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it's 40 pts previously cause they had to buy 1 shooty weapon anywayz. But they've dropped from decently good in 5-th to really bad in 6 and than never-include in 7.

What honestly gets me the most is how somebody thought making a killakan more expensive then a meganob, or a deffkopta was okay. They both outperform kanz at everything except immunity to small arms. One could say kanz are dual purpose too, not neccasarily useful to go at I2 or 1 with front av11 though. Grenades getting faqd to one per assault might bring a tiny boon to walker spam.

This thread is quite funny. My favorite part of the first post was conveniently forgetting a whole phase of the game, namely "The Psychic Phase." Only 3 armies are worse at that. And who in their right mind thinks that there is ANY so pervasive and ludicrous nerf to ANY ARMY IN 40K AS "Mob Rule?" Un-arguably THE WORST.... but please argue...

10 Boyz in Truk with BP Nob
Truk Pops
5 are wounded in the explosion. 1 saves....
Pinning Test (Leadership)
- If failed attack yourself with Strength HIGHER than your BASE Str (WTF?)
>25% Lost in Phase (Leadership)
- If failed attack yourself with Strength HIGHER than your BASE Str (again...WTF?)

Its like the opposite of killing a pink horror. You kill one boy and the boy next to him kills another for the opponent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rismo... dont get me started on my Kan rant.. ..

Mob rule is ok, it allows you to pass failed ld checks. Also it's appropriate for orks, it fits them completely. It's not a big deal, you should have many expendable MSU of trukk boyz, and lootas, tankbustas, meganobz really don't care about mob rule. Also bikes being T5 e 4+ are not particularly affected. Mob rule hurts only ork boyz, but they're not your most valuable part of the army, so it's fair. About psychic phase i agree, i never take weirdboys, but again i don't think an army made of cavemen should have powerful wizards so it's ok.

Blackie... Blackie... Blackie...

1. Name a rule as crucifying as MobRule?
2. By fluff, Orks are the most powerful psychers in the game.
3. Orks are NOT "cavemen." Theyre fungi-men... that may SOMETIMES dwell in a cave like setting

I wouldn't mind Mob Rule if costs were dropped, as a way of adding a negative rule because you get really cheap stuff.

But it's just a negative added to an army that doesn't really need a negative. It's like WHFB O&G animosity where the goal was to reduce the amount of Animosity in the entire army

They may be the most powerful psykers but they're already using their distortion field just to make all of their stuff work.

 doktor_g wrote:
Name a rule as crucifying as MobRule?

Instinctive behavior.

 doktor_g wrote:
Blackie... Blackie... Blackie...

1. Name a rule as crucifying as MobRule?
2. By fluff, Orks are the most powerful psychers in the game.
3. Orks are NOT "cavemen." Theyre fungi-men... that may SOMETIMES dwell in a cave like setting

Mob rule is not that bad, i usually only have 2 min squads of trukk boyz at 1850 and trukk spam so my typical list is mostly not affected by it. You lose 5-6 boyz a game due to that rule, and running away is certainly worse. Mob rule can be even nice if the opponent has to score psycological warfare and thanks to that rule orks don't fail their morale test. About weirdboys, i always considered orks something like mad max characters even before fury road came out in theatres. Savages with a lot of scratch built vehicles. Wizards don't fit that theme, so i never considered the psychic phase to be crucial in orks games. Anyway the most powerful psykers in 40k background are not among the orks, that's for sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:

 doktor_g wrote:
Name a rule as crucifying as MobRule?

Instinctive behavior.

That is certainly worse than mob rule, if some vital bugs are killed the rest of the army becomes nuts.

 doktor_g wrote:
Only 3 armies are worse at that.

Out of curiosity, who are you listing there?

 Purifier wrote:

 doktor_g wrote:
Only 3 armies are worse at that.

Out of curiosity, who are you listing there?

Dark eldars for sure as they don't have a single psyker in their codex, then tau and probably necrons as you don't see many c'tan in their lists. It's mainly because orks psykers are really cheap and necrons ones are not, but i think they're not worse than orks in the psychic phase. These four armies, including orks, skip the psychic phase almost every game. Any other army has a more effective psychic phase than these ones.

 Blackie wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 doktor_g wrote:
Only 3 armies are worse at that.

Out of curiosity, who are you listing there?

Dark eldars for sure as they don't have a single psyker in their codex, then tau and probably necrons as you don't see many c'tan in their lists. It's mainly because orks psykers are really cheap and necrons ones are not, but i think they're not worse than orks in the psychic phase. These four armies, including orks, skip the psychic phase almost every game. Any other army has a more effective psychic phase than these ones.

Adeptus Mechanicus and Sisters of Battle? Not a psycher between them.

 Blackie wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 doktor_g wrote:
Only 3 armies are worse at that.

Out of curiosity, who are you listing there?

...and probably necrons as you don't see many c'tan in their lists.

Not sure why C'Tans are even relevant to 'Worst Psychic Phase' as they aren't Psykers and aren't in any way a psychic defence mechanism.
Did you mean to mention the terrible Gloom Prism upgrade on Spyders that no one takes because Adamantium Will is laughable at best when most opponents only use Blessings and Conjurations?

 doktor_g wrote:
This thread is quite funny. My favorite part of the first post was conveniently forgetting a whole phase of the game, namely "The Psychic Phase." Only 3 armies are worse at that. And who in their right mind thinks that there is ANY so pervasive and ludicrous nerf to ANY ARMY IN 40K AS "Mob Rule?" Un-arguably THE WORST.... but please argue...

10 Boyz in Truk with BP Nob
Truk Pops
5 are wounded in the explosion. 1 saves....
Pinning Test (Leadership)
- If failed attack yourself with Strength HIGHER than your BASE Str (WTF?)
>25% Lost in Phase (Leadership)
- If failed attack yourself with Strength HIGHER than your BASE Str (again...WTF?)

Its like the opposite of killing a pink horror. You kill one boy and the boy next to him kills another for the opponent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rismo... dont get me started on my Kan rant.. ..

Instinctive behaviour - Pretty sure Nids falling out of Synapse have you beat.

You can build a Tyranids list that doesn't care about it though.

No. Instinctive behavior is NOT worse. Nids dont eat EACHOTHER.

Yes I forgot no psychers for AdMech, Tau, Sororitas, Crons. But all those more than make up for it in other phases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let me also mention we have only one monsterous creature and one gargantuan both are nigh unplayable competitively.

I'll disagree there. I have used the gargantuan squiggoth to some success here and the meta is pretty competitive. I was just messing around but it ended up working since I did better than 1/2 the field. Filled it with burnas and a mek with a kff. It was hilarious against the thunderwolves and wulfen since they didn't want anything to do with it. I also prefer mob rule with large squads out of the ghazzy book since it means you wont fail. Whenever I take a mob rule check it normally ends up doing nothing. Also I think there is a result for instictive behavior where they eat each other.

Eldar are an army built around special abilities.

Orks are an army built around special disabilities.

 doktor_g wrote:
No. Instinctive behavior is NOT worse. Nids dont eat EACHOTHER.

Hormagaunts actually inflict hits on each other, half the time without synapse they will each inflict one hit on their unit. So you lose half the unit for not being in synapse, every other turn.
They also can't do anything else during the turn that happens.
Funny because in the fluff:
"...Hormagaunts have fearsome hunting instincts and require little direction from the Hive
Mind to seek out and slaughter prey. Indeed, once the Tyranid assault begins, they are
mostly left to their own devices..."

Ok... I stand corrected.... /rant

At least, once they're done and painted, that's it. The 120-some boyz, 90-ish gretchen and 30-some nobs took a while to batch paint for a tournament but that's out of the way. Yes, you have to paint new models for any army, but for hordes it can be quite daunting.

Sonic Keyboard wrote:

 doktor_g wrote:
No. Instinctive behavior is NOT worse. Nids dont eat EACHOTHER.

Hormagaunts actually inflict hits on each other, half the time without synapse they will each inflict one hit on their unit. So you lose half the unit for not being in synapse, every other turn.
They also can't do anything else during the turn that happens.
Funny because in the fluff:
"...Hormagaunts have fearsome hunting instincts and require little direction from the Hive
Mind to seek out and slaughter prey. Indeed, once the Tyranid assault begins, they are
mostly left to their own devices..."

Probably forgotten because how many people actually use Hormagaunts?

 VeteranNoob wrote:
At least, once they're done and painted, that's it. The 120-some boyz, 90-ish gretchen and 30-some nobs took a while to batch paint for a tournament but that's out of the way. Yes, you have to paint new models for any army, but for hordes it can be quite daunting.

No kidding. Its why Im so pissed off.

Very impressive!

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Sonic Keyboard wrote:

 doktor_g wrote:
No. Instinctive behavior is NOT worse. Nids dont eat EACHOTHER.

Hormagaunts actually inflict hits on each other, half the time without synapse they will each inflict one hit on their unit. So you lose half the unit for not being in synapse, every other turn.
They also can't do anything else during the turn that happens.
Funny because in the fluff:
"...Hormagaunts have fearsome hunting instincts and require little direction from the Hive
Mind to seek out and slaughter prey. Indeed, once the Tyranid assault begins, they are
mostly left to their own devices..."

Probably forgotten because how many people actually use Hormagaunts?

I've always wished they were beasts.

I just want to know why GW thought they needed to nerf so many things in the codex and make us still pay the 4th edition prices. Remember when furious assault gave +1 init too?

I use termagants, but hormagaunts seem worthless. then again, so are the tyranids as a whole.

the_scotsman wrote:
To see Sisters players getting psyched about the new Celestine and Dark Eldar players speculating about maybe getting Lady Malys back, and then having CSM and SM players complaining that the marines didn't get anything in this release is reasonably frustrating.

Indeed. And yet sadly this is pretty much normal. I had several Space Marine players (of several varieties) delivering personal insults to me in the news section (which the mods thankfully dealt with after a while) because I didn't get as hyped as they felt I should be about getting what turned out to be a single character mini with a couple minions she uses to become more survivable, a bland re-hash of rules, and a meta-detachment that forces me to include non-sisters minis in order to use.

Because, apparently, how dare I find it underwhelming to get a single new character-- however nice the character is-- when I'm still using metal miniatures from 2nd and 3rd edition as the foundation of my entire army, when Marine players of all stripes AND YES THIS INCLUDES CHAOS PLAYERS BEFORE YOU TRY TO PRETEND YOU ARE AN EXCEPTION get new toys all the damn time.

 doktor_g wrote:

 VeteranNoob wrote:
At least, once they're done and painted, that's it. The 120-some boyz, 90-ish gretchen and 30-some nobs took a while to batch paint for a tournament but that's out of the way. Yes, you have to paint new models for any army, but for hordes it can be quite daunting.

No kidding. Its why Im so pissed off.

jealous, but also the song of my people. Of course, yours are red so they go fasta

I salute your green-red tide.