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If I have Preferred Enemy: Space Marines for example, and I shoot at a unit that is mixed Tau and Space Marine (Say a Farsight/shadowsun bomb with an allied Space Marine Librarian being used to gate them around), how does Preferred Enemy work when I shoot at that unit? It contains a Space Marine model within the target.. do I get the benefits of Preferred Enemy?

No as in your example it is a Tau unit still, if the reverse was the example, Tau commander in SM unit then yes you would.

MarkyMark wrote:
No as in your example it is a Tau unit still, if the reverse was the example, Tau commander in SM unit then yes you would.

would he get the preferred enemy rule if the spacemarine was not in cover and the tau are in cover and he used the focus fire rule on the marine?

You target/roll to-hit against units, focus fire deals with which models wounds can be allocated to.

Even if you focus fire on the marine, it's still a Tau unit (in the case where a marine character joins a Tau unit).

MarkyMark wrote:
No as in your example it is a Tau unit still, if the reverse was the example, Tau commander in SM unit then yes you would.

Could you perhaps give me the page-numbers of the rules?
I don't see how you come to that conclusion.

All units have a type, an IC joining it doesn't create a hybrid or mixed type unit. The IC becomes 'for all rules purposes' part of the unit. No mention is made of the unit changing its type.

So a Tau IC joining a SM unit doesn't make it a Tau unit, it stays SM.
Reversely a SM IC joining a Tau unit doesn't make it a SM unit, it stays Tau.

Kangodo wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
No as in your example it is a Tau unit still, if the reverse was the example, Tau commander in SM unit then yes you would.

Could you perhaps give me the page-numbers of the rules?
I don't see how you come to that conclusion.

I would like to see this also.

What codex are you choosing the first unit from?, Is it a Tau codex?. Then its a Tau unit, Preferred enemy states if it has a specfic type then you are PE against that specfic type of Foe. Lets take CSM they have PE Space marines. Now are you shooting at space marines as they contain one model that is a space marine, or are you shooting at Tau with a space marine in it.

For reference, see page 39, the block about Independent Characters, specifically the last sentence of the first column.

What about, say, a tau IC joined to an SM IC?

It's pretty clear, the IC joining another unit becomes part of that unit.

In this case both ICs are a unit.

The wording is vague (no suprise) but it says when an IC joins a unit he becomes a member of that unit for all rules purposes.
Many people take that to mean that the space marine would be considered to be a Tau at that point and stops being a space marine (which is almost as silly as a space marine joining a Tau unit to begin with) and you can follow that logic to allow an Allied IC to enter a transport when attached to a unit, the rulebook forbids it explicitly but hey.
The preferred enemy special rule is just as vague and says when "attacking it's preferred enemy" both shooting and close combat. It doesn't even specify unit or model or whatever so good luck making much of an arguement either way.

Edit: note the definition of a unit doesn't say anything about a unit belonging a codex either it just has it as a collection of Models

Commander R'alai has Preferred Enemy (Independent Character)

How would that work?

It wouldn't work, since Independent Character is a Special Rule, not a unit type. Characters usually have the type Infantry (Character), I think?
And it's not the unit name/codex name/army name either, in the case of Preferred Enemy (Space Marines) and such.

Still, I guess the intent is clear. If he shoots at a lone IC he gets Preferred Enemy.

The quedtion.is, what happens if the unit consists of 1 IC joining another IC to make a unit of 2? For example, Librarian joins a Battlesuit commander?

Then the model that "joined" the unit is the one that becomes a normal member for all rules purposes. So Tau joining SM makes the Tau "SM", and vice versa.

Had this discussion previously, from memory.

That discussion has come up many times and the conclusion doesn't make any sense, "Becomes a member of that unit" doesn't give blanket permision to pick up that units traits, no where in the rule book does it say that it does, simply that they are a member.
Also you join a unit that has wargear listed for that unit, well he is member right so he has that wargear by the same logic. So if the tau becomes a member of a tac unit, he gets grenades and power armor and a bolter that the unit has right? no.

Definition of a unit is models grouped together (to work together) find me any rules referrence that says otherwise.

Preferred enemy doesn't even say when targeting a unit, it simple says "When attacking their preferred enemy"

Kisada II wrote:
That discussion has come up many times and the conclusion doesn't make any sense, "Becomes a member of that unit" doesn't give blanket permision to pick up that units traits, no where in the rule book does it say that it does, simply that they are a member.

No, it says they're a normal member. There's a slight but important difference.
And you *can* gain traits when joining a unit, depending on how the rule is worded.

Also you join a unit that has wargear listed for that unit, well he is member right so he has that wargear by the same logic. So if the tau becomes a member of a tac unit, he gets grenades and power armor and a bolter that the unit has right? no.

No because wargear is model based, not unit based. Some wargear benefits the unit as a whole, however, and the IC would benefit from that.

Definition of a unit is models grouped together (to work together) find me any rules referrence that says otherwise.

How is that relevant?

Preferred enemy doesn't even say when targeting a unit, it simple says "When attacking their preferred enemy"

And how does one attack in 40k?

I do not have access to everything right now but wasn't there a FAQ detailing when R'alai's Preferred enemy (independent characters) would be applied that would also be valid for this original question?

rigeld2 wrote:

Kisada II wrote:
That discussion has come up many times and the conclusion doesn't make any sense, "Becomes a member of that unit" doesn't give blanket permision to pick up that units traits, no where in the rule book does it say that it does, simply that they are a member.

No, it says they're a normal member. There's a slight but important difference.
Rule book reference on this difference?
And you *can* gain traits when joining a unit, depending on how the rule is worded.
Provide Reference to the IC gaining the traits

Also you join a unit that has wargear listed for that unit, well he is member right so he has that wargear by the same logic. So if the tau becomes a member of a tac unit, he gets grenades and power armor and a bolter that the unit has right? no.

No because wargear is model based, not unit based. Some wargear benefits the unit as a whole, however, and the IC would benefit from that.
everything is Model based that is my point

Definition of a unit is models grouped together (to work together) find me any rules referrence that says otherwise.

How is that relevant?
Because you're claiming joining a unit alters the character itself and there isn't a definition that says a unit can't be a mixed unit (it infact implies the opposite, you have a unit of space marine members that has a tau member)

Preferred enemy doesn't even say when targeting a unit, it simple says "When attacking their preferred enemy"

And how does one attack in 40k?
For shooting, By fist choosing a target that has at least one model in line of sight to at least one model in your unit, so if you have preferred enemy to the model choosen ....

Kisada II wrote:
Provide Reference to the IC gaining the traits

How about Prefered Enemy? Seems a relevent rule.
"A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule.."
If the unit has it, but not the IC, then the IC gains the benefit.

everything is Model based that is my point

No it isn't. You target Units for shooting for example, not models.

For shooting, By fist choosing a target that has at least one model in line of sight to at least one model in your unit, so if you have preferred enemy to the model choosen ....

Kisada II wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Kisada II wrote:
That discussion has come up many times and the conclusion doesn't make any sense, "Becomes a member of that unit" doesn't give blanket permision to pick up that units traits, no where in the rule book does it say that it does, simply that they are a member.

No, it says they're a normal member. There's a slight but important difference.
Rule book reference on this difference?

First of all, it's more polite not to respond inside the quote - no matter how distinctive you make it look, it looks like I responded to myself.
Second - apologies, the "normal" word carried over from 5th edition.
In 6th, he's a member of the unit for all rules purposes. All. Not some. This is at the bottom left of the IC rules on page 39.

And you *can* gain traits when joining a unit, depending on how the rule is worded.
Provide Reference to the IC gaining the traits

Any rule that says "the unit gains" the benefit.

Also you join a unit that has wargear listed for that unit, well he is member right so he has that wargear by the same logic. So if the tau becomes a member of a tac unit, he gets grenades and power armor and a bolter that the unit has right? no.

No because wargear is model based, not unit based. Some wargear benefits the unit as a whole, however, and the IC would benefit from that.
everything is Model based that is my point

Absolutely false. Line of sight is model based, USRs can be either unit or model based.

Definition of a unit is models grouped together (to work together) find me any rules referrence that says otherwise.

How is that relevant?
Because you're claiming joining a unit alters the character itself and there isn't a definition that says a unit can't be a mixed unit (it infact implies the opposite, you have a unit of space marine members that has a tau member)

What?
No, joining a unit does not change the character in any way. I've never - ever - said that it does.
But if you're treating the IC as anything but a member of the unit for ALL rules purposes, you're breaking a rule.

Preferred enemy doesn't even say when targeting a unit, it simple says "When attacking their preferred enemy"

And how does one attack in 40k?
For shooting, By fist choosing a target that has at least one model in line of sight to at least one model in your unit, so if you have preferred enemy to the model choosen ....

How about if a model with Prefferred Enemy: Beasts targets a unit of Kroot Carnivoires (Infantry) with Kroothounds (Beasts). What happens then?

For that matter, Prefferred Enemy Monstrous Creatures attacking a Riptide (Monstrous Creature (Jet Pack)) and Shielded Missile Drones (Infantry (Jet Pack)).

RAW it's an Infantry unit and a MC unit (respectively).
Upgrades don't change the unit type unless specified.

It's one unit when you roll to hit and wound though.

And?

What about in the case of precision shots? If you roll to hit with sixes and you choose to allocate those wounds to a preferred enemy IC in a mixed unit, you would not benefit from the preferred enemy rule?

No. Preferred enemy applies to the target unit, not individual models.

Wasn't trying to be impolite was posting from a phone.

A rule that says it benefits the whole unit doesn't mean every member has the rule / trait. If all the members with the rule die they take the rule with them.

And no USRs are not model or unit based. They are all model based with effects that can benefit the whole unit etc.

Preferred enemy doesn't say target unit. That is the problem.

rigeld2 wrote:
No. Preferred enemy applies to the target unit, not individual models.

So what's the unit type of the target unit when the unit is a Riptide (Monstrous Creature, Jet Pack) and 2 Sheilded Missile Drones (Infantry, Jet Pack)? Does an attacker with Preffered Enemy (Monstrous Creatures) still benefit on the to Hit and to Wound rerolls against the unit? What about Monster Hunters?

What's the unit type when the target unit is 10 Kroot Carnivoires (Infantry) and 10 Kroot Hounds (Beasts)? Does Preferred Enemy (Beasts) get its rerolls?