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I was planning to play Goatboy that night, but we got matched up in the GT. Very cool.

His army included:

Epidemius.
4 squads of 10 plaguebearers (I think).
GUO. Breath as well.
2 DP of Nurgle w/2+ to wound. Breath as well.
1 DP of Nurgle w/2+ to wound and flight. Breath as well.

My setup:



His army waiting to be Epidimius tallied up.



Just another shot of my first turn, I moved up a bit.



So things went very very wrong. He placed away from me about 22".

He then scattered EVERYTHING towards me like 9-12". Yes, really.



I put 4 wounds on his GUO, and killed a DP with my anti-deep strike fire.

I also hurt his other Demon prince.



I moved up and waxed that last hurt DP with shooting:



In the end, he ran his bearers into the corner and held his objective.

They were too far away for me to do anything really.



His flying DP I could have shot dead, but I promised if I dropped him to a single wound I'd charge him with my GK.

Only one unit shot at him, but I dropped him to 1 wound with them. So in the GK went, and down they went.

So besides me shooting him to pieces and his single DP running wild...

He had 16 4+ rolls to save his GUO OR do wounds with his breath attacks.

Not a single 4+ came up.

My casualties could have been zero, but I went the fun way instead.



So the GK took it in the shorts from the DP before he got punked finally by the last GK.

Another win on VP's.

Ouch. Sounds like bad luck on scatter dice. Well, that's daemons for you, but it would have been interesting to see how they would have done had scatters not been so bad.

They'd have been shot to pieces from 24" away.

No flying = dead DP's.

Do you feel that the game loses its meaning when neither the army, tactics, or ability can make up for great/horrible luck?

Yep.

We had a nice time chatting, and Goatboy is a nice guy so it all worked out but I'd hate bringing Demons to a GT.

A RTT, sure.

A GT? This one, maybe.

After this? No bloody way.

Randomly losing or autolosing for sooo many reasons is just not my cup of tea.

I'd play it if I could just setup the army on the field, but you can't so...

Good gosh, thats an insane amount of fire power if you dropped him and barely took any casualties.

Extrenm(54): Mystics, versus a deep striking army. This happens, often.

It was the way of the game. And like I said, I would play again, hopefully I won't shoot towards you the next time and your gravitational null field hahaha. Either way it was a lot of fun and I would play you again.

I felt so dirty for bringing a gun to a knife fight.

It would have been more fun if my GKT didn't suck at killing Demons. lol

Not really critical of your report, more just a note of all your battles...

While you took a "DH" list, with allied Guard and Sisters it appears as more of an "Imperium" list, using some of the best units from 3 different army books(mystics and sisters, etc). Hardly a claim that you won with a "DH" list. I also agree with other posters in your painting post that the paint job just does not look right, to put it lightly, but I guess that is your 'art' as you said...

On a side note, how many lascannons did you have in this army, 4? It appears that if anyone took 2-3 hellhounds or (hah) even the new whirlwinds with ignore cover you would have suffered massive casualties, even without bunching up.

It also appears that through all these reports you really did not face anyone with a really competitive army (as you stated previously) or that much variety (2 blood angels?), or, lets be honest, really that much skill. How would you have done against a 3 LR, 3 Hellhound guard army? Besides running meltas and your 4 lascannons, seems like you would have had a hard time.

I guess it is more of a comment about the LVGT and the newness of 5th edition overall where it doesnt appear (as you stated) that there was really any competition, just people who wanted to play a game.

No Raon, we noticed that most people that came to the GT had 4th Ed lists, that they learned how to play 5th with.

It was a hard lesson for a lot of people.

I agree with you on most of your points (minus my 'art' being a fail or not).

If the WH list had what I wanted in it for the army, it'd have been a WH army but I can't take mystics and 2 GKT units, and besides Blackmoor wanted me to run something most people would consider 'non-competitive' and see how I did.

Truth is, there were very few (like...3?) very competitive armies. Brian did try but there were 20" between him and my lines outside of his DA range and outside of cover. Not a very good place for his army. If it had been another deployment I'd have been getting shot up PDQ.

Which was good for the tournament really, I had a much better time because the was down to such a low level.

I'd have lost against pretty much any of my other armies. They can outrange, outmaneuver, and/or outshoot me. The DH army is a fluff army first, tweaked to be as effective as it can be but it really has huge holes in it all over the place.

The army is essentially unable to crush anyone without the perfect storm (game 5) but able to win nonetheless if I run it right.

Don't get me wrong. I was worried every single game and could not really afford to make even a single mistake. Even game 5, if the Khorne player had made really good saves he'd have chopped up half my army and that would have been "very bad".

stjohn70 wrote:No Raon, we noticed that most people that came to the GT had 4th Ed lists, that they learned how to play 5th with.

It was a hard lesson for a lot of people.

Plus there was this guy who brought a Immolator army, just to drive the point home.

Man, that guy.

On a side note, how many lascannons did you have in this army, 4? It appears that if anyone took 2-3 hellhounds or (hah) even the new whirlwinds with ignore cover you would have suffered massive casualties, even without bunching up.

True, but in any tournament you have favorable and unfavorable match ups. I think to take a top seed 1-3 often you have at least some favorable match ups to move up the brackets. Making a blanket statement that it was the competition only goes as far as the first two rounds because as you continue to win the competition gets better. Instead of denegrating just congratulate the man/men for doing as good as they did.

After reading what he had in his list I was saying to myself, anybody play magic? Not to be critical but wow this guy was up a creek with out a padel? Well thanks for the report Stelek.

If I didn't scatter 10 to 11 inches towards him, I would have been in a much better situation. Beyond the fact that any flamer template that hit, didn't cause a single wound either. When you are faced with such a crappy batch of rolling, well you can't just help but not win. Pretty much, if I could roll crappy, I did in this game. My army always has saves, so you would think, it would have some sort of a chance, but when you can't roll for crap, it doesn't help.

But yes, I didn't bring the most competitive army because I was looking to just have fun. Most of the lists I saw, were not all that great. This was the only "bad" game from the tournament, with almost everything coming down to the fact that the turn length was random and thus keeping me from taking an objective in a game that I would have otherwise won. Anything with Kill points was just a wash for me, as I really had 5 that were almost unkillable (Epidemius and 4 Plague Bearer squads). The biggest issue with Daemons, is that you can just roll crappy and it sucks for you.

I think any army suffers when you roll keep rolling crappy.

Goatboy how do you think deamon armies will fare in the future against other lists tailored for 5e?

G

well on a sidenote i applaud goatboys pro nurgle painting

well on a sidenote i applaud goatboys pro nurgle painting

nice report short and sweet, for the painting on your army what did you want them to look like?

Um, personally, they are not a top tier army no matter what anyone says. Any army that relies on too many rolls to be competitive will just roll up and die in some games. There is just too much that depends on a roll of a d6 to be competitive. Also, you just fall in and have to wait for lots of shooting coming in. You can get lucky and survive, but it is still just too much to depend on. And we all know, rolling dice can just not roll to your favor. For every game you just destroy your opponent, you will have a game where you just can't roll well for the life of you. As is obvious in this game haha. But I will say one thing, the army is a lot of fun to play.

GoatboyBBMA wrote:Um, personally, they are not a top tier army no matter what anyone says. Any army that relies on too many rolls to be competitive will just roll up and die in some games. There is just too much that depends on a roll of a d6 to be competitive. Also, you just fall in and have to wait for lots of shooting coming in. You can get lucky and survive, but it is still just too much to depend on. And we all know, rolling dice can just not roll to your favor. For every game you just destroy your opponent, you will have a game where you just can't roll well for the life of you. As is obvious in this game haha. But I will say one thing, the army is a lot of fun to play.

Can't the same be said of any army? It is a game with dice, so if the rolls are just horrible, you will lose no matter what. Especially in 40k. An argument could be made that in fantasy you might have horrible dice rolls and still pull it out with how their combat resolution is figured, but 40k is different.

That said, daemons aren't a point and click army. Generalship comes in quite a bit when things don't go your way. I think that there are some top tier armies in that book, just most of the top tier players are turned off by the randomness.

No kidding about the dice rolls a double one on a difficult terrain assault roll cost me first place at my local FLGS Ardboyz.

I'd say demons are the ultimate in point and click armies, actually.

Little to no shooting.

Randomly dropping part of your army (which itself is randomly chosen).

Randomly scattering your army around the table.

Charging into close combat and hoping for the win.

Classic point and click.

Either you win or you lose, often with little more than point and click being your options.

I think the point that Goatboy made is that Daemons have another slab of unreliability to deal with, along with the usual random factors of a dice based game. I'm sure many armies will have a much more concrete expectations of a game performance due to their (potentially more sympathetic?) rules mechanics.

Heh, anyone who plays that way deserves to, and probably will, lose. If that is what you are seeing in your area that is likely why you have a low opinion of daemons.

I will concede the fact that deepstriking the first wave in can be tricky, but there are ways through maneuver and play that it can be overcome.

Anyway, I will just agree to disagree on this.

It's a close combat fantasy army in a shooty 40k world.

Accept it's a fun army, and move on.

Like...everyone else.

Sure, you admit that you are not always right and I will admit that the army I play is a fun one. :-)

I'm not always right.

Big deal.

My army is fun to play. I can honestly say that is the first time I have ever seen you say that or even insinuate it. Well done.