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probably a silly question but are the lesser daemons what used to be Khorne bloodletters and Nurgle's plague bearers (etc.)?

are they any good in the new codex?  I have been putting together a chaos army list from the new codex but I haven't even thought about using these squads.

the short answer to your first question is, "yes"

the scientific answer is, "they can be useful". They have an OK statline, they can assault the turn they deepstrike and they've lost the instability rules instead being fearless.

I would bet in 2000 you can't go wrong with a couple of six man squads deepstriking, especially if you already have icons and bikes.

the critic answer is, "but they aren't the game breakers they used to be". Altho you can technically take as many individual squads that you like, redundancy always has strategic value in 40k.

And note that while it's not my place to say, you shouldn't really be posting this in YMDA, YMDA is for rules interpretations only. There is a tactics section where this can go.

Good for what they are, but very bland.

Posted By Tacobake on 10/25/2007 1:26 PM


I would bet in 2000 you can't go wrong with a couple of six man squads deepstriking, especially if you already have icons and bikes.

I've managed to motivate my self to go back painting up my chaos army deal - and if I'm still motivated after, to add some extras, demons are 1 thing that interest me. But I'm not seeing the use of 6 demon units.

My logic is currently saying,

They are pure CC
They do not have uber killer abilities like mega Initiative or rending etc.

Therefore they need to beat what they fight in good old take it and dish it back fashion. They do have a good stat line for 13pts. Having done a few calculations  I can see they are great harlie killers point for point, and pretty nifty against 6 man las/plas point for point. As those calculations were based on point for point figures I'm seeing demons as being 10 (= las/plas) or better still 12 (= 6 harlie) strong. At 6 demons they seem to be just weak enough to get flattened with out achieving much.

You'd have to take them into account with the rest of the army, chaos armies lending themselves towards fire fight and close combat. They're 13 points, they're fearless, they have an invulnerable save (even if it's only 5++) and they can assault the turn they deep strike.

So all for 78 points they can:

1) Hold objectives.
2) Add 6 bodies, charging, to any assault that includes other units. When you win combat each and every squad of 6 takes makes its own initiative roll to see if they chase their opponent down.
3) Act as a 6-man tar pit, note that you want to be careful about outnumbering with only a 5+ save.

So by themselves they may not get their points back mono-a-mono, but when you take the rest of the army in account they're at least worth their points. The opponents they are the least useful against are Space Marines and Fearless MEQ that don't run from combat.

So that's why I would take 2x 6 man over 1x 10 man or 1x 12 man, just the added flexibility. But I doubt I would do it in a shooty list. Two squads also means you won't have to wait till turn 4 until they show up.

So bascically I think of them as being a support unit that adds to other squads rather than a squad that tries to do it alone.

This is my first post here, I hope it's in the right spot, it is a rules question, but also helps me determine the value of adding extra lesser daemons to my army.

I realize that lesser daemons are a troops choice that do not take up a list spot, but can they be used to fill the mandatory 2 troops?

Nope. Otherwise you'd see a lot more of them.

the new daemons are useless, i used to play a 50 marine 50 Daemon Word Bearer list, and now i don't use any. I played that list for several years and didn't win every game but always had fun. I tried to use the new daemons, and got so frustrated that i gave up by the end of turn 3. they all came in by then, but proceeded to die from shooting, or did nothing until they died from shooting. don't use the new daemons, just wait till codex daemons/traitors comes out and we get back daemonetts, bloodletter, etc.

"don't use the new daemons, just wait till codex daemons/traitors comes out and we get back daemonetts, bloodletter, etc."

But we still don't know if they can be used in conjunction with a regular CSM army.

I'm going to have to concur.
Regardless of the rest of the army... If I see lesser Daemons... I'm giggling on the inside (of course, I only play CSM & SM right now).
The new LD's just aren't much. They have nothing about them to make them worth the points, IMO.

No flying, no special attacks, no awesome armor saves... just a relatively bland statline (in comparison to the rest of the army).

I admit that I like the new summoning rules, and the lack of instability is encouraging for Codex:"Daemons that I should already be able to take with my stupid CSM army" (I think that's just a working title, though LOL). For 2 more points each, though, you can get CSM with a 3+ armor save, a better stat line, shooting AND assault abilities.


Just my opinion.


Eric

I'm somewhere in-between on the daemons now. I used to bring 18 in a normal 1500 force, bringing mounted daemonettes for 2000 and 2 more squads for 2500 and beyond. Now they're just a tool, rather than a weapon. As has been stated before they add a little extra umph to an already existing assault, and it's nice to send daemonettes in where the enemy has an independent character or veteran sergeant while my other assaulting squads charge against the rest, protecting my expensive troops from those power weapons while also giving the chance to make saves against those same weapons.

And surprisingly their reduction in effectiveness has made them better objective grabbers, as they'll often get ignored in critical turns, after which it will be too late to deal with them, and they can often survive the game over 50% that way.

So I'd say it's worth having "a squad or two", of just a few models in 2000 point games or so. But they can't be depended on to carry the day or even pull you out of a tight spot anymore.

-Spellbound

Spellbound wrote:And surprisingly their reduction in effectiveness has made them better objective grabbers, as they'll often get ignored in critical turns, after which it will be too late to deal with them, and they can often survive the game over 50% that way.

So I'd say it's worth having "a squad or two", of just a few models in 2000 point games or so. But they can't be depended on to carry the day or even pull you out of a tight spot anymore.

-Spellbound

I think you're probably just getting lucky with your opponents.
I haven't seen ANYONE ignore a unit of Daemons, ESPECIALLY if they didn't manage to make it into HtH when they dropped in!


Eric