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I recently got my IG army put together and ready for paint. I have a huge army with all types of tanks and figures. I do a good job of painting tanks, but I don't have the time to paint the figures as well as I would like. I decided to send them to a Painting Studio in UTAH. When I got them back, they look amazing but they cost me a small fortune. I'm now adding to the army, and want to paint the guys myself.

I was told by the owner of this studio that they do dip the figures to get the shading done quickly. He would not tell me anymore then that.

Can someone please help me with dipping and what products to use. I've heard Minwax Polyshade in antique walnut works good on lighter colored figures to create a shading effect.

If someone could be cool enough to give me the scoop on this method, I would totally appreciate it. I've included two pictures of the guys the studio painted. I'm looking to recreate the same effect.

Thanks guys.

I haven't dipped, so I have no help to offer, but I must say that if these guys really did cost you "a small fortune" to get done, then this studio is ripping you off in a big way. What they've done here requires almost no effort. It's shameful.

Duplicate that? Paint in solid colors, and then dip in either Minwax Polyshades Tudor or possibly the new Polyshades "black". Antique Walnut is more of a warm brown than the minis in your pic.

Until you define "small fortune", I'll refrain from saying you were ripped off.

By small fortune, I mean I paid $5.00 per guy to be completely painted except for the bases. I do a bit of work on the bases myself, so I did not want the studio to do it their way. The reason I had them do the work is cause I had no time to paint 120 IG guardsman and ogryns. I paint all my own HQ, Special, Fast Attack troops, just not the mass guardsman. I paid $485.00 for the whole army of 120 guardsman and 20 Ogryn to be painted as seen here. I had a bit of shipping added on top of that so it was a grand total of $550.00. The cool thing for me is that they did it in lest then 10 days. I just could not of done that with the time I have available.

It seems you spotted this system just by the pics. Could you post a step by step way of getting the result so I can try it tomorrow. That would be extremely appreciated. Thanks ahead.

http://www.dysartes.com/model/painting/Dipping1.php

Link above.

Some things I learned.

1. make sure you have a super clean storage place to put the dipped miniatures when your done dipping. The varnish will attract dust, animal hair, sawdust, lint, & any other undesirable substance and it will be nearly impossible to get off.

2. shaking the "dip" off of dozens of models can really wear out your elbow. I've designed a proto-type
you can use (simply mail me $4.99 USD and we'll call it even) to save time and your elbow. the faster you spin the drill the more "dip" flies off. Slow spin for tyranids, high speed for humies. I put the drill inside a five gallon bucket and the varnish spins off and sticks to the sides, no mess.

3. Have a lot of cheap brushes or paper towels to swab the excess dip off of areas you don't want it (on the blades of power weapons, faces, shoulder pads, etc)

4.make sure to seal up the can of minwax with a hammer. One can should last you a lifetime.

5. make sure parts are glued on securely. Nothing feels so bad when your mini's arm goes flying across the room and lands in a pile of sawdust . . .

6. Have some rubber gloves, the varnish doesn't come off your fingers too easy.

Hope this helps.

Made my tyranid army look really nice and very easy to paint.

Posted some of my "dipped" models on my blog http://300revisited.blogspot.com/


Interrogator-Chaplain Severus

I'm going to go ahead and guess that the "company in Utah" was Bluetable Painting. If it was, then it's kind of funny because they have reps on theses boards that furiously deny that they dip their miniatures.

Anyway, if they refuse to divulge their "secret techniques" you could always try experimenting with different techniques. There's the "Magic Wash" (a mix of Future Floor Wax and black ink), the MinWax Method, and about a dozen different kinds of Vallejo inks you could use. Just make sure to basecoat in much lighter tones than you plan to use.

Hey, let's not be too free with those guesses. I don't know how many services operate out of Utah, but if it is the case that Bluetable consistently denies dipping, it would probably be good to base any new statements on something more solid than that.

to answer your question, the dip is a easy method for painting figures fairly fast and it produces a good appearance and varnishes the figure at the same time.
you need minwax polyshades tudor satin finish. 8oz is enough to finish an entire army. for figures like the one pictured above painting them takes about 20 minutes from start to finish.
i play hive fleet kracken so to begin with i prime the figures white, and then overcoat them with bleached bone spraypaint. once the whole mess is dried i do all of the plates and exposed chiten in strait blood red, teeth are skull white, and the eyes are yellow. for added detail on some of the larger bugs like the tyrant and the fex i take chestnut ink and a very fine brush and i make thin leangthwise lines on the plates to simulate striation in the chiten, fibers reinforcing the armor and the like.
then once its all dried i take it outside to avoid nasty vapor and using a disposable craft brush with fairly good quality soft bristle i paint the minwax over the entire model. work fast and dont apply to much to areas with big flat areas or the dip will gather and make blobs and drips. dont brush to much on one spot on the mini or i have found that repeated strokes and the chemical action of the dip can remove layers of the paint underneath.
if you do a whole batch of models try to spend less than a minute on each one, spreading the dip over them. brush more on areas where you want more shading. at first you will think... oh my god... ive ruined it. but in five minutes or so the dip will have gathered in the recessed areas enough to provide quite a nice level of shading. if you keep a pot of mineral spirits near by you can use a brush dipped in mineral spirits to spread out unfortunate drips that form in unwanted places like on the tip of claws and over eyes etc., as long as you get to them within about five minutes.
this is a great way to paint a lot of minis fast. it works well with figures that are meant to have a little shine to them like nids and plague marines etc because they should look a little slimy etc. use lighter colors than the ones you want the finished product to have because the dip tones things down a bit. practice on spare bits and look around the net. you will find whole sites devoted to this tech. have fun.

diablobats wrote:
It seems you spotted this system just by the pics. Could you post a step by step way of getting the result so I can try it tomorrow. That would be extremely appreciated. Thanks ahead.

Everyone else has pretty much described out the system. I'd say for your stuff, use a mid-light gray for the bulk of the uniform and armor plates. Looks like a slightly darker gray (or gray green?) for the chestplate and guns. The straps and pouches look like a drab olive of some kind, and the flesh... well... fleshy color. Dab a few blobs of black and mid-brown on the pants and smock for your "camo". After that, dip away.

And $550 shipped for 120 guard and 20 Ogryns painted to this level doesn't sound like a rip-off at all to me. That's about $3 a fig for the infantry ($360), and $5 each for the Ogryns($100), plus shipping... not a bad deal, all things considered.

dumbuket wrote:I'm going to go ahead and guess that the "company in Utah" was Bluetable Painting. If it was, then it's kind of funny because they have reps on theses boards that furiously deny that they dip their miniatures.

Agree completely. A local rep in the STL area refused to show me examples of their work when I was deciding if I wanted to do business with them because "I already had my mind made up" in reference to thinking the figures looked dipped.

I though it was pretty easy to tell it was dipped just by the way the shading color forms in small areas. Also, I sent a text model I painted to them to make a copy of and it was completely different. Mine was painted by hand with dry brushing and various other paint brush styles. Theirs came back the way you see them in the pictures. Also, there is no logical way a company would make money if they did not come up with a fast way to paint models. Dipping is the only way to really paint armies quickly with good results. Can you imagine painting 120 IG troopers in less then 10 days shipped. When I heard the turnaround time, I was 100% sold. I had my guys back on the table top 2 Sundays after sending them out. I just wish they would be forward about their system so I could match my army up. The way it stands now I need to send more guys to them, or figure this thing out. I'm trying this system tomorrow after work, so I'll post some results for everyone to see. Great info from everyone so far. The close up of the clip is a great idea. Thanks.

ChaplainSeverus wrote:http://www.dysartes.com/model/painting/Dipping1.php



Posted some of my "dipped" models on my blog http://300revisited.blogspot.com/


Interrogator-Chaplain Severus

So are you a fictional chaplain or a real teacher/chaplain?

Those prices are far from a rip-off. Even dipping, they must be moving fast to make a profit with the time it would take to get clean base colors on those suckers, dip them, and pack and ship. Did they do assembly on those puppies too?

As for the technique, Blue Ta... er, whoever that is probably can say they don't "dip" by being semantic about things. They probably have their own formula, or consider "dipping" to be some single technique to which theirs "merely bears resemblance". Those are word games.

That's dip. No two ways about it. And it looks great. That company should display the cajones to say publicly that yes, they do dip- and that's why they're inexpensive and their work looks good for cheap.

Nice scheme, btw. Where ya gonna be playing that horde?

The thing is, I love their work. They did a great job on my hole army. I would let them paint all my figs, but I still love the modeling side of the hobby. Its just that I didn't want to paint 120 of the same old guardsman. That boring work is just not my bag of tea. When I asked them for their system I was just trying to do some of my one off guys and leaders in the same system to match them up. I have a 20 man last chancers platoon that would look great fighting along side with these guys. I totally recommend them to anyone looking to get armies painted great in a short amount of time. I did send all the troops put together, and they were instructed to leave the bases unfinished. Over all I give them a 9 out of 10 for the whole experience.

I live in Gilbert Az, so any of the local stores are normal gaming spots. I have a huge layout at my house for close friends after store hours. One of these days I'll get around to taking a picture of the whole army. I have never counted all my point together, but it has to be over 10,000 easy.

malfred wrote:So are you a fictional chaplain or a real teacher/chaplain?

fictional interrogator-chaplain & real teacher

Interrogator-Chaplain Severus

Apologies, ICRT. I just read about the student project on the
blog and was fascinated you were going to run a game with
the kids.

OP: Those minis look like they were worth the price. If you
take your time and can make your HQ options stand out,
then it might be good that they don't quite match up.

I don't think they used varnish. I think they used a black ink, like Didi's Magic ink perhaps. I say that because the bases look exactly like the bases from my heavily inked mini's, like my Terminators. I don't know if varnish makes a similar thin puddle like that, but I know inking does.
Either way they look pretty cool, and wouldn't be tough to do yourself other than all the base painting.

I would say you can achieve the same result as dipping by brushing a mix of 1:1 ardcoat and citadel ink.. choose your colors or even be selective for each part of the model.

brush it on and let dry.. then hit it with the spray matt varnish. not quite as quick as dipping but ardcoat is less hassle to deal with and you get good results.

NaZ

Another method is not dipping but similar. Take future floor finish. Add a drop of the type of inking you want done to 20 - 25 drops of FFF. Use a cheap brush and bursh on like inking. Has a similar effect but you can do different colors and shades of inking.

jfrazell wrote:Another method is not dipping but similar. Take future floor finish. Add a drop of the type of inking you want done to 20 - 25 drops of FFF. Use a cheap brush and bursh on like inking. Has a similar effect but you can do different colors and shades of inking.

I love using this affect to shine up metallics and things that look metalic. I find it not so good with effects you want to look matte. however, you can always go back over it with a matte brush on or other similar additive.

So, do you have to mix colors into the Minwax?

No to take this too far OT- but from my experience at the FLGS (in Utah, and a town over from Blue Table) everyone who has used Blue Table has been disappointed. Yeah they use dip, and it's obvious. I suppose you can say you don't dip because you apply the same product by brush- but it gets the same results. I have no problem with dipping, but I wouldn't pay their prices for it.

Back on topic- You've probably seen this, but it is a good article
http://www.drunkdwarves.com/pages/artttgttcdipping.html

two_heads_talking wrote:

jfrazell wrote:Another method is not dipping but similar. Take future floor finish. Add a drop of the type of inking you want done to 20 - 25 drops of FFF. Use a cheap brush and bursh on like inking. Has a similar effect but you can do different colors and shades of inking.

I love using this affect to shine up metallics and things that look metalic. I find it not so good with effects you want to look matte. however, you can always go back over it with a matte brush on or other similar additive.

True that. One can remedy with a quick seal on the entire list with Krylon matte finish in about 8 minutes. I like the shiny look myself but I'm twisted that way.

There are 2 painting services in Utah that I know of.
Blue Table & Brand X. Brand X are painters who left Blue Table 7 started their own company. They use the Blue Table method and, i think, standard methods, as well.
If it was Blue Table, the owner never told you they were dipped. Shawn would have never said that.
While the end result is similar to dipping, Blue Table's technique is far less ham fisted.

Their technique is no secret.

They base coat the mini. From there, they do or do not highlight, depending on what you paid for.
Then, they paint on what they refer to as a glaze.
That's the secret part... What is in the glaze.
Shawn has openly said before that it is not a simple dipping solution, but a mixture of ingredients.

The "glaze" is painted on in a controlled fashion and, in cases where different color glazes are used, they are sometimes pushed together, so as to blend in where they meet.
I've received this info directly from Shawn, himself.
I'm the "St. Louis rep" that White Dragon referred to.
While I wasn't really working for them directly, I was posting their internet stuff in a work/trade agreement.

As for refusing to meet to show you the models, WD... As I recall it, you weren't looking to hire them, you had isues with their quality and/or appearance and wanted to see them in person to be proven wrong about something. Whether they were dipped or, maybe, LOOKED dipped, as I recall?
If you wanted a mini to judge the quality for hiring purposes, I'd have hooked you up directly with Shawn who would have (at that time), probably, assembled and painted something out of their bits to send to you as an example, free of charge. He and I actually threw that around as a possible marketing tool... him painting up a bunch of plastics & sending one out to anyone who requested a sample. It never actually panned out at that time, however.

No arguing/hard feelings intended there, just some more facts & info on that exchange.


Eric

I didn't mean to start anything MM- and appreciate your info. From what I know BrandX does not use the Blue Table "glaze" method and stick to "standard" painting methods only. I was told by a client/friend of the Brand X team that the glaze was the reason for the split. This is again from a friend/client and not from them directly. All the minis he had painted by Brand X did not have the glaze/dip look that his Blue Table minis have.

I will say, Blue Table's main strength seems to be their speed. They get armies and squads done extremely quickly. If you like their style then I think as a service they are definitely quick and reliable.

As for the op, I think very similar results could be had by either dipping (with a black not brown tinted wax) or brushing on a floor finish/ink mix.

theHandofGork wrote:I didn't mean to start anything MM- and appreciate your info. From what I know BrandX does not use the Blue Table "glaze" method and stick to "standard" painting methods only. I was told by a client/friend of the Brand X team that the glaze was the reason for the split. This is again from a friend/client and not from them directly. All the minis he had painted by Brand X did not have the glaze/dip look that his Blue Table minis have.

I will say, Blue Table's main strength seems to be their speed. They get armies and squads done extremely quickly. If you like their style then I think as a service they are definitely quick and reliable.

As for the op, I think very similar results could be had by either dipping (with a black not brown tinted wax) or brushing on a floor finish/ink mix.

Oh. I don't think you started anything. I didn't take anything negatively. I was, literally, just giving information.

BXP may not use it much, but I know they're willing to... or used to be, anyway... Their first post on bartertown stated, specifically, that they used to be BTP painters & could replicate that look/style.

I can't really speak on the split (and it wouldn't be appropriate in this thread, if I could, LOL), but they do seem to be good guys. Despite a... less than friendly (so it seems) split, Shawn at BTP STILL has respect for them. That says a lot for both, IMO.

I do agree that, for the cost and turn around, BTP's minis are REALLY worth the money.
I agree, as well, that a similar look can be achieved with dipping.


Eric

MM,

I asked to see the figures, you refused to meet with me and show them to me. What I wanted to view them for was irrelevant if you were "pimping" them so to speak.

Whether or not I was going to hire BTP was never directly discussed because I asked to see the mini's first. The pictures they posted on Dakka at the time were not very clear and you offered to show me some close ups, then re-negged.

If you really were trying to market or advertise for BTP, you should have been more than happy to make a believer out of me, but instead you chose to not show me anything.

Having since seen BTP results, I can say that they do in fact look alright in person, (No thanks to you) and wouldn't have a problem at all with hiring BTP out to do work for me in the future.

I can't say the same about you, MM, and I hope that BTP doesn't keep you in their employ, or however the arrangement works out. I'd certainly rather not have you marketing product for me.

In other news: my last trip to Home Depot saw the discovery of Minwax Polyshades in Black, which must be relatively new. That might be your best bet, as those minis pictured above look to be sporting a black glaze and not a warmer brown..

Teek, thank you for getting back on track. It seems that my questions turned into a personal battle between former enemies. Since first posting, I picked up all the needed supplies. I have an Apoc tournament tomorrow, but should try this system out by Sunday night. I'll post the results to see how they compare. That should solve this problem once and for all.

Thanks to everyone that has posted, but please don't use other peoples topics to fight over past problems. The studio I used were very nice people and I was very satisfied with the end product. I just want to do a few onesy twosy figures here and there that match their work.

Back on track,

Teek, black stain would be awesome, except you'd have to paint the basecoat on with very bright colors, or find a way to thin down the black consistantly. You don't want to end up with black goop figures for example.