Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Me and my friend were talking about the tyranids the other day. And we came to the conclusion that they would be actually quite vulnerable in space. So there ships are made out of flesh (bassically) so why dosent the imperium launch some kind bio weapon at them like nurgles rot or something along that line? Does it mention anywhere in the lore of them trying this?

I know they have used virus bombs on tyranids before, only for new breeds to arise which were immune to, and had harnessed the virus bombs payload. I would imagine they are reticent to provide the Tyranids with further ideas.

tyranid ships aren't actually that weak.
I can't remember exactly, but I think it said in somewhere in the BFG rules that they are pretty damn resilient.

The Imperium regularly uses biological warfare. Problem is the Tyranids always adapt and use countermeasures.

You'd think genetically at least the Orks would be more vulnerable to biological warfare than Tyranids since they cannot evolve at the same pace.

The Imperium doesn't use Bio weapons at the behest of the Ordo Xenos because of the risk of the Nids adapting the bio weapon against them. They did it once and the results were not pretty.

The only times Virus Bombs have been used was when Exterminatus was declared on a few worlds and there was no chance a Nid could escape and allow the Hive Mind to evolve a counter measure.

DemetriDominov wrote:You'd think genetically at least the Orks would be more vulnerable to biological warfare than Tyranids since they cannot evolve at the same pace.

Technically they can... or rather they could if they were a sexually reproducing species i'm not sure if we're told this or not...
People think evolution requires thousands and thousands of years but all it actually requires is many generations.
That's why bacteria can evolve quickly... fruit flies too...

However, if they aren't sexual reproducers then they'd be easily wiped out by a genetic plague of some sort...

purplefood wrote:

DemetriDominov wrote:You'd think genetically at least the Orks would be more vulnerable to biological warfare than Tyranids since they cannot evolve at the same pace.

Technically they can... or rather they could if they were a sexually reproducing species i'm not sure if we're told this or not...
People think evolution requires thousands and thousands of years but all it actually requires is many generations.
That's why bacteria can evolve quickly... fruit flies too...

However, if they aren't sexual reproducers then they'd be easily wiped out by a genetic plague of some sort...

But that's exactly what I'm saying, Orks are genetic clones of each other that divide asexually through their fungal spores, they don't really have genetic diversity for that reason.

DemetriDominov wrote:

purplefood wrote:

DemetriDominov wrote:You'd think genetically at least the Orks would be more vulnerable to biological warfare than Tyranids since they cannot evolve at the same pace.

Technically they can... or rather they could if they were a sexually reproducing species i'm not sure if we're told this or not...
People think evolution requires thousands and thousands of years but all it actually requires is many generations.
That's why bacteria can evolve quickly... fruit flies too...

However, if they aren't sexual reproducers then they'd be easily wiped out by a genetic plague of some sort...

But that's exactly what I'm saying, Orks are genetic clones of each other that divide asexually through their fungal spores, they don't really have genetic diversity for that reason.

Well we aren't told whether they are asexual or not...
It's reasonable to assume they are but it's possible they aren't.
Fungi can be both and apparently that's what Orks are...

Orks ARE a bio weapon.

They were developed by the Old Ones to combat the Necrons, unfortunantly they were too late to save the Old Ones. So now they just krump everything that isn't orky and alot that is.

Why waste time with biological weapons when normal ordnance is much more efficient?

Tyranids would adapt to normal diseases (though they'd probably sustain heavy losses). The Imperium can't engineer new bioweapons as fast as Tyranids adapt to them. Furthemore, supernatural diseases like Nurgle's Rots that would be difficult to evolve to are banned by the Imperium because of HERESY.

Grey Templar wrote:Orks ARE a bio weapon.

They were developed by the Old Ones to combat the Necrons, unfortunantly they were too late to save the Old Ones. So now they just krump everything that isn't orky and alot that is.

The three most powerful species in 40k are bioweapons; Eldar, Humans, and Orks. True, only ancestral Humans were around during the War in Heaven, but still, they were designed and created by the same people.

KingDeath wrote:Why waste time with biological weapons when normal ordnance is much more efficient?

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but biological warfare, whether caused naturally or by war has hands down caused the most death and destruction in all of history.

DemetriDominov wrote:

KingDeath wrote:Why waste time with biological weapons when normal ordnance is much more efficient?

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but biological warfare, whether caused naturally or by war has hands down caused the most death and destruction in all of history.

The problem with that comparison is that Ordnance has not been around for all of history!

It's like saying that swords are more efficient than guns because swords killed more people - it might have something to do with the fact that the sword has some 10,000 years on the gun.

DemetriDominov wrote:

KingDeath wrote:Why waste time with biological weapons when normal ordnance is much more efficient?

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but biological warfare, whether caused naturally or by war has hands down caused the most death and destruction in all of history.

Whether or not it would be more or less effective against other species is a different thing entirely...
Against a Human analogue it would be devastating.
Against Orks it could be genocidal or merely a respite, though if properly managed afterwards could be very useful for the Imperium.
Against Tyranids... Not a good idea at all... If 1 survives it the Nids would become immune and then turn it on the Imperium themselves and the best bio-weapons are the ones without cures...

purplefood wrote:
Well we aren't told whether they are asexual or not...

Yes, we are. They reproduce through shedding spores constantly.

Also, if you count Xenology, Orks don't have sexes(or reproductive organs) and only identify with "male" gender stereotypes thanks to their society.

Platuan4th wrote:

purplefood wrote:
Well we aren't told whether they are asexual or not...

Yes, we are. They reproduce through shedding spores constantly.

So do ferns, but they're hardly asexual.

"Boy" in the context of Ork society is gender neutral.

If they have anything at all that would be analogous to gender it would be their class distinctions of Boy, Nob, and Boss. The different subspecies would also fall into this catagory.

Platuan4th wrote:

purplefood wrote:
Well we aren't told whether they are asexual or not...

Yes, we are. They reproduce through shedding spores constantly.

Also, if you count Xenology, Orks don't have sexes and only identify with "male" gender stereotypes thanks to their society.

Yeah I've been looking at something else... Never mind.
A genetically targeted bio-weapon against the Orks would be devastating...
Because they're all identical they'd all be just as vulnerable.
The chance of a mutation giving immunity is... well not a lot to say the least.
Ideally the bio-weapon would be in the form of a plague that sterilised the Ork spores before it killed the Ork itself.
Then you'd have to burn the bodies to stop the Nids getting to the available biomass...

Unit1126PLL wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

purplefood wrote:
Well we aren't told whether they are asexual or not...

Yes, we are. They reproduce through shedding spores constantly.

So do ferns, but they're hardly asexual.

By definition, Spores are units of asexual reproduction.

"spore, a reproductive cell capable of developing into a new individual without fusion with another reproductive cell. Spores thus differ from gametes, which are reproductive cells that must fuse in pairs in order to give rise to a new individual. Spores are agents of asexual reproduction, whereas gametes are agents of sexual reproduction."

Yeah, I believe Fern's things are called spores erroniously. They would actually be seeds.

Yeah though Fungi can reproduce sexually they can't do it through spores.
Spores are asexual only for a fungus...
Which basically helps prove the Orks were a bio-weapon (No pesky mutations or evolution changing their bio-weapon) but at the same time a single genetic plague would wipe the entire race...
Not really a good idea to be totally honest...

Grey Templar wrote:Yeah, I believe Fern's things are called spores erroniously. They would actually be seeds.

Certain species of plants and fungi are capable of switching between asexual(thus giving off spores) and sexual(thus giving off seeds or similar).

However, Ork reproductive detritus is only ever referred to as spores and thus indicates a purely asexual reproduction, as does their utter lack of reproductive organs.

That is...
A really big plot hole...
It's hard to believe no one even tried to design a little number to try and rinse the Orks...
The Orks must have one hell of an immune system for that not to work but even that could be overcome easily enough...

Perhaps each "Clan" of Orks has its own, slightly tweaked genetic marker?

Giving a genetic predisposition towards, say, DRIVING FAST or SURGERY or TECHNOLOGY or KRUMPIN' HEADS...

...actually the last one was pretty universal.

Even then you need like what? 12 different variations?
They would have to be tailored but if you're fighting the war to end all wars you can probably find the resources to do it...

Unit1126PLL wrote:

DemetriDominov wrote:

KingDeath wrote:Why waste time with biological weapons when normal ordnance is much more efficient?

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but biological warfare, whether caused naturally or by war has hands down caused the most death and destruction in all of history.

The problem with that comparison is that Ordnance has not been around for all of history!

It's like saying that swords are more efficient than guns because swords killed more people - it might have something to do with the fact that the sword has some 10,000 years on the gun.

The problem is that biological weapons that exist in reality are far more devastating to a population than even nuclear weapons, the height of all man made ordinance. A single nuke can level a city. A single strand of militarily modified smallpox, just one cell, can easily cause the extinction of all mankind.

For the whole special disease annihilating the orks discussion, its already been tried. And it worked WELL

TheAngrySquig wrote:For the whole special disease annihilating the orks discussion, its already been tried. And it worked WELL

Clearly not well enough.
Properly made a disease of this type would have the potential to wipe Orks out totally...