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Hi everyone,

As we're now in the last round of this rotation of 12 painting challenges, I wanted to get some feedback and share a few thoughts before heading into the next rotation. Personally, I'm still amazed by how well the concept has taken off, and how many people have got behind it, but there is of course room to make it even better going into its second year, so I'm about to throw out a few ideas to improve the challenges, please feel free to chip in with your own thoughts on anything you think could be implemented or changed regarding the challenges.

Scoring
If only one thing changes in the next rotation, I think it'll be the scoring; the initial scoring method was set up with the expectation of a dozen or so entries per month, and thus, bonus points for placing were awarded only to the top 3 entrants. By the time it became apparent that we'd be regularly seeing 30 or more entries, it was a little too late to change that, but going forward, I definitely think a greater proportion of people should be getting the extra points; there's often 6-8 painters far out ahead of the field, and every time I wish I could award them the points the voters clearly thought they deserved.

To that end, there will be a new scoring system, to hopefully liven things up on the League table and give more people the recognition and internet bragging rights they deserve. My initial thought is to give points to the top 5 entrants, with 10, 9, 8, 7, 6 points respectively (everyone else would of course get the points for completing entries), but my worry is that 5 is still too few given the number of entrants, but on reflection, 10 is too many...

The League and Voting system will remain exactly as they are; as many votes per user as you like, encouragement to vote for creativity and effort as much as painting skill, and there will be no 'judging' introduced (earlier in the year I did consider having a panel to work out actual painting scores, but the work involved and the further complications it would mean for running the League and the challenges, and the fact it would kind of contradict the community-led ethos, made that a no-go). I'm going to look into somehow reformatting the League to make it more accessible and easy to find (I'll be contacting the mods about getting the new League thread sticked. we considered making it an article but with the number of image hosts involved that all got very fiddly) but that's purely cosmetic, the process itself will remain intact.


Rules
I think these will largely be staying the same, unless anyone has any great suggestions. I'll refine the wording on some parts to make it very clear what is and isn't permitted, and I need some kind of ruling on montage images, I have nothing against them but the current limit on image files does give an advantage to people presenting pics in that way (I'm sure it's not deliberate, they're just showing their models in the best possible light, can't hold that against anyone). I may also introduce some more specific rules on whether it's figures or bases that count towards the limit, what dead/injured minis count as, that kind of thing, but I don't want the front page to just become a tedious rulebook. If it gets too long, I'll just spoiler it.

Format
To be honest, I think this is ok, the community-chosen subject, month-long challenge and week-long vote seems to be working well enough. However, I'm putting it in here just in case anyone has any suggestions on how to improve it. Currently, there are two 'set' months as far as subjects go, March will be Space Marines (as it's a good draw and nice accessible starting points for most) and December an Open Challenge (I want to give people as much freedom as possible over the busy Christmas period), but as far as the others months go, are 4 themes to choose from enough? Too many? Anything you'd like to see changed or added there?

Anything Else? Please do suggest absolutely anything for the challenge and I'll be sure to consider it (if the suggestion is 'can we have cake as a prize every month?' the consideration period will sadly have to be quite short... I'd love to provide cake, but the logistics involved are pretty terrifying ) and once again, thanks for all getting behind the idea so completely over the last year! Here's to 12 more excellent challenges over the next 12 months!

Overall I think the format is fine.

For voting, I like the 4 selections, with 2nd place going forward to the next month for one more chance. The only thing that comes to mind is remembering what’s already been suggested/done before. But frankly, that’s not my problem, it’s yours Keeping things fresh and varied is going to be an issue as time goes forward. You don’t want too much repetition, but you also don’t want to stray too far outfield that you exclude people.

Less rules is good. This is a casual community project, that’s supposed to be inclusive and fun. Over the past year, how many times have you had to be the bad guy and put your foot down? Overwhelmingly, it’s been “Sounds cool! Go for it.” The Rule of Cool should be the yardstick we measure by.

For pictures, my main concern with numbers there is to prevent scrolling. It’s hard enough to sift through all the entries, even with spoilers. So if someone wants to do a montage, that’s fine by me. Generally the pictures are more compact that way. It’s not like it’s an exclusive thing that only the professionals can do. Part of the focus of this is to improve our skills. By allowing and not penalizing things like this, we might encourage people to step up the way they present their minis. I know there have been a number of entries over the last year that I didn’t vote for because I couldn’t get a good look at it, either due to focus, lighting, or size in frame. If it gets out of control, you might want to put a “suggestion” in the rules, but I’d avoid a hard rule here.

Personally I’m OK without points. To me, participation and community are the important parts. Obviously we have a wide level of talent, and some people are going to rise to the top. Frequently. If you do want to re-jigger the points, I’d try to keep the participation reward in there. If you do go to a straight %votes=point system (as suggested in the other thread) that might work. It seems like everyone gets at least a few votes, enough to get 1%. This will end up giving the winners more points, you might be able to mitigate this a little by setting a floor. Say, everyone who submitted an entry gets a minimum of 3-5 points. The winners are going to probably get something in the teens, so this would sorta keep the results similar to what we have now. It is a little unfair to those who actually earned that percentage, rather then just being bumped up to it.

But it’s all just made up bragging rights anyway. If they motivate people, then by all means keep them and work something out. I find them amusing, but then I like numbers like that.

Is it possible to attached two polls to a thread? My logic is that often best painted gets the most points (obviously as it should be!) but what about another score for just coolness or originality.
Like this month those mouse warriors guys were absolutely terrific but they arent going to win VS some of the other entries.

Could we do two scores:
One for technique, style, ability etc
The other for just "thats friggin cool!"

Thanks for your thoughts, guys.

@Nev: Participation points won't be going anywhere no matter what system we go to, completing an entry will net you at least 1 point regardless of placing. Regarding percentages, the only issues I see there are that it means if a finish is at all close (as it often is, there have been 3 or 4 rounds at least with only a couple of votes in it) then while there could still be a winner purely on votes, there would be 2 'top scorers' (not that that's necessarily a problem, it might just be a little odd), and it might be more work for TP^DC to keep it all updates with individual scores for everyone, but I'll have a word with him about that.

Regarding rules, I'm not looking to add more restrictions or anything, just clear up what's there now I know what kind of issues come up. I still intend to err on the side of letting as many people enter as possible, it's just a case of neatening things up and avoiding the 'can I do this' questions that I then have to make up an answer for as I haven't thought of anything.

@Ratius: sadly there's no way to do that, short of two separate threads which I don't think would get us anywhere. The thing to bear in mind is that this is first and foremost a painting competition, no matter how laid back, and people are going to vote based on that. I do encourage votes for creativity and effort, and that often gets rewarded, but the I personally don't think there should be anything working against the best painting mini winning a painting competition. This is another reason to switch to a broader range of points, though, as the entries that often end up in the middle still get something for their work.

I think you either need to eliminate points entirely, or work on a percentage based system, or something else.

Why? Your current system allows for someone to be nigh untouchable if they win 4-5 months and random people win the others. So by month 6, if someone won four months, there is no league, it's just deciding who is 2nd onwards.

This is not a dig at talented painters, gods no.

Could we fix a strawpoll system instead of voting on dakka? A lot smotther and unlimited polls.

The problem with the current (and most) point systems is that, as Buttery pointed out, the best painters will always get votes. I think two polls, one for paintjob and one for interpretation and coolness would be the best way to deal with it.

Hey. Good to do a post mortem. Can I confirm that I have the data for November and December, but the list of entrants is so long it is so arduous to try and work out if someone needs a new spreadsheet row or not. Every time I come to it, my brain melts after 20mins.

Which leads me on to scoring. The biggest headache for me is allocating points bizarrely. Because it means that I have to manually go through each entry and sort by most votes then assign the points. I keep all of the vote numbers in case there are any objections from participants. It would be easier for me to add the total number of votes together each month and the computer can do the rest. If I pre-define the formula for the year it will automatically collate the total votes and I can order it with the click of one button.

This would remove the bonus for the top 3 though and sadly anyone who got no votes would end up with nothing overall. You also lose context, 10 votes one month means something different depending on total number of votes cast.

Overall I don't want making my life easier to lose fairness of competition and possibly discourage participation by those starting out who need a confidence boost. So if you want to go ahead with extending the points to the top 10 instead of using votes as the marker I support the proposal you've made Para and let's go with that.

My only thought re challenge topics might be that we have a thread of topic ideas in March from all interested and then each month pull 2 ideas from the list randomly, one carried over from last month and one that may have sparked support that month. It's cool to plan in advance and if you know there are 20 potential topics that might come up you can spend time waiting for that to come up planning, modding, kitbashing etc ready for painting. My problem has been wasting precious painting time modding then running out of time to produce a quality paint job.

No other thoughts, carry on as you are

Thanks again Para

Or how about just a soft vote (posted) for those who took part. We don't get so many replies to the vote topic that it would be unmanageable.

tick box votes in the poll and a written reply for most improved or favourite idea?
I dunno. It's not intended to hamstring talent as much as give new folks a reason to join mid year.

I really have no suggestions tbh. I just like to enter competitions to help motivate me to paint, and get ideas on which to base things. I'm not really competitive lol So coming from that perspective, whatever you decide is fine as long as I still get to enter stuff

Buttery Commissar wrote:I think you either need to eliminate points entirely, or work on a percentage based system, or something else.

Why? Your current system allows for someone to be nigh untouchable if they win 4-5 months and random people win the others. So by month 6, if someone won four months, there is no league, it's just deciding who is 2nd onwards.

This is not a dig at talented painters, gods no.

Matthew wrote:Could we fix a strawpoll system instead of voting on dakka? A lot smotther and unlimited polls.

The problem with the current (and most) point systems is that, as Buttery pointed out, the best painters will always get votes. I think two polls, one for paintjob and one for interpretation and coolness would be the best way to deal with it.

There are definitely two sides to this. As mentioned, the best-painted minis probably should be winning the challenges themselves, but I agree the League is somewhat pointless if you have 2-3 people well out ahead. Hence my suggestion of bringing the difference between the top places closer together and having more points on offer generally.

TP^DC Deputy Manager wrote:Hey. Good to do a post mortem. Can I confirm that I have the data for November and December, but the list of entrants is so long it is so arduous to try and work out if someone needs a new spreadsheet row or not. Every time I come to it, my brain melts after 20mins.

Which leads me on to scoring. The biggest headache for me is allocating points bizarrely. Because it means that I have to manually go through each entry and sort by most votes then assign the points. I keep all of the vote numbers in case there are any objections from participants. It would be easier for me to add the total number of votes together each month and the computer can do the rest. If I pre-define the formula for the year it will automatically collate the total votes and I can order it with the click of one button.

This would remove the bonus for the top 3 though and sadly anyone who got no votes would end up with nothing overall. You also lose context, 10 votes one month means something different depending on total number of votes cast.

Overall I don't want making my life easier to lose fairness of competition and possibly discourage participation by those starting out who need a confidence boost. So if you want to go ahead with extending the points to the top 10 instead of using votes as the marker I support the proposal you've made Para and let's go with that.

My only thought re challenge topics might be that we have a thread of topic ideas in March from all interested and then each month pull 2 ideas from the list randomly, one carried over from last month and one that may have sparked support that month. It's cool to plan in advance and if you know there are 20 potential topics that might come up you can spend time waiting for that to come up planning, modding, kitbashing etc ready for painting. My problem has been wasting precious painting time modding then running out of time to produce a quality paint job.

No other thoughts, carry on as you are

Thanks again Para

First off, thanks so much for your work on the League table. I imagine that much like myself, you didn't expect quite so much to manage and keep track of when you signed up for this!

So are you saying the easiest way for you would be just counting the votes? That's definitely something that can be looked into, it accurately represents the difference between the scores as they are the scores, and I can't see the 'no votes' issue being a problem, I can't think of any recent round where anyone got no votes. What does everyone else think of that?

Buttery Commissar wrote:Or how about just a soft vote (posted) for those who took part. We don't get so many replies to the vote topic that it would be unmanageable.

tick box votes in the poll and a written reply for most improved or favourite idea?
I dunno. It's not intended to hamstring talent as much as give new folks a reason to join mid year.

How would you suggest implementing something like that? I kind of figure that people are voting for their most improved/favourite anyway, from the posts in the thread, so they'd essentially be voting for them twice. The reason I assume the best painted entries come out ahead is because it's usually quite easy to identify the models with the most technical skill in them, whereas people's favourites and the ones they consider the most creative or the ones with the most effort are more subjective, so the votes are more split across entries there.


Thanks for all your feedback guys, keep it coming and I'll keep on thinking on it all!

First off I think you've got a good thing going, so minor tinkering only would be my suggestion.

On the voting side, maybe give a bonus for getting a reasonable vote; I'm thinking something like:

1 point for completion
3-5 points for getting more than 10 votes/3-5% (whichever is easier to calculate
Then your top 3/5/whatever

Gives a bit of a boost to people who consistently get in the midfield, but aren't Januine or Lechine!

I am going to use Januine in my example here, which is not a slight against him or anyone else, he's just the best example. Jan, if this offends you, it shouldn't - I love you.

I do not see a problem with a league system that is dominated by a few people. This is a painting competition of who can paint the best. ALL skill levels are represented, sure, but this whole thought everyone wins a medal can just feth right off. My painting is probably average, I am better than a lot, and worse than a lot - I want to IMPROVE, I want to be inspired, I want to look at something that Januine has painted, and seen the route he has taken to achieve it, and then use that as motivation to improve my own skills. I want to paint as well as him one day, hell, I want to paint better than him if I can. I want to paint a model that could win a golden daemon. Why? Because striving for excellence should be a goal everyone has in everything they do, at least in my opinion. Will it ever happen? Who gives a stuff. But along the way I will see an improvement in my skills, enjoy myself, and hopefully one day rub it in Jan's face that I got more internet points for painting man dollies than he did at some stage.

That said, I think there could be some follow up threads. "Harsh but useful" criticism for all the entrants, posted by everyone that entered. I'd love a post from anyone here saying "hey kb, you did pretty good on that whatever, but I didn't like this because it looked too simple, and you missed shading here, or this light source looks wrong". Additionally, having a series of sub-categories could help add some diversity as well - Best ork, best vehicle, best conversion, whatever.

Using strawpoll, or anything other than this archaic forum's options, would be better, as simply ticking boxes does nothing of value - I'd love to be able to anonymously give a score out of 10 to each model, and post a comment about it, or add a subcategory to it like;

Paradigm: 8/10, really loved the execution on the barrel, but you missed a mold line on the arm that was really distracting.

Januine: 10/10, I hate you and your talent

Kustomer D: 9/10, brilliant conversion work, love it
[x] best conversion

I am also of two minds about only allowing those who took part to vote - there are brilliant painters that do not enter, but who read and vote. There are also terrible painters that do not enter, but who read and vote - all of their opinions are valid to me.

Edit: I literally didn't read the thread before posting this

There have been people I didn’t vote for, even though they did a technically amazing job. I’d vote for a less well executed, but more thematic job. Sort of like in some sports the athlete can decide to do a easier, safer routine, or a difficult one that can net more points. It’s also something I keep in mind when people ask if something is OK for the month’s subject. If you can sell it by your work, sure. Worst case, I just don’t vote for them.

With the disparate lot of painters we have, nothing short of a heavily juried panel evaluating everyone on their own merits is going to be “fair”. But do we break stuff up into different categories? Bar “professionals” from being voted on so the little guy has a chance? Nothing we can do is going to change things, without a heck of a lot of work and structure. The points are a side affect of the voting IMHO. The real gold in the poll threads is the peer review and commentary. I think it’s important to have the vote, as it makes us look, compare, and analyze all the entires. And give comments and feedback.

The number cruncher in me loves to look at the data. See how people progress, massage the numbers to see if any patterns form, that sort of thing. But they are just numbers, made up irrelevant ones at that. We know they are just for bragging rights. And I’m OK with the guys on the top bragging. They earned their place there. Is it daunting to a new entrant? The do set an awfully high bar. Is that going to turn people away, feeling they can’t achieve those heights? Or challenge them to up their game to knock them off their perch on the top?

We’re primarily wargamers here. I think most of us will go gunning for #1, rather then walk away. Doing an annual point reset makes it so there is always a level playing field next year. You just need to take the long game.

(OK, that’s enough long winded rambling for me for one night)

Being something of a technophobe, can someone explain precisely what Strawpoll offers that Dakka's voting system doesn't? I'm hesitant to move off-site simply as having the images and the poll in the same place is much easier, but if there's something major that I'm missing out on by sticking to Dakka then I could be persuaded to move.

I do encourage people to leave feedback, and I think a lot of people do, but at the same time, I don't want to force anyone to go through 30+ entries and leave a comment/rating on each one. At its core, I want this to be a simple as possible to get as many people voting as possible, the more effort that's required to vote the less voters we'll get.

I agree with Nev regarding the points being a nice aside, but that's the thing, they are nice to have and while fairness might not be attainable, I do want to make sure that people get the internet bonus points they deserve for the toy soldiers they paint! So to that end, there will be some kind of change to the system. That is exactly the point of the yearly resets, to make sure that people that have improved over the year (and a lot of people have this last 12 rounds) get to start over and work their way up again... It's like the film Source Code, but for painters on the internet rather than secret agents on a train...

Also, playing devil's advocate, I don't always want to hear what people think about my painting.

Well, it is easier to have the information and not read it, than it is to read it without having it

Para: Strawpoll (or any other poll) will let you provide a lot more complicated options. Hell, ideally I would love a page per entrant where I rate each one individually instead of the scrolling marathon. I will see if I can make a mock-up of what it would look like.

My thoughts on the points is maybe a lower gap from night to lowest points, eg: 5 first/4 second/3 Thrid/2 fourth/1 participation.that way the winners still move to the top but it doesn't make it a marathon for other people to catch up after one person gets two or more wins.

 Paradigm wrote:
I don't want to force anyone to go through 30+ entries and leave a comment/rating on each one. At its core, I want this to be a simple as possible to get as many people voting as possible, the more effort that's required to vote the less voters we'll get.

Yeah that is definitely a down-side. Looks like you can skip them easily enough though, I will try to build that in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/H6TKPTC

I can get the spreadsheet software to add votes together way easier than having to go through the middle step of assigning a points value. If people don't mind going on pure votes alone my brain would be happier. It will mean that when there is a 50 vote lead, there will be those who are way out in front though, but I don't care.

I've spoke to Januine about this before and told him straight that I will never paint as good as him, but what a lot of you may not know is that he regularly gives me tips on how to improve and thanks to him I learned to wet-blend and succeeded in a 16 year dream of painting a Balrog to a standard that wouldn't make me ashamed. I am damn proud of that model but I only got one League point for it and only one gallery vote too. I'm a bit irritated, but it sits in my cupboard glaring at me, reminding me that I can do better than I could 12 months ago and I freaking love that fiery little thing!

Januine, Paradigm and BC have helped me with my skill level through the League. They deserve their spots, so they can have a 200 point lead as far as I care, because they are helping me get better. Which, if you read Paradigm's introduction to the challenges, is exactly what this is all about - "get painting boys and girls! Who cares how you do, because 12 months from now you are gonna be a hundred times better if you keep plugging away."

Or something...

Look, I've ranted. I'm sorry. I just don't want us to lose sight of what the challenges were for - getting better at something we love. A happy accident is those who are really good get to deservedly feel good about themselves. Let's make the voting fair, let the middle road guys get a few more points and maybe have a chance to reach the top spot due to a fantastic month. Let's not get too over the top though and I would rather we all pledge to feedback on at least 10 models each month rather than go off-site and have voting and feedback threads there.

Cheers for the demo, that's pretty neat... in theory. I do have a couple of issues/questions about the idea though.

First off, How simple is it to get the images on the page, and do the forms have to be set up one by one? On Dakka I can just C&P the OP of the challenge thread, delete the Proof and anyone who didn't finished, on this would I literally have to go through and set up every single entry individually? Because not being funny, I probably don't have time to go through and do that every month.

My second concern is that it changes the appearance from 'come and look at this pictures, and click on your favourites while you're here' to 'Would you take a moment to fill out this questionnaire... no, wait, come back! Pleeeaaseee!' Ok, I'm being a bit flippant there, but I don't think we'd get 400 voters each month via that method.

There's also the matter of results. With a vote on Dakka, the results are there and easy to see; pick the highest number, that's the winner. With this, I can't even think how you'd go about working out the winners without lots of complicated graphs and sums and averages.

So there's possibly something to work with there, but on a personal level, it's a lot more work for me and practically, it's maybe just a little too involved. Still handy though! Thanks again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TP^DC Deputy Manager wrote:

Look, I've ranted. I'm sorry. I just don't want us to lose sight of what the challenges were for - getting better at something we love. A happy accident is those who are really good get to deservedly feel good about themselves. Let's make the voting fair, let the middle road guys get a few more points and maybe have a chance to reach the top spot due to a fantastic month. Let's not get too over the top though and I would rather we all pledge to feedback on at least 10 models each month rather than go off-site and have voting and feedback threads there.

This is definitely key, this is only a bit of fun and I want to avoid getting too bogged down in the 'competitive' element. It's certainly not a case of the 'everyone gets a medal' primary school sports day mentality, the 'issue' such as it is is that the scoring was set for a far smaller number of entrants, and that over the year has proven itself to not reward a lot of people who deserve recognition purely due to the large numbers of entrants and small number of places with extra points available.

So basically, my main aim is to make it fairer, not necessarily more complex or in-depth.

I almost had an aneurysm trying to do the poll for you this month, survey monkey was super easy.

Here comes the hook though, it isn't free

That's probably out then. In the same way that I don't have the spare cash to offer a few prizes for the League (as much as I'd like to), I can't really be signing up for something that I'd need to pay for, and I certainly won't expect/ask anyone else to.

I'll have to have a look if there is a similar free option, but I can get the Dakka-based poll threads done pretty easily now, so if it's going to be a great deal more effort only to complicate things it's not really where I'm going with this.

Maybe we can get an admin to add something for us?

I have been enjoying painting for the comp and managing to snag some decent points here and there too.

My only really thought with regards to the whole thing is to suggest that a rule regarding displaying the images of the final piece elsewhere be added. Namely that if the competition is still open you should display your images only in the competition thread rather than something in the Showcase SubForum or on a P & M blog. After the competition is closed do what you will.

I just feel that the additional exposure from additional threads/locations could quite easily swing some votes.

Winter wrote:
I have been enjoying painting for the comp and managing to snag some decent points here and there too.

My only really thought with regards to the whole thing is to suggest that a rule regarding displaying the images of the final piece elsewhere be added. Namely that if the competition is still open you should display your images only in the competition thread rather than something in the Showcase SubForum or on a P & M blog. After the competition is closed do what you will.

I just feel that the additional exposure from additional threads/locations could quite easily swing some votes.

It might swing some votes, but also gets more looks. I have a P&M blog. While not overcrowded, I do have a number of regular visitors who know my style and offer advice. While I will occasionally post a WIP in the monthly thread, it’s often right after I update my own blog. I’m not going to keep the followers of my blog in the dark. I need all the feedback I can get, and my blog is the primary source of it.

Winter wrote:I have been enjoying painting for the comp and managing to snag some decent points here and there too.

My only really thought with regards to the whole thing is to suggest that a rule regarding displaying the images of the final piece elsewhere be added. Namely that if the competition is still open you should display your images only in the competition thread rather than something in the Showcase SubForum or on a P & M blog. After the competition is closed do what you will.

I just feel that the additional exposure from additional threads/locations could quite easily swing some votes.

Were this in any way a serious challenge, this would be in the rules. However, I don't think it's that great an advantage, and since you need to be on Dakka in the first place to enter, anyone can start a thread in showcase so it's not like it's something that's only available to certain people. To my mind, there's no issue here, especially as this is a very laid back competition anyway, though if anyone else agrees with Winter then do chip in and I'll consider it further.

I think going by votes would be a good way to do it.

 TP^DC Deputy Manager wrote:
I can get the spreadsheet software to add votes together way easier than having to go through the middle step of assigning a points value. If people don't mind going on pure votes alone my brain would be happier. It will mean that when there is a 50 vote lead, there will be those who are way out in front though, but I don't care.

I've spoke to Januine about this before and told him straight that I will never paint as good as him, but what a lot of you may not know is that he regularly gives me tips on how to improve and thanks to him I learned to wet-blend and succeeded in a 16 year dream of painting a Balrog to a standard that wouldn't make me ashamed. I am damn proud of that model but I only got one League point for it and only one gallery vote too. I'm a bit irritated, but it sits in my cupboard glaring at me, reminding me that I can do better than I could 12 months ago and I freaking love that fiery little thing!

Januine, Paradigm and BC have helped me with my skill level through the League. They deserve their spots, so they can have a 200 point lead as far as I care, because they are helping me get better. Which, if you read Paradigm's introduction to the challenges, is exactly what this is all about - "get painting boys and girls! Who cares how you do, because 12 months from now you are gonna be a hundred times better if you keep plugging away."

Or something...

Look, I've ranted. I'm sorry. I just don't want us to lose sight of what the challenges were for - getting better at something we love. A happy accident is those who are really good get to deservedly feel good about themselves. Let's make the voting fair, let the middle road guys get a few more points and maybe have a chance to reach the top spot due to a fantastic month. Let's not get too over the top though and I would rather we all pledge to feedback on at least 10 models each month rather than go off-site and have voting and feedback threads there.

Exalted! I agree with this! I myself have enjoyed these challenges, and they have really caused me to up my painting game. I do think the best mini I did last year was probably my Soul Grinder (indeed, it is probably my best model I've ever painted in my life), but even it only got me like 10 votes in that poll. Do I care? Hell no! I've got a cool looking demonic walker that even gets compliments in tournaments where I play it, so I'm proud. I would love to have more feedback on my models, but that is part of the reason why I have a P&M blog. Those who want more feedback should probably start their own blogs over in the appropriate section of the Dakka forums, although feedback on the voting threads would be great as well! I say definitely keep the challenge on Dakka and not some third party site-it may not be perfect, but it is easily good enough for a casual competition like this.

To answer a post waaaaay up, strawpoll would allow us to have an infinite amount of polls, which would be good if we wanted to have more than one.

Winter wrote:
I have been enjoying painting for the comp and managing to snag some decent points here and there too.

My only really thought with regards to the whole thing is to suggest that a rule regarding displaying the images of the final piece elsewhere be added. Namely that if the competition is still open you should display your images only in the competition thread rather than something in the Showcase SubForum or on a P & M blog. After the competition is closed do what you will.

I just feel that the additional exposure from additional threads/locations could quite easily swing some votes.

As the poll allows for multiple selections, I think it's fair to give some publicity to the contest through P&M blogs and discussions. It would also be quite restrictive to disallow that discussion.
For example TP has a blog about his MEdge at the moment, that would be hamstrung by this ruling.

In the past, I've done very simple step by steps on my scratchbuilds, or "in the moment" pictures of how far I've got. I'm way too lazy to add those to my thread after the contest, and they'd be of limited use in the contest thread.

Honestly, some painters have such a "thumbprint" on their work, that publicity or not, there will be minor vote swing. We could easily ID para or Jan from a lineup of identical minis.