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Made in us
Flashy Flashgitz





St Louis

 techsoldaten wrote:
 TheDraconicLord wrote:
We'll demand pics, videos, whatever to see the awesomeness


Speaking of which, it's been a while since we have seen any pictures, tenebre. You are disappointing a group of around 56 strangers from various first world countries, plus however many lurkers have seen this thread. Cmon now.


I will have the first unit of repainted models in hand this weekend or early next week (waiting on post) I will then make a video of the models and pictures to go along with it. i will start a painting blog post to follow that progress.

Orks! ~28000
Chaos Dwarfs ~9000
Slaanesh ~14700

Gaming Mayhem on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/MovieMayhem6

Ork P&M Blog: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/625538.page#7400396

 
   
Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor




At a Place, Making Dolls Great Again

 heartserenade wrote:
Hey, to be fair we all have that one friend who we thought is okay even when he's a little bit quirky. And you discover too late that... he's really not okay and that quirkiness is more creepy than you initially thought.


it's true the dolls quickly frighten most everyone off...'cept my doll collecting friends
GW said I wouldn't be allowed to play with Imperial Knight Zoey in the store, how mean.

Most I ever charged for a paint job was 500 dollars, and I painted about... a quarter of it. I outsourced it to other people (as I often do) and the centerpiece models were painted far better then I could hope to do.
The guy found that hilarious, so did my parents.

Make Dolls Great Again
Clover/Trump 2016
For the United Shelves of America! 
   
Made in ph
Utilizing Careful Highlighting





Manila, Philippines

I'm not from a first world country...


 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 heartserenade wrote:
I'm not from a first world country...


I was unaware that the Philippines were not considered first world. You have my apologies, sir.

   
Made in se
Been Around the Block





To the OP

This is just my personal feeling but that shawn, (or what he is called) old dude from Blue Table, gives me the creeps.. It's just something about how he acts and speaks that make all my alarm signals flash red..

I also think they handled this issue very badly.. and they should not charge that kind of money for painting miniatures unless they have some skillz to back it up...
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






TBH, I think that is there mo. Armies done ok, for "cheap" and " fast" with no quality really. They are the foxconn of painting

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran





Sweden

 zlayer77 wrote:
To the OP

This is just my personal feeling but that shawn, (or what he is called) old dude from Blue Table, gives me the creeps.. It's just something about how he acts and speaks that make all my alarm signals flash red..

I also think they handled this issue very badly.. and they should not charge that kind of money for painting miniatures unless they have some skillz to back it up...


I used to watch their videos (obviously not anymore) but I usually muted the sounds because that guys voice creeped me out.. His whole body language is creepy..

An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.  
   
Made in us
[DCM]
-






-

At this point I think a reminder to stay on topic here is in order.

Please stay on point, and avoid comments which might lead to problems.

In other words - Rule #1, even for people not directly involved in the discussion here.

   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran





Sweden

My bad..

An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Alpharius, I have a question, and I hope this doesn't come across wrong. Where is the line drawn with Rule #1? Normally I'd ask in a PM but, I'm about to sign off for bed and it pertains to this thread.

Since Shawn owns BTP, and his behavior is in question constantly with shifty behavior, would it be okay to say he acts like a Snake Oil Salesman but, not that his voice/body is creepy/ugly/, correct? Since a behavior isn't the same as calling someone out on appearance, right? I mean this whole thread is about BTP's behavior against a client. Actually, swap Shawn with X and BTP with Y. When discussing any company is okay to say X acts shifty/strange/scammy as the owner of Y?

Just asking cause maybe it will help us not get this thread locked as many end up that way.

Anyways. To be OT, I got carried away there, oops. Is there any news on Ten's units being painted? I can't wait to see them after seeing that one model being redone.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/22 04:35:27


My mostly terrain and Sons of Orar blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/568699.page#6349942
 whalemusic360 wrote:
Alph, I expect like 90 sets of orange/blue from you.
 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Missouri

 Stormwall wrote:
Anyways. To be OT, I got carried away there, oops. Is there any news on Ten's units being painted? I can't wait to see them after seeing that one model being redone.


 tenebre wrote:
I will have the first unit of repainted models in hand this weekend or early next week (waiting on post) I will then make a video of the models and pictures to go along with it. i will start a painting blog post to follow that progress.

 Desubot wrote:
Why isnt Slut Wars: The Sexpocalypse a real game dammit.


"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game." 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

I think it's better for us to address that by PM, Stormwall, if the below does not clarify it for you, soas not to derail the thread into a discussion about what is / isn't allowed. Briefly, a good rule of thumb is that saying "BTP is terrible" would likely be fine with the right reasons/justification (just a review of a business, basically) but saying "Shawn is a terrible person" is usually going to be out of bounds. We have no reason to keep a thread about an individual open, and although I know that line blurs with small businesses, generally directing your comments at the business and not the personal character of the owner is best. There is some leeway here if/when relevant, but if that becomes the main focus, then the post/thread isn't the kind of thing appropriate for Dakka (whereas a wargaming business review definitely is). Please PM to discuss further if anything isn't clear!

 tenebre wrote:

I will have the first unit of repainted models in hand this weekend or early next week (waiting on post) I will then make a video of the models and pictures to go along with it. i will start a painting blog post to follow that progress.

Looking forward to this, that would make a great painting blog! You could even link to it in the OP here, a bit ofa redemption story
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Omadon's Realm

 Stormwall wrote:
Alpharius, I have a question, and I hope this doesn't come across wrong. Where is the line drawn with Rule #1? Normally I'd ask in a PM but, I'm about to sign off for bed and it pertains to this thread.

Since Shawn owns BTP, and his behavior is in question constantly with shifty behavior, would it be okay to say he acts like a Snake Oil Salesman but, not that his voice/body is creepy/ugly/, correct? Since a behavior isn't the same as calling someone out on appearance, right? I mean this whole thread is about BTP's behavior against a client. Actually, swap Shawn with X and BTP with Y. When discussing any company is okay to say X acts shifty/strange/scammy as the owner of Y?

Just asking cause maybe it will help us not get this thread locked as many end up that way.

Anyways. To be OT, I got carried away there, oops. Is there any news on Ten's units being painted? I can't wait to see them after seeing that one model being redone.


Damning someone's business practices, on being presented with evidence of their business practices, is different to suggestions they are some form of sexual predator based on their voice. Calling someone out on how they interact with other people is different to saying 'that guy's eyebrows meet in the middle, lets burn him as a warlock/potential rapist/real estate salesman.

I've personally, for example, always thought Shawn sounded a lot like 'The Hooded Claw' from the Penelope Pitstop cartoons, but that's not pertinent to how his company does or does not meet customer expectations for a highly expensive cottage industry, so I don't tend to bring it up and wouldn't go to the effort to post it here as a stand alone post.




 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Okay. That's kinda what I had originally thought but, it felt right to ask. I apologize for the derailment and distraction but, thanks Tides and Stompa for answering.

 RiTides wrote:
 tenebre wrote:

I will have the first unit of repainted models in hand this weekend or early next week (waiting on post) I will then make a video of the models and pictures to go along with it. i will start a painting blog post to follow that progress.

Looking forward to this, that would make a great painting blog! You could even link to it in the OP here, a bit ofa redemption story


I hope this is the direction this is going to as well, and I'm hoping the other thread that involves BTP as well doesn't go south either. Judging from the quality of work that we have seen so far, the entire repaint should be good. Like I said before, I can't wait to see it in the next week or so as he stated. I am also kinda curious if at the end of all of this we get to see the painter/company who redid them so we can send business their way as sort of good will.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/22 18:17:41


My mostly terrain and Sons of Orar blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/568699.page#6349942
 whalemusic360 wrote:
Alph, I expect like 90 sets of orange/blue from you.
 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun




New Orleans, LA

I saw in the thread people were looking for BTP painting levels explained and here is one I found.. Not sure if these got answered, didn't read all the pages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7gkXVuUz4E&feature=youtu.be&t=3m9s

Men have become tools of their tools.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Omadon's Realm

 Macharius. wrote:
I saw in the thread people were looking for BTP painting levels explained and here is one I found.. Not sure if these got answered, didn't read all the pages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7gkXVuUz4E&feature=youtu.be&t=3m9s


That's the older version, Shawn at Blue Table deleted the more recent one.



 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






I just think that it is fantastic that the community has rallied around Tenebrae, and so many painters and studios have offered to help him

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







For some reason this just popped up on my youtube feed. Interesting to see something from 5 years ago from BTP.



Did I just wander into an episode of The Office? Do the dance, Brent!


This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/11/23 22:58:03


   
Made in se
Been Around the Block





 Casey's Law wrote:
For some reason this just popped up on my youtube feed. Interesting to see something from 5 years ago from BTP.


Haha It is sad that we dont have anny free "say what you want Table-top" forums. I have alot of gak i would like to say to X and Y about how you should treat your customers.. But sadly we can't on these boards..

But OP you have my support and I think you have alot of cool miniatures (as I have seen in your videos). And it is a dam shame that BTP(who obviously cant paint for gak) got their dirty hands on them... It should be a crime to destroy miniatures like that...
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 zlayer77 wrote:
 Casey's Law wrote:
For some reason this just popped up on my youtube feed. Interesting to see something from 5 years ago from BTP.


Haha It is sad that we dont have anny free "say what you want Table-top" forums. I have alot of gak i would like to say to X and Y about how you should treat your customers.. But sadly we can't on these boards..


You could try 4-chan.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/24 00:38:12


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







 zlayer77 wrote:
Haha It is sad that we dont have anny free "say what you want Table-top" forums. I have alot of gak i would like to say to X and Y about how you should treat your customers.. But sadly we can't on these boards..
Ahahaha! I better go get the fascist MODs to bane you, eh? Quick get your tinfoil hat ready!

The first wave of Ten's models should be coming back in the next couple of days right? Exciting times, I'm really looking forward to this. I wonder if there is something constructive the community can take from this whole experience with BTP, any suggestions? Could we appeal to them to make a statement/apology?

   
Made in us
[DCM]
-






-

You can certainly state your opinion on how things should or should not be.

What you cannot do is what MGS already stated rather nicely.

   
Made in gb
Dipping With Wood Stain



Welwyn Garden City, Herts

 zlayer77 wrote:

Haha It is sad that we dont have anny free "say what you want Table-top" forums. I have alot of gak i would like to say to X and Y about how you should treat your customers.. But sadly we can't on these boards..


http://frothersunite.com/phpBB3/

Site Faq posted below - I'm hoping the bad word filter here works automatically, but (for the mods) I'll scan it through once it posts and take out anything I see it misses

Spoiler:
Frothers Unite! UK Issues
Help, someone said some rude words!
Someone said poo again, in a public forum? Dash it all to high heaven. Seriously, FU!UK is a place for everyone to kick back and relax, away from the heavy moderation and careful diplomacy of some other, more “professional” websites. Say what you feel, rant, rave and abuse each other because the moderators here will assume you are all grown up enough that you don’t need protecting from rude words (and frankly don’t give a feth in any case). If you take serious offence at a post someone has made, it may be that the moderator will need to step in and take charge... or it may be that you need to take a step back and lighten up a bit. This might not suit everyone but there you are. In general, if you don’t like what someone has said to you then you can either ignore them, or call them a witch. Either works.
Top
OK but this is really inappropriate material.
Porn and spam we will act on of course, please report these to a moderator who will delete the post. We do sometimes get rogue spambots peppering the boards with their evil Russian crap, just be sensible and remember not to click any links in a post that makes no sense, and don’t reply to any spam posts as it just makes the cleanup job harder. Registered members can now opt to ignore all posts made by their mortal enemies, if these are really spoiling their enjoyment of the site, using the using the Friend and Foes system.
Top
Where is the registration agreement then? Or code of conduct?
Code of conduct? Hahaha! Oh sorry, you were being serious. #kof#

OK so we took it down cos the default one wasn’t really relevant to what we do here and we haven’t really established a new one... one noble contributor (DemonEtrigan) supplied this draft which is quite well favoured and might serve as a good stopgap:

“Beware, by registering on this site you agree to the fact that you are at least the physical age to be considered an adult wherever the hell you come from. Unfortunately we can’t (and don’t want) to enforce a set of stupid rules that anybody who can live in normal society should already know. Just so you understand, people in here swear, take the lords name in vain, insult people, argue, swear, make reference to bodily functions and occasionally post links to disreputable sites....If any of that is likely to offend you, get the hell back to where you came from. By registering on this site you give up all rights to complain about being hurt, or offended by anything you read....Grow up!”

Thanks for that DemonE. Oh and we don’t need a COPPA agreement because we aren’t US based. If you don’t know what that is then don’t bother looking it up, its very dull.
Top
Are there no rules at all then?
There is one exception to our laissez-faire attitude to moderation. Frothers want a secure and relaxed environment where they are free to abuse each other without impediment, so to preserve our sanctum of anarchy we will take action against anyone abusing the forum itself.

In addition to the aforementioned spam and porn posts this includes creating spoof accounts (where it is not obvious that the account is a spoof), hijacking usernames or accounts, posting a rude word 400,000 times without spaces to feth up the page formatting and anything else that gives everyone (especially the moderators) a massive headache without being in the least bit funny.

Having a larf is fine, and if you are pushing the limits our first action will be a gentle nudge, but deliberate and repeated abuse will result in the webmaster sending his fighting uruk-monkeys to your house to move all of your furniture around while you are out.

No doubt some of you excellent creative types will find new and ingenious ways to spoil everyone’s enjoyment of the site to the extent that more rules will need to be grudgingly knocked together in the future and applied by the unpaid servants of the site. Just be aware that people who do such things on purpose are known, in the vernacular, as gak-licking zombie-fiddlers, have no friends, and never will.
Top
I am a miniatures/rpg/ccg/wargames company, can I post here?
Well of course you can. There are certain important things to bear in mind though.

Frothers Unite! UK is home to a wide range of professionals and experts who like to chill out after/during/instead of a hard days work. However it is chiefly a consumer site and they are mostly here in their role as consumers, with all the other schmoes, albeit as ones with an eye for different details. If you are lucky they will lend you the benefit of their wisdom (if you are really lucky they will stop after a while).
You are welcome to post news items on the appropriate forums, but do bear in mind that any comments in response will not be filtered or censored. Its a discussion board not a free advertising service. Sometimes its better to give us an idea and point us to the advertising blurb, if this is very long and likely to challenge attention spans- you don’t want people to be tired and irritable when they get to the bottom of your post, ’cos thats where the “reply” button is.
You are welcome to come and post as yourself, on any topic and in any vein, and kick back with the rest of us. Do bear in mind it is easy to get carried away in the atmosphere engendered by our laissez-faire, devil-may-care attitude to web etiquette and the anarchic crowd it seems to attract.

Be sensible - if you are posting under your professional name then don’t post anything that you wouldn’t want associated with your business. By all means maintain separate identities for professional and personal posting... its ok if everyone knows that “jamesF” is head of Tangent Figures Ltd but if he posted “fetharsepoo hahahaha” under his “Tangent Figures” login then the investors might not be too pleased.
Top
My livelihood is threatened by posters on your board giving a poor review to my products!
Oh feth off. Sorry but this isn’t a fanboy site like you might be used to, you aren’t supporting us with advertising revenue and there are no rules here about toning down an honest review to pass some sanitation test. Our tips to deal with such “threats” to your livelihood:

Take it on the chin - the criticism might be a lot harsher than you are used to, this is partly because we do not censor reader comments (see above) and partly because coming up with a great insult for a mediocre product is often better sport than providing balanced review. Yes we might get carried away sometimes but you will certainly get a more positive response by acknowledging criticism in good humour than by whinging. Mi casa, mis reglas.
If, under any hyperbole, there is a genuine misconception about your product, point this out and show us how wrong we are (a bad picture, for example, can lead people to believe a product line is worse than it actually is). Before you say it, no, holding a product in your hand is not neccessary to pointing out that it looks rubbish, but if bad pictures lead us to think so then we are doing you a favour by pointing that out. Its called public service bitching.
If, under any hyberbole, there is no reasoned critcism of your product at all, you could just ignore it or you could point out the failing. Sometimes people need a big nudge to articulate what they dislike about something and sometimes they are unable to get beyond “don’t like it”, in which case simply pointing this out demonstrates that the criticism is just down to a personal taste and is unlikely to sway other punters.
If your product is genuinely gak I’m afraid you are better off finding this out before you invest any more money in it. Anyway we’ve got no sympathy, you should have done some consumer testing before you launched.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/24 09:11:05


   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Omadon's Realm

forums are not nations, you are afforded zero rights on posting in one, save the right to decide you don't like the rules and leave. All forums are dictatorships, under the rule of their owners and policed by their moderators, the question is whether they are benevolent and tolerant dictatorships or draconian.

I find Dakka to be a very benevolent dictatorship, I have found other forums, other large wargaming forums, to be verymuch the reverse. I'm pleased to both use this forum and financially contribute to it, small as that donation is.

"You've never had it so good!" springs to mind.

Anyway, the suppression or lack thereof, of speech on dakka is entirely offtopic and we need to keep this one on target. It's far past time Blue Table came under real scrutiny and was placed, wriggling, under the microscope and held there for a degree of time, it's pulled some shady practices in the past, just enough to get away with without drawing down the full ire of the community, this incident, however, has surpassed that and spilled directly into taking someone's money for a stupidly subpar product.

Focus on Blue Table and lets hold them to account here, this time, instead of allowing this thread to veer off into trivial digression, something that would doubtless please Shawn Gately immensely.





 
   
Made in gr
Furious Fire Dragon





Athens Greece

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
forums are not nations, you are afforded zero rights on posting in one, save the right to decide you don't like the rules and leave. All forums are dictatorships, under the rule of their owners and policed by their moderators, the question is whether they are benevolent and tolerant dictatorships or draconian.

I find Dakka to be a very benevolent dictatorship, I have found other forums, other large wargaming forums, to be verymuch the reverse. I'm pleased to both use this forum and financially contribute to it, small as that donation is.

"You've never had it so good!" springs to mind.

Anyway, the suppression or lack thereof, of speech on dakka is entirely offtopic and we need to keep this one on target. It's far past time Blue Table came under real scrutiny and was placed, wriggling, under the microscope and held there for a degree of time, it's pulled some shady practices in the past, just enough to get away with without drawing down the full ire of the community, this incident, however, has surpassed that and spilled directly into taking someone's money for a stupidly subpar product.

Focus on Blue Table and lets hold them to account here, this time, instead of allowing this thread to veer off into trivial digression, something that would doubtless please Shawn Gately immensely.




I totally agree with all the above. Don't let this thread slip into off topic oblivion for BTP has to put down some answers one way or another.

Got milk?

All I can say about painting is that VMC tastes much better than VMA... especially black...

PM me if you are interested in Commission work.
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
-






-

It is getting close to that, to be honest.

Re-focus in here people!

   
Made in se
Been Around the Block





 MeanGreenStompa wrote:


Anyway, the suppression or lack thereof, of speech on dakka is entirely offtopic and we need to keep this one on target. It's far past time Blue Table came under real scrutiny and was placed, wriggling, under the microscope and held there for a degree of time, it's pulled some shady practices in the past, just enough to get away with without drawing down the full ire of the community, this incident, however, has surpassed that and spilled directly into taking someone's money for a stupidly subpar product.

Focus on Blue Table and lets hold them to account here, this time, instead of allowing this thread to veer off into trivial digression, something that would doubtless please Shawn Gately immensely.




I agree, now I'm going to stay on topic and ask something, Over the years I have heard "negative things about BTP", it pops up from time to time. This has lead me to belive that BTP is a below avrage provider of the service they are selling. But I was totaly in the dark about what prices they were charging for the standard they where delivering.

Now comes the question Would the Table top Community benefit from a Review site/tube, that gives honest feedback on the people who provide painting services?
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 zlayer77 wrote:

I agree, now I'm going to stay on topic and ask something, Over the years I have heard "negative things about BTP", it pops up from time to time. This has lead me to belive that BTP is a below avrage provider of the service they are selling. But I was totaly in the dark about what prices they were charging for the standard they where delivering.

Now comes the question Would the Table top Community benefit from a Review site/tube, that gives honest feedback on the people who provide painting services?


Have been asking myself this same question, if there's a way to ensure things like this never happen by crowdsourcing reviews of product / service providers through a community site.

Tenebre's experience has shed a lot of light on other situations that people who are less articulate / more financially strapped have had to deal with. There's a lot of leverage in the hands of providers to force deals on people that are not in their interests.


   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







I think we should be asking BTP to make a statement to the community. This is sliding out of focus exactly how it has before when they've attracted heat. Unless something new is done here then it's just going to keep happening. How about a letter asking for a statement, names/usernames attached in petition and then emailed directly to BTP?

   
Made in us
Flashy Flashgitz





St Louis

 Casey's Law wrote:
I think we should be asking BTP to make a statement to the community. This is sliding out of focus exactly how it has before when they've attracted heat. Unless something new is done here then it's just going to keep happening. How about a letter asking for a statement, names/usernames attached in petition and then emailed directly to BTP?


So far they have made statements that are misrepresentations or just outright not true. not sure how this would matter?

Keep in mind BTP asserts I received what i deserved and they did nothing wrong (outside of a few QC issues). This is the problem at hand. and in this situation, which that mentality, I dont see how anything would make a difference. They have said publicly that my project doesn't matter because they do so many.

Orks! ~28000
Chaos Dwarfs ~9000
Slaanesh ~14700

Gaming Mayhem on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/MovieMayhem6

Ork P&M Blog: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/625538.page#7400396

 
   
 
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