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So, this is something I see people arguing about, so I wanted to start a thread here about it.

Infantry platoons have traditionally worked differently than most units in the game, especially when it comes to things like reserves. In fact, until it was FAQed, the guard codex used to say...

Each Infantry Platoon counts as a single Troops choice on the force organization chart when deploying, and is rolled for collectively when rolling for reserves

Put another way, you really should thing about an infantry platoon as a single unit until the models are actually on the table.

Now, they came by and FAQed this. The rule was replaced by this:

Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place of a single unit in missions that limit the number units that can be deployed. In addition when making a reserve or outflanking roll, roll once for the whole Infantry Platoon. Any units in reserve that are embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead rolled for separately.

Now, many people make the note that none of the regular missions limit the number of units that can be deployed, therefore, practically speaking, the rule is actually

when making a reserve or outflanking roll, roll once for the whole Infantry Platoon. Any units in reserve that are embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead rolled for separately.

Although you could easily make a strong argument for the first sentence of this version to be chopped away as well, as it does rather depend on the condition of the actual first sentence being true.

Anyways, this is used to make the argument that the various parts of an infantry platoon are always separate units. This means, for example, that you could put a PCS in reserves (and throw it into a vendetta, say), and start the PISs all on the table if you wanted.

This however, creates problems. The most notable of which is that, if they're separate units then they're separate units - including for FOC. An infantry platoon must contain at least 3 troops choices. After all, the rule that said they weren't has been done away with.

Which, of course, is seriously problematic. For example, it's only possible to take 6 troops choices, but the codex allows you to take up to 14 different units in an infantry platoon, which makes no sense, as you'd only be able to put 6 in your list. Also, it's absurd to think that you can field more veterans in a guard army than you can field regular troopers. It also basically single-handedly destroys decades of the way infantry platoons have always worked, but also completely screws over foot guard armies.

In order for this not to be a problem, infantry platoons have to count as a single entity, just like they always have. A single entity, however, can not do things like deploy part of itself in reserves and part of itself on the board. It's the same reason why you can't take a 10-man tac squad in a drop pod and start the game with a combat squad of five of them in the pod, and the other five of them on the board. The tac squad is a single entity, and must be deployed, and rolled from reserves, as such. Only once it hits the table can the unit then be split up.

Probably the best way to handle this is to throw out the part of the FAQ that makes no sense whatsoever (especially since it was written for a different rules edition in which we no longer play), and use the original ruling in the codex. Because, really, you're stuck with two options here - each unit is separate, but infantry platoons are basically unplayable, or each unit is part of the same entity, in which case you can't split them up for reserves.

 Ailaros wrote:
Probably the best way to handle this is to throw out the part of the FAQ that makes no sense whatsoever (especially since it was written for a different rules edition in which we no longer play), and use the original ruling in the codex. Because, really, you're stuck with two options here - each unit is separate, but infantry platoons are basically unplayable, or each unit is part of the same entity, in which case you can't split them up for reserves.

No, the best way to play it is NOT to just ignore the errata you don't like. The best way to play it is to play it exactly as the errata states:

1) Infantry platoons each occupy a single FOC slot, since the various units are sub-categories of the "Infantry Platoon" troops choice.

2) Infantry platoons are treated as individual units within the game, just like every other situation where multiple units are chosen as part of the same FOC slot.

3) In missions in which there are limits on how many units you may deploy (which don't exist at the moment in the standard rules) an entire infantry platoon replaces a single troops choice that you are entitled to deploy.

4) Since there is no rule suggesting that in other missions infantry platoons have special rules for determining how their component units are placed (or not placed) into reserve they follow the standard rules for placing units in reserve (IOW, 50% of your units, dedicated transports combine with a unit, etc).

It all depends on the context in which you look at the FAQ ruling. Once deployed on the board they are separate units but separate units can still occupy a single slot in the force organization chart:

3 Sniper drone units in the Tau codex for 1 heavy slot.
2 Space Wolves HQ for 1 HQ slot in the Space Wolf codex.

Recently in an FAQ they allowed you to combat squad in reserves as well for Space Marines - 5 in a razor back 5 outside thus creating 2 units out of 1 in reserves.

Now one issue you did not look at is if you take an infantry platoon and place them in non-dedicated transports like vendettas. With 5 platoon squads and a platoon command squad using the normal rules rolling for reserves once for an infantry platoon you could have a total of 6 vendettas (2 squads fo 3 or 3 squads of 2, etc etc) come in from reserves the same time as an entire platoon being rolled for at once. This is the caveat that was put into place by the FAQ to prevent shenanigans like this and being able to pull more units in rather than a single infantry platoon.

Now a better question is how many units does it actually count for when staying in reserves since you can only have half your army in reserves (not including flyers etc that are required to be in reserves). Does it count as 1? Does each unit count as 1 (for a minimum of 2/3 depending on combined squads).

Peregrine wrote:Infantry platoons each occupy a single FOC slot

Where does it say this?

Peregrine wrote: Infantry platoons are treated as individual units within the game

Where does it say this?

rogueeyes wrote:separate units can still occupy a single slot in the force organization chart

Where in the guard codex does it say that you can do this with infantry platoons?

rogueeyes wrote:Recently in an FAQ they allowed you to combat squad in reserves as well for Space Marines - 5 in a razor back 5 outside thus creating 2 units out of 1 in reserves.

Well, if only we were playing space marines.

"Hey guys, the FAQ ruling is an edition old, better throw it out."

...wut?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:

Peregrine wrote:Infantry platoons each occupy a single FOC slot

Where does it say this?

Peregrine wrote: Infantry platoons are treated as individual units within the game

Where does it say this?

The codex.

It's the same reason why you can't take a 10-man tac squad in a drop pod and start the game with a combat squad of five of them in the pod, and the other five of them on the board.

There is no such rule. Using the combat squads rule creates two separate units which then follow the normal rules for reserves.

TheCaptain wrote:The codex.

Where in the codex?

If you're referring to the second sentence under infantry platoons on page 96, that sentence doesn't exist anymore. Treat it as if it doesn't exist. It's been replaced by something else.

 Ailaros wrote:

Peregrine wrote:Infantry platoons each occupy a single FOC slot

Where does it say this?

Where it uses the standard formatting for a unit for "Infantry Platoon", and a different formatting style for each sub-unit.

Peregrine wrote: Infantry platoons are treated as individual units within the game

Where does it say this?

Where it gives them each individual profiles as separate units.

And where is that?

Seriously. Page number. Paragraph.

The only time when a guard unit is referenced as a single FOC choice was long ago when there was a different rule in place. The rules as they are now make no mention of an infantry platoon being part of the same FOC.

 Peregrine wrote:

It's the same reason why you can't take a 10-man tac squad in a drop pod and start the game with a combat squad of five of them in the pod, and the other five of them on the board.

There is no such rule. Using the combat squads rule creates two separate units which then follow the normal rules for reserves.

Carry over from 5th edition when you didn't CS until you were actually on the board. While in reserves SM squads stuck together. In 6th edition it was changed that they CS at Deployment.

 Ailaros wrote:
The only time when a guard unit is referenced as a single FOC choice was long ago when there was a different rule in place. The rules as they are now make no mention of an infantry platoon being part of the same FOC.

Read the codex. It's incredibly obvious to anyone who pays attention that "Infantry Platoon" and "Platoon Command Squad" use different formatting that clearly identifies one as a sub-category within the other.

And if that doesn't make it more obvious, the "Composition:" underneath the unit title makes it perfectly clear that this is a single troops choice composed of multiple independent sub-units. And that sentence was NOT removed by the errata.

 Ailaros wrote:
And where is that?

Seriously. Page number. Paragraph.

The only time when a guard unit is referenced as a single FOC choice was long ago when there was a different rule in place. The rules as they are now make no mention of an infantry platoon being part of the same FOC.

Page 96 of the IG Codex, where it tells you the composition of an Infantry Platoon. Or does a 5 man squad of SM take up 5 slots in the FOC as well?

Peregrine wrote: And that sentence was NOT removed by the errata.

The sentence underneath the composition was the ONLY thing removed by the errata.

Seriously, look at the errata, it starts with "Page 96 – Infantry Platoon, second sentence
Change to:"

 Ailaros wrote:

Peregrine wrote: And that sentence was NOT removed by the errata.

The sentence underneath the composition was the ONLY thing removed by the errata.

Seriously, look at the errata, it starts with "Page 96 – Infantry Platoon, second sentence
Change to:"

Why are you quoting and disagreeing? That's exactly what I just said:

The first sentence, "Composition: 1 PCS ... " remains as printed.

The second sentence, "Each Infantry Platoon ..." is removed and replaced with the new statement in the errata.

The first sentence alone is enough to tell you that an Infantry Platoon is a single troops choice from the FOC, and it is composed of multiple independent units.

Yeah. I came to that realization, too. An infantry platoon consists, at a minimum, of one command squad and two infantry squads. Together, they count as one troops choice.

On the other hand, if you want to have up to 5 infantry squads, up to 5 Heavy Weapons Squads, up to 2 special weapons squads, and a single Conscripts Squad, and they all count as one very expensive troops choice.

The entire answer to your question is on page 96. It states, "Each Infantry Platoon counts as a single Troops choice on the force organization chart when deploying, and is rolled for collectively when rolling for reserves."

However, a Veteran Squad counts as a single troops choice, as does a Penal Legion Squad.

 Bonecrusher 6 wrote:
The entire answer to your question is on page 96. It states, "Each Infantry Platoon counts as a single Troops choice on the force organization chart when deploying, and is rolled for collectively when rolling for reserves."

Re-read the OP. That statement on page 96 no longer exists, and has been replaced with a new one. That's why this thread exists, the OP doesn't like the new rule and wants to find an excuse to go back to how it used to work.

Bonecrusher wrote:The entire answer to your question is on page 96. It states, "Each Infantry Platoon counts as a single Troops choice on the force organization chart when deploying, and is rolled for collectively when rolling for reserves."

A sentence which the FAQ deleted. That above quoted sentence isn't a rule anymore. It's been replaced by something else.

Peregrine wrote:The first sentence alone is enough to tell you that an Infantry Platoon is a single troops choice from the FOC

No it isn't. It's why they had to have the rule stating that they were all part of the same FOC in the first place.

The rule book talks about FOC choices by "units", so if you have three different units, you have three different FOC choices. They do say that sometimes there are exceptions to this, and when there are exceptions, you have to read your codex carefully for the explanation.

The guard codex USED to explain that they were a part of the same FOC, but they don't any more. As such, you've got to take it as a troops choice that compels you to take other troops choices, not a single troops choice with other units. In this case, the composition tells you what the ratio of conscript and HWSs to PISs and PCSs are, something unrelated to FOC.

I got it, now... I forgot about the FAQ part.

Page 96 – Infantry Platoon, second sentence
Change to: “Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place of a
single unit in missions that limit the number units that can be
deployed. In addition when making a reserve or outflanking
roll, roll once for the whole Infantry Platoon. Any units in
reserve that are embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are
instead rolled for separately.”

Yeah, that does add an element of confusion... It seems to say that the Platoon is still deployed as a single troops choice and played that way, unless there happens to have been a squad placed into a transport during the game. This seems to be a reference to Ongoing Reserves.

Unless I'm mistaken, which is a distinct possibility, a unit can't enter the game for the first time in a transport that is not dedicated. Am I right, or am I missing something here?

You mean this one:

Page 96 – Infantry Platoon, second sentence
Change to: “Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place of a
single unit in missions that limit the number units that can be
deployed. In addition when making a reserve or outflanking
roll, roll once for the whole Infantry Platoon. Any units in
reserve that are embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are
instead rolled for separately.”

Which makes the entire rule:

INFANTRY PLATOON
Composition: X Platoon Command Squad, X-Y Infantry Squads, X-Y Heavy Weapons Squads, X-Y Special Weapons Squads and X-Y Conscripts Squad. Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place of a single unit in missions that limit the number units that can be deployed. In addition when making a reserve or outflanking roll, roll once for the whole Infantry Platoon. Any units in reserve that are embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead rolled for separately.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bonecrusher 6 wrote:
I got it, now... I forgot about the FAQ part.

Page 96 – Infantry Platoon, second sentence
Change to: “Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place of a
single unit in missions that limit the number units that can be
deployed. In addition when making a reserve or outflanking
roll, roll once for the whole Infantry Platoon. Any units in
reserve that are embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are
instead rolled for separately.”

Yeah, that does add an element of confusion... It seems to say that the Platoon is still deployed as a single troops choice and played that way, unless there happens to have been a squad placed into a transport during the game. This seems to be a reference to Ongoing Reserves.

Unless I'm mistaken, which is a distinct possibility, a unit can't enter the game for the first time in a transport that is not dedicated. Am I right, or am I missing something here?

If a transport is dedicated, only the unit (and attached ICs) can start the game embarked upon it. If the transport is non-dedicated (such as a Land Raider as a Heavy Support Choice) any legal unit can start embarked.

Right, they're only deployed as a single unit in missions that have a restriction that no longer exists in 6th ed. The FAQ rule is obsolete, but it still carries into a new rules edition. That said, this isn't the first time when GW released an FAQ after a major change (such as a new codex, or a new rules edition), where the "grandfathered" FAQ entries (much less new ones) were blatantly false and confusing.

As for the whole composition thing, the only other time it's mentioned in the codex is towards the back when it says things that begin with "Composition: a vehicle squadron consisting off..."

In this case, the only thing that the "composition" is clarifying is a goofy way in which a single unit is put together. If you want to make the same argument for infantry platoons, then we're in a world of them being a single unit, which means, FAQ or no, it has to all go in reserves, or all be deployed, because it's a single unit - something which the FAQ doesn't change.

Of course, you'd also have to make the argument that they can't operate independently of each other too. Just another reason I don't buy the composition argument in favor of them being split up, or split up sometimes, and not split up other times. It's too weak to say anything in and of itself.

The Platoon is made up of a minimum of three different units, just as a selection of Tau Pathfinders from the Tau codex is made up of a minimum of two separate units (the squad and their mandatory transport).

They're still separate units.

 Ailaros wrote:
No it isn't. It's why they had to have the rule stating that they were all part of the same FOC in the first place.

That was just a redundant statement for the sake of clarity. It wasn't necessary, it just made it easier to understand for the kind of people who "frequently" ask questions like "my codex says a melta gun is 10 points, can I buy one for 2 points instead?".

The guard codex USED to explain that they were a part of the same FOC, but they don't any more.

It still does. The various elements of the platoon do not have the heading formatting used for an individual FOC selection, therefore they can not be separate choices. Seriously, read the codex and pay attention to details.

Normally, I would side with Ailaros here but reading over it I think it's fairly obvious that the Platoons are still meant to all be one FOC selection not all separate choices. The codex, while the sentence may have been changed, still has it all formatted to be one choice. You buy everything in one choice, not separate choices. I may be a bit confused on your exact argument and question though, so please excuse me if I am.

I have always read it as they have to deploy together, and all be kept in reserves together, as they act as one unit in that sense but once they hit the table everything is independent.

Because of the FAQ ruling, if I put part of my platoon in a non-dedicated transport, they are rolled separately for reserve purposes.

So lets say I have a platoon with just one command squad and two infantry squads. I've also got a single Vendetta. The Vendetta is of course non-dedicated and must start in reserves. Can I therefore deploy the two infantry squads normally, so the game starts with them on the board, but put the command squad in the Vendetta, and start rolling for it separately to come in from reserve on turn two?

Yes, otherwise you could bring up to 9 vendettas with 1 reserve roll...

I disagree that the 6 standard missions don't have a limit to what you can deploy. The limit is 2 HQ, 6 troops, 3 HS, 3 FA, 3 Elite. So in essence, the errata is simply re-stating that they are treated as one unit for deployment in missions that limit the number of units you can deploy, ie every mission in the BRB. In non-standard missions where you might agree with your opponent to disregard the FoC, then the distinction is moot.

ChaosDog wrote:
Can I therefore deploy the two infantry squads normally, so the game starts with them on the board, but put the command squad in the Vendetta, and start rolling for it separately to come in from reserve on turn two?

Yes. That's exactly how it works.

Nivek5150 wrote:
I disagree that the 6 standard missions don't have a limit to what you can deploy. The limit is 2 HQ, 6 troops, 3 HS, 3 FA, 3 Elite. So in essence, the errata is simply re-stating that they are treated as one unit for deployment in missions that limit the number of units you can deploy, ie every mission in the BRB. In non-standard missions where you might agree with your opponent to disregard the FoC, then the distinction is moot.

Err, no. The FOC limits what you can have in your army, it doesn't say anything about what you are permitted to deploy. For example, in a single-FOC game a space marine player can take six tactical squads (6 troops), combat squad them all, and deploy 12 units of troops at the start of the game. A Space Wolves player that uses their "double HQ" option may deploy four HQ units at the start of the game. Etc.

The errata is talking about something like a special "ambush the patrol" mission where one player deploys a fast attack choice and a troops choice and has to put the rest of their units in reserve. In that situation you could deploy a single veteran squad for your troops choice, or an entire platoon (which, by the errata, replaces a single troops choice that you can/must deploy). However, since there are no standard missions that use a rule like this, the errata only applies to special games where non-standard missions are used.

In any case, I think it's pretty obvious an Infantry Platoon is a single Troops choice, and is treated as a single unit for deployment and reserve rolls excepting those that are embarked. By the OP's own admission, the way he's attempting to interpret it completely breaks the game, so Occam's Razor seems pretty significant here.

Ailaros, the deleted sentence on page 96 didn't actually say anything about whether the infantry platoon counted as one choice or several for the purposes of creating a legal army. It only talked about how to treat the infantry platoon for the purposes of deployment. So as far as writing a legal list, the errata you're talking about didn't change anything. If infantry platoons counted as single choices for the purposes of army composition before, they still do.

My view on this whole matter is that "You should play the way you want to that is accepted by the people you play with." The Game store I frequent says the house rule on guard platoons is that they act independently unless grouped by Combined Squad. So I always roll for each unit for reserves, even when I want it all at the same time. House Rule is second to BRB, but in confusing cases just ask and be ruled on by an independent or just roll for it.
If the FAQs are out dated go back to the codex. Follow what makes the most sense or what the house rule is.