Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Edit:

I've had a bunch of requests from people who wanted to see some pictures of the models fully assembled and painted, so I painted some up for all to see.  I'm not the best painter in the world, but I think you'll still enjoy seeing how this project has gone from concept to reality. 

 

Some of my fellow Imperial Guard players from around the world and myself are tired of waiting for GW or forgeworld to put female cadians on the sprues in a decade or so.  According to GW fluff, half of cadians should be female, and we want our armies to represent that.  So, instead of waiting, we are pooling our money together and hiring a professional sculptor and we are going to make it happen ourselves.

The sculptor is going to make a torso and a pair of heads, one with goggles like in the concept art, and another made so that you can put the empty helmet right onto it.  Since these will be made entirely out of greenstuff, we can cast them and make copies without breaking IP rules.

Here's the concept art, originally drawn by The Green Witch on 40K online:

The sculptor used to sculpt for Cell Emtertainment, which was responsable for such things as Krash, Ronin, 1999, Hybrid, and some others. 
Here's a link to some of his work on CMON.  Obviously, this example is a lot bustier then what we would want for a female cadian, but I think it shows that he has the skills to pull this off.
www.coolminiornot.com/70579

 

If anyone is interested in joining in, send me a PM.  It costs $40.00 to join in.  The deadline to join in is February 26th.  Everyone who joins in will get 25-30 sets, depending on how many people join up.  Each set will contain a torso and both heads.  Shipping is included in the $40.00.  We will not be selling these afterwards, so the only way to get any is to join in now.

 

I'd tread very carefully here regarding IP. I know you're trying to be careful, but even calling these 'female cadians' and even just charging people to 'subscribe' to the sculpt may bring down a C&D order...

Sadly, this is IP infringement and GW will hand your ass to you! Shame, art's nice...

This is not a business transaction, it is just a group of players pooling their money together to get some bitz made for their personal armies, nothing more.  No one is subscribing to anything.

It really doesn't matter whether it's a business or not. You can't copy GW's designs, make miniatures or parts named with GW's Trademarks, or make 3rd party parts for GW minis without infringing on GW's IP.

I would strongly recommend that you and your sculptor both talk to an IP Lawyer and/or GW's legal department before you take any money for this...

On IP, the flip side is they are making after market additions to GW kits. So long as they are not recasting bitz or using GW logos (even things like Imperial Eagles or winged skulls) they are fine. Imagine if he was making crested roman helmets or M16 arms for Cadians, no one would object to that.

But unfortunately all of these arguements are settled in court, and few people have the time or money for that kind of fight.

One key of course is to avoid attention, say by recruiting people by email and PM rather than a website or even a message board post.

Good luck Doc!

It's a nice idea to supplement the fluff, but why not jus source female heads and work up from there? There was a thread in the modelling forum not long back very similar to this. Heresy do generic heads, but they may work out to be quite an investment if you want a lot of them.

Also, there's a girl in my hall who looks earily similar to that pic.

 

Edit: Before you start, no, she doesn't own plasma weaponry.

Posted By Kid_Kyoto on 02/13/2007 4:35 PM
On IP, the flip side is they are making after market additions to GW kits. So long as they are not recasting bitz or using GW logos (even things like Imperial Eagles or winged skulls) they are fine. Imagine if he was making crested roman helmets or M16 arms for Cadians, no one would object to that.

Actually, GW's legal page specifically mentions that they don't allow people to make parts for their miniatures. That may not be actually enforcable legally (I'm not a lawyer, so have no idea), but you'd probably have to go to court with them to prove otherwise...


Making parts that fit on GW minis is fine... there are plenty of minis out there that share a scale.

But making parts specifically for GW minis, and branding them with GW names, is likely to attract the worst sort of attention.

if he was making Space wolf beardy heads or Leman Russ I would be interested, but Cadians, phah
frail humans

Yes, exactly. So all he and his friends have to do is call them sci-fi soldier female heads and torso, and so long as it is a custom sculpt it's fine. Similar to the drop pod issue. Drop pods are fine to make, 40k or Space Marine drop pods are not.

Posted By Wayfarer on 02/13/2007 6:35 PM
So all he and his friends have to do is call them sci-fi soldier female heads and torso, and so long as it is a custom sculpt it's fine.

Without trying to drum it into the ground... it would also rely on the finished piece not looking like it was wearing Cadian armour.

Not that this is too hard, as body armour is fairly generic. But copying the Cadian style exactly (as some might be tempted to do to have them match the males in their army) is out.

If Games Workshop wants to sue me for giving this bloke $40, I'm happy for them to pay a lawyer hundreds of pounds for the privilege.

But yeah, " Inspired-by-Nottingham.com " would be a good way to go about it.

Believe it or not, an ex-forgeworld sculptor did make some female Cadian torsos when he worked for them (lets just say he made a lot of the 40k terrain they make), and offered them to FW absolutely free of charge. He made them because he wanted to, while working on the Anphelion Project.

They were turned away. I think that says everything about their attitude to gender split

I think that's an excellent point. If we players want it to happen, we'll have to do it ourselves. I think this project could be the start of something really great. Imagine if the online community took initiative like this more often, creating the upgrade kits we want, instead of hoping that GW or forgeworld might eventually listen to us in a decade or so.

On a production note, just scuplting the torso won't be enough. The regular male Cadian torsos are badly designed to fit the legs as it is (they are narrower than all but one of the five legs sets and the fault is usually fixed with shaving off some plastic, greenstuffing, or covering the problem with accessories), but to slim down the waist will make the fit damn near impossible.

Added to which, as anyone will tell you, wearing body armour disguises the female form considerably.

Then there's the height issue, which is a problem if you're not sculpting legs.

So the heads sound great. The torsos not so much.

I agree. I'm not entirely sure torsos are necessary. Under that much body armour it's hard to tell, unless they're models for 'Big Busts of the Imperium'. A head swap is probably sufficient. (Female Catachans would be a different matter.)

On the other hand, that's a great pic at the start of the thread. I'll have to look for couple alternate heads to slip into my army.

EDIT: "In the grim darkness of the far future, sex change surgery involves decapitation."

Posted By Doctor Thunder on 02/14/2007 9:38 AM
I think that's an excellent point. If we players want it to happen, we'll have to do it ourselves. I think this project could be the start of something really great. Imagine if the online community took initiative like this more often, creating the upgrade kits we want, instead of hoping that GW or forgeworld might eventually listen to us in a decade or so.

  Plenty of Epic players have the same attitude.  Of course, that's entire miniatures rather than upgrade parts.  I do seem to recall a recent line of "just heads" that would fit on Cadians. 

Posted By Stu-Rat on 02/14/2007 10:16 AM
On a production note, just scuplting the torso won't be enough. The regular male Cadian torsos are badly designed to fit the legs as it is (they are narrower than all but one of the five legs sets and the fault is usually fixed with shaving off some plastic, greenstuffing, or covering the problem with accessories), but to slim down the waist will make the fit damn near impossible.
Then there's the height issue, which is a problem if you're not sculpting legs.

I think that is an excellent point.  For me, the ideal situation would be to sculpt a couple of pairs of legs in different poses as well as the torso and heads, but it all depends on how many people join up.  If we can get a few more people from Dakka, I bet we'd have enough to do legs as well.

i like that art..

Posted By pnweerar on 02/13/2007 9:46 PM
If Games Workshop wants to sue me for giving this bloke $40, I'm happy for them to pay a lawyer hundreds of pounds for the privilege.

It wouldn't be the buyers getting in trouble over it... and besides, GW have their own Lawyers.

 

 

Damn shame a cartoon hottie like her is carrying a plasma gun....she'll most likely die in her first battle.

The fluff really says half of all cadians are female? Man the cadians are dumb....one good war and their reproductive capability is zapped. Good bye Cadian society!

 

 

Posted By General Hobbs on 02/14/2007 10:48 PM

  Damn shame a cartoon hottie like her is carrying a plasma gun....she'll most likely die in her first battle.

The fluff really says half of all cadians are female? Man the cadians are dumb....one good war and their reproductive capability is zapped. Good bye Cadian society!

I hate to be the one to break this to you but you need men to make babies too

 

Posted By Spacegoat on 02/15/2007 12:38 AM
I hate to be the one to break this to you but you need men to make babies too

Yeah, but they don't need to be intact...

And you don't need that many of them...

I thought everyone would like to know that the IP issue has been resolved. 

 Kugelblitz, one of the people who has joined in the project, has known one of the GW VP's for many years, and he spoke to him about the project and we have been given the green light.  His reasons:  Small scale production, not for sale afterwards, not for profit, no GW parts being cast, private group, no harm, no foul.

So, the IP issue is a non-issue.  There's no further need to talk about it.  Anyone who was reluctant to get on board because of that no longer has any reason to hesitate.  There are still eleven days left to join in before the deadline, let's have some more people join up. 

What kind of pricing is this going to be per mini?  Also, are they going to be cast in metal or resin?  I might be interested, but I'd need more details, feel free to pm or e-mail me if necessary.

Ok I am in (depending on price of course). Send me the details.

It costs $40.00 to join in.  Everyone who joins in gets 25-30 sets, depending on how many people join up.  Each set will contain a torso and two heads (one with goggles like in the picture and another designed so that you can put the empty helmet onto it)  There will be no shipping charge to you when it comes time to mail off the sets, everything is included in the $40.00.

The more people join in, the more money we have to work with.  If we can get enough people on board, we can do more, like legs and more head varients and fun stuff like that.
The casting will be done in resin.

I'll send you guys all the details in a PM.

I'm in. PM sent.

I'm in as well.  I've already sent my money and can't wait to see the results.

Thanks
Tellerium