GW Prices 1997 vs 2015

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**jah-joshua**

Jehan-reznor wrote:
@Jah-Joshua
"not caring for them is a different matter entirely... "
Ah, doing your passive aggressive thing again.

It is because i care, i forgot about the new tactical squad box, so i concede that point, still think it is too expensive though.
What i am trying to say is that as technology improves in most manufacturing area's the price decreases per unit, prices for making molds have dropped.
Plastic extruding technology has improved, that is why companies like bolt action, Dreamforge games and wargames factory can offer their kits for reasonable prices.
Except GW off course.

@Talys

Sorry, depending on the technology used, Resin and metal still give better detail than plastic, plastic has become better but there are still limitations.

how is that passive aggressive???
i was simply being open to the possibility that GW prices had put you off so much, that you may have stopped following the more recent Space Marine releases...
there is no need to read my words as some kind of veiled jab, as that is not my style...

now that you clarified, i understand where you are coming from better, so thanks for clearing that up...
i had forgotten about your post from a few days ago, saying you still buy Marines second-hand...
it does suck that GW carries on with the price rises, and makes some of the community feel screwed over...
that can't be good for business...

there are some who feel that the work that goes into the new kits still make then worth buying...
i personally really like the improvements that i see in newer models like the plastic clam-pack characters...
if i put the latest SM Captain mini next to the previous SM Commander (who is both cheaper, and has more options), the difference is like night and day...
the new Captain has finer detail, and a cloak that wraps around his body...
for some, that look may not matter as much, and the higher price and lack of options may put them off...
totally understandable...
i like both of them, one for the extra options, and the other for the cooler look...
i don't mind the fact that the new Captain costs more, since i will only ever have one...
the Commander, on the other hand, i can have a few of for all of those useful bits...

i wouldn't complain if GW lowered their prices to match Dreamforge...
it's not going to happen, so i am just happy that GW has improved all of the Space Marine kits over the last two years, even if the prices did go up...
for me, the improvements are worth the increase in price...
that is not to say that i think price increases are great or anything, but if i feel like i am getting a good product, i am not going to sweat it too much...

as for resin and metal giving better detail than plastic, i think that all three have their place...
i think it depends on what company is producing the models, because i have seen lumps of rubbish in all three materials, and i am looking at gorgeous examples of all three on my painting table right now...
for example: the GW Tech-Priest in plastic, the Fatal Personalities Toxic Girl in resin, and an Infinity Yu-Jing Spec-Ops in metal...
they are all three equally finely detailed, and with paint on them it would be impossible for someone who didn't know what material they were cast in to tell the difference...

if someone has a personal preference, that's cool...
there are plenty of people who hate metal with a passion...
others are afraid of resin, thinking it is too delicate, fiddly, or toxic...
still others say that plastic is too cheap and toylike...
i personally like working with all three when done well, and none of them when done poorly, but plastic has definitely come to a point where it rivals resin and metal for miniatures, as far as i am concerned...

cheers
jah

**Grimtuff**

Wyrmalla wrote:
Herzlos wrote:
John Wirral wrote:

5. Catachans x10 1997 £17----------- 2015 £18

Weren't they 20 to a box in 1997?

Yes, and when they were originally released they were £12 IIRC. Hmn, or was it £15? So rather the 2015 price is £36.

They were orinally released in 1999 to go with the 3rd ed guard codex and were £10 for 20 of them.

**Mario**

Talys wrote:
@jonolikespie - Sorry, I disagree about metal. GW plastics are way, way better than metal. By separating a single model into many pieces, you have the ability to layer details that are otherwise impossible with a single piece (or a small number of pieces).

**Korinov**

Confrontation models were a bit expensive, but in terms of quality they're the best fantasy models I've ever seen.

Pity the company decided to switch to pre-painted plastics

**Talys**

@Mario - I'm certainly not saying there aren't nice metal minis. Infinity has some *awesome* metal minis.

However, that doesn't change the fact that some things just aren't possible in that medium. For example, you could never create models like these out of metal without casting into more pieces than anyone would want to work with in that medium:

Spoiler:

A model like this becomes impractical for gaming, even if you could make it, because it would fall over:

Spoiler:

And all large models are horrible to work with in metal (just ask anyone who has built a large metal dragon), and large models like these are just impossible:

Spoiler:

Plastic and resin multipart offers the ability to create open spaces inside the model, large hollow areas. Plastic offers the ability to make very fine pieces (like on Dominus) not possible in resin, because in resin, such fine parts are too fragile to be practical. Plastic and resin models are also a lot easier to kitbash. Ever tried cutting out a metal head to put it onto another metal model? Yuck.

**Mario**

Talys your point was By separating a single model into many pieces, you have the ability to layer details that are otherwise impossible with a single piece (or a small number of pieces). Exactly that layering of details is possible with metal models. Models that are really big or have many geometric surfaces are easier to make in plastic. Why would I argue against that? The tech priest would probably be possible in metal or resin with fewer parts and better details because of undercuts thus also making assembly easier.

**jah-joshua**

@Mario: i have to disagree on you Tech-Priest comment...
having the model sitting in front of me, the part cut and detail is perfect...
it is the first plastic mini i have ever held, where is seems like there is not a single flaw in the design...
the only flaw i could see an objective person calling out is the price...
it really is that well done...
had it been done as a single part body from Forge World, with separate arms and Mechandrites, it would work fine (until the molds deteriorate), but then it would not be as easy to buy, nor be as durable...
in metal, he would be a nightmare to assemble and keep together without pins, but i pin everything anyway, so i would be fine with that...
the real issue is that Gw doesn't use metal anymore, so the whole point is moot...
i would not want this model in Finecast at any price, so i am stoked that he is plastic!!!

until you have the new plastics in hand, it is not really possible to see the real ingenuity behind the design process...
the new Datasmith, Tech-Priest, Terminator Librarian, Harliquin Solitaire, and others all have distinct design advantages in plastic that metal don't, mainly how thin the cloaks can be, how much negative space there is, how dynamic they are, how easily they go together without pins, and how durable they are...

with metal models, cloaks and tabards usually have very thick bottom edges, which looks horrible, and a lack of negative spaces between legs where a loincloth would cover front and back...
metal models are notorious for small joins not holding without pinning, and don't take ride in a figure case very well...
how many times have you seen someone open their figure case, only to be bummed about an arm having fallen off???
how well would that Solitaire stay attached to the stone he is leaping over, and how thick would his coat tails be if he was metal???
if he was resin, he would be a Forge World model, and again, not as easily available to purchase...

i cannot stress enough, everyone seems to have their material of choice, and that is cool...
i personally like all three materials (HIPS, metal, resin) equally, but for different types of figures...
the biggest problem is that with GW's prices are so high, that many people are not buying the plastic clam-packs, and so don't have the chance to really appreciate the ingenious design work going into these new plastic characters...
it really does feel like HIPS plastic wargaming minis have gone through an amazing revolution in the last five years!!!

cheers
jah

**Talys**

Well, Jah put it better than I could have, so I'll just leave it at that. Like he said, you really have to handle the new plastic character models to appreciate how intricate the assemblies are, and how amazingly durable they are considering how fragile they look.

I know they are awfully expensive, but it's really a treat for me to model and paint them.

**Fenrir Kitsune**

Talys wrote:
Well, Jah put it better than I could have, so I'll just leave it at that. Like he said, you really have to handle the new plastic character models to appreciate how intricate the assemblies are, and how amazingly durable they are considering how fragile they look.

I know they are awfully expensive, but it's really a treat for me to model and paint them.

Considering the price, I expect something good for the money!

**jah-joshua**

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Talys wrote:
Well, Jah put it better than I could have, so I'll just leave it at that. Like he said, you really have to handle the new plastic character models to appreciate how intricate the assemblies are, and how amazingly durable they are considering how fragile they look.

I know they are awfully expensive, but it's really a treat for me to model and paint them.

Considering the price, I expect something good for the money!

that's the point...
some of us feel that what we are getting for our money is not only good, but amazing...
GW plastic new releases in the last couple of years are the best they have ever been...
having collected the whole history of their plastic releases as they came out over the last 30 years, there is no way i would still be buying at the current prices if the models didn't get better with each generation of sculpts...

cheers
jah

**Fenrir Kitsune**

Personally, I find them a bit busy.

**Runic**

Like the new CEO said, the miniatures are premium priced for their premium quality. Doesn't apply to all of them ofcourse, but pretty much anything in the newer ranges.

Some people argue that Infinity or Privateer Press have better models. I simply don't find this true, on average, and I do own some of each.

Infact, as someone who uses his eyes and sense of visual composition to earn his living, I find it rather unfathomable.

**Fenrir Kitsune**

Runic wrote:

Infact, as someone who uses his eyes and sense of visual composition to earn his living, I find it rather unfathomable.

Wot that you prefer GW and others don't? yeah, its amazing. mind blown.

**Runic**

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Wot that you prefer GW and others don't? yeah, its amazing. mind blown.

You should have your mind blown by the fact that even things related to visual composition and quality can be viewed objectively. In the case of miniatures the quality of the sculpt, sharpness of details and attention to them, and the visual composition of the miniature as a whole.

All companies have poor looking miniatures, naturally. Usually the very old ones. However, some competitors still put out stuff that looks mediocre at best when it comes to quality, same kind of loss hasn't been seen from GW. I honestly am sometimes surprised when a new PP model comes out, and it looks like it could've come out during MK1.

**Talys**

Runic wrote:
All companies have poor looking miniatures, naturally. Usually the very old ones. However, some competitors still put out stuff that looks mediocre at best when it comes to quality, same kind of loss hasn't been seen from GW. I honestly am sometimes surprised when a new PP model comes out, and it looks like it could've come out during MK1.

I am sometimes blown away by how badly sonme of the new PP plastic releases are tooled. While I am all for moving from metal, resin, and restic, some of their HIPS looks like 2005 GW, where two halves of one cast are slightly misaligned, and where plastic that should be perfect smooth is not. Where it's reasonably fixable, I'll usually keep the model, but sometimes it's just too much work for a 20$+ new model.

Malifaux usually has it right in terms of tooling, but unfortunately, I'm not into most of their models. They are certainly not cheap either, and nobody complains that plastic Viktorias are more expensive than metal ones were (by a long shot).

**Kilkrazy**

Mario wrote:
Talys your point was By separating a single model into many pieces, you have the ability to layer details that are otherwise impossible with a single piece (or a small number of pieces). Exactly that layering of details is possible with metal models. Models that are really big or have many geometric surfaces are easier to make in plastic. Why would I argue against that? The tech priest would probably be possible in metal or resin with fewer parts and better details because of undercuts thus also making assembly easier.

The advantage of injection polystyrene moulding is that you can very cheaply make large numbers of complicated kits.

It might seem like belabouring the point but we now live in a world in which you can pay £22 for a single GW 28mm infantry model with a dozen parts, or for a 1/100 scale Gundam model with 100+ parts moulded in five colours, polycap joints for poseability, moving weapon units, swappable parts and a set of stickers.

People need to be honest and understand that the reason why GW models are so expensive is because they sell to people who are happy to pay so much money for GW models.

**Herzlos**

Exactly. If I can get a Riptide sized Gundam for less than a single pose 28mm plastic, something is wrong. Or a Pigapult on a 50mm base.

Talys wrote:
They are certainly not cheap either, and nobody complains that plastic Viktorias are more expensive than metal ones were (by a long shot).

I think a lot of people are starting to suffer sticker shock from Malifaux too, but they are expensive for all the reasons GW fans try to justify (low production runs), and the quality of sculpt is immense, at the cost of mindblowing complexity. I mean, Burt Jebson is the last one I remember doing, and his head was I think 4 pieces, but the result is that there isn't a single undercut on it, and once it's gone together there are no obvious gaps. Fiddly, expensive (though not compared directly to GW) and fragile, yes, but you have to admit that they fantastically well made,

Plus, since my Malifaux crew has maybe 8 mini's in it, I feel like I get more for my money with a £22* Malifaux plastic mini than a £22 plastic Space Marine

*I paid £24 for the Gencon exclusive War Wabbit (below, on a 50mm base). Very few individual mini's cost that much, but they tend to be on 50mm bases, be warmachines, monsters or mounted.

Spoiler:

**Talys**

@kilkrazy -

At the suggestion of one of the Dakka members, I actually gave Gundam models a good look. I went to a specialty shop that had tons (100+) Gundam kits, including about 10 perfect grade and 20 different master grade (and rows and rows of cheaper ones).

Really, only the 1/100 and 1/60 are things built for modelers. The 1/144 are just toys, with not even a fraction of the quality and detail.

What you get out of a perfect grade (and some master 1/100) model is a giant robot (it's really huge) with a cool skeleton - armor plating system. Unfortunately, most of the details are in the uder-the-hood pieces of the skeleton (which isn't that nice to display) and most of the armor plates are very large, flat or rounded plates. This gives you a great canvas on which to paint, if that's your thing.

The master grade 1/100 models are a better size for me, and have nearly as much detail but are pretty much the same IDE (fewer parts).

There is no difference of quality in the plastic sprues between current GW and current Bandai models at the top end. What I mean is, if you pop open a land raider crusader kit, the part tooled as the original LR has very uneven plastic that isn't smooth, has a lot of flash, and the detail isn't very sharp. In comparison, the Crusader sprue has perfectly tooled and casted plastic, much like a current generation vehicle (say a voidraven). The Gundam models are like that.

Where there is a dramatic difference in model is that GW models generally feature a TON of etched relief on them. Ribbed hoses, ribbed plates, raised insignia, pipes, gears, and so on. Even relatively clean models like Eldar are a lot busier than Gundam models.

This is not a technological difference, as the internals of Gunfam robots are also quite busy with gears and pistons and such, but when assembled, you don't see any of that. My personal preference is ornate, detailed models with lots of features to paint in, rather than open spaces that force me to do freehand. A lot of that may just be that freehand takes me forever, and I'm not very good at it. I also like the ornate look.

The Gundam models are ''highly posable" -- sort of. They're like action figures, but only a small number of poses actually look great. Most of the poses look unintended by the sculptor, and would certainly photograph badly.

Finally, at least in the store I was at, there were no Gundam models other than the robots. As much as I enjoy the vehicles, I ALSO like the infantry and smaller vehicles (like bikes), and the ability to interchange and mix up the kits. It also gives you great diorama and display potential, as well as, obviously, gaming potential.

In the end, I did not buy a Gundam model, but mostly because the 1/60 kit I wanted would require a new display case with taller shelves -- that would cost way more than the model, lol. They are cool, but different. I would nit characterize the as better, and that's after spending a couple of hours popping open kits and looking at some really nicely finished pieces.

@Herzlos - I get the same thing out if my Viktorias as I do out of AoS stuff

. I play neither game, so it's just about nice models for me.

Personally, given the amount of time I want to spend on a mini, any mini that is not nice is nit worth paying any money for, unless there is a gaming purpose, as I would rather spend my time on something really cool -- since there's so much good stuff to paint up.

By the way, to be fair, I treat Malifaux models no differently than Forge World models or GW characters I'm not going to fame with - I know they're expensive because people buy fewer of them, and in Malifaux's case, Wyrd is not going to sell 100 minis to their average player. But that doesn't really translate into a willingness for me to pay more for them. Basically, I look at it like this - you have to pay a lot more to get the next level of better, for whatever reasons, and if I like the model enough, I'll buy it as something special. But at those prices, I won't buy them unless I really like them a lot (or want to field it).

**jah-joshua**

@Killkrazy: did you really just "Gundam" this thread???

if i wanted a Gundam, rather than a Space Marine, i would buy Gundam...
as it stands, i don't want to paint Gundams, i want to paint Space Marines...

@Herzlos: again, if i wanted a Wyrd mini, i would buy a Wyrd mini...
that War Wabbit does not appeal to me, at all, but the Tech-Priest Dominus was an easy "must-buy", and he is on a 50mm base...
he's a big boy...

ironically, Wyrd actually put me off their minis with the switch to plastic...
i really like my metal Perdita and Rastputina, but am not a fan of their plastic versions...
for all the talk of Wyrd's amazing detail, i was very disappointed by the chunky detailing of the trim on the chaps of the Ortegas...

at the end of the day, in my opinion, comparing prices across different companies is essentially pointless...
if i want the 40K aesthetic, i am not going to get it by buying Wyrd, PP, Gundam, Gripping Beast, Dreamforge, Studio McVey, Wargames Factory, Infinity, Hasslefree, or any other manufacturer's models...
i want Space Marine models that look exactly like the GW Space Marine illustrations...
for that, i have to buy GW...

cheers
jah

**Mario**

jah-joshua wrote:
i want Space Marine models that look exactly like the GW Space Marine illustrations...
for that, i have to buy GW...

If the models actually looked like this instead of this then I would be much more accepting of their prices but as it is I don't feel like they deserve the Porsches comparison and price (to put it in simple terms).

**Baldeagle91**

John Wirral wrote:
Just got a copy of the 1997 GW price guide - thought I would do a comparison of a few items - sorry if this exists already somewhere...

I started 40k in 1992, when I was 12... I couldn't afford much then, which made me think about people (including me) who find the prices today rather expensive.

40k Box Set________________________50_______65_______1.47%

I was really surprised by this - the prices have not really gone up at all, especially taking inflation into account.

Errr what?

I can remember buying the Catachan Battleforce box set in 2001 when Catachans were the only plastic imperial guard you could buy. Plastic Cadians were not released till the second Imperial Guard rule book in 2003.

Anyway getting back on topic, you could buy a battleforce with 20 jungle fighters, a leman russ and two sentinels for £32. IIRC an identically priced, but slightly different battleforce was brought out for the Cadians (I believe it was a heavy weapons squad and Command Squad instead of the sentinels?). This is also prior to armoured sentinals and for Catachan sentinel outside of the box set, you had to buy a £4.50-£7.50 conversion kit, I believe the armoured steel legion sentinels required metal parts from forge world.

Now it costs around £28 for three ogryns.... and the defence force which is only slightly larger than the old battle force is now £100!!!!

i don't know if anyone can remember the composition and size of the original 4th ed set's that where about £115-£135 a pop?

The whole idea that the quality has increased, thus the price has been raised is rubbish! Especially seeing the basic Catachan troops are some of the oldest plastics we have left and are still drastically more expensive than when they were initially released!

**jah-joshua**

Mario wrote:
jah-joshua wrote:
i want Space Marine models that look exactly like the GW Space Marine illustrations...
for that, i have to buy GW...

If the models actually looked like this instead of this then I would be much more accepting of their prices but as it is I don't feel like they deserve the Porsches comparison and price (to put it in simple terms).

showing the old Tac kit in your example just reinforces how much better the new 2013 Tac kit looks...
it has much straighter legs, that make a huge difference...
that power fist is in the FW Command upgrade...

i get your point about why you are not more accepting of the prices, but keep in mind that i have never used the Porsche comparison...
i only compare GW to Past GW, like the title of the thread...
the kits (minus the plastic replacements for the Diaz Daemonettes) are a clear improvement over their previous counterparts...
if you don't see it that way, then nothing i say will convince you...
i just want to be clear that i am only expressing the fact that i think GW has done the design work to convince me that they have improved the look of their kits enough to buy them...

i can sympathize with people who are put off by plastic kits that are 15 years old getting price hikes...
that is unjustified in my opinion...

cheers
jah

**Grimtuff**

Baldeagle91 wrote:
John Wirral wrote:
Just got a copy of the 1997 GW price guide - thought I would do a comparison of a few items - sorry if this exists already somewhere...

I started 40k in 1992, when I was 12... I couldn't afford much then, which made me think about people (including me) who find the prices today rather expensive.

40k Box Set________________________50_______65_______1.47%

I was really surprised by this - the prices have not really gone up at all, especially taking inflation into account.

Errr what?

I can remember buying the Catachan Battleforce box set in 2001 when Catachans were the only plastic imperial guard you could buy. Plastic Cadians were not released till the second Imperial Guard rule book in 2003.

Anyway getting back on topic, you could buy a battleforce with 20 jungle fighters, a leman russ and two sentinels for £32. IIRC an identically priced, but slightly different battleforce was brought out for the Cadians (I believe it was a heavy weapons squad and Command Squad instead of the sentinels?). This is also prior to armoured sentinals and for Catachan sentinel outside of the box set, you had to buy a £4.50-£7.50 conversion kit, I believe the armoured steel legion sentinels required metal parts from forge world.

You are misremembering. Battleforces were all originally £40 RRP (before being bumped up too).

**Baldeagle91**

Grimtuff wrote:
Baldeagle91 wrote:
John Wirral wrote:
Just got a copy of the 1997 GW price guide - thought I would do a comparison of a few items - sorry if this exists already somewhere...

I started 40k in 1992, when I was 12... I couldn't afford much then, which made me think about people (including me) who find the prices today rather expensive.

40k Box Set________________________50_______65_______1.47%

I was really surprised by this - the prices have not really gone up at all, especially taking inflation into account.

Errr what?

I can remember buying the Catachan Battleforce box set in 2001 when Catachans were the only plastic imperial guard you could buy. Plastic Cadians were not released till the second Imperial Guard rule book in 2003.

Anyway getting back on topic, you could buy a battleforce with 20 jungle fighters, a leman russ and two sentinels for £32. IIRC an identically priced, but slightly different battleforce was brought out for the Cadians (I believe it was a heavy weapons squad and Command Squad instead of the sentinels?). This is also prior to armoured sentinals and for Catachan sentinel outside of the box set, you had to buy a £4.50-£7.50 conversion kit, I believe the armoured steel legion sentinels required metal parts from forge world.

You are misremembering. Battleforces were all originally £40 RRP (before being bumped up too).

I actually remember a wide range of prices of Codex's, battleforces etc back then. I actually started the very week GW swapped from 2nd ed to 3rd and you could get all kind of things at knock off prices. But I digress. Back in 3rd you had a variety of prices, normally newer Codex's would have a higher price than the older but same edition ones. This may of been different elsewhere but most defiantly at warhammer world I remember the older codex's being around £2-£4 quid cheaper than the brand new releases. Not sure it was 3rd or 4th ed, but I remember being shocked at seeing a codex at £18.50.

Up until the end of 3rd edition you still used to be able to barter down the price of a box due to it being damaged. I got a discount on the Templer/Dark Elder starter set because of damage to the box, and this was the first show at warhammer world after 3rd ed was released and they had 2nd edition stuff everywhere also on discount. I also remember you could even find slight differences in prices between the Friar Lane shop and Warhammer World, which both were in the same city! I remember getting a Sentinel from friar lane because it was £1 cheaper!

Anyway, I definitely remember the Catachan box set being less than £40, I did look online quickly to see if it could refresh my memory, but I've seen in pounds both £32 and £35, so it may of been slightly higher. I do remember some of the newer battleforces toward the end of 3rd ed being buffed in price until the older ones were updated at the beginning of 4th (although they did add some models). By the time the catachan battleforce was updated in late 4th or early 5th it was reduced to 20 Catachan Jungle Fighters, three Catachan Heavy Weapon Teams and one multi-pose Sentinel for whatever price was used then, I think it was roughly £45, but I had a break from 40k around the same time.

Even then, if you look at the old catachan models, they're now £18 for 10.... for the same sprue that was used in 2001 (or 1999 when they were initially released).... that's pretty much twice the cost, slightly less if you include inflation.

**keezus**

Talys wrote:
I am sometimes blown away by how badly sonme of the new PP plastic releases are tooled. While I am all for moving from metal, resin, and restic, some of their HIPS looks like 2005 GW, where two halves of one cast are slightly misaligned, and where plastic that should be perfect smooth is not. Where it's reasonably fixable, I'll usually keep the model, but sometimes it's just too much work for a 20$+ new model.

I know its trendy to crap all over PP's restic models. They are generally accepted as being awful. There are only two HIPs kits produced by PP. The new stormclad / reliant and the Convergence battle engine. I'm not sure what you are reviewing, considering that "some of the new" is the "only new", considering the stormclad kit only came out two weeks ago, otherwise, you are commenting on the Convergence battle engine..

**BobtheInquisitor**

Talys wrote:
Runic wrote:
All companies have poor looking miniatures, naturally. Usually the very old ones. However, some competitors still put out stuff that looks mediocre at best when it comes to quality, same kind of loss hasn't been seen from GW. I honestly am sometimes surprised when a new PP model comes out, and it looks like it could've come out during MK1.

I am sometimes blown away by how badly sonme of the new PP plastic releases are tooled. While I am all for moving from metal, resin, and restic, some of their HIPS looks like 2005 GW, where two halves of one cast are slightly misaligned, and where plastic that should be perfect smooth is not. Where it's reasonably fixable, I'll usually keep the model, but sometimes it's just too much work for a 20$+ new model.

Malifaux usually has it right in terms of tooling, but unfortunately, I'm not into most of their models. They are certainly not cheap either, and nobody complains that plastic Viktorias are more expensive than metal ones were (by a long shot).

PP has HIPS minis? I thought they had sworn never to do plastic.

**Talys**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:

PP has HIPS minis? I thought they had sworn never to do plastic.

Yeah. The two new Nephilim models are HIPS. The warrior was *awful*. Like, GW2005 quality cast, where the back half of the head was off by a half millimeter from the front. I returned it, which is super rare of me.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

keezus wrote:

I know its trendy to crap all over PP's restic models. They are generally accepted as being awful. There are only two HIPs kits produced by PP. The new stormclad / reliant and the Convergence battle engine. I'm not sure what you are reviewing, considering that "some of the new" is the "only new", considering the stormclad kit only came out two weeks ago, otherwise, you are commenting on the Convergence battle engine..

I don't know how to respond to this other than to say that you're wrong... or the website information is, and the model I opened up was actually a material that just looked and felt just like plastic. This was the guy I returned, released July 22, 2015, the Nephilim Soldier -

http://privateerpress.com/hordes/gallery/legion-of-everblight/warbeasts/nephilim-soldier
(the other guy with the gun, too)

These I kind of want to get, released August 12, 2015, also plastic, Aradus - but I haven't seen the physical model, as the place I go to for my PP stuff is relocating next month and not bringing in new stock.

http://privateerpress.com/hordes/gallery/skorne/warbeasts/aradus-soldier
http://privateerpress.com/hordes/gallery/skorne/warbeasts/aradus-sentinel

**ImAGeek**

Erm, no, the new Nephilim are PVC. The only HIPS models they have out are the Convergence battle engine, and the Stormclad/Reliant. The next HIPS model will be the Farrow Meat Thresher in November. The trouble is, they label both types of plastic as just 'plastic' on their website, because both are technically plastic. Those Aradus are PVC I think. PP did say they were saving HIPS for mechanical stuff for now, with organic stuff still being PVC.

Here's an unboxing to show you:
http://losthemisphere.com/wp/2015/07/new-nephs/
No sprue or anything. These are PVC. Their HIPS models come on a sprue:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/08/warmachine-unboxing-the-new-plastic-reliantstormclad-kit.html

The only one I'm not sure about is Denny3, because she has the detail and relative lack of mould lines that HIPS would have, but she doesn't come on sprues for the most part. Unless it's just a very good PVC cast.
http://losthemisphere.com/wp/2015/08/deneghra-the-soul-weaver-denny3/

And in terms of the new Viktoria crew from Malifaux being more, I don't know how much the old one cost, but the old one did have 5 models while the new one has 7. The plastic crews generally have more models than the old metal ones.

**Kilkrazy**

jah-joshua wrote:
@Killkrazy: did you really just "Gundam" this thread???
if i wanted a Gundam, rather than a Space Marine, i would buy Gundam...
as it stands, i don't want to paint Gundams, i want to paint Space Marines...

...

That exactly illustrates my point.

You are happy to pay £22 for an Adeptus Mechanicus Dominus 28mm infantry figure because it appeals to your aesthetic preferences.

Considered objectively as a set of plastic sprues it is a very expensive kit given its size and lack of complexity, options and so on. You are paying for the fact it is a GW kit.

Leaving out Gundam, £22 could buy you 42 American Civil War Zouaves if you were interested in making a colourful diorama, or a regiment for an ACW wargame.

I'm not trying to convince you that the ACW set is good value, because it isn't unless you are interested in ACW.

**jah-joshua**

@Killkrazy: i don't disagree with your point, i just thought it was funny that we are back at, "i can get something different for less"...
it doesn't matter that there is a different style of miniature out there for less money, if it does not match what i actually want...

to split hairs a bit, to you i am paying for the fact that it is a GW kit, but for me, i am paying for the fact that it is an Adeptus Mechanicus kit...
the art and fiction that give context to the kit make it more than just a set of plastic sprues, they make it a Tech-Priest Dominus...
if you want to look at it objectively, cool, but i look at it passionately, as someone who is an Ad Mech fan getting the best Ad Mech mini produced so far...
it is miles beyond any model in my metal Skullz Ad Mech set, and to me, that is a beautiful thing...

cheers
jah