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Hello everyone. If you've been directed here from my other thread in the 'tactics' section, thank you for your help so far. Reecius, I read your article; thank you very much. I've decided it's going to be an assault list with plenty of Drop Pods (four to be precise). The plan is that the libby goes with the HF termy squad, 'supporting' them; gating them around to where they can be used. The snipers sit back on the home objective and shoot. The close combat scouts outflank with the LS storm onto an objective held by some not assaulty unit such as guardsmen, guardians, fire warriors etc. With help from the cerberus launcher, they will make the enemy turn tail, them setting up their heavy bolter and putting out some hurt (well, as much hurt that scouts can put out, anyway). Drop Pods will drop in, breaking up the opponent's army. Termies and libby will drop using the locator beacon from one of the drop pods. The libby can gate the termies to any enemies who are in cover; flushing them out with the HF. The predator can make its way up the field, putting fire on anything that poses much of a threat to anything. The scouts will hopefully be able to pin a unit or two down (though I am aware that scouts are shocking snipers).

I've designated the dreads as killy/supporting units who can go with the tac squads, lending a hand as well as dishing out some pain. The termies and predator are going to be killy units. Once objectives have been cleared by the dreads and termies, the tac squads lending a hand, the tac squads can move in. In the event that it would be inconvenient for the CC scouts to attack an objective; late game they can jump in their storm and rush over to an objective, contesting it.

HQ

SPACE MARINE LIBRARIAN
• Terminator armour and storm shield
• Vortex of Doom
• Gate of Infinity
Total... 140 Points

TROOPS

TACTICAL SQUAD
• Five additional Space Marines
• Meltagun
• Missile launcher
• Sergeant’s chainsword
• Drop Pod
• Drop Pod’s deathwind missile launcher
Total... 230 Points

TACTICAL SQUAD
• Five additional marines
• Plasma gun
• Lascannon
• Sergeant’s chainsword
• Drop Pod
• Drop Pod’s locator beacon
Total... 235 Points

SCOUT SQUAD
• Four sniper rifles
• Missile launcher
• Camo cloaks
Total... 100 Points

SCOUT SQUAD
• Three combat blades
• Heavy bolter (with hellfire shells
• Sergeant’s shotgun
• Sergeant’s power fist
Total... 110 Points

ELITES

TERMINATOR SQUAD
• Heavy flamer
Total... 210 Points

TERMINATOR SQUAD
• Assault cannon
• One chainfist
Total... 235 Points

DREADNOUGHT...
• Extra armour
• Heavy flamer
• Drop Pod
Total... 165 Points

DREADNOUGHT
• Heavy flamer
• Assault cannon
• Extra armour
• Drop Pod
Total... 175 Points

FAST ATTACK

LAND SPEEDER STORM
Total... 50 Points

HEAVY SUPPORT

PREDATOR
• Heavy bolter sponsons
• Dozer blade
• Extra armour
Total... 105 Points

Well, I really like Scouts and know all there is to know about their uses.
Check out my 'Ard Boyz Army:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/295870.page
Anyway, I really would squeeze for Telion. You never know how good picking off the power weapon in a squad is before you charge them with scouts unless you've used it. Its so nice. Or, you know, a BS6 ML. Not to mention he gives your scouts the Stealth rule. Owned. 10 pts. for a HF on the Storm is a must have in all but one scenario simply because of the poor BS and open-topped. That scenario is, if you run Telion's squad in it. You can shoot out while giving Telion a trash can to hide in front of. In that case, you want the HB for range. THE Hf is nice for outflanking or DS'ing if you choose to do so. Remember, its just like a deff kopta, you can scout move it. Which means, turn 1 assault with scout goodies inside. The cerberus launcher should help. I dislike the fight scouts load out for the most part. The Sergeant looks good. If your running a HW however, you don't want to run combat loadouts on the rest. Pick one theme or leave them. Scouts need to be dedicated. Run the sergeant as is, and run shotguns over bolt pistols and close combat weapons for one reason. They both attack at S4 and neither ignore armor. They also all hit on 4's (usually, in which case it wouldn't matter). HOWEVER, the advantage in shotguns is the fact that you can kill them before they even have the opportunity to swing. For example 8 shots kills two marines. Bam! They have no chance to hurt you in CC. While if you charged them, they could easily throw some attacks and kill some scouts. Since you end up getting the same attacks, run the chance of wiping them out first. Your main reason for the scout squads is to wipe one unit out entirely. If they live past that great, but not likely. Then, since the Storm is in their front lines as well, you can HF something and likely kill it or break it. It's a rather nice combo. As well as the fact that if people are shooting at your Scouts, it buys your elitists time to live. I've run gating Termies to a great effect. It's really good. Maybe invest for a teleport homer on the scouts so they can follow them as well. Good luck and lets maybe see a Battle Report. Those are the exact power I use on my Librarian. Now if only we had lash.....

A staff member at GW said I should put a H-bolter on my scouts, after all, I'm only losing one attack by doing so. I honestly haven't a clue where I could get all those extra points from. I understand why Telion is fething brilliant, but I'm a fluff guy and I run Blood Ravens (though I could just say he's Sergeant Cyrus ). I think a HF on the storm and the scouts as is would be sufficient to kill something crappy like guardians or guardsmen, especially with the sarge's PF. Where do you suppose I could find ten points for a HF for the storm?

BTW, I very much enjoyed your 'Ard Boyz list, shame you weren't able to attend.

Right.

Libby shouldn't have Vortex of Doom, IMO. Especially if he's in the middle of 5 Terminators. Also, the Heavy flamer is only 5pts for termies, not 10.

Considering you're deep striking your Tac squads, a Melta-gun and Multi-Melta would probably be better. Also, with your tac squads so up close, I'd advize giving the Sergeants powerfists.

Another good upgrade to consider, if you can find the pts, is Chronus for the Dakka pred. I mean, while he's useless for any other tank (more or less) the Dakka pred is what he was born to be taken with.
Two S7 AP4 and six S5 AP4 hitting on a 2+. Heck, even throw in a storm bolter.

Anyways, The Dreads? They're so-so. An Ironclad is the better choice for coming down in a pod, because it has a higher armour value and with a CCW + Hammer it gets an extra attack, plus the bonus effect against vehicles from the Hammer. Also, you have a melta and a storm bolter base, you could upgrade one or both to heavy flamers.

Back to the libby again, I'd give him Might of the Ancients. It'll make him pretty good at taking down MC's, for instance, say him and his five termies charged a carnifex. -rolls dice-
Libby has 3 dice, he hit all three times (this is likely against most things, WS5 ftw. Usually atleast 2 hits on the charge, or one if not). lets say he passes his psychic test for MotA, he has to wound on a 4+. -rolls dice- he wounded it twice. As it is a power weapon, it ignores armour saves, so the fex just took two out of four wounds. That's nice, but if he was an epistolary, he could then test for his force weapon to cause instand death.

Now, while powerfists love to eat up MC's like carnifex's, they strike at the same Initiative. The fex will probably kill most of them and die at the same time.


Basically, my point is: You really don't have much anti-MC capabilities, except for a few high strength weapons here and there.

ultramarinelord wrote:A staff member at GW said I should put a H-bolter on my scouts, after all, I'm only losing one attack by doing so. I honestly haven't a clue where I could get all those extra points from. I understand why Telion is fething brilliant, but I'm a fluff guy and I run Blood Ravens (though I could just say he's Sergeant Cyrus ). I think a HF on the storm and the scouts as is would be sufficient to kill something crappy like guardians or guardsmen, especially with the sarge's PF. Where do you suppose I could find ten points for a HF for the storm?

BTW, I very much enjoyed your 'Ard Boyz list, shame you weren't able to attend.

Thanks for the nice feedback on my list and yeah, I was disappointed I couldn't go. However, this is where I will disagree with the Staff member, whoever that may be. Yes, you lose the one attack, but i still don't like the load-out. Scouts need a purpose. They have their special rules for one reason, to wipe something out or tie it up very early in the game. Where you would drop the points is your own choice, if you decide to do so. I to am a fluff person and understand the issue there. But Telion just needs to be in your army because, after all, you can pick off the PK Nob in an ork boy squad and then all of a sudden, they aren't that great anymore. Being myself, and having done the Storm assault turn 1, I can attest to the fact that the HF is nice simply because it doesn't use BS3 but it can also ignore cover and their 2+ save scouts are dead, or those pesky Eldar Pathfinders. The scouts are great imo and Telion, oops, "Cyrus" is amazingly good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Right.

Libby shouldn't have Vortex of Doom, IMO. Especially if he's in the middle of 5 Terminators. Also, the Heavy flamer is only 5pts for termies, not 10.

I completely, and respectfully disagree with you. Its not that likely you fail a LDS 10 psychic check. The S10 Ap1 template is always worth it. That simple.

Hey, good start on the list.

First thing that jumps out is that you have 4 elites choices, and can only have 3.

Vortex of doom, while useful, is not the best choice for your load out. The only powers I ever use with my libby are gate, null zone and avenger. They are the most useful of the powers although a strength 10 attack is very nice for popping vehicles.

Drop pods are tricky in 5th edition, they are definitely a gambler's army. You will find that a smart opponent will reserve up and let you drop onto an empty board, then simply react to you and you find yourself running around trying to catch him.

You may find yourself getting better results by meching up with Rhinos.

The Storm is a unit I was pretty iffy on until I saw a guy win the BSB GT using one. I do not use one myself, but I can see the utility in a fast scoring unit. I would prefer to use my point elsewhere, but that is just me.

Also, the assault cannon is inferior to the cyclone missile launcher in this edition. The cyclone is better at popping vehicles and at crowd control.

I am of the opinion that Telion is not worth the points. He is good, no doubt, but for what he costs you could take a Razorback or a land speeder which will give you more punch in your list.

And Dreadnoughts are EXCELLENT. They are cheap, multi purpose and effective. Ironclads are superior, however, the basic dreads are fantastic for their points. I use 3 in my tournament list and they always shine.

Here are my suggestions:

Libby
Gate, Null Zone

Tac Squad 1
Melta, M.Melta, C.Melta, D.Pod, Beacon

Tac Squad 2
Flamer, M.Launcher, C.Flamer, Fist, D.Pod, Beacon

Scouts x 5
C.Melta, T.Homer

Sniper Scouts x 5
cloaks, m.launcher

Terminators x 10
Cyclone Missile Launcher x 2

Dreadnought
H.Flamer, D.Pod

Dreadnought
H.Flamer, D.Pod

Land Speeder Storm
H.Flamer

Thunderfire Cannon
D.Pod

That is 1750 on the nose and it pretty much keeps what you had in the original list but trims the fat.

The T.Fire cannon does the same thing as the dakka pred but it gives you access to a techmarine which gives you the 2+ save on the sniper scouts, and it gives you access to an extra drop pod so that you have 3 pods coming in turn one and you can drop the empty pod down on an enemy objective, forcing him to waste firepower destroying it. I use this tactic often and it is very effective.

Extra armor is not worth the points, don't bother with it.

Combi weapons are so clutch. You usually only get one shot with assault weapons, so when you do get that shot you need to maximize it. You will find them to be hugely useful.

The libby doesn't need termy armor, he shouldn't be in combat if you can help it. Attach him to the giant terminator squad and have them teleport around with gate, using the t.homers on the scouts and the beacons on the pods to avoid scattering or potentially losing a model. I use this unit myself often, and it is brutal. The Squad murders anything it shoots at or assaults. With all of the beacons all over the place, it is also very mobile. If needs be you can combat squad them as well.

Null Zone is hugely useful when playing almost any army. If you know you will be playing an opponent that won't require null zone switch to something else, but in general, gate and null zone is the most useful combination.

So I hope that helps, good luck with the list.