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So, it doesn't look like there'll be a KS Update this weekend. Here's their commitment to keeping backers informed since their last KS Update.

PBWU, Sept 10th, "And we’ll try to do more Kickstarter updates."

PBWU, Sept 18th, "And we’ll try to do more Kickstarter updates."

PBWU, Sept 24th, "And we’ll try to do more Kickstarter updates."

PBWU, Oct 2nd, "And we’ll try to do more Kickstarter updates."

They may be trying, but they're failing. Badly. And consistently.

Hopefully they're not going to get even more complacent (is that even possible?) with the apparent lack of engagement by the Michigan AG.

From what Stormonu posted over on the KS Comments, there was this bit that I think is important.
"The information you submitted will be retained in our department files to assist us in responding to future consumer inquiries and to monitor possible patterns of unfair or deceptive business practices.".
So, while the current claim may have been quashed, they've left a door open by which they'll reconsider should more people come forth.
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Additionally, I think PB is shooting themselves in the foot with their responses to the BBB and Michigan AG regarding claiming retail value of product sent.

From a comparative perspective.
Provided: Book/counters/cards/dice and 2/3 of the miniatures by count
Remaining: 1/3 of the miniatures by count
Arguable refund: 25% (counting all non miniatures as a quarter of the box) of $130US, or just over $30US (on a pledge of $130US)
Less if they argue the book/counters/cards/dice is worth more than a quarter

From their declared perspective.
Provided = 1x Base Box, 2x Valkyrie boxes, 2x BattlePod Boxes, 1x Zentradi Command, 1x Zentradi Artillery, 1x S/P Destroid = 100 + 74 + 74 + 33 + 33 + 33 = 347 provided (they claim 354.60)
Remaining: 4 Character Models, 3 Gnerl, 3MPA, 3FPA, 2SVA, 2Lancer, 2 Ghost = 88 + 22 + 33 + 45 + 52 + 33 + 33 = 306 remaining (all prices based on the initial listed prices, vs the current MSRP prices).
Arguable refund = ~45% of $130US, or just over $60US.

I can't see how anyone can argue that what you paid for at a specified discount can be fulfilled by counting value at MSRP (though Kevin appears to be doing just that), so it arguably comes down to proportionality. And by using retail, they've potentially cost themselves twice as much as they might otherwise have. That's assuming of course, that the partially fulfilled component is worth anything. According to the ToU for Kickstarter at the time, "Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.". Arguably, they haven't fulfilled a Battlecry. If they don't, it's entirely possible (but highly unlikely) that a literal interpretation means they owe full $130 per BC ($120 for those at Showdown/Reckless) might be legally feasible. Which would be a hilarious precedent.

OK and the $40 they collected for my Monster? If they're doing refunds, I'd expect the full $40 back.

Oh god, it actually does have the line you quoted in each one!
I thought you might have typed it for comedic effect.
I guess Kevin typed it for comedic effect.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
OK and the $40 they collected for my Monster? If they're doing refunds, I'd expect the full $40 back.

Oh, anything ordered and still outstanding (ie anything beyond the 6 retail expansion boxes that I can't see more than a handful of people picking up) would be due a full refund. I was only calculating out the one partial item, the Battlecry. That's likely to be the biggest point of contention, as it's only partially fulfilled, and likely makes up the majority of funding.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Joyboozer wrote:
Oh god, it actually does have the line you quoted in each one!
I thought you might have typed it for comedic effect.
I guess Kevin typed it for comedic effect.

Yup. All there. Though I doubt Kevin did it for comedic effect (though the effect is to make us laugh AT him).

It's a copy/paste, that he doesn't even bother to check. It's an ongoing issue that goes back to when I paid attention at the start of the campaign. He'd occasionally copy/paste release dates, and not check to see that they'd passed. I think I recall a February 2014 release date for the Colonial Marines, that was posted in an April 2014 PBWU. It, like most things Palladium, is laughed at, not laughed with.

Colonial Marines?

"Colonial Marines"?

YOU COPYING AND PASTING PUNK! Are you a PB employee in disguise? I thought you were a friend! I hate you!

I sent this mail to PB thru KS half a month ago, no response and from what I have heard they do not intend to refund my money, oh joy.

Where is Wave 2 ?
Where is Wave 2 ?
Sep 15 2015
Inform who ever is in charge I am requesting a refund of $120 for the following items:

$20 Armored Valkyries
$30 Zentraedi Infantry
$20 SDF-1

and

$50 for the 27 undelivered minis from my Battlecry pledge

this will be a limited time offer.

This project has been run with no regard for the backers and has been lack luster in information, the backers have been mistreated and misled, and if forced to I will take this to all legal extremes I have to, i've got the ball rolling and only have to wait till Dec. to finish it.

the ball is in your court, your choice. refund me my money or come up with actual facts and evidence of anything being done on wave 2 or I will seek legal remedies.

now for those of you who insist PB is not out of money, wouldn't it be a smart move on their part to refund my $120 since I am supposedly the ring leader and/or mastermind behind all the gak they are now getting, for a mere $120 they could be rid of me, and yet they are not, so either they lied about me being the mastermind and will try to use me as a scape goat later, or they just don't have the money, which do you think it is?

Is it ok that I am allowing the Battletech KS to distract me?
Software based stomping robots seems more a sure thing to me now.

2017 delivery date... place your bets which KS finishes first?

Wondering what my fearless government is doing with all the info I sent them.

Doing a move, surprised how much stuff I have, possessions are evil. Guess I will have to update my address in the forlorn hope of a delivery.

Placing a bet on that would be tacit admission that you believe 100% that palladium will finish delivering in full on the kickstarter eventually. I abstain.

new update posted and its about a rule change is all.

So I backed the draken 3d printer kickstarter on Feb 15th of this year and just received the printer. A company was able to make the thing that makes all the things faster than wave 2.

I'm printing all the macross minis I want!

 Swabby wrote:
So I backed the draken 3d printer kickstarter on Feb 15th of this year and just received the printer. A company was able to make the thing that makes all the things faster than wave 2.

I'm printing all the macross minis I want!

lucky you, me I still have to send my files into SW and get them printed thru them, but do have a Cats eye a new armored VF version and some invid along with other stuff being printed right now.

 Swabby wrote:
So I backed the draken 3d printer kickstarter on Feb 15th of this year and just received the printer. A company was able to make the thing that makes all the things faster than wave 2.

I'm printing all the macross minis I want!

Post a review/start a thread somewhere once you've had a chance to mess around with it. I've been curious about this one, theoretically the numbers (resolution wise) are there for miniatures printing, but some of the photos I've seen of its output looked like it still wasnt quite fine enough to do finely detailed minis.

As a backer pointed out in the KS Comments, there's actual information in this weeks PBWU.

"As for Wave Two, we continue to explore our options with regard to manufacturing and reduced piece count. We thought we had something that would work, but some concerns have been raised and we are looking into it more as well as into other options."

That information being that some of the progress forward, has stalled, if not gone backwards. No mention of a new timeline, or even an abandonment of the old one. But if they're looking into other options, the Adepticon based "End of Year" is well and truly done, and I don't see Q1 even being close to realistic. At this point, Q2 might be unattainable too, if one of those options is changing manufacturers. But it's unclear WHAT those concerns and options are, as in typical PB fashion, they're vague as hell, "plenty of behind the scenes insight" be damned.

That's of course giving the benefit of the doubt that PB actually intend to complete Wave 2. If you don't believe that's the case, obviously it's just more pablum from Pablumium Books.

Anyone else think the something they thought would work was a response from a manufacturer that was later explained to them as sarcasm?

Joyboozer wrote:
Anyone else think the something they thought would work was a response from a manufacturer that was later explained to them as sarcasm?

Could be anything, really.

"We thought we could simplify things by making the miniatures out of tapioca. But that didn't turn out to be a valid option."

"After much consideration and research, making them out of LEGO(TM) wasn't viable. Nor was making them out of K'Nex, Megablox or Meccano. Because we wanted to explore all options."

"We attempted to pay the amount owed our manufacturers for Wave 2 with signed Palladium RPG titles, and back issues of the Rifter. But they declined (bad move on their part, right?), and we're scrambling to find the funds between our sofa cushions.".

"Kevin had us sit in a circle, hold hands, close our eyes, and *wish* Wave 2 into existence. Didn't work like it did back in '06. Kevin thinks the unpaid intern wasn't wishing hard enough, so he was let go. Kevin wanted to dock his pay too, and didn't understand why that wasn't possible. So, he settled for firing Jeff again.".

"We tried to change manufacturers, because you know, 'those guys' weren't doing their jobs. We've been patient, but they're obviously not capable of dealing with Kevin's genius. For some reason though, with every other manufacturer we contacted, after we explained the situation, the work required and our budget moving forward, there was this weird 'bwahahaha' sound, and we got disconnected. Must be an issue with Chinese telecommunication infrastructure, or something."

Morgan Vening wrote:
As a backer pointed out in the KS Comments, there's actual information in this weeks PBWU.

"As for Wave Two, we continue to explore our options with regard to manufacturing and reduced piece count. We thought we had something that would work, but some concerns have been raised and we are looking into it more as well as into other options."

That should read as follows.

"As for Wave Two, we continure to [gaze at our navels] with regard to manufacturing [single piece cubic blocks and giving you guys a miniature hammer and chisel so you can carve them yourselves as that's about all we can afford]. We thought that would work, but [Kevin said that would break our promise of mouth-watering detail] and we are looking [at our navels again] as well as [our intestines from the inside]."

I just figured they switched topics mid paragraph and forgot to mention it.

As for Wave Two, we continue to explore our options with regard to manufacturing and reduced piece count. For lunch, we thought we had something that would work (chinese), but some concerns have been raised (MSG? Can we comp it to the Robotech KS since we spent 5 total minutes right before on wave 2 this week?) and we are looking into it more as well as into other options like Subway.

Does PB sound desperate here?

Licensing

Palladium is looking for licensing opportunities (and partners) for our many I.P.s. We would especially love to see licenses for Rifts®, Splicers®, Nightbane®, Heroes Unlimited, BTS, and . . . well, all our I.P.s as board games, miniature games, card games, videogames, etc. In the meanwhile, we’re excited about the upcoming adaptation of the Rifts® RPG to the Savage Worlds® game system.

A RIFTS tactical battle game would be pretty cool. Too bad it'll never happen, as PB lacks the money; nobody would back it if PB did the KS; and PB won't let go of their baby.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
A RIFTS tactical battle game would be pretty cool. Too bad it'll never happen, as PB lacks the money; nobody would back it if PB did the KS; and PB won't let go of their baby.

Well, they tried those minis before. Sold as well as Pet Rocks....in 1985.

Merijeek wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
A RIFTS tactical battle game would be pretty cool. Too bad it'll never happen, as PB lacks the money; nobody would back it if PB did the KS; and PB won't let go of their baby.

Well, they tried those minis before. Sold as well as Pet Rocks....in 1985.

Pet rocks had better sculpted detail than most Rifts minis. I had a bunch.

Last year there was a group attempting to make a RIFTs minis game, but it fell through because Palladium is terrible to work with.

 Cyporiean wrote:
Last year there was a group attempting to make a RIFTs minis game, but it fell through because Palladium is terrible to work with.

Don't be ridiculous. The current employees and freelancers all say Kevin is fair and kind and generous and loving and talented and especially a straight shooter. Kevin told us so.

Not surprised that it died and won't restart.

This joke of a KS has ceased being funny. Now their progress reports are nothing but steps backward (not that I even trust they are true anymore).

 Stormonu wrote:
This joke of a KS has ceased being funny. Now their progress reports are nothing but steps backward (not that I even trust they are true anymore).

It it really a step backward if they were "advertising" all those potential steps forward back in the Spring but never actually bothered to move their feet in the 6 months since? The remainder of the rewards in this kickstarter are treading water like the folks who initially got off of the Titanic after it went under. The longer the "rescue" takes, less of them actually end up making it to shore before they succumb from other things beyond just wave 1 hit the iceberg upon release.

 warboss wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
This joke of a KS has ceased being funny. Now their progress reports are nothing but steps backward (not that I even trust they are true anymore).

It it really a step backward if they were "advertising" all those potential steps forward back in the Spring but never actually bothered to move their feet in the 6 months since? The remainder of the rewards in this kickstarter are treading water like the folks who initially got off of the Titanic after it went under. The longer the "rescue" takes, less of them actually end up making it to shore before they succumb from other things beyond just wave 1 hit the iceberg upon release.

I would think "here's the sprue layout for five items" to "nah, we're not going to do it that way because we want less parts" is a step back.

Wow, and here I thought this game would just explode and become immensely popular... The kickstarter was huge, were they hoping for massive retail support too? What was the big cost in this?

I have received many kickstarters with more minis that were better detailed (or better quality plastic) in half the time.

Soooo glad I sold my wave 1 and recouped 80% of my kickstarter cost.

This is how I imagine the typical PB workday goes.

After stumbling into work they do a few order fulfillments and fill out paperwork. Mid- to late-morning Kevin invites everyone to watch a movie in the warehouse or some really funny youtube videos he has been bookmarking all morning.
After the videos, extended lunch.
After lunch, they sit around the conference room gaming.
Post-gaming includes cleaning up and perhaps some late afternoon order fulfillment.
If the gaming session or the movie was inspiring to Kevin, then he gets a brainstorm that means actual worktime. Wayne calls his family to say it wll be a late night.

Nonsense. That schedule leaves no time to update fanfriends on and photoshop pics of the various fowl and wildlife in the parking lot. Then there is the Stuart Smiley Affirmation that every employee must give their boss daily in orde to qualify for a paycheck. Plus you must leave at least an hour in the day to gripe about those ungrateful curs that they graciously let back their kickstarter and are now unreasonably demanding rewards within several years of the advertised completion date. Oh, and the 5 minute brainstorming/google search about what to do with Robotech so that they can technically say they're "working" on robotech to satisfy the minimum legal requirements in their opinion.