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I've been having some fun with this list for a couple days now, thought I'd share and get some criticism/new ideas where appropriate.

HQ: 459
Flying Dev Tyrant: 196
-2x Twin-Linked Devourers
-Winged
-Toxin Sacs
-Enhanced Senses
-Warp Field

Broodlord: 263
-Feeder Tendrils
Retinue x9
-Acid Maw

Elite: 373
2x Lictors: 160

DevFex/Ninjafex: 113
-2x Twin-Linked Devourer/2x Scything Talons
-Enhanced Senses/Toxic Miasma, +1 WS

Troops: 382
10x Genestealer
-Feeder Tendrils

10x Genestealers
-Feeder Tendrils

9x Spinegaunts

9x Spinegaunts

Heavy: 336
Hybrid Dakka-stranglerfex: 123
-Twin-Linked Devourers
-Barbed Strangler
-Enhanced Senses

Hybrid Dakka-stranglerfex: 123
-Twin-Linked Devourers
-Barbed Strangler
-Enhanced Senses

2x Zoanthrope: 90
-Synapse Creature

Total: 1498
____________________________________________

I've found my DevFlyrant to be incredibly more useful for troop management than a talon-based one. Averaging 10 wounds from 18" away with 12" movement is nice to apply supplementary firepower where needed, like softening up a tough unit about to be assaulted.

The Broodlord is just plain fun. He tends to make his points back by obliterating a unit or three of marines, a couple tanks, or whatever else gets in his way. I did the mathhammer for scything talons vs. acid maw as an upgrade for his retinue, and against T4+ the acid maw upgrade pulled ahead significantly on the charge and equaled the talons after the charge. I really wish I could find one spare point to give him Flesh Hooks, maybe I'll drop two Gaunts, grab the Hooks, and put the other 8 points into something else somewhere. I need to find something that tells me if the Broodlord has Flesh Hooks, does that mean his Retinue does as well or not. I'm guessing this could be found where a Veteran Sergeant has grenades but his people don't?

Lictors are fun, great supplementary assault power, and incredible scare tactics. Bothersome tank hiding in terrain? How about deep striking a pair of S6 renders to fix that. Don't think your Genestealers will quite get the job done? Nothing a Lictor can't cure. Like the DevFlyrant, I use these mainly as a support unit alongside other forces. Their longevity in combat tends to work quite well, since my opponents have all been more afraid of the Broolord and want to hit it much more than they want to hit a Lictor.

Good ol' Devilfex. I'm at a tossup between this guy and a ninjafex (2x talons, +WS, Miasma). Every time I take a ninjafex, he never gets to actually destroy something. Well, except once, took out a Space Wolves venerable dreadnought HQ. But prior to that and since then, he's mostly been a fire magnet because people are terrified of him. This does make it easier to push/pull them into mistakes, though. Now, get him against a line of tanks and he'll make up his points in two swings. I think I'll just play this guy by ear depending on whoever I'm playing.

Feeder Tendrils are now too good not to take for only one point. These units have proven invaluable for removing marines from an objective I want, often in one turn, definitely during their turn if they manage to live. Acid Maw alone rolls slightly better than Feeder Tendrils alone, but you get more bodies in the group with Tendrils than you do Maw, and they're fairly often not near other Tendril-equipped creatures.

My Gaunts are just stationary objective holders, with a few nifty tricks. Namely, hiding away with a 2+ cover save thanks to Lurking and Going to Ground. Then either use a Zoanthrope to slingshot them towards an objective too far out in the open to sit on, or have the Zoanthrope float its way towards the Gaunts lurking on the objective when the end of the game rolls around. This also works with the Flyrant, obviously.

I haven't actually tried this oddball variant of carnifex just yet. Last couple of games I've used the traditional Cannon+Strangler. However, with only being able to glance (-2 on the new table... wow.), missing 50% of the time, and being AP4... I've found they just aren't cutting it. Next game I will try out the TL-Dev with the Strangler, relying on maybe a ninjafex or hordes of genestealers for my anti-tank power. I could go further and drop the TL-Devs for Scything Talons, letting these 'Fexes walk right up to tanks to knock them over while blasting away at infantry. I think the extra four wounds per shooting round will further help these Heavy Carnifex support my assault teams.

The two Zoanthrope are there to apply Synapse where needed, be it taking my Gaunts out of lurking, keep Carnifexes going the right way (1 out of 6 chance to fail that leadership, not always fun to take that risk) or keeping my Lictors from instant death via power fist. I have debated shaving off a few points (no idea where I could outside of two Spinegaunts just yet) to give these guys Catalyst for my Stealers assaulting into cover without Flesh Hooks. 24" range on Catalyst is fairly plentiful with two of them there.

Well, maybe with the slew of new Tyranid lists this will get a few more than zero replies? Shameless bump, I know.

I'll ask my question here instead of in my own thread

Is it worth cutting those stealer units up into three smaller ones?

Say perhaps three of 7 and 8 in the retinue? Does that screw with your math-hammer for tendrils.

Reason I ask is that its definately an advantage to be able to tie more units up in combat at once. Downside being more reserve rolls to fail, and more KPs to give away....

Adding or removing Genestealers doesn't affect math hammer so much as it affects the final output of said math hammering. For instance, a minimal squad of Tendril Stealers is six. 18 attacks on the charge, 15 hit after re-rolls, 7.5 wounds, 2.5 rend, 4.16 dead Marines. Throwing that against a squad of 10 Marines is putting your Genestealers in a much larger chance of death by returning assault than if you brought a squad of 10 Stealers.

I find 10 Genestealers on the charge is the perfect number to let enough Marines live through the initial charge to be tied up and die during their next turn. 10 Tendril Stealers, 30 attacks, 26.7 hit, 13.3 wound, 4.4 rend, 7.4 dead Marines and I have 10 wounds to soak up the 2.6 Marines worth of returning hits.

This allows me a certain amount of flexibility. If I want to completely remove a squad from an objective I wish to claim immediately, I swoop in with the Dakkaflyrant, pop off 10 wounds, kill a few, and let my Genestealers do the rest. This tactic is very discouraging to many players, seeing their precious investment and scoring unit wiped out without any effort or chance to fight back. It also makes them afraid of sending splinter forces out to claim objectives, thus bunching their army close together. As assault-heavy as both your and my list is, this is very good news since it both limits their firepower range and gives you a concentrated target. However, if I'm assaulting into a spot that it'd be much better for me not to be left shootable next round, say into a central grouping of gun squads, I can simply not whittle down their numbers with supporting fire from my own guns and just assault them, thus dropping their number of returning attacks to negligible levels and staying safe from firepower during their shooting phase.

A squad of 8 brings up 24 attacks, 21.3 hits, 10.7 wounds, 3.6 rends, 6 dead Marines. Honestly, not too much worse, but the 4 Marines left over next round will be harder to guarantee to be dead during their next assault phase, potentially trapping your Genestealers in that spot to kill them during your turn. That means they're a sitting target for shooting next round unless you assaulted into cover or you have something to either screen (Gaunts) or block line of sight (TMC).

Of course, these numbers aren't specifically accurate for your list which runs Acid Maw Stealers, relying on Lictors and the Broodlord to convey Tendrils. The Broodlord's retinue would be fine to lower in number a bit. Anything that succeeds in getting both Acid Maw and Tendrils will likely destroy anything in its way first turn. Let's take your 8-man retinue, for instance, getting both their natural Maw and Broodlord's Tendrils...

24 attacks, 21.3 hits, 16 wounds, 5.3 rend, 8.9 dead Marines, not including your Broodlord's attacks, so it'd be the same for any other 8-man maw/tendril stealers. 8.9 is a bit too close to 10 for me to feel safe about tactical choices of whether or not I would survive being vulnerable to guns if I 'accidently' wiped out the whole unit. Add one more Genestealer to this squad, though, and it wipes Marines off of an objective you want every time if it's getting both Tendrils and Acid Maw bonuses.

Of course, you can always run with 7 or 8 Stealers in the squad and still numerically set up a situation that you take very few returning hits during assault: just shoot the Marines first to kill off a few.

Another reason, 10 wounds in the squad mean I can survive more shots fired at me than I could otherwise. Losing two or three Genestealers before I get to assault won't cripple the unit like it would if it were smaller.

I've never really messed with scuttlers at all due to the point cost, but I might try it out next time I play a game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to announce that you have outflanking units? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of bringing them in from the sides since your opponent would just center themselves on the board?

Hmmm good points on the maths, I think I'll have to try both options, I am concerned that by re-rolling hits AND wounds I'm going to be wiping stuff out in a turn with 10 'stealers.

i'm not certain about when you must declare outflanking You get the option of the 6" scout move or the outflank. When must you declare what you are holding in reserve? not got my rule book at work, but then you are essentially controlling your oponents deployment, by squeezing them in the middle. That suits me fine as it gives them less places to run from dakka / ninja fex and the flyrant!

Kirbinator wrote:
I find 10 Genestealers on the charge is the perfect number to let enough Marines live through the initial charge to be tied up and die during their next turn. 10 Tendril Stealers, 30 attacks, 26.7 hit, 13.3 wound, 4.4 rend, 7.4 dead Marines and I have 10 wounds to soak up the 2.6 Marines worth of returning hits.

It seems to me that 7/10 dead marines is either going to leave them running the majority of the time or have them killed from wounds for being fearless. I think the probability of four marines killing a genestealer in close combat is lower than the probability that they run (or all die) when seven of them die in assault.

Yep, Spif got me there, pretty much forgot about how 5th now makes leadership modifiers all crazy. However, I'll still be bringing ten-man squads. People can get pretty scared of these guys and go a little overkill on shooting them so I like the added survivability of the squad.

Guess thanks to the new leadership mods, this one goes to personal preference.

how do you like the lictors

kaiservonhugal wrote:
how do you like the lictors

I like them very much. I've considered dropping them and bouncing points around, but I feel that would change the nature of this particular list. I feel this list works best with the whole army working together, as few units trying to accomplish their tasks on their own as possible. With the Lictors, that means Deep Striking into a spot just before another squad of Genestealers or the Broodlord and company start their assault.

I'm a big fan of overkill most of the time since it scares people into mistakes and it teaches bad players just how frail their units can be. Between an overload of mobile Devourers, more Genestealers than most people care to deal with, and deep striking Lictors, people are concerned with every unit on the field and often make mistakes in where to direct their fire. Even when they choose to shoot the right thing, there is often another unit nearby that can accomplish the same goal. I feel this level of synergy is what makes this list viable.

Another answer for you is part of the question, I just plain like them. They have fun abilities, great 'nid fluff, etc. They really aren't worth their price if I were trying to powergame since they're T4 W2 5+ save, but this list is for both fun and effectiveness in equal parts. People also get fairly confused with the Lictors in target priority. If they swing at the Lictors, they aren't doing anything against the wall of Genestealers attacking, and vice-versa. Actually, now that I look at it, 160 points for 8 rending re-rolling attacks with +2 to cover saves, four wounds (though half your attacks are gone after the first two are dealt), S6 WS6 I6 with Flesh Hooks... they really aren't bad even in a powergaming setting. I think it'd be pretty situational if an elite 'fex and the extra 47 points would be better put elsewhere.

In either case, Lictors, when run in pairs, are a very solid unit choice that are best used as supporting assault units, pushing the kill-rate of whatever squad the join through the roof, especially if the unit they join is one of Acid Maw Genestealers. That's a very nasty combination that would likely outweigh the elite 'fex potential.

If I were to powergame a 1500 point list, though, it would either have Acid Maw Genestealers to run with the Lictors or no Lictors at all, replacing them with an elite 'fex and putting the 47 points into something else... probably a walking Tyrant instead of a Broodlord and retinue.