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An Ork unit with the Mob Rules tests its leadership based on the number of models it has? So if 20 models and it suffers 2 deaths, its Leadership is at "18", meaning it cannot fail?

Does this confer the effects of Fearless on the unit? Or do they simply pass all morale checks they have to make until the hit 11 models?

General Hobbs wrote:An Ork unit with the Mob Rules tests its leadership based on the number of models it has? So if 20 models and it suffers 2 deaths, its Leadership is at "18", meaning it cannot fail?

They'll only ever have a maximum of Ld 10, as the rulebook states (page 6) that stats can never be modified above 10.

Does this confer the effects of Fearless on the unit?

Mob Rule grants them Fearless if the mob is 11 or more models.

So, a Mob of 20 orks within the soulless area of a group of pariahs would have Ld 7, and be fearless?

Yes.

Wait wouldn't the mob rule take precedence? The orks use the mob size in place of their leadership, and the pariahs don't reduce that to seven.
Then again, I don't own a necron codex, so I don't know how soulless is worded.

Orkeosaurus wrote:Wait wouldn't the mob rule take precedence?

No.

The Orks have Ld 10 due to Mob Rule.
The Pariahs cause any unit with Ld higher than 7 to have Ld 7.
Since the Orks have Ld10, and 10>7 then the Orks' Ld is reduced to 7.

They'd be leadership 7, and fearless.

If they got down to 10 models, they'd have to test on LD of 7, or use their mob size of 10. Since 10 is better than 7, most, (but probably not all), would use mob size.

No. They can replace their Ld with their mob size. But then the Pariah would make it 7.

All i know is that they are fearless if over 11 and with over 11 boyz, you can smash those pariahs

mikhaila wrote:They'd be leadership 7, and fearless.

If they got down to 10 models, they'd have to test on LD of 7, or use their mob size of 10. Since 10 is better than 7, most, (but probably not all), would use mob size.

You've let a bit of 3rd ed rules creep in there. Testing against mob size doesn't happen anymore - it's all about replacing Ld with the number of models.

Vandez wrote:it's all about replacing Ld with the number of models.

Specifically, it's about replacing their normal Ld with the number of models, which is why the Pariah's rule brings it down to 7.

I don't see how you get down to 7.

Replace leadership with number of models = 20.

Reduce due to pariah = 17.

Capped at 10 = 10.

Of course they were fearless anyway.

Boss Ardnutz wrote:Replace leadership with number of models = 20.

Which becomes 10, because the stat can never go above 10.

Boss Ardnutz wrote:Reduce due to pariah = 17.

Pariahs reduce it to 7, not drop it by 3.

In that case I agree

Boss Ardnutz wrote:Of course they were fearless anyway.

Agreed, most of the time they'll be fearless and it won't matter a yota.
But following situations remain interesting to contemplate:
- units of 8,9 or 10 orks
- a weirdboy parked in a mob

Vandez wrote:

mikhaila wrote:They'd be leadership 7, and fearless.

If they got down to 10 models, they'd have to test on LD of 7, or use their mob size of 10. Since 10 is better than 7, most, (but probably not all), would use mob size.

You've let a bit of 3rd ed rules creep in there. Testing against mob size doesn't happen anymore - it's all about replacing Ld with the number of models.

Nah, he´s right there.

Codex clearly words:

"Ork Mobz are allowed to use the squad size instead of their default Ld. Not a single word about "you have to". So you can use the mob rule or the default morale value of 7.
Above 10 it doesnt matter at all, as some stated or well, usually wont matter usually.

8-9-10 Boyz simply means: 8-9-10 morale or 7 if you like. Same for wierdboyz. Morale will allways be 7+ without some pesky modifications from your opponent.
Orkz cant get below 7 by their own rulz.
Less than 8units = use the default LD of 7. Easy as that. I dont know where people read about the mob rule but I have english and german codex and both word the rule same. "You are allowed to use mob rule" but not "you have to use mobrule."

DaDok, you must have missed part of this thread, the discussion about leadership 7 was in relation to pariah's who have an aura that reduces nearby units leadership to 7, Mikhaila was suggesting that a 10 strong unit wouldn't test at leadership 7 because they could test against mob size, which is a reference to the older mob rules, where orks literally tested 2d6 against mob size and no modifiers could be applied.

The new rules however just substitute mob size in place of leadership and this can then be modified by normal leadership modifiers, which means around pariahs orks can't have a leadership higher than 7 regardless of the number of models although they could still be fearless.

An interesting piece of trivia, the Pariah's ability to make other units leadership 7 is specifically considered to be a modifier in the rules for Witch Hunter zealots (it makes the zealots leadership higher, due to their "Fuelled by Pain" ability. I found this strange).

Orkeosaurus, The zealot rules clearly say that pariahs work as normal on zealots, it's just that they are applied before other modifiers so it reduces them to 7 and then any negatives they get apply bonuses on top of that.

Drunkspleen wrote:DaDok, you must have missed part of this thread, the discussion about leadership 7 was in relation to pariah's who have an aura that reduces nearby units leadership to 7, Mikhaila was suggesting that a 10 strong unit wouldn't test at leadership 7 because they could test against mob size, which is a reference to the older mob rules, where orks literally tested 2d6 against mob size and no modifiers could be applied.

The new rules however just substitute mob size in place of leadership and this can then be modified by normal leadership modifiers, which means around pariahs orks can't have a leadership higher than 7 regardless of the number of models although they could still be fearless.

My bad

But who uses Pariahs anyway? They are frickin expensive for what they can do but because I´m no NecExpert I´ll be a bit cautious on that.

Nifty trick to pull: say a unit of 5 bikers is shot up before being assaulted, and loses 2 Orks... since getting assaulted is NOT what they want (they'd much rather do the assaulting, after a nice salvo of twin-linked dakka), they test not on the Ld of 7 they're entitled to, but the mob strength of 3. They leg it, recover in the next phase (assuming you didn't roll crappily for distance or regroup) and lay down the dakka along with anything else in range on the now-stranded assault unit. Risky, but worth it IMO.

Can I not see the problem here?

The Ork " Mob rule" says: Units of 11 or more orks are treated as being fearless.

This has absolutly nothing to do with Ld.... as long as they're 11 strong or more...

Nobody is debating the fearless. But not all leadership tests are morale tests, so not all leadership tests are automatically passed by fearless. The pariahs aura, should the unit of 30 boyz be affected, would cause leadership tests that couldn't be passed by being fearless to roll against a 7, regardless of mob rule. If the pariahs shoot the mob and kill 10 of them, you don't have to make your morale test, because your fearless. But throw in the Deceiver using deceive at that mob, they do have to test now, and they don't get to autopass being fearless. So with the Pariahs Soulless aura, you'd be rolling against a 7, not a 10. If the mob of boyz with the hidden powerfist wants to assault a C'tan, they have to roll a leadership test, not a morale test.

On a related note, would Dread work on the orks in the case of mob rule, it's a leadership test, not a morale. But it does say it does not work on fearless models. I stress models, because ork models aren't fearless, even though the unit is granted the fearless special rule if over 11 models in it. Might be splitting hairs a bit, but then, it wouldn't be the first one to do so on these boards.

Squig_herder wrote:All i know is that they are fearless if over 11 and with over 11 boyz, you can smash those pariahs

and then some lol. orks LOVE to smash stuff. specially when they leave prity lil shoiny tings on the ground