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This situation happened in a game I played.

I had a unit of 5 warriors with 2 crypteks attached (from 2 royal courts). They get assaulted and lose both crypteks + 2 warriors. Survivors then fall back. 1 of the cryptek would get back up from Ever-living.

Now the way that I played it, when the cryptek got back up, the unit falling back was too far away so I played the cryptek as its own unit. Then I played the unit as a unit of 5 warriors (instead of a unit of 7 models) so they were able to test for regrouping because 3 of 5 (or 6 if you count the cryptek that didn' get back up) allowed them to test for regrouping.

Would you say that I played it right, or did I mess up big time? And why? Thanks.

You can't use re-animation protocols when a unit is falling back. It's under the RP rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's at the end of the first paragraph of the RP rule.

There's no distance limitation for the standup from RP which Everliving uses when attached to a unit.
"If the model had joined a unit when it was removed as a casualty, and the roll was passed, it must be returned to play, with a single wound, in coherency with that unit as explained in RP."

Edit: Whoops. He's right. "If the unit makes a fall back move, remove any counters from it - any damaged necrons are left behind and self-destruct rather than risk capture by the enemy."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I would say that since the Cryptek is added during deployment he counts for all purposes as part of the squad, even if he later is not part of the squad. So squad size is 7 models and 3 is under half, no regroup.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
We have to assume crypteks work like Wolf Guard, so:

Q. If a Wolf Guard Pack Leader has joined a unit of Troops,
does that unit cease to be a scoring unit? And does the
Wolf Guard cease to count as an Elite model? (p86)
A. When a Wolf Guard model joins another unit because
of his Pack Leader special rule he becomes part of that
unit to all intents and purposes. For instance, a Pack
Leader that leads a Troops unit will still be able to claim an
objective even if his Troops unit is wiped out – he is
considered to be part of that Troops unit. He would also
still be able to deploy in a mission that only allows Troops
units to be deployed at first.
Conversely, a Pack Leader that leads a Long Fang unit is
counted as part of a Heavy Support choice, and therefore
could not claim an objective, even if under the effects of
Logan Grimnarʼs The Great Wolf special rule. This also
applies to the calculation of kill points and victory points –
the Wolf Guard who have been split off from their original
Wolf Guard unit count as part of their assigned unit in all
respects.

Umm yes there is "if a unit makes a fallback move remove any counters from it" its in the first paragraph of RP.

According to raw since el is treated 'just as you would rp' you don't get to make a roll if the unit the cryptek was in fell back.

Howver if the unit IS falling back and suffers casualties in the opponents turn, then you do get to make RP / EL rolls at that point

nosferatu1001 wrote:Howver if the unit IS falling back and suffers casualties in the opponents turn, then you do get to make RP / EL rolls at that point

Unless they suffer sufficient casualties to have to take a morale check, because they auto-fail that and when they make the fallback move the counters are removed.

jy2 wrote:This situation happened in a game I played.

I had a unit of 5 warriors with 2 crypteks attached (from 2 royal courts). They get assaulted and lose both crypteks + 2 warriors. Survivors then fall back. 1 of the cryptek would get back up from Ever-living.

Now the way that I played it, when the cryptek got back up, the unit falling back was too far away so I played the cryptek as its own unit. Then I played the unit as a unit of 5 warriors (instead of a unit of 7 models) so they were able to test for regrouping because 3 of 5 (or 6 if you count the cryptek that didn' get back up) allowed them to test for regrouping.

Would you say that I played it right, or did I mess up big time? And why? Thanks.

I believe you played it wrong.

The only way the one Cryptek would of been able to return, is if he was placed within 3" of his Ever-Living counter, and in coherency with the unit it was a part of when it was removed as a casualty.

If the Warrior unit fell back more then 5" away from the Cryptek's Ever-Living counter, he could not be placed according to the Ever-Living rule, and would be lost regardless.

If the Warrior unit was wiped out, all you would of needed to do was place the Cryptek model within 3" of his Ever-Living counter, and you would have satisfied the coherency requirement.


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WanderingFox wrote:Umm yes there is "if a unit makes a fallback move remove any counters from it" its in the first paragraph of RP.

According to raw since el is treated 'just as you would rp' you don't get to make a roll if the unit the cryptek was in fell back.

You only remove Reanimation Protocols counters. You do not remove Ever-Living counter.

ToBeWilly wrote:I believe you played it wrong.

The only way the one Cryptek would of been able to return, is if he was placed within 3" of his Ever-Living counter, and in coherency with the unit it was a part of when it was removed as a casualty.

If the Warrior unit fell back more then 5" away from the Cryptek's Ever-Living counter, he could not be placed according to the Ever-Living rule, and would be lost regardless.

If the Warrior unit was wiped out, all you would of needed to do was place the Cryptek model within 3" of his Ever-Living counter, and you would have satisfied the coherency requirement.

This is incorrect, as has already been noted. Everliving models that are part of a squad use the rules for RP. RP says that if a unit falls back you remove all counters (not just RP counters, but all counters). As soon as the unit fell back, his counter disappears and hence doesn't get RP or EL.




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"If the unit makes a fall back move, remove any counters from it" Emphasis mine.

pretre wrote:"If the unit makes a fall back move, remove any counters from it" Emphasis mine.

And as was pointed out the last time this came up, that *must* refer to RP counters only (given context) - or else you're removing wound counters, etc. from the unit as well.

rigeld2 wrote:

pretre wrote:"If the unit makes a fall back move, remove any counters from it" Emphasis mine.

And as was pointed out the last time this came up, that *must* refer to RP counters only (given context) - or else you're removing wound counters, etc. from the unit as well.

Wounds don't use counters. "Keep track of how many wounds such models have suffered on a piece of scrap paper or by placing a dice or marker next to them."

...which is a counter.

nosferatu1001 wrote:...which is a counter.

Where is that said?

The Reanimation Protocols rule never references any other counter then Reanimation Protocol's counters.

Why would you think it would be any other counter?

But EL says to refer to RP for how it works when attached to a unit.

pretre wrote:But EL says to refer to RP for how it works when attached to a unit.

And it also uses EL counters, not RP counters.

And RP says to remove all counters. It doesn't say RP counters.

pretre wrote:And RP says to remove all counters. It doesn't say RP counters.

... so RP refers to RP counters, by context, but you remove every counter that could ever be defined by the rules when you fall back.
That makes sense.

pretre wrote:But EL says to refer to RP for how it works when attached to a unit.

Ever-Living only references Reanimation Protocols for how to roll for the Ever-Living counters, and how to place the model in coherency with a model that did not return by Reanimation Protocols and/or Ever-Living already. That's all.

Reanimation Protocols still never references any other kind of counter. So, it could only be talking about Reanimation Protocols counters.

The english language says they are equivalent

A counter is a marker is a piece of paper. If you are claiming that "counters" is contextless, you also remove wound markers.

nosferatu1001 wrote:The english language says they are equivalent

A counter is a marker is a piece of paper. If you are claiming that "counters" is contextless, you also remove wound markers.

Language arguments never work in 40k. Counter =/ piece of paper. If it ='d piece of paper, they would have said counter.

Either way, if you discount the 'remove all counters' bit, then the cryptek would have reanimated as part of the squad as RP has no range other than coherency with the squad.

pretre wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:The english language says they are equivalent

A counter is a marker is a piece of paper. If you are claiming that "counters" is contextless, you also remove wound markers.

Language arguments never work in 40k. Counter =/ piece of paper. If it ='d piece of paper, they would have said counter.

Either way, if you discount the 'remove all counters' bit, then the cryptek would have reanimated as part of the squad as RP has no range other than coherency with the squad.

Correct - the cryptek should've stood up with the squad.

Also, the squad could have then regrouped since that would have been 4 of 7.

rigeld2 wrote:Correct - the cryptek should've stood up with the squad.

Incorrect. The unit made a fall back move. If that fall back move ended with all the models farther then 5" of the Ever-Living counter, the Cryptec could not be placed, and would be lost.

ToBeWilly wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:Correct - the cryptek should've stood up with the squad.

Incorrect. The unit made a fall back move. If that fall back move ended with all the models farther then 5" of the Ever-Living counter, the Cryptec could not be placed, and would be lost.

Incorrect

There's no distance limitation for the standup from RP which Everliving uses when attached to a unit.
"If the model had joined a unit when it was removed as a casualty, and the roll was passed, it must be returned to play, with a single wound, in coherency with that unit as explained in RP."

"At the end of the phase, after any Morale c hecks have been taken and fall back moves have been made, roll a D6 (blah) ... On a 5 or 6, a necron reassembles itself and continues to fight - return one of the slain models to play with a single wound, placed in coherency with a model from its unit that has not itself returned through RP this phase. Models returning from play in this fashion must be placed at least 1" from enemy models. If the model's unit is engaged in close combat, the model immediately piles in. Models that cannot be placed in this way do not return."

So basically, RP ignores range for rejoining the unit and EL uses RP to stand back up when attached to a unit. So there is no range restriction.

ToBeWilly wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:Correct - the cryptek should've stood up with the squad.

Incorrect. The unit made a fall back move. If that fall back move ended with all the models farther then 5" of the Ever-Living counter, the Cryptec could not be placed, and would be lost.

The 3" is only if there is no unit be stand up in coherence of. If the unit still exists, it just stands up with the unit.

You are right. I take back my previous incorrect statement.

Moral of the story? Bad jy2! No biscuit. Go apologize to your opponent, right now!

nosferatu1001 wrote:...which is a counter.

Even if you use piece of scrap paper, that never get put on the table? Seem more like a note of how many wounds the models taking. So wouldn't the dice or marker just be a "note" you keep on the table? Instead of a counter?

Its a matt ward dex... no one has any clue what he really meant :/

WanderingFox wrote:Its a matt ward dex... no one has any clue what he really meant :/

Thank you for your keen insight into the matter. You have truly added to the conversation.