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Wouldn't you rather the price was more in line with other different mini's that you dislike?

 jah-joshua wrote:
@Killkrazy: i don't disagree with your point, i just thought it was funny that we are back at, "i can get something different for less"...
it doesn't matter that there is a different style of miniature out there for less money, if it does not match what i actually want.

The point is not that you can just get something different for less. The point is that, aesthetics aside, there are technically superior models for less. Regardless of visual appeal, the Dreamforge Leviathan is a better designed and engineered kit than the Imperial Knight. The Leviathan actually functions as a gaming model (movable and swappable weapons, posability, etc.). The Dreamforge APC is superior to almost every GW vehicle in engineering. Of course, admittedly, GW has sucked for a long time at making vehicles that are actually functional gaming pieces.

At the end of the day, you really are just paying extra solely because you're willing to let GW charge you more than anybody else, when there is no justifiable reason for GW to charge more other than because they want to charge more.

TBH. We as a community are responsible for GW charging us more. GW as a driver of costs is responsible for the miniatures hobby charging us more.

As far as the GW aesthetic. They have a captive market there... so its kind of unfair to dogpile on the guys who like that kind of stuff. The GW legal attack dogs make sure that it stays that way. I still feel it is extremely backwards for GW to put up their prices to where they are. I can only speak for myself, but at current prices, I buy zero new releases. At 2/3 the price, I might buy one every 6 months. At 1/2 the price, I'd buy one every 3 months... and I don't even play the game anymore. If I was still actively playing, I'd still be spending my hobby budget, just buying twice the amount of stuff (to store in my closet). Instead of some sales, they get zero sales from me. I get that the average superfan will more than make up for my buying nothing, but my exact circumstance can't be that uncommon.

I do find it slightly telling that the two guys defending GW are both atypical of their average customer, but are in fact, GW's ideal type of customer. One is a collector and painter who doesn't play the game, therefore he can cherry-pick characters and individual models that he finds appealing or that he knows his customers will purchase from his as a commission artist. The second appears to have a significant amount of free time as evidenced by a post count around 5,000 posts in a single year, and has made mention in multiple threads of having a significant amount of disposable income. Both types of customers are different consumers, but they are price insensitive and married to GW aesthetics: that's the common thread.

BTW, none of what I've said are personal digs, just observations.

@Herzlos: i have stated many times that i would not complain about lower prices from GW...
i am as baffled as everyone else by the choices GW management makes...

@Tannhauser42: i totally get where you are coming from, but i don't see how to separate aesthetics from my choice in purchasing, as long as the material used is quality...
for instance, i will not buy anything in restic, Bones, or Finecast, because they are not quality materials in comparison to metal, HIPS, or resin, in my experience...

to use your example, the Leviathan is an ingenious piece of design work for a wargaming model, but the Knight comes with nearly 30 years of art and fiction that has been firing my imagination since Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine were new releases...
the Knight fits the part of evoking a world (setting) that i enjoy exploring, through creating a recognizable moment in the fiction, with my painting...

the Dreamforge APC is badass, but then i have never had anything bad to say about Dreamforge...
it just comes back to the fact that, with GW minis, i have decades of art and fiction to mine for my perfect "moment in time" to inspire me, and give context to my work...

@keezus: i think your circumstances are probably the most common, if GW's steadily falling sales numbers are anything to go by...
the bit that gets me, is how so many people seem to disregard the fact that both Talys and i buy models from other companies...
i am just as passionate about PP, Infinity, and the dear departed Rackham...
my collection includes loads of Rackham minis (plus every book and boxed set), lots of PP (metal, not the "plastics", but soon HIPS!!!, plus the books and mag.), many Ilyad (RIP my resin friends), Soda Pop (metals), Dark-Age (books and minis), Helldorado, Infinity (inc. all the books since 1st ed.), Wyrd (old metals), Studio McVey (resins), and a variety of other small boutique sculptors (many of whom have gone on to sculpt for GW)...
at the end of the day, the GW aesthetic is my favorite, but even that doesn't mean i will buy Finecast:(...

@the_Armyman: can't argue with that assessment, but keep in mind that i am even more of a buyer than your average gamer, in that i buy all the books (novel, Codex, Army book, core rules) and collect entire armies in the hope that i will have the time to paint them one day...
i have always enjoyed creating army lists, and imagining the look of an army, while i am busy painting other people's minis...
first and foremost, i just love miniatures and Sci-Fi and Fantasy art and fiction...
my loyalty to GW only extends as far as how cool i think the product is...
it is not some blind loyalty to a company, but an enjoyment of the product...
if i am married to GW aesthetics, then i am a polygamist, because i spread the love...

cheers
jah

I remember when I started playing in mid 90s everything was metal, only a few plastic kits. You had to by blisters of 2 guys that were like 15 bucks and buy 5 of them to make a 10 man unit and then buy the command pack with 3 guys in it for another 18 bucks. Cost like 100 bucks for a 13 man unit.

Just to expand on my earlier post, turns out Denny3 is actually a PVC model, but damn she looks bloody good for PVC. According to PP they've just improved the sculpting and design process to get the best out of the material. The Aradus and the new Iron Fang Pikemen are also PVC and from what people have been saying are really good quality as well.

 jah-joshua wrote:

@the_Armyman: can't argue with that assessment, but keep in mind that i am even more of a buyer than your average gamer, in that i buy all the books (novel, Codex, Army book, core rules) and collect entire armies in the hope that i will have the time to paint them one day...
i have always enjoyed creating army lists, and imagining the look of an army, while i am busy painting other people's minis...
first and foremost, i just love miniatures and Sci-Fi and Fantasy art and fiction...

my loyalty to GW only extends as far as how cool i think the product is...
it is not some blind loyalty to a company, but an enjoyment of the product...
if i am married to GW aesthetics, then i am a polygamist, because i spread the love...

That's cool, dude. Like I said, wasn't anything personal and I wasn't challenging your geek cred I respect your work as an artist and your accumen as a businessman.

 jah-joshua wrote:

showing the old Tac kit in your example just reinforces how much better the new 2013 Tac kit looks...
it has much straighter legs, that make a huge difference...
that power fist is in the FW Command upgrade...

I just googled for crimson fists miniatures to keep the theme going. Yup the new tactical squad is better but they still have the same proportions no matter how much straighter they manage to stand (the kits have to be cross compatible after all).

i get your point about why you are not more accepting of the prices, but keep in mind that i have never used the Porsche comparison...
i only compare GW to Past GW, like the title of the thread...
the kits (minus the plastic replacements for the Diaz Daemonettes) are a clear improvement over their previous counterparts...
if you don't see it that way, then nothing i say will convince you...
i just want to be clear that i am only expressing the fact that i think GW has done the design work to convince me that they have improved the look of their kits enough to buy them...

The Porsche bit was GW talk praising their own product and if they want to demand Porsche prices then they also have to deliver that quality. Sure, the kits are an improvement over older GW kits but the prices also have improved (for GW, at least) at a rate where my willingness to buy just isn't there anymore. It doesn't help that other companies can make plastic kits that are better engineered (from Gundam to smaller miniature companies) as lower prices. And here GW has a combination of cheap in house production, process expertise, and a relatively large fan-base going for them (well, excluding Bandai) but they still manage to be some of the most expensive miniatures.

I would be more more accepting of the prices if the actual improvements were more than just telling a few marines to stand up straight. Kingdom Death (ignoring the aesthetics for now) has managed (from the images I have seen) to engineer some plastic miniatures that don't show the limitations of the medium too much and GW while steadily improving their product still regularly release stuff that tends to have a more toylike and less sculptural fell to it.

@Mario: fair points...
the new AoS mounted Lord Celestant is my second least favorite mini in the starter, as those Dracolith feet just look wrong, right behind the Khorgorath (and his chubby handler)...
i see why you would get the "toy-like" vibe from something thing like those minis, but then they go and make something as awesome as the Chaos Lord's Fleshhound, and i am impressed again...

i don't really think there is a way to reconcile GW's products with their prices...
at the end of the day, you either want a model badly enough to fork over the cash, or you don't...
you either find the setting compelling enough to overlook the idiots in management, or you don't...
you either feel like you are getting fleeced for plastic toys, or feel like you are getting an awesome model...
different strokes for different folks...

cheers
jah