Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Note: before someone posts the whole discussion about Starcraft / Blizzard / Games Workshop / Warhammer 40k / Tyranids, please don't. Its a beaten horse. I've considered posting this thread for the past 3 days and changed my mind based on worrying about someone derailing it over this. Thank you.


So, my buddy is purchasing a 3D printer that is ~$1300. I don't remember which one it is, I imagine I'll see it first hand when it arrives.

He asked me if there was any 40k units I'd like to make. To prevent Lawyer Adeptus from Deep Striking into this thread, I said no. That said, there was a model I'd like to make for casual games with my Tyranids - The Queen of Blades.

Yea, blizzard fanboy. I've always loved starcraft. And the nids and zerg share some base history. So my first attempt at a 3D model is going to be to bring her to life.

That said, I'm a bit lost as to what she should actually "be". I was thinking Lord of War, which means she needs to cost a hefty amount of points as well as have a meaningful reason to be taken, verus a barbed heridole, harridan, etc.

So I'd like to ask for help / suggestions. At this point, nothing would be set in stone. I'd love to hear what you think.

Here is what I currently think she should look like

1) Not a monsterous creature - we have enough of these. Having her not be a MC / GC not only makes sense on apperance, it makes her different from the other Tyranid LoW.

2) Level 4 Psyker - The QofB is a psyker, if not the most powerful from the SC universe. Swarmlord is already ML3. She should be ML3-4 herself.

3) Extended synapse range - mostly fluff, no reason it shouldnt be included.

4) Non-flying wings - again, an apperance thing. Jump infantry. No need to be a flyer, we have a harridan.

5) Assault Grenedes / AP2 - very few nids actually get assault grenades. Anything other than AP2 melee attacks would look weird on a LoW. She could probably have smash as well.

6) Some version of Eternal Warrior / Copy of Sister Celestine's reanimation - QofB is basically unkillable and can be respawned by the zerg army.

7) she should favor a unique playstyle - harridan brings gargoyles. Maybe she should have supporting rules for another tyranid unit? My thought is lictors.

8) no idea on points, somewhere around the 500pt range. Stat line based on a hive tyrant (or even a Tyranid Warrior)

Maybe provide us with a little background info on the Queen of Blades, especially as not everyone is familiar with her.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, she looks a little too humanoid-ish. Appearance-wise, I think she might make for a better Slaaneshi daemon than for a Tyranid creature.

I used a female Dark Eldar and some scything talons to make Kerrigan. Ran her as a Broodlord for the longest time.

Queen of Blades [200 points]

WS 6
BS 6
S 4
T 4
W 3
I 5
A 3
Ld 10
5++, 5+++

Psy-blades: S (User), AP2
Melee


Jump Infantry, Eternal Warrior, Independant Character, ML 3 Psyker (Tyranid Psychic Discipline only), 24" synapse radius from model, harnesses warp charge on 2+

If I remember correctly, in Heart of the Swarm, she got an ability that would occasionally respawn zerglings at one of your hive clusters.... Could give her an ability somewhat like this with hormagaunts.

Call the Swarm (?): When the queen of blades is deployed, select D3 units of hormagaunts from the same detachment as her. At the begining of each of your movement phases roll a d6, on a 4+ half of the casualties suffered by that unit are returned to play in coherency with the rest of the unit. In addition, if one of these units is fully destroyed, roll a die, on a result of 4+ place an identical unit (including the previous buff from this ability) into ongoing reserves.

Maybe playtest it a bit too see if it needs to be tweaked, or maybe just givethe second part to 3 units instead. Basically gives them the unending swarm formation bonus, but on less units.

I'd most likely suggest very similar rules to swarmlord (if I'm thinking the right model here), but with slightly better psychic powers, slightly inferior S/T, and Yarrick or Celestine style regen rule, maybe on top of IWND.

 jy2 wrote:
Maybe provide us with a little background info on the Queen of Blades, especially as not everyone is familiar with her.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, she looks a little too humanoid-ish. Appearance-wise, I think she might make for a better Slaaneshi daemon than for a Tyranid creature.

Some sort of Genestealer hybrid might be the best 'fluffy' choice. In the Starcraft lore, Kerrigan was a Ghost (brainwashed spec-ops soldier) with very powerful psionic abilities that attracted the attention of the Hive Mind. The Zerg captured her and put her through a chrysalis which changed her into the Queen of Blades. She leads the Zerg armies, and eventually destroys the Hive Mind itself to take full control of the Zerg.

 jy2 wrote:
Maybe provide us with a little background info on the Queen of Blades, especially as not everyone is familiar with her.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, she looks a little too humanoid-ish. Appearance-wise, I think she might make for a better Slaaneshi daemon than for a Tyranid creature.

Odd, I thought the problem I would end up having is people not wanting to add the two together, instead of not knowing enough. :sweat:

The Queen of Blades is the quintessential being who rules over the Zerg swarm. They were once ruled by the Overmind (similar to our great devourer) and she was pretty much where the swarmlord would be in our lore.
At the time, unable to have a single thought outside of the Overmind's will.

Yes, she appears humanoid-ish. Cultist Genestealers are a thing so we aren't completely off here. That said, she was incubated by the Zerg swarm in a coccoon - besides looking human, her features are completely of the swarm.

She is a terrifying creature, as a human was a wide-known psycher of the highest calibur. Relentless, resourceful, and full of Rage.

 Happyjew wrote:
I used a female Dark Eldar and some scything talons to make Kerrigan. Ran her as a Broodlord for the longest time.

Dark Eldar isn't completely off, she toes the line between DE and Tyranid.

That idea might work for making a makeshift model of her. Thank you.

LexOdin9 wrote:
Queen of Blades [200 points]

WS 6
BS 6
S 4
T 4
W 3
I 5
A 3
Ld 10
5++, 5+++

Psy-blades: S (User), AP2
Melee


Jump Infantry, Eternal Warrior, Independant Character, ML 3 Psyker (Tyranid Psychic Discipline only), 24" synapse radius from model, harnesses warp charge on 2+

I'm not sure on being an IC (would be great, but I'm not sure this LoW hiding in a Carnifex Brood would be a good idea). 18-24" synapse should work though. The harness warp charge rule seems like it would be fitting lore wise and point wise. Even with EW, she is pretty fragile with that statline. I like it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dsmith10 wrote:
If I remember correctly, in Heart of the Swarm, she got an ability that would occasionally respawn zerglings at one of your hive clusters.... Could give her an ability somewhat like this with hormagaunts.

Call the Swarm (?): When the queen of blades is deployed, select D3 units of hormagaunts from the same detachment as her. At the begining of each of your movement phases roll a d6, on a 4+ half of the casualties suffered by that unit are returned to play in coherency with the rest of the unit. In addition, if one of these units is fully destroyed, roll a die, on a result of 4+ place an identical unit (including the previous buff from this ability) into ongoing reserves.

Maybe playtest it a bit too see if it needs to be tweaked, or maybe just givethe second part to 3 units instead. Basically gives them the unending swarm formation bonus, but on less units.

I did throw around the idea of Endless Swarm. It would give a reason to use hormaguants (which has been really lacking this edition)

 GoonBandito wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Maybe provide us with a little background info on the Queen of Blades, especially as not everyone is familiar with her.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, she looks a little too humanoid-ish. Appearance-wise, I think she might make for a better Slaaneshi daemon than for a Tyranid creature.

Some sort of Genestealer hybrid might be the best 'fluffy' choice. In the Starcraft lore, Kerrigan was a Ghost (brainwashed spec-ops soldier) with very powerful psionic abilities that attracted the attention of the Hive Mind. The Zerg captured her and put her through a chrysalis which changed her into the Queen of Blades. She leads the Zerg armies, and eventually destroys the Hive Mind itself to take full control of the Zerg.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Its very, very unlikely that we'd ever get a unit for Tyranids that is past the swarmlord in terms of rank to the great devourer (unlike space marines who get their captains, chapter masters, primarch, etc). Her as the Lord of War would fill that void.

While she was a Ghost, I wanted to focus mostly on her psyionic prowless and ruthlessness. The stealth and ranged expert would be best left on Kerrigan for another race.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

This is my current thought, having read your responses. Thank you for taking the time to respond and give advice, I really appreciate it!

Points - 350

WS 8 BS 6 S6 T5 W3 I8 A3 LD10 SV3 4++

Jump Infantry, Eternal Warrior, ML 4 Psyker (Codex Powers only), 18" synapse

Weapons:

Enhanced Rending Claws: S (User), AP2 Armourbane
Winged Scything Talons: S8 AP3 Fleshbane

Abilities:

BroodMother - This unit must be selected as your warlord. Select one full unit of Hormaguants prior to start of the game. As long as this unit is within synaptic range of the Queen of Blades, this unit has the endless swarm special rule and is treated as poisoned attacks and may re-roll charge distance.
Superior Psyker - If this unit is selected as a target of a psychic ability, it may deny the witch on a 2+. This unit harnesses a successful warp charge on 2+
Rebirth - If this unit is destroyed, it is placed into your reserves instead (not ongoing reserves). This unit is re-deployed following the rules of reserves. Kill points are awarded as normal.

Does this sound balanced? Would this be worth the point total?

Megamanrocks wrote:

Odd, I thought the problem I would end up having is people not wanting to add the two together, instead of not knowing enough. :sweat:

The Queen of Blades is the quintessential being who rules over the Zerg swarm. They were once ruled by the Overmind (similar to our great devourer) and she was pretty much where the swarmlord would be in our lore.
At the time, unable to have a single thought outside of the Overmind's will.

Yes, she appears humanoid-ish. Cultist Genestealers are a thing so we aren't completely off here. That said, she was incubated by the Zerg swarm in a coccoon - besides looking human, her features are completely of the swarm.

She is a terrifying creature, as a human was a wide-known psycher of the highest calibur. Relentless, resourceful, and full of Rage.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Its very, very unlikely that we'd ever get a unit for Tyranids that is past the swarmlord in terms of rank to the great devourer (unlike space marines who get their captains, chapter masters, primarch, etc). Her as the Lord of War would fill that void.

While she was a Ghost, I wanted to focus mostly on her psyionic prowless and ruthlessness. The stealth and ranged expert would be best left on Kerrigan for another race.

Automatically Appended Next Post:


Does this sound balanced? Would this be worth the point total?

From a pure fluff pov, Kerrigan doesn't makes sense for the Nids, it is one of the differences in how the Tyranids and the Zerg operate. The Zerg infest, assimilate and mutate, the Tyranids devour genetic material and use it to create entirely new stuff.

The Zerg captured and infesting a powerful being aka Kerrigan. The Tyranids would devour her and use her genetic material to boost all Tyranids psychic abilities.

pretty much what Tyran said, just because Blizzard borrowed pretty heavily from 40k when they made star craft doesn't mean they didn't also do their own thing

It doesn't matter much if we think the fluff doesn't match to well, what matters if the themes of the Zerg and the Tyranids are similar enough for us to integrate a model that feels like Kerrigan rule wise into the tyranid army, not turn the tyranid army into the zerg.

She should probably have a Warp Shield due to her psyonic nature much like the Zoanthropes, which then instantly puts her head over heels above the rest of the tyranid HQ's in durability. She also deserves Eternal Warrior. She doesn't deserve a respawn mechanic, because while she does respawn it's never fast enough to effect the battle that she died in.

High Ws is a must as is High I, she was basically a Vindicare assassin before she became the Queen. Ws 8 Bs 8 Str 5 T 5 W4 I7 A 5 Ld 10 kinda deal. 4+/3++ Sv with eternal warrior. AP 3 weaponry with rending, allow her to expend a warp charge to give them fleshbane and yet another to give herself AP 2. Mastery level 4 psyker. Add 6'' to all Tyranid Psykic powers and 24'' synapse. Independent Character. Heck, she even basically has flesh hooks (fluffed as her Wing Spines).

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
It doesn't matter much if we think the fluff doesn't match to well, what matters if the themes of the Zerg and the Tyranids are similar enough for us to integrate a model that feels like Kerrigan rule wise into the tyranid army, not turn the tyranid army into the zerg.

She should probably have a Warp Shield due to her psyonic nature much like the Zoanthropes, which then instantly puts her head over heels above the rest of the tyranid HQ's in durability. She also deserves Eternal Warrior. She doesn't deserve a respawn mechanic, because while she does respawn it's never fast enough to effect the battle that she died in.

High Ws is a must as is High I, she was basically a Vindicare assassin before she became the Queen. Ws 8 Bs 8 Str 5 T 5 W4 I7 A 5 Ld 10 kinda deal. 4+/3++ Sv with eternal warrior. AP 3 weaponry with rending, allow her to expend a warp charge to give them fleshbane and yet another to give herself AP 2. Mastery level 4 psyker. Add 6'' to all Tyranid Psykic powers and 24'' synapse. Independent Character. Heck, she even basically has flesh hooks (fluffed as her Wing Spines).

What I'm saying is that thematically, Kerrigan doesn't fit the Tyranids. He still is free to give her rules and play her in his games.

This is my current thought, having read your responses. Thank you for taking the time to respond and give advice, I really appreciate it!

Points - 350

WS 8 BS 6 S6 T5 W3 I8 A3 LD10 SV3 4++

Jump Infantry, Eternal Warrior, ML 4 Psyker (Codex Powers only), 18" synapse

Weapons:

Enhanced Rending Claws: S (User), AP2 Armourbane
Winged Scything Talons: S8 AP3 Fleshbane

Abilities:

BroodMother - This unit must be selected as your warlord. Select one full unit of Hormaguants prior to start of the game. As long as this unit is within synaptic range of the Queen of Blades, this unit has the endless swarm special rule and is treated as poisoned attacks and may re-roll charge distance.
Superior Psyker - If this unit is selected as a target of a psychic ability, it may deny the witch on a 2+. This unit harnesses a successful warp charge on 2+
Rebirth - If this unit is destroyed, it is placed into your reserves instead (not ongoing reserves). This unit is re-deployed following the rules of reserves. Kill points are awarded as normal.

I think it's a little bit over the top. I don't think she's S6. That's as strong as a hive tyrant.

I'd drop some of her statline and reduce her point cost. I'd remove Rebirth and also lower point cost some more. I think the Winged Scything Talons are a bit over the top as well.