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One should always pay where you play, assuming you play in a store, to some extent.

GW seem to have been systematically phasing in-store gaming out, at least in some areas, which renders your question moot.

One could also ask
"Would you feel awkward turning up to a GW store with a large number of FW models?"

Because unless you specifically ordered them through the store and paid over the counter, they're about as relevant a sale to the Manager as any other model that you didn't buy in store.

 kerikhaos wrote:
The question is would you continue buying the GW products but from different retailers if they were cheaper? Obviously having the choice of course.

Would this put a weight of guilt on your shoulders if you were a continuous open tournament player at the local GW (having turning up with Loads of brand new gear) and the local GW management thinking "where did this dude buy all this lot from? I'm sure it wasn't here". Would you feel embarrassed to turn up with the new gear or would you kiss your teeth and keep confident that your buying at a cheaper rate makes you smarter than the average GW collector?

I quests e question is would you feel embarrassed to show up with stuff you bought from elsewhere or just turn up confident as always without giving a second thought?

The question I think will test someone's GW loyalty?...

That is not GW loyalty - that is loyalty to a store.

Here is another question - would you get something cheaper at the same retailer if you could use it for a GW game? If you could buy a 'counts as' space marine that you made by adding a jump pack to a paladin by Reaper Miniatures?

Howzabout a completely different game? So neither the miniatures nor the game ever came close to GW?

Because those are the real questions - and the answer for an awful lot of folks is 'Yep!'

It sure as heck is for me.

Artificially narrowing the competition does not make GW more appealing.

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 kerikhaos wrote:
The question is would you continue buying the GW products but from different retailers if they were cheaper? Obviously having the choice of course.

Would this put a weight of guilt on your shoulders if you were a continuous open tournament player at the local GW (having turning up with Loads of brand new gear) and the local GW management thinking "where did this dude buy all this lot from? I'm sure it wasn't here". Would you feel embarrassed to turn up with the new gear or would you kiss your teeth and keep confident that your buying at a cheaper rate makes you smarter than the average GW collector?

I quests e question is would you feel embarrassed to show up with stuff you bought from elsewhere or just turn up confident as always without giving a second thought?

The question I think will test someone's GW loyalty?...

That is not GW loyalty - that is loyalty to a store.

Here is another question - would you get something cheaper at the same retailer if you could use it for a GW game? If you could buy a 'counts as' space marine that you made by adding a jump pack to a paladin by Reaper Miniatures?

Howzabout a completely different game? So neither the miniatures nor the game ever came close to GW?

Because those are the real questions - and the answer for an awful lot of folks is 'Yep!'

It sure as heck is for me.

Artificially narrowing the competition does not make GW more appealing.

The Auld Grump

Totally relevant reply and I agree fully but the fact that some people (possibly like myself) have OCD toward original GW products and wouldn't settle for a custom build nor an alternative purchase. I'm not saying it's wrong I'm saying that I'm sure some people wouldn't be comfortable with or most probably cursed to always buy the GW product.

We support GW like any other maniac supporting their favourite football team. The question is would some of these maniacs feel bad buying cheaper the same thing and turning up to their local GW saying "what's up lads check what I got"

Saying that dark sphere yesterday had some massive event going on there was loads of people in there ready to play a tournament or something

In the current Mordheim and Necromunda games fewer than half of the figures on the table are GW.

For irony, more than half of the figures on the table for the Mantic Kings of War games are GW! (Folks ditching the latest edition of WHFB for a better games system. Many of the non-GW figures were used in the previous edition of WHFB....)

I do not think that anybody in my group gives a skaven's arse if a figure is GW or not.

The Auld Grump

*Edit* To be honest, I don't think any of us would play with somebody that did voice an opinion of 'GW Figures only!' We would give him the boot without hesitation.

*EDIT 2* As long as it is readily apparent what figure is carrying what weapon and wearing what armor....

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
In the current Mordheim and Necromunda games fewer than half of the figures on the table are GW.

For irony, more than half of the figures on the table for the Mantic Kings of War games are GW! (Folks ditching the latest edition of WHFB for a better games system. Many of the non-GW figures were used in the previous edition of WHFB....)

I do not think that anybody in my group gives a skaven's arse if a figure is GW or not.

The Auld Grump

*Edit* To be honest, I don't think any of us would play with somebody that did voice an opinion of 'GW Figures only!' We would give him the boot without hesitation.

*EDIT 2* As long as it is readily apparent what figure is carrying what weapon and wearing what armor....

Of course nor would I complain or be bothered by anyone using / collecting / fielding a non GW product but it's that personal focus I'm talking about to a collector and not a gamer. That's the difference. I think a collector is a different breed of fish than that of a gamer. A gamer is much more flexible because he's in it to play the game and enjoy the thrill of competition. A collector doesn't care about the game and just want the focus of pure perfection - he will always get ripped off in the process of purchases but with the help of recession people find the cheaper resellers of GW. Like I do in fact

 kerikhaos wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
In the current Mordheim and Necromunda games fewer than half of the figures on the table are GW.

For irony, more than half of the figures on the table for the Mantic Kings of War games are GW! (Folks ditching the latest edition of WHFB for a better games system. Many of the non-GW figures were used in the previous edition of WHFB....)

I do not think that anybody in my group gives a skaven's arse if a figure is GW or not.

The Auld Grump

*Edit* To be honest, I don't think any of us would play with somebody that did voice an opinion of 'GW Figures only!' We would give him the boot without hesitation.

*EDIT 2* As long as it is readily apparent what figure is carrying what weapon and wearing what armor....

Of course nor would I complain or be bothered by anyone using / collecting / fielding a non GW product but it's that personal focus I'm talking about to a collector and not a gamer. That's the difference. I think a collector is a different breed of fish than that of a gamer. A gamer is much more flexible because he's in it to play the game and enjoy the thrill of competition. A collector doesn't care about the game and just want the focus of pure perfection - he will always get ripped off in the process of purchases but with the help of recession people find the cheaper resellers of GW. Like I do in fact

Fair enough - I consider myself a gamer that collects/accumulates/hoards.... (Me precccioussss....)

Most of the players in my group go back a ways - some belong to a group that still plays the old AD&D Battlesystem. (Which, I admit, is a better fantasy wargame than any of the recent WHFB editions....)

It helps that the wargame most played in the group has an official stance of 'we don't care who made the miniatures'. (Kings of War - it is even in their tournament rulebook.) So, orcs are orcs, elves are elves, and dwarfs are dwarfs. Most of the Heroes in the dwarf army(ies) that I share with my girlfriend are by Reaper, while the dwarf units are mostly Mantic, with some Avatars of War thrown in.

We have little brand loyalty.

The Auld Grump

 kerikhaos wrote:
The question is would you continue buying the GW products but from different retailers if they were cheaper? Obviously having the choice of course.

Would this put a weight of guilt on your shoulders if you were a continuous open tournament player at the local GW (having turning up with Loads of brand new gear) and the local GW management thinking "where did this dude buy all this lot from? I'm sure it wasn't here". Would you feel embarrassed to turn up with the new gear or would you kiss your teeth and keep confident that your buying at a cheaper rate makes you smarter than the average GW collector?

I quests e question is would you feel embarrassed to show up with stuff you bought from elsewhere or just turn up confident as always without giving a second thought?

The question I think will test someone's GW loyalty?...

GW show no loyalty to me and if this where any other company they wouldn't care where I bought it as long as I bought their product and not their competitions.
Also my local GWs can't run tourneys due to lack of staff and space.

I see literally no reason to feel bad or embarrassed about buying from somewhere other than GW direct.

 jonolikespie wrote:
GW show no loyalty to me and if this where any other company they wouldn't care where I bought it as long as I bought their product and not their competitions.
Also my local GWs can't run tourneys due to lack of staff and space.

I see literally no reason to feel bad or embarrassed about buying from somewhere other than GW direct.

Quite the opposite of loyalty - GW actively show disdain for the customers as has been shown repeatedly on facebook, in the CHS lawsuit and other places. No wonder players rather than feeling embarrassed like that, feel like they're "sticking it to the man" by not buying from GW direct, GW at all or even legit GW.

Indeed.

As well if we are talking collecting rather than playing I simply wouldn't pay anything GW asked as I don't find any collectable value in mass produced plastics. When I look at collecting value I go for the $100 56 or 75mm resin masterpieces that come direct from the sculptors with signed art cards in limited runs of 200 or so.
GW simply can't offer anything like that on the collectables front.

 Fezman wrote:
Lower.

RRPs are getting so high that even with an LGS discount of 20%, I still balk at paying the prices.

When I got a 50% discount as a manager I STILL balked at some of the prices a little bit. $100 (slashed to $50) is crazy for five horsemen when I can get 14 Carabiniers from Perry Miniatures for about $36 which are just as detailed. A slash in prices would not truly get me interested again, until I saw a concerted effort by GW to change many of their practices and modern fallacies.

I agree it is the over all value for money that GW plc offer, that has to improve radically to win customers back.

Not just price cuts.
The quality of the rules has to improve dramatically.In the way they are written, (proper editing and proof reading.)
In the content , more complex game play options ,less complication in the rules as written.

I guess there is much to repair before things get better. Since too many greedy directors sit on the top subject of profits I don't think things will change unless there is a dramatic decline in everything GW.

Only then since I don't believe the company wants to sink completely will we see new approaches to the business ethic of GW

I'm not sure even a "reasonable" price reduction is enough for me anymore. The value just isn't there due to 1. Shockingly bad rules that only get worse and 2. Destruction of the setting - the #1 selling point of 40k. When Murderfang goes into Murderlust and murders things with his Murderclaws next to santa and his wolf-drawn sleigh... that's enough to turn me off the setting for good.

Dare I say it? Would this have happened with Matt Ward around? ; p

 Yonan wrote:
I'm not sure even a "reasonable" price reduction is enough for me anymore. The value just isn't there due to 1. Shockingly bad rules that only get worse and 2. Destruction of the setting - the #1 selling point of 40k. When Murderfang goes into Murderlust and murders things with his Murderclaws next to santa and his wolf-drawn sleigh... that's enough to turn me off the setting for good.

Dare I say it? Would this have happened with Matt Ward around? ; p

Pure awsome sauce. Best reply yet. But don't you want your army to have some op piece just like that?

my question is why do the break the damn game? I mean if it wasn't broke then why try to fix it? It is so far from what I can tell unbalanced, unfair and limits people more and more to do what they could before.

When they write rules don't they acknowledge the effect it has on everyone and everything? I do think that having sooo many SM codex's and constant changes the in game it forces the game to break. So my question is why do they do it? Its as if they want to reduce numbers in the playing area of 40k by putting players off with their broken rules.

In chess one opponent doesn't start off with more powerful pieces than the other and yet the game is always super exiting and well balanced considering both players know what they are doing (as the same in 40k). So why have tier armies develop from bad rules? One year BA are up the chart next they are the lowest in the list?

You cant do this gak to your customers and gamers GW.....

talking of management and all the mcdonalds vs 5 star restaurant comparisons.....its like a 5 star hotel being run by the drivers from YODAL (possibly the crappest delivery company in the WORLD)

sorry I used YODAL because yet again I have had a super BAD EXPERIENCE WITH THEM as another reputable company has decided to use these fools to save on delivery charges

They are selling molded plastic at exorbitant prices.

Though in their favor, to stay open in as few places as they already are, they need to up charge as their clientele is only so deep.

Like the guy that runs our shop said, this isn't magic where they come out with a new set every 3 months. Once you buy a space marine, its a space marine.... the worst you have to do is paint it a different color for a new army.

If the story actually progressed they'd have excuse to sell us new stuff. Oh the Tyranids overran Ultramar and are pushing hard? Here's some mechanicus automatons to add to your armies to help fight them. What's that, the Necrons are waking up? Here's an old eldar necron fighting specialist unit and an Ordo Xenos unit utilising Necron technology. Black Crusade owns Cadia? New line of Cadians with a more "resistance" feel to them.

Bam, new stuff for people to buy.

But really how frequent is that...

They don't do it, but they could and it could be done frequently. An ever changing narrative would provide heaps of fodder for changing the meta and releasing new units without invalidating old ones.

It would cost them for new moulds for the upgrades. They can't do that no way with their mentality of profits ONLY

 Yonan wrote:
If the story actually progressed they'd have excuse to sell us new stuff. Oh the Tyranids overran Ultramar and are pushing hard? Here's some mechanicus automatons to add to your armies to help fight them. What's that, the Necrons are waking up? Here's an old eldar necron fighting specialist unit and an Ordo Xenos unit utilising Necron technology. Black Crusade owns Cadia? New line of Cadians with a more "resistance" feel to them.

Bam, new stuff for people to buy.

Warmachine does it.......and does it well. Your warcaster did some bad ass stuff in the story and got promoted, now they are epic and here's the miniature and rules for it

Really yes prices are a little high, but hey we all still buy it. Its a hobby, hobbies can be expensive. Look at cars as a hobby. I do some autocross racing in the summer. A nice set of coilovers runs you like $1300 or so depending on the ones you want.

It all comes down to if you love the hobby you'll pay the price

40KNobz11 wrote:
Really yes prices are a little high, but hey we all still buy it. Its a hobby, hobbies can be expensive. Look at cars as a hobby. I do some autocross racing in the summer. A nice set of coilovers runs you like $1300 or so depending on the ones you want.

It all comes down to if you love the hobby you'll pay the price

But GW overall costs MORE than other *comparative* hobbies, especially when you're just getting started. Comparing a wargame to cars is a non sequitur..

A lot of us don't still buy it because the price point has gotten too high for the value.

40KNobz11 wrote:
Really yes prices are a little high, but hey we all still buy it... It all comes down to if you love the hobby you'll pay the price

No we don't aaaand no we won't. We have many other options such as third party models or recasters. GW doesn't have the power - if they don't want to play nice a lot of us won't either.

WayneTheGame wrote:

40KNobz11 wrote:
Really yes prices are a little high, but hey we all still buy it. Its a hobby, hobbies can be expensive. Look at cars as a hobby. I do some autocross racing in the summer. A nice set of coilovers runs you like $1300 or so depending on the ones you want.

It all comes down to if you love the hobby you'll pay the price

But GW overall costs MORE than other *comparative* hobbies, especially when you're just getting started. Comparing a wargame to cars is a non sequitur..

A lot of us don't still buy it because the price point has gotten too high for the value.

My other hobby of mining for uranium in my back yard makes GW's prices seem like a pittance.

Am I doing this right?

 Grimtuff wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

40KNobz11 wrote:
Really yes prices are a little high, but hey we all still buy it. Its a hobby, hobbies can be expensive. Look at cars as a hobby. I do some autocross racing in the summer. A nice set of coilovers runs you like $1300 or so depending on the ones you want.

It all comes down to if you love the hobby you'll pay the price

But GW overall costs MORE than other *comparative* hobbies, especially when you're just getting started. Comparing a wargame to cars is a non sequitur..

A lot of us don't still buy it because the price point has gotten too high for the value.

My other hobby of mining for uranium in my back yard makes GW's prices seem like a pittance.

Am I doing this right?

YES! YES! YES!

Indeed, I used to think GW prices were unreasonable, but then I compared it to my other hobby - world domination.

Do you know how many GW models I could buy for the price of even a small Doomsday-weapon?

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed, I used to think GW prices were unreasonable, but then I compared it to my other hobby - world domination.

Do you know how many GW models I could buy for the price of even a small Doomsday-weapon?

Two whole boxes of 5?

WayneTheGame wrote:

40KNobz11 wrote:
Really yes prices are a little high, but hey we all still buy it. Its a hobby, hobbies can be expensive. Look at cars as a hobby. I do some autocross racing in the summer. A nice set of coilovers runs you like $1300 or so depending on the ones you want.

It all comes down to if you love the hobby you'll pay the price

But GW overall costs MORE than other *comparative* hobbies, especially when you're just getting started. Comparing a wargame to cars is a non sequitur..

A lot of us don't still buy it because the price point has gotten too high for the value.

Compared to other companies that do tabletop games yes its a bit more expensive, but the GW models are way nicer than any PP model and most other companies. Yes its a little more expensive to get into but so is a lot of things. If you enjoy playing (I DO) it shouldn't really matter, its just money after all, why not spend it on something you enjoy...... whats the point in having it then? If you have to save up a little to buy some nice stuff its all worth it to me!!


Its totally comparable to cars in the fact that both are hobbies that we do and enjoy. Maybe your other hobby isn't cars, MTG for example gets expensive if you really wanna get into it. So does lots of other things.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed, I used to think GW prices were unreasonable, but then I compared it to my other hobby - world domination.

Do you know how many GW models I could buy for the price of even a small Doomsday-weapon?

Two whole boxes of 5?

In all honesty I think you probably could get some form of WMD for less than the price that the GW website was selling the marine chapter for..