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A skimmer/jetbike/jump infantry/other that is subject to making dangerous terrain tests begins its move in dangerous terrain. It moves and ends its move in more dangerous terrain.

Does it take one or two dangerous terrain tests? If only one test, does it take it for lifting off from terrain (and getting immobilized where it started), or when it lands (getting immobilized where it ended)?

One test, and it would be for leaving in this case.

Edit for clarity: if a skimmer starts in a large piece of difficult terrain it takes the test to move. Through, out of or into a different piece of terrian doesn't matter as you took the test for leaving and you only ever take one.

Are you sure on this Yonush? I have always been under the impression you take one for taking off from dangerous terrain and one for landing in dangerous terrain with a skimmer. Could you cite the page for the tests?

Yonush is like 90% correct. You do only make 1 roll for all instances of Dangerous terrain, but not until after your unit is finished moving.

BRB page 14; Dangerous terrain: "Roll a d6 for every model that has entered, left, or moved through one or more areas of dangerous terrain during it's move."

All of the Past tense in the above rules and the fact that you tset for all Dangerous terrain you moved through, and that the end of the sentence assumes your move is finished means that you do not test until after you move.

So that means that I can take off from dangerous terrain, move 12", land in dangerous terrain, roll a and be immobilized where I landed?

Or take off from dangerous terrain, land in non-dangerous terrain, roll a and be immobilized not in dangerous terrain? That seems to not make a lot of sense to me.

Dashofpepper wrote:So that means that I can take off from dangerous terrain, move 12", land in dangerous terrain, roll a and be immobilized where I landed?

No, because the rule Kommisar Kel quoted, BRB page 14; Dangerous terrain: "Roll a d6 for every model that has entered, left, or moved through one or more areas of dangerous terrain during it's move." continues with, "A result of 1 means that the vehicle halts immediately and suffers an immobilized damage result..." so if you are rolling when you are leaving the terrain you would stop right there and be immobilized in the terrain.

Yeah, the 'has entered' in the rule is misleading, making it sound like you roll after the vehicle has completed its movement.

You roll as soon as the vehicle encounters the terrain, and as per time wizard's quote, the vehicle stops at that point.

Kel,

The way its worded the vehicle is immobilized immeaditly. This means at the start of the move he makes the test to move thru or leave he gets stuck. Not after...

Edit: this gave me a thought though... does a skimmer have to declare if its moving flat out before moving or does it just count as flat out if it moved far enough. Because if it declares then rolls a 1 wouldn't it get destroyed?

Time wizard; the rule i quoted says no such thing.

The rule I quoted was not for vehicles though; which have their very own Dangerous terrain rules on page 57 of the BRB. However that rule does not actually make any sense as it also tells you not to test until the end of the move, but then to rewind and treat it as if you were attempting to enter or start your move in DT.

Another triumph of clarity by the GW rules editorial team.

The phrase "A result of 2-6 on the dice (sic) means that the vehicle can carry on moving" would seem to indicate that the test is made when the vehicle attempts to enter difficult terrain, or move within it it during a subsequent game turn.

See p.57, TERRAIN EFFECTS second para.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Time wizard; the rule i quoted says no such thing.

The rule I quoted was not for vehicles though; which have their very own Dangerous terrain rules on page 57 of the BRB. However that rule does not actually make any sense as it also tells you not to test until the end of the move, but then to rewind and treat it as if you were attempting to enter or start your move in DT.

Kel, sorry I misquoted or misread the quoted quote!
It's that the rule on page 14 and the one on page 57 are almost identical and I missed that you specified page 14!
And the rule doesn't say not to test until the end of the move, it just says to test for each vehicle that has entered, left or moved through the terrain.

That being said, @ Kilkrazy, this rule is actually one of the fairly clear ones. On a roll of 1 the vehicle halts "immediately".
So if it was leaving difficult terrain it would stop in place, which would be "halting immediately".
If it was moving into or through difficult terrain it would stop just outside of the terrain as the rule states.

@ Yonush, the rules for moving allow you to measure a movement in one direction, change it and move another way or decide to not move at all.
If you roll a difficult terrain test, you count as movng whether you make the move or not.
Dangerous terrain tests difffer though because you only take the test when you enter, leave or move through the terrain.
So it's not really an issue of "declaring" that the skimmer is moving flat out.
You measure for the skimmer's move. If it is up to 12" then it's cruising speed.
If you choose to move more than that, then the vehicle is moving flat out, there is nothing to declare, it just is moving flat out.
If the skimmer's move starts or ends in difficult terrain, it has to take a dangerous terrain test. If it moved more than 12", beginning or ending in the difficult terrain, and rolls a '1', it is immobilized and is destroyed.
Remember that a skimmer can move over the difficult terrain without having to take the test.

So there is no requirement to "declare" any move. You just measure for the move, and can even measure in several directions finding the move that will avoid ending in difficult terrain, and therefore avoid a possible catastrophic test failure.

I'd actually been think about this a little over the course of today.

While not exactly RAW, but using the implications given to us in the terrain rules we can go with this as a "Rules as Implied":

non-vehicle models: basically go with RAW; If a model begins it's movement in dangerous terrain, or enters it during their move, make a single dangerous terrain test at the end of their movement.

Vehicle models: If a Vehicle begins it's movement in Difficult terrain, make the dangerous terrain test before it moves. Any time the vehicle wishes to enter Difficult terrain, then make a Dangerous terrain test, halting the vehicle at the edge of the terrain if it fails.

With the above we follow what the rules appear to be trying to say. In this manner Skimmers would only ever test at the beginning and ending of their moves(should they hop from difficult ground to difficult ground); while all other vehicles would test for each area as they attempt to move into it. non-vehicle models would only test and be removed after theor unit has finished moving and should have very little to 0 impact on how they are played.

Yonush wrote:Kel,

The way its worded the vehicle is immobilized immeaditly. This means at the start of the move he makes the test to move thru or leave he gets stuck. Not after...

Edit: this gave me a thought though... does a skimmer have to declare if its moving flat out before moving or does it just count as flat out if it moved far enough. Because if it declares then rolls a 1 wouldn't it get destroyed?

No. You don't have to "declare" you are moving flat out. You just move that far, and if you exceed min distance required, you are considered to move flat out. Thus if you planned to move 24 inches with a skimmer and were imobilized right as you started due to DT, then you would just be immobilized.

If your move ENDS in DT and you get immobilized, that is a whole other story.

Kommissar Kel wrote:
With the above we follow what the rules appear to be trying to say. In this manner Skimmers would only ever test at the beginning and ending of their moves(should they hop from difficult ground to difficult ground); while all other vehicles would test for each area as they attempt to move into it. non-vehicle models would only test and be removed after theor unit has finished moving and should have very little to 0 impact on how they are played.

The only disagreement I have here Kommissar Kel is that the rule says to roll for each vehicle that has entered, left or moved through the terrain.
I would think this means the vehicle takes 1 test regardless of how many area of difficult terrain it moves through.
For example, I start in the open, move through 1 area of difficult terrain and end my move in another. I take 1 test and if I fail I stop before the first area of difficult terrain.
If, however, I start in difficult terrain, move through another area, and stop in yet a third, I take one test. If I pass, the move stays as is. If I fail, I'm immobilized in the first area of terrain.

Page 71 has the specific rules for Skimmers testing for terrain.

Page 53 has the specific rules for Jetbikes.

Dash, as far as why you are asking this question regarding the Reaver Jetbikes moving in the trench the relevant rule is,

"However if a moving bike begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So they would have had to test for beginning their move and then ending their move in the trenches. He hosed you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Everyone really needs to go through and read the movement rules for each of the examples Dash asked for. It isn't a one shoe fits all scenario.

Brother Ramses wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Everyone really needs to go through and read the movement rules for each of the examples Dash asked for. It isn't a one shoe fits all scenario.

Page 52 BRB, "However, if a moving jump infantry model begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test."

Page 53 BRB, "However, if a moving jetbike begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test."

Page 71 BRB, "However, if a moving skimmer starts or ends its move in difficult or dangerous terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test."

The questions and answers are essentially the same for all the unit types.

time wizard wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:
With the above we follow what the rules appear to be trying to say. In this manner Skimmers would only ever test at the beginning and ending of their moves(should they hop from difficult ground to difficult ground); while all other vehicles would test for each area as they attempt to move into it. non-vehicle models would only test and be removed after theor unit has finished moving and should have very little to 0 impact on how they are played.

The only disagreement I have here Kommissar Kel is that the rule says to roll for each vehicle that has entered, left or moved through the terrain.
I would think this means the vehicle takes 1 test regardless of how many area of difficult terrain it moves through.
For example, I start in the open, move through 1 area of difficult terrain and end my move in another. I take 1 test and if I fail I stop before the first area of difficult terrain.
If, however, I start in difficult terrain, move through another area, and stop in yet a third, I take one test. If I pass, the move stays as is. If I fail, I'm immobilized in the first area of terrain.

That runs back into a "when do I take the test?" though. Which is the whole problem with the Vehicle and difficult terrain rules interactions. you wind up with either not moving at all(based on the Difficult terrain rules stating that the vehicle becomes immobilized as soon as it attempts to move into/out of/through), or freely moving through all of it with impunity.

I also specifically ignored the "test for moving through" portion of the rule because it is an impossibility in the rules; you will either be starting in, or entering the terrain in order to move through the terrain.

time wizard wrote:

Brother Ramses wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Everyone really needs to go through and read the movement rules for each of the examples Dash asked for. It isn't a one shoe fits all scenario.

Page 52 BRB, "However, if a moving jump infantry model begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test."

Page 53 BRB, "However, if a moving jetbike begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test."

Page 71 BRB, "However, if a moving skimmer starts or ends its move in difficult or dangerous terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test."

The questions and answers are essentially the same for all the unit types.

The point being is that people were trying to determine timing and not using the unit specific rules and instead going by either page 14 or the generic rules for vehicles taking the test.

The timing for all non-vehicle units are the same.

As are all vehicles(implied but poorly stated in the RAW).

It is just the terrain itself/interaction with the terrain during movement that changes

BRB FAQ
"Q: If models disembark from a transport into dangerous
terrain, do they take a dangerous terrain test? Unlike Pilein
or Consolidation moves, disembarking does not
specifically states that it doesn't trigger dangerous terrain
tests. (p67)
A: Dangerous terrain says you test for every model that
has 'entered, left or moved through' the terrain. As there is
no exception in the text, disembarking models do have to
test. However, if they disembark at the beginning of their
move and then move after the disembarkation, only one
test is needed, not two."
Only one test.

Yes, we have fully hashed out that non-vehicle models only take 1 test; thank you Seattle.