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This is a thread I am creating as a safety valve for some of the feelings I've noticed being stirred up in Kid Kyoto's modelling thread on turning Fascist armour into Ork armour. (really Orks, especially second edition Orks, are just cartoon versions of Germans as depicted in Soviet wartime propaganda which is why it's such an intuitive conversion, but that's all the segue this needs)

Go nuts boys.

Very tastefully done this.

Everybody wants to interrupt a guy trying to get advice on how to convert a 1/35 piece for casual games telling him how the Krauts were SUCH nice people during WWII, and no one wants to talk about it in its own thread... L. O. L.

What Beef do people have with Sauerkraut?

Hey, it was never the tanks that were evil.

They made tanks out of Sauerkraut?

You Bastar !

0_o
wow, people can de-volve, its a plastic kit for F sake, it wont hurt anyone, unless you possible fall on it / it gets thrown at you.

why would anyone have a problem with it? its just people looking for an argument.

40k Orks aren't caricatures of Germans. They're soccer hooligans / lower class (Cockney) louts. I think the German thing came from the helmets being a popular biker affectation (http://www.ironhorsehelmets.com/novelty.htm), and Ork bikers were just another facet of the amusing collection of stereotypes.

Lucky he didn't use a humvee with it conertations of imperialistic America pounding the crud out of poor downtrodden sand farmers of who the hell cares...

People need to get down off their crosses and use the wood to build a bridge and get over it. Its a toy kit of a vehicle that acctually existed.

Its not like its a flying swastika or anything.

thank you gonads, i couldnt of said it better my self, allthough mine would contain alot of swearing.

Someone over on the Battlefront forums said that toy soldiers don't have ideologies.

But I don't know, they play mostly historicals over there so they're probably all fascist dogs.

Really, for me, the issue is not the figure in particular, it's what you do with the figure.

If someone chooses to show up with an SS themed IG army, replete with Swastikas festooned on everyone, dresses up appropriately and goose-steps into the store, well, I'll be a little turned off.

But lets face it, the whole freakin' game is pretty fascist. Or, as a FOAF once said, "they call 'em 'space marines' because 'space nazis' just wouldn't sell as well".

JD21290 wrote:0_o
wow, people can de-volve, its a plastic kit for F sake, it wont hurt anyone, unless you possible fall on it / it gets thrown at you.

why would anyone have a problem with it? its just people looking for an argument.

Well, if it does get thrown at me I’d rather it was Sherman than King Tiger… those things were massive.

the Nazis... go German army. For those who see them as one institution, they are not. The large percentage of German soldiers were not in fact members of the Nazi party. They were propaganda-ized German civilians tricked into thinking the same way as the Nazis.

Saying that the Germans were all Nazis would be like saying all Soviets during the Cold War were Communists or that Stalin's purges were the country's fault.

You have to have respect for them, no matter what you think of the Nazis, if it was up to France, WWII would have been another trench war; but because the Germans took the first move they used their now famous Blitzkrieg(TM 1939) to quickly overwhelm the lowland countries. The Germans, despite everything anyone says about them, revolutionalized the world with WWII. (Not saying I fully supprot WWII)

Shadow Nugz wrote: the Nazis... go German army. For those who see them as one institution, they are not. The large percentage of German soldiers were not in fact members of the Nazi party. They were propaganda-ized German civilians tricked into thinking the same way as the Nazis.

Saying that the Germans were all Nazis would be like saying all Soviets during the Cold War were Communists or that Stalin's purges were the country's fault.

You have to have respect for them, no matter what you think of the Nazis, if it was up to France, WWII would have been another trench war; but because the Germans took the first move they used their now famous Blitzkrieg(TM 1939) to quickly overwhelm the lowland countries. The Germans, despite everything anyone says about them, revolutionalized the world with WWII. (Not saying I fully supprot WWII)

Except it wasn't a particularly proud time for the German army as a whole, plenty of appalling acts were committed, especially on the Eastern front. Just as the Red army was not the party, but both did plenty of appalling things as they advanced on Berlin.

Ah, yes, the glorious lineage of the Einsatzgruppe...

The Wermacht never cleared the way for the SS kill teams to be able to come in and round up the undesirables. Nope nope nope. They are absolved of all sins.

This is part of why German historians have come to call "The Past that will not pass". The rest of the world won't let it be forgotten, and many Germans want to deny the truth of the situation. There are many accounts about how after the fall of Berlin suddenly their were no Nazis. Apparently they came into power and started a World War, but it was only like 8 Drunk guys doing it and the rest of the Germans were to busy baking bread and doing charitable work to notice.

Accept it, the Wermacht was as complicit as the others; they did some messed up stuff and were part of the problem. Trying to deny it is like picking a scab over and over, the wound won't heal.

There were of course some people that fought against it in different ways, but by and large they were the exception, not the rule.

Many of the problems we have in the US is becuase we don't want to honestly face the past (what Indian Treaties?, ect).

One day I'm going to build a giant flying swastika that that shoots candy. Yeah. That'd be great.

First to Stalingrad, for the sixty-year-old children of those lost to the huns.

Then to Disneyland with a stash of hidden liquor and a dozen bootlegged foam-mascot suits.

----

Did someone compare communists to Nazis? Come on, grow up. Your parents have that misapprehension, not you.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:

Did someone compare communists to Nazis? Come on, grow up. Your parents have that misapprehension, not you.

Quite the opposite in fact! I clearly remember my dad telling me "Never mention Nazis and Commies in the same paragraph, especially on internetz threads."

Those germans! Terrible the way they firebombed civilians in Dresden and Tokyo!

Wait...

No belligerent nation in a global war is innocent.

My Great Uncle Val was part of a Bomber crew during the Second World War, and I am fortunate enough to own a photocopy of his Flight Log Book.

If you want to see the difference between what a government does, and how the soldier feels, his thoughts on helping to flatten Dresden make quite an eye opener.

And that is the way to go for Historical references. Not official accounts. No excuses, no propaganda... Just the clear, un-edited thoughts of the poor mooks ordered to do it.

My only issue is that Kid Kyoto may get lazy with the number of skulls he puts on. Everry good inquisitor will have enough skulls to separate him from the average Chaos Bezerker.

"Some say 50 skulls is sufficient. Some say 100. But, my friends, I say a true Imperial citizen will not stop until every square MM is covered by a holy skull!" Inquisitor A.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:Did someone compare communists to Nazis? Come on, grow up. Your parents have that misapprehension, not you.

Except context matters. In terms of greater politics there's a lot of differences between the two ideologies, but we aren't talking about that, we're talking about war crimes.

Here the two countries have a lot in common, and the comparison is more relevant given the crimes took place against each other.

grickherder wrote:Those germans! Terrible the way they firebombed civilians in Dresden and Tokyo!

Wait...

No belligerent nation in a global war is innocent.

It's good to remember that every nation commits war crimes. It's very silly to completely ignore the extent and quantity of each nation's crimes.

Of course its also good to remember in the war mentioned it wasn't the US/GB/Australia that set up death camps and killed whole populations.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:
Its not like its a flying swastika or anything.

Oh that´s already been done

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=AeFkwjEJnbA&feature=related

And it was a submarine too!

M.

But no skulls, spikes and especially no candy throwing breath.

M.

jfrazell wrote:Of course its also good to remember in the war mentioned it wasn't the US/GB/Australia that set up death camps and killed whole populations.

No death camps for the U.S. but they sure had no qualms about concentration camps. Didn't kill many people but they sure did imprison an entire population.

this is still going?
stelek decides to be an ass and start complaining (not that this effects him in any way) and now everyones up in arms defending everything that has happened in the past.

chill out everyone.
its a toy, it doesent fire swastika's, it doesent shoot a propaganda beam, nor does it have a speaker shouting out "hail hitla"

its a plastic toy that someone hs used to start all this crap.
i say forget it all and leave this in the past too.

Thats why its being discussed here, in the awesomeness of the OTT.