Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Or the fact that they are seriously padding the numbers. Yeah, Star wars has worked out great for disney
Yes, I know - and that's not because of "representation" - that's because *they had terrible writers*. Representation isn't a problem - bad writing is.
And where do you think that bad writing comes from? Not from stipulations of consultants and ESG that push that form or "representation" in institutionalised forms? Have you seen the recent qualifiers for the oscars?
Again, I'm not commenting on *all of Star Wars* - I'm commenting on Mandalorian and Clone Wars. Equally as "representative", but massively popular. Why? Because they *were written well*.
the mandalorian went downhill so hard after it turned into Bo katan the series it isn't even funny so saying that it's still massivly popular is a bit of misnomer aswell no?
And my fix would've been to not do that
That's not an answer to the question. Until you can address the actual question, don't bother replying.
I gave you a reply which you, specifically you, can't accept because you artificially moved the posts in your interest. It's still a perfectly valid reply. GW could've also a long time ago fired it's rules writers and replaced them with people that actually know what they are supposed to do, or atleast can write rules propperly, alas couldn't even have that considering the recent addition in HH now could we.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/04/15 18:41:46
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
C: Making custodes now female and or male will only further cripple the universe with a lack of fleshing out actual other gendered subparts, like SoB, SoS, etc..
JNAProductions wrote: Do you honestly believe that representation in non-Marine factions is equal to representation within Marines themselves?(A)
Especially since there's no 'Dex that's entirely female (B). Sisters of Silence are (the smaller) half of Talons. Sisters of Battle can take 885 points and 54 bodies without having to touch any models that are female.
Meanwhile, the only model in the Marine's 'Dex that can arguably be female, Servitors, are (1) Legends and (2) a four-person squad, with a max of three taken since it's not battleline. 12 models, 165 points.(C)
A: Strawman. I never ever thought the balance of the releases was correctly done. It's clear to anyone with their heads on their shoulder Marine overrepresentation and saturation since primaris and even before will longterm and has longterm crippled the universe.
B: Irrelevant the core of those are Either male only or female only. basically semantics.
C: Making custodes now female and or male will only further cripple the universe with a lack of fleshing out actual other gendered subparts, like SoB, SoS, etc..
i don't understand why GW mentioning female custodes exist in a codex short story/on social media means they can't expand the SoB or SoS model ranges? we're talking about two unrelated departments with this. it's like complaining that the waiter refilling people's water isn't in the kitchen helping the chef make your dinner faster
Because GW is GW and a terrible company in regards to expanding the lore and models. They will go with the least effort hence you will see now some token female custodes but nothing relevant for SoB and SoS.
Though arguably consideirng the general quality of the recent books for custodes or the Battle for Garmon for HHgw hasn't produced anything of relevancy for some time now.
Sisters got a whole new range in the past few years so they’re fine for the moment. SoS can’t really expand a lot because their gimmick is “we kill psykers” isn’t that useful since psykers are less prevalent and most armies that use them only put a couple in, except for stuff like Grey Knights or Thousand Sons
At this point, I'm willing to say all the folks doom saying the recent codex as a complete fail, and likely the death of the Custodes as a faction, are simply hating on Custodes having women in the ranks now.
This is not the death of the faction, or 40k, or even the Sisters of Silence. It's simply a retcon. You don't like it. Got it. Anything else to add? Want to tell us what ice cream flavors are ruining ice cream?
Sisters got a whole new range in the past few years so they’re fine for the moment. SoS can’t really expand a lot because their gimmick is “we kill psykers” isn’t that useful since psykers are less prevalent and most armies that use them only put a couple in, except for stuff like Grey Knights or Thousand Sons
as if something like this would prevent GW from making it a full army
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/04/15 18:46:52
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
Or the fact that they are seriously padding the numbers. Yeah, Star wars has worked out great for disney
Yes, I know - and that's not because of "representation" - that's because *they had terrible writers*. Representation isn't a problem - bad writing is.
And where do you think that bad writing comes from?
Bad writers. Simple.
Again, I'm not commenting on *all of Star Wars* - I'm commenting on Mandalorian and Clone Wars. Equally as "representative", but massively popular. Why? Because they *were written well*.
the mandalorian went downhill so hard after it turned into Bo katan the series it isn't even funny so saying that it's still massivly popular is a bit of misnomer aswell no?
Like I said - bad writing. They *could* have written it well, and didn't/couldn't.
Again, representation/whatever ideology you hate isn't why things are written badly. Plenty of shows and material has representation/whatever ideology in spades, *but are actually written well*.
And my fix would've been to not do that
That's not an answer to the question. Until you can address the actual question, don't bother replying.
I gave you a reply which you, specifically you, can't accept. It's still a perfectly valid reply.
No, it isn't. You didn't and evidentally, cannot, answer the question posed to you.
It's like being asked "if I've bought two apples, and one apple costs one euro, how much do I need to pay", and you turning round and saying "well, I wouldn't buy two apples".If you can't accept the reality of the situation and the conditions of the question being asked, then you're not answering the question.
Stop being obtuse, and either answer the question, or kindly, do something better with both of our time.
JNAProductions wrote: Do you honestly believe that representation in non-Marine factions is equal to representation within Marines themselves?(A)
Especially since there's no 'Dex that's entirely female (B). Sisters of Silence are (the smaller) half of Talons. Sisters of Battle can take 885 points and 54 bodies without having to touch any models that are female.
Meanwhile, the only model in the Marine's 'Dex that can arguably be female, Servitors, are (1) Legends and (2) a four-person squad, with a max of three taken since it's not battleline. 12 models, 165 points.(C)
A: Strawman. I never ever thought the balance of the releases was correctly done. It's clear to anyone with their heads on their shoulder Marine overrepresentation and saturation since primaris and even before will longterm and has longterm crippled the universe.
B: Irrelevant the core of those are Either male only or female only. basically semantics.
C: Making custodes now female and or male will only further cripple the universe with a lack of fleshing out actual other gendered subparts, like SoB, SoS, etc..
i don't understand why GW mentioning female custodes exist in a codex short story/on social media means they can't expand the SoB or SoS model ranges? we're talking about two unrelated departments with this. it's like complaining that the waiter refilling people's water isn't in the kitchen helping the chef make your dinner faster
Because GW is GW and a terrible company in regards to expanding the lore and models. They will go with the least effort hence you will see now some token female custodes but nothing relevant for SoB and SoS.
Though arguably consideirng the general quality of the recent books for custodes or the Battle for Garmon for HHgw hasn't produced anything of relevancy for some time now.
Sisters got a whole new range in the past few years so they’re fine for the moment. SoS can’t really expand a lot because their gimmick is “we kill psykers” isn’t that useful since psykers are less prevalent and most armies that use them only put a couple in, except for stuff like Grey Knights or Thousand Sons
Sisters of Silence used to be we are immune to psykers and kill Psykers and Daemons and also a varied number of units in the lore - including cyber beast handlers, jetbikes,
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
C: Making custodes now female and or male will only further cripple the universe with a lack of fleshing out actual other gendered subparts, like SoB, SoS, etc..
Based on?
Well, aside from the DEATH OF EVERY faction that has female in it? Member when SoB were powerful, or no wait, what about Eldar, no wait, what about Dark Eldar, no wait, what about Guard?!? See? They're all dead now....because females got into their factions!! (/s)
C: Making custodes now female and or male will only further cripple the universe with a lack of fleshing out actual other gendered subparts, like SoB, SoS, etc..
Based on?
Well, aside from the DEATH OF EVERY faction that has female in it? Member when SoB were powerful, or no wait, what about Eldar, no wait, what about Dark Eldar, no wait, what about Guard?!? See? They're all dead now....because females got into their factions!! (/s)
If you strawman any harder i have to assume your profession is farmer.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: At this point, I'm willing to say all the folks doom saying the recent codex as a complete fail, and likely the death of the Custodes as a faction, are simply hating on Custodes having women in the ranks now.
This is not the death of the faction, or 40k, or even the Sisters of Silence. It's simply a retcon. You don't like it. Got it. Anything else to add? Want to tell us what ice cream flavors are ruining ice cream?
#Wherearethefemaleogryns
female ogryns have been here the whole time! blame the officers of the imperial guard for not being able to see the beauty of a female ogryn
Sisters got a whole new range in the past few years so they’re fine for the moment. SoS can’t really expand a lot because their gimmick is “we kill psykers” isn’t that useful since psykers are less prevalent and most armies that use them only put a couple in, except for stuff like Grey Knights or Thousand Sons
After GW had to realise during the end of the kirby era when they marginaly improved due to a survey that the demand for fleshed out SOB was there. The demand for SoB was always there. Gw just prefers to do it's things and could save a production line hence also the marines marines marines that are primaris. SoS on the other hand have allways been an afterthought shoved into Custodes in a way that made it obvious that they were an afterthought.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/04/15 19:23:14
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Or the fact that they are seriously padding the numbers. Yeah, Star wars has worked out great for disney
Yes, I know - and that's not because of "representation" - that's because *they had terrible writers*. Representation isn't a problem - bad writing is.
And where do you think that bad writing comes from?
Bad writers. Simple.
Again, I'm not commenting on *all of Star Wars* - I'm commenting on Mandalorian and Clone Wars. Equally as "representative", but massively popular. Why? Because they *were written well*.
the mandalorian went downhill so hard after it turned into Bo katan the series it isn't even funny so saying that it's still massivly popular is a bit of misnomer aswell no?
Like I said - bad writing. They *could* have written it well, and didn't/couldn't.
Again, representation/whatever ideology you hate isn't why things are written badly. Plenty of shows and material has representation/whatever ideology in spades, *but are actually written well*.
Agreed. To bring in another Franchise: 3 of the new Star Trek Series are actually good, 2 are rubbish. All of them are inclusive and show diversity. Sometimes you just happen to have terrible writers.
I can't really comment on the success, but Strange New Worlds is at least very positively perceived while Discovery is not, both of them showing the same amount of diversity. People that like to say "go woke go broke" and stuff like that usually overlook more important problems the respective movies have. (Maybe trek is not the best example because it always was inclusive and had representation and doesn't have to reach for new groups necessarily... on the other hand maybe it turned 60 years with 11 series because it was "woke" before that was cool. )
Or the fact that they are seriously padding the numbers. Yeah, Star wars has worked out great for disney
Yes, I know - and that's not because of "representation" - that's because *they had terrible writers*. Representation isn't a problem - bad writing is.
And where do you think that bad writing comes from?
Bad writers. Simple.
Again, I'm not commenting on *all of Star Wars* - I'm commenting on Mandalorian and Clone Wars. Equally as "representative", but massively popular. Why? Because they *were written well*.
the mandalorian went downhill so hard after it turned into Bo katan the series it isn't even funny so saying that it's still massivly popular is a bit of misnomer aswell no?
Like I said - bad writing. They *could* have written it well, and didn't/couldn't.
Again, representation/whatever ideology you hate isn't why things are written badly. Plenty of shows and material has representation/whatever ideology in spades, *but are actually written well*.
Agreed. To bring in another Franchise: 3 of the new Star Trek Series are actually good, 2 are rubbish. All of them are inclusive and show diversity. Sometimes you just happen to have terrible writers.
I can't really comment on the success, but Strange New Worlds is at least very positively perceived while Discovery is not, both of them showing the same amount of diversity. People that like to say "go woke go broke" and stuff like that usually overlook more important problems the respective movies have. (Maybe trek is not the best example because it always was inclusive and had representation and doesn't have to reach for new groups necessarily... on the other hand maybe it turned 60 years with 11 series because it was "woke" before that was cool. )
Lower Decks also does this. Plenty of representation but it doesn’t make it the center of the series so it just naturally flows into the often insane stories.
A bit of a tangent but I don’t think we can assume a couple of things.
Firstly, that Custodes models will continue to be cross-system between HH and 40k. While proper scaling was one of the main reasons for Primaris, it also meant we ‘couldn’t’ use them in HH where everyone is firstborn(ish) scale.
Maybe I am paranoid but with GW’s continuous restriction of cross-system armies, it isn’t outside the bounds of reason that we get separate HH and 40K versions of Custodes. One scaled to tower over Firstborn, the other over Primaris.
So given their love or retcon we could end up with the OG Custodes reverting to being male only, while the upscaled 40K Custodes retain both males and females.
Souleater wrote: A bit of a tangent but I don’t think we can assume a couple of things.
Firstly, that Custodes models will continue to be cross-system between HH and 40k. While proper scaling was one of the main reasons for Primaris, it also meant we ‘couldn’t’ use them in HH where everyone is firstborn(ish) scale.
Maybe I am paranoid but with GW’s continuous restriction of cross-system armies, it isn’t outside the bounds of reason that we get separate HH and 40K versions of Custodes. One scaled to tower over Firstborn, the other over Primaris.
So given their love or retcon we could end up with the OG Custodes reverting to being male only, while the upscaled 40K Custodes retain both males and females.
No, there are no different scales, apart some old marine kits that have not been updated. The primaris marines just are bigger. The new HH marines and the newer CSM are the same size, and normal humans in both systems are the same size.
Not gonna engage with most of this thread. Just gonna say that I'm happy with female Custodes and I'm on record in this forum as advocating for it.
As for "40k is fluid, maaan" I'll just say "sorta". There's a limit. Female Custodes isn't an issue. They're a recently introduced and fairly niche faction.
This thread is absolutely more of what I expected from the venerable dakka dakka then the general one. guess the mods for this subforum have a lighter touch
I for one am now shocked, disgusted, and appalled.
What happened to the Custodes? Hmm? I was appalled shocked and disgusted that change happened. So disgusted, appalled and shocked that I put John Blanche through the bill and sent the model my foot.
This is the only Custodes. The original Custodes.
CHANGE AM NOT ALLOWEDS.
And if everyone else doesn’t immediately burn their 40K books published outside of 1987?
I’ll thcweam and thcweam and thcweam until I sick!
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
I remember genuinely being a tad annoyed when they changed the Custodes to be superhuman giants. Originally they were just shirtless blokes with laser spears. 😂
This has nothing to do with lore, advancement or recon. GW will be driven by the bottom line. If Female custodies (which I love the idea of btw) end up being popular, they will bring it in more (probably into the SM range somehow). If it makes them easier to get the franchise “out there”, think Amazon show or feature film, they will make that move.
BUT if this backfires and proves detrimental to their ability to make money then as its only a very small subset of the 40K model range and figures, they will stop. It’s the smallest change they could make in this direction.
I am sort of bemused at this idea GW's going to roll out some whole "female Custodes range". You might get a character. You might get some head swaps. You might well get nothing beyond this one bit of fluff.
I'm sort of non-kidding +1 for going back to not so much Rogue Trader, but 2nd Ed lore. I feel Custodes, Sisters of Silence and yes, Grey Knights, have all suffered for being "armie-ified". To my mind these things should have been more like Assassins. They exist in the fluff. You can play them in game. But its a handful of models at most, that should be 150-300 points each, with all the upsides and downsides that brings.
But the ship has somewhat sailed.
It might be against the rules - but to chip in on the woke/non woke argument, I agree the issue "is" in the writing - but usually that's the difference of being woke or not. TNG, Deep Space Nine, Voyager etc were certainly "Progressive". But apart from maybe the most preachy of episodes, I don't remember ever thinking it was woke. Episodes covering political dilemmas were usually not expressed as [protagonist] says [contemporary rightwing opinion is bad] because [lol, how could anyone real who wasn't comically evil ever be rightwing?]. Discovery by contrast did this seemingly every other episode. Its just bad writing.
To be arrogant, its the difference between a sort of liberal rationalism and fighting a culture war. "Here's some persuasive arguments for why should agree with me" vs "you are bad and you should feel bad".
Basically its a writing thing - but its the mentality behind the writing thing. Which I think is why certain things at say Disney, Super Hero movies in general have all deteriorated together.
But anyway - I don't think this has much impact on GW having a throw away line that yes, there are female Custodes now. The claim there always were is a lie, which sort of insults the intelligence like any lie, but oh well. What's that Blizzard, you were planning the comedically crap Shadowlands story while writing Warcraft 3 decades previously? No, no you weren't.
One day there will inevitably be female Marines and after much salt that will turnout to not matter that much either.
Also the Custodes rules suck and I feel a bit bad for their players but not that bad as their obnoxious "you can't really hurt me if I get a bit above average on saves but I'm going to delete you if we connect" has always been infuriating. Then again I guess you could argue the same with say Death Guard and I like them. So maybe its just an anti-Imperial policy.
)
