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how hard would it be to get my chapter accepted by the general players of 40k? my chapter has extensive fluff and special rules, (the we'll be back rule for instance, there's a reason behind it but essentially its on a 5+ after a squad has been eliminated) the models are basic space marines but there is a whole back story that in current fluff terms would mark them as renegades, but they have been around since before the beginning of the great crusade. I think of marines as space marines 1.0 , this chapter would represent marines 0.5, the prototype. what should i do to have it accepted?

People aren't going to like you inventing rules that give your special army a combat advantage. It doesn't matter about the fluff.

If your guys have an advantage, then they need an equal or greater disadvantage.

kinda like what newton said

It's just the way things are; Jervis and co. don't like being told what to do. And to be honest, yet another marine army? Give the other races a break. Kudos for the fluff, but the competition is fierce and unwanted in the first place.

Wheres all the fluff? I'll give it a quick read.

the fluff is variously in my head and notebooks scattered around the house, as for the resurrection ability, its because of the extensive bionics installed to make up for the lack of marine organs and such, also their armour isnt as up to scratch, as such, they cost less points, but arent as powerful as marines individually, so in a way, its less another chapter than another faction, ish

Well, if you ever get any ofit down on dakka, let me know

will do

If you can post some fluff or rules it would be much liked

Yeah, I would like to see it =)

'much liked'? lol, good grammar squiggy. But yeah, I'd wanna see some more, too. I guess you'll have to get it down on your computer, Edward.

sigh, ok, for you guys i'll do it

also, some of that fluff would be nice if it was posted =D

righto, here we go with the big one, first off, here's the link to the models i have painted so far (theres another 5 marines or so but they arent as well painted or special) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/220284.page and before you guys say anything, yes, my painting is sloppy and really not very good but i dont have time to improve/do any at the moment being in final year of school, and it being nearly over. Anyway, without further ado......i present the Ferrous Immortalis

The story begins around M28, at which time “Earliest modified warriors aid the Emperor in conquest of Terra.” The Ferrous Immortalis (Iron Immortals) begin here, as basic soldiers, of which there are ten, who, after proving their skills in battle and their veteran status have been altered by the Emperor. These first ten soldiers are the prelude to the whole Space Marine lineage, they are equipped with the finest technology the Emperor can provide and after being altered genetically are sent out into the field as a crack commando squad, leading the Emperor’s armies to victory across Terra.

The original ten were sent out in order to collect data on their performance and eventually improve on the modification process. The soldiers have been altered in numerous ways, their muscle mass has been increased, bone density increased, they have a multi lung and then have various cybernetic implants throughout their bodies, including circulatory system boosters, optical enhancements, limb enhancement and so forth. Essentially the Iron Immortals are Space Marines 0.5, not quite there but still far more than human.

Because of the limited techniques used in the process many of the organic components in current space marines are instead cybernetic in nature, meaning, in game that the Iron Immortals are not as good as space marines in terms of stats but instead have a lower points cost.

The 10 soldiers were eventually groomed to be put in charge of their own legions of super soldiers like them, but first the Emperor sent them each to the far corners of the galaxy to perform a rite of initiation, upon returning, the Emperor had been convinced that the 10 primarchs (i use the term loosely, as they were intended to be the first round of primarchs) had been corrupted by chaos, the primarchs and the space marines (again referring to the prototype marine) who had been sent with them in order to help complete their task touched down and were met by the Emperor, the Altruvian blademasters, and an enormous host of the Imperial Army, these forces clashed in a heroic and massive battle. 9 of the primarchs were killed and all but the last 200 space marines were eliminated, surviving only to retreat to the strike cruiser Archos.

the Ferrous Immortalis gained their name from the numerous 'archaic' implants they used to stay alive through the millenia, seeking revenge on the Inquisition, due to this ferocious hatred of the Inquisition the original 200 marines are still alive to this day, seeking redemption in the eyes of the Emperor who they never broke faith with. The faction's main goal is to invade Sol and free the Emperor from the confines of the golden throne, thus elevating him to the star child status, as such, it puts them at odds with nearly all of the Imperium.

As for specific rules...well, I'm not sure what to do with the stats as I don't want to leave them a meager force, but essentially, any of the veterans that are fielded automatically gain the we'll be back rule, due to the massive amount of bionics and so forth, replacing their organs etc. once the squad is killed to a man, you roll D6 for each model and on a 5+ they come back (veterans have one wound anyway).

as a final word, the paint job, the black represents mourning (pretty obvious), they white shoulder pads are just cause I like the look, and the white helmet with crying eyes represents the purity they know they have and the fact they are weeping at the emperor pushing them away.

right, questions, comments, suggestions, all are welcome, also spread the word, I want as many people as possible weighing in.

ohh....that painting is pretty bad, not trying to be rude, just being honest.

Theres soo many holes in your "fluff" it hurts. So the hazy fluff of WH40K goes, the Inquisition wasn't even around until after or at least coming to the end of the Horus Heresy, so they'd have been no "Inquisition" to advise the Emperor about the corruption of his warriors at the time your fluff is set!

My advice would be to do some more research, and invest in a few Codexs, not to mention the ongoing stuff from Black-library on the Horus Heresy.

shoot, ok, time for revision the story reeeallly needs to be revised a large amount

The Inquisition weren't founded until just after the Horus Heresy era...

oh ffs, right, its deleted jeez no more inquisition

Awesome, you got some of it down. Well, I like it, but I haven't read too much into any of the Imperiums pre-existing fluff, so it's still all good to me, inquisition or no!

I like the concept!

Yeh theres a few holes, the inquisition thing and also theres already some stuff writen about pre primarch space marines, Iacton Qruze for example.

And when you say "still alive to this day," what do you mean?

Based on your fluff, I would say that, at best, your Marines have a 4+ armor save and a 6+ invulnerable save with basic marine stats in every other respect.

Bionics in the Imperium and 40k don't equate to WBB. WBB is intended to reflect some sort of insane self-healing property, as in the case of Necron Living Metal. When a Necron is crushed into utter nothingness, he can still stick his old pieces onto himself and get back up as good as new.

Bionics, on the other hand, represent redundant organs and stuff that's 'nice, but not necessary' like an augmetic limb. The Invulnerable Save reflects an ability to get shot in your fake hand and shake it off because it's not "you". A model that is removed due to wounds is not necessarily dead, he's just suffered enough injury to put him out of combat.

Based on your background material, I'd say that your Marines would look like this:

WS BS S T I W Sv
4 4 4 4 4 1 4+/6+

Equipment: bolter, bolt pistol, frag grenades, krak grenades, carapace armor

Cost: 12 pts

Now, if you're dead set on WBB rules, then just take Necron Warriors as-written, dump the Gauss rules, and use a 4+ save. But there is no way that a unit with WBB, even on a 5+, will be cheaper than a regular marine unless it is *significantly* worse. WBB grants a huge amount of survivability and the basic marine statline compensates for the only real necron weakness, close combat.

sourclams, thank you, sounds good, im not too fussed about WBB but thats really helpful having the whole breakdown.

what what, 'to this day' means that the entire 200 original marines are still a functioning chapter in the current 40k universe, they live on a huge, and i mean truly monstrous space hulk on the outer fringes, occasionally striking here or there against the inquisition as they are seen as the successors of the people who persuaded the emperor to betray them, as for Iacton Qruze, he was one of the first inquisitors, he and a sob founded the inquisition. Anyway, the current number of ferrous immortalis i would llike to place it at around 20,000, and before you explode with indignation that such a large force exists, consider the fluff, they have been steadily building their strength since before the great crusade (which would majorly predate Iacton Qruze) and until recently they had over 500,000 troops, this is the main reason for the city sized space hulk, but they took on a hive fleet by themselves in order to save the imperium, (they want to depose the current rulers, not kill the imperium) because of which a huge number were killed, as such they now have human troops backing them up who are in preparation for augmentation. as for their numbers, their only goal in the galaxy is to attack and control terra, and then allow the emperor to die, but when you consider the forces arrayed against them (billions of IG, read the fluff if you dont believe ) it would take many more than that to actually make the goal achievable, thus preserving the balance that gw has attempted to achieve with its races.

I mentioned Iacton Qruze because hes an example of a pre primarch space marine, which your guys are supposed to be. Youre guys could predate him though yes.

About the still living 200. You do realise that the only living person not defected to chaos still living after the horus heresy is the emporer? and even then, hes not exactly living.

dont let the fluff stop your creativity, but theres a lot of issues there. Generally custom fluff shouldnt be major stuff on the scale of things, and a 20,00 strong legion of prototype marines on a crusade to kill the emperor certainly is.

i have a far reaching ambition!! neways,

'You do realise that the only living person not defected to chaos still living after the horus heresy is the emporer?'

i dont understand that sentence, but the ferrous immortalis stayed clear of the emperor and and imperium in general during the horus heresy, thus they werent exposed to corruption as such, secondly, a force of 20,000 prototype marines is not much in comparison to the near limitless forces the inquisition can call upon, so i reckon its more or less balanced out

Edward089 wrote:'You do realise that the only living person not defected to chaos still living after the horus heresy is the emporer?'

i dont understand that sentence,

I'm basically saying that by stating you have people on your army who are old enough to have lived pre heresy. Is a very substantial thing to say.

20,000 Marines, even proto-Marines, with the support structure that their gigantic Space Hulk suggests, would be an absolutely enormous military force of almost unprecedented potency. If they were able to pull up to Terra without having to fight past Mars or Saturn first they could probably take the entire planet singlehandedly.

sourclams, they do have to go through the various systems to get to terra, and seeing as they live on the outer rim (sw term i know ) the imperium would get would and move to intercept them before they could get to terra

whatwhat, ahk, i get it now, weeell, essentially they have survived due to their desire to get back in the emperor's good books as it were, through sheer force of will

oh and 'proto-marines' is a good term, i think that shall be the name for them now (instead of marines)

For friendly games, why not just use the old Iron Hands list?

The old bionics rule would suit you better, methinks.

re painting, is this army inspired by Brandon Lee?

lol, i can see how you would think that, but nah, it just came to me as i was painting it

goddamit, i'm gonna have to revise this soon, keep the history up to date and all that, but the responses have been greatly appreciated