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 skoffs wrote:
Who the hell thought it would be a better idea to roll for random attack AFTER choosing the target?!
(choosing your target after you know what power you're going to be using would have made them usable. In this form? Well, I guess GW was just tired of selling C'tan models...)

In the grim darkness of the 41th millenium, there're only random tables and forged narratives.

No, seriously, the game just gets more and more random as time passes. Can't wait for CSM to get their update including a new God of Random, whose mark will force us to roll everything on random tables, through all the game phases, all the time.

 Korinov wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Who the hell thought it would be a better idea to roll for random attack AFTER choosing the target?!
(choosing your target after you know what power you're going to be using would have made them usable. In this form? Well, I guess GW was just tired of selling C'tan models...)

In the grim darkness of the 41th millenium, there're only random tables and forged narratives.

No, seriously, the game just gets more and more random as time passes. Can't wait for CSM to get their update including a new God of Random, whose mark will force us to roll everything on random tables, through all the game phases, all the time.

We're progressing towards a 2 step game system:
1) Roll a d6, on a roll of 4+ you win the game, otherwise you lose.
2) Proceed to forge a narrative.

I have a question about the Decurion....

So is that's the new "detachment/formation"?

There're some manditory things to take? Court. Troops etc

Then... if you want to get say an anhillation barge, you have to get 2 plus a ghost arc?

Am I reading that right?

 doktor_g wrote:
I have a question about the Decurion....

So is that's the new "detachment/formation"?

There're some manditory things to take? Court. Troops etc

Then... if you want to get say an anhillation barge, you have to get 2 plus a ghost arc?

Am I reading that right?

Only if you want to use the Decurion thing.

You can always just use a CAD/AD as allowed by the BRB.

There're some manditory things to take?

1OL/1Immortals/2Warriors/1TBlades

, you have to get 2 plus a ghost arc?

Well, its a Dooms Day Ark but, yes, to field a 'annihilation nexus' and get what ever bonus that applies to it, you have to buy the whole thing.

This is GW's way to encouraging the player base to play the Necron faction in a way consistent with their vision.
Not with winning a game as the goal, mind you, but to roll some dice, drink some beer and ogle some nicely painted models.
Everyone wins! Yeah!
I think the WD even indicated that the Decurion layout is a collecting guide.

The CAD/FOC is left for those people who want to play the game inconsistent with GW's vision.

You negative nancies are being ridiculous. Bitching about ctan powers in which you probably never even played with a ctan during 5th or 6th. I'm tired of reading about "wah, random powers". Just deal with it and wait til the codex comes out. Let's wait to see the entire codex before you can make judgements and if they change your cookie cutter units in 7th, awww, you might have have to wait a few weeks for the internet to tell you what's good and OP.

If those rules are correct I'm more interested in the nightbringer and deceiver working togeather.

The Deceiver gives a -2LD aura around it and the nightbringer gives ap2 WOUNDS that are 3d6 -LD to a nonvehicle unit. If they go walking around hand in handthat 3d6 -ld wounds becomes 3d6+2 -ld in wounds. What is the most common LD 8-9? Well that now become a 6-7 average on 3d6 is 10.5 that is now a difference from 2.5-1.5 wounds to 4.5-3.5 thats double to triple the dead marines and you haven't even done shooting yet. Then again it IS (if the prices are right) 480 for the pair so they better be giving me something good out of it. And IF they get their 12" move you have an effective 24" area of nearly unavoidable wounds.

But that is a bunch of "what-ifs".

As for the random shooting I'm glad none of it is "useless" on anything av 12 or lower. I run the shards quite often for giggles and I'm glad that they can now have a chance to be usful against nearly everything rather than only sorta useful against a single focus and for the most part LESS points than 5th's c'tan shards (if you want one to be useful anyway). I feel this is an overall BUFF to the C'tan shards but it is a major nerf to the T C'tan like others have stated.

I wnder if the T C'tan is going to be moved down from it's LOW spot because of this? I would assume so.

The str bump to the DDark is nice as long as they reduce the price cost at the same time. hope they either remove the combat speed shot . OH BIG thing I just noticed with using the Reclimation Legion it gives everything relentless even the DDark. meaning it CAN move and fire it's main gun if you take this formation. I think this can be a overlooked thing from everyone and could make them useable.

SO far I'm enjoying the spoilers that are coming out aside from the possible Zhandrek one of he can pick different warlord traits. It's nice I guess?


Edit: Another thought. Is anything else going to be getting Entropic strike now? or is it gonna remain as scarabs as the only ones who have it? Odd that a special rule is only for a single unit. Maybe Flayed ones will have an upgrade to get entropic strike instead of shred who knows.

Oberron wrote:

The str bump to the DDark is nice as long as they reduce the price cost at the same time. hope they either remove the combat speed shot . OH BIG thing I just noticed with using the Reclimation Legion it gives everything relentless even the DDark. meaning it CAN move and fire it's main gun if you take this formation. I think this can be a overlooked thing from everyone and could make them useable.

Vehicles are relentless. The Doomsday Ark cannot shoot using it's better profile while moving because of the rules of the ark itself.

Also the Doomsday Ark is part of a formation within the Decurion, not the Legion. The Legion is part of the Decurion, not the Decurion itself.

specia_k_squared wrote:
You negative nancies are being ridiculous. Bitching about ctan powers in which you probably never even played with a ctan during 5th or 6th. I'm tired of reading about "wah, random powers". Just deal with it and wait til the codex comes out. Let's wait to see the entire codex before you can make judgements and if they change your cookie cutter units in 7th, awww, you might have have to wait a few weeks for the internet to tell you what's good and OP.

yes, there is often quite a bit of "OMG, THIS SUCKS!".

However, there are upon occasion intelligent individuals who are good at deducing trends based off of fragments of information and past experiences.

IF the tables and information we have seen (the specific random powers, the point costs, the 4++save) is correct, then individuals who have USED and also FACED ctan in previous editions can indeed give educated opinions regarding the projected effectiveness or desirability of the units.

Furthermore, not all players use "cookie cutter" units, in fact, creative players who have long used necrons (as opposed to codex hoppers who just wanted the newest shiny) WANT the ctan to be useful again (as they were YEARS ago) - and thus perfer not have their lists all look the same.

Personally, for me, I love the fluff for the ctan (the real fluff, from our old codex - as IF the deceiver would allow himself to be sharded....) and want them to be decent enough on the table so taking one is not a liability, or a sacrifice for nostalgia.

But you are right - whiners are not productive - neither the ones who bitch without thought or experience,nor the ones who bitch about the former.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

Vehicles are relentless. The Doomsday Ark cannot shoot using it's better profile while moving because of the rules of the ark itself.

Also the Doomsday Ark is part of a formation within the Decurion, not the Legion. The Legion is part of the Decurion, not the Decurion itself.

Derp forgot about that basic rule

Doesn't everything in the formation as a whole gain the special rules?Maybe I was reading wrong

davethepak wrote:

specia_k_squared wrote:
You negative nancies are being ridiculous. Bitching about ctan powers in which you probably never even played with a ctan during 5th or 6th. I'm tired of reading about "wah, random powers". Just deal with it and wait til the codex comes out. Let's wait to see the entire codex before you can make judgements and if they change your cookie cutter units in 7th, awww, you might have have to wait a few weeks for the internet to tell you what's good and OP.

yes, there is often quite a bit of "OMG, THIS SUCKS!".

However, there are upon occasion intelligent individuals who are good at deducing trends based off of fragments of information and past experiences.

IF the tables and information we have seen (the specific random powers, the point costs, the 4++save) is correct, then individuals who have USED and also FACED ctan in previous editions can indeed give educated opinions regarding the projected effectiveness or desirability of the units.

Furthermore, not all players use "cookie cutter" units, in fact, creative players who have long used necrons (as opposed to codex hoppers who just wanted the newest shiny) WANT the ctan to be useful again (as they were YEARS ago) - and thus perfer not have their lists all look the same.

Personally, for me, I love the fluff for the ctan (the real fluff, from our old codex - as IF the deceiver would allow himself to be sharded....) and want them to be decent enough on the table so taking one is not a liability, or a sacrifice for nostalgia.

But you are right - whiners are not productive - neither the ones who bitch without thought or experience,nor the ones who bitch about the former.

The Deceiver is the most likely to allow himself to be sharded in that frankly I wouldn't put it past him to still be fully aware and in control of all his selves like that.

davethepak wrote:
Personally, for me, I love the fluff for the ctan (the real fluff, from our old codex - as IF the deceiver would allow himself to be sharded....)

A kindred spirit! The Deceiver is my favourite 40k character, ever since reading Deus Ex Mechanicus. I'm lucky enough that my friend allows me to use the 3rd edition C'tan rules if I want to field them as he's a huge fan of the 3rd edition (real) Necron fluff. Matt Ward gave me lemons and I made lemonade in the form of a dynasty that worships the Deceiver and is gathering every single shard they can find, taking them by force from other dynasties if needs be.

changemod wrote:
The Deceiver is the most likely to allow himself to be sharded in that frankly I wouldn't put it past him to still be fully aware and in control of all his selves like that.

That was my thinking. He broke a portion of himself off and allowed it to be shattered. It's very likely that Orikan is a shard of the Deceiver in my opinion.

 MoonlightSonata wrote:

davethepak wrote:
Personally, for me, I love the fluff for the ctan (the real fluff, from our old codex - as IF the deceiver would allow himself to be sharded....)

A kindred spirit! The Deceiver is my favourite 40k character, ever since reading Deus Ex Mechanicus. I'm lucky enough that my friend allows me to use the 3rd edition C'tan rules if I want to field them as he's a huge fan of the 3rd edition (real) Necron fluff. Matt Ward gave me lemons and I made lemonade in the form of a dynasty that worships the Deceiver and is gathering every single shard they can find, taking them by force from other dynasties if needs be.

changemod wrote:
The Deceiver is the most likely to allow himself to be sharded in that frankly I wouldn't put it past him to still be fully aware and in control of all his selves like that.

That was my thinking. He broke a portion of himself off and allowed it to be shattered. It's very likely that Orikan is a shard of the Deceiver in my opinion.

Quite.

Supposedly the Deceiver turned on the other Ctan - what better way fluff wise than to do it, by having the necrons do his dirty work, and shard them for him!

Now, of course, I understand WHY the writers thought they needed to weaken the ctan - they lacked the creativity to write how a being of such immense power could be played on a game representing a battlefield. I think they totally missed it - for example, to me, it would just be a matter of scale.
Sure, a ctan can stop the fusion in a star - but what if it took him years. Nothing to his life span, but useless in a tactical sense.
Or think of them like exterminatus to the imperium - the ctan on the battlefield has two choices - either restrain himself to a measly amount of force (i.e. powers that would not break the game) or use his full power, and blow up the planet - not always tactically desireable.

This would be a fluffy reason why ctan could be used on the table top - they are having to hold back so much, as to otherwise exterminate the planet.
(think of it as trying to play with an infant - you can only use a fraction of your power, or rather risk doing damage you did not want to do).

Anyway, I ramble to fellow Ctan fanatics...

Regarding the rumors - I think the random damage table I can live with, to be honest, I will just not be able to rely on him for shooting - it will just be a tactical bonus.
If he has a decent save (the non invul one) and WS and attacks, I can just use him as a CC beast.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the old cyan esp. The deceiver. Probably one of the best units for a while, but guys are complaining about something they don't even know they entire rules for. I have probably played against crons probably more than anyone on this current forum. I have also played crons and took 6th at adepticons TT without using wraiths,ABs, and CCBs.

As an experienced player, I look forward to the new codex in so that I can find new ways to playing an army. Yes,some of the units are not the easy push button units, and that's good. It pushes gamers to think outside of the box and pushes the game forward. But for the gamers on here complaining about change to their codex,is dumb. I remember when elder came out and guys were complaining about wave serpents and their cost when they first got the codex. Now almost every list has them.

Let's be excited about the new codex and not so down on these tidbits of rumors.

Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now.

 Korinov wrote:
No, seriously, the game just gets more and more random as time passes.

Not really. Go far enough back and it was a LOT more random than it is now.

The biggest differences are in their remaining powers
Nightbringer- fleshbane and Gaze of Death targets non-vehicles 12" and takes AP2 wounds equal to 3d6 minus leadership

Deceiver- hit and run, Dread-enemy units within 12" -2 leadership, and Grand Illusion- after scouts redeploy d3 units within 12"and the deceiver through normal deployment or put in reserves.

Transcendent- Deepstrike, and Writhing Worldscape- open ground in 6" is difficult terrain."

This is the good stuff here. The D6 shooting only really affects the Transcendent and the Vault, as they lost their Apoc powers, but the regular shards (who's 5th ed powers were lacklustre anyways) ought to treat it as a bonus goof roll.

I love me that Nightbringer Gaze of Death change, plus fleshbane so he comes out on top against other MCs.

And the Deceiver is starting to look like his old self again with hit and run. That new Dread rule can combo with Abyssal Staffs.

T-Ct'an gets the shaft, but that's what he gets for dressing like a gimp anyways.

The biggest issue is survivability for all three, forcing you to take a God-Shackle. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the relics allows the C'tans a reroll on the D6.

I have no doubt that there will be some C'Tan shenanigans plus we still don't know the Crypteks new powers.

Veiltek may have lost the deep strike ability.

 Victory wrote:
And the Deceiver is starting to look like his old self again with hit and run. That new Dread rule can combo with Abyssal Staffs.

Oh, that is very, very nice.

I was wondering how he'd get any meaningful damage done, but teleporting and two Abyssal Staves followed by his random attack is devastating. Hit and run lets the unit flee tarpits too.

changemod wrote:

teleporting and two Abyssal Staves followed by his random attack is devastating

Feel free to name the tactic after me; it'd be very suitable, I'll tell you that.

If they still even have that ability! Also, how is he teleporting , I'm pretty sure the formation is a C'Tan Shard.

 Victory wrote:

changemod wrote:

teleporting and two Abyssal Staves followed by his random attack is devastating

Feel free to name the tactic after me; it'd be very suitable, I'll tell you that.

But you have no brain! How could someone with no brain make a tactic?
SERVITORS ARE NOT GENERALS!!!

Since the C'tan will apparently suck I suppose you could use those points for 9-10 Preatorians.

Wouldn't Mephrit Dynasty be the prefered FOC if you want to reroll your 1's on RP? It doesn't force you to run jank...

I hope this helps!

I made a post combining all the rumors and leaks we have so far.

Will update it as we get more stuff.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2015/01/24/rumor-it-necron-leaked-rules-rumors-compendium/

 tastytaste wrote:
I hope this helps!

I made a post combining all the rumors and leaks we have so far.

Will update it as we get more stuff.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2015/01/24/rumor-it-necron-leaked-rules-rumors-compendium/

You say 8 formations , but isnt it 12?

specia_k_squared wrote:
You negative nancies are being ridiculous. Bitching about ctan powers in which you probably never even played with a ctan during 5th or 6th. I'm tired of reading about "wah, random powers". Just deal with it and wait til the codex comes out. Let's wait to see the entire codex before you can make judgements and if they change your cookie cutter units in 7th, awww, you might have have to wait a few weeks for the internet to tell you what's good and OP.

This is a rumors discussion thread. If you can gush about how excited you are with each new rumor, then others are certainly entitled to express themselves to the contrary. This isn't an echo chamber, sorry, and blind optimism isn't preferable to skepticism.

As for your "lul WAAC EZ mode" strawman, there's a world of difference between a mechanic being "not trash" and "EZ mode IWInbutton". If the rumors about how the C'tan's powers work are accurate, it's simply bad. It makes the unit entirely unreliable unless your target is guardsmen or equivalent. It being completely unreliable might not bother you, which is perfectly fine, but that doesn't mean it's functional.

Hollismason wrote:
I have no doubt that there will be some C'Tan shenanigans plus we still don't know the Crypteks new powers.

Veiltek may have lost the deep strike ability.

It's pretty scary either way tbh, as the dude earlier pointed out. If the powers are completely random then the model isn't very good- if the powers can be manually selected somehow, I.E. through wargear, than it's godly and pretty cray for ~250 points. A re-roll would probably be the best middle-ground. Missed opportunity with the god-shackled there, imo.

It'll be very interesting to see what GW does.

- - - - -

On an unrelated note, I've been thinking about the wraiths all day.A move to T5 would be interesting, but with two wounds that'd be a little crazy. They're already only a little bit more expensive than spawn despite being way better- making them immune to Str8+ ID would be ridiculous. On the other hand, I feel like T5 W1 with a 3+ 4++ could be pretty crippling, especially against MC's.

specia_k_squared wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I loved the old cyan esp. The deceiver. Probably one of the best units for a while, but guys are complaining about something they don't even know they entire rules for. I have probably played against crons probably more than anyone on this current forum. I have also played crons and took 6th at adepticons TT without using wraiths,ABs, and CCBs.

As an experienced player, I look forward to the new codex in so that I can find new ways to playing an army. Yes,some of the units are not the easy push button units, and that's good. It pushes gamers to think outside of the box and pushes the game forward. But for the gamers on here complaining about change to their codex,is dumb. I remember when elder came out and guys were complaining about wave serpents and their cost when they first got the codex. Now almost every list has them.

Let's be excited about the new codex and not so down on these tidbits of rumors.

Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now.

I remember when people were saying the wraith knight was a POS in the eldar forum too, now you see them in every list because they are insane value.

I have a feeling that if the T C'tan is in fact S8 T7 5W 4++ and still moves a foot ignoring terrain, he will be the necron version of the wraith knight for sure. He has one less T and W but the 4++ makes him WAY more useful against enemy characters and MC's. Heck, we don't even have all his perks yet and I would take one in every Necron list, he basically is the tank that the CCB is now for cheaper.

Hollismason wrote:

 tastytaste wrote:
I hope this helps!

I made a post combining all the rumors and leaks we have so far.

Will update it as we get more stuff.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2015/01/24/rumor-it-necron-leaked-rules-rumors-compendium/

You say 8 formations , but isnt it 12?

8 Formations is what it says in the Codex description found on GW website

Hm ,

I realy do not have that much problems with the C'than. Sure... Random sucks.. But the powers are great. Yeah i know random. But if you rely on one single model to bring death to vehicles with crons you are doing something wrong IMO. Gauss, scarabs, heavy gauss canons, tachyon arrow, heat ray, anything entropic, short range haywire cryptek particle whip... Heck even tesla destructor,particle shredder and cc scythe attacks for medium and light vehicles.

And wow... Worries about not enough ap2 attacks for av 2 armour? Lol.. Ffs... Just tesla them biatchezzzz, mass volume of fire works better in most situations than one or 2 ap2 attacks.

But hey what about MC's? Ah well idk,.... Shackle them large bugs up, or wait, rapid fire rending on 2's them up with deathmarks works just fine.. And what about anything str 6 and up reliable wounding them? Also scythes murder them... But hey! What about them flying ones? Oh idk.... Being a good shooting army, how about just mass fire them out of the ffing sky?

Now the problem would be losing all this in the new dex... But that doesnt seem likely hmm? Well see very soon

As long as you select a non vehicle unit it's perfectly fine. Selecting a Vehicle is kind of a dicey proposition.

I'll be honest, I like the new rumors. It really feels like the Necrons are getting nice and balanced (if they're all true). I don't think I'll be dropping my Sisters right this second to play them, but that depends on the codex itself when it comes out. I like a book that feels like it's got some balance, or maybe even feels a touch underpowered because I always feel bad if I win too easily. I'm personally pretty stubborn and will play to the last model of mine is killed, but I know not everyone is like that or enjoys that level of challenge, so to me the Codex looks pretty good. The new 32mm bases on the models looks like it might make the army a touch more resilient to blast templates too.

And I know some people aren't too happy about the flavor being taken away from RP, but honestly I feel it streamlines how the game nicely and will take smoother game play over fluffier play in the long run.

So yeah, this will be the first codex I've bought since Orks came out, though a large part of that has to do more with available funds and free time more than anything else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tastytaste wrote:

Hollismason wrote:

 tastytaste wrote:
I hope this helps!

I made a post combining all the rumors and leaks we have so far.

Will update it as we get more stuff.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2015/01/24/rumor-it-necron-leaked-rules-rumors-compendium/

You say 8 formations , but isnt it 12?

8 Formations is what it says in the Codex description found on GW website

This looks like it should be 10 (assuming the whole Decurion is a formation itself):