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But when the product you get looks like it has been thrown against a wall and not what the picture shows (which one am I talking about out of the two? ) you sort of move on of hope that it's a one off and the next will be better; avoiding the product if it shows no signs of improvement the next time.

J.Black wrote:

puma713 wrote: every molecule of themselves

And you accuse me of hyperbole?

Ouze wrote:
Also, that thing about "hating it with every molecule of themselves"? C'mon, get some perspective. It's a retail product, walk away if it affects you that much. Go get a PS3 or watch baseball or go fishing or something. I dislike Finecast too, but more in the way I dislike onions - I don't buy them and don't eat them, but I certainly don't hate them.

Both of you are addressing me and not the point I was making. I didn't say I felt that way. I said some people feel the need to completely hate the release and it affects every other part of their hobby (including leaving GW). I dislike it, so I don't buy it. I don't hate GW or most of their products. I don't agree with some of the things they've been doing recently, but hey, I'm not on the board. If I want something that was woefully transferred to Finecast, then I find it in metal, still sealed.

Anyway, /throws the switch to put the topic back on its rails

puma713 wrote:


Anyway, /throws the switch to put the topic back on its rails

Thank you for getting us back on track. I Don't think any of us "Hate" the hobby. We all "Love" the hobby, which is why we are all so passionate about defending it.

No matter what you choose to call things it all boils down to customer satisfaction and our right to voice our opinions publicly. Name calling aside, the pictures in the thread are worth a thousand words. For a poor quality product like this to reach the general public and continue to be an issue is just shameful.

Statements like this are part of the problem "Our Citadel Finecast models are the latest step in hobby evolution, providing you with incredibly detailed, high-quality resin kits to bolster your army. Painting and modeling Citadel miniatures has never been as rewarding as this." - Games Workshop

Can't we all just get along? Lets stick together and stand united against monopolistic corporations who want to screw us out of our hard earned money!

Individually we are nothing to GW. Just a statistic that falls outside their target market. However if we can educate others on the failings of Finecast, then people will request constant replacements or better yet stop purchasing it all together.

Only when things become unprofitable will GW then make the necessary changes to their production process. We accomplish nothing by fighting amongst ourselves.

MiLkiT wrote:Only when things become unprofitable will GW then make the necessary changes to their production process.

I don't think price increases count as "changes to the production process" and, let's face it, that's the only change we'll see for quite a while.

MiLkiT wrote:

puma713 wrote:


Anyway, /throws the switch to put the topic back on its rails

Thank you for getting us back on track. I Don't think any of us "Hate" the hobby. We all "Love" the hobby, which is why we are all so passionate about defending it.

Amen, that seems to be the general idea children now days believe in. e.g when parents are strict = I HATE THEM AND THEY HATE ME RAAAAAA

Remember some pages back where I said that my replacement Coteaz sucked worse than the original? I just got around to painting the original and found a new problem: a big damned hole in the bottom of the left arm. It won't be filled (it cannot be seen for that matter) and I wouldn't have caught it unless I was painting the model, but I don't recall ever getting a metal figure with bubbles in it.

I'm annoyed again.

So.. is FW doing this out of sympathy or what?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/DECIMATOR-STORM-LASER.html

Doesn't look *too* bad, but you think they'd clean the part up more for a catalogue shot.

I don't think I'd reject it unless the (apparent) warp on the central assembly (main barrel) front plate (just behind the thin outer barrel) is harder to fix than it looks in this photo, and/or the excess resin above the cooling ribs on the central assembly is more than just a piece of flash they've missed. Everything else is knife, file and surfacing putty. Probably 20 minutes work.

Pacific wrote:So.. is FW doing this out of sympathy or what?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/DECIMATOR-STORM-LASER.html

Lol remember when GW launched Finecast and almost all the pictures on their website had obvious flaws and holes. They've fixed it now but boy did I LMAO

The main difference here is that FW probably just made a mistake and put up a bad picture. GW can't actually make well casted models and would just try and sell you some liquid green stuff with your hole ridden mini

n00ber wrote:Remember some pages back where I said that my replacement Coteaz sucked worse than the original? I just got around to painting the original and found a new problem: a big damned hole in the bottom of the left arm. It won't be filled (it cannot be seen for that matter) and I wouldn't have caught it unless I was painting the model, but I don't recall ever getting a metal figure with bubbles in it.

I'm annoyed again.

Wow that's terrible, I hope you asked for another replacement when your 2nd one was worse than the first.

My Lord of Change was brittle and all kinds of fethed up. Getting skinny characters with wings is not good when it's finecast...

So, just an update. Got replacement number 4 as did my friend with his two. ALL the same problems as the first - bubbles at the end of the crossbar and underneath it, bubbles on the cabling at the groin and underarm, poor backpacks and poor heads.

BOTH phone calls to them went exactly the same.

First - the bubbles on the crossbar. They tried stating that this is a known defect.

Then why the feth are you selling it? It doesn't state it's a known defect on the packaging. Or in the White Dwarf issues. Nor did it state this on the website anywhere. Known defect is not acceptable. Pushing Liquid Greenstuff on me is NOT acceptable.

Then then tried to state this was hand inspected and they could see none of the problems - Bear in mind this is after 6 emails between us and about 30 photographs, all circling the same areas.

You would have thought they would have picked the miniatures up and looked at the photographs, then checked those areas from the photographs to make sure.

Suffice to say we're sending them back and putting in a formal letter of complaint detailing the issues. This isn't even funny.

I paid £20 for a miniature. I'm not accepting 'known defects' as an excuse. If it's a known defect you put this crap up on your website, in your magazine or on the packaging of the product.

Liquid Greenstuff is not an excuse. I paid £20 for a miniature. Not £22.30. I expect some cleanup. I expect small bubbles that will be filled with an undercoat. I expect some filing. But Liquid Greenstuff is a BS excuse. Unless you're throwing that in free with sufficient training in sculpting not to balls the miniature up for the sake of repairs I'm not accepting it.

DarkStarSabre wrote:So, just an update. Got replacement number 4 as did my friend with his two. ALL the same problems as the first - bubbles at the end of the crossbar and underneath it, bubbles on the cabling at the groin and underarm, poor backpacks and poor heads.

BOTH phone calls to them went exactly the same.

First - the bubbles on the crossbar. They tried stating that this is a known defect.

Then why the feth are you selling it? It doesn't state it's a known defect on the packaging. Or in the White Dwarf issues. Nor did it state this on the website anywhere. Known defect is not acceptable. Pushing Liquid Greenstuff on me is NOT acceptable.

Then then tried to state this was hand inspected and they could see none of the problems - Bear in mind this is after 6 emails between us and about 30 photographs, all circling the same areas.

You would have thought they would have picked the miniatures up and looked at the photographs, then checked those areas from the photographs to make sure.

Suffice to say we're sending them back and putting in a formal letter of complaint detailing the issues. This isn't even funny.

I paid £20 for a miniature. I'm not accepting 'known defects' as an excuse. If it's a known defect you put this crap up on your website, in your magazine or on the packaging of the product.

Liquid Greenstuff is not an excuse. I paid £20 for a miniature. Not £22.30. I expect some cleanup. I expect small bubbles that will be filled with an undercoat. I expect some filing. But Liquid Greenstuff is a BS excuse. Unless you're throwing that in free with sufficient training in sculpting not to balls the miniature up for the sake of repairs I'm not accepting it.

Wow. They are now stating that defects are known so should be acceptable? Utter rubbish. Any chance you could share that email with the public? The first time they tell me to accept a defect I would be immediately do a chargeback on my credit card and stop buying any more of their cruddy product.

I was considering an Empire army. Then I saw that there's way to much finecast in that line. There goes that hot idea,

RIP GW Customer Service. You had a pretty good run.

DarkStarSabre wrote:So, just an update. Got replacement number 4 as did my friend with his two. ALL the same problems as the first - bubbles at the end of the crossbar and underneath it, bubbles on the cabling at the groin and underarm, poor backpacks and poor heads.

BOTH phone calls to them went exactly the same.

First - the bubbles on the crossbar. They tried stating that this is a known defect.

Then why the feth are you selling it? It doesn't state it's a known defect on the packaging. Or in the White Dwarf issues. Nor did it state this on the website anywhere. Known defect is not acceptable. Pushing Liquid Greenstuff on me is NOT acceptable.

Then then tried to state this was hand inspected and they could see none of the problems - Bear in mind this is after 6 emails between us and about 30 photographs, all circling the same areas.

You would have thought they would have picked the miniatures up and looked at the photographs, then checked those areas from the photographs to make sure.

Suffice to say we're sending them back and putting in a formal letter of complaint detailing the issues. This isn't even funny.

I paid £20 for a miniature. I'm not accepting 'known defects' as an excuse. If it's a known defect you put this crap up on your website, in your magazine or on the packaging of the product.

Liquid Greenstuff is not an excuse. I paid £20 for a miniature. Not £22.30. I expect some cleanup. I expect small bubbles that will be filled with an undercoat. I expect some filing. But Liquid Greenstuff is a BS excuse. Unless you're throwing that in free with sufficient training in sculpting not to balls the miniature up for the sake of repairs I'm not accepting it.

Gonna have a hard time believing this until we have definitive proof.

Emerett wrote:

DarkStarSabre wrote:So, just an update. Got replacement number 4 as did my friend with his two. ALL the same problems as the first - bubbles at the end of the crossbar and underneath it, bubbles on the cabling at the groin and underarm, poor backpacks and poor heads.

BOTH phone calls to them went exactly the same.

First - the bubbles on the crossbar. They tried stating that this is a known defect.

Then why the feth are you selling it? It doesn't state it's a known defect on the packaging. Or in the White Dwarf issues. Nor did it state this on the website anywhere. Known defect is not acceptable. Pushing Liquid Greenstuff on me is NOT acceptable.

Then then tried to state this was hand inspected and they could see none of the problems - Bear in mind this is after 6 emails between us and about 30 photographs, all circling the same areas.

You would have thought they would have picked the miniatures up and looked at the photographs, then checked those areas from the photographs to make sure.

Suffice to say we're sending them back and putting in a formal letter of complaint detailing the issues. This isn't even funny.

I paid £20 for a miniature. I'm not accepting 'known defects' as an excuse. If it's a known defect you put this crap up on your website, in your magazine or on the packaging of the product.

Liquid Greenstuff is not an excuse. I paid £20 for a miniature. Not £22.30. I expect some cleanup. I expect small bubbles that will be filled with an undercoat. I expect some filing. But Liquid Greenstuff is a BS excuse. Unless you're throwing that in free with sufficient training in sculpting not to balls the miniature up for the sake of repairs I'm not accepting it.

Gonna have a hard time believing this until we have definitive proof.

Really? DarkStar seems like a pretty honorable fellow. I am inclined to take his word. I just asked him to share so it goes on public record.

I agree, but I am worried about bias on his part.

I know I have written up articles when I was upset, had another person read them and they pointed out how biased I was on my view. Even though I was mostly correct, the wordage and syntax made it sound like it was much worse.

Emerett wrote:I agree, but I am worried about bias on his part.

I know I have written up articles when I was upset, had another person read them and they pointed out how biased I was on my view. Even though I was mostly correct, the wordage and syntax made it sound like it was much worse.

A fair point.

What if, I love how the model looks, I love how the model's rule works in my army list.
But the only issue is the failcrap is giving so much problems when if its metal it wouldn't present the same issue?

You cant deny the inconvenience is there?

That's my situation exactly. Luckily, my new Eldar army is supposed to be pretty savage for it's fluff, so for my Swooping Hawks, instead of paying 36 bucks for 6 Finecast figures that I'll very, very likely have to fix a bunch of flaws on, I bought the plastic DE Scourges and are using them as a "counts as".

I also like how GW dropped their model purchasing variety when they went over to Finecast, as well. If I want any kind of Exarch for my Eldar army, I have to go on ebay and get them, because I'm damn certain that I won;t be buying an entire $36 boxed set for one figure that I used to be able to get for $10 separately before (and not to mention it was in a medium (metal) that I liked more than FC).

Same goes for a box of Sternguard, or any other models you used to be able to buy separately (usually in a two-pack). If you want any more models in a particular squad than a single box gives you requires that you buy a whole other box. Before, you just bought the ones you want.

I feel quite lucky after reading this thread that my first FC purchase - a box of wood elf tree kin - seem to be fine. I've yet to paint them, but did inspect them pretty closely when assembling and couldn't see anything wrong. Of course, they do have the blessing / curse of literally no flat surfaces, so bubbles etc. don't stand out so much

Ben

DarkStarSabre isn't the only one who's had the "It's a known issue" line given to him, if truth be told.

When I had ordered a Vlad von Carstein over last summer, the first one I got had the outstretched hand just plain...not there. It was missing.
The replacement they sent me was almost perfect, with the only issue being a problem with the sword hand. That intricate basket hilt on the model? In some cases the basket hilt is not properly filling in and ruining the detail on the rest of the hand.

When I called them to talk about a replacement, the CSR was very friendly and mentioned that the majority of issues they were having were related to that--as he put it "damn basket hilt hand". He said they'd sent another Finecast one out or he said he could just send out one of the pewter ones they still had in stock. Asked him which one he'd do at that point in time--and he said the "guaranteed thing" was the metal one, so he'd just send that out.

That'd be a cool thing to ask customer service with the models that are re-casts.

"My Finecast model sucks wind, do you guys have any remaining stock of the metal figures available as a replacement?"

inquisitorlewis wrote:

DarkStarSabre wrote:So, just an update. Got replacement number 4 as did my friend with his two. ALL the same problems as the first - bubbles at the end of the crossbar and underneath it, bubbles on the cabling at the groin and underarm, poor backpacks and poor heads.

BOTH phone calls to them went exactly the same.

First - the bubbles on the crossbar. They tried stating that this is a known defect.

Then why the feth are you selling it? It doesn't state it's a known defect on the packaging. Or in the White Dwarf issues. Nor did it state this on the website anywhere. Known defect is not acceptable. Pushing Liquid Greenstuff on me is NOT acceptable.

Then then tried to state this was hand inspected and they could see none of the problems - Bear in mind this is after 6 emails between us and about 30 photographs, all circling the same areas.

You would have thought they would have picked the miniatures up and looked at the photographs, then checked those areas from the photographs to make sure.

Suffice to say we're sending them back and putting in a formal letter of complaint detailing the issues. This isn't even funny.

I paid £20 for a miniature. I'm not accepting 'known defects' as an excuse. If it's a known defect you put this crap up on your website, in your magazine or on the packaging of the product.

Liquid Greenstuff is not an excuse. I paid £20 for a miniature. Not £22.30. I expect some cleanup. I expect small bubbles that will be filled with an undercoat. I expect some filing. But Liquid Greenstuff is a BS excuse. Unless you're throwing that in free with sufficient training in sculpting not to balls the miniature up for the sake of repairs I'm not accepting it.

Wow. They are now stating that defects are known so should be acceptable? Utter rubbish. Any chance you could share that email with the public? The first time they tell me to accept a defect I would be immediately do a chargeback on my credit card and stop buying any more of their cruddy product.

I was considering an Empire army. Then I saw that there's way to much finecast in that line. There goes that hot idea,

If you want I could name the customer support guy. Same guy for both our issues. This was stated over the phone to both of us at different points. I can also spend a bit hunting down the relevant photographs - the first set is already somewhere in this thread.

The only bias comes from the fact that between the pair of us we've got over 35 years of hobby and we've had acceptable Finecast miniatures before! My Hydras I am happy with. The Lictor I reviewed was satisfactory and I concluded it wasn't an improvement over the previous metal model by any means, but not a complete clusterduck as some were.

In the past 15 to 20 years the amount of defects we've both had with plastic or metal kits have been able to be counted on one hand. In the past month the defects with this single finecast miniature have gone far, far beyond that. We're sending them back with the letter of complaint. And should we get a written response about the 'acceptable' defect then I will gladly share that. I'd be interested to know what other folk in the UK are getting told as well - if you want to contact me guys, I want to find out who you're dealing with.

DarkStarSabre wrote:If you want I could name the customer support guy. Same guy for both our issues. This was stated over the phone to both of us at different points. I can also spend a bit hunting down the relevant photographs - the first set is already somewhere in this thread.

I wouldn't name him as he's probably just a minimum wage hourly worker told spouting what he was told to say (or at worst embellishing it). It's a ridiculous claim either way for a company whose Finecast line is supposed to be the world's best quality minis.

I bought some MK.V Assault Marines today from the FW Open Day. Gotta say, these are the worst models I've ever bought - even my Finecast has been of better quality.

Eiríkr wrote:I bought some MK.V Assault Marines today from the FW Open Day. Gotta say, these are the worst models I've ever bought - even my Finecast has been of better quality.

Get the new amazing, MK.V Assault Marines, "With authentic battle damage!"

Give FW a call tomorrow, Eirkir - they'll replace 'em.

I'm a little surprised some of those defects weren't obvious when you got them, though.

As an aside, I picked up Arjac Rockfist whist at Warhammer World - haven't taken him from the blister yet, but when I do I'll post pics of the quality either way.

Dysartes wrote:Give FW a call tomorrow, Eirkir - they'll replace 'em.

I'm a little surprised some of those defects weren't obvious when you got them, though.

As an aside, I picked up Arjac Rockfist whist at Warhammer World - haven't taken him from the blister yet, but when I do I'll post pics of the quality either way.

Will do!

I picked them up from the GW store within WW, it's not the best of lit places. Checked the pieces over in my car within the carpark and found the damage. Given the immense queues and business of today at WW, I couldn't be fethed to wait again. I live local so a phonecall will suffice tomorrow.

Eiríkr wrote:I picked them up from the GW store within WW, it's not the best of lit places. Checked the pieces over in my car within the carpark and found the damage. Given the immense queues and business of today at WW, I couldn't be fethed to wait again. I live local so a phonecall will suffice tomorrow.

Can't argue on the lighting - there was only one decent light i could see, so while I think Arjac is OK, I'm not going to say he's fine until I've looked in proper lighting.

Those legs are borked bad. Definitely a reject, and FW will replace them without complaint. Always worth checking purchase while at WHW, you can sometimes exchange for parts over the counter at the store too. Still, that example slightly takes the wind out of the rest of this post. :-) At least you're local enough to just give WHW a ring and pick bits up.

Edit: For checking models wander over to the painting area next to the shop - they've got good lights and even if they're all being used the people there will happily let you check a piece over.

I got myself an Elspeth on Carmine Dragon. Utterly flawless - not one bubble (even pinprick!) on the whole damn thing. The Enforcer is nice too. Resin can work beautifully is the point I'm making, but it's gotta be done right.

I picked up the Masterclass Volume 2 (which uses the old paints), arcane Frogs, CD Daemonsmiths and the Death Korps Quartermaster.