Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:


Bones fills that niche, and my heart with joy. The joy is felt when a cat jumps on the table, and knocks the minis to a tile floor... where they bounce around (and get chased by said cat) but come out undamaged.

The Auld Grump

It happens a bit differently with a dog.

Well, yeah... metals can go through a dog's belly and just need repainting.... (You really do not want to know how I know this.)

For the Bones plastic... the worst offenders are ferrets - who carry them off, and slowly chew them to death over days....

The Auld Grump

 Polonius wrote:
Basically, the "market" is settling down. We're seeing that for most projects from relatively established or well funded creators, the kickstarter is basically an investment of capital, that will be repaid in product. The rate of return used to be sky high, but it's fallen, as more companies show that they can be trusted, while those that offer huge returns are high risk.

Absolutely and no.

With companies repeatedly using KS, risk decreases. This improves the reputation of the company, so more backers back their games -- particularly the well-known franchises. Zombicide's a good example -- Zombicide: Black Plague made $4M, although, as a "reboot", I'm sure more backers pledged than would have done so for Zombicide 4 (coming up next year). The more backers, the more money, the more stretch goals unlocked, and we're back to high returns. So... instead of returns to compensate for high risk, we now have returns as a result of more funding. (And, even though Bones III made less money than Bones II, the core set still had 150+ unique sculpts, and three expansions were unlocked.)

I'll agree that not all companies will do this, but, I'm sure from the lack of funds in my wallet, enough are doing so.

Speaking of a return, only two hours left for TerraTiles!

@ced1106
Don't think the latest Zombicide campaign is a good example- it was a different theme from their normal modern horror, and probably pulled in more backers because of it.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
If anyone wants a giant 5 headed dragon now you can get this guy

http://www.designtoscano.com/product/lysander%2C+the+five-headed+dragon+sculpture+-+wu71178.do?sortby=bestSellers;


They're running a sale so with the code midsum20 he's $55
You don't enter the coupon until you're on the payment step of checkout. He's already reduced to $69 so it drops it 20% more.

How big is that model btw?

12" high. Reaper's Tianot is 15" so it's 3" shorter. For me that's a good thing as I am not 100% sure I have room for the Reaper version.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
@ced1106
Don't think the latest Zombicide campaign is a good example- it was a different theme from their normal modern horror, and probably pulled in more backers because of it.

I think that's an additional factor that made it even more successful. Here's what I think pulls in the money that's beyond the reboot:
* CMON: CMON has a track record of fulfilling KS. This means lower risk to backers who avoid projects from unknown companies.
* Zombicide: Zombicide is a familiar franchise of a product available at retail. This means lower risks to boardgamers, who may have played the game or read the reviews, which is not possible for many boardgame KS projects.
* KS window: With its limited time frame, new backers who saw the success (and loot) of previous Zombicide KS, see the next Z campaign as a must-have opportunity for what they missed.

If you look at Z1, Z2, Z3, you see the funds, from 700K, 2.2M, 2.2M. The number of Z2 and Z3 miniatures are roughly the same, or at least the "high return" I believe still exists today, but because of low risks from the creator, rather than the need to attract backers. We'll see if I'm right with Z4 -- although "KS fatigue" works against franchises. To some extent, Reaper's KS suffered "miniatures fatigue" as some backers of Bones I and Bones II said they weren't finished painting their existing Bones yet.

EDIT: If replying, stick to discussing whether or not the lower risk projects on KS are affecting the returns of projects, rather than if Z:BP was a good example.

That Zombicide Kickstarter is a pretty snazzy deal at $150. I actually had not looked at it before. I wasn't aware of the size of some of those models (big!) and there are a lot of great adventurer types and npcs and weird zombies that you always struggle to represent in fantasy games. Getting all of those popular artists on board surely helped as well.

I did not back Black Plague while it was live but I'm looking at it now.

It's funny... I wouldn't let myself spend anything on that... then stinky reaper comes along and i'm almost $200 in the hole =/

Oh well, lots of cool models coming my way down the road.

 GrimDork wrote:
It's funny... I wouldn't let myself spend anything on that... then stinky reaper comes along and i'm almost $200 in the hole =/

Oh well, lots of cool models coming my way down the road.

lol. I feel like there's a certain point when all these kickstarters will all miraculously deliver at the same time and I will feel like a kid on Christmas having a birthday.. right up until the postman shoots me.

That sounds like the ending of a movie somehow...

I've backed a few and they've all been fairly staggered, though I did get to where there was a fairly large IN pile. I'm not sure if it's more or less depressing than having the plastic/lead pile of shame as it's all neatly packed away in boxes.

Someone mentioned Legendary Encounters, being painted Bones figures I was curious.

ReaperBryan wrote:The cost breakdowns on converting Bones to LE are interesting. LE figures cost more per unit (significantly more, not just pennies but 500-1000%) but we don't have to buy a new mold. We do have to buy masks for painting, so what's crazy is that setup for a new color-run of LE is within a hundred bucks or so of setup for a brand new mold for Bones. You have 4-6 figures per mold, so that's 4-6 new SETS of masks, and then by the time you've ordered the minimum quantities of all 6 models at 5x-10x the Bones cost for the same minimum run, yeah, the prices are nearly the same. And then LE retail for ~3x more, so there's slightly more profit per mini (10% of $4 is more than 10% of $2) but we sell slightly fewer. It's a crazy thing to analyze, and I'll admit that I've spent significant time analyzing these numbers in committee, I'm spending less and less energy looking at LE as we ramp up for a Bones 3 launch in 4 weeks.

It's just an interesting tidbit

Got an email just now, we can start locking in and finalizing our pledges.

There are also 4 more giants, 4-5 flavors of transparent weapons, and some more scenery as well. The giants are in two sets for $15 each. They touted them as 75mm but that's not really crazy big. I guess it's still at least twice as tall as a person so probably legit for DnD style giants.

They also say they're new sculpts while the images are from the first kickstarter... So I dunno what's going on with the fire giants.

They won't be terribly expensive on miniature market once they hit retail, I think I can wait. Reaper has enough of my money for one year... I may add a clear weapon pack... maybe. Not really sure what I'd do with them though.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
They also say they're new sculpts while the images are from the first kickstarter... So I dunno what's going on with the fire giants.

I think they are new in that they are a new size. They are almost certainly the old sculpts, since they say they were "resized", likely to match the new size of the frost giants.

I'm glad the little Bonesylvanians made it in. I was just about to order them from miniature market on their summer sale.

Hm, will that make them larger or smaller than the KS1 versions?

Anyone else get the feeling from that update that it was basically a bunch of (fake?) "stretch goals" that never got hit?

 Azazelx wrote:
Hm, will that make them larger or smaller than the KS1 versions?

Anyone else get the feeling from that update that it was basically a bunch of (fake?) "stretch goals" that never got hit?

Yeah, it kinda feels that way.

I'm not sure on the resizing- update literally said new sculpts. I'd be a bit pissed if all they did was change the size from my old ones after buying them.

My biggest take away from this is the town extras set. I know my kids will like playing with that stuff. Kind of surprised there's no town square fountain to round that set out.

I was just thinking of picking up those fire giants as well. If they'll be even bigger, great. I'm hoping there will be a bit sharper detail n them as well.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Hm, will that make them larger or smaller than the KS1 versions?

Anyone else get the feeling from that update that it was basically a bunch of (fake?) "stretch goals" that never got hit?

Yeah, it kinda feels that way.

I'm not sure on the resizing- update literally said new sculpts. I'd be a bit pissed if all they did was change the size from my old ones after buying them.

Cutting and pasting from the Reaper forums -

Qwyksilver wrote:From Bryan (or whomever is currently posting form the Project Creator account currently):

@Bench - Larger versions of the models from Bones 1. Now that we understand the material and process better, we wanted to redo them in the size the Monster Books say they are.


@R Statler - new sculpts (because the originals weren't digital and cannot be upscaled easily) but we anticipate the same poses and a greater level of detail to go along with the increased size.

So... new sculpts in the same poses.

They have also fixed the molds on some of the Bones I models that were dropped because of problems. (So, the Steampunk Witch will fly forth.)

The Auld Grump

 Azazelx wrote:
Anyone else get the feeling from that update that it was basically a bunch of (fake?) "stretch goals" that never got hit?

What's this with "fake" stretch goals? If you don't like 'em, don't buy 'em.

Add-ons are a risk. If some but not enough backers order an add-on, the company loses money on molds. Maybe Reaper settled the books and found they had enough money from the KS to fund any losses. Or they projected or have enough funds from day-to-day company operations to cover possible losses on the molds. Or they always *did* intend to release these miniatures regardless of the campaign, so were indeed "fake". Before the KS, Reaper planned out SG's to $5M (?). My guess is that, since Reaper is managed by accountants, they finally settled the numbers and realized what else they could offer. I would have preferred they offered them during the campaign to unlock the free SG's, but it's better than them not offering them at all.

Size comparison from the Reaper boards:

If that's the case then they're really a bit bigger than 75mm as that line comes closer to their heads in a fairly wide stance.

Neat. I may need to upgrade then.

My boys are totally going to want a set of red and green weapons so they can fight like Jedis and Sith. There will be no end to the diggy hole I'm stuffing with my money, or the incredible value we continue to receive.

Are they any cheaper in uncolored plastic? I am going to need a bunch of those weapons...

Also, when is CAV Bones hitting retail? It feels like we should have seen some of them in the wild by now. What gives?

Scorpio616 also suggests for the Jedis:

After seeing how much some of the odds and ends I got on the last Kickstarter are costing at retail, makes me a bit hesitant to plunge so much money this time around.

That doesn't mean I'm not spending a pretty penny- I most certainly am. I guess it all works out in the end. Some stuff I got way cheaper than retail, some about the same, possibly a bit more (some of the demons and devils especially).

After building some of the big ticket items from last time, I'm afraid I will end up getting that 5 headed dragon in the end. And Dagon. And the Frogemoth. And the giants. And probably another dragon or two.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Also, when is CAV Bones hitting retail? It feels like we should have seen some of them in the wild by now. What gives?

My understanding is:

1) They produced a bulk load of the original "Core Set" CAVs in white plastic in 2014, and these have indeed already been sent out to backers who wanted two shipments. I am a mad idiot who elected for that option, despite that meaning that I'll have to pay two sets of handling fees.

2) They then switched to a parallel process of getting the new rulebook written and produced, and manufacturing all of the new models (and the old one again) in grey plastic. The former has just been done, the rulebook is going to be available from Reaper any day now. The latter has been held up a bit :

We're very sorry, but we still have been facing some production delays which have caused delivery to be delayed further. Some of the products are not yet finished being produced, and we are working very closely with the manufacturer to identify and resolve the delay.

We understand that the delay is frustrating, but we have an established history of delivering on our promises (see previous kickstarter projects) and hope that all of you will bear with us through this unforeseen delay. Since fulfillment was originally planned to begin this month, we are certainly eager to begin, and hope to be able to get started sooner rather than later.

3) They said on the Kickstarter page that the plan was not to "launch" CAV bones at retail until they had the rulebook and a decent amount of models to support it.

Correction on the 3" bases: "Ah yes, that should be 30 bases for $10 not 10. It is now fixed. Anyone who had previously added to cart will receive the 30, not the 10 it originally said."

asalotti, on 21 Aug 2015 - 1:01 PM, said:
I noticed that with savage avatars 1 and 2 expansions there is the same rhino guy. Is that correct or are they going to change the rhino in expansion 2?
We have already removed the rhino from SA2 and reduced the cost accordingly.

Can someone clarify something as this is my first Reaper KS rodeo...

Is it safe to "spend" my pledge, and lock in an order on the pledge-manager, if I intend to order more later? Will they be good about warning when the cut-off is?

I would wait for someone else as I've only locked in bones 2 in a straight shot without looking back, but I think they'll let you add more, businesses like money

On a 180 degree flip, has anyone canceled a pledge with reaper after the fact before? I'm not exactly a dissatisfied customer or anything, but the money would be better spent on some 'real life curveballs' that have been cropping up. I don't really want to go through a ton of song and dance when I'm not dying for the money, but I'm also starting to dread having *that* many more models coming in =/