more.

However, I don't doubt your ability to make those 10 models work the way you want them to. It just doesn't leave a lot of room for mistakes - your opponent moves into a LOS arc with those Initiates in it, and you're likely to be in a bad situation in 2 out of 3 of the game types.

I want to point out however that it is questionable as to whether or not Black Templar Chaplains may take Cenobyte Servitors if equipped with Terminator Armor. As the option of taking them comes both from the Armory and the unit entry, it is technically allowable, but I would be wary of the opponent who raises a stink because you're fielding Cenobytes in Terminator squads.

On the plus side, it is absolutely disgusting when your opponent drops one Terminator and you roll a 6 with 3 Cenobytes. I had an 8-man Assault Terminator Squad move 27" in one turn after Grimaldus joined them the turn before (after 9" Zeal, 6" move, 6" Assault, 6" Consolidate, of course).

Anyway, between Tank Hunters and Rending, I believe this list will eat through both infantry and tank alike. Aside from the Monolith, you needn't worry about ranged firepower.

I toyed around with a similar design about a year ago, but abandoned it for Deathwing and Horde Templars. It's still very good though - I'd like to hear about any games you play with this list.

CK

Hmmm technically allowable = allowed.

Cenobytes are very broken as you've noted.

I expect the Monolith to be just another Land Raider when time comes for the Necrons to be revamped.

If I wanted to run a bunch of marines, honestly I wouldn't run templars.

I'd run Chaos or Space Wolves. Oh wait, I do!

When I get the BR boxes I'll be making this army first, then I'll test it some.

Again, posting responses in orange below text I am responding to. Also, Ard Boyz is 2500p. Are you intending on playing 1850p in a 2500p tourney?

Also, responding to multiple posts, Cerobyte servitors may NOT be taken by models with terminator armor. It says in the wargear rules that only upgrades marked by a T can be taken by a model wearing terminator armor. Note how Cerobyte Servitors are not one of those.

Please tell me how the playtesting goes, I must say I am very interested to see how this does. I want to see how well the 25 terminators make up for the lack of scoring units, ect.

Stelek wrote:This is the other half of my 40k projects for after the Ard Boyz.

The first half can be found here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/216696.page

What can I say, I don't care about preferred enemy with this list...if you get to me, either you are very tough or I'm about to get crushed. lol

It's nice to have tank hunters and +1 str so I can hit most vehicles with autopens and land raiders better just stay away.

Since I'm I1 anyway I'll just fist everything to death and not mind missing. Against regular troops it's not as good, but I'm not worried about regular troops with this army.

The crusader squads are there to (hopefully!) never drop in but if they do they go 1, 2 objectives. lol In KP missions they can go flame something the terminators can't be bothered with.

==========================================

1850 Pts - Black Templars Roster - Suffer Not - Foot

1 Reclusiarch @ 360 Pts
Crozius Arcanum; Storm Bolter; Tank Hunters; Crusader Seals; Rosarius; Cenobyte Servitors; Terminator Command Squad; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Crusader Seals @ [0] Pts
1 Rosarius @ [0] Pts
1 Terminator Armor @ [25] Pts
2 Cenobyte Servitors @ [20] Pts
Close Combat Weapon; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
3 Terminator Command Squad @ [212] Pts
Power Fist (x3); Storm Bolter (x1); Assault Cannon (x2); Tank Hunters; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Sergeant @ [43] Pts
Power Weapon (x1); Storm Bolter; Tank Hunters; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live

1 Reclusiarch @ 360 Pts
Crozius Arcanum; Storm Bolter; Tank Hunters; Crusader Seals; Rosarius; Cenobyte Servitors; Terminator Command Squad; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Crusader Seals @ [0] Pts
1 Rosarius @ [0] Pts
1 Terminator Armor @ [25] Pts
2 Cenobyte Servitors @ [20] Pts
Close Combat Weapon; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
3 Terminator Command Squad @ [212] Pts
Power Fist (x3); Storm Bolter (x1); Assault Cannon (x2); Tank Hunters; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Sergeant @ [43] Pts
Power Weapon (x1); Storm Bolter; Tank Hunters; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live

1 Emperor's Champion @ 125 Pts
Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol; The Black Sword; Crusader Seals; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 The Black Sword @ [0] Pts
1 Armor of Faith @ [0] Pts
1 Crusader Seals @ [0] Pts

5 Sword Brethren Terminators @ 260 Pts
Power Fist (x4); Storm Bolter (x3); Chain Fist (x1); Assault Cannon (x2); Tank Hunters; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live

5 Sword Brethren Terminators @ 255 Pts
Power Fist (x5); Storm Bolter (x3); Assault Cannon (x2); Tank Hunters; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live

5 Sword Brethren Terminators @ 255 Pts
Power Fist (x5); Storm Bolter (x3); Assault Cannon (x2); Tank Hunters; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live

5 Crusader Squad @ 116 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close Combat Weapon (x4); Flamer; Drop Pod; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Drop Pod @ [30] Pts
Storm Bolter; Inertial Guidance System

5 Crusader Squad @ 116 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x4); Close Combat Weapon (x4); Flamer; Drop Pod; Suffer Not The Unclean To Live
1 Drop Pod @ [30] Pts
Storm Bolter; Inertial Guidance System

Total Roster Cost: 1847

Far to few scoring units. Unlike the other list, they cannot sit in the safety of the vehicle. A decent enemy will kill them, then defend one objective. He wins. Enjoy that fail.

Still, it must be said, it would be brutal to play against. It would be a hard fight, but I think its hardly unbeatable. It just has too little scoring units. Mabye with some editing, bigger/more squads, it could work. But as it is, too few scoring models. Shouldn't be to hard, you get 650p to play with by making this a real Ard Boyz list.

tomguycot wrote:Do we call this Stelekwing?

Yea, sure, Stelekwing. Doesn't matter something insanely similar to this was posted on the B&C a while ago. No, totally Stelekwing. Hes definitely the first. Not the guy on the B&C at least two months ago, no. /sarcasm.

On topic, I actually really like it. I like the ability to just plop stuff down on top of objectives and all of the s10 (vs. vehicles) power fists seem like as good a way as any that I've seen to deal with all the armor value 14 that has been popping up lately.

Yea, I think it has a lot of shooting power. I think it would be a rather hard list to face. But, the lack of scoring units makes it easy to cripple. Skimmer armies can just move circles around the termies if they don't kill them right when they come down, for instance.

Also I think that all of those 2+ armor saves will really shine now that a lot of people seem to be moving away from las/plas (or other AP. 2 weapons) and towards high volume of fire poor AP weapons. I might have to scrape together some terminators and give this a whirl.

Too bad his main problem is the 10 3+ save guys, not the 25 2+ save guys. Still, 25 termies will be insanely nasty.

Corpsman_of_Krieg wrote:My initial thought was that this would fail epically. It has a very low model count, has only 10 scoring models, and has only short-ranged weaponry.

Then I thought back on my recent experiences with my Deathwing. In short, I realized this list will tear up most enemy armies.

The thing with death wing is that they can take 31 2+ Armor/5+ invul save terminators as troop(scoring) units. Stelek's list is stuck with 10 3+ Armor no invul models. Much easier to stop from scoring

Having 10 Assault Cannons is a strength, but the 10 scoring models will be a weakness that requires a change in battle plan to accommodate.

I disagree with your style of diminishing Troops choices - I believe Templars are most effective when they can make the bulk of their fighting strength out of their Crusader Squads. The humble Initiate can make people sweat when in groups of 75 or more.

Very, very true. Low man count templar never win. If you don't have at LEAST more scoring models then there are multiples of 100p in your armies, you are doing something terribly, terribly, terribly wrong.

However, I don't doubt your ability to make those 10 models work the way you want them to. It just doesn't leave a lot of room for mistakes - your opponent moves into a LOS arc with those Initiates in it, and you're likely to be in a bad situation in 2 out of 3 of the game types.

Indeed, those small squads mean they will pretty much die as soon as they deep strike. Then your enemy can just fall back and shoot the living crap out of you.

I want to point out however that it is questionable as to whether or not Black Templar Chaplains may take Cenobyte Servitors if equipped with Terminator Armor. As the option of taking them comes both from the Armory and the unit entry, it is technically allowable, but I would be wary of the opponent who raises a stink because you're fielding Cenobytes in Terminator squads.

They cannot, as it is not marked with a T on the wargear page. READ YOUR RULES.

On the plus side, it is absolutely disgusting when your opponent drops one Terminator and you roll a 6 with 3 Cenobytes. I had an 8-man Assault Terminator Squad move 27" in one turn after Grimaldus joined them the turn before (after 9" Zeal, 6" move, 6" Assault, 6" Consolidate, of course).

Anyway, between Tank Hunters and Rending, I believe this list will eat through both infantry and tank alike. Aside from the Monolith, you needn't worry about ranged firepower.

I toyed around with a similar design about a year ago, but abandoned it for Deathwing and Horde Templars. It's still very good though - I'd like to hear about any games you play with this list.

CK

Stelek wrote:Hmmm technically allowable = allowed.

Cenobytes are very broken as you've noted.

They are not "technically" allowed. They are not a legal choice for a model in termy armor. Models in terminator armor can only select upgrades marked with a T on the wargear list. Cerobyte servitors are not. Read your rules.

I expect the Monolith to be just another Land Raider when time comes for the Necrons to be revamped.

If I wanted to run a bunch of marines, honestly I wouldn't run templars.

Odd, how I find it does better then SW and just as well as chaos. Ah well, to each his own. I'll admit, SW and Chaos can do it very nastily.

I'd run Chaos or Space Wolves. Oh wait, I do!



When I get the BR boxes I'll be making this army first, then I'll test it some.

I posted this list about a year ago, when BT first came out.

Without the cenobyte servitors. I posted on the AB forum that AB allowed it and I didn't think it did. But thanks for telling me to read the rules AND telling me I stole something from bull&crap.

FWIW, I don't read or visit other 40k sites (and I'm not allowed to say why) except to pick out stupid threads to put on my blog.

Indeed, those small squads mean they will pretty much die as soon as they deep strike. Then your enemy can just fall back and shoot the living crap out of you.

They will? Gee, you have the tactical acumen of a well I don't know...nothing I can really say here on dakka. lol

See, I deep strike by my objective. I get out where you can't see me. I take my objective.

Now you tell me how you've bypassed the terminators in front of the army and you just kill them and win!

I'm not sure I get it--how do people fall back from terminators after they shot my tactical squads (which they can't see) dead? How's that work again?

SW are old, very old...and can still matchup with templar run like orks. They tend to relish getting to rapid fire you and then assault you. Maybe if I put 'read the rules' in bold I'll be just as insightful as you.

Like I said before, replying to you is like chewing gravel.

Stelek wrote:I posted this list about a year ago, when BT first came out.

Without the cenobyte servitors. I posted on the AB forum that AB allowed it and I didn't think it did. But thanks for telling me to read the rules AND telling me I stole something from bull&crap.

FWIW, I don't read or visit other 40k sites (and I'm not allowed to say why) except to pick out stupid threads to put on my blog.

Sorry, I was unaware. I was also out of line. Very out of line. Please forgive me. Though, it does not allow Cerobytes(The codex). AB is wrong, ect. Also, missed the "after Ard Boyz" thing in here as well, forgive me for that too, if you could.

Indeed, those small squads mean they will pretty much die as soon as they deep strike. Then your enemy can just fall back and shoot the living crap out of you.

They will? Gee, you have the tactical acumen of a well I don't know...nothing I can really say here on dakka. lol

Eldar/Tau can do it insanely easily. Move right next to you with a firewarrior/dire avenger squad and say good-bye to that squad. True, most other armies will have a harder time, but it is not THAT hard. Units in LR's, as your other list goes, are much safer.

See, I deep strike by my objective. I get out where you can't see me. I take my objective.

Now you tell me how you've bypassed the terminators in front of the army and you just kill them and win!

I'm not sure I get it--how do people fall back from terminators after they shot my tactical squads (which they can't see) dead? How's that work again?

Suicide units, ect. Keep the main army back. It doesn't take THAT much to kill 10 marines. True, I was unclear on that. I give you the point, ect.

SW are old, very old...and can still matchup with templar run like orks. They tend to relish getting to rapid fire you and then assault you. Maybe if I put 'read the rules' in bold I'll be just as insightful as you.

I didn't put in bold =/. But I see your point. Sorry, ect.

Like I said before, replying to you is like chewing gravel.

Eldar can, Tau can't (they're slow man). What are the Eldar doing while waiting for my troops choices to arrive? I hope they are killing my army, or at least not ignoring it. lol

Running suicide units = bad for KP missions. I don't know about you but I don't wanna lose because that 5 man melta squad got smoked by 2 storm bolters from drop pods. lol

Stelek wrote:Eldar can, Tau can't (they're slow man). What are the Eldar doing while waiting for my troops choices to arrive? I hope they are killing my army, or at least not ignoring it. lol

Positioning those Falcons/Wave Serpants for a good swoop of win while hitting they terminators with the rest of their shooting? Just maybe?

Also, tau skimmers are skimmers. Skimmers are Fast. They also have a 4+ cover saved most of the time, which is a good thing. And their shooting will do well against terminators, long range, ect.

Running suicide units = bad for KP missions. I don't know about you but I don't wanna lose because that 5 man melta squad got smoked by 2 storm bolters from drop pods. lol

I would doubt people would suicide units in kill point games. Most people are not that set in their tactics and thick in gameplay. Just saying. They aren't running suicide units, just units that can effectively suicide when they need to to win a game.

not alot of scoring units in drawhammer 40k.

Alot of hard hitters but not alot of objective takes let me know how it works for ya.

Tau Skimmers are not fast.

Neither is the Monolith.

Sure would be bull if they were.

Most Eldar skimmers never have a 4+ cover save, and Tau shooting doesn't really scare terminators a whole lot but the 4+ cover save is annoying. That is why you bring 8 tank hunting shots along for the ride.

Effectively suicide sure, but...it's still a suicide unit, yes? So it shouldn't be that hard to kill, or you run into problems trying to suicide it lol. Just saying, it's a liability in KP games and people are really worried about KP's (because they're stupid--the KP's not the players).

Stelek,

This is the second army list post that I have read of yours. (Tau) (Templars) and in both cases you throw a temper tantrum when someone tries to give you some constructive criticism! You need to grow up and learn to except that you are not the know all see all of Warhamer 40k. I have been playing Templars since Armageddon and NO you do not have enough crusader squads in your army list. They are the back bone of any BT army and they are what set the BT’s apart from every other Marine army. Stop bashing people who try to give you advice!

@HotSoup:

They cannot, as it is not marked with a T on the wargear page. READ YOUR RULES.

Seeing as how you can take Cenobytes directly from the Chaplain's unit entry, completely bypassing the 100-point wargear/option limitations of the Wargear section, I would say that they in fact can. Might want to check on that before running down the "READ YOUR RULES" path.

After three years of play using the Black Templar Codex, every opponent I've gone up against has agreed with my understanding of the rules.

@Stelek:

Tau Skimmers are not fast.

Neither is the Monolith.

Sure would be bull if they were.

QFT. Three fast Monoliths would make everyone cry.

@killerweasel:
You and I are on the same page regarding BT organization. I've been playing for nearly 10 years, back when Armageddon was the up-to-date ruleset, and I would say that while Termies are fun, Templars require huge loads of Crusader Initiate/Neophyte combinations to be successful, supported by mobile anti-tank and rapid-attack forces.

Templarwing is fun, but hinges upon a weakness that has become all the more glaringly obvious with the release of 5th Edition. Again, my rule of thumb is a minimum 1-to-1 ratio of Crusader Squads to non-Crusaders, with at least a third of the army going to the Troops.

CK

killerweasel wrote:Stelek,

This is the second army list post that I have read of yours. (Tau) (Templars) and in both cases you throw a temper tantrum when someone tries to give you some constructive criticism! You need to grow up and learn to except that you are not the know all see all of Warhamer 40k. I have been playing Templars since Armageddon and NO you do not have enough crusader squads in your army list. They are the back bone of any BT army and they are what set the BT’s apart from every other Marine army. Stop bashing people who try to give you advice!

His ideas/words are sacred, defying them is great Heresy and he will punish you with his silly sarcasm and posts. Don't openly defy him, it leads to wasted time. I have never seen him agree with someone who makes a point against his. Not to this day.

I've seen its kind before(A Chaos Army), and it either dies terribly or eats armies alive. Meh players who fail at rhino walling have beaten him. It's simply not a well-rounded list. I can't really talk however, I have a hell of a time against it. Drawed once, lost once. Need to play him again.

EDIT:

Corpsman_of_Krieg wrote:@HotSoup:

They cannot, as it is not marked with a T on the wargear page. READ YOUR RULES.

Seeing as how you can take Cenobytes directly from the Chaplain's unit entry, completely bypassing the 100-point wargear/option limitations of the Wargear section, I would say that they in fact can. Might want to check on that before running down the "READ YOUR RULES" path.

After three years of play using the Black Templar Codex, every opponent I've gone up against has agreed with my understanding of the rules.

Hummm. Never actually noticed that. Confusing. Merit's FAQing, two different rules in the dex. I'd stand by the wargear rules, but whatever.

But I DID just remember the rule that squads with cerobytes cannot take veteran skills. Remove the Tank Hunters on the HQ squads I guess. Or drop the cerobytes.

Hmmm... I can't particularly say I'm a huge fan of this list. Sure, you have 10 Assault Cannons, but you'll be outranged in the first turn or so. Not by many weapons, but an edge to the opponent nonetheless.

After that, you can't really rely on your 5-man squads to be able to hide forever. It's a small board, and until they arrive, the opponent gets to chisel at your army. There will be 2 objectives half the time there are objectives, and 3-5 the other half. You'll only ever be able to capture 2 of them (and half the time, it will be very hard to do so). I look at it this way:
-If there are few objectives, then you can claim a higher % of them with your two, but your opponent won't have trouble focusing on the ones you're going for.
-If there are many objectives (say 4 or 5), then you'll have trouble keeping up with your opponent. At this stage, your opponent can still focus himself to get to your scoring units. Even 25 Terminators can't stop 1850 points from getting to 10 PA marines.

Other then the severe lack of Troops, this is a terrifying list. In concept, it's very sturdy, but concept is a treacherous thing that can at any moment disintegrate like a Chinese Women's Gymnastics gold medal. You'll have trouble against a lot of things in CC (odd as it seems), though you'll be able to match some good firepower lists.

This looks like a list that would be fun to play. Come to Illinois sometime! Haha

I don't think this is an all-powerful win-everything list.

I merely think it is competitive, and that I can nullify the apparent drawbacks by judicious application of tactical acumen.

I think others can too.

As far as agreeing with others or not, anyone that makes a solid argument will at least get me to acknowledge it.

Saying 'it isn't so' or 'that sucks' isn't exactly a way to convince me to agree with you. Add in some background information that makes sense, or rules...something! Others do it and don't end up in 50 quote "discussions"...

Stelek wrote:I don't think this is an all-powerful win-everything list.

I merely think it is competitive, and that I can nullify the apparent drawbacks by judicious application of tactical acumen.

I think others can too.

As far as agreeing with others or not, anyone that makes a solid argument will at least get me to acknowledge it.

Saying 'it isn't so' or 'that sucks' isn't exactly a way to convince me to agree with you. Add in some background information that makes sense, or rules...something! Others do it and don't end up in 50 quote "discussions"...

No matter what you say, how foolish it(Abhor the Witch being good, for example), you never actually agree with those who go against you. You post to get praise, not to get criticism.

If saying "That's wrong" isn't a way to convince you otherwise, what is? Also, they know when to stop with you. I didn't learn that til now.

Again, no Tank Hunters on the HQ squads with Cerobytes.

I like Abhor the Witch. Sorry I do, I'll try to like it less.

Well this blog has been very entertaining, with people judging each other's ability to read, think, agree, disagree, and use "acumen".

It looks so fun that I think I'll take a stab. However please forgive any statements I make that disregard the rules because I am not as well connected to the veins of 5e info as my fellow dakians. All I have is a decent understanding of 4e rules and tactics.

so, here goes.

You need more scoring squads. you can't rely on your opponent being unable to do anything especially in a tourney. If someone was able to effectively infiltrate, or deep strike you would be in lots of trouble, and though they would then get obliterated by termies, quite possibly in the next turn by the unholy amounts of fire you can lay down , you would still be without your scoring squads leaving you... well ... busted.

That being said, your army is amazingly solid, and I can only hope that my infiltrators would be able to kill your scorers before being blasted to bits... but I wouldn't count on it.

And as far as never agreeing with criticism it may be true, but at least he does it politely, which is better than what some people have done in this forum. (Those people will probably now be thinking that I'm trying to suck up or something )

but If this is for Ard boyz then why is it only 1850 points? Yous should use those extra points to get more 3/5 more scoring units and 2/5 more of your screens

Heh, I actually have enough terminators to build this list. \o/

i do so love termies... they are just great models. That being said , I will agree that you need more scoring units. You are too dependent on things going right. If they don't, you have little redundancy and NO speed to fix them.

Further, the only speed you have are pods that need to take objectives or ridiculously slow termies that can only shoot.

Any army with some speed (isn't that everyone now that we can run?) is gonna have you either chasing them around the board (which forces you to split your fire and you will need to concentrate your fire) or just pick on your flanks and eat the termie units up one by one. It'll take some doing no doubt but will inflict losses yourarmy wont have the depth to recover from.

I'd drop one termie unit and pick up 2 more of the crusader squads. That'll give you more flexibility in terms of grabbing objectives.

ender502

Shrike78 wrote: Well this blog has been very entertaining, with people judging each other's ability to read, think, agree, disagree, and use "acumen".

I'm glad we put on a show. I've gotten praise from others as well.

It looks so fun that I think I'll take a stab. However please forgive any statements I make that disregard the rules because I am not as well connected to the veins of 5e info as my fellow dakians. All I have is a decent understanding of 4e rules and tactics.

so, here goes.

You need more scoring squads. you can't rely on your opponent being unable to do anything especially in a tourney. If someone was able to effectively infiltrate, or deep strike you would be in lots of trouble, and though they would then get obliterated by termies, quite possibly in the next turn by the unholy amounts of fire you can lay down , you would still be without your scoring squads leaving you... well ... busted.

This army relies on completely killing the enemy if that happens. Which is well, hard. He will draw a lot, I think, except vs certain armies that can eat this up(Plasma Drop Pod Angry Marine List, say). Otherwise, its pretty solid, and the only real weakness is a either A. Facing a feth-Ton of plasma, or B. Losing the scoring units to something, anything. I guess C. could be a Infiltrating Stealer list of doom, but other then that...

That being said, your army is amazingly solid, and I can only hope that my infiltrators would be able to kill your scorers before being blasted to bits... but I wouldn't count on it.

And as far as never agreeing with criticism it may be true, but at least he does it politely, which is better than what some people have done in this forum. (Those people will probably now be thinking that I'm trying to suck up or something )

I wouldn't call being a sarcastic being polite, but to each his own I guess.

but If this is for Ard boyz then why is it only 1850 points? Yous should use those extra points to get more 3/5 more scoring units and 2/5 more of your screens

Its for post-ard boyz. I made the same mistake.

More scoring units would be nice. With 6 BR boxes planned, I should be able to build all sorts of crazy marine configs. Once I play the list a bit I'll know how/why I like it and what needs to change.

HotSoup wrote:
Yea, sure, Stelekwing. Doesn't matter something insanely similar to this was posted on the B&C a while ago. No, totally Stelekwing. Hes definitely the first. Not the guy on the B&C at least two months ago, no. /sarcasm.

Sorry for not searching the entire internet first before responding to a post about little plastic men. Seriously, lighten up a bit. Just because I made a non negative reply to a Stelek post doesn't mean you need to attack me.