Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Super Newb wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
EVERY argument is silly when you stretch it out to the extreme on the sole purpose of making it silly.
The mere fact you felt the need to do so demonstrates just how much you lack an actual point behind your complaints, and require to make strawman fallacies in order to even be able to respond.

Aw how cute, someone who knows the word strawman but then strangely does not know of the valid tactic of taking an opponent's argument to its logical conclusion to show how bad the argument is. One day, when you are older and wiser, you will learn. Instead of ironically complaining about straw men while also completely mischaracterizing your opponent's argument. Gold star for you lol!

Actually it's called a slippery slope fallacy, because it is, indeed, a fallacy.hile it doesn't invalidate an argument, it doesn't lend much weight.

Reported for rule one for your older and wiser snark.

Environ, it's not the exact same mechanic. Mordrak always came down turn 1 with no scatter. No one can do that now, well an hq can if you get the right warlord trait but that's it.

Anyway, the Nemisis Strike Force detachment is great, I agree with you there. Running and shooting after deep striking is very nice and of course so is coming down on turn 1 on a 3+.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
EVERY argument is silly when you stretch it out to the extreme on the sole purpose of making it silly.
The mere fact you felt the need to do so demonstrates just how much you lack an actual point behind your complaints, and require to make strawman fallacies in order to even be able to respond.

Aw how cute, someone who knows the word strawman but then strangely does not know of the valid tactic of taking an opponent's argument to its logical conclusion to show how bad the argument is. One day, when you are older and wiser, you will learn. Instead of ironically complaining about straw men while also completely mischaracterizing your opponent's argument. Gold star for you lol!

Actually it's called a slippery slope fallacy, because it is, indeed, a fallacy.hile it doesn't invalidate an argument, it doesn't lend much weight.

Reported for rule one for your older and wiser snark.

It isn't a slippery slope. It is using the exact same logic applied to a different hypothetical set of facts. His logic equally supports codex Draigo.

My 'snark' is warranted... *snip* Snark isn't warranted on Dakka. Ever. --Janthkin

Also, saying "older and wiser" to a university student of engineering is REALLY not buying you any points in me taking you seriously.

Super Newb wrote:
Environ, it's not the exact same mechanic. Mordrak always came down turn 1 with no scatter. No one can do that now, well an hq can if you get the right warlord trait but that's it.

Anyway, the Nemisis Strike Force detachment is great, I agree with you there. Running and shooting after deep striking is very nice and of course so is coming down on turn 1 on a 3+.

To give Mordrak's rules to everyone in the army would be overpowered compared to the rest of the game, it would be that the GK players could just put everything where they like without consequence and just give them auto-win tactics so those measures were put in place to balance it out but still, being able to Deep Strike Turn 1 is a huge advantage and if you work a Comms Relay and then go second leaving your entire army off the board, you just basically denied your opponent a turn. Still a risky move but it is still there. The Nemesis Strike Force Detachment and the Warlord trait more than make up for the loss of Mordrak because Mordrak and his Ghost Knights were only one unit with capabilities that are basically army wide. That is huge and in the games I have played it has made the difference. People who used GK as Deep Striking and Shunters should be seeing their playstyle rewarded with this codex which is why I like it so much.

I digress though, let us look at how we got here. At the end of 5th, GK were ruling the game, placing high in the Tournament scene and it really didn't seem like it was going to change, until the changes in 6th happened. With this we saw the fall from grace of the GK especially in the tournament scene now that Draigowing was a lost strategy to the rules of 6th. This lead to two major flaws to appear for the GK, lack of mobility and lack of anti-armor but the GK weren't without their tricks and several ways to get around this became apparent. Running Rhinos and Psybacks became popular especially with Purifier spam armies as well as exploiting the Deep Striking and Shunting mechanics so we saw armies rise that used Shunting DKs and Interceptors with one specific unit at its head, Mordrak and his Ghost Knights. Anti-armor could be solved with psybolted autocannon dreadnoughts or using those DKs to punch things. (I sometimes used Eldar to solve my mobility problems since I didn't trust Rhinos after having bad experiences with them but this was after the Eldar release) Still, anti-armor was the biggest problem but there was one place that all these previous problems could be solved: Coteaz and his Henchman. Not only was Coteaz cheap for what he brought but he also turned an elite unit into a troop unit. This lead to more and more people just dropping the GK out of the list completely in favor of taking nothing but Henchman and ignoring most of the book. GW took notice and eventually came up with the supplemental Inquisition Codex allowing not only for all Imperial forces to take an Inquisitor but now you could have the Henchman army that you wanted as well as have it be your own Inquisitor if you didn't feel like taking Coteaz, plus let's face it, an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in Terminator armor with a Psycannon was pretty awesome. This is what would lead to the eventual split and I was waiting for a FAQ to come out making the Inquisition part of the GK obsolete and forcing people to buy the Inquisition codex if they wanted to have Inquisitors and their Henchman in their armies but that never happened and mostly because 7th would drop to yet again change things. Another sign GW had big plans to change the way the GK and the Inquisitors operated was the fact that only GK units could use Sanctic with only Periling on double 6s instead of all doubles. The Inquisition still has it FAQ included with the GK Codex though so it was bound to go either way until the unexpected announcement of the release of a new GK codex that would bring the GK into 7th properly. And that is how we arrived to this point. The official removal of the Inquisition out of the GK codex and a Codex devoted solely to the GKs eliminating any chance of using the GK codex for Inquisition forces.

Looking at it this way, the split was a long time coming after the ending of 5th and the emergence of those separate strategies. It was at that time that it looks like GW realized the flaw in the 5th edition codex and they sought to fix it by not only giving the Inquisition players their own codex but also started to work on ways of restoring a viable GK codex that actually makes their codex useful to use the GK. People did mix the two but with how expensive the units were, you had to go one way or the other either with one of the pure GK armies or the Henchman army to get the full effect. I was told many times to keep what I liked or keep the Dreadknights and go full Henchman, that was the advice all over Dakka at the time. Take a small piece of this kind-of useful GK unit and fill the rest of the points with cheap Inquisitorial Henchman. That didn't feel like GK to me, that felt like the Inquisition but I trudged on trying to come up with pure GK solutions with minimal Inquisition which is why I eventually with Mordrak and shunting units. It was the most effective at the time, not tournament worthy but able to hold it's own in casual games so I grew satisfied but hungered to get a pretty good tournament level army so I started experimenting with allies anyway. It was obvious back then that the anti-armor was huge chink in the GK strategy so I used Henchman, I used Fire Dragons and I used Space Marines which is the strategy I would later keep. Then 7th edition hits and I see my GK army get a bit better, still not up there but better especially with GK being able to dominate in the Psychic Phase and then this unexpected Codex release out of no where right when I was getting comfortable in 7th. At first, I freaked out too, loss of Psybolts and Mordrak with Psycannons going Salvo made me almost loose my crap too, that they ruined my army but I bought my Codex anyway. I got through 6th and I would get through this too because I like the GK a lot. I started to toy around with everything and with the new points restructuring, the inclusion of the Nemesis Strike Force Detachment and I saw the light and got excited to play test. When I did I was decently surprised to see the GK functioning like they were suppose to with my play style being rewarded by the Codex this time. Honestly, the only time I really have missed Psybolts is on T5 and above opponents, other than that, the army functions well. Albeit, there is still an anti-armor gap but it can be remedied with a few creative ways.

 Envihon wrote:

To give Mordrak's rules to everyone in the army would be overpowered compared to the rest of the game, it would be that the GK players could just put everything where they like without consequence and just give them auto-win tactics so those measures were put in place to balance it out but still, being able to Deep Strike Turn 1 is a huge advantage and if you work a Comms Relay and then go second leaving your entire army off the board, you just basically denied your opponent a turn. Still a risky move but it is still there. The Nemesis Strike Force Detachment and the Warlord trait more than make up for the loss of Mordrak because Mordrak and his Ghost Knights were only one unit with capabilities that are basically army wide. That is huge and in the games I have played it has made the difference. People who used GK as Deep Striking and Shunters should be seeing their playstyle rewarded with this codex which is why I like it so much.

I digress though, let us look at how we got here. At the end of 5th, GK were ruling the game, placing high in the Tournament scene and it really didn't seem like it was going to change, until the changes in 6th happened. With this we saw the fall from grace of the GK especially in the tournament scene now that Draigowing was a lost strategy to the rules of 6th. This lead to two major flaws to appear for the GK, lack of mobility and lack of anti-armor but the GK weren't without their tricks and several ways to get around this became apparent. Running Rhinos and Psybacks became popular especially with Purifier spam armies as well as exploiting the Deep Striking and Shunting mechanics so we saw armies rise that used Shunting DKs and Interceptors with one specific unit at its head, Mordrak and his Ghost Knights. Anti-armor could be solved with psybolted autocannon dreadnoughts or using those DKs to punch things. (I sometimes used Eldar to solve my mobility problems since I didn't trust Rhinos after having bad experiences with them but this was after the Eldar release) Still, anti-armor was the biggest problem but there was one place that all these previous problems could be solved: Coteaz and his Henchman. Not only was Coteaz cheap for what he brought but he also turned an elite unit into a troop unit. This lead to more and more people just dropping the GK out of the list completely in favor of taking nothing but Henchman and ignoring most of the book. GW took notice and eventually came up with the supplemental Inquisition Codex allowing not only for all Imperial forces to take an Inquisitor but now you could have the Henchman army that you wanted as well as have it be your own Inquisitor if you didn't feel like taking Coteaz, plus let's face it, an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in Terminator armor with a Psycannon was pretty awesome. This is what would lead to the eventual split and I was waiting for a FAQ to come out making the Inquisition part of the GK obsolete and forcing people to buy the Inquisition codex if they wanted to have Inquisitors and their Henchman in their armies but that never happened and mostly because 7th would drop to yet again change things. Another sign GW had big plans to change the way the GK and the Inquisitors operated was the fact that only GK units could use Sanctic with only Periling on double 6s instead of all doubles. The Inquisition still has it FAQ included with the GK Codex though so it was bound to go either way until the unexpected announcement of the release of a new GK codex that would bring the GK into 7th properly. And that is how we arrived to this point. The official removal of the Inquisition out of the GK codex and a Codex devoted solely to the GKs eliminating any chance of using the GK codex for Inquisition forces.

Looking at it this way, the split was a long time coming after the ending of 5th and the emergence of those separate strategies. It was at that time that it looks like GW realized the flaw in the 5th edition codex and they sought to fix it by not only giving the Inquisition players their own codex but also started to work on ways of restoring a viable GK codex that actually makes their codex useful to use the GK. People did mix the two but with how expensive the units were, you had to go one way or the other either with one of the pure GK armies or the Henchman army to get the full effect. I was told many times to keep what I liked or keep the Dreadknights and go full Henchman, that was the advice all over Dakka at the time. Take a small piece of this kind-of useful GK unit and fill the rest of the points with cheap Inquisitorial Henchman. That didn't feel like GK to me, that felt like the Inquisition but I trudged on trying to come up with pure GK solutions with minimal Inquisition which is why I eventually with Mordrak and shunting units. It was the most effective at the time, not tournament worthy but able to hold it's own in casual games so I grew satisfied but hungered to get a pretty good tournament level army so I started experimenting with allies anyway. It was obvious back then that the anti-armor was huge chink in the GK strategy so I used Henchman, I used Fire Dragons and I used Space Marines which is the strategy I would later keep. Then 7th edition hits and I see my GK army get a bit better, still not up there but better especially with GK being able to dominate in the Psychic Phase and then this unexpected Codex release out of no where right when I was getting comfortable in 7th. At first, I freaked out too, loss of Psybolts and Mordrak with Psycannons going Salvo made me almost loose my crap too, that they ruined my army but I bought my Codex anyway. I got through 6th and I would get through this too because I like the GK a lot. I started to toy around with everything and with the new points restructuring, the inclusion of the Nemesis Strike Force Detachment and I saw the light and got excited to play test. When I did I was decently surprised to see the GK functioning like they were suppose to with my play style being rewarded by the Codex this time. Honestly, the only time I really have missed Psybolts is on T5 and above opponents, other than that, the army functions well. Albeit, there is still an anti-armor gap but it can be remedied with a few creative ways.

^This

 BoomWolf wrote:



In any case, for those of you that say you pay for the codex for its rules content alone.
Seriously, you guys have no business buying a codex, ever. no matter how vast or impressive it might be.
If all you care about is the rules, they are on the internet, for free, just get battlescribe or the likes.
Why would you even NEED a codex for just a rules section?

Well for starters people care differing levels about the lore, and no matter what level, they still need a codex to play the game. I know plenty of people who are invested in this game to the point of having multiple armies who don't know and in some cases don't particularly care to listen to anything revolving around the fluff, instead just enjoying the strategy game aspect of the largest tabletop strategy game in the world. Remember, not everyone's hobby is the same as yours.

That being said, i have yet to see a post like this in this thread. Your average person obviously appreciates good fluff in a codex, but you can get good fluff any number of novels and there is plenty of online lore encyclopaedia/depositories that work just as well as the dex or better, while the same can't be said vice versa for army rules, they are in the codex alone. Stop being ridiculous, the primary motivation for every PLAYER who buys a dex is the rules. Using a large fluff section to excuse poorly written/lack of gameplay rules for the army makes my head hurt.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:



In any case, for those of you that say you pay for the codex for its rules content alone.
Seriously, you guys have no business buying a codex, ever. no matter how vast or impressive it might be.
If all you care about is the rules, they are on the internet, for free, just get battlescribe or the likes.
Why would you even NEED a codex for just a rules section?

Well for starters people care differing levels about the lore, and no matter what level, they still need a codex to play the game. I know plenty of people who are invested in this game to the point of having multiple armies who don't know and in some cases don't particularly care to listen to anything revolving around the fluff, instead just enjoying the strategy game aspect of the largest tabletop strategy game in the world. Remember, not everyone's hobby is the same as yours.

That being said, i have yet to see a post like this in this thread. Your average person obviously appreciates good fluff in a codex, but you can get good fluff any number of novels and there is plenty of online lore encyclopaedia/depositories that work just as well as the dex or better, while the same can't be said vice versa for army rules, they are in the codex alone. Stop being ridiculous, the primary motivation for every PLAYER who buys a dex is the rules. Using a large fluff section to excuse poorly written/lack of gameplay rules for the army makes my head hurt.

There are people who just buy the Codices for the fluff and see the Codices as the final word on the fluff when it disagrees (and it happens quite frequently) with the things that Black Library produces so the Codices are seen as the source books for all the fluff. This makes them especially important to those who like to read about the word, otherwise people wouldn't of been so up in arms about the Bloodtide incident, which got ret-conned in this edition or that Draigo was a mary sue, also ret-conned in this edition. I know people who buy the Codices and they don't even play because they like to read them. To discount the fluff that is within a codex is to be missing half the worth of the Codex in the first place otherwise they would of do what they did with the Core Rulebook and split everything up but the Codices are split up and the fluff is still in there contributing to worth of the Codex itself and should not be discounted. The fluff and everything that goes into the codex adds value to it whether you acknowledge it or not, the rules are just a part of Codex.

 Envihon wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:



In any case, for those of you that say you pay for the codex for its rules content alone.
Seriously, you guys have no business buying a codex, ever. no matter how vast or impressive it might be.
If all you care about is the rules, they are on the internet, for free, just get battlescribe or the likes.
Why would you even NEED a codex for just a rules section?

Well for starters people care differing levels about the lore, and no matter what level, they still need a codex to play the game. I know plenty of people who are invested in this game to the point of having multiple armies who don't know and in some cases don't particularly care to listen to anything revolving around the fluff, instead just enjoying the strategy game aspect of the largest tabletop strategy game in the world. Remember, not everyone's hobby is the same as yours.

That being said, i have yet to see a post like this in this thread. Your average person obviously appreciates good fluff in a codex, but you can get good fluff any number of novels and there is plenty of online lore encyclopaedia/depositories that work just as well as the dex or better, while the same can't be said vice versa for army rules, they are in the codex alone. Stop being ridiculous, the primary motivation for every PLAYER who buys a dex is the rules. Using a large fluff section to excuse poorly written/lack of gameplay rules for the army makes my head hurt.

There are people who just buy the Codices for the fluff and see the Codices as the final word on the fluff when it disagrees (and it happens quite frequently) with the things that Black Library produces so the Codices are seen as the source books for all the fluff. This makes them especially important to those who like to read about the word, otherwise people wouldn't of been so up in arms about the Bloodtide incident, which got ret-conned in this edition or that Draigo was a mary sue, also ret-conned in this edition. I know people who buy the Codices and they don't even play because they like to read them. To discount the fluff that is within a codex is to be missing half the worth of the Codex in the first place otherwise they would of do what they did with the Core Rulebook and split everything up but the Codices are split up and the fluff is still in there contributing to worth of the Codex itself and should not be discounted. The fluff and everything that goes into the codex adds value to it whether you acknowledge it or not, the rules are just a part of Codex.

I suppose I'm more like to discount fluff value in equating the cost of the books based on the fact that a significant portion of it is regurgitated from previous books. Unless I'm missing something and the new book has a lot? (genuine question, not being snarky)

As SHUPPET was saying, the codex serves a necessary "subscription" renewal for continuing an army. I've seen some posts suggesting you can get the rules off the internet as a work-around, but I'm not sure if they're suggesting stealing the rules or just using rules from older books (and judging off another thread about using the old GK codex, that idea doesn't seem popular). I just feel there is a tendency to give GW a *lot* of slack on the costs of these new books. "Well, it's hardback/color" -> those have been shown to not be as significant contributors to cost as suggested. And I think it's fair to say there isn't really much rules development that goes into the codexes these days (certainly not compared to the earlier books), so there's not a lot of cost there. Then with dataslates for assassins coming up at $20, I can't see anyone making a solid argument for why those should be so expensive- is it a privilege thing? Do we want to keep the casual peasants from enjoying the game and therefore don't care how much the rules are if it excludes the yokels?

However, nobody is discounting the fluff.

Yet even if they were, it would be their personal opinion and would be well within reason to complain about a lackluster collection of units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On top of that, even if it does have plenty of fluff, that just puts it on par with every other codex. While it still lacks is in the units department, so lets stop skirting the real issue here.

Yes, the real issue is that a fair number of people are much happier with the new codex, can understand the reasons for splitting them up (and I also know, for a fact, that I am correct in the reason- I can't prove it to random internet people, but I am happy with my info) and appreciate having a grey knight codex for the grist time. Not coteaz and friends.

Can any of the doom and gloomers explain how you played no-GK, no - coteaz in 5th?

Even if you want to side skirt the issue of the bulk of a codex being fluff with the unit sections being the smallest part of a codex, no one has addressed those points I brought up in that long post above this one where looking at how we got here and how everyone was surprised by this when it could be seen a mile away once people just started taking Inquisition units out of the GK codex without taking GK and how really, the split is our fault because of using the codex in that way.

Also, how many people here have actually play tested the new rules for the army? Really dug into the codex and not just sat there saying this sucks because things I like were taken out? My play testing has a stark difference to the "this codex sucks" to this is an awesome codex where all the rules work in concert for an awesome strategy and we may actually see GK return to the tournament scene, maybe not any pure GK but definitely GK with allies or another army with GK allies. To me that is enough if GK return to tournaments even as just allies because it shows that they added enough mechanics and made the units more efficient that it becomes competitive. Right now, that is looking like it is the case which is just another reason why I am satisfied with this codex.

My grey knights army has become impossible to field in the way I like it, being forced to change for 80$ not realy a great news.

They could have done change in a way not to be such a hassle, making me want to update.
In the end I don't realy care that much.

After a couple of games, I've decided to shelve my GKs. I'm heavy PAGKs and the new dreadknights with terminator friends thing turns me off.

 agnosto wrote:
After a couple of games, I've decided to shelve my GKs. I'm heavy PAGKs and the new dreadknights with terminator friends thing turns me off.

Are they normal GKSS or Interceptors?

Apple fox wrote:
My grey knights army has become impossible to field in the way I like it, being forced to change for 80$ not realy a great news.

They could have done change in a way not to be such a hassle, making me want to update.
In the end I don't realy care that much.

Then don't update. Keep the fifth ed codex. GW are not forcing you to change.

 agnosto wrote:
After a couple of games, I've decided to shelve my GKs. I'm heavy PAGKs and the new dreadknights with terminator friends thing turns me off.

How has the codex impacted PAGKs against Termies? Just the increase on special weapon prices?

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
After a couple of games, I've decided to shelve my GKs. I'm heavy PAGKs and the new dreadknights with terminator friends thing turns me off.

How has the codex impacted PAGKs against Termies? Just the increase on special weapon prices?

People heralding how great Terminators are is maybe making people think that is the only way to field GK when it's really not. PAGKs got better, with GKSS probably better if they go with Incinerators vs. Psycannons. I think Interceptors can stick to using the Psycannon because they can keep the Salvo range. Incinerators are still really good though S6 and they have Soul Blaze. Furyou Mike has it, it really shouldn't of affected your PAGK. Unless you face a lot of AP3 in your local gaming group.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
After a couple of games, I've decided to shelve my GKs. I'm heavy PAGKs and the new dreadknights with terminator friends thing turns me off.

How has the codex impacted PAGKs against Termies? Just the increase on special weapon prices?

Probably a combination of Terminator point reduction, and Psycannon going to Salvo. Salvo Psycannons hurt PAGK's

 Envihon wrote:

Incinerators are still really good though S6 and they have Soul Blaze. Furyou Mike has it,

It's Miko.

Soul Blaze really isn't worth writing home about though.

 Envihon wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
After a couple of games, I've decided to shelve my GKs. I'm heavy PAGKs and the new dreadknights with terminator friends thing turns me off.

Are they normal GKSS or Interceptors?

They're regular. I've got 40 PAGKs that I used to use as a ground-pound force. The change to salvo on psycannons has really put me off the whole army now. 24" salvo....yeah. Now my psyfleman dreads are near worthless IMO (amazing how one pt of S makes such a difference). Psibolt ammo in general being gone was a big blow to me and IMO compensated for the lack of range on all weapons in the army.

I ran a straight GK force without the cheesy internet gimmicks or special characters so my units are all kitted wrong to fit the new play style and I'm not investing in bits and tearing painted models apart to tack on incinerators and personal teleporters.

I have 10 terminators; not nearly enough to run an effective deep-striking force which seems to be the new play-style.

I face a lot of AP3/2 against my regular opponent, a CSM, heavy Nurgle player.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

Incinerators are still really good though S6 and they have Soul Blaze. Furyou Mike has it,

It's Miko.

Soul Blaze really isn't worth writing home about though.

Sorry it was an autocorrect that I didn't catch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 agnosto wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
After a couple of games, I've decided to shelve my GKs. I'm heavy PAGKs and the new dreadknights with terminator friends thing turns me off.

Are they normal GKSS or Interceptors?

They're regular. I've got 40 PAGKs that I used to use as a ground-pound force. The change to salvo on psycannons has really put me off the whole army now. 24" salvo....yeah. Now my psyfleman dreads are near worthless IMO (amazing how one pt of S makes such a difference). Psibolt ammo in general being gone was a big blow to me and IMO compensated for the lack of range on all weapons in the army.

I ran a straight GK force without the cheesy internet gimmicks or special characters so my units are all kitted wrong to fit the new play style and I'm not investing in bits and tearing painted models apart to tack on incinerators and personal teleporters.

I have 10 terminators; not nearly enough to run an effective deep-striking force which seems to be the new play-style.

I face a lot of AP3/2 against my regular opponent, a CSM, heavy Nurgle player.

10 Terminators is really all you need. I only field about 5-10 terminators at a time. And you could deep strike all those PAGKs in during the first turn to be within Incinerator range or 12" with Psycannons. I do it all the time and it has become easier to do this in the new codex.

 agnosto wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
After a couple of games, I've decided to shelve my GKs. I'm heavy PAGKs and the new dreadknights with terminator friends thing turns me off.

Are they normal GKSS or Interceptors?

They're regular. I've got 40 PAGKs that I used to use as a ground-pound force. The change to salvo on psycannons has really put me off the whole army now. 24" salvo....yeah. Now my psyfleman dreads are near worthless IMO (amazing how one pt of S makes such a difference). Psibolt ammo in general being gone was a big blow to me and IMO compensated for the lack of range on all weapons in the army.

I ran a straight GK force without the cheesy internet gimmicks or special characters so my units are all kitted wrong to fit the new play style and I'm not investing in bits and tearing painted models apart to tack on incinerators and personal teleporters.

I have 10 terminators; not nearly enough to run an effective deep-striking force which seems to be the new play-style.

I face a lot of AP3/2 against my regular opponent, a CSM, heavy Nurgle player.

Actually the PAGK are good even with the Psycannon going to Salvo. What they truly lost was 12" of range if you moved and it is no long an Assault Weapon, that is about it.
It is just the Terminators are so cheap compared they make them look bad.

I'm sorry, but did you seriously said psyfledreads and PAGK psycannon spam and "without internet gimmicks" in a single breath?
These are like, the definition of gimmick GK in the old codex, along with coteaz.

I don't know. Its not like I can give them plasma and melta or other special/heavy weapons. It was psycannon or spilencers and since my regular opponent plays daemons as well, psilencers weren't a fun choice. It's the same reason I never used warp rift as a psychic power since he plays nurgle. I never use special characters and the psyflemen were my only anti tank since I don't usually take a dreadknight.

 agnosto wrote:
I don't know. Its not like I can give them plasma and melta or other special/heavy weapons. It was psycannon or spilencers and since my regular opponent plays daemons as well, psilencers weren't a fun choice. It's the same reason I never used warp rift as a psychic power since he plays nurgle. I never use special characters and the psyflemen were my only anti tank since I don't usually take a dreadknight.

So with your self imposed limitation you are going to have to change your play style.
The Strike Squads might have to become more static.
The Rifleman Dreads, well you might need to ally to get cheaper ones or just use them to increase the Warp Charges available to them. That or use them as "Count As" what I call True Rifleman, Twin-Linked Auto-Cannon and Twin-Linked Las-Cannon. As they are Rifleman Dreads are still as affective vs. T5 or less as before and you can't ID T4. You can't Glance AV14, but there is not a lot out there, so I am not seeing that drastic of a reduction of firepower especially if you tack on the Las-Cannon.

Oh, I'm sure that I'll come back to them eventually but I'm just off of them for now; I'm not feeling any of the excitement that I felt when Tau were updated.

I'm only posting because people were talking about the silently apathetic.

I love this new codex. With it, I can play the exact sane way I've been playing my GK army since 5th. Pre-5th, it was Water Warror. Post-5th, it was Ghostwing, followed by Shuntwing in 6th. 7th? I swap out Mordrak and his Ghostly Bodyguard for Draigo and more Interceptors. And best part? I don't have to buy a single new model.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
I love this new codex. With it, I can play the exact sane way I've been playing my GK army since 5th. Pre-5th, it was Water Warror. Post-5th, it was Ghostwing, followed by Shuntwing in 6th. 7th? I swap out Mordrak and his Ghostly Bodyguard for Draigo and more Interceptors. And best part? I don't have to buy a single new model.

SJ

This is exactly what happened to me but what made me happier is that I could bring out all those Terminators that I had shelved that I never though I would use again except the 5 I was painting to be Mordrak's Ghost Knights. I am kind of glad, I never got around to painting them and now I get to use all my Terminators again.

Ok, I have been working on my Space Wolf Synergy thread.
I was working on Allies.
How do you create a legal Inquisition List without Troops?

Inquisitors require no troops in the Codex: Inquisition. so if you wanted and had unlimited Detachments you could take all the inquisitors you'd ever want.