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So Im really liking the drop pod modeling thread, and I was wondering how should one build and play that model?

I was thinking of gluing mine closed and some one said, that might be an unfair advantage as it would block LOS as solid. I didn't consider that an issue, I usually just model my play pieces for durability hence no working doors, then I started thinking about all the pod implications with modeling:

Anyway, if you open the doors (and leave them down) wouldnt a drop pod have a ridiculous footprint for 1 inch away or stopping other vehicles movement?

Do you think it would be fair to use pods with doors glued shut?

Would/could you charge a drop pod's open door to attack it in melee, or does one have to reach the hull?

Could you combat squad out, then open the doors, then deploy in 2 inches of the tip of the open door on both sides potentially the width of the open drop pod +4 inches distant?

If you had to be within 2 inches of the hull on deployment, could you put models on the ramp part of the door?

If you closed the doors could you set a model in what would have been the footrpint of the open door?

???

well as soon as the drop pod hits the ground the doors open and they jump out after this happends the pod doors CANT be shut, i think thats what it says in the rules other then that im not really sure.

i wouldnt build it with the doors glued shut.

I would.

Does it say that? (Other than fluff)

Opening and closing Pod doors are going to wear out...

Augustus wrote:Anyway, if you open the doors (and leave them down) wouldnt a drop pod have a ridiculous footprint for 1 inch away or stopping other vehicles movement?

No. All measurement is to the vehicle's hull. (page 3 and 56) The doors would be ignored... they're just superfluous detail.

Do you think it would be fair to use pods with doors glued shut?

I don't think it would make a particularly noticable difference to the game.

Would/could you charge a drop pod's open door to attack it in melee, or does one have to reach the hull?

Hull. All measurement (with the sole exception of measuring weapons range from the vehicle, which is measured from the weapon barrel) is to the vehicle's hull.

Could you combat squad out, then open the doors, then deploy in 2 inches of the tip of the open door on both sides potentially the width of the open drop pod +4 inches distant?

No. As above.

If you had to be within 2 inches of the hull on deployment, could you put models on the ramp part of the door?

Yes. The doors are ignored for all measurement. Since you can't measure to them, so far as the rules are concerned, models standing on them are not actually touching the vehicle, so bypass the normal restriction on standing on other models.

If you closed the doors could you set a model in what would have been the footrpint of the open door?

Yes. You might have issues drawing LOS from the Pod's weapon, though.

They won't wear out if you use brass pins and ferrules/bushings.

You should probably only deploy within 2" of the hull.

Ahh I see, thanks guys!

I am really looking forward to those.

I suppose I am going to have to do the interiors, and get some brass mountings too yikes! Well it will be fun!

Maybe I will do a modeling thread on that!

Concise insaniak, thanks.

insaniak wrote:Yes. The doors are ignored for all measurement. Since you can't measure to them, so far as the rules are concerned, models standing on them are not actually touching the vehicle, so bypass the normal restriction on standing on other models.

Hrm.

Care to back up the argument that you can stand on Drop Pod petals? On reading the rules somewhat thoroughly after seeing the new models, I came up with all models -- friendly or enemy -- counting as impassable terrain, so no one can stand on them (beyond, say, jet bikes).

I'd certainly rather play that way (even if I'm going to be buying some Pods for my Salamanders soon...), but I'm not getting that from the rules.

I'd say that as the doors are not considered part of the model (as all measurements etc are from the hull), and the rather large space taken up by the open doors, that any model (friend or foe) should be able to walk on them. (Note: How do the guys inside get out, if they are not allowed to walk along the door/ramps?)

Not having a DP model to hand, I'm not sure how high the open doors are, so how it will affect TLOS to/from said models.

Do the open doors block TLOS, or provide cover, or are they ignored?

I'm planing on converting mine. Split the door in half at the natural seem horizontally. Now the lower part opens down (as normal) and the top part will hing upward.

This will do two things. First and most importantly look cool, second unless GW comes out with a specific statement, it will remove any question on how to deal with the petals as they will be not in the way.

Anyway. If the petals are infact part of the pod, and it is ruled by GW in a FAQ when the codex is actually released it will cause a bunch of problems. Neither friendly or enemy models may stand on the petals. Just like you can't disembark ontop of your rhino. Its obvious that the access is not the petals itself but the five giant holes in the pod. Thus you will have to fit 10 marines within 2" of the five pod holes, and not ontop of the petals. If the pod petals are more than 2" across you will have a difficult time deploying 10 models and maintain unit coherency. There just isn't enough room between the petals.

Cool model, hell of a rules issue. The best, simplest, and cleanest bet would be that the petals are ignored for everything.

If the petals are ignored for everything, is the easiest solution to leave them off?

I've always had this image of the pod doors literally blowing off the pod and careening through, and causing significant carnage to, the assembled masses of orks, nids, and other gribblies waiting to eat the heroic marinez (hurr) in the emperor's service. Hence, no petals.

Lowinor wrote:Care to back up the argument that you can stand on Drop Pod petals?

Because when you go to determine whether or not the models are standing on the pod (ie: measuring the distance between the models and the pod) you measure to the hull. So they're not standing on the pod unless they're standing on the hull...

Same as the rhino and the land raider. You don't have to make them hinged; it is perfectly acceptable to glue them shut. The true LOS will not likely make that big of a difference - in either case, the unit behind will likely get a 4+ cover save.

Here's a slightly different take on the question. Can a marine player open/close the doors as he sees fit to utilize TLOS-blocking or non-TLOS blocking utility when the model is deployed? For example, dropping in a Marine squad, putting them behind the pod, opening the doors so that they have LOS and cover from anything in front. Simultaneously dropping in a Dreadnought, putting him in front of the pod, leaving the doors closed to block LOS and shots to rear armor.

Creative use of modeling or cheesetastic abuse?

the hull of the pod opens and the space marines get out.
the assualt ramps are the hull.

skkipper wrote:the hull of the pod opens and the space marines get out.
the assualt ramps are the hull.

I respectfully disagree. I can open the rear door of my Devilfish and front ramp of my landraider. Never have I seen anyone measure the 2" from the base of the ramp, you would get an extra 1 1/2 - 2" of deployment space. Besides, if that was the case, someone might put a 12" ramp on the front of their landraider and gain a huge assault advantage. The hull has always been the main bulk of the main body of the vehicle.

the ramps are the main bulk of the pod

sourclams wrote:Here's a slightly different take on the question. Can a marine player open/close the doors as he sees fit to utilize TLOS-blocking or non-TLOS blocking utility when the model is deployed?

The only situation in which the rules allow you to modify a model mid-game is when rotating vehicle weapons to point at their target.

skkipper wrote:the ramps are the main bulk of the pod

Only when they're closed. When they're open, they're superfluous detail.

skkipper wrote:the ramps are the main bulk of the pod

Maybe I should have said the bulk of main vertical edge. In which case once deployed the ramps are no longer it.

I don't think it matters as long as both players decide before the game, and are consistent throughout... they way we decided at my FLGS is to deploy with the doors up, let the doors flop down(while protecting anybody's paintjob) and if models would be hit by a falling door, they get shifted out of the way like with tank shock, or end up on the ramps after they've fallen, and from that point on the doors are just scenery, while you deploy 2" from the "interior base".

Deathmachine wrote:well as soon as the drop pod hits the ground the doors open and they jump out after this happens the pod doors CANT be shut.

That is not what the rules say.

Just noticed this bit on the drop pod page p69.

Once deployed the Drop Pod is no longer a sealed environment and is therefore counted as being open-topped.

Pretty clear that the petals do not close and seal the pod up again. Once opened they stay opened.

cadbren wrote:Just noticed this bit on the drop pod page p69.

Once deployed the Drop Pod is no longer a sealed environment and is therefore counted as being open-topped.

Pretty clear that the petals do not close and seal the pod up again. Once opened they stay opened.

Doors can close without becoming airtight (which is what sealed means). The doors on your house right now are closed but not sealed.

Doctor Thunder wrote:

Deathmachine wrote:well as soon as the drop pod hits the ground the doors open and they jump out after this happens the pod doors CANT be shut.

That is not what the rules say.

great could you point out what the rules say?

Doctor Thunder wrote:

cadbren wrote:Just noticed this bit on the drop pod page p69.

Once deployed the Drop Pod is no longer a sealed environment and is therefore counted as being open-topped.

Pretty clear that the petals do not close and seal the pod up again. Once opened they stay opened.

Doors can close without becoming airtight (which is what sealed means). The doors on your house right now are closed but not sealed.

So all homes are open-topped?

Plus one cannot bring in a real world situation to argue a point in a beer and peanuts, push little metal/plastic army men around, board game. It just doesn't work.

insaniak wrote:

Lowinor wrote:Care to back up the argument that you can stand on Drop Pod petals?

Because when you go to determine whether or not the models are standing on the pod (ie: measuring the distance between the models and the pod) you measure to the hull. So they're not standing on the pod unless they're standing on the hull...

That doesn't follow.

The rules for measuring distance don't, as far as I can tell, define that the model occupies only the space of its hull, but that you use the hull for measuring distance to the model. The movement rules (specifically, that friendly and enemy models count as impassable terrain) don't discuss distance to the model, but the model itself; the two are separate concepts.

I think you need to declare open or closed when they land and stick with it. He's right, you cant change that once the model has been on the table. It would be crazy cheese to be able to open and close them continuously as the situation dictated.



Clay

Lowinor wrote: The movement rules (specifically, that friendly and enemy models count as impassable terrain) don't discuss distance to the model, but the model itself; the two are separate concepts.

They're really not. Because in order to determine whether or not one model is standing on the other, you need to determine that there is 0 distance between them. Whether or not you do that in practice simply by looking at it and saying 'Yeah, he's standing on the door' it's technically requiring a measurement of the distance between the two models.

And for all measurement involving the pod, with the sole exception of the pod's weapon range, you use the hull.


I'm fully aware that this argument sounds like a bit of a stretch. But it's a bit of a stretch that actually allows the pod to function. The alternative is a vehicle that will in a lot of games never make it onto the table due to not having enough room to deploy, and will the rest of the time block an inordinate amount of real estate, be almost impossible to deploy from and almost impossible to assault.

Maxus wrote:

Doctor Thunder wrote:

cadbren wrote:Just noticed this bit on the drop pod page p69.

Once deployed the Drop Pod is no longer a sealed environment and is therefore counted as being open-topped.

Pretty clear that the petals do not close and seal the pod up again. Once opened they stay opened.

Doors can close without becoming airtight (which is what sealed means). The doors on your house right now are closed but not sealed.

So all homes are open-topped?

Plus one cannot bring in a real world situation to argue a point in a beer and peanuts, push little metal/plastic army men around, board game. It just doesn't work.

But it's okay for you to take a fluff explanation for a rule and treat it as if it were a rule? Sounds like a double standard.

The rule is "Counts as being open topped." The rest of what you quoted is the fluff reason for the rule.

You argued fluff, so I countered that fluff. Now you are backpedaling and trying to argue rules. The problem is, your rules argument is even weaker then your fluff argument. We have no rules in 40K for when a player may or may not open doors and ramps on tanks, in fact the rules have always allowed for people to glue the doors and hatches shut with no game effect.

Now, if you want to overturn all that, your going to have to come up with a much better argument then what you have so far.

Doctor Thunder wrote:

cadbren wrote:Just noticed this bit on the drop pod page p69.

Once deployed the Drop Pod is no longer a sealed environment and is therefore counted as being open-topped.

Pretty clear that the petals do not close and seal the pod up again. Once opened they stay opened.

Doors can close without becoming airtight (which is what sealed means). The doors on your house right now are closed but not sealed.

No, that's what airtight means. Sealed originally refered to something being closed and a wax seal added to prove that it hadn't been opened during transport or storage. I can seal an envelope without making it airtight.