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 Jancoran wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
No. i told people who dont play to shut up...actually...

Which is so much better.

It is. Literally.

Which doesn't make it good.

Cool. Take your opinion based on nothing but anecdotes, it seems, to the Dakka discussions thread, make your claim and "move on".

And you've posted nothing to the contrary of said facts of the matter. Not being a prima Donna (more ad hominem...), Im pointing out the massive fallacy that is your post(s).

won't need to wait until Jan 16, we'll have two financial statements to cull from. Given no signs of changing, and unless they do change, it's an easy prediction of declining revenues, little costs cutting left resulting in lower to no profits.

Jancoran wrote:This forum is NOT equipped to deal with an in depth discussion of investments, It's not a place where we can possible plumb the depths of comparing this performance to say...anyone elses? No. This is not the place. Most people here glaze over when you explain how it all works and then respond with "nuh uh" or even worse, try to use big words. That's the worst, because honestly, people believe more stupid things for reasons that SOUND good than they ever do for GOOD SOUND reasons.

So instead of getting baited into an argument that this forum cant handle, and it cant, here's what I'll say instead.

This is unprecedented. it's what people asked for for more than a decade since the first Dark eldar codex dropped: "Faster Updates!" You got it. "More frequent FAQ's". You got it. "Fix 6E" You got it (to the extent any nerd will ever be happier about anything). "Models! More toys and BETTER toys!". You got it. "Kits I dont have to destroy to play as two versions of something". You got it. "Lower the points on over costed units". You got it (hell yeah you REALLY got it but as in all things its an economy of scale so all they did was really make you FEEL better about it and sell more models...kidos to them)

UNprecedented indeed. And there's more coming. They give stores Prize support in the new contract. Most shop owners greedily steal it (literally) and tell you "I contribute tables and shop space" if you dare ask for it. But some are above board and actually let TO's use it.

And they EVEN gave you online versions to buy. You dont have to. I HATE using electronic versions. But it's there.

You asked. they delivered. And we still cant stop being the whiney little beeaches we are about it because when it comes down to it, there will always be some d-bag whose out there hating (all the while cluttering up their shelves with it in a fit of HYPOCRICY).

If you don't play, shut up. If you do play, then you love the game so stop bitching. Neither group is going to crash GW this year so... Just stop.

There is so much wrong there I really don't know where to begin.

For starters yes, this forum can handle serious discussions.. there have been several in Dakka Discussions which have had quite a bit of depth to them as well as coherent, well reasoned responses. They have also had EVIDENCE presented, something you have still failed to do.

Faster updates is good, but people assumed the quality would still be there when they asked for that. FAQs are abysmal by any standards of the industry, and from what I have seen aren't faster at all, there is just one to fix things that should never have made it to print and are all then forgotten about. Hell, I think GKs still have vindicators and predators according to their FAQ. The rest of that is all subjective, many of us don't think they have fixed 6th at all with 7th.

Also where is this prize support, I've not heard a word about it in years since, you know, GW themselves don't even run proper events anymore and it's all left to the individual managers to arrange prizes in their own store. Plus that stuff about store managers stealing it. I call BS on that whole statement, please provide some sort of evidence.

You then attack other posters again instead of their arguments. Not cool. Any don't bypass the swear filter, it is there for a reason.

And lastly no, our options are not 'shut up' if you don't play or 'stop complaining if you do, because you're still clearly loving it'.

Jancoran wrote:No. i told people who dont play to shut up...actually...

Which I still breaking Rule 1. Literally.



While I'm at it I'll ask again, was that sarcasm when you said you are a business man so you know more about the bitz seller at Masterminis?

 Musashi363 wrote:
7th edition is already winning players back?? LOL! Where in their finincial report would you find that empirical evidence?

late to this one but... wait a sec... you want 7th in the financial report? its PRE release was in it and thats it... it wasnt around to be in the damn report lol

 Jancoran wrote:


So now we're onto the "big words" phase. Okay boyo. Lets test your knowledge.

With that level of unnecessary condescension, I'd be surprised if anyone wants to discuss anything with you.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Musashi363 wrote:
7th edition is already winning players back?? LOL! Where in their finincial report would you find that empirical evidence?

late to this one but... wait a sec... you want 7th in the financial report? its PRE release was in it and thats it... it wasnt around to be in the damn report lol

There was a week of sales as well as the preorders and the sales to trade customers. That all does make up a very significant portion of the total sales GW expects to see for any given product.

 Jancoran wrote:


So now we're onto the "big words" phase. Okay boyo. Lets test your knowledge.

What is the dividend a company gives when it makes zero dollars in profits? Great. What were the total dividends per shapre given out since 2010.

Get back to me and let me know what you find, smart guy.

I'm going to enjoy this.

Did I say I was an econ expert? Or are you narrowly trying to focus on one issue? Why not take it up in the actual thread discussing the matter if you're the smart one?

I know what dividends GW gave out in their last financial statement. Zero. Go read that thread and debate with the folks who have the finance knowledge that I research from, but then again they probably are just "know nothing liars" right?

 jonolikespie wrote:


For starters yes, this forum can handle serious discussions...They have also had EVIDENCE presented, something you have still failed to do.

Faster updates is good, but...

Also where is this prize support, I've not heard a word about it in years since, you know, GW themselves don't even run proper events anymore and it's all left to the individual managers to arrange prizes in their own store. Plus that stuff about store managers stealing it. I call BS on that whole statement, please provide some sort of evidence.

You then attack other posters again instead of their arguments. Not cool. Any don't bypass the swear filter, it is there for a reason.

And lastly no, our options are not 'shut up' if you don't play or 'stop complaining if you do, because you're still clearly loving it'.

While I'm at it I'll ask again, was that sarcasm when you said you are a business man so you know more about the bitz seller at Masterminis?

What Im hearing is a lack of knowledge. Let me enlighten you.

1. Games wroskshop provides $800 in prize support to a store each year when they are of a certain buying tier. That you dont KNOW this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Your lack of understanding is THE issue Im talking about.

2. You illustrate it FURTHER by demanding that I provide YOU evidence...a waste of time for me and an unnecessary step. I ALREADY told you what to look at. You just didn't do it. Go back and read. You don't need it from me; and me telling you isnt going to have the desirable effect this will. Before opening your mouth to argue something you arent equipped to, tell me what the dividend was since 2010 at GW. Just...you know...get back to me. I already know the answer. Google it if you dont know. Make sure you look all the way back and add them together. You'll Google it, you;ll find it. then you can go look at um...well almost any other stock. Tell me what theirs was. Lol. Yeah.

3. Im not insulting everyone. Just self righteous types who like to pretend they never insult anyone and also those who predict some colossal collapse in the next year or two. That's just dumb, and not based in ANY kind of reality. Im sorry you don't like hearing it. That you dont like hearing it doesn't make it less true.

4. And yes. I think I can claim more business savvy than some guy who has an internet guy who posts bitz for him. No offense to him, I love entrepreneurial spirit. But his post and more like it are missing ABSOLUTELY critical information. absolutely. And you are too.

If you knew business, you'd know, that you can lose a LOT of money and be better for it. Look up the operating profit of Amazon since it BEGAN. You'll be shocked. It's made nothing. Yes Amazon. Large Cap Growth Stock. what did you expect from a company that has done nothing but be a debt machine since it started?

And not only did GW NOT lose money but they also did NOT put themselves in a worse position moving forward. So some are busy selling that snake oil (such as online retailers who hate and fear the GW legal team), but I'm busy wondering why you don't understand THAT motivation to print crap like that?

If someone wants to have a SERIOUS convo about this, PM me and we can lose the grandstanding for public consumption act. Most of you are just trying to play the good guy role and thats fine. Itsa forum and people play little games like that. But when and if anyone here ACTUALLY wants to talk in good faith, I'll do it. Not here.

Also: no idea about what you're talking about on the filter. but whatever.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Musashi363 wrote:
7th edition is already winning players back?? LOL! Where in their finincial report would you find that empirical evidence?

late to this one but... wait a sec... you want 7th in the financial report? its PRE release was in it and thats it... it wasnt around to be in the damn report lol

Dont explain time continuums to him! Bad form.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:


So now we're onto the "big words" phase. Okay boyo. Lets test your knowledge.

With that level of unnecessary condescension, I'd be surprised if anyone wants to discuss anything with you.

So you dont have an answer?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheKbob wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:


So now we're onto the "big words" phase. Okay boyo. Lets test your knowledge.

What is the dividend a company gives when it makes zero dollars in profits? Great. What were the total dividends per shapre given out since 2010.

Get back to me and let me know what you find, smart guy.

I'm going to enjoy this.

Did I say I was an econ expert? Or are you narrowly trying to focus on one issue? Why not take it up in the actual thread discussing the matter if you're the smart one?

I know what dividends GW gave out in their last financial statement. Zero. Go read that thread and debate with the folks who have the finance knowledge that I research from, but then again they probably are just "know nothing liars" right?

this is so easy to look up. They gave one on JUNE 6 man! You're just so wrong. What else can I tell you?

All I see is raving. How about calmly posting your own facts and making a detailed argument. It seems like you actually have none and would rather go off on people quite rudely.

We're all wrong? Great! Prove it. Point to facts, lay it out. We have a whole thread about it:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/607499.page

And I'm not wrong. The post zero dividends on their annual financial report. They paid them specifically out of surplus cash, from the fifth page of the 2014 annual report:



Also from the report:



Please let me know how a 42% reduction in profits with nearly across the board drop of revenue during the highest volume of releases to date to include poster boys and a new edition of their biggest game is a good indicator. Let me see the error of logic. And again, post it in that thread linked above if you think you're actually correct.

Ok, Rule 1 is actually important on this site. You all agreed to play by it, so please do so.

 TheKbob wrote:
All I see is raving. How about calmly posting your own facts and making a detailed argument. It seems like you actually have none and would rather go off on people quite rudely.

We're all wrong? Great! Prove it. Point to facts, lay it out. We have a whole thread about it:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/607499.page

And I'm not wrong. The post zero dividends on their annual financial report. They paid them specifically out of surplus cash, from the fifth page of the 2014 annual report:

Spoiler:

Dividends
We followed our principle of returning truly surplus cash to shareholders. Dividends of 16 pence per share were paid during the year
(£5.1 million).

Also from the report:

Spoiler:

Beyond next year, the business ought to be able to increase sales (single digit growth, not more) for many years and to provide owners
with a steady flow of dividends. I say ‘ought to’ because no plan survives contact with the enemy and we will not promise what we
cannot deliver — in particular our policy of only returning surplus cash as dividends will remain. We will not borrow (nor engage in fancy
financial engineering) to pay a coupon.
Nevertheless, with or without growth, I expect to see dividends. I am not planning to sell any of my shares.

Please let me know how a 42% in profits with nearly across the board drop of revenue during the highest volume of releases to date to include poster boys and a new edition of their biggest game is a good indicator. Let me see the error of logic. And again, post it in that thread linked above if you think you're actually correct.

June 6th. Dividend. YOU look it up. I gave you the ewxact date. And you know what? There will be another. Not shocking for a PROFITABLE company.

You just ignored the facts I posted and further didn't prove anything. Please stop being rude and posting trivial posts. If you want to continue this little squabble, again, trot on over to the linked thread, post your arguments there, and see if you can prove if you're right. Your arguments are to the contrary of all logic involved in the scenario, so be prepared to have actual evidence.

And for being so business savvy, you're failing to realize that being profitable doesn't mean you're strong just as you previously stated that not being profitable doesn't mean the company is failing. Though, comparing Amazon, a Web 2.0 giant, to that of Games Workshop is as laughable as Tom Kirby comparing himself to Steve Jobs. Have you actually read the annual financial report? Please tell me the business sense in not performing market research, for one.

 Jancoran wrote:
This forum is NOT equipped to deal with an in depth discussion of investments, It's not a place where we can possible plumb the depths of comparing this performance to say...anyone elses? No. This is not the place. Most people here glaze over when you explain how it all works and then respond with "nuh uh" or even worse, try to use big words. That's the worst, because honestly, people believe more stupid things for reasons that SOUND good than they ever do for GOOD SOUND reasons.

So instead of getting baited into an argument that this forum cant handle, and it cant, here's what I'll say instead.

This is unprecedented. it's what people asked for for more than a decade since the first Dark eldar codex dropped: "Faster Updates!" You got it. "More frequent FAQ's". You got it. "Fix 6E" You got it (to the extent any nerd will ever be happier about anything). "Models! More toys and BETTER toys!". You got it. "Kits I dont have to destroy to play as two versions of something". You got it. "Lower the points on over costed units". You got it (hell yeah you REALLY got it but as in all things its an economy of scale so all they did was really make you FEEL better about it and sell more models...kidos to them)

UNprecedented indeed. And there's more coming. They give stores Prize support in the new contract. Most shop owners greedily steal it (literally) and tell you "I contribute tables and shop space" if you dare ask for it. But some are above board and actually let TO's use it.

And they EVEN gave you online versions to buy. You dont have to. I HATE using electronic versions. But it's there.

You asked. they delivered. And we still cant stop being the whiney little beeaches we are about it because when it comes down to it, there will always be some d-bag whose out there hating (all the while cluttering up their shelves with it in a fit of HYPOCRICY).

If you don't play, shut up. If you do play, then you love the game so stop bitching. Neither group is going to crash GW this year so... Just stop.

Attitudes like this is what gives wargamers a bad name.

"I am right and you are wrong, If you quit the game and have reason for it completely on the subject, well that's not even worth acknowledging, you lost your stake in the game by quitting. If you do still play that means if you have any criticism your a whiny little hating douchebag who is a complete hypocrite for continuing to play in spite of these issues."

I've got no issue with people defending GW or people ragging on it, but sheesh... when you need to be so obnoxious to the extent that you have just blindly pushed everyone on the other side of the argument into one of two categories, and then expressed how neither group should be entitled to a voice or opinion, it's like... is this your ACTUAL standpoint on the matter? You believe that GW is great by "default" because EVERYONE with a possible argument against you have opinions that are so poorly conceived (due to no real hole in the opinion itself, just the description of the people stating it) that the people stating it should just be muted, and thus there is nothing left but positive to be said about GW proving you immeasurably right?

Some people in here are arguing your point of view intelligently. This breeds good discussion, and allows onlookers reading to form their own opinions based on responses and discussions to the holes in either argument. The quoted post is not one of these, instead trying to devolve an argument to a level that anyone with any stake in good discussion even those on your side) can not sensibly support. This isn't a forum of children in a schoolyard, where you beat up the guy you were arguing with so that he runs away and you can strut about after hes left convincing all the other kids how the lack of a current counter-argument means you are right. Most people on here are intelligent adults, hence the emphasis on open discussion around these parts.


SIDENOTE: There's plenty of multiplayer games I play that I don't love. Theres a social aspect to it and playing the jankiest cheapest game in the world with friends is worse than sitting home eating an orange by yourself just because "grumblegrumble rulesets! I want to have an opinion but I know if I play the game jancoran will tell me it's invalid because it means I love the game grumblegrumble"

 TheKbob wrote:
All I see is raving. How about calmly posting your own facts and making a detailed argument. It seems like you actually have none and would rather go off on people quite rudely.

Please let me know how a 42% reduction in profits with nearly across the board drop of revenue during the highest volume of releases to date to include poster boys and a new edition of their biggest game is a good indicator. Let me see the error of logic. And again, post it in that thread linked above if you think you're actually correct.

OK, since you asked o nicely (lol) I will explain it.

Profits are...profits. So the first thing is: they made one. Secondly: they made SIGNIFICANT investments. For example, my Contact Manager is an investment. I pay into her in order to get a return on my investment. But she is a cost. and like all overhead, she REDUCED my profits this year. What she ALSO does is creates a renewable income stream for me that, a year after I paid into that investment and sometimes 18 months after, I start to see a repeating return on work she did... A return I would NOT have seen had i NOT paid into her for 18 months. Now I lost money and it could take 24 months for the profits to pay me back before I make a TRUE profit. But cash flow wise, i have dramatically hellped myself much sooner. Cash flow is another issue. sometimes a business will do things to create immediate flow that is not actually profit. The money is coming In BUT only to justify the cost of creating the funnel as in my example. Sometimes that flow does nothing for you EXCEPT keep a valuable employee employed until a different part of the business can use her.

For example, My CSR is overhead, like all employees are. You dont want to hear it, but you are. She does not produce new business, but what she does for us adminstratively is critical. so she is not a PRODUCING overhead but she IS one we need. So we do certain things that even though they dont really create profit (ever) they do create enough FLOW so that she creates no drag on the system.

At some points a business has to invest in creating their income streams and renewing old ones or replacing ones that dont work anymore. Its just like changing parts out on a car. This is what GW did. they poured a ton of money into operations and cut costs where they could on stores to compensate but ultimately the change in strategy cost them money even though it REDUCED THEIR DRAG over the long term. So two things happen.

1. You lose profitability.
2. You can actually lose sales, as moneys are diverted from marketing to more core concerns (development has CLEARLY been their focus in the last 24 months)
3. Once this is done, you make money. Profits increase from reduced drag AND from now the income Streams you spent a ton of money creating.

Ive done this cycle three times in my own business and twice while running others. It's just a cycle. You p[lateau and then you HAVE to invest again. Its a necessary evil. When you do it you lose BOTH productivity (sales) and profits simultaneously. Its inevitable. Any biz owner can tell you if they've gone through a plateau. You just do. And like Amazon, you can loe money for a long time as long as the plan is solid and you can even create those pass through cash flow creators (or as retail calls them, loss leaders) in order to keep capacity up even when capacity isnt being used.

So in answer to your question, GW did EXACTLY this. they went into massive development mode AND cut their sales by getting rid of stores. those stores DID make sales. But they werre the pass through types. they were not :good calories" so to speak. So even though sales appeared lower, this was intentional. but with those sales losses they also removed drag and the new product, 7E is now allowing them to replace the sales without the overhead through the enthusiasm and increased engagement of people both returning to the hobby, renewing their interest in new armies and generally helping retailers offer prize support and other things.

GW has made so many mistakes. Im not telling you otherwise. THEY might not even tell you otherwise. But despite their gaffe's, they made money. They made money BEFORE 2010, but then dividends got much better after and the ups and downs of the STOCK does not reflect the actual dividend performance. The stock lost almost half its value a year after 6E came out. but. Made. A. Profit. and one can easily sayt 6E was their biggest mistake ever as a company. they survived it, corrected for it at great expense and are stronger for it. No wonder the CEO left though. Imagine buying that stock when it was in the 800's and now... Well at least there's dividends. Lol.

The stock price is perception, the dividends are the reality. I think GW has just a little further to go before they finish this plan of theirs and I DONT think that they will REALLY be done until January. I anticipate that is when the codex's will be out and the drain will be over with. Layoffs seem inevitable too once that production cue gets to its logical conclusion. We'll see.

But the idea that they will turn to mist is utter ridiculum based on no reality and it shouldnt take a post like this to explain that.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheKbob wrote:
You just ignored the facts I posted and further didn't prove anything. Please stop being rude and posting trivial posts. If you want to continue this little squabble, again, trot on over to the linked thread, post your arguments there, and see if you can prove if you're right. Your arguments are to the contrary of all logic involved in the scenario, so be prepared to have actual evidence.

And for being so business savvy, you're failing to realize that being profitable doesn't mean you're strong just as you previously stated that not being profitable doesn't mean the company is failing. Though, comparing Amazon, a Web 2.0 giant, to that of Games Workshop is as laughable as Tom Kirby comparing himself to Steve Jobs. Have you actually read the annual financial report? Please tell me the business sense in not performing market research, for one.

Of course I read it.

Alright I was all ready to continue this since I'm off sick today but TheKbob is right, if you want to continue this discussion you'll have to actually discuss it, preferably in the correct thread in Discussions rather than here, rather than continuing to act condescending towards everyone and just throwing out words.

This part I do have to touch on though for the benefit of anyone else reading as I'm not sure everyone who has seen the Future of Games Workshop articles understands this.

 Jancoran wrote:
4. And yes. I think I can claim more business savvy than some guy who has an internet guy who posts bitz for him. No offense to him, I love entrepreneurial spirit. But his post and more like it are missing ABSOLUTELY critical information. absolutely. And you are too.

I have no idea where you got the idea he has anything to do with bitz but I'd wager Michael Bartels has more buisness experience than you. This is from his very first article in the series:

And if you think "Who is this overweight, bold-headed, bearded hobo (that would be me), who thinks he can talk to me about the future of GD & GW", just a quick few lines about myself:

I have been #1 (HUEHUE) Games Workshop and Forge World fan-boy since 1991, when I set my foot into the GW store on Oxford Street, London. In my previous life I worked as the Global CIO of the ALDI Süd group, an international discount retailer with over 4000 stores worldwide. [according to wikipedia that is now actually over 8000 stores] Many of you know them. Now I 'retired' as a full-time nerd, age 42, working only for you . My hobby room holds about as much stock as a small GW store.

Boy, this thread went completely down the tubes didn't it.

Oh, I'll also put it out there that the only results I got from Google about that whole $800 prize support thing was a blog post or two from 2012 saying GW have cut off prize support and a tourney being advertised with $800 worth of prizes in the form of what must be coupons or something with no mention of it coming from GW.

Brace yourselves, the end is near battle-brothers.

 jonolikespie wrote:


I have been #1 (HUEHUE) Games Workshop and Forge World fan-boy since 1991, when I set my foot into the GW store on Oxford Street, London. In my previous life I worked as the Global CIO of the ALDI Süd group, an international discount retailer with over 4000 stores worldwide. [according to wikipedia that is now actually over 8000 stores] Many of you know them. Now I 'retired' as a full-time nerd, age 42, working only for you . My hobby room holds about as much stock as a small GW store.

You can always argue with Wayshuba; he's a CEO of some company or some such business type guru. His posts are both informative and lacking in overt condescension.

Actually, I quite enjoyed Jancoran's post explaining buissiness practice and how GW is applying it

 adamsouza wrote:
Actually, I quite enjoyed Jancoran's post explaining buissiness practice and how GW is applying it

If nothing else he could have done a much better job than Kirby did writing that preamble.

To be sure a half-sane orangutan could have done a better job than Kirby on the preamble much less someone with actual business experience.

Yep, except he missed a massive thing: not only did the cut costs to the bone, since we can see their overhead has not changed from the 2013 to 2014 costs, but they've LOST REVENUE. That's the big thing, crap isn't selling.

The thing is, you're acting like you're giving us a revelation when, if you read that thread I linked (still waiting for you to post there if you think you're right), it's all been broken down by several different individuals who have their own accreditation in business. All outcomes point to "not doing so hot."

There are several rendition of you've said without the ambling "me-me-me" stuff that all get to the core of the matter; bad releases, higher costs, lower sales and all resulting in an extreme drop of profits. Wait until the December report, it'll be even worse. You cannot point to all these "well, I did this and this, it's just this..." Games Workshop released a record amount of content to include an update to Space Marines, their largest selling brand, and released a new ruleset for 7E Warhammer 40k in this last half year. You don't have to be an economic major to see that when someone drops that much "big product" you should see a large revenue increase. We did not.

None of the business sense points towards things being peachy. The posted zero dividend at half year and end of year. Zero. They paid one dividend out of surplus cash, that's it. Better put, their operating expenses are nearly flat year over year while operating profit is down 42%. Are you telling me that's not significant? And I've never mentioned or brought up stock price once, for the record, as it does little to reflect that actual value of the company.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Musashi363 wrote:
7th edition is already winning players back?? LOL! Where in their finincial report would you find that empirical evidence?

late to this one but... wait a sec... you want 7th in the financial report? its PRE release was in it and thats it... it wasnt around to be in the damn report lol

There was a week of sales as well as the preorders and the sales to trade customers. That all does make up a very significant portion of the total sales GW expects to see for any given product.

so first week of sales is all telling in a new edition where before release all i saw was the wait and see approach, then people jumping on board... yeah that week tells me everything.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Musashi363 wrote:
7th edition is already winning players back?? LOL! Where in their finincial report would you find that empirical evidence?

late to this one but... wait a sec... you want 7th in the financial report? its PRE release was in it and thats it... it wasnt around to be in the damn report lol

There was a week of sales as well as the preorders and the sales to trade customers. That all does make up a very significant portion of the total sales GW expects to see for any given product.

so first week of sales is all telling in a new edition where before release all i saw was the wait and see approach, then people jumping on board... yeah that week tells me everything.

GW testified in court that most of their sales occur within a very short time frame after a release. I can't recall the exact time frame to quote it (about a month I think) but the pre order and release week could be very close. Data from the midterm, this coming January, will be very telling.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Musashi363 wrote:
7th edition is already winning players back?? LOL! Where in their finincial report would you find that empirical evidence?

late to this one but... wait a sec... you want 7th in the financial report? its PRE release was in it and thats it... it wasnt around to be in the damn report lol

There was a week of sales as well as the preorders and the sales to trade customers. That all does make up a very significant portion of the total sales GW expects to see for any given product.

so first week of sales is all telling in a new edition where before release all i saw was the wait and see approach, then people jumping on board... yeah that week tells me everything.

As the first couple weeks makes up most of their BRB sells, it is very telling.

GW themselves have said that their sales are heavily front loaded. This means the vast majority of sales of a given book/model are during the week of release. There are lots of anecdotal stories from retailers about a new PP starter selling 7 to 1 over 40k 7th edition.

 Sir Arun wrote:
I dont think there ever has been a time in the 25 year history of Warhammer 40k where two main army codexes were released in such short manner.

I once bought a single GW book at got four army lists. Was even under $20.

 Kojiro wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
I dont think there ever has been a time in the 25 year history of Warhammer 40k where two main army codexes were released in such short manner.

Spoiler:

I once bought a single GW book at got four army lists. Was even under $20.

I'm new to the game, but I once bought a single GW book and little did I know, I too got three army lists! And it was only $33.