Switch Theme:

T.W.A.R.-Systems (5th edition Tyranids, 1500pts)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






I will frequently meet some very very tough lists, so while this is of course a model driven project, I've got to handle it gaming wise too Can this list cut it in theory?? I'm terribly short on troops, but that isn't really going to change very soon. I've also dropped some "free" killpoint units that would be fun to build later, such as individual raveners...

comments?

T.W.A.R - System "Splinter Cell"

" Splinter" (1#, 227 Pts)
1 TWAR General @ 227 Pts
Adrenal Glands +1 In; Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Flesh Hooks; Implant Attack; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Winged; Scything Talons (x1); Twin-linked Devourer (x1); Synapse Creature; The Horror; Warp Field

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 158 Pts)
1 Hive Tyrant @ 158 Pts
Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Extended Carapace +1 Save; Implant Attack; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Twin-linked Devourer (x2); Synapse Creature; The Horror

"Night-Creeper" (1#, 80 Pts)
1 Hunter-System @ 80 Pts
Feeder Tendrils; Flesh Hooks; Rending Claws; Scything Talons

Elite: Carnifex (1#, 113 Pts)
1 Carnifex @ 113 Pts
Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Twin-linked Devourer (x2)

Elite: Carnifex (1#, 113 Pts)
1 Carnifex @ 113 Pts
Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Twin-linked Devourer (x2)

Troops: Genestealers (6#, 126 Pts)
6 Genestealers @ 126 Pts
Extended Carapace +1 Save; Feeder Tendrils; Rending Claws

Troops: Ai-Tactical Rifle 1 (10#, 60 Pts)
10 Gaunt Brood @ 60 Pts
Fleshborer

Troops: Gaunt Brood (9#, 45 Pts)
9 Gaunt Brood @ 45 Pts
Spinefists

Heavy Support: IAPW-Ai (3#, 135 Pts)
1 comms @ 135 Pts
Toxic Miasma; Synapse Creature; Warp Field
1 psychWAR @ [45] Pts
Toxic Miasma; Psychic Scream; Warp Field
1 psychWAR @ [45] Pts
Toxic Miasma; Psychic Scream; Warp Field

"Rampart" (1#, 218 Pts)
1 Arsenal System @ 218 Pts
Adrenal Glands +1 In; Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Bonded Exoskeleton; Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Extended Carapace +1 Save; Reinforced Chitin; Barbed Strangler; Venom Cannon

Heavy Support: Carnifex (1#, 223 Pts)
1 Carnifex @ 223 Pts
Adrenal Glands +1 In; Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Bonded Exoskeleton; Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Extended Carapace +1 Save; Reinforced Chitin; Spine Banks; Barbed Strangler; Venom Cannon

Total Roster Cost: 1498



“Of the fabulous hydra it is said, cut off one head and two will grow in its place”

- antique proverb

LEGION of PLASTIC blog 
   
Made in us
Lurking Gaunt




I'm guessing the "Night-Creeper" is a Broodlord, in which case, you have to take a retinue.
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






Lictor



“Of the fabulous hydra it is said, cut off one head and two will grow in its place”

- antique proverb

LEGION of PLASTIC blog 
   
Made in us
Wraith





Raleigh, North Carolina

You may want to consider giving your walking tyrant a venom cannon and only one set of Devourers. This gives you a little more light armor, dreadnought, obliterator killing ability as well as a much nicer range of fire so you don't need to spend a turn or two running him. I see you gave him implant attacks, though, so maybe you prefer to run him up quick and get him into combat? The only issue I see with that is having only three attacks, four on a charge. His strength, WS, and number of attacks aren't good enough to get him out of a dense horde of orks or even gaunts. A squad of termies would likely just eat him.

Do you find you get more utility out of the lictor than you would a third elite carnifex? I never have, but that's just me. I love lictors for their fluff and general fun-to-useness, but when it comes to annihilating other armies a dakkafex or stranglerfex (barbed strangler, two scything talons, 113pts) would likely do you much better. You did mention being constrained by model availability, so I guess this might not be an option at all.

You are very light on troop choices, which is very bad in 5th edition two-thirds of the time. you might want to consider toning down the upgrades on your sniperfexes and Tyrants in favor of more gaunts or stealers. Extended carapace on the stealers is really your personal choice. I don't usually take them since I prefer body count over biomorphs and at eight points a model adds up very quickly. Besides, it's relatively easy to get a 4+ cover save against most shooting in 5th edition, it just takes some smart maneuvering. With your gaunts I'd suggest only using one type of gun. I personally feel the fleshborer is a nice upgrade from spinefists for one point: a S4 shot that rerolls wounds, so you're wounding Marines, Orks, even Terminators 75% of the time, unlike a spinefists' 33%. Forcing save rolls is 'Nids kill power armor outside of rending.

I'm assuming you went with the zoanthropes due to model availability? They are not bad models at all, I usually just get more utility from a third fex. They are very resilient as far as holding onto kill points in 5th, though. Why give two of them Psychic Scream? A -2 to leadership generally won't make too many armies fail a save that they weren't already going to fail anyways. Psychic Scream is generally best done as a 5-part harmony, triple Zoeys and double walking Tyrant, or careful maneuvering with a flying tyrant. 18" is a pretty small range, and you don't have a whole lot in the way of close combat users to give the benefit to. You're better off having triple Synapse to move with the extra troops you should be buying, especially now that they can run with your fleeting gaunts. If you really like the Psychic Scream, though, then keep two of them with it like you have, get more Genestealers, and run with their assaults to help force Sweeping Advances.

Why give your Carnifex the +I, +WS, and Spine Banks biomorphs? Spending points? Better spent on more troops. Your gunfexes will very likely never see melee combat unless you purposefully run them into it, which would be silly since it's much better to use the Shooting phase to, well, shoot. The +1 wound, toughness, and save are a tad redundant. Anything shooting at your gun fex will likely be AP2 or better anyways, in which case you'd just take your cover save (3+ if you're lurking, which you should be). I've found the extra wound on them to be very helpful, though, so you should probably keep that. I always enjoy seeing a Carnifex live through the game on his 5th wound. The extra toughness is not a bad choice if you feel you have the points, since it makes S8 weaponry wound on a 3+ instead of 2+.

Overall I'd say you should decide what you want your units to be doing. Sniperfexes should hang back and shoot. It's what they're good at, especially since the strangler no longer misses, just deviates. Close combat upgrades are basically a waste of points for them that could be put to more valuable places, particularly beefing up your troop line. More gaunts, more genestealers.

 
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






Good point on the "role" specific bio-morphing.

The Army concept is a race of Mecha Weapon Systems, and hence I've gone to town with them. I've yet to try them out, but soon will have 1000pts to start play testing things.

For the second tyrant, I considered Venom Cannon, then decided to opt for cheaper, more singleminded unit that will close in with the enemy - as is the plan for the entire army. Devourer things run for the first turn. Implant attack is still there, because I meet so many flying demon princes, and implant attack really scares things like that. Maybe I should consider Psychic Scream for him instead. Getting -3 would really start to hurt.

But I guess the Zoeyes are where more troops could come from. 2 more 9 strong spinefist broods?

The I and Ws updates for the Sniperfexes are there to hit before fists and get less hits back, considering the huge cost of these beasts, it feels like a sound investment. Spine banks is purely modeling - that system has chest cavities open with tiny miniguns inside!



“Of the fabulous hydra it is said, cut off one head and two will grow in its place”

- antique proverb

LEGION of PLASTIC blog 
   
Made in us
Wraith





Raleigh, North Carolina

Mecha Weapon Systems sound pretty cool fluffwise, but computers start getting pretty glitchy when you add way more code than needed for their processes.

If you're taking Implant Attacks namely for Demon Princes, I have a feeling any halfway intelligent player will render them useless. If you're facing Demon Princes, I'd expect them to be Lash Whip princes. He has a 24" range with Lash of Submission, combined with 12" movement phase due to wings. With a 36" potential threat range, he can then place you 2d6 wherever he wants. You have to be 18" or better to him to shoot, much less have a chance at assault. Pushing your Tyrant out of firing range is pretty easy to do, or pulling you into plasma rapid-fire range of his Plague Marines and assault range for the Prince itself is pretty easy. If the rapid-firing plasma doesn't kill your Tyrant, the assault from the Prince will finish it off since it has a higher initiative and ignores armor saves. He gets a 4+ invul save against your assault, so your Tyrant is at a severe disadvantage in every way. The best way to deal with Princes is to overload them with saving throws. They're like killing four Marines, just shoot it over and over, preferably with two Devourer 'Fexes.

As far as your "single minded" intentions, that's what you have your main Tyrant, the flying assault machine, for. Your second Tyrant is for support. People who bring a Devourer Tyrant for a single-minded purpose also give it wings, and that purpose is to harass enemy troop flanks. They don't go after big things like other Monstrous Creatures in assault. Overwhelming things with the 12 shots is what wins against other MCs. The problem with this on the walker is the lack of range combined with lack of mobility. The wings also let it get into assaults with tanks fairly quickly, where having S6 isn't that big a deal since now when you assault a tank, it's always against back armor and you get your 2d6 for Monstrous penetration. But, again, this is for a winged Tyrant, since it relies very heavily on mobility. Run only lets you possibly get into range on the second turn, instead of the third. Afterwards, your opponent will simply move away from your Tyrant, or in the case of the Lash Prince move you wherever he wants you. If they do move away, you're probably going to be wasting shooting phases chasing after them. Worse case scenario, he baits you into chasing him a bit simply to step forward into rapid-fire range. This goes for any army with guns.

Furthermore, any highly mobile army will just walk away from your Tyrant. A Tau Fire Warrior gunline can decimate your Tyrant before it even gets in range, as can any vehicle in the game. Point being, for sacrificing three S5 shots a round, you get double the range, S8 triple shot that can kill off transports and skimmers with relative ease. Play test both ways against suitable opponents, see which you like more. As far as the added point cost, the removal of assault biomorphs from your sniperfexes should pay for it (more on that later). Oh, and unless you're doing Psychic Choir, don't really need to bother with a Psychic power for your walking Tyrant.

ANYHOW, moving on from the Tyrant and on to your Sniperfexes...

The further reason not to mess with the close-combat biomorphs is further understanding of the assault phase, namely how power fists work. They always strike last. It says quite explicitly, always strikes last. It's not "swings at I1," which you'd still be better than with your I2. Yes, this does mean your Fex will hit first. Will it kill the squad that just charged you, thus letting you kill the power fist before it hits your 'Fex? No. Your Carnifex gets two attacks at WS4. Against anything that could possibly want to chase down and assault your 'Fex (Assault Marines, Orks, Genestealers, Bloodletters), you will miss your target 50% of the time (4+ to hit), and fail to wound it one out of six tries. Take note, this is no difference from being at WS3. You still have to roll a 4+ to hit. Whatever you hit will be dead, yes, but you will not kill the powerfist holder, you will kill a random marine/ork.

Even further, though, is the small chance that people will actually assault your Sniperfex. You should have them positioned at range as a distant object. Your Devourer 'Fexes are right in their face, though, giving them eight S6 twin-linked re-roll wounds shots each. Those will be the assault targets long before your Snipers will. The only thing that would chase your Sniper first is perhaps infiltrating Genestealers coming from a flank or from behind and looking for a big target, and your WS/I upgrade won't do a thing but make it an even bigger point flush. The spine banks you can model all you like, there's no rule that says "If you have a custom modeling it must do something!" You can keep your miniguns as you like, it sounds pretty awesome, but don't pay for a useless upgrade.

Long story short, the extra Initiative and WS point will never, ever do anything for your 'fex. Nor will the Spine Banks, for that matter. It just takes up points.

I would not remove your Zoanthrope if you intend to keep Gaunts, you will need them for Synapse, and you will need troops to claim objectives. You cannot win two of the three missions in 5th if you cannot claim objectives. You could lessen their number by one, bring two Synapse Zoanthropes, both dedicated to moving the Gaunts as need be. Once you get them there, you can use a fun little tactic to keep them there for a very long time. You put the gaunts around the objective you're wanting to hold, and have them go to the ground. I can't imagine anyone not putting an objective in terrain, so you already had a 4+ cover save. Add in going to the ground, you get a 3+. Then, move your Zoanthrope away from the Gaunts, causing them to Lurk. This gives them a 2+ cover save. A ring of Gaunts, all with a 2+ cover save is very, very difficult to uproot. Ask anyone who has tried to shoot Pathfinders out of their hiding spots. Things to beware of with this tactic: flamer templates, units within assault range, and Lurking broods cannot score. This means you take target priority on all flamers and assault specialists heading their direction. It also means you need to move your Zoanthrope to the Gaunts just before the game ends so you can claim that objective. Remember, lurking does not mean you don't have control, it means they cannot move but can shoot as normal. Instead of shooting, though, you'll be enjoying your cement hold on the objective while the rest of your army decimates the opponent.

You also need to keep those guardian Zoanthrope alive. You only have four synapse creatures, but if played smartly that's plenty. Keep that third Zoanthrope if you feel four is too few. While your gaunts are lurking with their 2+ save, your Zoanthrope should also be getting into cover and going to the ground for a 3+ cover save in addition to their 2+ armor. With your list, you shouldn't have too much trouble giving the opponent more dangerous targets than a Zoanthrope and Gaunts who are a pain to kill.

This tactic does mean that you don't get your Psychic Choir, but in all honesty that is a very gimicky tactic. It works great against armies people don't tend to play, and you'd slaughter anyways: Non-Skimmer Eldar, Tau, Dark Eldar, etc. Marines are basically fearless, Grey Knights are fearless, many Chaos Marines are fearless, Demon Princes are fearless, Orks have mob rule leadership so are fearless 90% of the time. Furthermore, Psychic Choir is used to force Sweeping Advances and prevent people from assaulting your Hive Tyrants due to their Horror ability. If you keep all of your assault units (Genestealers, flyrant) all near each other, then you're just asking for a barrage of templates. Very few people want to assault a Flyrant, anyways, so the Horror rarely comes into effect.

Lastly, your troop line is still way too small, even if you add two groups of nine. Nine gaunts fit under large blast templates very well. You need to up their numbers closer to 14-15 range. Same with the Genestealers: a single six-man squad won't accomplish much other than eat a blast template and be wiped off the board. I'd get these guys to at least eight, and preferably two groups of them. Drop the carapace to make room for the points. As I said before, just play smart and you can get 4+ cover saves fairly easily by having a gaunt screen, an enemy model screen, or using terrain appropriately. Remember, it's better to survive a round in cover than it is to fall short of assault range and be a sitting duck.

Too long, did not read:
-You really should have a Venom Cannon with Strength upgrade on your walking Tyrant, with only two Sniperfexes your list needs more long range firepower. Gun Tyrants aren't for assaulting, they're for shooting, and a Venom Cannon is far better than three more Devourer shots.
-The WS and Initiative upgrades will never, ever help your Carnifex in assault on the very rare chance they get assaulted. People will assault pretty much everything else in your army long before they'd run across the board to get to your Snipers.
-You need to boost your troop count. The models per squad is too low to survive long enough to score objectives for you.

Good lord, didn't mean to write that much. Anyhow, hope it helps. The best way to see all of what I said, though, is to playtest it. You don't need the models, my friends and I use shreds of paper for troops, calculators for tanks, solo cups for drop pods, whatever we have available to playtest our lists before we invest in the models.

 
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran




Wall of text hits you for ***UNSPEAKABLE* amounths of damage.

Other then that, NO. That list cant handle very very tough lists. There are a few threads around on nidz competative lists.
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






Thanks for the feedback!!! Really appreciate it.

The WS upgrade is not to hit better as much as be hit less! Everything wielding a fist or a dread CCW is at ws4 and I rather have them hit my tons of points at 4+ than 3+ I strongly believe that this army needs everyone to close in to be totally effective + I really like to shoot my way in and then hth the rest - none of my previous armies has worked that way.

Second tyrant to be modified.

Lets see how I get the pts for some more troops - and more importantly the stamina to convert more.



“Of the fabulous hydra it is said, cut off one head and two will grow in its place”

- antique proverb

LEGION of PLASTIC blog 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Army Lists
Go to: